Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Hough : Most difficult piano piece
610 views
Skip to first unread message
Dufus
Aug 15, 2012, 9:01:38 PM8/15/12
to
And his recording of the same :
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/stephenhough/100065553/the-most-difficult-piece-i-played-once/
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/stephenhough/100065553/the-most-difficult-piece-i-played-once/
Ricky Jimenez
Aug 15, 2012, 10:37:31 PM8/15/12
to
On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 18:01:38 -0700 (PDT), Dufus <steve...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>And his recording of the same :
>
>http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/stephenhough/100065553/the-most-difficult-piece-i-played-once/
That lead me to listening to some of Eileen Joyce's recordings on
Youtube. Wow!!! I don't recall her being discussed here very often.
wrote:
>And his recording of the same :
>
>http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/stephenhough/100065553/the-most-difficult-piece-i-played-once/
Youtube. Wow!!! I don't recall her being discussed here very often.
SPAM- @xs4all.nl HvT
Aug 16, 2012, 5:01:39 AM8/16/12
to
league as Joyce. She's just amazing in this piece.
Henk
Dufus
Aug 16, 2012, 9:35:05 AM8/16/12
to
>On Aug 16, 4:01 am, "HvT" <hvtuijl- SPAM- @xs4all.nl> wrote:
> An excellent performance by Hough, but even Rachmaninov isn't in the same
> league as Joyce. She's just amazing in this piece.
>
Indeed ; and some other great Joyce :
> An excellent performance by Hough, but even Rachmaninov isn't in the same
> league as Joyce. She's just amazing in this piece.
>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFybrQyvKqc (The Schlozer Etude )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQiJ4pDjGY0 ( Liszt "Gnomenreigen" )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff796nTWcx4 ( Granados "Maiden" )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqcSj9gpMIE&feature=relmfu (Chopin
1st
Ballade)
And a rare Stavenhagen bon bon :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R3n-9Qy-OM&feature=relmfu
Dufus
Aug 16, 2012, 9:41:09 AM8/16/12
to
>On Aug 15, 9:37 pm, Ricky Jimenez <ricky...@bestweb.net> wrote:
>Wow!!! I don't recall her being discussed here very often.
I think this APR 5 - cd set was discussed, but check the archives :
>Wow!!! I don't recall her being discussed here very often.
http://tinyurl.com/c8xxjzg
JohnGavin
Aug 16, 2012, 10:13:31 AM8/16/12
to
Perhaps, you're just talking about technique in general - in which case I would mention Rach's recording of the Mendelsohn Etude in F op. 104 #2 is every bit as hair-raising as the Eileen Joyce example.
Dufus
Aug 16, 2012, 12:04:25 PM8/16/12
to
>On Aug 16, 9:13 am, JohnGavin <dagd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Perhaps, you're just talking about technique in general - in which case I would mention Rach's recording of the Mendelsohn Etude in F op. 104 #2 is every bit as hair-raising as the Eileen Joyce example.
Speaking of which :
>
> Perhaps, you're just talking about technique in general - in which case I would mention Rach's recording of the Mendelsohn Etude in F op. 104 #2 is every bit as hair-raising as the Eileen Joyce example.
Op.104, # 2 :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGlJLOBaFdY ( Rachmaninoff )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TcPaVGGWi8 ( Chamayou )
And Rachmaninoff plays Op.104b,No.3 :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2o2qQ49Jjw
SPAM- @xs4all.nl HvT
Aug 16, 2012, 12:56:48 PM8/16/12
to
JohnGavin wrote:
> You're not saying that Rachmaninov recorded this piece, are you?
<g> I was - although I couldn't. I must have compared Joyce's version with
> You're not saying that Rachmaninov recorded this piece, are you?
someone else's (and obviously didn't correctly remember who).
> Perhaps, you're just talking about technique in general - in which
> case I would mention Rach's recording of the Mendelsohn Etude in F
> op. 104 #2 is every bit as hair-raising as the Eileen Joyce example.
set? Is the set worth buying?
Henk
Terry
Aug 26, 2012, 11:03:52 PM8/26/12
to
--
Cheers, Terry
Johnno
Aug 27, 2012, 1:56:14 AM8/27/12
to
> Tasmanian, wasn't she?
>
> --
>
J
Matthew B. Tepper
Aug 27, 2012, 2:02:12 AM8/27/12
to
Johnno <john...@yahoo.com.au> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in
news:85872e07-299d-4880...@googlegroups.com:
>> Tasmanian, wasn't she?
of indicating a person's background, such as calling me a Californian
(probably the nicest thing anybody here ever cares to call me). So why not?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.
letters to be typed in
news:85872e07-299d-4880...@googlegroups.com:
>> Tasmanian, wasn't she?
>
> Sorry to be picky, but 'Tasmanian' isn't a nationality. She was
> Australian, born in the state of Tasmania in 1908. Her career was
> pretty much UK-based, so lots of people assume she was English.
"Tasmanian" is not a nationality, to be sure, but it's a quick and easy way
> Sorry to be picky, but 'Tasmanian' isn't a nationality. She was
> Australian, born in the state of Tasmania in 1908. Her career was
> pretty much UK-based, so lots of people assume she was English.
of indicating a person's background, such as calling me a Californian
(probably the nicest thing anybody here ever cares to call me). So why not?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.
Gerard
Aug 27, 2012, 4:37:34 AM8/27/12
to
Johnno <john...@yahoo.com.au> typed:
But everyone understands what it is.
> > Tasmanian, wasn't she?
> >
> > --
> >
>
> Sorry to be picky, but 'Tasmanian' isn't a nationality.
Nor is 'Berliner' or 'New Yorker'.
> >
> > --
> >
>
> Sorry to be picky, but 'Tasmanian' isn't a nationality.
But everyone understands what it is.
Message has been deleted
Dufus
Aug 27, 2012, 9:05:15 AM8/27/12
to
>On Aug 27, 1:02 am, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> "Tasmanian" is not a nationality, to be sure,
Perhaps at one time was . Per Wiki :
>
> "Tasmanian" is not a nationality, to be sure,
" Tasmania was first inhabited by the Tasmanian Aborigines. Evidence
indicates their presence in the region, later to become an island, at
least 35,000 years ago.[13] Rising sea levels cut Tasmania off from
mainland Australia about 10,000 years ago.
By the time of European contact, the Aboriginal people in Tasmania had
nine major ethnic groups. At the time of British settlement in 1803,
the indigenous population was estimated at between 5,000 and 10,000
people. Through the introduction of infectious diseases to which they
had no immunity, war, persecution, and intermarriage,[14] the
population dwindled to 300 by 1833. Almost all of the indigenous
population was relocated to Flinders Island by George Augustus
Robinson.
A woman named Truganini (1812–76) is generally recognised as the last
full-blooded Tasmanian Aborigine. Strong evidence suggests that the
last survivor was another woman, Fanny Cochrane Smith, who was born at
Wybalena and died in 1905.[15] "
Are there any indigenous Californians left ?
Dufus
Gerard
Aug 27, 2012, 9:29:26 AM8/27/12
to
Dufus <steve...@gmail.com> typed:
> > On Aug 27, 1:02 am, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy�@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > "Tasmanian" is not a nationality, to be sure,
>
> Perhaps at one time was . Per Wiki :
>
> " Tasmania was first inhabited by the Tasmanian Aborigines. Evidence
> indicates their presence in the region, later to become an island, at
> least 35,000 years ago.[13] Rising sea levels cut Tasmania off from
> mainland Australia about 10,000 years ago.
> By the time of European contact, the Aboriginal people in Tasmania had
> nine major ethnic groups. At the time of British settlement in 1803,
> the indigenous population was estimated at between 5,000 and 10,000
> people. Through the introduction of infectious diseases to which they
> had no immunity, war, persecution, and intermarriage,[14] the
> population dwindled to 300 by 1833. Almost all of the indigenous
> population was relocated to Flinders Island by George Augustus
> Robinson.
> A woman named Truganini (1812�76) is generally recognised as the last
> >
> > "Tasmanian" is not a nationality, to be sure,
>
> Perhaps at one time was . Per Wiki :
>
> " Tasmania was first inhabited by the Tasmanian Aborigines. Evidence
> indicates their presence in the region, later to become an island, at
> least 35,000 years ago.[13] Rising sea levels cut Tasmania off from
> mainland Australia about 10,000 years ago.
> By the time of European contact, the Aboriginal people in Tasmania had
> nine major ethnic groups. At the time of British settlement in 1803,
> the indigenous population was estimated at between 5,000 and 10,000
> people. Through the introduction of infectious diseases to which they
> had no immunity, war, persecution, and intermarriage,[14] the
> population dwindled to 300 by 1833. Almost all of the indigenous
> population was relocated to Flinders Island by George Augustus
> Robinson.
> full-blooded Tasmanian Aborigine. Strong evidence suggests that the
> last survivor was another woman, Fanny Cochrane Smith, who was born at
> Wybalena and died in 1905.[15] "
>
What's the point?
> last survivor was another woman, Fanny Cochrane Smith, who was born at
> Wybalena and died in 1905.[15] "
>
JohnGavin
Aug 27, 2012, 10:47:43 AM8/27/12
to
On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 9:01:38 PM UTC-4, Dufus wrote:
> And his recording of the same :
>
>
>
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/stephenhough/100065553/the-most-difficult-piece-i-played-once/
I would really like to know what piece Marc-Andre Hamelin considers the most difficult. Not THAT would be worth knowing.
> And his recording of the same :
>
>
>
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/stephenhough/100065553/the-most-difficult-piece-i-played-once/
Dufus
Aug 27, 2012, 11:50:54 AM8/27/12
to
>On Aug 27, 9:47 am, JohnGavin <dagd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would really like to know what piece Marc-Andre Hamelin considers
the most difficult. Not THAT would be worth knowing.
Apparently,although indirectly, the Reger Bach Variations and the late
> I would really like to know what piece Marc-Andre Hamelin considers
the most difficult. Not THAT would be worth knowing.
Scriabin sonatas :
http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=43015.0
Here is a separate, long interview I have not yet gone through :
http://dothemath.typepad.com/dtm/interview-with-marcandr%C3%A9-hamelin.html
Dufus
Matthew B. Tepper
Aug 27, 2012, 4:07:17 PM8/27/12
to
Dufus <steve...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the following letters
to be typed in news:84dff031-33e7-4344-99a6-548894cdb810
@o8g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
>>On Aug 27, 9:47 am, JohnGavin <dagd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I would really like to know what piece Marc-Andre Hamelin considers
> > the most difficult. Not THAT would be worth knowing.
>
> Apparently,although indirectly, the Reger Bach Variations and the late
> Scriabin sonatas :
>
> http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=43015.0
Interesting; he of course recorded it along with the Telemann Variations
(and some shorter pieces) for Hyperion. I love the Telemanns, but have
always found the Bachs rather austere. Rudolf Serkin recorded the Bachs in
1984, and I went out of my way for some reason to buy his live 1973
performance on BBC Legends, but have never gotten around to comparing them.
My go-to version of the Telemanns is Jorge Bolet, a splendid Decca CD with
Brahms' Handels. The Tacet label has a curio, a roll of an abridged
reading by Frieda Kwast-Hodapp; I think Reger dedicated either this or his
piano concerto to her. But an interesting "ringer" is a coupling of the
Bachs and Telemanns on Koch-Schwann played by one David Levine, who brings
power and persuasion to them. I mention this one in part because I have no
recording date for it, and perhaps somebody here could help with that.
to be typed in news:84dff031-33e7-4344-99a6-548894cdb810
@o8g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
>>On Aug 27, 9:47 am, JohnGavin <dagd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I would really like to know what piece Marc-Andre Hamelin considers
> > the most difficult. Not THAT would be worth knowing.
>
> Apparently,although indirectly, the Reger Bach Variations and the late
> Scriabin sonatas :
>
> http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=43015.0
(and some shorter pieces) for Hyperion. I love the Telemanns, but have
always found the Bachs rather austere. Rudolf Serkin recorded the Bachs in
1984, and I went out of my way for some reason to buy his live 1973
performance on BBC Legends, but have never gotten around to comparing them.
My go-to version of the Telemanns is Jorge Bolet, a splendid Decca CD with
Brahms' Handels. The Tacet label has a curio, a roll of an abridged
reading by Frieda Kwast-Hodapp; I think Reger dedicated either this or his
piano concerto to her. But an interesting "ringer" is a coupling of the
Bachs and Telemanns on Koch-Schwann played by one David Levine, who brings
power and persuasion to them. I mention this one in part because I have no
recording date for it, and perhaps somebody here could help with that.
Dufus
Aug 27, 2012, 4:15:23 PM8/27/12
to
>On Aug 27, 3:07 pm, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
> The Tacet label has a curio, a roll of an abridged
> reading by Frieda Kwast-Hodapp; I think Reger dedicated either this or his
> piano concerto to her.
Yes, Reger did dedicate at least his Piano Concerto to her , and I
> The Tacet label has a curio, a roll of an abridged
> reading by Frieda Kwast-Hodapp; I think Reger dedicated either this or his
> piano concerto to her.
have her recording of his Piano Concerto.
Marcus Bekker also has a good cd of the Bach, Telemann Variations.
Dufus
Message has been deleted
Dufus
Aug 27, 2012, 4:39:27 PM8/27/12
to
Interesting, in the interview linked,Hamelin says he gave up trying to
learn the Boulez 2nd Piano Sonata because the Sonata was too
rhythmically complex.
Boo-more , I guess.
learn the Boulez 2nd Piano Sonata because the Sonata was too
rhythmically complex.
Boo-more , I guess.
Bozo
Aug 8, 2015, 9:19:34 AM8/8/15
to
>On Monday, August 27, 2012 at 3:39:28 PM UTC-5, Bozo wrote:
> Interesting, in the interview linked,Hamelin says he gave up trying to
> learn the Boulez 2nd Piano Sonata because the Sonata was too
> rhythmically complex.
Listening to an ABC broadcast just now, the presenter alleges Richter said the Prokofieff 5th Piano Sonata and Liszt Mephisto Waltz No.1 were the 2 most difficult, technically, to play solo piano works , although I doubt Richter ever tried the Boulez (?).
> Interesting, in the interview linked,Hamelin says he gave up trying to
> learn the Boulez 2nd Piano Sonata because the Sonata was too
> rhythmically complex.
dk
Aug 8, 2015, 7:38:52 PM8/8/15
to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KIvZSml6PU
The Russian Piano School rules! ;-)
dk
dk
Aug 8, 2015, 7:41:46 PM8/8/15
to
Schlozer Etude has moved into teenager territory!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRTlp-vmBKI
Enjoy,
dk
dk
Aug 8, 2015, 10:21:03 PM8/8/15
to
On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 at 6:01:38 PM UTC-7, Bozo wrote:
> And his recording of the same :
>
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/stephenhough/100065553/the-most-difficult-piece-i-played-once/
The Schlozer Etude sounds harder than it actually is -- unlike many Chopin and Liszt
> And his recording of the same :
>
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/stephenhough/100065553/the-most-difficult-piece-i-played-once/
Etudes that are more difficult than they sound. It requires a great deal of dexterity,
speed and flexibility (or in other words primarily finger technique), but doesn't have
complicated rhythms, hand crossings or awkward hand positions. Check the score:
http://imslp.nl/imglnks/usimg/9/99/IMSLP08868-De_Schl__zer_Etude_op.1_Nr.2.pdf
For something REALLY hard, try Dohnanyi's Capriccio-Etude:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EHfTDnZIto
dk
dk
Aug 9, 2015, 2:37:56 AM8/9/15
to
because of the combination of awkward hand positions, complex rhythms,
unusual chords, and wide range of touch and techniques required. If anyone
doubts it, give Lavapies a try! ;-)
dk
Bozo
Aug 9, 2015, 8:24:19 AM8/9/15
to
>On Sunday, August 9, 2015 at 1:37:56 AM UTC-5, dk wrote:
Albeniz, "Lavapies", de Larrocha , with score :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qqcgj8enKo
Dohnanyi , Concert Etude No.6, " Capriccio ", Cziffra live , with score :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQMPhFn0Jy4
Albeniz, "Lavapies", de Larrocha , with score :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qqcgj8enKo
Dohnanyi , Concert Etude No.6, " Capriccio ", Cziffra live , with score :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQMPhFn0Jy4
HT
Aug 9, 2015, 10:20:15 AM8/9/15
to
Not too difficult. Even some amateurs can play it <g>
Henk
Henk
HT
Aug 9, 2015, 1:31:46 PM8/9/15
to
Op zondag 9 augustus 2015 16:20:15 UTC+2 schreef HT:
> Not too difficult. Even some amateurs can play it <g>
>
> Henk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE5o3ZCSjjQ
>
> Henk
Bozo
Aug 9, 2015, 1:59:14 PM8/9/15
to
>On Sunday, August 9, 2015 at 12:31:46 PM UTC-5, HT wrote:
> Op zondag 9 augustus 2015 16:20:15 UTC+2 schreef HT:
> > Not too difficult. Even some amateurs can play it <g>
Perhaps a conservatory student ? Not too many homes have baby grands just for appearances ?
> Op zondag 9 augustus 2015 16:20:15 UTC+2 schreef HT:
> > Not too difficult. Even some amateurs can play it <g>
dk
Aug 9, 2015, 5:56:22 PM8/9/15
to
The Lavapies score is not synchronized well with the audio.
dk
dk
Aug 9, 2015, 5:58:34 PM8/9/15
to
Bozo
Aug 9, 2015, 8:48:45 PM8/9/15
to
>On Sunday, August 9, 2015 at 4:58:34 PM UTC-5, dk wrote:
> Not entirely clear how "amateur" she is:
>
She's a genius: http://abduke.duke.edu/community/members/c-starkweather/profile/
> Not entirely clear how "amateur" she is:
>
graham
Aug 9, 2015, 8:59:41 PM8/9/15
to
On 09/08/2015 6:48 PM, Bozo wrote:
>> On Sunday, August 9, 2015 at 4:58:34 PM UTC-5, dk wrote:
>> Not entirely clear how "amateur" she is:
>>
>
> She's a genius:
Not yet!
>> On Sunday, August 9, 2015 at 4:58:34 PM UTC-5, dk wrote:
>> Not entirely clear how "amateur" she is:
>>
>
> She's a genius:
Graham
dk
Aug 10, 2015, 12:21:02 AM8/10/15
to
OTOH may I respectfully point out that a child of
two professional musicians does not qualify as an
"amateur" by reason of her DNA? ;-)
dk
dk
Aug 10, 2015, 3:32:25 AM8/10/15
to
On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 at 6:01:38 PM UTC-7, Bozo wrote:
> And his recording of the same :
>
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/stephenhough/100065553/the-most-difficult-piece-i-played-once/
Much to my surprise, from the half dozen or
> And his recording of the same :
>
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/stephenhough/100065553/the-most-difficult-piece-i-played-once/
so versions on YT I liked Hamelin's the best!
dk
HT
Aug 10, 2015, 3:46:00 AM8/10/15
to
> OTOH may I respectfully point out that a child of
> two professional musicians does not qualify as an
> "amateur" by reason of her DNA? ;-)
Henk
tomdeacon
Aug 10, 2015, 7:45:50 AM8/10/15
to
music for the last 5 pieces. Later he said he had set it aside. Too much
work to maintain it in his repertoire.
The only time I heard any strain was in the Fête-Dieu à Séville.
--
TD
tomdeacon
Aug 10, 2015, 7:45:51 AM8/10/15
to
as a bit of fluff, tossed off, as it were. Slightly slower, but so much
more interesting.
--
TD
dk
Aug 10, 2015, 11:04:06 AM8/10/15
to
mechanical performance I have ever heard. Albeniz is simply
not his cup of tea.
dk
gggg...@gmail.com
Aug 11, 2015, 7:11:21 AM8/11/15
to
On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 at 3:01:38 PM UTC-10, Bozo wrote:
> And his recording of the same :
>
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/stephenhough/100065553/the-most-difficult-piece-i-played-once/
- Not everything that is more difficult is more meritorious.
> And his recording of the same :
>
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/stephenhough/100065553/the-most-difficult-piece-i-played-once/
Thomas Aquinas
HT
Aug 11, 2015, 8:50:43 AM8/11/15
to
Op dinsdag 11 augustus 2015 13:11:21 UTC+2 schreef gggg...@gmail.com:
Hmmm. According to the ST the difficult has no merit unless it is also good - i.c. well performed. Hough does play the etude very well. According to Thomas there is merit in what he does. You seem to deny that.
Henk
Henk
Bozo
Aug 15, 2015, 4:43:22 PM8/15/15
to
>On Tuesday, August 11, 2015 at 7:50:43 AM UTC-5, HT wrote:
This can't be easy :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un0ZW4TWw5I
This can't be easy :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un0ZW4TWw5I
dk
Aug 16, 2015, 2:58:14 AM8/16/15
to
On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 at 6:01:38 PM UTC-7, Bozo wrote:
> And his recording of the same :
>
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/stephenhough/100065553/the-most-difficult-piece-i-played-once/
Try this:
> And his recording of the same :
>
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/stephenhough/100065553/the-most-difficult-piece-i-played-once/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWvEKWbK80Q&fmt=22
dk
HT
Aug 16, 2015, 5:23:37 AM8/16/15
to
Op zondag 16 augustus 2015 08:58:14 UTC+2 schreef dk:
Matsuev certainly can play the piano. Brilliant performance!
Henk
Henk
Bozo
Aug 16, 2015, 10:02:07 AM8/16/15
to
>On Sunday, August 16, 2015 at 4:23:37 AM UTC-5, HT wrote:
> Op zondag 16 augustus 2015 08:58:14 UTC+2 schreef dk
> Op zondag 16 augustus 2015 08:58:14 UTC+2 schreef dk
> Matsuev certainly can play the piano. Brilliant performance!
And some Grieg / Ginzburg :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tdBFx37Mps
HT
Aug 16, 2015, 10:29:07 AM8/16/15
to
Op zondag 16 augustus 2015 16:02:07 UTC+2 schreef Bozo:
Elsewhere on YT this performance is called "Matsuev kills Grieg" ... <g>
Henk
Henk
Charles Milton Ling
Nov 9, 2015, 4:45:27 PM11/9/15
to
--
Charles Milton Ling
Vienna, Austria
0 new messages