A Happy Hanukkah to all the Jewish readers and a listening note
Allen
Austin is devoting their Choral Classics program to Hanukkah music,
available online at KMFA.org. It will be aired at 10:00 AM CST and
repeated sometime during the afternoon and then will wind up in their
downloadable library for a few weeks.
Allen
Bob Lombard
As a non-Jewish reader I accept the sentiment anyway - but not to the
point where I drink Maneshevitz (no matter how it's spelled).
bl
Frank Berger
Nor do I. There are some pretty nice kosher sweet wines that don't take
like cough syrup. A lot of people prefer to make the Sabbath blessing over
sweet wine, especially if there are kids at the table. Grape juice will do
for that. There's a wide array of varietal and regional kosher wines from
Israel, California, Austrialia, Chile, France, Italy, Spain and more. Like
other kosher products, they tend to cost more than comparable non-kosher
products, because of limited distribution, extra production costs, etc. I
just ordered a mixed case from kosherwines.com - Port, Sherry, Rioja, Cab,
Chardonnay.
Allen
HEB grocery store that, with its other stores, dominate the grocery
business in Texas. Although owned by a staunch Baptist family (the only
non-family owner is Baylor University) that store has a great Kosher
deli; for several days before each Jewish holiday they hang a big sign
that says "Largest selection of Kosher wines in Texas". The store is
about two blocks from the Jewish Community Center that was built by
Michael Dell and his wife. I love good egg salad, and that deli makes
the best I have ever had; they keep hard-boiled eggs in a refrigerator
and when someone orders they get eggs out, shell them, and mix it while
you watch. Another thing about that store that makes it different from
most places in Texas--you see more yarmulkas than cowboy boots.
Allen
Bob Lombard
> Another thing about that store that makes it different from
> Allen
When you consider that the boots (usually) have a 2:1 advantage per
person, that is impressive.
bl
Alan Cooper
news:MdydnX1CPs5SZrnW...@giganews.com:
> Another thing about that store that makes it
> different from most places in Texas--you see more yarmulkas than
> cowboy boots. Allen
Wow, that's the first I've heard of Texans wearing cowboy boots on their heads! What
a weird place :-)
With warm greetings of the season for those of all faiths & none,
AC
Frank Berger
I am familiar witht the Austin HEB. Of course, the"largest collection of
Kosher wines in Texas" may be a bit tongue-in-cheek. My wife is a kosher
supervisor for the largest (of 2 or 3) Kosher caterer in Dallas, and they
have jobs in San Antonio and Austin every so often. One time there was a
wedding in San Antonio. The food was cooked at the Dallas facility and we
trucked down to SA in a caravan.
Frank Berger
Even more so since the people with yarmulkes most likely aren't wearing
boots.
Allen
Allen
PM. What's playing now isn't Hanukkah music.
Allen
Frank Berger
I'm not sure, but I don't think you'll catch Kinky in a yarmulke.
Allen
surprise you.
Allen
number_six
love her version of this.
I heard this at the end of Philosophers, Fiddlers and Fools, Ruth
Hirschman's annual radio show of Hannukkah music. But to my great
annoyance, it was played at the end -- with the host blabbering over
the music. Count one gentile who was delighted to find this website
of Jewish music.
Allen
wouldn't have had any reason to know who he was. However, a person that
I did know kicked off his rise to fame. He wrote "There's a Rumor of a
Tumor" for the Texas Jewboys after Charles Whitman's massacre from the
UT Tower. Every August 1 (the anniversary of that gruesome day) I have
really bad memories. Whitman had been a part-time employee of the bank
where I worked, and when they identified him you can't imagine the
shockwave that went through the bank. Incidentally, Kinky was the only
Jew in in the Jewboys.
Allen
Kip Williams
> Frank Berger wrote:
>> Allen wrote:
>>> Frank Berger wrote:
>>>> Bob Lombard wrote:
>>>>> Allen wrote:
>>>>>> Another thing about that store that makes it different from
>>>>>> most places in Texas--you see more yarmulkes than cowboy boots.
>>>>>> Allen
>>>>> When you consider that the boots (usually) have a 2:1 advantage per
>>>>> person, that is impressive.
>>>>>
>>>> wearing boots.
>>>>
>>> How about Kinky Friedman?
>>
>> I'm not sure, but I don't think you'll catch Kinky in a yarmulke.
How about Irving?
"He came from the old Bar Mitzvah spread
With a ten-gallon yarmulke on his head."
> He lived two blocks from me until he finished at UT, but back then I
> wouldn't have had any reason to know who he was. However, a person that
> I did know kicked off his rise to fame. He wrote "There's a Rumor of a
> Tumor" for the Texas Jewboys after Charles Whitman's massacre from the
"The Ballad of Charles Whitman"
> UT Tower. Every August 1 (the anniversary of that gruesome day) I have
> really bad memories. Whitman had been a part-time employee of the bank
> where I worked, and when they identified him you can't imagine the
> shockwave that went through the bank. Incidentally, Kinky was the only
> Jew in in the Jewboys.
Kip W
Dave Cook
> When you look at how the majority votes down here, nothing should should
> surprise you.
Houston has just elected an openly Lesbian mayor, so there are pockets
of tolerance down there. Still, I'd probably go out of my way to
avoid traveling through Texas. (I did live in Austin for a few years,
though that may not count as Texas.)
Dave Cook
Frank Berger
As a Libertarian/Conservative, I find I have no problem visiting "liberal"
places or interacting with "liberal" people. Obviously, people of different
political stripes have to be careful when discussing politics. But when we
respect each other despite certain differences, we can get along fine. I
find your attitutude bigoted, frankly.
Allen
Texas, had an openly gay mayor who resigned about a year ago, during his
_second_ term to move to Mexico to be with his lover while he awaited a
green card. About 25 years ago the subject of gays and Lesbians came up,
and my father said "We don't have any of those in west Texas". Wrong!
Allen
ansermetniac
Conservative/libertarian economics calls for the rich and powerful to
have the liberties to prey on the masses. Please cite where in the
Tanach which allows that. I can show you where it is forbidden
No Jew is a conservative/libertarian. Judaism is a socialist religion.
Do you remember that the Levites paid no taxes and had them paid by
those who could.
I suggest you read your Humash in English this time so you can
understand it. It may be over your head, though
In my Humash Ronald Reagan is not God but the serpent
Your boss is Time's new Man of the Year joining anoither great Human
Being, Adolph Hilter
Abbedd
Gerard
> No Jew is a conservative/libertarian.
HAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAAHAHHAAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAA.
>
> Your boss is Time's new Man of the Year joining anoither great Human
> Being, Adolph Hilter
>
> Abbedd
Forget the HAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAAHAHHAAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAA.
Bob Harper
attitude about other peoples' politics and attitudes. We do, of course,
sometimes attempt to see our positions recognized, as is our right in a
free society. We just don't like being told that we are somehow
'intolerant' if we don't buy into the Zeitgeist.
Aretha Franklin had it right: R-E-S-P-E-C-T.
Bob Harper
Roland van Gaalen
I like this streak of civil libertarianism ("live and let live") which
strikes me as very American and is at any rate consistent with my own
experience in the USA (1979-1991).
Bravo to Houston, by the way.
--
Roland van Gaalen
R.P.vanGaalenATchello.nl
Amsterdam
ansermetniac
Jesus was left wing and would puke if he was here today and saw what
goes on in his name vis a vis the conservative hate mongering war
mongering Christians of the USA and those who want liberty to stalk
and kill their prey economically
A Conservative Christian????
ROTFLMAO
Abbedd
Bob Harper
give in this once. Clearly, your understanding of Christianity is on a
par with your understanding of recorded sound, with similar results. You
would do well to retire for a period of reflection, though I realize
that recommendation will go for naught.
Bob Harper
ansermetniac
<bob.h...@comcast.net> wrote:
No wonder Jesus is absent from Christianity
Elitists like Harper refuse his Socialist teachings to further their
own agenda. How blasphemous
Christianity is based upon foolishness and blasphemy
Camel-> Needle
Is Herbert W. Armstrong and his blasphemous foolishness and his
fortuend fleecing his flock in The Kingdom of Heaven
Abbedd
Allen
medical debates is "I live, you die".
Allen
Gerard
Aka "live and let die".
Frank Berger
You've made our point, Allen. The fact is that reasonable, reasoning,
caring people differ on how to maximize the public good. It's sad that you
can't see that.
Bob Lombard
Big Business is not "reasonable, reasoning, caring". The politician
hangers-on (The Republican ones are a little more obvious about it)
are protecting Big business to further their financial wellbeing.
[If you wish, you may consider this a better spelled version of an
ansermetniac effusion.]
bl
Bob Harper
Bob Harper
Gerard
Sure, as usual he misses the point.
Kip Williams
You forgot to capitalize Right.
Kip W
Bob Harper
confusing 'public good' (which both Frank and I would like to see
maximized) with 'state action'. The two are not equivalent; in fact, it
can be persuasively argued that they are frequently in conflict or even
contradictory.
Bob Harper
Gerard
Maybe there's another error here. "Public good' and 'no action' are very
different things.
Bob Lombard
What's good for the profit-takers of Big Business is good for the
public in general? The evidence is that even Cheney didn't try to sell
that bushwah.
bl
Frank Berger
I could as easily argue that Democratic politicians are beholden to a wide
array of special interest groups, each of which has its own constituencies'
interests at heart, not "the public good." In fact, all politicians have to
balance the interests of the folks that got (and keep) them in office and
what, as individuals, they think is in the public interest. It's called
representative government.
Frank Berger
No I'm a Liberarian. In a diagram its generally centered but *above* the
Left and the Right.
Frank Berger
Taree Dawg
The point really, is how much profit health insurance companies should
get. In a caring society, insurance companies should play no part in
health systems.
Ray Hall, Taree
Frank Berger
In a free society, they wouldn't. Or at least competition among them would
produce the "right" amount of insurance co. influence on health care.
ansermetniac
Governments wsere created to protect us from a free market. Reagan is
an asshole and one of the greatest villains in history and constantly
condemned Israel
Abbedd
Frank Berger
ansermetniac
From the guy who invented supply side trickle down free market crap
that ruined the world economy??
Why bother?
Abbedd
Frank Berger
David Oberman
<thorste...@vermontel.net> wrote:
>Big Business is not "reasonable, reasoning, caring".
Neither is the State.
The difference is that Big Business doesn't have the legal authority
to coerce me to buy its wares, whereas the State, of course, does -- &
constantly exercises its propensity to command at will my actions &
possessions.
It all reminds me of FIDELIO.
Bob Lombard
Hoover.org? Would you be skeptical about articles at Marx.org?
bl
David Oberman
<anserm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Governments wsere created to protect us from a free market.
So if you decided to sell me your CD of Nathan Milstein performing the
Bach partitas for X dollars & I agreed to the price, the government
should step in somehow to "protect" us?
Interesting.
Bob Harper
Bob Harper
David Oberman
<anserm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>"How to Cure Health Care," by Milton Friedman
>>
>>http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/3459466.html
>>
>
>From the guy who invented supply side trickle down free market crap
>that ruined the world economy??
You're posting to a newsgroup, presumably on a PC that was researched,
designed, funded, & sold (to you) on the open market.
Would you have preferred buying a computer from the State? If you were
ever able to get your hands on a computer at all that way, it would
have been a piece of shit & would have cost you undoubtedly thousands
of dollars. Or maybe you'd have preferred the State give you a
computer, designed & built by federal employees -- G5s maybe?
Good stuff!
Bob Harper
Precisely.
Bob Harper
Roland van Gaalen
I like competitive markets (and I agree that Hayek and Friedman are worth
reading), but don't you think that Woolmart is a mixed blessing?
--
Roland van Gaalen
Amsterdam
R.P.vanGaalenATchello.nl
ansermetniac
If I sent you Zubin Mehta instead, yes. You could sue me for fraud
The free market has worked real well since we took all consumer
protections off. Are you it the top 5% or just an asshole
What was your credit card rate before deregulation. What was the usury
rate then and what is your credit card rate now?
The last free market was called Feudalism, Lords and Serfs.
The Constitution says something about the general defense. Does that
only mean Peter Sellers and Mouses that roar or does that include an
attack from within by economic means.
Abbedd
ansermetniac
Fuck off Fascist
I apologize if your postings are the result of stupidity
Have you been in a coma for the last 30 years?
Abbedd
Allen
police and fire departments, but socialized organizations. I you see
someone in a burning house, would you call try to find a private fire
fighter and get them to put you on their list, after haggling over the
price? No, I suspect you would call the socialistic one. Then and after
they had saved the _property_, would you expect them to leave the
_human_ victim on the ground to die of third degree burns? If that is
your belief, please post the references that sanction that conduct,
either from the OT or NT. If you can't find any, please stop sounding so
holy. By the way, I can find plenty to the contrary in both sources.
Allen
Frank Berger
Very well said.
Frank Berger
In our society you are free to confuse freedom and tyranny, which you
apparently have.
Frank Berger
Well, he's not entirely wrong. Government properly exists to "fix"
situations where the free market doesn't work well. Such cases are often,
even for me, easy to identify. The problem is how to keep government,
because of its tendancy to grow without restraint to inflict us with
unintentended consequences of its policies, from making things worse.
Frank Berger
Sure, who doesn't like the quaint old mom and pop stores on main street,
which have been replaced with malls and Walmarts? I'll tell you who. The
people who need to save money and transportation costs that malls and
Walmarts make possible. I don't want government officials imposing
*they're* image on what America should look like.
Frank Berger
Possibly the worst straw dog argument I've ever seen. I'm not necessarily
advocating privatizing police and fire,but if these services *were*
privately privated, do you think that's the way it would really work? This
is what contracts are for. You sign a contract with the private fire
department for service at a set fee. If they broke the contract and tried
to extort a higher price, you sue them. A friend of mine moved to Denver
and when the moving company delivered the furniture they tried to "extort" a
higher fee than the estimate. She paid it, in order to have the furtniture
unloaded, and is suing them in small claims court. As I mentioned in
another thread, who do you think pursued Butch and Sundance so relentlessly
("Who *is* that guy?) He was a Pinkerton or some other private cop hired by
the railroad. How often to the police *prevent* crimes as opposed to trying
to solve them after the fact? If there were no police, we would have to be
armed or hire bodyguards. Of course, many people to that anyway. Do you
think common street crime would occur more or less frequently if criminals
suspected that their potential victims were armed? Sure, the more guns, the
more accidental deaths and injuries from them, but the less crime also. Is
it intuitively obvious which is a better situation? If drugs were legalized
and the price were lower, there would be more drug use. I agree that, by
itself, is bad, but think of the blow to organized crime, and the reduction
in crimes committed by drug users because they could get drugs more cheaply?
You have to open your mind and think outside the box a little.
Bob Harper
on balance Wal-Mart has been a positive or a negative. The market seems
to think it's been a positive. Others disagree. The point is, I'd rather
let individuals make up their minds (I don't, personally, shop there,
for example) rather than have someone making that decision for me.
Bob Harper
Bob Harper
I *did* say 'frequently', not 'always'. There *are* legitimate state
functions, among which police and fire protection would rank high on the
lists of most people, Right or Left. I do believe, however, that
Scottsdale, AZ functioned quite well for a number of years with private
fire service; may still do, for all I know. It wouldn't be impossible,
probably as a kind of regulated monopoly.
Bob Harper
Gerard
>
> Possibly the worst straw dog argument I've ever seen. I'm not
> necessarily advocating privatizing police and fire,but if these
> services *were* privately privated, do you think that's the way it
> would really work? This is what contracts are for. You sign a
> contract with the private fire department for service at a set fee.
> If they broke the contract and tried to extort a higher price, you
> sue them. A friend of mine moved to Denver and when the moving
> company delivered the furniture they tried to "extort" a higher fee
> than the estimate. She paid it, in order to have the furtniture
> unloaded, and is suing them in small claims court. As I mentioned in
> another thread, who do you think pursued Butch and Sundance so
> relentlessly ("Who *is* that guy?) He was a Pinkerton or some other
> private cop hired by the railroad. How often to the police *prevent*
> crimes as opposed to trying to solve them after the fact? If there
> were no police, we would have to be armed or hire bodyguards. Of
> course, many people to that anyway. Do you think common street crime
> would occur more or less frequently if criminals suspected that their
> potential victims were armed? Sure, the more guns, the more
> accidental deaths and injuries from them, but the less crime also.
Is this the real situation in a country with the greatest number of guns per
citizen?
(And the greatest number of prisoners per citizen.)
Gerard
> Kip Williams wrote:
> > Bob Harper wrote:
> > > Frank Berger wrote:
> >
> > > > You've made our point, Allen. The fact is that reasonable,
> > > > reasoning, caring people differ on how to maximize the public
> > > > good. It's sad that you can't see that.
> > > >
> > > As usual, Frank gets it right.
> >
> > You forgot to capitalize Right.
> >
> >
> > Kip W
>
> the Left and the Right.
In a "Liberian" way of seeing only.
Gerard
Is "the State" an enemy or something you've elected yourself?
Bob Lombard
>
> Is this the real situation in a country with the greatest number of guns per
> citizen?
> (And the greatest number of prisoners per citizen.)
>
>
If you visit I promise not to shoot you - unless I don't like your
looks or attitude.
bl
Taree Dawg
I knew several (very well heeled radiologists) who lived in a closed
security village in North Carolina. Hardly the way to go really.
> Do you
> think common street crime would occur more or less frequently if criminals
> suspected that their potential victims were armed? Sure, the more guns, the
> more accidental deaths and injuries from them, but the less crime also.
So, more deaths and injuries are preferable then? Gads. And I notice you
slipped in the word 'accidental'. The word 'incidental' applies here.
> Is
> it intuitively obvious which is a better situation? If drugs were legalized
> and the price were lower, there would be more drug use.
But then this would be the same as the effects of alcohol. Here is a
case where you seem to want government intervention, and in any case,
isn't this a case of real freedom for the individual?
> I agree that, by
> itself, is bad, but think of the blow to organized crime, and the reduction
> in crimes committed by drug users because they could get drugs more cheaply?
I actually agree with this. The same should apply to health care, where
the state provides good basic welfare for ALL. Not simply allowing
'freedoms' for the few rich.
> You have to open your mind and think outside the box a little.
Thinking outside your box might actually do you some good. It seems you
are halfway there.
Ray Hall, Taree
Roland van Gaalen
Frank Berger <frank.d...@dal.frb.org> schreef:
True (you have a point) but how about Hayek's "serfdom" -- was he right in
believing (? *) that government intervention (beyond the level of law
enforcement, courts, the police, the military) inevitably turns people into
slaves?
(*) I read his "Road to Serfdom" many years ago.
Taree Dawg
Anarchy and the consequent total freedom to the individual, is an
'American' thing Gerard. It will gradually die away. The wedge of
reality will drive it.
Ray Hall, Taree
Roland van Gaalen
I agree but government also exists to "spread the wealth around", at least
to some extent.
This, too, begs the question -- where do you draw the line?
JohnGavin
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 07:31:57 -0800, Bob Harper
>
>
>
>
>
> <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >ansermetniac wrote:
> >> On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:08:13 -0800, Bob Harper
> >> <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >>> Frank Berger wrote:
> >>>> Dave Cook wrote:
> >>>>> On 2009-12-13, Allen <all...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>> When you look at how the majority votes down here, nothing should
> >>>>>> should surprise you.
> >>>>> Houston has just elected an openly Lesbian mayor, so there are pockets
> >>>>> of tolerance down there. Still, I'd probably go out of my way to
> >>>>> avoid traveling through Texas. (I did live in Austin for a few years,
> >>>>> though that may not count as Texas.)
>
> >>>>> Dave Cook
> >>>> As a Libertarian/Conservative, I find I have no problem visiting "liberal"
> >>>> places or interacting with "liberal" people. Obviously, people of different
> >>>> political stripes have to be careful when discussing politics. But when we
> >>>> respect each other despite certain differences, we can get along fine. I
> >>>> find your attitutude bigoted, frankly.
>
> >>> As do I. The vast majority of conservatives have a 'live and let live'
> >>> attitude about other peoples' politics and attitudes. We do, of course,
> >>> sometimes attempt to see our positions recognized, as is our right in a
> >>> free society. We just don't like being told that we are somehow
> >>> 'intolerant' if we don't buy into the Zeitgeist.
>
> >>> Aretha Franklin had it right: R-E-S-P-E-C-T.
>
> >>> Bob Harper
>
> >> goes on in his name vis a vis the conservative hate mongering war
> >> mongering Christians of the USA and those who want liberty to stalk
> >> and kill their prey economically
>
> >> A Conservative Christian????
>
> >> ROTFLMAO
>
> >> Abbedd
> >I've resisted dignifying your recent spew with any comment, but I'll
> >give in this once. Clearly, your understanding of Christianity is on a
> >par with your understanding of recorded sound, with similar results. You
> >would do well to retire for a period of reflection, though I realize
> >that recommendation will go for naught.
>
> >Bob Harper
>
>
> Christianity is based upon foolishness and blasphemy
>
That statement is typical of the brashness, arrogance and conceit that
is so typical ........
You cry anti-semitism day in and day out, yet you issue statements
like the above.
At least Christians haven't become athiests by the millions, unlike
members of other faiths.
Roland van Gaalen
I can't argue with that -- but if it is true that Wal-Mart is wiping out
small-town America, then etc.
A disaster, in my opinion, unless the rumors aren't true.
Kip Williams
Hey, nobody move! Somebody stole one of my prisoners.
Kip W
Kip Williams
> I *did* say 'frequently', not 'always'. There *are* legitimate state
> functions, among which police and fire protection would rank high on the
> lists of most people, Right or Left. I do believe, however, that
> Scottsdale, AZ functioned quite well for a number of years with private
> fire service; may still do, for all I know. It wouldn't be impossible,
> probably as a kind of regulated monopoly.
I remember being grateful for the volunteer firemen in the rural part of
Texas my grandparents lived in. We battled a brush fire by the Winan's
Creek place and maybe kept it from getting worse, but we all cheered and
applauded when the experts showed up.
Kip W
Kip Williams
> Kip Williams wrote:
>> Bob Harper wrote:
>>> Frank Berger wrote:
>>
>>>> You've made our point, Allen. The fact is that reasonable,
>>>> reasoning, caring people differ on how to maximize the public good.
>>>> It's sad that you can't see that.
>>>>
>>> As usual, Frank gets it right.
>>
>>
> Left and the Right.
As you are acting in the capacity of a shill for right-wing interests,
it seems fair to include you in their number. Just don't expect a
paycheck from them. ("Just because you're on their side doesn't mean
they're on your side.")
Kip W
ansermetniac
Yiour rebuttal is pathetic
Try again
Abbedd
Bob Harper
(snip)
>
> True (you have a point) but how about Hayek's "serfdom" -- was he right in
> believing (? *) that government intervention (beyond the level of law
> enforcement, courts, the police, the military) inevitably turns people into
> slaves?
>
> (*) I read his "Road to Serfdom" many years ago.
> --
> Roland van Gaalen
> Amsterdam
> R.P.vanGaalenATchello.nl
>
It's not inevitable, I suppose, but the temptation is always there, and
is always strong.
Recall the words of Wendell Phillips (American abolitionist): "Eternal
vigilance is the price of liberty."
Or Edmund Burke: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is
for good men to do nothing."
and
"Those who have been once intoxicated with power and have derived any
kind of emolument from it can never willingly abandon it."
Bob Harper
Allen
to tax those who put money in the economy through sales taxes, not those
who take money out through salaries (income taxes) so the the fattest
cats keep all the fat. The FRB employee Berger will say that's a straw
dog, but so what?
Allen
Allen
believe they are starting some healthcare benefits for their hourly
people. The next time you go into one of the major nationwide banks for
a teller transaction, ask the teller about his/her benefits. You will
find that practically are part-time, all their benefits are their
paychecks. Incidentally, I judge how an organization treats its
employees by how the employees treat the customers. My experience with
Wal-Mart is that their employees generally treat the customers well,
actually much better than Costco--if you can ever find one when you need
one in a Costco store.
Allen
ansermetniac
wrote:
> My experience with
>Wal-Mart is that their employees generally treat the customers well,
Not in mine. They are stupid and hate being there
Abbedd
Roland van Gaalen
> Roland van Gaalen wrote:
>> Frank Berger <frank.d...@dal.frb.org> schreef:
>>
>>> David Oberman wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:22:34 -0500, ansermetniac
>>>> <anserm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Governments wsere created to protect us from a free market.
>>>> So if you decided to sell me your CD of Nathan Milstein performing the
>>>> Bach partitas for X dollars & I agreed to the price, the government
>>>> should step in somehow to "protect" us?
>>>>
>>>> Interesting.
>>> Well, he's not entirely wrong. Government properly exists to "fix"
>>> situations where the free market doesn't work well. Such cases are often,
>>> even for me, easy to identify.
>>> The problem is how to keep government,
>>> because of its tendancy to grow without restraint to inflict us with
>>> unintentended consequences of its policies, from making things worse.
>>>
>>
>> I agree but government also exists to "spread the wealth around", at least
>> to some extent.
>>
>> This, too, begs the question -- where do you draw the line?
> You will never ever convince the misnamed far "right" of that. They want
> to tax those who put money in the economy through sales taxes, not those
> who take money out through salaries (income taxes) so the the fattest
> cats keep all the fat.
I suppose one subjective argument in favor of a general sales tax (at least
on those fairly simple goods that are consumed more or less immediately by
the buyer) is that it appears to make sense to tax people in proportion to
how much they actually consume.
Wealth that is invested remains available to the economy, after all.
On the other hand, I suppose owner-occupied real estate and certain highly
durable goods would require separate treatment.
Is taxing consumption necessarily less fair (whatever that means) than
taxing income?
I for one don't think the idea is completely crazy or extremely right-wing.
Dave Cook
> As a Libertarian/Conservative
Mathematically, that's (asshole)^2.
Dave Cook
Frank Berger
You're a smart guy, Ray. How could you misunderstand what I wrote. Is it
not possible that the reduction in crime (and injuries and death associated
with that crime) and the makes up for the "incidental" casualties resulting
from increased gun ownership?
>
>
>> Is
>> it intuitively obvious which is a better situation? If drugs were
>> legalized and the price were lower, there would be more drug use.
>
> But then this would be the same as the effects of alcohol. Here is a
> case where you seem to want government intervention, and in any case,
> isn't this a case of real freedom for the individual?
>
I don't know what you're talking about here.
>
>> I agree that, by
>> itself, is bad, but think of the blow to organized crime, and the
>> reduction in crimes committed by drug users because they could get
>> drugs more cheaply?
>
> I actually agree with this. The same should apply to health care,
> where the state provides good basic welfare for ALL. Not simply
> allowing 'freedoms' for the few rich.
>
Have you read the links I posted about health care reform? There are
problems with the health care system that are mostly government-caused.
Government can make it worse.
>
Frank Berger
It may well be that it is inevitable that government will grow too big. The
founding fathers tried to prevent it and failed.
Frank Berger
Well, we don't have simple majority rule. In a constitutional democracy,
the preferences of the people and their elected representatives are supposed
to be constrained. President Madison's explanation of his veto of a public
works bill in 1817 is illustrative.
http://www.constitution.org/jm/18170303_veto.htm
Frank Berger
Huh?
Frank Berger
Whenever there is technological change there is dislocation of resources
during the period of adjustment,. So when malls arise, downtowns suffer.
Maybe for years. I wonder, though, if on balance, government intevention
to "save" downtowns have simply extended the period of adjustment.