Re: Hatto hoax?
Paul Ilechko
> After hearing so much about Joyce Hatto, I started purchasing some of
> her recordings. While nothing I have heard is bad (in fact, I am glad I
> bought these CDs), I have noticed something eerie: that the pianist
> playing the Mozart sonatas _cannot be_ the pianist playing Prokofiev
> _or_ the pianist playing Albeniz. I have the distinct feeling of being
> the victim of some sort of hoax. Does anyone else share these feelings?
> What is actually known about the artist and the circumstances? I looked
> on the web and all I can find is some sort of official story, nothing
> independent.
On what grounds do you make your assertion that they cannot be the same
pianist ?
Paul Ilechko
> After hearing so much about Joyce Hatto, I started purchasing some of
> her recordings. While nothing I have heard is bad (in fact, I am glad I
> bought these CDs), I have noticed something eerie: that the pianist
> playing the Mozart sonatas _cannot be_ the pianist playing Prokofiev
> _or_ the pianist playing Albeniz. I have the distinct feeling of being
> the victim of some sort of hoax. Does anyone else share these feelings?
> What is actually known about the artist and the circumstances? I looked
> on the web and all I can find is some sort of official story, nothing
> independent.
tomdeacon
horus_s...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On what grounds do you make your assertion that they cannot be the same
> > pianist ?
>
> I base it on my ears and my experience with the piano and of hearing
> many pianists in concert and on records. My conclusion is that
> something is weird. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I wanted to see what other
> listeners thought about this topic.
You are wrong.
I suggest that you trade in your ears for another set. Speak to DK
about that; he has friends in that business.
TD
J.Martin
I have the distinct feeling of being
> the victim of some sort of hoax. Does anyone else share these feelings?
>
At least one review that I've seen (I believe in Gramophone) mentioned
rumors of some kind of hoax in which someone else--perhaps one of
Hatto's student?--was responsible for the JH recordings, or parts of
them. The writer didn't give any source for this supposed rumor, and
didn't give it any credibility, either.
I certainly didn't find any reason to believe it. No pianist in
his/her right mind would go to all the trouble of recording brilliant
versions of the Prokofiev sonatas (the one JH disc I own) and then
allow them to be issued--to great praise--under someone else's name!
But then I'm not much for conspiracy theories in general...
Peter Lemken
He is obviously one of those loonies who thinks that the number of oddities
in connexion with Mrs. Hatto do not make sense.
Peter Lemken
Berlin
--
"Make me a sandwich!"
"Make a sandwich yourself."
"sudo Make me a sandwich!"
"OK."
elu...@freenet.de
Herr Lemken, it may be high time to stop your various comments casting
suspicions on Hatto's recordings. After the above nasty comment I think
it is high time to inform ALLE HERE in this group about certain facts
which will put your constant negative attitude in the correct light.
You wrote to Concert Artist a good while ago asking for information
since you were about to write an article about Miss Hatto. I guess you
meant to write a piece for this or another e-group as I never have seen
an article written for a German or other music magazine signed with
your name (maybe you use a pseudonym??). You received an answer from
Concert Artist with the date of March 4th, 2006, from which letter
(email) I have been authorised to make the following quotation (more
will be possible if you would like to re-read more of what you received
at a time when Joyce Hatto was still alive and trying to make all
efforts to give you information). Here is what you were offered by W.H.
Barrington-Coupe, husband and producer of Hatto's recordings:
-------------- start quotation ------------->
"I feel that as a keen and obviously enthusiastic lover of the piano
you would be interested to make the acquaintance of this women who
aroused such interest and comment. Miss Hatto accordingly would be
happy to meet you in Cambridge and talk over with you any aspect of her
playing, teaching, or recording work that you care to raise. She would
be equally pleased to discuss with you any aspect of piano technique
either with regard to your own playing or her own. She feels that as
she has made great personal efforts to make herself available in recent
months to a group of writers and musical journalists from various parts
of the world then you should have a similar opportunity. Alternatively.
you might care to attend an editing session and discuss her recordings
with one of the technicians responsible for so many of her sessions.
In addition, whilst you are in Cambridge, I would be able to show you
the recording facilities that we available. Furthermore, if your time
should permit, I would be very happy to arrange for you to visit a
"non-existent" church in Croydon and speak with the priest in charge of
it. That would occupy a full day going from Cambridge but I would do my
very best to accompany you myself or provide a member of staff to
accompany you.
If your time schedule allows you. Miss Hatto would raise no objections
to my inviting you to one of her recording sessions but, as she is
recovering from recent medical treatment this is not likely to be for
about six weeks. At the present time she is working on the Haydn
Sonatas but she is also preparing the Max Reger Telemann Variations and
Fugue and the complete Wagner-Liszt transcriptions. It is possible
that you would be more interested in this repertoire."
------------------- end of quotation --------------
E. Lumpe, Soest
her...@yahoo.com
Here is what you were offered by W.H.
> Barrington-Coupe, husband and producer of Hatto's recordings:
>
> -------------- start quotation ------------->
>
>
> ------------------- end of quotation --------------
>
> E. Lumpe, Soest
Unfortunately you failed to explain in what way you are privy to this
correspondence. Perhaps there's an explanation. Feel free to offer it.
BTW it's not terribly good form to publish someone else's mail - if
that's what it is.
I would be hugely interested why Mr Barrington-Coupe ("husband and
producer of Hatto's recordings" - makes you wonder what it's like to
have a recording for a wife) writes like an
English-as-a-second-language user.
Really, I'm in no way into these hoax / conspiracy theories, but your
contribution to this thread made me think again.
Also, when is Hatto's (or whomever's) Haydn to be released?
Herman
Josep Vilanova
> I certainly didn't find any reason to believe it. No pianist in
> his/her right mind would go to all the trouble of recording brilliant
> versions of the Prokofiev sonatas (the one JH disc I own) and then
> allow them to be issued--to great praise--under someone else's name!
> But then I'm not much for conspiracy theories in general...
Conspiracy theories? That's so ridiculous it would be funny if it
wasn't so pathetic. It reminds me of the conspiracy theorists that
think that Jimmy Hendrix is not dead and is hiding somewhere in Africa.
I suspect soon someone will say that the recordings of Hatto are done
by Pogorellich suffering with an multiple personality disorder.
j
David Fox
think what could make somebody immediately suspect the identity of the
artist given the circumstances. Many pianists have personalities that
vary greatly with repertoire. I have heard pianists seemingly
transform personalities within the space of one recital on countless
occasions. For example, would you suspect Alicia De Larrocha is two
different people based on her Schumann and her Albeniz? Or that Arrau
was two people based on his Beethoven and his Debussy? In this case,
the conspiracy theory makes less sense than the facts presented taken
at face value.
I am also surprised that the late artist and her coterie are/were so
bothered by these charges. If anything, they should take them as
indirect compliments in that certain people feel compelled to develop
such an elaborate (and impossibly fantastic) construct to deal with the
existence such of such a formidable, wide-ranging body of work. It's
akin to the "Liszt must have sold soul to the devil" school of
thought ("...clearly it's not possible for one person to play this
much this well"). For what it's worth, these bizarre theories are
doing more to enliven my curiosity to further exploration Ms. Hatto's
body of work than all of the unqualified praise I've previously read.
DF
Paul Ilechko
> Unfortunately you failed to explain in what way you are privy to this
> correspondence. Perhaps there's an explanation. Feel free to offer it.
Presumably you have a reason why you feel that you deserve this
explanation. I'm not really all that interested in what it is, though,
so please keep it to yourself.
> BTW it's not terribly good form to publish someone else's mail - if
> that's what it is.
I guess you failed to note the point where the previous poster said that
they were authorized to do so. And no, they don't have to prove that to
your satisfaction. Surprisingly, the world does not actually revolve
around you.
>
> I would be hugely interested why Mr Barrington-Coupe <snip idiocy> writes like an
> English-as-a-second-language user.
He doesn't (you seem to unaware of the difference between written and
spoken English), and I wonder how you could tell anyway? After all, you
appear to be unable to parse a simple sentence.
>
> Really, I'm in no way into these hoax / conspiracy theories, but your
> contribution to this thread made me think again.
A normal response would have been that it helped to clear things up.
> Also, when is Hatto's (or whomever's) Haydn to be released?
You seriously expect a response?
Josep Vilanova
>> I would be hugely interested why Mr Barrington-Coupe <snip idiocy> writes
>> like an
>> English-as-a-second-language user.
>
> He doesn't (you seem to unaware of the difference between written and
> spoken English), and I wonder how you could tell anyway? After all, you
> appear to be unable to parse a simple sentence.
It was definitely Pogorellich posing as Barrington-Coupe! Someone should
write an screenplay about that. Perhaps something between 'Psychosis' and '
What Ever Happened to Baby Jane?'
j
Walter Traprock
I know a while back I lamely complained about the lack of Dist.
for Hatto a while back, suggesting she didn't exist, and a mere
few days later there were like 80 Hatto CDs listed at MDT; so,
the Hatto-Cabal works fast to cover up it's tracks.
Josep Vilanova
On Jan 22, 8:58 pm, Walter Traprock <wetrapr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Josep Vilanova" <josepvilan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > I certainly didn't find any reason to believe it. No pianist in
> > > his/her right mind would go to all the trouble of recording brilliant
> > > versions of the Prokofiev sonatas (the one JH disc I own) and then
> > > allow them to be issued--to great praise--under someone else's name!
> > > But then I'm not much for conspiracy theories in general...
>
> > Conspiracy theories? That's so ridiculous it would be funny if it
> > wasn't so pathetic. It reminds me of the conspiracy theorists that
> > think that Jimmy Hendrix is not dead and is hiding somewhere in Africa.
> > I suspect soon someone will say that the recordings of Hatto are done
> > by Pogorellich suffering with an multiple personality disorder.I know a while back I lamely complained about the lack of Dist.
> for Hatto a while back, suggesting she didn't exist, and a mere
> few days later there were like 80 Hatto CDs listed at MDT; so,
> the Hatto-Cabal works fast to cover up it's tracks.
And at the same time, how many CDs has Pogorellich been able to issue?
None. Because he was busy recording all the Hatto ones. And why do you
think he shaved his hair? To be able to fit a Hatto wig! Now things
starting to be more clear...
j
Paul Ilechko
Well, a Barrington Coupe sounds rather like some obscure vintage car
that you might come across unexpectedly in a garage in Iowa while
hunting down an old Blues singer who disappeared from view in the early
sixties, just as he was on the verge of the big time; but in fact Mr.
William B-C not only exists but is in fact known from Hatto-free
contexts due to his co-founding of Triumph Records in 1960 with
legendary producer Joe Meek.
Henk van Tuijl
"David Fox" <davidf...@yahoo.com>
schreef in bericht
news:1169498125.0...@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
[snipped a few pertinent remarks]
> I am also surprised that the late
> artist and her coterie are/were so
> bothered by these charges. If
> anything, they should take them as
> indirect compliments in that certain
> people feel compelled to develop
> such an elaborate (and impossibly
> fantastic) construct to deal with the
> existence such of such a formidable,
> wide-ranging body of work. It's
> akin to the "Liszt must have sold soul
> to the devil" school of
> thought ("...clearly it's not possible
> for one person to play this
> much this well").
It seems to me that Ms. Hatto did take
her music very seriously, and that she
hoped others would do the same.
> For what it's worth, these bizarre
> theories are
> doing more to enliven my curiosity to
> further exploration Ms. Hatto's
> body of work than all of the
> unqualified praise I've previously
> read.
Lumpe's email proves that Ms. Hatto and
those around her believed in what they
were doing. I just ordered my first
Hatto CD (Debussy's etudes).
Henk
Peter Lemken
her...@yahoo.com
> >
> > I would be hugely interested why Mr Barrington-Coupe <snip idiocy> writes like an
> > English-as-a-second-language user.
>
> He doesn't (you seem to unaware of the difference between written and
> spoken English), and I wonder how you could tell anyway? After all, you
> appear to be unable to parse a simple sentence.
>
My good man, you don't know what you're talking about. I'll mention two
simple instances you failed to notice, being such an expert.
It's not really good English to refer to your wife (alive or deceased)
as "this women". I would hardly call "the recording facilities that we
available" great English either, and there are a couple of other
instances. No big deal. It just makes you wonder who wrote this.
Paul Ilechko
> Paul Ilechko wrote:
>
>>> I would be hugely interested why Mr Barrington-Coupe <snip idiocy> writes like an
>>> English-as-a-second-language user.
>> He doesn't (you seem to unaware of the difference between written and
>> spoken English), and I wonder how you could tell anyway? After all, you
>> appear to be unable to parse a simple sentence.
>>
> My good man, you don't know what you're talking about. I'll mention two
> simple instances you failed to notice, being such an expert.
>
> It's not really good English to refer to your wife (alive or deceased)
> as "this women".
Assuming that "women" is a typo for "woman", there is absolutely nothing
wrong with it in the context in which it is used.
> I would hardly call "the recording facilities that we
> available" great English either
No, I'd call it a typo. Probably by the person transcribing it, they
dropped a word.
alanwa...@aol.com
I believe Joyce Hatto existed. I attended one of her recitals in London
at the Wigmore Hall as a student (one of the terrible advantages of old
age) where she played predominantly Lizst. I was in awe of the
technique but did not much like the music (and still don't, thinking
much of Lizst somewhat overblown for the keyboard .despite the advocacy
of her, Mr Fiorentino and many others).
Vernon Handley, a conductor, thought she existed. He told me he was
astonished by her command of Bax Symphonic Variations, a difficult
piece for the soloist, so difficult in fact that the original dedicatee
chose to perform the slightly less difficult cut version because, I
suspect, some of the technicalities would have pushed the pianist
beyond their limit. Considerably beyond their limit, possibly.
The truly original version of Bax was resurrected by another famous
pianistic name, Patrick Piggott with which all of you pianoforte boys
and girls are undoubtedly familiar. No? Pupil of Nadia Boulanger,
among others. Head of Music BBC Midlands and whose music, if performed
at all today, is performed by Malcolm Binns, another famous pianistic
name undoubtedly known to one and all. No? (See Schumann).
Last year I attended the funeral of someone called Joyce Hatto. Next
to me sat a weeping lady who claimed to be one of her neighbours in
Royston, Hertfordshire, England and who clearly believed that at one
time Joyce Hatto had existed.
She might not have known about the pianoforte of course but I think Mr
Handley might.
Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
TareeDawg
news:1169487113.4...@51g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
He is presently working on a new improved Debussy module. Er, er .... sorry,
make that Ravel. Anyway, it wouldn't make any difference to some here, would
it?
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Ray H
Taree, NSW
TareeDawg
news:1169497177.5...@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
And many of Arrau's recordings are really Richter in disguise. And Brendel
really recorded much of Naida Cole's recordings. Crafty old bugger. That is
why she is taking up a medical career.
And I am sure I saw Elvis the other day, at our local shopping centre.
Ray H
Taree, NSW
ansermetniac
wrote:
And Ansermet's recordings were actually conducted by Deacon
Abbedd
JohnGavin
TareeDawg wrote:
> "Josep Vilanova" <josepv...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1169497177.5...@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >> I certainly didn't find any reason to believe it. No pianist in
> >> his/her right mind would go to all the trouble of recording brilliant
> >> versions of the Prokofiev sonatas (the one JH disc I own) and then
> >> allow them to be issued--to great praise--under someone else's name!
> >> But then I'm not much for conspiracy theories in general...
> >
> > Conspiracy theories? That's so ridiculous it would be funny if it
> > wasn't so pathetic. It reminds me of the conspiracy theorists that
> > think that Jimmy Hendrix is not dead and is hiding somewhere in Africa.
> > I suspect soon someone will say that the recordings of Hatto are done
> > by Pogorellich suffering with an multiple personality disorder.
>
>
>
Perhaps, provided Richter took a huge dose of lithium and a large glass
of prune juice first :)
Steve Emerson
"Henk van Tuijl" <hvt...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> I just ordered my first Hatto CD (Debussy's etudes).
Henk, I would be interested in reading your assessment of the disc, in
due time.
Thx,
SE.
Frank Berger
"Paul Ilechko" <pile...@patmedia.net> wrote in message
news:51k7naF...@mid.individual.net...
Bah. Just part of the conspiracy.
Frank Berger
"Josep Vilanova" <josepv...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1169497177.5...@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>> his/her right mind would go to all the trouble of recording brilliant
>> versions of the Prokofiev sonatas (the one JH disc I own) and then
>> allow them to be issued--to great praise--under someone else's name!
>> But then I'm not much for conspiracy theories in general...
>
> Conspiracy theories? That's so ridiculous it would be funny if it
> wasn't so pathetic. It reminds me of the conspiracy theorists that
> think that Jimmy Hendrix is not dead and is hiding somewhere in Africa.
He isn't?
> I suspect soon someone will say that the recordings of Hatto are done
> by Pogorellich suffering with an multiple personality disorder.
>
They aren't?
Philip Peters
> After hearing so much about Joyce Hatto, I started purchasing some of
> her recordings. While nothing I have heard is bad (in fact, I am glad I
> bought these CDs), I have noticed something eerie: that the pianist
> playing the Mozart sonatas _cannot be_ the pianist playing Prokofiev
> _or_ the pianist playing Albeniz. I have the distinct feeling of being
> the victim of some sort of hoax. Does anyone else share these feelings?
> What is actually known about the artist and the circumstances? I looked
> on the web and all I can find is some sort of official story, nothing
> independent.
>
>
> Seth
MusicWeb has a review of her Mozart set by someone whose name I now
forget (Alzheimer? Korsakow?) who quotes letters from JH to himself
about the Mozart recordings. You might want to read that. In another
review (of the Lili Kraus set; he compares Hatto favourably to Kraus. I
am of the opposite opinion and find Hatto's Mozart - I have the set -
diappointing, too *sweet*, so to speak).
Philip
>
Henk van Tuijl
"Steve Emerson" <eme...@nospamsonic.net>
schreef in bericht
news:emersn-CD562C....@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net...
Steve, I'll love writing it. Ms. Hatto
is completely unknown to me, and I have
no idea what to expect after Tom's
hyperboles and Peter's manifest
scepticism.
Best,
Henk
elu...@freenet.de
Peter Lemken schrieb:
> elu...@freenet.de wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> Thank you for this most invaluable insight.
>
>
> Peter Lemken
> Berlin
You are welcome! And many thanks that you took again the chance to
disclose your real self.
EL
Henk van Tuijl
"Wayne Reimer"
<wrdslremovethis濃pacbell.net> schreef
in bericht
news:MPG.201f685a4...@news.sf.sbcglobal.net...
>> In article
>> <45b5b403$0$332$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl>,
>> hvt...@xs4all.nl says...
> to sort of set the scene, I'm
> curious about which recordings of the
> Debussy etudes you know? Any you
> like (or don't like) in particular?
LOL!
I most often revisit Uchida, Jacobs and
Bavouzet - and probably prefer Bavouzet.
IIRC, I also have Beroff, Boffard,
Gieseking, Pelletier, Pollini, Rische
(sp?), Rouvier, Thiollier, Tririmo (sp?)
...
Henk
Len of MusicWeb
"Philip Peters" <phi...@p-peters.demon.nl> wrote in message
news:45b56ac0$0$338$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl...
horus_s...@yahoo.com schreef:
MusicWeb has a review of her Mozart set by someone whose name I now
forget (Alzheimer? Korsakow?) who quotes letters from JH to himself
about the Mozart recordings. You might want to read that. In another
review (of the Lili Kraus set; he compares Hatto favourably to Kraus. I
am of the opposite opinion and find Hatto's Mozart - I have the set -
diappointing, too *sweet*, so to speak).
Philip
>
The review in question was written by Christopher Howell who was one of the
first people to realise the importance of Joyce Hatto. The Mozart review is
to be found at
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/Jan07/Mozart_sonatas_Hatto_IP001052.htm
It is instructive to read all his reviews so I offer a selction at this link
http://www.google.com/search?q=hatto+Howell&domains=musicweb.uk.net&sitesearch=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.musicweb-international.com
I have been following the above thread with my usual disgust at its
impropriety and say to you that if you listen to Joyce Hatto's two handed
version of Ravel's La Valse you would have difficulty in finding any name
who might be able to play it other than Joyce herself - and no I did not
know her. I will, however be having lunch with William Barrington-Coupe on
Saturday should anyone wish to pass on their condolences.
Len
--
......................................................................
Len Mullenger
Founder: MusicWeb-International
The Internet CD review site
32,000 reviews read every day
www.musicweb-international.com
mobile: 07913 999009
You click with us and you may find we'll click with you.
-------------------------o0o--------------------------
MrT
Caro Josep, I beg to differ: the Hatto affair is material for Jorge
Luis Borges (he's dead, but I'm sure the ghost can manage words pretty
well). Tentative title: La secta de los 88.
Best,
MrT
Josep Vilanova
> I have been following the above thread with my usual disgust at its
> impropriety and say to you that if you listen to Joyce Hatto's two handed
> version of Ravel's La Valse you would have difficulty in finding any name
> who might be able to play it other than Joyce herself - and no I did not
> know her. I will, however be having lunch with William Barrington-Coupe on
> Saturday should anyone wish to pass on their condolences.
>
> Len
If he has been reading this thread (and other similar threads) I hope he
hasn't mistaken by comments by anything that was meant to be offensive to
Joyce Hatto or himself! I have just ordered the Mozart piano sonatas by her
and I am looking forward to order more CDs. Do give her my condolences.
j
Phil Caron
>
> If he has been reading this thread (and other similar threads) I hope he
> hasn't mistaken by comments by anything that was meant to be offensive to
> Joyce Hatto or himself! I have just ordered the Mozart piano sonatas by
> her
> and I am looking forward to order more CDs. Do give her my condolences.
>
impressed by recordings of Rachmaninoff's 1st sonata, Mussorgsky's Pictures,
and Liszt's 2nd Annee. The one that most sharply caught my attention was a
sampler, which included several Chopin etudes and Book 1 of Brahms' Paganini
variations. That warhorse material was superbly done, both technically and
interpretatively, and that, more than any zillions of adulatory posts, is
prompting further explorations from me, which will target core repertory for
the piano. (Which means at least for now that I won't have to endure more
endless hours of Iberia, Godowsky etudes, or Messiaen Regards.)
Sorry if I wasn't paying attention this past year or two, but would somebody
be so kind as to reiterate the preferred online channels through which
someone in the U.S. can purchase Joyce Hatto cds? Getting everything
ordered in the first pass is a plus. Thanks in advance.
Best regards,
Phil Caron
Henk van Tuijl
"Phil Caron" <vlad...@vermontel.net>
schreef in bericht
news:11695757...@r2d2.vermontel.net...
Crotchet seems to have the complete set
of available CDs.
Henk
Peter Lemken
The disclosure is incomplete, but I am sure that the honourable Mr.
Barrington-Coupe will be delighted to forward my private correspondence with
him to you in its entirety, if he hasn't done so already.
Don't worry, I wouldn't even dream of thinking that posting private and
confidential correspondence to a public newsgroup casts any diclosing light
on persons' integrity and real selves.
Ralph
Ralph
Josep Vilanova
On Jan 23, 8:17 pm, Ralph <NoS...@semqkz.net> wrote:
> Is it too late to reopen the Warren Commission?
>
> Ralph
Too late. Jimmy Carter may be available though. I think he likes
classical music. That should be a bonus in this case.
j
ansermetniac
<josepv...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Carter is busy rewriting the book of Genesis to fit his needs.
Abbedd
JohnGavin
Phil Caron wrote:
> >
(Which means at least for now that I won't have to endure more
> endless hours of Iberia, Godowsky etudes, or Messiaen Regards.)
>
>
>
> Phil Caron
How tastes vary! I'd take any of the above three over yet another
Pictures at an Exhibition anyday!!
Josep Vilanova
On Jan 23, 8:43 pm, "JohnGavin" <dagd...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Phil Caron wrote:(Which means at least for now that I won't have to endure more
>
> > endless hours of Iberia, Godowsky etudes, or Messiaen Regards.)
>
> > Best regards,
>
> > Phil CaronHow tastes vary! I'd take any of the above three over yet another
> Pictures at an Exhibition anyday!!
I think I may buy the Messiaen Regards once I've listened to the Mozart
sonatas. For what I've read of Joyce Hatto this is a work it may suit
her particularly well.
j
Len of MusicWeb
"Henk van Tuijl" <hvt...@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:45b65544$0$335$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl...
Crotchet seems to have the complete set
of available CDs.
Henk
They do but discs from MusicWeb are postfree and are sent out nsame day or
next day airmail by Concert Artist.
Regards
elu...@freenet.de
On 23 Jan., 20:14, spam.for....@buerotiger.de (Peter Lemken) wrote:
> elu...@freenet.de wrote:
>
> > Peter Lemken schrieb:
>
> >> elu...@freenet.de wrote:
>
> >> [...]
>
> >> Thank you for this most invaluable insight.
>
> >> Peter Lemken
> >> Berlin
>
> > You are welcome! And many thanks that you took again the chance to
> > disclose your real self.The disclosure is incomplete, but I am sure that the honourable Mr.
> Barrington-Coupe will be delighted to forward my private correspondence with
> him to you in its entirety, if he hasn't done so already.
>
> Don't worry, I wouldn't even dream of thinking that posting private and
> confidential correspondence to a public newsgroup casts any diclosing light
> on persons' integrity and real selves.
>
> Peter Lemken
> Berlin
Maybe you deliberately miss the point I was trying to make with my
message. Apart from the fact that I did not publish YOUR letter to
Concert Artist but only the raw idea of it and then their reply to you
(in excerpts) it may be made once again clear to you: YOU are one of
those who constantly spreads venomous accusations and assumptions or
what you declare to be the truth. On the basis of the fact that you
have been given ALL chances to revise your prejudices one wonders
really how you can go on with your little hobby. With regard to this
attitude I thought you had revealed your real self. You can't really
claim that your ways of acting in a public forum are still o.k. when
you had had the chance to get full evidence.
EL
her...@yahoo.com
Oh, great! "Assumptions of what you declare to be the truth" versus
"full evidence".
elu...@freenet.de
Her..., please do understand what I meant, and I easily I confess not
being so eloquent as you or others here. I could well write you
privately in German and clear the whole case especially for you if you
like me to.
I may be mistaken but I didn't see your name during the last flame
war......
EL
Peter Lemken
> Maybe you deliberately miss the point I was trying to make with my
> message.
Maybe. I consider your message pointless to quite an extent.
Seems like it's time to repost what I wrote a couple of months ago:
It's amazing: I've never said anything negative about Joyce Hatto as a
person, but as soon as that name turns up and some questions are asked,
people get vitriolic in their comments, start insults below the belt line
and NEVER answer any questions that I have.
No one has ever been able to confirm the existence of Mr. Köhler or answer
legitimate questions about the official biography, despite explicit
questions and hints as to some obvious misrepresentations in his 'official'
biography. Neither has anyone been able to explain how a big orchestra fits
into a tiny Cambridge studio and the question of those alleged live
recordings - which I have been unable to find anywhere - is turned into a
kind of vendetta against me as a person, of course leaving the legitimate
question as to the actual existence of those live recordings unanswered.
Ernst Lumpe contacted me years ago, asking me to take over Sergio
Fiorentino's management, since he considered me "an expert on pianists" (I
still have that fax) and was obviously disappointed at me turning down the
generous offer, since I was already busy enough building other pianists'
careers.
Seems like that was reason enough to put me on his personal hate list.
Oh well, I survived JBY and while Ernst and his honorable companion do a
really good job at mud flinging, they come in a distinct second and third to
JBY.
Bob Lombard
"Peter Lemken" <spam.f...@buerotiger.de> wrote in message
news:51pl6hF...@mid.individual.net...
>
> Oh well, I survived JBY and while Ernst and his honorable companion do
> a
> really good job at mud flinging, they come in a distinct second and
> third to
> JBY.
>
>
misspellings, is the purported efficiency of his legal team.
bl
Frank Berger
>
>> Maybe you deliberately miss the point I was trying to make with my
>> message.
>
> Maybe. I consider your message pointless to quite an extent.
>
> Seems like it's time to repost what I wrote a couple of months ago:
>
> It's amazing: I've never said anything negative about Joyce Hatto as a
> person, but as soon as that name turns up and some questions are asked,
> people get vitriolic in their comments, start insults below the belt line
> and NEVER answer any questions that I have.
>
> No one has ever been able to confirm the existence of Mr. Köhler or answer
> legitimate questions about the official biography, despite explicit
> questions and hints as to some obvious misrepresentations in his
> 'official'
> biography. Neither has anyone been able to explain how a big orchestra
> fits
> into a tiny Cambridge studio and the question of those alleged live
> recordings - which I have been unable to find anywhere - is turned into a
> kind of vendetta against me as a person, of course leaving the legitimate
> question as to the actual existence of those live recordings unanswered.
>
> Ernst Lumpe contacted me years ago, asking me to take over Sergio
> Fiorentino's management, since he considered me "an expert on pianists" (I
> still have that fax) and was obviously disappointed at me turning down the
> generous offer, since I was already busy enough building other pianists'
> careers.
>
I assume you meant, "helping other pianists to build their careers."
ne...@thump.org
wrote:
>
>Oh well, I survived JBY and while Ernst and his honorable companion do a
>really good job at mud flinging, they come in a distinct second and third to
>JBY.
What ever happened to JBY ? I know someone who met him in London a
while back but since then silence!
ne...@thump.org
<thorste...@vermontel.net> wrote:
>My lingering impression of J_Y's posts, other than the frequency of
>misspellings, is the purported efficiency of his legal team.
Imaginary legal team ... well he's gone to ground for good it seems. A
shame - a very fine pianist and a mine of experience and knowledge. I
hope he sorts out whatever troubles him so profoundly.
elu...@freenet.de
> Maybe you deliberately miss the point I was trying to make with my
> message.
>> Maybe. I consider your message pointless to quite an extent.
Alright, Herr Lemken, once again and most clear now I would hope: I
understand that you try to divert but let me please guide you back to
what you actually did a couple of times: when people here mentioned
their doubts re Hatto's work you busily joined with your usual little
remark that you doubt also and that you believe the recordings either
to be fakes or not being played by Hatto (which is more or less the
same).
Let me just remind you of one of your postings using your second (or
third?) ID "df5jt". Under the date of December, 10th, last year you
wrote the following:
> Are there any opinions on this pianist?
> Given the fact that one of her main collaborator's
> biographies is a total fake, I doubt she actually
> recorded what is sold in her name.
Now add your remarks in earlier threads and the remark in this thread
after which I felt it was time to disclose something by which all
others here should get a kind of complete picture. Even though you have
been offered a personal invitation to check everything you have doubts
about directly, be it in Royston, in Cambridge, in London you STILL
have the guts to openly spread YOUR PERSONAL doubts. It certainly is
not the fault of Concert Artist that you did not accept the invitation
or couldn't follow it at the time. Don't you think one might exspect
from you a little bit more caution in what you write?
It's nice that you repost something you posted a good while ago.
Apparently you feel yourself to be so important that every single of
your questions has immediately and satifsfactorily to be answered. You
received answers, and you received that invitation. Had you followed it
you would surely have had evidence of many things and circumstances you
had doubts about. May I add that the logic of your "dj5jt" posting is a
bit crude. Whoever Köhler was, or whoever felt the need to use that
name is in no way really important with re to the existence of Joyce
Hatto and her recording project whom I knew personally and abou twhich
project I have evidence of since my visit in Royston in summer 1989. I
wonder how you can argue that Hatto's work is not Hatto's work on the
basis that you doubt the conductor's biography. And why is your
understanding of the word "studio" so limited? Why should the Cambridge
studio be "tiny"? Have you been there? Have you seen it? You just
pretend that studio is "tiny" without having personal evidence.
You wrote about alleged live recordings of Hatto. There have never been
live recordings of Hatto officially released as yet. What has been
recorded live is in the Royston vaults and in excerpts on my shelves
(and now also on the shelves of the IPA in Maryland). I have no time to
look up where your posting in which thread appeared, but I can say it
was just a misunderstanding.
If there is a vendetta against you, it is rather not against you as a
person but against what you spread once in a while. And you are not on
my personal hate list, but I indeed hate that you go on writing things
about Miss Hatto which are based on nothing than your own limited
information. And yes, I once contacted you when I felt I was at the end
of my possibilities to help Fiorentino to get more known in Germany.
You politely turned down my offer to take over to manage him, that was
alrright and nobody can blame you for it, even though I was a bit
disappointed at the time. Not too long afterwards, however, I
understood it had been a blessing.
In another one of your earlier postings here you mentioned your
experience with and knowledge of pianists and what such people are able
to do and what not. Your intent of that posting was to again doubt that
someone like Miss Hatto can't have been able to record all she
recorded, or in your line of thinking "what is sold under her name".
Apparently your experience and imagination are challenged, and I'm
afraid it "don't mean a thing" to you if I would assure you that is is
possible. Maybe you should consider that all these recordings were not
made starting with the day when YOU first heard her name but way back
in the middle of the eighties. From my very personal experience with a
pianist of an exceptional musical and pianistical stature AND an almost
Prussian working ethos I can only offer this as a comparable example:
from 1994 to 1997 I drove four times with Fiorentino to Berlin to
produce with him recordings in the Siemens Villa. The recording
schedule was almost always the same with re to timing: arrival at the
Villa around 9:00 on Saturday, the tuner was still working. At 10:00
the session began and lasted till 13:00 or 13:30, then a break of an
hour and a half to have lunch. Start second part of the session around
15:00, work till 18:00 or 18:30. Next day, Sunday, start session at
10:00 til around 12:00, making 9 hours all in all. During these four
sessions in Berlin Fiorentino recorded music for TEN CDs, nine of which
have been released in the meantime. Joyce Hatto was very much of a
similar kind when it came to recordings, and she additionally had the
great advantage to have access to the Cambridge studio whenever she
felt to record something or to re-record something.
I ask all here to excuse this lengthy message, I almost have no doubt
that I have failed in some instances to relate grammatically and
idiomatically correct what I wanted to relate. Please give me the
benefit of the doubt. I would hope that in the future similar threads
will not appear again, even though given the past experience and the
nature of man in general one may have only a faint hope. This will also
be the last thing I post in this group as it means not only a
considerable effort for me but more and more also a considerable waste
of time re the subject in question.
EL
Phil Caron
news:67rgr29d1eqbun7dl...@4ax.com...
See his stuff on Youtube.
- Phil Caron
JohnGavin
On Jan 25, 4:28 pm, "Phil Caron" <vladi...@vermontel.net> wrote:
> <n...@thump.org> wrote in messagenews:67rgr29d1eqbun7dl...@4ax.com...
>
> > On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:19:29 -0500, "Bob Lombard"
> > <thorsteinnos...@vermontel.net> wrote:
>
> >>My lingering impression of J_Y's posts, other than the frequency of
> >>misspellings, is the purported efficiency of his legal team.
>
> > Imaginary legal team ... well he's gone to ground for good it seems. A
> > shame - a very fine pianist and a mine of experience and knowledge. I
> > hope he sorts out whatever troubles him so profoundly.See his stuff on Youtube.
>
> - Phil Caron
I've got to confess that I find his filmed masterclasses unwatchable
and unlistenable - there's something jumpy and unfocussed about his
methods.
Phil Caron
news:1169761739.8...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>> <n...@thump.org> wrote
>>
>> > On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:19:29 -0500, "Bob Lombard" wrote
>> >>My lingering impression of J_Y's posts,
>> > well he's gone to ground for good it seems.
>> > See his stuff on Youtube.
>>
>> - Phil Caron
>
> I've got to confess that I find his filmed masterclasses unwatchable
> and unlistenable - there's something jumpy and unfocussed about his
> methods.
>
What impressed me was the level of detail gone into, and many of the
individual details are gems of insight.
Do all pros analyze the works they play that thoroughly? Do they bring such
details into verbal consciousness, or do simply know when they are doing all
those things right, or do they satisfy themselves with something more vague?
- Phil Caron
JohnGavin
On Jan 25, 8:36 pm, "Phil Caron" <vladi...@vermontel.net> wrote:
> "JohnGavin" <dagd...@comcast.net> wrote in messagenews:1169761739.8...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Jan 25, 4:28 pm, "Phil Caron" <vladi...@vermontel.net> wrote:
> >> <n...@thump.org> wrote
>
> >> > On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:19:29 -0500, "Bob Lombard" wrote
> >> >>My lingering impression of J_Y's posts,
> >> > well he's gone to ground for good it seems.
> >> > See his stuff on Youtube.
>
> >> - Phil Caron
>
> > I've got to confess that I find his filmed masterclasses unwatchable
> > and unlistenable - there's something jumpy and unfocussed about his
> > methods.What impressed me was the level of detail gone into, and many of the
> individual details are gems of insight.
>
> Do all pros analyze the works they play that thoroughly? Do they bring such
> details into verbal consciousness, or do simply know when they are doing all
> those things right, or do they satisfy themselves with something more vague?
>
> - Phil Caron
You've got to ask where all these ideas come from. They are evolved
from the performer's own experience, instinct and artistic sense. By
merely throwing these ideas at a student during a masterclass, I don't
know if very much is actually accomplished. For one thing, in such a
fast paced setting, with the added nerves of auditors sitting around,
how much will the student remember - an an exceptional teacher will try
to awaken the creative faculty in the student so that they can make
their own creative interpretive decisions - otherwise the teacher is
actually creating a clone of themselves. In other words, broaden the
student's own musical consciousness rather than implanting your own
interpretation like micro-chips inserted into their brain. I get the
feeling that JBYs masterclasses are basically props that serve as an
outlet for his rather oversized ego. Is he conducting these classes
for himself or for the students? This sounds harsh, some will think
it's exaggerated, but that's what I sense in them.
If you watch the Barenboim Beethoven masterclass, you'll see a
noticeable difference. His suggestions come after carefully listening
to what they do - so that it makes sense within the context of their
own musical styles and vision.
sorabji...@lineone.net
In this sometimes quite extraordinary thread there have been two
suggestions about Joyce Hatto, each of which casts doubts and
suspicions; one is whether she made any or all of the recordings that
have been (and continue to be) issued under her name and the other is
whether she ever existed at all. Of these, the former appears to be
both deeply distasteful and lacking in reliable evidential support and
the latter almost too absurd to contemplate.
This being the case, I think it worth ignoring the latter and
concerning ourselves only with the former. The first thing that occurs
to me (and surely to others) is to ask why on earth any pianist would
choose to go into a studio and record literally hundreds of works in
the sure and certain advance knowlege that they would all be issued
under someone else's name; I think that any pianist that could actually
play all the repertoire recorded under Miss Hatto's name would not
likely be tempted even by a very large sum of money to participate in
such a project. The second expands this farther and prompts me to
ponder on who could possibly stand to benefit - and in what ways - from
such a web oif deceit (if obviously not the pianist)? Mr Barrington
Coupe? Miss Hatto herself (while she was still alive)? It seems to me
that, unless Mr Barrington Coupe just happened to get his kicks out of
devising and continuing to perpetuate a vast hoax as this would be,
even well after Miss Hatto's death - and if Miss Hatto herself and
another pianist or pianists were prepared to go along with it all, the
entire notion that others deliberately recorded all these works for
issue under her name is fatuous in the extreme.
I further understand that she has recorded the complete Op. 35 and 39
and Grande Sonate of Alkan; I heard this recently from a reliable
source - himself a distinguished pianist - who had kindly copied me in
on Mr Barrington Coupe's response to his question about this.
Dear me! Keep this nonsense up and there'll be nothing left to do on 1
April...
Best,
Alistair
Peter Lemken
> On 24 Jan., 19:00, spam.for....@buerotiger.de (Peter Lemken) wrote:
>> elu...@freenet.de wrote:
>
>> Maybe you deliberately miss the point I was trying to make with my
>> message.
>
>>> Maybe. I consider your message pointless to quite an extent.
>
> Alright, Herr Lemken, once again and most clear now I would hope: I
> understand that you try to divert but let me please guide you back to
> what you actually did a couple of times: when people here mentioned
> their doubts re Hatto's work you busily joined with your usual little
> remark that you doubt also and that you believe the recordings either
> to be fakes or not being played by Hatto (which is more or less the
> same).
Interesting. Where exactly did I say something like that? You will certainly
have a message ID at hand, alternatively a webpage with contributions that
can be traced back to me.
To sum it up (and to make it easy for you): You won't find any such message.
What you will find, however, are many postings from other people that find
the number of oddities in connexion with Hatto's CDs, well, odd. Starting
with a tiny studio that all of a sudden holds a large orchestra, CDs that
turn out to be CDRs and a conductor with a wildly tampered biography.
The last point is what seriously pisses me off, and, yes, I have chosen my
words carefully enough. The biography reads as follows:
"Brought up in Weimar, René was a pupil of Raoul Koczalski [1884-1948, via
his teacher Mikuli a direct descendent by tutelage of Chopin]. He was
precocious, playing both Chopin concertos by the age of ten. In 1936,
through Koczalski's recommendation, he briefly continued studying music at
the Jagiellonian University of Krakow. Failing to be awarded a government
scholarship, he moved to Warsaw. In the Polish capital, unable to join the
Conservatoire because of his Jewish faith, he studied privately with the
pianist Stanislaw Spinalski. In 1940 his left hand was crushed irreparably
by a young German "officer", so-called. He survived the Ghetto but in the
summer of 1942 was deported to Treblinka [one of around 300,000 "resettled"
over a period of 52 days between July and September]. Here [or in the
vicinity - one of less than a hundred believed to have survived] he was
found by the advancing Red Army [circa 1944]. Unimpressed by his mixture of
Polish/French and German-Jewish stock, his Soviet interrogator sent him on a
train heading East for a labour camp - where he remained from 1945 until
1970. Given his freedom, he returned to Warsaw, with the help of a Russian
friend, to try and sort out his family property. He learnt that a
small-holding, confiscated by the Nazis in 1940/41, had been allocated to a
German family as part of a "Resettlement" scheme. Exacting
"justice"/revenge/retribution on the resettled family in 1945 (they were
killed), the new Polish government then impounded the place, later to form
an integral part of a Communist Party Commune. René found that the Polish
authorities refused to recognise the name "Köhler" as having Polish
associations. Their Soviet counterparts meanwhile denied they'd ever
"captured" or held him prisoner. The East Germans were not interested in the
case, claiming that the Köhlers had left the Weimar area in 1936 of their
own "freewill". In fact they'd fled, an old professor at the Hochschule
(whose son was a Nazi Party member) having warned them, at personal risk,
that they should leave Weimar since all Jews were to be rounded up the
following year to be sent East. Three of the family had already been
murdered. René kept such things to himself. He never desired any attention
from the media. Physically he was a mess - probably why he used to add to
his age to account for his appearance. He died from prostate cancer. [WB-C,
adapted]"
I have directly asked Concert artist for specific information with regard to
this conductor, but these questions have never been answered, even though I
can't really see what's so difficult about knowing the date and place of
birth of an artist one has closely worked with. However, my enquiry with the
Jagellonian University in Cracow has immediately been answered, confirming
that a Rene Köhler has never studied at the university.
Until someone resolves these mysteries, you'll have to live with the fact,
that I will continue to eat everything in the Hatto/Barrington/Concert
Artist/Deacon vicinity with about a ton of salt, no matter, how many pieces
of private correspondence you feel like posting.
You'll succeed in silencing critics by being able to show them true errors
in what they write. You'll fail to silence your critics, when you fling mud
at them, disregard privacy and fail to correct factual errors.
Deal with it.
MrT
the person Joyce Hatto. Surely the recordings should be judged solely
on their merit and not on the name attached to them. If a famous
"Richter recording" turned out to be not by Richter, would we think any
less of it? In fact, this happened with Lipatti and Halina C-S and it
happens all the time in the art world.
I say that we should concentrate on the quality of performance and not
on the personality. Otherwise we're making music into some kind of
fetishism.
Best,
MrT
Henk van Tuijl
"MrT" <symbi...@yahoo.com> schreef in
bericht
news:1169837182.4...@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Art is highly personal, IMHO. When I
hear a piece of music I want to know who
composed and who performed it.
The problem with Hatto is the hype
created around her. It is hard to
believe that one pianist unknown to us
suddenly plays every composition in the
repertoire better than any other pianist
ever did.
Henk
MrT
On Jan 26, 8:31 pm, "Henk van Tuijl" <hvtu...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> "MrT" <symbiotr...@yahoo.com> schreef in
> berichtnews:1169837182.4...@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Here's a proposal: why don't we
> > separate the "Hatto recordings" from
> > the person Joyce Hatto. Surely the
> > recordings should be judged solely
> > on their merit and not on the name
> > attached to them. If a famous
> > "Richter recording" turned out to be
> > not by Richter, would we think any
> > less of it? In fact, this happened
> > with Lipatti and Halina C-S and it
> > happens all the time in the art world.
>
> > I say that we should concentrate on
> > the quality of performance and not
> > on the personality. Otherwise we're
> > making music into some kind of
> > fetishism.Art is highly personal, IMHO. When I
> hear a piece of music I want to know who
> composed and who performed it.
>
> The problem with Hatto is the hype
> created around her. It is hard to
> believe that one pianist unknown to us
> suddenly plays every composition in the
> repertoire better than any other pianist
> ever did.
True, it is hard to believe and one doesn't necessarily believe any of
the hype. On the other hand, one cannot very well argue without hearing
the recordings in question. I think the Mozart sonatas are very good.
Not great, but very good. Way better than Uchida and about as good as
Pires's first set (Denon). Definitely a very competitive entry in the
catalogue.
Best,
MrT
graham
Starting
> with a tiny studio that all of a sudden holds a large orchestra,
They used a church for at least some of the orchestral recordings! What
makes you think they didn't for all of them?
Graham
Josep Vilanova
On Jan 26, 7:52 pm, "graham" <g.ste...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> "Peter Lemken" <spam.for....@buerotiger.de> wrote in messagenews:51uvjqF...@mid.individual.net...
> Starting
>
> > with a tiny studio that all of a sudden holds a large orchestra,They used a church for at least some of the orchestral recordings! What
> makes you think they didn't for all of them?
> Graham
Don't bother. A conspiracy theory is not defeated by arguing. Every
argument finds a counter argument even more insidious. We'll have to
live with the conspiracies and in the meantime try to get hold of the
CDs and discover what the fuss is about (and I am positive they are
going to be excellent).
j
Henk van Tuijl
Indeed, we cannot judge without hearing
her recordings. That's why I have
ordered the Debussy etudes.
"About as good" brings Hatto back to
human proportions and makes her - for
me - more interesting as an artist.
Henk
Josep Vilanova
> The problem with Hatto is the hype
> created around her. It is hard to
> believe that one pianist unknown to us
> suddenly plays every composition in the
> repertoire better than any other pianist
> ever did.
>
I also had problems with that idea few months ago, but not any longer.
After all, classical music is not that different from other commercial
activities, where marketing and hype are far more relevant than pure
talent. Wouldn't you think that when -let's say just to put an extreme
example- Kafka died people around him wouldn't have thought "if he
really was a good writer we would have heard of him already"? And it's
not that impossible to think that Mrs. Hatto talents got deeper during
the last years of her life, when she couldn't play live.
j
Roland van Gaalen
<horus_s...@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
news:1169482033.3...@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> After hearing so much about Joyce Hatto, I started purchasing some of
> her recordings. While nothing I have heard is bad (in fact, I am glad I
> bought these CDs), I have noticed something eerie: that the pianist
> playing the Mozart sonatas _cannot be_ the pianist playing Prokofiev
> _or_ the pianist playing Albeniz. I have the distinct feeling of being
> the victim of some sort of hoax. Does anyone else share these feelings?
> What is actually known about the artist and the circumstances? I looked
> on the web and all I can find is some sort of official story, nothing
> independent.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Seth
Congratulations.
You have started one of the most bizarre threads in the history of this
newsgroup.
---
Roland van Gaalen
Amsterdam
r.p.vangaalenATchello.NL (AT=@)
graham
"Josep Vilanova" <josepv...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1169841359.5...@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
order her Scarlatti discs.
Graham
Peter Lemken
> The problem with Hatto is the hype
> created around her. It is hard to
> believe that one pianist unknown to us
> suddenly plays every composition in the
> repertoire better than any other pianist
> ever did.
Heresy!
Peter Lemken
Because it says so on their website?
Frank Berger
>
>> The problem with Hatto is the hype
>> created around her. It is hard to
>> believe that one pianist unknown to us
>> suddenly plays every composition in the
>> repertoire better than any other pianist
>> ever did.
>>
>
>
> I also had problems with that idea few months ago, but not any longer.
> After all, classical music is not that different from other commercial
> activities, where marketing and hype are far more relevant than pure
> talent.
Only in the short run. Marketing and hype don't affect posterity's view of
art much, if at all.
graham
> graham <g.st...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>> "Peter Lemken" <spam.f...@buerotiger.de> wrote in message
>> news:51uvjqF...@mid.individual.net...
>> Starting
>>> with a tiny studio that all of a sudden holds a large orchestra,
>>
>> They used a church for at least some of the orchestral recordings!
>> What
>> makes you think they didn't for all of them?
>
> Because it says so on their website?
>
The PiCo cd I have in front of me was recorded at St.Marks, Croydon -
clearly NOT the studio used for recording the solo works.
Graham
Peter Lemken
>
> "Peter Lemken" <spam.f...@buerotiger.de> wrote in message
> news:51vobfF...@mid.individual.net...
>> graham <g.st...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Peter Lemken" <spam.f...@buerotiger.de> wrote in message
>>> news:51uvjqF...@mid.individual.net...
>>> Starting
>>>> with a tiny studio that all of a sudden holds a large orchestra,
>>>
>>> They used a church for at least some of the orchestral recordings!
>>> What
>>> makes you think they didn't for all of them?
>>
>> Because it says so on their website?
>>
> Where?
> The PiCo cd I have in front of me was recorded at St.Marks, Croydon -
> clearly NOT the studio used for recording the solo works.
> Graham
http://www.concertartistrecordings.com/Reviews/9195.htm
Josep Vilanova
> > Marketing and hype don't affect posterity's view of
> art much, if at all.
That may be true of bad performers trying to pass as a good ones. But
couldn't it be that there were many very good performers, or very good
artists of whatever the speciality, that we will never know they have
existed because of the way their works were treated? Maybe, after all,
excellence in art will always come to the surface at some point in the
future.
Josep Vilanova
> > Where?
> > The PiCo cd I have in front of me was recorded at St.Marks, Croydon -
> > clearly NOT the studio used for recording the solo works.
> > Grahamhttp://www.concertartistrecordings.com/Reviews/9195.htm
>
> Peter Lemken
> Berlin
>
>
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/w/49721/1
Henk van Tuijl
"Josep Vilanova"
<josepv...@hotmail.com> schreef in
bericht
news:1169842136.7...@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
<g> Selling art as consumer goods ("Buy
Hatto if you want your Feux Follets with
a killing left hand!")?
In all seriousness, I am looking forward
to the Hatto CD I ordered. If I
understand Alan Watkins correctly she
was not just "a great pianist in her own
studio" but had an international career
before she became ill.
Henk
Phil Caron
news:1169850059.7...@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> And Dan Koren fooled us all with Ann Schein's
> recordings of the Chopin scherzi. A real eggfacefest...
Those are excellent performances.
- Phil Caron
JohnGavin
On Jan 27, 12:58 pm, "Phil Caron" <vladi...@vermontel.net> wrote:
> "MrT" <symbiotr...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:1169850059.7...@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> > And Dan Koren fooled us all with Ann Schein's
> > recordings of the Chopin scherzi. A real eggfacefest...Those are excellent performances.
>
Yes, I thought those performances might have been one of the Richter
recordings. It was nice of DK to send out those recordings too.
But....let's face it - one of Dan's one-upmanship strategies was to
cite performances that were rather obscure which would automatically
silence the argument, because he knew that in all probability, none of
us knew it. Example - the best Chopin Ballade in G Minor was by Wendy
Chen. Well, how can anyone counter the argument? Sometimes it turned
out that he was credible, othertimes, not.
Frank Berger
"Phil Caron" <vlad...@vermontel.net> wrote in message
news:11699205...@xwing.vermontel.net...
As is her accompaniment to Wanda Wilkormirska in the Prokofiev violin
sonatas. Perhaps my favorite performance of two of my favorite works. Her
Schumann I didn't care for.
Peter Lemken
> http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/w/49721/1
What are you trying to tell us?
Josep Vilanova
On Jan 27, 7:18 pm, spam.for....@buerotiger.de (Peter Lemken) wrote:
> Josep Vilanova <josepvilan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/w/49721/1What are you trying to tell us?
>
> Peter Lemken
> Berlin
>
> --J> "Make me a sandwich!"
> "Make a sandwich yourself."
> "sudo Make me a sandwich!"
> "OK."
That in the Hatto CD it says:
Joyce Hatto (piano)
National Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra, Rene Köhler
Recorded St Mark's Church, Croydon, June 1995 (Concerto) and Concert
Artist Studios, September 1997 (remainder)
TareeDawg
news:45bb81de$0$327$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl...
My father had several Joyce Hatto LPs in the very early sixties. Forget the
label, or even the music she played, but she was big-ish in the UK, along
with Fiorentino. Not so sure about her international reputation. Just being
discovered right now methinks.
Ray H
Taree, NSW
Andrew Clarke
wrote:
> Joyce Hatto (piano)
>
> National Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra, Rene Köhler
>
I don't doubt for one moment either the late Miss Hatto's existence or
integrity, The only musical Rene Kohler I can find on Google - other
than in entries for Miss Hatto's recordings - is this one:
http://www.reneköhler.com/
And what is the National Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra? A scratch
orchesta? A London orchestra under an assumed name for contractual
reasons?
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Peter Lemken
>
>
> On Jan 27, 7:18 pm, spam.for....@buerotiger.de (Peter Lemken) wrote:
>> Josep Vilanova <josepvilan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/w/49721/1What are you trying to tell us?
>
>
> Joyce Hatto (piano)
>
> National Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra, Rene Köhler
>
> Recorded St Mark's Church, Croydon, June 1995 (Concerto) and Concert
> Artist Studios, September 1997 (remainder)
Recorded in the Concert Artist Studios, Cambridge, March 3rd 1997
(Prokofiev), March 5th 1997 (Tchaikovsky, Toccata), March 16th 1999
(Balakirev)
Peter Lemken
Berlin
--
Peter Lemken
>
> Just curious, where does one find that bio? I thought I'd come across
> it on the label's website some time ago, but I can't seem to find it
> now.
http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2006/Jan06/Hatto2_recordings.htm
Andrej Kluge
Andrew Clarke schrieb:
> integrity, The only musical Rene Kohler I can find on Google - other
> than in entries for Miss Hatto's recordings - is this one:
>
> http://www.reneköhler.com/
Does this URL really work for you? Firefox says it cannot find the domain
(after having resolved this IDN to the punycode www.xn--renekhler-47a.com)
Ciao
A.
Josep Vilanova
On 28/1/07 10:55, in article 523dp5F...@mid.individual.net, "Andrej
Kluge" <kl...@wizzy.de> wrote:
Try:
Andrej Kluge
Josep Vilanova schrieb:
>> Does this URL really work for you? Firefox says it cannot find the
>> domain (after having resolved this IDN to the punycode
>> www.xn--renekhler-47a.com)
>
Oh, of course...
Thx and Ciao
A.
Steve Emerson
"JohnGavin" <dag...@comcast.net> wrote:
> But....let's face it - one of Dan's one-upmanship strategies was to
> cite performances that were rather obscure which would automatically
> silence the argument, because he knew that in all probability, none of
> us knew it. Example - the best Chopin Ballade in G Minor was by Wendy
> Chen. Well, how can anyone counter the argument?
Well, you could buy the disc -- it is readily available (check Froogle).
I scarfed it out of a specials bin a couple of years ago. An excellent
and quite original set of Ballades, #4 less effective than the rest but
equally imaginative.
SE.
Paul Goldstein
Ann Schein also recorded a very good Moonlight Sonata for Readers Digest.
tomdeacon
> elu...@freenet.de wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> Thank you for this most invaluable insight.
Certainly allows us all to penetrate the inner workings of an
ungrateful scumbag.
Perhaps you should take up that work you used to have, trying to flog
a mediocre Russian piano-banger on an unsuspecting public.
Or just stick with your current assignment as a garbage collector.
TD
tomdeacon
> And Ansermet's recordings were actually conducted by Deacon
You think so?
What an insult!
Even I have more competence. And that is not saying a great deal.
TD
tomdeacon
> Carter is busy rewriting the book of Genesis to fit his needs.
Some of us fervently hope that Jeffrey Powell is written out in the
rewrite.
That would make the whole enterprise worthwhile.
TD