schubert sonatas on a 70s LP?

[herman]

I have a rather dim recollection of having had a LP with the Schubert
A minor sonatas (op 143 and 42). I think it was a CBS LP with, I
guess, an American pianist. The sleeve was yellow.

Does anyone have an idea who the pianist was? I don't.

[Frank Berger]

Serkin?

[Ward Hardman]

So that would be

- Sonata in A minor, D. 784 (old Op. 143)

- Sonata in A minor, D. 845 (old Op. 42)

(Hmmm, not much tonal variety there. ;-)

Do you recall what decade in which this recording was recorded/issued,
or at least in your possession? Also, whether it was mono or stereo?
By the late 70's most reviews in High Fidelity were using Deutsch
numbers for their Schubert listings. Schwann always listed the LP as
originally issued by the record label. (*Nobody* was about to redo
their album covers and notes just because of advances in Schubert
scholarship!!!)

Was the LP label actually "CBS" or could it have been "Columbia"? I
can't find any "CBS" LPs on my record shelves, but Berio's "Sinfonia"
in 1970 was still "Columbia Masterworks," while Berio's "Allelujah II"
is on a 1976 RCA LP which gives thanks to "CBS Records" for the use of
Pierre Boulez as co-conductor.

A quick scan through my 1963 Schwann Artist issue "Piano" section
didn't show a match for this pairing, but LPs were issued up through
the mid-80s.

The "yellow" sleeve will be a harder item to verify, unless some RMCR
member can find it in the Schubert section of his record shelves.

On the other hand, could your memory be playing tricks on you?

Radu Lupu's Decca CD (475 7074) performances of these two works time
out at 36:41 (D845) and 18:38 (D784), not counting inter-track pauses,
totaling 55 minutes, 19 seconds. The logical LP split would be to put
D784's three movements on side 1 along with the first movement of D845
(31:06 duration), and the remaining three movements on side 2 for a
duration of 24 minutes, 13 seconds. At Lupu's timings, this would a
super-long LP, unless the CBS/Columbia pianist was a terrific speed
demon.

Such a long piano LP would have severe problems with inter-groove
distortion. I recall a Columbia LP of the '60s, Beethoven's
"Creatures of Prometheus" with Louis Lane and the Cleveland, in which
there was so much pre- and post-echo that you heard the concert
*three* times in each playing!

--Ward Hardman

"The older I get, the more I admire and crave competence,
just simple competence, in any field from adultery to zoology."
- H.L. Mencken

[Josquin]

Here's one that I have - wrong sonatas, but a yellow label and an
American pianist:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Schubert-Piano-Sonatas-Beveridge-Webster-Heliodor-NICE-/270223345542

[herman]

On 8 fév, 03:44, Ward Hardman <ward.hard...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 7, 12:48 pm, herman <her...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I have a rather dim recollection of having had a LP with the Schubert
> > A minor sonatas (op 143 and 42). I think it was a CBS LP with, I
> > guess, an American pianist. The sleeve was yellow.
>
> > Does anyone have an idea who the pianist was? I don't.
>
> So that would be
>
>   - Sonata in A minor, D. 784 (old Op. 143)
>
>   - Sonata in A minor, D. 845 (old Op. 42)
>
> (Hmmm, not much tonal variety there.    ;-)
>
> Do you recall what decade in which this recording was recorded/issued,
> or at least in your possession?  Also, whether it was mono or stereo?

I made the purchase around 1975-6, and the pianist was sufficiently
big-name to have his portrait on the sleeve.

It was stereo.

I have googled to see whether Leon Fleischer recorded these works, but
I don't think he did.

Maybe it was Serkin.

[JohnA]

The only CBS/Columbia recording of Op. 143 I am aware of was M 30073,
by Andre Watts.

[Sacqueboutier]

Look at this on eBay:

CASALS FESTIVAL AT PERPIGNAN - SCHUBERT SONATA / VARIATIOS-
SZIGETI,COLUMBIA BLUE

http://bit.ly/y3IcHX

[Sacqueboutier]

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=150753712704&index=7&nav=SEARCH&nid=48153366460

[herman]

On 8 fév, 03:44, Ward Hardman <ward.hard...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 7, 12:48 pm, herman <her...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I have a rather dim recollection of having had a LP with the Schubert
> > A minor sonatas (op 143 and 42). I think it was a CBS LP with, I
> > guess, an American pianist. The sleeve was yellow.
>
> > Does anyone have an idea who the pianist was? I don't.
>
> So that would be
>
>   - Sonata in A minor, D. 784 (old Op. 143)
>
>   - Sonata in A minor, D. 845 (old Op. 42)
>
> (Hmmm, not much tonal variety there.    ;-)
>

Maybe, on second thought, the program was D 784 in A minor and the
Wanderer Fantasie.

[Ward Hardman]

From Schwann Artist Issue, Tenth Edition (1982, just before CDs took
over):

Watts, Andre - ...

Schubert: Son. in a, D. 784, Waltzes (12), Op. 18, D. 145;
Wanderer Fantasie CBS M 33073

That was the only likely suspect I found in visually scanning all the
Artist Issues I still have, from '63 to '82.

Not many Schubert sonatas were recorded in those days, except for D960
and complete surveys like Friedrich Wuehrer's (and later Klien's) for
Vox. (I had all 3 of Wuehrer's 3-LP sets, but later gave them away.)
Americans making recordings of Schubert sonatas included Webster
Aitken and Beveridge Webster, neither on major labels.

The "Wanderer" Fantasy in C Major, Op 15, D760, isn't in A minor, so
Herman couldn't have confused that with D845 on basis of common
tonality.

(Was the cover yellow?)

[Ward Hardman]

Bingo!!! That would be Andre Watts. (See JohnA's and my posts
below.)

[Steve Emerson]

In article
<8513af1e-68b2-4a91...@p13g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,

Serkin didn't record either work.

SE.

[herman]

Thank you, John, and Ward, I guess it was Andre Watts.

The LP programme must have been the A minor on one side and the
Wanderer on the other side.

I was listening to 784 (old op 143) recently and suddenly I realized
this was probably the first Schubert sonata I became familiar with
because of this LP, which I lost sight of long ago.

I actually listen to the smaller Schubert sonatas a lot more than the
big three.

[Frank Berger]

Not sure this qualifies as "yellow," but... (about 2/3 of the way down)....

http://myav.com.tw/market/printthread.php?s=3ceff8b0e40be34a9db6aacee5e3818a&threadid=20445153

[Steve Emerson]

In article
<5ae3e663-8676-4eb9...@t5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,

Meaning -- the last three? Unfortunate choice of words; surely D. 894 is
just as big, in fact 894, 845, and 850 probably "bigger" than 958.
Rendering the opposition of the "small" and "the big three" a little
problematic.

SE.

[Steve Emerson]

In article <cuydnSXkj6ObJ6_S...@supernews.com>,

"Frank Berger" <frankd...@gmail.com> wrote:


> Not sure this qualifies as "yellow," but... (about 2/3 of the way down)....
>
> http://myav.com.tw/market/printthread.php?s=3ceff8b0e40be34a9db6aacee5e3818a&t
> hreadid=20445153

The things that turn up on the Internet....

WTF is that Item #18, Borodin SQ #2 on Peerless/Oryx by an unnamed
quartet, "recorded without microphones."

And how about #17, Krips/LSO on Everest, "The first in 35 MM recording"?
(Old orchestral vinyl being a distinct non-specialty for me.)

SE.

[maready]

On Feb 8, 2:05 pm, Steve Emerson <eme...@n-n-nospamsonic.net> wrote:
> In article <cuydnSXkj6ObJ6_SnZ2dnUVZ_s6dn...@supernews.com>,

>  "Frank Berger" <frankdber...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Not sure this qualifies as "yellow," but...  (about 2/3 of the way down)....
>

> >http://myav.com.tw/market/printthread.php?s=3ceff8b0e40be34a9db6aacee...

> > hreadid=20445153
>
> The things that turn up on the Internet....
>
> WTF is that Item #18, Borodin SQ #2 on Peerless/Oryx by an unnamed
> quartet, "recorded without microphones."
>
> And how about #17, Krips/LSO on Everest, "The first in 35 MM recording"?
> (Old orchestral vinyl being a distinct non-specialty for me.)
>
> SE.

35MM I understand ---- they recorded audio on 35MM film stock for
super high fidelity. But 'without microphones'? Maybe it's a reissue
of a pre-electric recording? Check out the price tags too --- are
those really US$ prices?!?

[Frank Berger]

Steve Emerson wrote:
> In article <cuydnSXkj6ObJ6_S...@supernews.com>,
> "Frank Berger" <frankd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Not sure this qualifies as "yellow," but... (about 2/3 of the way
>> down)....
>>
>> http://myav.com.tw/market/printthread.php?s=3ceff8b0e40be34a9db6aacee5e3818a&t
>> hreadid=20445153
>
>
> The things that turn up on the Internet....
>
> WTF is that Item #18, Borodin SQ #2 on Peerless/Oryx by an unnamed
> quartet, "recorded without microphones."
>

Meaning it's an acoustic recording. So what?

> And how about #17, Krips/LSO on Everest, "The first in 35 MM
> recording"? (Old orchestral vinyl being a distinct non-specialty for
> me.)
>

Meaning that they claim to be the first, best or only at recording on 35 MM
tape? Is that a particulary exregious claim?


> SE.

[Steve Emerson]

In article
<7073d9b7-118e-4629...@dp8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,

maready <dab...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 8, 2:05 pm, Steve Emerson <eme...@n-n-nospamsonic.net> wrote:
> > In article <cuydnSXkj6ObJ6_SnZ2dnUVZ_s6dn...@supernews.com>,
> >  "Frank Berger" <frankdber...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Not sure this qualifies as "yellow," but...  (about 2/3 of the way
> > > down)....
> >
> > >http://myav.com.tw/market/printthread.php?s=3ceff8b0e40be34a9db6aacee...
> > > hreadid=20445153
> >
> > The things that turn up on the Internet....
> >
> > WTF is that Item #18, Borodin SQ #2 on Peerless/Oryx by an unnamed
> > quartet, "recorded without microphones."
> >
> > And how about #17, Krips/LSO on Everest, "The first in 35 MM recording"?
> > (Old orchestral vinyl being a distinct non-specialty for me.)
> >
> > SE.
>
> 35MM I understand ---- they recorded audio on 35MM film stock for
> super high fidelity.

Sure, but I thought several other labels were a lot more conspicuously
associated with 35 MM than... Everest. It just sounds like one of those
silly, over-the-top claims. Like hypothetically -- Royal Crown, The
Leader in Cola.

> But 'without microphones'? Maybe it's a reissue
> of a pre-electric recording?

Someone else has sorted this out for us. It seemed unlikely that a label
would be trumpeting, in recentish times, the technology of acoustic
recordings.

> Check out the price tags too --- are
> those really US$ prices?!?

I think it's a Taiwan site.

SE.

[Bob Lombard]

themusicparlour wrote:

> On Feb 8, 7:26 pm, "Frank Berger"<frankdber...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> WTF is that Item #18, Borodin SQ #2 on Peerless/Oryx by an unnamed
>>> quartet, "recorded without microphones."
>>
>> Meaning it's an acoustic recording. So what?
>

> That displays an appalling lack of knowledge !!!
>
> "Each instrument is fitted with a special vibration sensor . . .
> designed to convert the sound of the instrument into a corresponding
> electrical signal and to feed the signal, by cable, directly to the
> recording console".

Harumph. That is the definition of a contact microphone.

[Frank Berger]

I searched for that quote and found it quoted from the record notes in a
1969 review of the Borodin SQ#2 performed by the Da Sallo Quartet on the
Conquest label. Possibly the same recording as above? I wonder how Mr.
Musicparlour associated it with the recording on Peerless, since that quote
isn't on that site.

[t]

What a shame no one here seems to know the fantastic performance of
Sonata in G, D894 by Henry Jolles on a 1953 Haydn Society disc!

Anybody acquainted with this disc?

Jolles had played Schubert's complete piano music in Heidelberg in 1928.

[herman]

Has anyone here heard the new Schubert cycle Imogen Cooper has been
recording for Avie with the BBC?

Of course they have been lauded in the British press, but that doesn't
mean much.

[pianomaven]

The first cycle was very fine, Herman. I don't doubt this new cycle is
equally good.

TD

[Terry]

themusicparlour <tin...@ymail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 8, 7:26 pm, "Frank Berger" <frankdber...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> WTF is that Item #18, Borodin SQ #2 on Peerless/Oryx by an unnamed
>>> quartet, "recorded without microphones."
>>
>> Meaning it's an acoustic recording. So what?
>

> That displays an appalling lack of knowledge !!!
>
> "Each instrument is fitted with a special vibration sensor . . .
> designed to convert the sound of the instrument into a corresponding
> electrical signal and to feed the signal, by cable, directly to the
> recording console".

i.e. a microphone.
--
Cheers, Terry

[maready]

On Feb 8, 3:26 pm, Steve Emerson <eme...@n-n-nospamsonic.net> wrote:
> In article

> <7073d9b7-118e-4629-8929-09d9a5be2...@dp8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,

Hey, I'm from North Carolina --- I grew up on Royal Crown Cola (and
Sun Drop)!

[Steve Emerson]

In article
<85d6c728-19c0-4be5...@gr6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,

maready <dab...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hey, I'm from North Carolina --- I grew up on Royal Crown Cola (and
> Sun Drop)!

RC rules.

SE.

[herman]

As I was listening to some eighties Brendel Schubert recordings, of
which I have four or five singles, I was kind of puzzled to notice
that the first digital Schubert recording (AFAIK), the D664 and D537,
was eventually not included in the 7cd boxset of Brendel's collected
Schubert.

I cannot think what's wrong with the lovely A minor, musically or
technically, so I'm wondering what was the reason for this move.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000E2NU/ref=s9_simh_gw_p15_d0_g15_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0KX59BMTE56DB15VJ0WH&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846