Buchbinder/Harnoncourt Mozart Concerti

[Bob Harper]

Has anyone heard the new disc of #s 23 & 25 on Sony? I've listened to
the samples (on Presto), and there's precious little of the piano. what
there is seems to have Buchbinder's considerable virtues, but it's hard
to say more. It sounds like he's playing a fortepiano, an instrument to
which I am normally allergic, but from what I can hear he makes it
tolerable even for grumps like me. The orchestra sounds interesting, and
possibly much more. Comments appreciated.

Bob Harper

[Mark S]

I'm with you when it comes to the fortepiano.

Call me Grumpy!

I like Buchbinder a lot. Hearing him wasting his art on the fortepiano
would probably piss me off.

[William Sommerwerck]

I'd very much like to hear Mozart on the fortepiano. LOVE the sound -- it's
agreeably "wooden" and "klunky". Pretty much the opposite of a Steinway or
Baldwin.

[wkasimer]

On Jan 21, 12:21 pm, "William Sommerwerck"

I actually prefer to hear Mozart on fortepiano. Bezuidenhout's
ongoing series of the solo music is fantastic.

Bill

[Gerard]

wkasimer <wkas...@comcast.net> typed:

What do you think of his recording(s) of piano concerti by Mozart?

[wkasimer]

On Jan 21, 12:47 pm, "Gerard" <ghendriks_nospam...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > I actually prefer to hear Mozart on fortepiano.  Bezuidenhout's
> > ongoing series of the solo music is fantastic.
>
> What do you think of his recording(s) of piano concerti by Mozart?

I think that there's only been a single commercial disc, although I've
heard some broadcasts. They're excellent, but Bezuidenhout seems a
lot tamer (and thus to me, less interesting) when playing with others
than he does playing with....er...playing solo.

Bill

[John Thomas]

On Jan 21, 7:12 am, Bob Harper <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote:

It certainly sound like plucked strings. There's no mention on his
web page of the instrument he used. But sound samples are not
necessarily reliable.

[John Thomas]

Actually Buchbinder has recorded all the Mozart concertos. Check
Amazon to see some of the individual discs shown there.

[Thornhill]

It's definitely a fortepiano.

http://www.christinajensenpr.com/rudolfs-press-releases/2013/2/14/feb-14-16-pianist-rudolf-buchbinder-performs-with-the-new-yo.html

He's uses a copy of a 1792 Anton Walter by Paul McNulty -- which is
pretty typical for Mozart fp performances. Copies of Walter's 1795
model are also popular for Mozart (I don't have a clue what the
differences are).

[wkasimer]

I think that those are an older set, on a modern piano, with
Buchbinder conducting from the keyboard. As far as I know, he's only
recorded 23 and 25 on a fortepiano, with Harnoncourt.

And in any event, I was talking about Bezuidenhout, not Buchbinder....

Bill

[wil...@babel.nl]

Op maandag 21 januari 2013 21:42:04 UTC+1 schreef wkasimer het volgende:

Bezuidenhout is indeed a genius on the fortepiano. Not so sure whether people who are not fans of this instrument still dislike it after having heard Bezuidenhout....

TH

[Thornhill]

Fortepianos do not pluck strings; they use hammers.

[MiNe 109]

In article
<55443107-6968-4318...@b11g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,

Fortepianos of that era were practically one-of-a-kind, variations on a
theme rather than the uniformity we've come to expect from piano
factories. One discussion of differences mentions extra ribs, presence
or absence of glue, bridge slits instead of backpinning, etc, that
doesn't mean much to me unfortunately.

My usenet nick is a variation of the catalog number for a Walther
original: MINe 109. (Sorry, google searchers!) I performed on a McNulty
copy several times.

Stephen

[MiNe 109]

In article
<2eb61ff2-572f-459c...@pp8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,

One could argue (actually, I am arguing) that Buchbinder's seeming
preference for sharp attacks and rapid decay is ideal for fortepiano. Or
to put it another way, what I like about Buchbinder has a lot in common
with what I like about the best fortepiano performances.

I just listened to the short samples on presto: much to offer to those
who felt a lack of security in the pioneering Bilson recordings.

Stephen

[Norman Schwartz]

Googling:

http://www.hogwood.org/instruments/index.html?instrument_category_id=5

"Maker
Derek Adlam
Manufactured
Tan Gallops, Welbeck, 1987
Description
Copy of Viennese-action piano by Anton Walter, Vienna, c1795, in
yew-veneered casework raised on five tapered legs.
Specification
Strung in brass FF-F then iron throughout; bichord up to a1, trichord b1-g3.
Knee-levers operating moderator and dampers.
Pitch
A=430
Compass
FF-g3
References
Original in Germanisches Nationalmuseum, Nürnburg, No. MINe 109 (Clinkscale:
Walter No. 9)."

> Stephen

[Bob Harper]

On 1/21/13 3:21 PM, MiNe 109 wrote:
> In article
> <2eb61ff2-572f-459c...@pp8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,
> Mark S<markst...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jan 21, 7:12 am, Bob Harper<bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote:

>>> Has anyone heard the new disc of #s 23& 25 on Sony? I've listened to

>>> the samples (on Presto), and there's precious little of the piano. what
>>> there is seems to have Buchbinder's considerable virtues, but it's hard
>>> to say more. It sounds like he's playing a fortepiano, an instrument to
>>> which I am normally allergic, but from what I can hear he makes it
>>> tolerable even for grumps like me. The orchestra sounds interesting, and
>>> possibly much more. Comments appreciated.
>>>
>>> Bob Harper
>>
>> I'm with you when it comes to the fortepiano.
>>
>> Call me Grumpy!
>>
>> I like Buchbinder a lot. Hearing him wasting his art on the fortepiano
>> would probably piss me off.
>
> One could argue (actually, I am arguing) that Buchbinder's seeming
> preference for sharp attacks and rapid decay is ideal for fortepiano. Or
> to put it another way, what I like about Buchbinder has a lot in common
> with what I like about the best fortepiano performances.
>
> I just listened to the short samples on presto: much to offer to those
> who felt a lack of security in the pioneering Bilson recordings.
>
> Stephen

I think that security is exactly what makes it much more likely that
I'll enjoy these performances. Listening to the samples again confirms
that the sounds are, indeed, made by a fortepiano, but Buchbinder makes
it sound less thin and clattery than I'm used to hearing while
preserving its virtues, which for me is a good thing.

Bob Harper

[John Thomas]

I know that. I said that it *sounded* like plucked strings, not that
it was. I was first thinking harpsichord but it didn't sound like any
harpsichord I'd ever heard.

[John Thomas]

On Jan 22, 6:53 am, Terry <b...@clown.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 06:45:26 +1100, John Thomas wrote
> (in article
> <f5c986d7-80d5-4d36-aff5-7bd893282...@s8g2000pbw.googlegroups.com>):

> Plucked!! Now, there's a novelty!
>
> --
> Cheers!
>
> Terry

Not if you're playing a harpsichord.

[Gerard]

Bob Harper <bob.h...@comcast.net> typed:

>
> I think that security is exactly what makes it much more likely that
> I'll enjoy these performances. Listening to the samples again confirms
> that the sounds are, indeed, made by a fortepiano, but Buchbinder
> makes it sound less thin and clattery than I'm used to hearing while

Could be a matter of used instrument and/or way of recording it.

[Thornhill]

On Jan 22, 11:47 am, "Gerard" <ghendriks_nospam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Bob Harper <bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:

I doubt it.

As someone who enjoys the sound of the fp in Mozart, most pianists use
a copy of an 1792 or 1795 Anton Walter, usually made by Paul McNulty.
There are obviously exceptions, such as Bilson who uses a 1782 Anton
Walter (Mozart used this model), and others uses copies of fp's made
by Johann Andreas Stein. But more often then not, it's a copy of the
1792 or 1795 Walter by McNulty that is used.

The sound -- in person and on recording -- is pretty consistent. There
is much more variability with the sound in the 19th century fortpianos
when more people were making them and there were more significant
design changes between models.

A few years ago Lambert Orkis put out a disc where he played the
Appasionata on an fp c.1814-20, an fp c.1830, and a Bosendorfer
Imperial Grand. Really interesting results.

[Bob Harper]

True, but having someone like Buchbinder playing it can't hurt.

Bob Harper

[Thornhill]

On Jan 22, 7:10 pm, Bob Harper <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 1/22/13 8:47 AM, Gerard wrote:> Bob Harper<bob.har...@comcast.net>  typed:

Like MiNe 109 said said, it comes down to if he understands how to use
the "sharp attacks and rapid decay" of the fp to his advantage.

[weary flake]

I recollect that the Beethoven cello set with Pulford and Mcdonald
uses two different forte pianos, and I thought that the first
two sonatas (op. 5) were with a harpsichord, because that's what
the forte piano sounds like.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000044L1/

[Al Eisner]

Did you ever hear Robert Levin's fortepiano disk of K279-281? Issued
about 6 years ago (Deutsche Harmonia Mundi), these became my favorite among
any performances of the Mozart sonatas which I've heard. (Typically I've
found modern piano versions somewhat underpowered or soft-edged.) he
disk is labelled "volume 1", and Levin's intent was to change instruments
at least once to remain roughly contemporary with Mozart, but no more
were ever released.

Bezuidenhout's four solo CDs to date (Harmonia Mundi -- I wonder if there
is some relationship) don't yet include those early works, but I'm stil
curious if you've made any comparisons of style. Is there any one of the
four CDs which you would particularly recommend as a starter? Thanks.

I know, thread drift (sonatas, not concertos, and not Buchbinder). :)
--

Al Eisner

[wkasimer]

On Jan 25, 8:22 pm, Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:

> Did you ever hear Robert Levin's fortepiano disk of K279-281?

Not yet; I think that it's on my enormous Amazon wishlist, though.

For Bezuidenhout, I'd actually recommend the one-off disc that he
recorded before anyone had heard of him:

http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Sturm-Drang-Wolfgang-Amadeus/dp/B00005AMMH

I picked it up out of a $2 bin at PREx years ago, and was astonished.

Bill

[Dufus]

>On Jan 21, 9:12 am, Bob Harper <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote:


Brief review here on BBC Radio 3 : http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01pz2pj

Dufus

[Dufus]

>On Jan 27, 9:35 am, Dufus <steveha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Brief review here on BBC Radio 3 :  http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01pz2pj

About 3 minutes into the program ; should have said in earlier post.

[Bob Harper]

Thanks.

Bob Harper

[howie...@btinternet.com]

I thought it was dreadful. Aggressive, charmless, immature.

[george...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 21 January 2013 17:12:48 UTC+2, Bob Harper wrote:
> Has anyone heard the new disc of #s 23 & 25 on Sony? I've listened to
>
> the samples (on Presto), and there's precious little of the piano. what
>
> there is seems to have Buchbinder's considerable virtues, but it's hard
>
> to say more. It sounds like he's playing a fortepiano, an instrument to
>
> which I am normally allergic, but from what I can hear he makes it
>
> tolerable even for grumps like me. The orchestra sounds interesting, and
>
> possibly much more. Comments appreciated.
>
>
>
> Bob Harper

I can't stand Mozart on a Steinway. The only performance of Mozart on a 'modern' instrument that I think is really good (and I mean REALLY terrific) is the farily old one of Friedrich Gulda and Harnoncourt with the Royal Concertgebouw. Mozart on an inflated piano sucks as far as I'm concerned. I have this new disc btw,and despite a (very) few blemishes in ensemble as a result of having been recorded in live performane would recommend it to anyone thinking that Mozart is supposed to be just pretty and (pretty) tame. It's tremendously exciting and engaging. Also far more sensitive at times than conventional performances. (Bezuidenhout is a wonder, though haven't heard him in concert with an orchestra.)

[Norman Schwartz]

george...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, 21 January 2013 17:12:48 UTC+2, Bob Harper wrote:
>> Has anyone heard the new disc of #s 23 & 25 on Sony? I've listened to
>>
>> the samples (on Presto), and there's precious little of the piano.
>> what
>>
>> there is seems to have Buchbinder's considerable virtues, but it's
>> hard
>>
>> to say more. It sounds like he's playing a fortepiano, an instrument
>> to
>>
>> which I am normally allergic, but from what I can hear he makes it
>>
>> tolerable even for grumps like me. The orchestra sounds interesting,
>> and
>>
>> possibly much more. Comments appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob Harper
>
> I can't stand Mozart on a Steinway. The only performance of Mozart on
> a 'modern' instrument that I think is really good (and I mean REALLY
> terrific) is the farily old one of Friedrich Gulda and Harnoncourt
> with the Royal Concertgebouw. Mozart on an inflated piano sucks as
> far as I'm concerned.

I have this new disc btw,and despite a (very)
> few blemishes in ensemble as a result of having been recorded in live
> performane would recommend it to anyone thinking that Mozart is
> supposed to be just pretty and (pretty) tame. It's tremendously
> exciting and engaging.

I couldn't find (this, new?) disc recording of Sony's (?) K. 488 and 503 (?)
in CD format anywhere, but only as a download.
If we are talking about the same recorded performances could you please tell
me where you obtained it in CD format?
(Please accept my apology beforehand if I've screwed something up.)

[wkasimer]

On Feb 14, 12:17 pm, "Norman Schwartz" <n...@optonline.net> wrote:

> I couldn't find (this, new?) disc recording of Sony's (?) K. 488 and 503 (?)
> in CD format anywhere, but only as a download.
> If we are talking about the same recorded performances could you please tell
> me where you obtained it in CD format?

Odd that it didn't show up on a search of Amazon's website. This is
the link to the item in my order:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009F91YT8

Bill

[Norman Schwartz]

I thank you very much.
Norman

> Bill

[Norman Schwartz]

wkasimer wrote:
> On Feb 14, 12:17 pm, "Norman Schwartz" <n...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> I couldn't find (this, new?) disc recording of Sony's (?) K. 488 and
>> 503 (?) in CD format anywhere, but only as a download.
>> If we are talking about the same recorded performances could you
>> please tell me where you obtained it in CD format?
>
> Odd that it didn't show up on a search of Amazon's website. This is
> the link to the item in my order:
>

Additionally odd because Amazon's mp3 offering doesn't show it being
available in CD format, and vice versa for the CD.

> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009F91YT8
>


> Bill

[wkasimer]

On Feb 14, 3:12 pm, "Norman Schwartz" <n...@optonline.net> wrote:

> Additionally odd because Amazon's mp3 offering doesn't show it being
> available in CD format, and vice versa for the CD.

I noticed that - and there are lots of similar anomalies on Amazon.

Bill

[John Wiser]

"wkasimer" <wkas...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:f4e98e20-04e0-4ea3...@vh9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...

Meanwhile, my copy of the CD
was scanned into the USPS's most dysfunctional
sorting center on February 6th,
and has not emerged to date.

I fancy that bags and tubs
of package mail from Amazon
are dispatched to dark corners
where they can be rifled at leisure.

jdw

[Dufus]

>On Jan 27, 9:35 am, Dufus <steveha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Not about the Mozart cd, but Buchbinder played the Brahms 2nd with
Gilbert / NYPO last week, a very favorable review in the Arts section
of today's NYT ( forgot to copy, and cant return as my free article
allotment there is exhausted ).

[Gerard]

Dufus <steve...@gmail.com> typed:

Maybe other readers have the same problem. (What's the use of your post?)

What about the other hundreds or thousands pianists who played last week?

[Ricky Jimenez]

On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 08:18:45 -0800 (PST), Dufus <steve...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Tommasini's review had this line in it:
"The Brahms Second Concerto is fiendishly difficult, and Mr.
Buchbinder, 66, does not have the limitless virtuosity of some
pianists of the new generation. Still, he played with pianistic
elegance, keen insight and rich textural detail."

And if he had "limitless virtuosity" how would it have sounded? I
suppose Mr. Tommasini claims he can tell the difference in a blindfold
test.

[Norman Schwartz]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/16/arts/music/new-york-philharmonic-at-avery-fisher-hall.html?_r=0&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1361047302-p+NpCIcud6wG0VxUBcMMoQ

[John Thomas]

There are apps available to deal harshly with your stinkin' free
article allotment. What's your OS and browser?
Or, you could just delete your cookies.

[Dufus]

>On Feb 16, 5:24 pm, John Thomas <abrasax...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There are apps available to deal harshly with your stinkin' free
> article allotment.

Thanks , but life is too short. I'll take the freebies , not
begrudging the NYT ( which is not a charitable institution) , and
thereafter live to fight another day.

[Gerard]

Dufus <steve...@gmail.com> typed:

> > On Feb 16, 5:24 pm, John Thomas <abrasax...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > There are apps available to deal harshly with your stinkin' free
> > article allotment.
>
> Thanks , but life is too short.

Someone who spends 20 hours daily on YouTube should not have a reason to
complain about the shortness of life.

[Bob Harper]

On 2/17/13 2:33 AM, Gerard wrote:
(snip)

>
> Someone who spends 20 hours daily on YouTube should not have a reason to
> complain about the shortness of life.

Rather ironic coming from someone who spends 21 hours a day on RMCR :)

Bob Harper

[Kip Williams]

Bob Harper wrote, On 2/17/13 9:33 AM:

He doesn't complain about the shortness of life, though; just about most
everything else.


Kip W

[Gerard]

Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> typed:

How would you know, with your "kill file"?

[Steve de Mena]

Look at the listing. Only "Mozart" and "Nikolaus Harnoncourt" are
listed as artists, and Buchbinder it not listed in the album title.

I submitted some updates:
Title: Mozart: Piano Concerti Nos 23 & 25
Contributor: Mozart Role: Composer [not "Artist"]
Contributor: Nikolaus Harnoncourt Role: Artist
Contributor: Rudolf Buchbinder Role: Artist
Contributor: Concentus Musicus Wien Role: Orchestra

Steve