It's ok. You are better off with Scott Tennant's book and DVD.
I bought it 20 years ago. I never heard of Lee Ryan. I wouldn't pay
$100 for it. I you will, let me know. I'll make a package deal with
the Segovia Technique.
No, just ok. For $100, that is 100 minutes of instruction from me. I
assure you, I could teach you more about your playing in that amount
of time than a book ever will.
> > No, just ok. For $100, that is 100 minutes of instruction from me. I
> > assure you, I could teach you more about your playing in that amount
> > of time than a book ever will.
> Let me second Doug's comment.
If the guy has the juice, let's see his students. That's all that matters. If a famous guy (like Ryan who has access to many talented, hard working students), hasn't produced several strong concert players, then he can't teach.
> > > No, just ok. For $100, that is 100 minutes of instruction from me. I
> > > assure you, I could teach you more about your playing in that amount
> > > of time than a book ever will.
> > Let me second Doug's comment.
> If the guy has the juice, let's see his students. That's all that matters. If a famous guy (like Ryan who has access to many talented, hard working students), hasn't produced several strong concert players, then he can't teach.
This is very true. I said this more to make a point than self
promotion. You could learn more from any good teacher 100 minutes than
most books. I was just saying the other day to someone about the
massive amont of excellent players to come out of APSU in the last 15
years. It's just crazy, but that's what a successful college program
does.
I met one of his students one time. His girlfried was an MD out in Sun City (an old retirement community here) and she hired me to play for his party since she knew he used to play CG. He said that he was one of Ryan's first students. I don't know if he could play, he eventually became a marine biologist.
This whole "where are his concert players" line is tiresome and way overblown. If Barrueco had elected to study with the "famous" Ryan, he would be awesome. He would have been awesome even if he had studied with me.
> > > No, just ok. For $100, that is 100 minutes of instruction from me. I
> > > assure you, I could teach you more about your playing in that amount
> > > of time than a book ever will.
> > Let me second Doug's comment.
> If the guy has the juice, let's see his students. That's all that matters. If a famous guy (like Ryan who has access to many talented, hard working students), hasn't produced several strong concert players, then he can't teach.
On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 6:22:34 AM UTC-7, Douglas Seth wrote:
> You could learn more from any good teacher > 100 minutes than most books.
I fear this is true. You've caused me to remember my astonishment when I took my first lesson from Jack Sanders. And that was within just the first five minutes.
> I met one of his students one time. His girlfried was an MD out in Sun City (an old retirement community here) and she hired me to play for his party since she knew he used to play CG. He said that he was one of Ryan's first students. I don't know if he could play, he eventually became a marine biologist.
> This whole "where are his concert players" line is tiresome and way overblown. If Barrueco had elected to study with the "famous" Ryan, he would be awesome. He would have been awesome even if he had studied with me.
This is true, it's always the player, not the teacher. The one guy that I taught should be awesome but his playing just makes me anxious and tense. The guy's hand is so stiff that it resembles an eagle claw rather than a human hand. OTOH, he don't roll his chords - he can't roll his chords so that's good, right? That's the breaks.
OTOH, he had a dream of being a musician and gave up the easy life for the hard. That guy was hard head and always believed in himself. He even rejected my suggestion that he play a right handed guitar when we went downtown to find his first guitar. He did it his way so I gotta hand him that.
>>>> No, just ok. For $100, that is 100 minutes of instruction from me. I
>>>> assure you, I could teach you more about your playing in that amount
>>>> of time than a book ever will.
>>> Let me second Doug's comment.
>> If the guy has the juice, let's see his students. That's all that matters. If a famous guy (like Ryan who has access to many talented, hard working students), hasn't produced several strong concert players, then he can't teach.
This may or may not apply to your friend, but "being a musician" and "making your living playing music" are two different things. If someone wants to fulfill their potential as a muscian, that's different than thinking they can find enough money to pay rent, etc. with it.
That being said, you have to admire someone who puts his money where his mouth is!
On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 12:49:42 PM UTC-7, dsi1 wrote:
> On 10/3/2012 5:53 AM, Cactus Wren wrote:
> > I met one of his students one time. His girlfried was an MD out in Sun City (an old retirement community here) and she hired me to play for his party since she knew he used to play CG. He said that he was one of Ryan's first students. I don't know if he could play, he eventually became a marine biologist.
> > This whole "where are his concert players" line is tiresome and way overblown. If Barrueco had elected to study with the "famous" Ryan, he would be awesome. He would have been awesome even if he had studied with me.
> This is true, it's always the player, not the teacher. The one guy that
> I taught should be awesome but his playing just makes me anxious and
> tense. The guy's hand is so stiff that it resembles an eagle claw rather
> than a human hand. OTOH, he don't roll his chords - he can't roll his
> chords so that's good, right? That's the breaks.
> OTOH, he had a dream of being a musician and gave up the easy life for
> the hard. That guy was hard head and always believed in himself. He even
> rejected my suggestion that he play a right handed guitar when we went
> downtown to find his first guitar. He did it his way so I gotta hand him
> that.
> > On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 5:48:09 AM UTC-7, Murdick wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:41:29 AM UTC-5, Murdick wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, October 2, 2012 7:34:20 PM UTC-5, Douglas Seth wrote:
> >>>> On Oct 2, 5:45 pm, "Alphonsus Jr." <alphonsu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> No, just ok. For $100, that is 100 minutes of instruction from me. I
> >>>> assure you, I could teach you more about your playing in that amount
> >>>> of time than a book ever will.
> >>> Let me second Doug's comment.
> >> If the guy has the juice, let's see his students. That's all that matters. If a famous guy (like Ryan who has access to many talented, hard working students), hasn't produced several strong concert players, then he can't teach.
> This may or may not apply to your friend, but "being a musician" and "making your living playing music" are two different things. If someone wants to fulfill their potential as a muscian, that's different than thinking they can find enough money to pay rent, etc. with it.
> That being said, you have to admire someone who puts his money where his mouth is!
Typically people with a lot of talent will have teachers that will want them to turn pro and be famous so that they can live vicariously through them but in this case, I thought him trying to make a living out of it was a serious mistake. Life is sure funny.
On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 12:49:42 PM UTC-7, dsi1 wrote:
> This is true, it's always the player, not the teacher.
I can't agree. A good teacher is able to identify and cultivate what talent a student has. A less than good teacher can't do this.
Possibly even more disastrously, the less than good teacher might erroneously give a student with little talent the impression that said student should do something other than quit. He might tell him, for example, that he should "follow his passion." This would be bad teaching.
Otoh, the good teacher would say, "Yes, I know that your passion is to play the guitar. But friend, I'm sorry, you have little musical talent. You'd be wasting your time and hurting many ears. What's more, I'd feel like a robber if I continued to take your money. No, don't follow your passion. Now, I understand that you're an excellent writer, but you're not passionate about this so you've given it up. I urge you to reconsider. Write, friend, write! The passion will follow...."
On Oct 3, 6:04 pm, "Alphonsus Jr." <alphonsu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Otoh, the good teacher would say, "Yes, I know that your passion is to play the guitar. But friend, I'm sorry, you have little musical talent. You'd be wasting your time and hurting many ears. What's more, I'd feel like a robber if I continued to take your money. No, don't follow your passion. Now, I understand that you're an excellent writer, but you're not passionate about this so you've given it up. I urge you to reconsider. Write, friend, write! The passion will follow...."
I can't wait to hear Learnwell's response to this. :-)
On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 10:53:04 AM UTC-5, Cactus Wren wrote:
> I met one of his students one time. His girlfried was an MD out in Sun City (an old retirement community here) and she hired me to play for his party since she knew he used to play CG. He said that he was one of Ryan's first students. I don't know if he could play, he eventually became a marine biologist.
> This whole "where are his concert players" line is tiresome and way overblown. If Barrueco had elected to study with the "famous" Ryan, he would be awesome. He would have been awesome even if he had studied with me.
> On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 5:48:09 AM UTC-7, Murdick wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:41:29 AM UTC-5, Murdick wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, October 2, 2012 7:34:20 PM UTC-5, Douglas Seth wrote:
> > > > On Oct 2, 5:45 pm, "Alphonsus Jr." <alphonsu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > No, just ok. For $100, that is 100 minutes of instruction from me. I
> > > > assure you, I could teach you more about your playing in that amount
> > > > of time than a book ever will.
> > > Let me second Doug's comment.
> > If the guy has the juice, let's see his students. That's all that matters. If a famous guy (like Ryan who has access to many talented, hard working students), hasn't produced several strong concert players, then he can't teach.
Cactus says: "This whole "where are his concert players" line is tiresome and way overblown. If Barrueco had elected to study with the "famous" Ryan, he would be awesome. He would have been awesome even if he had studied with me."
No and no to those two statements. If you know what you are doing (and most college/ university guitar professors don't), and you get a lot of talented, hard working students, you will crank out a lot of very fine players. My guess is that Barrueco would ave quit the guitar had he studied with Ryan.
Barrueco could already play the Chaconne when he met Shearer. I don't see why he should get a medal for not making him quit the guitar. It's probably indelicate to say you quit the guitar despite studying with AS.
I also wonder where are these magical places where teachers get these processions of talented, hard working classical guitar students?
On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 3:47:33 PM UTC-7, Murdick wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 10:53:04 AM UTC-5, Cactus Wren wrote:
> > I met one of his students one time. His girlfried was an MD out in Sun City (an old retirement community here) and she hired me to play for his party since she knew he used to play CG. He said that he was one of Ryan's first students. I don't know if he could play, he eventually became a marine biologist.
> > This whole "where are his concert players" line is tiresome and way overblown. If Barrueco had elected to study with the "famous" Ryan, he would be awesome. He would have been awesome even if he had studied with me.
> > On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 5:48:09 AM UTC-7, Murdick wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:41:29 AM UTC-5, Murdick wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, October 2, 2012 7:34:20 PM UTC-5, Douglas Seth wrote:
> > > > > On Oct 2, 5:45 pm, "Alphonsus Jr." <alphonsu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > No, just ok. For $100, that is 100 minutes of instruction from me. I
> > > > > assure you, I could teach you more about your playing in that amount
> > > > > of time than a book ever will.
> > > > Let me second Doug's comment.
> > > If the guy has the juice, let's see his students. That's all that matters. If a famous guy (like Ryan who has access to many talented, hard working students), hasn't produced several strong concert players, then he can't teach.
> Cactus says: "This whole "where are his concert players" line is tiresome and way overblown. If Barrueco had elected to study with the "famous" Ryan, he would be awesome. He would have been awesome even if he had studied with me."
> No and no to those two statements. If you know what you are doing (and most college/ university guitar professors don't), and you get a lot of talented, hard working students, you will crank out a lot of very fine players. My guess is that Barrueco would ave quit the guitar had he studied with Ryan.
> On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 12:49:42 PM UTC-7, dsi1 wrote:
>> This is true, it's always the player, not the teacher.
> I can't agree. A good teacher is able to identify and cultivate what talent a student has. A less than good teacher can't do this.
I know a couple of people with talent. They do their own thing and do not wait around expecting teachers to spoon feed them instruction. They are active learners. For these people, all they need is to learn the basics of reading and then stay out of their way and let them do what they want.
Most students, however, are passive learners and either they get the spark and take off or they remain passive. The reality is that an active learner will learn to excel on his own and teachers cannot hold them back. A passive student will be blown around by the teacher and the winds of chance. I don't think that a teacher should try to micro-manage a student's hand position. Any damage or poor habits will come from doing this. That's just my opinion although, I gotta say, it is awesome.
> Possibly even more disastrously, the less than good teacher might erroneously give a student with little talent the impression that said student should do something other than quit. He might tell him, for example, that he should "follow his passion." This would be bad teaching.
I believe that teachers should just try to make the lessons interesting and try to stay away from commenting on the student's progress. The worst thing is the student that doesn't want to learn. They should be dropped like an uncle that believes himself to be a duck. OTOH, you just might need the eggs. :-)
> Otoh, the good teacher would say, "Yes, I know that your passion is to play the guitar. But friend, I'm sorry, you have little musical talent. You'd be wasting your time and hurting many ears. What's more, I'd feel like a robber if I continued to take your money. No, don't follow your passion. Now, I understand that you're an excellent writer, but you're not passionate about this so you've given it up. I urge you to reconsider. Write, friend, write! The passion will follow...."
> Barrueco could already play the Chaconne when he met Shearer. I don't see why he should get a medal for not making him quit the guitar. It's probably indelicate to say you quit the guitar despite studying with AS.
My teacher studied with Segovia. He could hardly hide his disgust when he was asked about it. He said nothing and turned his head as if to spit.
OTOH, he obviously loved his other teacher, Siegfried Behrend. He brought Herr Behrend to this rock to play a concert. It was most memorable. Afterwards, they were chatting away in German. That was a shock since he never said more than a few words to me at one sitting.
I was invited to go have some drinks with the group at the Columbia Inn after the concert but I didn't like doing that kind of thing and made up some kind of lame excuse. Now that I think about it, that was a mistake. As an instructor, Herr Behrend was highly respected and if my teacher was any indication, beloved.
> On Oct 3, 6:04 pm, "Alphonsus Jr." <alphonsu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Otoh, the good teacher would say, "Yes, I know that your passion is to play the guitar. But friend, I'm sorry, you have little musical talent. You'd be wasting your time and hurting many ears. What's more, I'd feel like a robber if I continued to take your money. No, don't follow your passion. Now, I understand that you're an excellent writer, but you're not passionate about this so you've given it up. I urge you to reconsider. Write, friend, write! The passion will follow...."
> I can't wait to hear Learnwell's response to this. :-)
On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 4:05:54 PM UTC-7, Cactus Wren wrote:
> I also wonder where are these magical > places where teachers get these processions > of talented, hard working classical guitar students?
Yes, I've raised an interesting ethical issue. Should a teacher who recognizes that his student possesses little talent nevertheless continue to take that student's money?
I suppose it depends on the student's goals.
If the student wishes only to amuse himself, which is no small thing, then I say the teacher may rightly continue to take his money.
Or if a parent wishes the lessons to primarily serve as character training, I say again that the teacher can rightly continue to take the money.
If, however, the untalented student is deluded and consequently thinks he has the talent to become a concert musician, I say the teacher is duty-bound to cease teaching that student. Otherwise he'd do that person great harm.
The good teacher's credo is the same as the good doctor's: "First, do no harm."
Of course, the possibly fatal rejoinder to me is that it's impossible to accurately determine whether a particular student has some latent talent that hasn't yet been uncovered. Thus one might say that a teacher may rightly soldier on even with apparently untalented students.
But really, aren't there some students who make it perfectly clear that there's no latent talent to uncover? And then one might say this: Even if there is such latent talent, if a teacher THINKS there isn't, this triggers the duty to no longer take that student's money.
On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 6:30:43 PM UTC-5, dsi1 wrote:
> On 10/3/2012 1:05 PM, Cactus Wren wrote:
> > Barrueco could already play the Chaconne when he met Shearer. I don't see why he should get a medal for not making him quit the guitar. It's probably indelicate to say you quit the guitar despite studying with AS.
> My teacher studied with Segovia. He could hardly hide his disgust when
> he was asked about it. He said nothing and turned his head as if to spit.
> OTOH, he obviously loved his other teacher, Siegfried Behrend. He
> brought Herr Behrend to this rock to play a concert. It was most
> memorable. Afterwards, they were chatting away in German. That was a
> shock since he never said more than a few words to me at one sitting.
> I was invited to go have some drinks with the group at the Columbia Inn
> after the concert but I didn't like doing that kind of thing and made up
> some kind of lame excuse. Now that I think about it, that was a mistake.
> As an instructor, Herr Behrend was highly respected and if my teacher
> was any indication, beloved.
> > I also wonder where are these magical places where teachers get these processions of talented, hard working classical guitar students?
Neither Behrend nor Segovia knew shit for shinola about the classical guitar.
On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:18:29 PM UTC-5, Alphonsus Jr. wrote:
> Of course, the possibly fatal rejoinder to me is that it's impossible to accurately determine whether a particular student has some latent talent that hasn't yet been uncovered. Thus one might say that a teacher may rightly soldier on even with apparently untalented students.
> But really, aren't there some students who make it perfectly clear that there's no latent talent to uncover? And then one might say this: Even if there is such latent talent, if a teacher THINKS there isn't, this triggers the duty to no longer take that student's money.
Hey Jackson, check you calender; it is no longer fucking 1965.
> I know a couple of people with talent. They do their own thing and do
> not wait around expecting teachers to spoon feed them instruction. They
> are active learners. For these people, all they need is to learn the
> basics of reading and then stay out of their way and let them do what
> they want.
> Most students, however, are passive learners and either they get the
> spark and take off or they remain passive. The reality is that an active
> learner will learn to excel on his own and teachers cannot hold them
> back. A passive student will be blown around by the teacher and the
> winds of chance. I don't think that a teacher should try to micro-manage
> a student's hand position. Any damage or poor habits will come from
> doing this. That's just my opinion although, I gotta say, it is awesome.
Yes I find this awesome too! A lot of name dropping in this thread ... anywhoo .... The amount of good ++ (yes that's good plus, plus) players will increase even more in the future ... but ... will the guitar remain à la mode enough to sustain all these wonderful players? IMHO a pragmatic approach is required to get one to play music to his heart content ... a good day job will lead to the acquisition of a good instrument, the possibility of buying as much music as one wants, the luxury to play whenever one wants and for whom he wants, and one will be able to contribute to the sustaining of professional players by attending their concerts and enjoying their performance and this without an inch of envy or regrets rather, they will rather come out of these events with a renewed determination to their chosen commitment ...
Let's face it ... teaching classical guitar is boring.
