"Hatto" Chopin Waltzes
Alan Cooper
performances that I find graceful, poised, and refined. At MrT's suggestion, I've uploaded
a zip file containing 192 kbps mp3s of the waltzes. Note that the op. posth. works are
included along with the canonical set--even the (spurious?) waltz that was "discovered" in
the '30s. The CD also includes the 3 tiny Ecossaises, op. 72, but those tracks are
defective on my copy. I never exchanged the CD because the pieces are so inconsequential,
and besides, I had received the CD as a free bonus with my one and only CA order.
http://download.yousendit.com/4D54B56A2DC40126
AC
MrT
same. This promises to be difficult business.
Best,
MrT
Ulvi Yurtsever
news:Xns99086110E2D68am...@69.28.186.158:
(Your download limit is exceeded, so couldn't get these).
Biret's naxos disc of the waltzes includes the op. posth.
as well as the eccossaises. Has anyone compared her disc
yet with the Hatto?
Ulvi
Alan Cooper
I seem to have exceeded my download limit on both mydatabus and yousendit. Sorry, but
since this hasn't happened to me before I'm not sure what to do about it. (Nothing? Wait
until tomorrow?) Anyway, if I'm not mistaken, Biret's disc includes 19 waltzes (not 20,
like "Hatto," although of course the spurious extra one could come from another source).
Also, according to arkivmusic, Biret recorded only one of the three Ecossaises. The only
digital recording I could find of all three was Bunin's on DG, which I don't have. But my
copy of "Hatto's" Ecossaises is defective, unfortunately.
AC
Steve Emerson
Alan Cooper <amco...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
Pletnev did them all. Although it seems unlikely the Coupester would
have dipped into that well.
OTOH you may be getting a bum steer from the weird numbering of this
particular Chopin work; the three Ecossaises as a whole (all 2 minutes'
worth) constituting Op 72 No 3.
Freire's analog set of the E's was well enough remastered by Teldec that
it could have been touched for the 'Hatto'.
Having heard some of the Waltzes download, I can see why you were so
taken with these, Alan. I have to say I'd be really surprised if Biret
turned out to be the source.
Some very interesting touches in #2; touches that eliminate Alexeev and
both Bunin recordings as candidates for that waltz at least.
> But my copy of "Hatto's" Ecossaises is defective,
> unfortunately.
SE.
dk
> In article <Xns9908C182C9DBamcooperoptonline...@69.28.186.158>,
> Alan Cooper <amcoo...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Ulvi Yurtsever <a...@b.c> wrote innews:Xns99088A4...@69.28.186.121:
>
> > > Alan Cooper <amcoo...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote in
Malcuzynski? Francois? Cziffra?
Who else is left? ;-)
dk
Ulvi Yurtsever
I compared the first few Hatto waltzes with Biret (naxos)
and they are different performances.
Some of the less standard pieces on these disc may
match still, but I don't have the time to compare the
whole disc; maybe later...
Ulvi
dk
Couldn't get it, you seem to have overdrawn your account limit!
dk
MrT
Classics?
Best,
MrT
MrT
> Some very interesting touches in #2; touches that eliminate Alexeev and
> both Bunin recordings as candidates for that waltz at least.
I can see we're been barking up similar trees... these performances
reminded me of the Bunin-Alexeev school, too, superb control of the
piano, stresss on the melodic line, a very "Polish" sound, etc.
Best,
mrt
MrT
Another guy who plays in this style is Alexei Lubimov, but he
specializes in playing old pianos and, to my knowledge, he hasn't
recorded the Chopin waltzes.
Best,
MrT
Alan Cooper
news:1175758299.6...@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:
> Couldn't get it, you seem to have overdrawn your account limit!
Right. Try http://www.mydatabus.com/public/amcooper/z/HattoChopinWaltzes.zip , which was
working again when I checked it a few minutes ago. My limit is 1GB per day, which means
only 10 downloads in this case. If you continue to have difficulty, e-mail me privately so
I can send you a CD. I think you'll find the performances interesting.
AC
Alan Cooper
news:emersn-96C917....@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net:
> Freire's analog set of the E's was well enough remastered by Teldec
> that it could have been touched for the 'Hatto'.
>
> Having heard some of the Waltzes download, I can see why you were so
> taken with these, Alan. I have to say I'd be really surprised if Biret
> turned out to be the source.
>
> Some very interesting touches in #2; touches that eliminate Alexeev
> and both Bunin recordings as candidates for that waltz at least.
Glad you're enjoying the performances. It's precisely because I like them so much that I
wish I could identify the performer. I didn't feel that way about the "Hatto" Iberia (which
I actually paid money for). It struck me as technically excellent but musically
uninteresting. I wasn't surprised to learn that it's probably Muraro, whose playing I
characterized that way even when I knew that he was performing :-)
Alan
Alan Cooper
news:1175778668.5...@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
> On Apr 5, 3:05 pm, Alan Cooper <amcoo...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
>> Glad you're enjoying the performances. It's precisely because I like
>> the
> m so much that I
>> wish I could identify the performer. I didn't feel that way about
>> the "H
> atto" Iberia (which
>> I actually paid money for). It struck me as technically excellent
>> but mu
> sically
>> uninteresting. I wasn't surprised to learn that it's probably
>> Muraro, wh
> ose playing I
>> characterized that way even when I knew that he was performing :-)
>>
> Alan, the Iberia has been identified as by Jean-François Heisser, not
> Muraro. Muraro was the Ravel guy...
Sorry for the confusion. Heisser even less interesting to me than Muraro, on the whole :-)
Alan
Paul Goldstein
says...
>
>Still trying to learn the identity of the pianist who actually is responsible
>for
>performances that I find graceful, poised, and refined.
Thanks for posting these, Alan. I'm listening to them now. The performances
have much more personality and interest than the other "Hatto" Chopin I heard
(Ballades, Sonata No. 1 e.g.). To me, it sounds like a contemporary
reinterpretation of these over-familiar pieces by a pianist with great fingers
and a light touch. Many of the waltzes are reinterpreted to sound more like
melancholy Mazurkas. So far (1-7), they all sound like the work of a single
pianist.
I have no idea who it is, though. It's definitely not a recording I am familiar
with (old classics like Rubinstein, Lipatti, Malcuzynski; also Katsaris).
Alan Cooper
news:ev35i...@drn.newsguy.com:
> Thanks for posting these, Alan. I'm listening to them now. The
> performances have much more personality and interest than the other
> "Hatto" Chopin I heard (Ballades, Sonata No. 1 e.g.). To me, it
> sounds like a contemporary reinterpretation of these over-familiar
> pieces by a pianist with great fingers and a light touch. Many of the
> waltzes are reinterpreted to sound more like melancholy Mazurkas. So
> far (1-7), they all sound like the work of a single pianist.
>
> I have no idea who it is, though. It's definitely not a recording I
> am familiar with (old classics like Rubinstein, Lipatti, Malcuzynski;
> also Katsaris).
I know what you mean about the interpretations. Some of the tempi are remarkably slow, yet
there is never a loss of momentum. The technique seems impeccable and the rubato feels
natural to me. My wife's first reaction was that the performances reminded her of Arrau
(who recorded only the standard 14, iirc), but with an easier, lighter touch.
Alan
MrT
> I know what you mean about the interpretations. Some of the tempi are remarkably slow, yet
> there is never a loss of momentum. The technique seems impeccable and the rubato feels
> natural to me. My wife's first reaction was that the performances reminded her of Arrau
> (who recorded only the standard 14, iirc), but with an easier, lighter touch.
>
The style of playing and the fingerwork reminds me of both Bunin and
Alexeev, Russian school but with an understanding of the Polish style.
That is why I thought of Tatiana Shebanova, but I suppose nobody has a
copy of her waltzes on Canyon... I have actually heard Shebanova and
her touch _could be_ that heard on these excellent waltz performances.
I don't think it is Bunin or Alexeev, though. A direct comparison in
waltzes I know well shows enough differences.
By the way, if Shebanova shows up to play near your town, don't
hesitate. Very fine musician.
Best,
mrt
Alan Cooper
news:1175791107.6...@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
Thanks for the recommendation. I remember her as a prizewinner in the Chopin competition,
but don't think I've ever heard her. Stumbled on this useful list of recordings while
poking around the web: http://www.albany.edu/~rshaf/waltzes.html . Note the comment
about "Hatto" there. Checking out the few artists who have recorded #20, I'm pretty sure
that "Hatto" is not Roberto Metro (good samples on line). Doesn't sound like Ohlsson to
me, but someone should check to be sure. And what about Sterczynski?
AC
MrT
> "MrT" <symbiotr...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:> Thanks for the recommendation. I remember her as a prizewinner in the Chopin competition,
> but don't think I've ever heard her. Stumbled on this useful list of recordings while
> about "Hatto" there. Checking out the few artists who have recorded #20, I'm pretty sure
> that "Hatto" is not Roberto Metro (good samples on line). Doesn't sound like Ohlsson to
> me, but someone should check to be sure. And what about Sterczynski?
This is the first time I hear his name. Isn't Selene a Polish label? I
think I have some Koczalski on this label. Since we're probably
talking obscure lables, this might be a candidate, too. I see on that
list that Collard recorded the waltzes, something that had totally
escaped me. Was this actually issued? I've never seen a copy.
Best,
MrT
Andrej Kluge
Paul Goldstein schrieb:
> I have no idea who it is, though. It's definitely not a recording I
> am familiar with (old classics like Rubinstein, Lipatti, Malcuzynski;
> also Katsaris).
It's not Kocsis either.
Ciao
A.
MrT
Shebanova" is in the database. If the right Hatto files are put in the
right order and named right (preferably, exactly as in Shebanova),
etc. a match should show up if it is indeed a match.
Best,
MrT
Simon Roberts
Yes, about 20 years ago; right now there's a cheap used copy at amazon UK.
Simon
MrT
Any confirmation would be helpful. This one is "Track 17" on the Hatto
folder.
Best,
MrT
Alan Cooper
@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
> The "Hatto" A minor waltz (op. posth.) could well be by Cziffra (EMI).
> Any confirmation would be helpful. This one is "Track 17" on the Hatto
> folder.
I don't think so, although the overall timings are close. "Hatto's" melody line sounds
freer and more legato to me; Cziffra's left hand crisper and more even.
Alan
Henk van Tuijl
"MrT" <symbi...@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
news:1175798993....@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
An URL with recordings of the complete Chopin Waltzes.
http://www.albany.edu/~rshaf/waltzes.html
It doesn't really make things easier.
Henk
Steve Emerson
"MrT" <symbi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 5, 6:30 pm, Alan Cooper <amcoo...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
> > I know what you mean about the interpretations. Some of the tempi are
> > remarkably slow, yet
> > there is never a loss of momentum. The technique seems impeccable and the
> > rubato feels
> > natural to me. My wife's first reaction was that the performances reminded
> > her of Arrau
> > (who recorded only the standard 14, iirc), but with an easier, lighter
> > touch.
(Surely some wag has the appropriate wisecrack re: lighter touch than
Arrau...)
> The style of playing and the fingerwork reminds me of both Bunin and
> Alexeev, Russian school but with an understanding of the Polish style.
> That is why I thought of Tatiana Shebanova, but I suppose nobody has a
> copy of her waltzes on Canyon... I have actually heard Shebanova and
> her touch _could be_ that heard on these excellent waltz performances.
> I don't think it is Bunin or Alexeev, though. A direct comparison in
> waltzes I know well shows enough differences.
>
> By the way, if Shebanova shows up to play near your town, don't
> hesitate. Very fine musician.
I have her Brahms Ballades and Chopin Impromptus, which are fillers more
or less in Bukok's Great Piano Music of the World series (for Bashkirov
Brahms sonata 3 and Zhukov Chopin preludes). She plays well but I found
these waltzes more interesting interpretively FWIW. (I see you agree
with me about Bunin and Alexeev.) Incidentally, it turns out that the
Bukok series includes Bunin's Melodiya set of waltzes; which is good
news. Russiandvd ought to be able to get those although they don't list
them. The set should be gettable direct from Korea in any case.
http://www.webspawner.com/users/shpark/
SE.
MrT
> "MrT" <symbiotr...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1175798993.366565.5120
I continue to think this may be the same performance. My younger son
noted that for two guys to trill exactly the same way is rather
difficult. Henk, do you want to subject this poor waltz (a nice piece)
to wave analysis? That should tell us the story, yes or no.
Best,
MrT
David Fox
A Cziffra identification would run counter to the established Coupe-de-
Watkins pattern. Cziffra was far too famous, his playing was far too
forceful and idiosyncratic, and the vast majority of his recordings
were far too analog to be included in the Hatto Canon. The true
pianist will ultimately emerge from the minor-label limited-release
hinterlands as all of the others have.
As for the trills, how many ways could there be to play two
alternating notes? :) Seriously, don't dismiss the possibility that
these Cziffra performances seeped into the real performer's
consciousness. I tend to play (or attempt to play) the trills in
these waltzes along the lines of the performances that make the most
sense to me at the time. I'm not sure I consciously decide to ape
Rubinstein or Lipatti, but I can usually trace my choices or my sense
of what's "right" to a root performance once I think about it.
DF
David Fox
> Hatto...
>
My apologies. I haven't had the chance to download the Hatto
selections. If there's obvious tape hiss then I withdraw all of my
comments and suppositions.
Perhaps Coupe-de-Watkins was too preoccupied with the fabrication of a
particularly scintillating Czech timpani anecdote at the time. Out of
convenience he may have been forced picked an old chestnut out of his
collection. Or maybe he made the mistake this one time of delegating
the choice to his good buddy Tom Deacon who has never found a job too
simple to screw up.
DF
MrT
> On Apr 5, 3:39 pm, "MrT" <symbiotr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > David, I have no doubt that it is Cziffra. There is tape hiss in the
> > Hatto...
>
> My apologies. I haven't had the chance to download the Hatto
> selections. If there's obvious tape hiss then I withdraw all of my
> comments and suppositions.
You should make the comparison. Maybe my ears are lying to me.
> Perhaps Coupe-de-Watkins was too preoccupied with the fabrication of a
> particularly scintillating Czech timpani anecdote at the time. Out of
> convenience he may have been forced picked an old chestnut out of his
> collection. Or maybe he made the mistake this one time of delegating
> the choice to his good buddy Tom Deacon who has never found a job too
> simple to screw up.
The possibilities for farce are limitless in Hattoland.
Best,
MrT
aleksios
> [...] I continue to think this may be the same performance. My
> younger son noted that for two guys to trill exactly the same
> way is rather difficult. Henk, do you want to subject this poor
> waltz (a nice piece) to wave analysis? [...]
A tool which (to my knowledge) hasn't been used for this job is Audio
DiffMaker:
<http://www.libinst.com/Audio%20DiffMaker.htm>
It was designed for a different task, but I think it might be useful.
I should align the waveforms visually prior to using it.
--Alex (the testing philistine)
Simon Roberts
says...
>A Cziffra identification would run counter to the established Coupe-de-
>Watkins pattern. Cziffra was far too famous,
Yes, but there's also Ashkenazy
his playing was far too
>forceful and idiosyncratic,
Do you think he's either of those things in either of his recordings of the
waltzes?
Simon
Steve Emerson
"MrT" <symbi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
These are not the same. Listen to the last couple of phrases. For that
matter listen to how much more staccato Cziffra is in the opening bars,
and how much more pronounced his left hand is -- hear the left hand in
the first 12 seconds or so, vs. what happens in "Hatto."
I agree there is tape hiss in the "Hatto." You can hear it fade out at
the end of the track. They're cagier at the beginning.
Here's a graphic comparison of the audio for the two tracks, with the
extra silence at the start of "Hatto" trimmed off to make them more
comparable. (Very small jpeg file, this.)
http://www.yousendit.com/download/QlVocHBBTXZlaFEwTVE9PQ
The greater volume of the Cziffra has to be factored in, but there are
numerous telltale differences visible. "19 Audio Track" is the Cziffra,
"17 Audio Track" is the "Hatto."
SE.
dk
> On Apr 6, 1:28 am, "David Fox" <davidfox2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 5, 3:39 pm, "MrT" <symbiotr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > David, I have no doubt that it is Cziffra. There is tape hiss in the
> > >Hatto...
>
> > My apologies. I haven't had the chance to download theHatto
> > selections. If there's obvious tape hiss then I withdraw all of my
> > comments and suppositions.
>
> You should make the comparison. Maybe my ears are lying to me.
>
No, they are not.
This is Cziffra.
dk
dk
But not in all of them.
The phrasing and articulation are different in
some of the later waltzes. Some of the waltzes
also sound slowed down.
dk
dk
Upon further listening, the "Hatto" Chopin Waltzes
did not all come from Cziffra's marvelous hands.
Listen for instance to no. 1 op. 18, no. 16 in A
flat, and no. 17 in E flat (which is no. 19 in the
"Hatto" set). The first two are clearly by Cziffra,
while the latter is not.
There are additional sound differences between
pieces in the "Hatto" set (as posted by Alan),
in terms of dynamic range, tone color, depth
and reverberation that strongly suggest they
come from different recordings, as well as
differences in attack, phrasing and articulation
that suggest different pianists.
For easy reference, snippets of all Cziffra Waltzes
may be found here: http://tinyurl.com/2zybe6.
Enjoy,
dk
dk
To the best of my hearing ability the first 6 "Hatto"
Waltzes are clearly by Cziffra (IMHO). I hope I don't
need a new pair of ears -- where would I get them ?!?
His touch, phrasing and articulation are unmistakable,
even through BC's tempi manipulations.
Time comparisons listed below are for the first minute,
and computed in my head, so only approximate
1. Waltz No.1 In E Flat, Op.18 4% faster
2. Waltz No.2 In A Flat, Op.34 No.1 15% slower
3. Waltz No.3 In A Minor, Op.34 No.2 25% slower!
4. Waltz No.4 In F, Op.34 No.3 12% slower
5. Waltz No.5 In A Flat, Op. 42 8% slower
6. Waltz No.6 In D Flat, Op.64 No.1 4% slower at 1 min, but faster at
35 sec!
The "Minute" waltz is a great illustration of BC's
clever and devious tempi manipulation: approximately
3% faster at 35 sec, but 4% faster at 1 minute!
Moving on to the next batch.
dk
dk
Waltzes 7 through 10 don't sound like Cziffra. The
phrasing, attack and agogics sound different to my
ears.
dk
Steve Emerson
"dk" <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Upon further listening, the "Hatto" Chopin Waltzes
> did not all come from Cziffra's marvelous hands.
>
> Listen for instance to no. 1 op. 18, no. 16 in A
> flat, and no. 17 in E flat (which is no. 19 in the
> "Hatto" set). The first two are clearly by Cziffra,
> while the latter is not.
Hmm, don't know about the #16 in A flat. Listen to the "Hatto" from
around :37 to around :42, then to the Cziffra, which is very different
(the "Hatto" being surprisingly enough more virtuosic). Also the effect
at 1:09 of the Cziffra, and the quite different treatment by "H." Eh?
Then there is also the a minor that I spoke of earlier...
SE.
Henk van Tuijl
"Steve Emerson" <eme...@nospamsonic.net> schreef in bericht
news:emersn-D47447....@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net...
Steve, I agree with you. The differences between Hatto and Cziffra are
not merely a matter of engineering.
Henk
Andrys Basten
dk <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > The phrasing and articulation are different in
>> > some of the later waltzes. Some of the waltzes
>> > also sound slowed down.
>>
>> Upon further listening, the "Hatto" Chopin Waltzes
>> did not all come from Cziffra's marvelous hands.
>>
>> Listen for instance to no. 1 op. 18, no. 16 in A
>> flat, and no. 17 in E flat (which is no. 19 in the
>> "Hatto" set). The first two are clearly by Cziffra,
>> while the latter is not.
And no. 3, which is heard at about 37% of the hour at
http://www.veledan.com/hatto/Joyce_Hatto_interview.mp3
(I don't have the others) is not only slower, but less
impulsive and more personal with more emphasis with bass
on supporting the harmonies. Cziffra's is missing some
notes and speeds up on phrases, no?
The 2nd notes going up in the first portion are heard
in hers but barely in his. (There are weird phase changes
and possible edits in the Hatto-pianist (H-p) track. The
H-p playing is incredibly personal and spontanenous
without being too wilful (which Cziffra sometimes is on
this). If the other waltzes are like this, I really want
the orignal CD.
The Chopin concertos released by W-BC were by the book
and staid, and this is quite different. I also liked very
much a mazurka I heard. But, I'd be surprised if this
#3 waltz is the same as on the Cziffra recording on Amazon.
No idea about the other 5.
- A
>> For easy reference, snippets of all Cziffra Waltzes
>> may be found here:http://tinyurl.com/2zybe6.
>>
>
>To the best of my hearing ability the first 6 "Hatto"
>Waltzes are clearly by Cziffra (IMHO). I hope I don't
>need a new pair of ears -- where would I get them ?!?
>
>His touch, phrasing and articulation are unmistakable,
>even through BC's tempi manipulations.
>
>Time comparisons listed below are for the first minute,
>and computed in my head, so only approximate
>
>1. Waltz No.1 In E Flat, Op.18 4% faster
>2. Waltz No.2 In A Flat, Op.34 No.1 15% slower
>3. Waltz No.3 In A Minor, Op.34 No.2 25% slower!
>4. Waltz No.4 In F, Op.34 No.3 12% slower
>5. Waltz No.5 In A Flat, Op. 42 8% slower
>6. Waltz No.6 In D Flat, Op.64 No.1 4% slower at 1 min, but faster at
>35 sec!
Andrys Basten
Andrys Basten <and...@panix.com> wrote:
> And no. 3, which is heard at about 37% of the hour at
> http://www.veledan.com/hatto/Joyce_Hatto_interview.mp3
> . . .
Just wanted to add that near the opening, Bax conductor
Handley talks with Murray Khouri about the actual Hatto's
too-free handling of the solo part and the difficulty with
being able to follow her for a concerto, but that she had
studied it longer than they and he felt he finally understood
what she was trying to do and told his resistant orchestra to
follow her. This is followed by an excerpt and, to my ears,
the results in that brief extract, are quite beautiful
and not the playing of someone who, in Handley's statement
Feb. 28, this year, "couldn't really play rhythmically."
But I read that she didn't follow all the dynamic markings
nor play all the notes as written, so who knows. But it's
an intriguing excerpt. He says she had "marvelous fingers"
and could get around anything and could be an "electrifying"
player in solo work. What a travesty that she wound up this
way.
The excerpts by Hatto-pianists that come after 40%
marker (the earlier part is almost all talk) are very
well-chosen. I hope there'll be a way to find out who
actually played them.
On the tape, Hatto says that W-BC was always criticizing
her, and I wonder if he decided he'd rather release recordings
by others since what she was doing in her later years just
wasn't working. But, how could she go along with that, which
she must have. More incredible than fiction, but in fiction
you ultimately get answers.
- A
Andrys Basten
Alan Cooper <amco...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
>...try
>http://www.mydatabus.com/public/amcooper/z/HattoChopinWaltzes.zip , which
>was working again when I checked it a few minutes ago. My limit is 1GB per
>day, which means only 10 downloads in this case. If you continue to have
>difficulty, e-mail me privately so I can send you a CD. I think you'll
>find the performances interesting.
>
>AC
Thanks, Alan. Was able to get this one (1 of 10 downloaders today).
I was unable to at the other site.
Andrys Basten
Paul Goldstein <pgol...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>Thanks for posting these, Alan. I'm listening to them now. The
>performances have much more personality and interest than the other "Hatto"
>Chopin I heard (Ballades, Sonata No. 1 e.g.). To me, it sounds like a
>contemporary reinterpretation of these over-familiar pieces by a pianist
>with great fingers and a light touch. Many of the waltzes are
>reinterpreted to sound more like melancholy Mazurkas.
I've heard only the 2 waltzes on that 1-hr audio interview I mentioned,
but your "like melancholy Mazurkas" is a really apt description for the
A minor. The beautiful legato and sense of timing plus shading of
dynamics (in short secondary phrases where others just play the notes)
and attention to length and tone of important notes is unusual. Glad
the other waltzes apparently may come from the same pianist. My copy
just finished downloading, so I can finally hear all of them (and
I'm not normally a fan of the waltzes).
Here's to finding out who it is.
- A
So far (1-7), they
>all sound like the work of a single pianist.
>
>I have no idea who it is, though. It's definitely not a recording I am familiar
>with (old classics like Rubinstein, Lipatti, Malcuzynski; also Katsaris).
>
O
<dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
Of course! Joyce Hatto couldn't play them as fast as Cziffra!
-Owen
MrT
> > The phrasing and articulation are different in
> > some of the later waltzes. Some of the waltzes
> > also sound slowed down.
>
> Of course! Joyce Hatto couldn't play them as fast as Cziffra!
With Barrington-Coupe's Magical Speed Fluctuator, she could play
anything...
Best,
MrT
MrT
> I've heard only the 2 waltzes on that 1-hr audio interview I mentioned,
> but your "like melancholy Mazurkas" is a really apt description for the
> A minor.
I don't find it melancholy but it is evocativa, old-world, very
charming... exactly how I would describe the Cziffra set. In fact, I
think I did describe it thus in these same pages way back when. It is
one of the waltz sets that I return to frequently, probably the one I
love the most.
It is incredible, even shocking, that Barrington-Coupe decided to
steal from one of the great sets and even within those, from such a
characteristic player. The equivalent in jazz would be to rip off
Monk, Tatum, Tristano or Duke Ellington.
Best,
MrT
Steve Emerson
"dk" <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Waltzes are clearly by Cziffra (IMHO). [...]
No. 1 could be Cziffra's. Hate to say it, but I'm sure No. 2 isn't. Nor
No. 3. In No. 3, compare "Hatto" during 2:09-2:25 with the comparable
Cziffra section, 1:40-1:54. Particularly the pair of chords at the tail
of those seconds: 2:23 in H., 1:52 in C.
As MrT says, this is tiring work. That's as far as I got.
If you want something really numbing, compare Hatto's Chopin 4th
Ballade, Peter Lemken has it on his site, with Wendy Chen's. These are
more similar than Cziffra/Hatto waltzes 2, 3, and the a minor. I would
almost call Chen/Hatto astoundingly similar. Yet ultimately they seem
not to be the same. Concurrence on all of those points from several
reliable sources including one of the computer modelers.
SE.
> His touch, phrasing and articulation are unmistakable,
> even through BC's tempi manipulations. [...]
Henk van Tuijl
In Hatto's Op. 18 there is around second 29-45 an ornament in the right
hand that cannot be found in Cziffra and many other performances I have
tried. It can be found however in Harasiewicz's interpretation on
Amazon. I have ordered the Harasiewicz Chopin CDs to compare the rest.
Henk
MrT
> No. 1 could be Cziffra's. Hate to say it, but I'm sure No. 2 isn't. Nor
> No. 3. In No. 3, compare "Hatto" during 2:09-2:25 with the comparable
> Cziffra section, 1:40-1:54. Particularly the pair of chords at the tail
> of those seconds: 2:23 in H., 1:52 in C.
>
> As MrT says, this is tiring work. That's as far as I got.
>
things"...
> If you want something really numbing, compare Hatto's Chopin 4th
> Ballade, Peter Lemken has it on his site, with Wendy Chen's. These are
> more similar than Cziffra/Hatto waltzes 2, 3, and the a minor. I would
> almost call Chen/Hatto astoundingly similar. Yet ultimately they seem
> not to be the same. Concurrence on all of those points from several
> reliable sources including one of the computer modelers.
I think I'm going to pass on the Ballade... but we'll get to the
bottom of the waltzes in a week or two, tops.
Best,
MrT
Cecile
>
> In Hatto's Op. 18 there is around second 29-45 an ornament in the
> right hand that cannot be found in Cziffra and many other
> performances I have tried. It can be found however in Harasiewicz's
> interpretation on Amazon. I have ordered the Harasiewicz Chopin CDs
> to compare the rest.
> Henk
The first waltz Op. 18 is definitely not the Harasiewicz version from my
LP, Philips 6580 003 (no date, I bought it in 1976). Certain
staccato/legato notes, ornaments etc. are different.
Here's the first track from the LP:
http://download.yousendit.com/DA76ECDB59F05281
or
http://www.yousendit.com/download/QlVnK3BLU1BrYUEwTVE9PQ
I have to compare the other waltzes, but after this weekend... and
another thing: there are only 19 waltzes on the LP.
--
Cecile
MrT
interpretation. I confess I continue to hear Cziffra in waltzes 1-6,
someone else (let's say Rubinstein) in 7 to 10, Cziffra again in 11
and the A minor posthumous waltz, and the rest I haven't listened to
closely enough.
Best,
MrT
dk
Very interesting!
This is consistent with my own impressions.
dk
dk
> On Apr 6, 11:06 am, and...@panix.com (Andrys Basten) wrote:
>
> > I've heard only the 2 waltzes on that 1-hr audio interview I mentioned,
> > but your "like melancholy Mazurkas" is a really apt description for the
> > A minor.
>
> I don't find it melancholy but it is evocativa, old-world, very
> charming... exactly how I would describe the Cziffra set. In fact, I
> think I did describe it thus in these same pages way back when. It is
> one of the waltz sets that I return to frequently, probably the one I
> love the most.
Bingo!
It makes minced meat of Cortot and Lipatti ;-)
dk
Henk van Tuijl
"Cecile" <weste...@NOSPAM.demon.nl> schreef in bericht
news:4616a145$0$323$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl...
Hello Cecile, many thanks for the URLs!! You are right. The "Hatto" Op.
18 is definitely not the Harasiewicz version from the download. There
are too many differences.
Best,
Henk
MrT
the Shebanova waltzes: no correspondence with Hatto.
Best,
MrT
Andrys Basten
Not #3 though. Steve and I agree wholeheartedly on that. There
are large differences that are basic, which I mentioned
in another note. (Was comparing against the Amazon Cziffra that
you sent us to.)
I haven't heard the rest yet though...
Andrys Basten
This has to be one of the most 'sought after' pianists today :-)
By the way the BCC Radio "Front Row" for Friday has an interesting 1/2 hr
broadcast on the Hatto story with several interviews and samples and
it's an interesting one. I link to it at
http://www.andrys.com/hatto.html#news and the link will change by Monday
when they do the new daily broadcast. Nothing on The Ongoing Hunt though.
MrT
> Not #3 though. Steve and I agree wholeheartedly on that. There
> are large differences that are basic, which I mentioned
> in another note. (Was comparing against the Amazon Cziffra that
> you sent us to.)
Don't underestimate the deviousness of Barrington-Coupe's Magical
Speed Fluctuator... some of the things he has done to create Hatto's
Debussy are hard to believe.
Best,
MrT
Andrys Basten
So I've read! However, the basic handling of legato, timing between
notes, emphasis, and use of bass to stress harmonic beauty, are different
from the Cziffra in the Amazon set.
But I haven't heard the other 5 in that first 6 mentioned, so they
may well be Cziffra.
Matthew B. Tepper
be typed in news:1175952497.5...@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:
He's not merely a crook, but a CLEVER crook. But ultimately less clever than
some of those he was trying to cheat, which means his fall is so much greater
-- and so much more entertaining.
But you know, even though I still want him to pay the full legal consequences
for his actions, I do pity him. But only just a bit.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Harrington/Coy is a gay wrestler who won't come out of the closet
MrT
> He's not merely a crook, but a CLEVER crook. But ultimately less clever than
> some of those he was trying to cheat, which means his fall is so much greater
> -- and so much more entertaining.
>
> But you know, even though I still want him to pay the full legal consequences
> for his actions, I do pity him. But only just a bit.
In another group, somebody quoted from a letter by B-C regarding his
Concert Artist cassettes of Chopin mazurkas by "Cortot" (supposedly,
the recorded but never issued 1957 set). He says that he spent
hundreds of hours cleaning up the numerous tapes he got as part of
some deal... Guess what, the oily blarney is totally recognizable.
Allan Evans thinks that B-C's recreation of Cortot may have been a
dress rehearsal for the Hatto hoax. I have no doubt that B-C knows how
to work with sound... in fact, he's an expert, albeit of the wrong
sort. And he knows piano music and piano recordings.
Now, given the number of pianists that he used to create Hatto's
legacy, I have little doubt that he had accomplices. Yesterday, Farhan
identified some Liszt paraphrases by Alberto Reyes on Connoisseur
Society? How many people know the Reyes recordings? Very few.
Barrington-Coupe has got to have had assistance in the game.
Best,
MrT
Alan Cooper
I agree on this point too, although I have to say that folks like Mario, Steve, Andrys,
and Dan undoubtedly have better ears and more experience than I do. One small point that
I'd like to restate is that "Hatto's" inclusion of #20 could be significant. Now I
suppose that it could have been taken from a different source than all the rest of the
Waltzes, but in case it wasn't, it might be worthwhile to check out the few other complete
recordings that include it. I'm thinking especially of Ohlsson and Sterczynski. I did
listen to the substantial samples on Roberto Metro's web site, and they did not sound to
me like "Hatto." But perhaps someone else should give them a listen, too.
AC
MrT
> I agree on this point too, although I have to say that folks like Mario, Steve, Andrys,
> and Dan undoubtedly have better ears and more experience than I do. One small point that
> I'd like to restate is that "Hatto's" inclusion of #20 could be significant. Now I
> suppose that it could have been taken from a different source than all the rest of the
> Waltzes, but in case it wasn't, it might be worthwhile to check out the few other complete
> recordings that include it. I'm thinking especially of Ohlsson and Sterczynski. I did
> listen to the substantial samples on Roberto Metro's web site, and they did not sound to
> me like "Hatto." But perhaps someone else should give them a listen, too.
>
Everyone and his cousin has recorded at least some waltzes. A clever
guy like B-C could make a salad out of many different recordings. Then
there are schools of playing Chopin; guys from the same school sound
similar. The school of Pops Rubinstein and the school of Cziffra,
loosely speaking, could encompass dozens of pianists. In Poland alone
they have such dozens... Whenever I turn on the great Kultura channel
from Poland, I learn the name of some fine pianist I've never heard
of, together with more famous ones. The other day I caught a concert
of the late Sultanov when he was a mere kid.
As to Ohlsson, I would rule him out. I don't hear a trace of Ohlsson's
style in any of these waltzes. Besides, his cycle for Arabesque has a
very distinctive piano sound that is absent in Hatto. I don't know
anything about Sterczynski.
For now I would not dare declare anything as solved. The waveforms
that Steve kindly posted are deeply disturbing, Jeeves.
Best,
MrT
dk
> "MrT" <symbiotr...@yahoo.com> appears to have caused the following letters to
> be typed innews:1175952497.5...@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Apr 7, 3:20 pm, and...@panix.com (Andrys Basten) wrote:
> >> Not #3 though. Steve and I agree wholeheartedly on that. There are large
> >> differences that are basic, which I mentioned in another note. (Was
> >> comparing against the Amazon Cziffra that you sent us to.)
>
> > Don't underestimate the deviousness of Barrington-Coupe's Magical Speed
> > Fluctuator... some of the things he has done to create Hatto's Debussy are
> > hard to believe.
>
> He's not merely a crook, but a CLEVER crook. But ultimately less clever than
> some of those he was trying to cheat, which means his fall is so much greater
> -- and so much more entertaining.
>
> But you know, even though I still want him to pay the full legal consequences
> for his actions, I do pity him. But only just a bit.
Your charity and sentimentality are misplaced and misguided.
dk
dk
> Now, given the number of pianists that he used to create Hatto's
> legacy, I have little doubt that he had accomplices. Yesterday, Farhan
> identified some Liszt paraphrases by Alberto Reyes on Connoisseur
> Society? How many people know the Reyes recordings? Very few.
Tom Deacon, Peter Lemken, Samir Golescu, Steve Emerson, Jed
Distler and Simon Roberts for instance.
Pick your choice! ;-)
dk
dk
> and...@panix.com (Andrys Basten) wrote innews:ev85qm$ouj$1...@reader2.panix.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <1175910100.126432.238...@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> > dk <dan.ko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>On Apr 6, 1:45 pm, "MrT" <symbiotr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> Thank you, Cecile. As you point out Harasiewicz's is very different
> >>> interpretation. I confess I continue to hear Cziffra in waltzes 1-6,
> >>> someone else (let's say Rubinstein) in 7 to 10, Cziffra again in 11
> >>> and the A minor posthumous waltz, and the rest I haven't listened to
> >>> closely enough.
>
> >>Very interesting!
>
> >>This is consistent with my own impressions.
>
> > Not #3 though. Steve and I agree wholeheartedly on that. There
> > are large differences that are basic, which I mentioned
> > in another note. (Was comparing against the Amazon Cziffra that
> > you sent us to.)
>
> I agree on this point too, although I have to say that folks like Mario, Steve, Andrys,
> and Dan undoubtedly have better ears and more experience than I do. One small point that
> I'd like to restate is that "Hatto's" inclusion of #20 could be significant. Now I
> suppose that it could have been taken from a different source than all the rest of the
> Waltzes, but in case it wasn't, it might be worthwhile to check out the few other complete
> recordings that include it. I'm thinking especially of Ohlsson and Sterczynski. I did
> listen to the substantial samples on Roberto Metro's web site, and they did not sound to
> me like "Hatto." But perhaps someone else should give them a listen, too.
I checked Ohlsson's Waltzes (samples on Amazon) and
they are very different.
dk
Matthew B. Tepper
Who could possibly do such a thing? A self-proclaimed pianophile, perhaps,
who enjoys one-upping people (you note I don't say "his friends") with his
presumed knowledge of lots of obscure pianists. It wouldn't help if he had
contacts in "the biz," at that.
In return for this assistance, Mr. X would of course require something from
Barrington-Crook -- a share in the profits, perhaps? And that would give
him the strongest incentive to tout the "Hatto" recordings endlessly.
Hmm, I wonder who such a person might be. Do you have any ideas?
dk
> "MrT" <symbiotr...@yahoo.com> appears to have caused the following letters
> to be typed innews:1175963707.5...@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:
Tom Deacon? ;-)
dk
MrT
> Hmm, I wonder who such a person might be. Do you have any ideas?
>
I suspect Jaune Tom...
Best,
MrT
dk
> In article <1175952497.548039.257...@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
>
> MrT <symbiotr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 7, 3:20 pm, and...@panix.com (Andrys Basten) wrote:
> >> Not #3 though. Steve and I agree wholeheartedly on that. There
> >> are large differences that are basic, which I mentioned
> >> in another note. (Was comparing against the Amazon Cziffra that
> >> you sent us to.)
>
> >Don't underestimate the deviousness of Barrington-Coupe's Magical
> >Speed Fluctuator... some of the things he has done to create Hatto's
> >Debussy are hard to believe.
>
> So I've read! However, the basic handling of legato, timing between
> notes, emphasis, and use of bass to stress harmonic beauty, are different
> from the Cziffra in the Amazon set.
>
> But I haven't heard the other 5 in that first 6 mentioned, so they
> may well be Cziffra.
I listened again to #3 with my morning ears, and I
must admit it does not sound anymore like Cziffra ;-)
In particular, the crispness of Cziffra's articulation
does not seem to be there as in the other waltzes 1-2
and 4-6.
It is an interesting question however how extensive
BC's editing may have been. If one goes at it note by
note, rather than merely stretching or accelerating
entire phrases, the end results could be so different
from the original that any similarity may no longer be
detectable by the ear alone. The wonders of DSP are
truly endless.
dk
ckho...@ckhowell.com
> BC's editing may have been. If one goes at it note by
> note, rather than merely stretching or accelerating
> entire phrases, the end results could be so different
> from the original that any similarity may no longer be
> detectable by the ear alone. The wonders of DSP are
> truly endless.
>
individually on each and then piece it all together to make musically
plausible results would take years.
I'm pretty sure that when the source turns up it'll be fairly
recognizable, just a bit faster or slower and a different sound
picture.
Christopher Howell
MrT
> But how many notes are there in the Chopin waltzes? To intervene
> individually on each and then piece it all together to make musically
> plausible results would take years.
> I'm pretty sure that when the source turns up it'll be fairly
> recognizable, just a bit faster or slower and a different sound
> picture.
>
distort perception. I did some experiments with a Rubinstein waltz and
the results are quite strange. The interval, the most basic unit, can
be perceived differently. Andrew Rose had an equalization curve full
of ups and downs that illustrated this point. You can try it yourself.
You don't even need to modify each individual note.
Best,
MrT
Matthew B. Tepper
> On Apr 7, 8:38 pm, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hmm, I wonder who such a person might be. Do you have any ideas?
>>
>
> I suspect Jaune Tom...
Don't eat the yellow snow....
Andrys Basten
dk <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Apr 7, 6:33 am, and...@panix.com (Andrys Basten) wrote:
>> So I've read! However, the basic handling of legato, timing between
>> notes, emphasis, and use of bass to stress harmonic beauty, are different
>> from the Cziffra in the Amazon set.
>>
>> But I haven't heard the other 5 in that first 6 mentioned, so they
>> may well be Cziffra.
>
>I listened again to #3 with my morning ears, and I
>must admit it does not sound anymore like Cziffra ;-)
One must never be without at least 2 sets of ears!
>In particular, the crispness of Cziffra's articulation
>does not seem to be there as in the other waltzes 1-2
>and 4-6.
>
>It is an interesting question however how extensive
>BC's editing may have been. If one goes at it note by
>note, rather than merely stretching or accelerating
>entire phrases, the end results could be so different
>from the original that any similarity may no longer be
>detectable by the ear alone. The wonders of DSP are
>truly endless.
It's actually very hard to edit into a more
quietly played (more introspective) and even more stable
note pattern because, judging from what we've now heard,
listening closely for differences and similarities, the
edits made between moving notes would be pretty noticeable.
To lengthen the longer notes and maintain continuous
beautiful tone w/o producing weird extraneous sounds would
be extremely difficult.
But W-BC was definitely a mix and match guy as far as
how many players are involved in any one CD !
- A
>
>
>dk
>
Steve Emerson
Alan Cooper <amco...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
> I agree on this point too, although I have to say that folks like
> Mario, Steve, Andrys, and Dan undoubtedly have better ears and more
> experience than I do.
Not I, sir, include me out.
> One small point that I'd like to restate is
> that "Hatto's" inclusion of #20 could be significant. Now I suppose
> that it could have been taken from a different source than all the
> rest of the Waltzes, but in case it wasn't, it might be worthwhile to
> check out the few other complete recordings that include it. I'm
> thinking especially of Ohlsson and Sterczynski. I did listen to the
> substantial samples on Roberto Metro's web site, and they did not
> sound to me like "Hatto." But perhaps someone else should give them
> a listen, too.
I listened to a few and I thought the playing was pretty similar to the
"Hatto" but was not the source. Attractive work, I thought. Can't seem
to find the disc for sale. His a-minor posthumous waltz was especially
nice, at least the 43 seconds of it on the site.
You're right that there seem to be very few recordings of #20. However
-- don't know if this is where you located the Roberto Metro lead -- but
the list of complete recordings at the Albany.edu site is not entirely
reliable or current. Example, there are two Bunin sets, not one. There
is also a non-obscure Leonskaja set that isn't listed (Teldec CD). The
early Perlemuter has now in fact appeared on CD (I found a few samples
and didn't think it was a candidate).
Interesting that the "Hatto stablemate" Fiorentino recorded two sets.
Anybody know these?
And per the Albany site, there is a second Cziffra set predating the
EMI; Philips, with just the basic 14 waltzes.
SE.
dk
It wouldn't take years for someone who really knows how to
do it. It is a hierarchical, top-down pruning process. One
does not have to touch every note individually.
First shape the overall performance, then phrase by phrase,
then touch a few individual notes for the right intonation,
attack and accent. Voila!
dk
dk
> "MrT" <symbiotr...@yahoo.com> appears to have caused the following letters to
> be typed innews:1175971927....@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Apr 7, 8:38 pm, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> Hmm, I wonder who such a person might be. Do you have any ideas?
>
> > I suspect Jaune Tom...
>
> Don't eat the yellow snow....
Jaune Tom has been dead for years.
Rumor has it he was run over by
a truck driven by Jeremy Cook.
A hit and run, cold blooded
murder. The only reason you
folks have not heard about it
is that Truman Capote was on
vacation.
Some day I should make time to
lay a wreath of flowers on his
tombstone in Catskill, NY.
dk
dk
> In article <Xns990B8844288F0amcooperoptonline...@69.28.186.158>,
Was Fiorentino also a WBC wife?
Thx,
dk
dk
> It's actually very hard to edit into a more
> quietly played (more introspective) and even more stable
> note pattern because, judging from what we've now heard,
> listening closely for differences and similarities, the
> edits made between moving notes would be pretty noticeable.
>
> To lengthen the longer notes and maintain continuous
> beautiful tone w/o producing weird extraneous sounds would
> be extremely difficult.
Not hard at all with the right software.
dk
dk
> I have been doing a bit of work on Waltz 7. I hate to say this, but I
> sense a strong smell of ... Rubinstein! I don't have the Rubinstein
> stereo waltzes loaded on my computer. Am I going crazy? From the first
> few bars the smell was calling... Can someone check?
It certainly sounds like a warm and fuzzy performance,
totally unlike Cziffra.
dk
dk
> In article <1175972272.799505.6...@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
>
> dk <dan.ko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 7, 6:33 am, and...@panix.com (Andrys Basten) wrote:
> >> So I've read! However, the basic handling of legato, timing between
> >> notes, emphasis, and use of bass to stress harmonic beauty, are different
> >> from the Cziffra in the Amazon set.
>
> >> But I haven't heard the other 5 in that first 6 mentioned, so they
> >> may well be Cziffra.
>
> > I listened again to #3 with my morning ears, and I
> > must admit it does not sound anymore like Cziffra ;-)
>
> One must never be without at least 2 sets of ears!
Make that 3 for tie breaking, plus an
additional waterproof pair for swimming.
dk
Simon Roberts
Emerson says...
>And per the Albany site, there is a second Cziffra set predating the
>EMI; Philips, with just the basic 14 waltzes.
That's been on CD at least twice, once on Philips (in a box with some other
Chopin recordings of his) and once as a release in that ugly short-lived red and
blue cardboard budget series that French Decca put out a few years ago, filled
out with the Berceuse and a Nocturne. Not sure about current availability,
though (and not having been able to download Hatto I can't say anything useful
re whether this recording was raided too; not sure I could say anything useful
if I *did* have Hatto...).
Simon
Peter Lemken
> It wouldn't take years for someone who really knows how to
> do it. It is a hierarchical, top-down pruning process. One
> does not have to touch every note individually.
>
> First shape the overall performance, then phrase by phrase,
> then touch a few individual notes for the right intonation,
> attack and accent. Voila!
I disagree. Whatever you can do in the horizontal line, it is impossible to
touch up a finished tape in its vertical sense, i.e. shaping of chords,
overall resonance of pedal etc.
Peter Lemken
Berlin
Peter Lemken
Extremely hard, even with ProTools or TripleDAT, even more so for a
technically less than literate person. Understanding software for audio
processing on even a semi-professional level takes years of dedication and
tons of knowledge about anything audio.
MrT
> Extremely hard, even with ProTools or TripleDAT, even more so for a
> technically less than literate person. Understanding software for audio
> processing on even a semi-professional level takes years of dedication and
> tons of knowledge about anything audio.
>
However, Barrington-Coupe has proved very adept at using his own
Magical Speed Fluctuator. He can throw you off the track with a very
simple device. He fooled all the reviewers, for example. As far as I
know, he used MSF combined with equalization and filtering, though I
do remember somebody commenting on the fixing of some isolated notes.
I am curious to see what he did with Mussorgsky's Pictures, more
precisely whether he dared make a salad with pictures taken from
different recordings.
Best,
MrT
Phil Caron
>
> In particular, the crispness of Cziffra's articulation
> does not seem to be there as in the other waltzes 1-2
> and 4-6.
>
listen to music more attentatively. A good thing, I'd say. It's nice to
see people enjoying in detail Cziffra's excellent work in Chopin's waltzes.
- Phil Caron
dk
Yes you can -- with the right software.
dk
dk
WBC had over 30 years of experience as a professional record producer,
not to mention an exceedingly devious mind. I find very surprising he
did
not think about removing the identification information from the CDs
he
used as source material.
dk
dk
Do you suspect him of mixing pictures from the Hermitage and the
Louvre?
dk
Peter Lemken
Which is still being developed, right?
Peter Lemken
> On Apr 8, 12:09 pm, spam.for....@buerotiger.de (Peter Lemken) wrote:
>> Extremely hard, even with ProTools or TripleDAT, even more so for a
>> technically less than literate person. Understanding software for audio
>> processing on even a semi-professional level takes years of dedication and
>> tons of knowledge about anything audio.
>>
>
> However, Barrington-Coupe has proved very adept at using his own
> Magical Speed Fluctuator.
Let me put it like that: What Barrington-Coupe sold as the CA final products
incorporated this kind of manipulation. Whether he did all this by himself
is still an open question.
MrT
> Let me put it like that: What Barrington-Coupe sold as the CA final products
> incorporated this kind of manipulation. Whether he did all this by himself
> is still an open question.
>
"B-C", take that to mean "whoever created the fake Hattos".
Best,
MrT
Peter Lemken
> On Apr 8, 3:09 am, spam.for....@buerotiger.de (Peter Lemken) wrote:
>>
>> Extremely hard, even with ProTools or TripleDAT, even more so for a
>> technically less than literate person. Understanding software for audio
>> processing on even a semi-professional level takes years of dedication and
>> tons of knowledge about anything audio.
>
> WBC had over 30 years of experience as a professional record producer,
Yes, and no experience as a sound engineer working on sophisticated,
industrial usage digital equipment.
> not to mention an exceedingly devious mind. I find very surprising he did
> not think about removing the identification information from the CDs he
> used as source material.
You are victim of a misunderstanding there. He did not strip any information
from any CD, it was recognized by the track lengths and arrangement of
tracks on the final CD.
dk
> On Apr 8, 6:45 pm, "dk" <dan.ko...@gmail.com> wrote:> > I am curious to see what he did with Mussorgsky's Pictures, more
> > > precisely whether he dared make a salad with pictures taken from
> > > different recordings.
>
> > Do you suspect him of mixing pictures from the Hermitage and the
> > Louvre?
>
> Arts in Croydon might produce... from Vermeer to Emil Nolde. More
> modestly, I was thinking of a B-C collage job on Mussorgsky...
Should I put the smileys back into the text?
dk
MrT
> Should I put the smileys back into the text?
No. Professional ironists like us iron without smileys. We just iron.
Best,
MrT