Received: by 10.224.78.209 with SMTP id m17mr14278820qak.3.1349767373843; Tue, 09 Oct 2012 00:22:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.201.134 with SMTP id b6mr1931104yho.15.1349767373818; Tue, 09 Oct 2012 00:22:53 -0700 (PDT) Path: r17ni19qap.0!nntp.google.com!l8no32394482qao.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 00:22:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5ca4eb72-8e1c-4952-8c67-68142b2aeea3@googlegroups.com> Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=66.69.201.17; posting-account=4VtD5wkAAACp9qyi1OEfPiaf7FN5KHBt NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.69.201.17 References: <210985d4-49c5-4080-ba7e-70e8ed866205@n9g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> <46d07cdc-f39c-404d-a48c-2adc366ca045@googlegroups.com> <85afc90d-c4a9-47b0-9c0e-a8b8dc044ae0@googlegroups.com> <5ba0dac2-83fe-4564-bfbd-1399bf5b8cef@googlegroups.com> <3c931eda-df06-46a6-8cff-0f58d505c4f4@googlegroups.com> <08e9e5cf-0afb-44f9-a3c6-0702915e322e@googlegroups.com> <5ca4eb72-8e1c-4952-8c67-68142b2aeea3@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <78fefc92-49fc-45c4-a97b-634605fd1cde@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: New Blog Post-Seating Position From: Richard Jernigan Injection-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 07:22:53 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 8:54:32 PM UTC-5, Fadosolr=E9lamisi wrote: > Le mercredi 19 septembre 2012 13:54:12 UTC-7, Matt Faunce a =E9crit=A0: >=20 > > On 9/19/12 11:11 AM, Douglas Seth wrote: >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > > On Sep 19, 10:49 am, Fadosolr=E9lamisi wrote: >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> Le mercredi 19 septembre 2012 06:16:38 UTC-7, Murdick a =E9crit : >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>> On Tuesday, September 18, 2012 1:20:09 PM UTC-5, Cactus Wren wrote: >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>> Somehow, I don't think your history lesson is going to change Kent= 's view of folk music. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>> Grisha mentioned on the flamenco forum that he couldn't quite get = Conde's speed, but close! Interestingly, over there they had compared Cond= e's position to Grisha's (and Sabicas'), as opposed to Paco's. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>> On Tuesday, September 18, 2012 12:51:26 AM UTC-7, Richard Jernigan= wrote: >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>> On Tuesday, September 18, 2012 2:42:58 AM UTC-5, Richard Jernigan= wrote: >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>> On Monday, September 17, 2012 3:02:23 PM UTC-5, Murdick wrote: >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>>> On Monday, September 17, 2012 12:54:46 PM UTC-5, Cactus Wren wr= ote: >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>>>> Kent, >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>>>> please see this video, around 4:50 and then go back to your sa= x playing. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=3Dplayer_embedded&v=3Dfqw= OqWvqnlw#! >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>>>> On Monday, September 17, 2012 9:01:48 AM UTC-7, Murdick wrote: >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>>>>> On Sunday, September 16, 2012 10:08:42 PM UTC-5, JPD wrote: >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, September 16, 2012 5:36:02 PM UTC-7, Murdick wrot= e: >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>>>>>>> Ahh, the joys of basic research. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>>>>>> I've been doing some basic research on i-m alternation with = a cool camera that captures 1,000 frames per second. Not very expensive, ei= ther, for such a video camera. Got it new from Japan through eBay. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>>>>>> What I'm watching in particular are the differences between = i and m. My m is fantastic. I'm trying to get it to teach my i. But they ar= e very different fingers. In particular, i at rest is much more extended th= an m at rest. In Arpeggios, I think my i would be happier playing one strin= g higher than m, rather than lower, frankly. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>>>>>> The problem at the moment is that, compared with m, i has to= flex several degrees tighter (away from midrange) in order to play the nex= t-lower string in an arpeggio. In a fast, continuous arpeggio, this encoura= ges i to accumulate tension. It has to do more flexing than m to hit the st= ring, and it tends to want to *stay* flexed. Mine does, anyway. m is much m= ore relaxed, doing all of its work cloer to midrange. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>>>>>> The same goes for i-m alternation on a single string. i hard= ly has time to return to midrange before it has to turn around and flex aga= in. The only way to get it to relax all the way out to midrange is to great= ly overshoot the string on return. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>>>>>> I'm guessing that when I was decades younger and a hot playe= r, my i was conditioned to be more relaxed in a more flexed position. (Shea= rer's "prepared" position.) Nowadays, when my i returns to the prepared pos= ition, it's not relaxed at all. I have to extend it quite a bit farther to = get to its relaxed midrange. So it's way out of position, or so it feels. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>>>>>> I was looking at some slo-mo video of an older Yamashita the= other day. He was playing blazing fast i-m alternation, and I noticed he w= as really overshooting the return with i. Taking a BIG swing with i, compar= ed with m. "Swinging from the heels," as they say in baseball. I wonder if = that's something he developed as he got older. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>>>>>> Anyway, it's interesting fooling around with this slo-mo vid= eo cam. Basic research. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>>>>> Ok, you will be on my list of people to send a video to. It c= ould be that a problem with 'm' affects 'i'. That is due to 'm''s lack of = independence from 'i', tension builds and both fingers begin to lose coordi= nation. Even though my 'i' has good independence 'm', as I speed up, the wh= ole im complex tenses up and 'i' starts getting quirky. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>>> Cactus says, "Kent, >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>>> please see this video, around 4:50 and then go back to your sax= playing." >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>>> A) he's playing folk music >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>> Javier is playing a piece by Agustin Castellon Campos "Sabicas" = a sophisticated composer, though probably technically illiterate in music. = Sabicas claimed he did not read or write musical notation, though for someo= ne of his talent, this was unnecessary to develop beautifully balanced comp= ositions of several minutes length. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>> Javier has copped the piece off a recording, pretty accurately. = The recording is just a snapshot of Sabicas's continually evolving composit= ions in this genre, known as sole=E1. There are a multitude of sub-genres o= f sole=E1. Sabicas was proficient in all of them as an accompanist of dance= rs, of singers, and as a soloist. This is not :folk music in the sense of s= imple stuff handed down over generations. It is a sophisticated composition= by a master, but Sabicas never played a piece the same way twice. It was a= lways evolving. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>> Javier, good as he is, doesn't convey the nuances of Sabicas's= playing. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>>> B) he may (or may not) be tearing himself up. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>> Whether Javier is tearing himself up remains to be seen. His tec= hnique differs a bit from Sabicas, who remained a virtuoso player into his = late seventies. Javier's i-m technique is a little more like Paco de Lucia'= s than Sabicas's. Paco is 65 and still smokin'. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>>> Now I will go back to my saxophone, which is getting better, BT= W.Here's an >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>> Here's another dose of flamenco from Grisha Goryachev, a graduat= e of the New England Conservatory and student of Eliot Fisk. But he was pla= ying concerts with his father in Russia when he was 12, or maybe younger, a= lready with that machine-gun i-m speed. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>> This is a piece by Paco de Lucia. It is more like jazz than Sabi= cas's through-composed stuff--a sequence of variations on a chord progressi= on and metric pattern. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DgMCak0-0WNw&feature=3Dplayer_em= bedded >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>>> RNJ >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>> We saw Grisha at an Austin Classical Guitar Society concert at a = private house Saturday night, with an audience of about 65. He and jeremy M= ouffe played both flamenco and classical and brought the house down, with t= wo standing ovations. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>> When we talked to Grisha afterwards he said he wasn't feeling par= ticularly well. He had his doubts about the performance, but once he got in= to it he forgot about having the flu. Technically he was as good as the vid= eo, but for a live audience there was more expression and passion. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>>>> RNJ >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>> Speed has (almost) nothing to do with seating , at least in the sho= rt term. We learn to hold our instruments in a advantageous position in or= der to facilitate learning and to keep the human machine working throughout= our >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >>> lives. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > >> My latest acquisition, the large Dynarette cushion, is definitely th= e way to go for me, finally something (I mean a guitar accesory) that suit = me! No clunky noise, stable and reliable... eh! it may even prolong my guit= ar life of a good 5 to 10 years! >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > > >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > > The dynarette cushion is good, but like I said in the video, it's not >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > > really adjustable. If your seat is too high, it won't be high enough. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > > It works great with a folding chair. If you aren't gigging or >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > > performing, it's fine. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > >=20 >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > The dynarette squeaks when the guitar moves on top of it. It's an issue= =20 >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > when recording. If you're one of these players that doesn't move it=20 >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > might not matter. I don't move much but apparently enough to makes=20 >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > squeaks. Other than that I love it. I need to find a nice piece of clot= h=20 >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > to throw over it when recording. I use the dynarette for gigs, but I=20 >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > always bring my own stool. If the venue has a stool that's the right=20 >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > height (seat to foot rung), then I'll use theirs, but if not I have min= e. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > >=20 >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > --=20 >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > Matt >=20 >=20 >=20 > Squeak far less than the murata (which was almost as squeaky as a pirate = ship!) >=20 > I still have to use a very low foot stool with the dynarette (2 " of the = ground) ... this is my third try at one of these so called "guitar support"= ... in a few years I'll probably try the neck up or what ever will be in v= ogue ... I choose the murata a few years ago because of the unpredictabilit= y of the suction cups (I was using an ergo play) ...My Dynarette cushion ha= sn't squeak yet and when the guitar is placed it I almost do not notice it. I sat on the front row for the L.A. Guitar Quartet's concert here in Austin= night before last. Kanengiser used a Dynarette and a low footstool under h= is left foot. Dearman used just a footstool set quite high. Greif used just= a footstool at moderate height. Tennant held the guitaar in the old-time f= lamenco position, somewhat supported by his ample abdomen. They all exhibit= ed technical and musical virtuosity of the highest degree. RNJ