More Hatto thievery from BIS
Farhan Malik
the Liszt Transcendental Etudes, which was mostly stolen from the BIS
release played by Lazlo Simon. Unfortunately for BIS, I have
discovered that a good portion of Hatto's Debussy is also stolen from
BIS. All of Hatto's Debussy volume 3 comes from Noriko Ogawa's BIS
CDs. Proof can be found here:
http://www.farhanmalik.com/hatto/debussy3.html I also found that the
often mentioned Hatto Le plus que lente performance is actually Ogawa
sped up by 23 seconds! Proof of that is here:
http://www.farhanmalik.com/hatto/debussy2.html You may recall that
this piece was played at Hatto's funeral service as an example of her
great artistry.
Hopefully with the proof that I am now providing on the web some
action will be taken by someone against the perpretator of this crime.
Farhan
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:7hfsa3t1dt0ni84oh...@4ax.com:
> Hopefully with the proof that I am now providing on the web some
> action will be taken by someone against the perpretator of this crime.
That would be nice. Any word from law-enforcement authorities in the UK?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Tom Deacon is a liar and a scoundrel who cannot hold on to a job.
John Briggs
> Farhan Malik <mal...@concentric.net> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in
> news:7hfsa3t1dt0ni84oh...@4ax.com:
>
>> Hopefully with the proof that I am now providing on the web some
>> action will be taken by someone against the perpretator of this
>> crime.
>
> That would be nice. Any word from law-enforcement authorities in the
> UK?
Any word of a formal complaint to them from the copyright holders (the
record companies)? As I have said before, dog doesn't eat dog - it remains
to be demonstrated that Barrington-Coupe was the most dishonest of them.
--
John Briggs
Royke
news:JErri.1483$mo....@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
In a Letter to the Editor of the Gramophone, BIS explained why they are not
going to court. A key issue is that there are no 'damages': sales of the BIS
CDs involved have never been higher. Good news for Noriko Ogawa, I guess
RJ
John Briggs
> "John Briggs" <john.b...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:JErri.1483$mo....@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
>> Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>>> Farhan Malik <mal...@concentric.net> appears to have caused the
>>> following letters to be typed in
>>> news:7hfsa3t1dt0ni84oh...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> Hopefully with the proof that I am now providing on the web some
>>>> action will be taken by someone against the perpretator of this
>>>> crime.
>>>
>>> That would be nice. Any word from law-enforcement authorities in
>>> the UK?
>>
>> Any word of a formal complaint to them from the copyright holders
>> (the record companies)? As I have said before, dog doesn't eat dog
>> - it remains to be demonstrated that Barrington-Coupe was the most
>> dishonest of them.
>
> are not going to court. A key issue is that there are no 'damages':
> sales of the BIS CDs involved have never been higher. Good news for
> Noriko Ogawa, I guess
And we have already discussed that fallacy here. The letter was answered
the following month by one from Hyperion's (presumably newly appointed...)
copyright expert. And that letter was also discussed here :-) Hyperion
don't seem to be affected by the Hatto scandal...
--
John Briggs
bisr...@compuserve.com
> Royke wrote:
> > "John Briggs" <john.brig...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> >news:JErri.1483$mo....@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
> >> Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> >>> Farhan Malik <mal...@concentric.net> appears to have caused the
> >>> following letters to be typed in
> >>>news:7hfsa3t1dt0ni84oh...@4ax.com:
>
> >>>> Hopefully with the proof that I am now providing on the web some
> >>>> action will be taken by someone against the perpretator of this
> >>>> crime.
>
> >>> That would be nice. Any word from law-enforcement authorities in
> >>> the UK?
>
> >> Any word of a formal complaint to them from the copyright holders
> >> (the record companies)? As I have said before, dog doesn't eat dog
> >> - it remains to be demonstrated that Barrington-Coupe was the most
> >> dishonest of them.
>
> > In a Letter to the Editor of the Gramophone, BIS explained why they
> > are not going to court. A key issue is that there are no 'damages':
> > sales of the BIS CDs involved have never been higher. Good news for
> > Noriko Ogawa, I guess
Yes, now that it has become known that it is her.
>
> And we have already discussed that fallacy here. The letter was answered
> the following month by one from Hyperion's (presumably newly appointed...)
> copyright expert. And that letter was also discussed here :-) Hyperion
> don't seem to be affected by the Hatto scandal...
Oh yes, they are, and they have decided not to press charges. The UK
legal system has already taught them a lesson.
The irony is that Barrington Cooper (which was his real name) has been
so incredibly sharp in this. He has pinched so little from everyone
that it simply doesn't pay to prosecute with the horrendous costs
involved to prove every bar. He has mixed different labels' music
together into the same CD, even piece.
> --
> John Briggs- Dölj citerad text -
>
> - Visa citerad text -
In this day and age I still cannot afford to take the slightest risk
of being screwed by the English judiciary system. Proof: the Sawkins
case. That the breach of copyright isn't taken up ex officio by the
Public Prosecutor's office is a scandal that further underlines my
reluctance to have anything at all to do with such a system. That
would never happen in Sweden.
The "damage" is obviously done as has been stated, but from a
prosecuting point of
view. For me, the damage is in numbers, but to quantify them is
rather more
difficult. If, as seems to be the case, he partly has produced CD-R:s
upon
demand, there is no way to ascertain the quantity or selling price.
The
Court isn't going to play detective. That has to be done either by
the
Public Prosecutor (who, as said above, is totally disinterested) or
yours truly with colleagues, and I cannot afford that.
Yes, I have tried to contact the BPI, but, since I am not a paying
member,
they haven't even answered mails or returned calls. I really wish
that the BPI would do something, but what can I do?
Or, why don't you pass a virtual collection plate around yourselves,
all ye that crave for a prosecution, and see how much you can come up
with? Would that pay even for half-hour "conference" with a Wig?
I am not going alone.
At least the bugger had taste! The Ogawa recording is stupendous.
Best - Robert
MrT
With some notable exceptions. He stole the entire cycle of Mozart
sonatas by Ingrid Haebler from Denon and the entire cycle of Beethoven
sonatas by O'Conor from Telarc.
>
> At least the bugger had taste! The Ogawa recording is stupendous.
The other day I was looking through my collection database and I
realized that I have never gotten rid of a BIS CD... you have done a
great job over the years. I think the Hatto affair has actually been
beneficial in some respects: it has shown that there are excellent
pianists all over the place, not just a few "names" with everybody
else in the shadow. The pianists who were praised as Hatto were, in
effect, praised on blind listening (despite the sob story, which may
have had some influence). The conclusions are pretty clear. In a way,
the Hatto affair has cleaned up the slate and allowed for a more level
playing field. I bet someone who wants a Ravel player will now look at
Roger Muraro, someone will realize that Arthur Moreira Lima can play
Chopin real good, that Michele Campanella is a superb pianist, and so
forth. All of that is beneficial, as is the natural skepticism with
which extravagant reviews will be received. The next time some
reviewer says of some pianist, "Move over, Horowitz, this is the real
article", some of us will think "Hatto!".
Best,
mrt
Matthew B. Tepper
to be typed in news:1185870706.0...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:
> The other day I was looking through my collection database and I realized
> that I have never gotten rid of a BIS CD... you have done a great job over
> the years. I think the Hatto affair has actually been beneficial in some
> respects: it has shown that there are excellent pianists all over the
> place, not just a few "names" with everybody else in the shadow. The
> pianists who were praised as Hatto were, in effect, praised on blind
> listening (despite the sob story, which may have had some influence). The
> conclusions are pretty clear. In a way, the Hatto affair has cleaned up the
> slate and allowed for a more level playing field. I bet someone who wants a
> Ravel player will now look at Roger Muraro, someone will realize that
> Arthur Moreira Lima can play Chopin real good, that Michele Campanella is a
> superb pianist, and so forth. All of that is beneficial, as is the natural
> skepticism with which extravagant reviews will be received. The next time
> some reviewer says of some pianist, "Move over, Horowitz, this is the real
> article", some of us will think "Hatto!".
It'll be a Lang Lang time before I could ever take such a review seriously.
Walter Traprock
> For me, the damage is in numbers, but to quantify them is
> rather more
> difficult.
The damage is criminal damage, that seems clear to me. This ought
to be a police matter, as a criminal complaint.
Have the police made any statement on the Hatto affair?
I do recall the Beechnut news from 20 years ago, some execs were
adding sugar to Beechnut "no sugar added" apple juice, and ended
up with prison terms for fraud. This is just an anecdotal aside,
as I'm sure our Justice Department has weaker interest in such
matters than they did 20 years ago. But fraud is just one of the
issues in the Hatto affair.
Norman M. Schwartz
"Walter Traprock" <wetra...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wetraprock-442C6...@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> bisr...@compuserve.com wrote:
>
>> For me, the damage is in numbers, but to quantify them is
>> rather more
>> difficult.
>
> The damage is criminal damage, that seems clear to me. This ought
> to be a police matter, as a criminal complaint.
>
> Have the police made any statement on the Hatto affair?
>
> I do recall the Beechnut news from 20 years ago, some execs were
> adding sugar to Beechnut "no sugar added" apple juice, and ended
> up with prison terms for fraud. This is just an anecdotal aside,
I recall that it was a whole lot worse than that. This was a Baby Food
product and raising children at the time it became a serious matter. It was
revealed that the manufacturer never had a single apple in their plant and
it was composed with synthetic apple flavoring. There wasn't a nutrient in
the whole damned thing. Additionally, the chemicals and coloring were
potentially harmful to infants drinking it. I believe they were given a
stiff fine and their business must have suffered from the adverse publicity.
We never purchased anything made by Beechnut thereafter. At least in the
Hatto case you got real music that couldn't cause any bodily injury.
Paul Goldstein
bisr...@compuserve.com says...
Mr. von Bahr: If you were to pursue B-C in the USA, you would have a chance, as
a likely prevailing party, to obtain an award of attorney's fees in addition to
whatever damages you could prove. Accordingly, an American lawyer might take
your case on a contingent fee basis - i.e. the attorney would look to a fee
award for payment. Since B-C sold infringing CDs to US customers, it should be
possible to obtain jurisdiction over him and/or his company in an American
court. Whether any of this is worth doing, I don't know enough of the facts to
say.
Frank Berger
"Paul Goldstein" <pgol...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:f8o0r...@drn.newsguy.com...
Personally, I don't care about civil damages (since they aren't very large,
anyway). I want to see him prosecuted for defrauding *me*. Isn't mail
fraud a crime in the UK?
O
<pgol...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> Mr. von Bahr: If you were to pursue B-C in the USA, you would have a chance,
> as
> a likely prevailing party, to obtain an award of attorney's fees in addition
> to
> whatever damages you could prove. Accordingly, an American lawyer might take
> your case on a contingent fee basis - i.e. the attorney would look to a fee
> award for payment. Since B-C sold infringing CDs to US customers, it should
> be
> possible to obtain jurisdiction over him and/or his company in an American
> court. Whether any of this is worth doing, I don't know enough of the facts to
> say.
>
Even in the US, and even if he obtains a judgement against B-C, he
would still have to collect that judgement, whatever it might be. If
B-C doesn't have the money, then there's nothing to collect. You can
get awarded all the fees in the world, but if there's no money to pay
that judgement, than it's all moot.
-Owen
bisr...@compuserve.com
> In article <f8o0rv0...@drn.newsguy.com>, Paul Goldstein
Just a polite question: who would tend to BIS and who would make sure
that we produce records good enough to copy, while I spend the rest of
my life pursuing the wild goose chase after the money that, if it was
there in the first place, for absolutely certain isn't there any more?
Best - Robert
Matthew B. Tepper
to be typed in news:310720071509518946%ow...@denofinequityx.com:
Whatever, dude. Probably easier (and cheaper) just to hire some droogs to
pay Mr. B-C a visit. Anybody got contact information for Alex?
Paul Goldstein
Paul Goldstein
bisr...@compuserve.com says...
We'll take care of that for you.
;-)
Walter Traprock
> > adding sugar to Beechnut "no sugar added" apple juice, and ended
> > up with prison terms for fraud. This is just an anecdotal aside,
>
> I recall that it was a whole lot worse than that. This was a Baby Food
> product and raising children at the time it became a serious matter. It was
> revealed that the manufacturer never had a single apple in their plant and
> it was composed with synthetic apple flavoring. There wasn't a nutrient in
> the whole damned thing. Additionally, the chemicals and coloring were
> potentially harmful to infants drinking it. I believe they were given a
> stiff fine and their business must have suffered from the adverse publicity.
> We never purchased anything made by Beechnut thereafter.
Sounds vaguely familiar, but I think this was a different incident!
from wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beech-Nut
"In 1987, Beech-Nut Nutrition Corporation paid fines and costs totally
$2.2 million, the largest amount ever, for violating the Federal
Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act by selling artificially flavored sugar
water as apple juice. John F. Lavery, the company's vice president
for operations was convicted in criminal court and sentenced to a
year and a day in jail; Niels L. Hoyvald, the president of the
company, also convicted, served six months of community service.
Each of them also paid a $100,000 fine."
> At least in the
> Hatto case you got real music that couldn't cause any bodily injury.
With the hatto, you have double-misrepresentation, as the recordings they
were stole from were also tampered with before being misrepresented.
bisr...@compuserve.com
> In article <1185912146.856782.25...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> bisrob...@compuserve.com says...
>
> - Visa citerad text -
Aaaaahh, now you're talking!!! Can I have your (and the collective's)
CV, please? It would probably be an awakening for yo'all, as it isn't
quite as easy to run a good label as I believe people in general
think.
:-) - Robert
Akiralx
"Frank Berger" <frank.d...@dal.frb.org> wrote in message
news:13av251...@news.supernews.com...
>
> Personally, I don't care about civil damages (since they aren't very
> large, anyway). I want to see him prosecuted for defrauding *me*. Isn't
> mail fraud a crime in the UK?
No.
Walter Traprock
Criminal prosecution can be performed by any of the countries that
it was sold to. Were any Concert Artist cds sold to China, perhaps?