Torres guitar size
edspyhill01
Ramirez? I'm close to pulling the trigger on a Pavan TP30-64, 640mm
and a Torres body.
Ed S.
dofrenzy
I think it depends on which Torres epoch. I think Torres' First Epoch
(FE) guitars are smaller than his Second Epoch (SE) guitars.
Tommy Grand
Robert Crim
If you are really interested in a short scale Torres bodied guitar,
contact Darren Hippner ( dr123g...@dccnet.com) and ask about his
61.3 cm model. Much less than that Pavan and will sound better, IMO.
Robert
Dicerous
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:14:06 -0800 (PST), edspyhill01
>
> >How much smaller is the body of a Torres CG compared to the body of a
> >Ramirez? I'm close to pulling the trigger on a Pavan TP30-64, 640mm
> >and a Torres body.
>
> >Ed S.
>
> If you are really interested in a short scale Torres bodied guitar,
> 61.3 cm model. Much less than that Pavan and will sound better, IMO.
>
> Robert
I second Robert's point. Hippner makes a great guitar for the money.
Resale is better as well.
Paul B. Anders
>
> >How much smaller is the body of a Torres CG compared to the body of a
> >Ramirez? I'm close to pulling the trigger on a Pavan TP30-64, 640mm
> >and a Torres body.
>
> >Ed S.
>
> If you are really interested in a short scale Torres bodied guitar,
> 61.3 cm model. Much less than that Pavan and will sound better, IMO.
FWIW:
http://fineclassicalguitars.com/Hippner_Web/hippner_templet.htm
Base price $2500
http://www.pavanguitars.com/tp3064.html
$1495
So, Hippner will knock off over $1K on his base price?
Brad Anders
Brad Anders
Robert Crim
You should ask.
Robert
Paul B. Anders
>
> - Show quoted text -
I will, thanks. I'm looking at the same Pavan, I have a TP-20 right
now. I'll ask him if he'll go for $1200 for a similar model.
Brad Anders
Dicerous
Pavan guitars have a horrible reputation among those *in-the-know*.
Popular because of their price, they have horrible resale issues. BTW
like I've mentioned in the past. The old Takamine c-136s and the
yairi cy-116's are both great deals at around $300 on the used
market. Just for contrast Tommy.
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=cy-116&_sacat=See-All-Categories
edspyhill01
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:14:06 -0800 (PST), edspyhill01
>
> >How much smaller is the body of a Torres CG compared to the body of a
> >Ramirez? I'm close to pulling the trigger on a Pavan TP30-64, 640mm
> >and a Torres body.
>
> >Ed S.
>
> If you are really interested in a short scale Torres bodied guitar,
> 61.3 cm model. Much less than that Pavan and will sound better, IMO.
>
> Robert
I wish I could justify a $3000 Hippner guitar. I will be layed off
sometime between July & Sept 2010 and I need to be prepared
financially. Thanks for the daydreams.
Ed S.
edspyhill01
>
> - Show quoted text -
I now play a TP30 with a spruce top. Before that I played a TP20.
The TP30 was a huge improvement. If the new Ergoplay position and
other changes keeps working I will probably keep my TP30.
edspyhill01
They are far from horrible. My $1400 TP30 will blow away any $2000+
factory CG. Those *in-the-know* sell the other factory made CGs with
1 or 2 middlemen between a guitar and me. As far as resale - I sold
my TP20 for about 70% of the price I paid. Not bad for any used
acoustic guitar.
Tashi
Ed, you have been struggling with basic classical guitar ever since
I've signed up on this chatline . Give it up, get a steel string
guitar and leave us alone in your quest. You are like a feather in
the wind.
Richard Jernigan
Of the 38 FE guitars catalogued in "Antonio de Torres, Guitar Maker-
His Life and Work" by Jose Romanillos and Marian Winspear, the largest
has a soundboard area of 1342 square centimeters, the smallest 934
square centimeters. Scale lengths of the FE guitars vary from 625 mm
to 661 mm. For the SE guitars, the largest is 1348 square centimeters,
the smallest 908 square centimeters. Scale lengths vary from 604 mm to
661 mm. Thus the smallest and the largest guitars catalogued by
Romanillos and Winspear are SE. I believe only a very few Torres
guitars have been identified since this publication.
There was far more variation in the size of Torres' guitars than in
most modern makers.
RNJ
Tashi
I believe Romanilios cataloged 5 different plantillia of Torres
guitars. However, I would not characterize this as a "variation" but
a form of devolution/evolution, depending on your individual
cosmology. Hauser also developed different size and shapes, ( FE-09
Llobet's Torres having a profound influence on his work) more from a
perspective of development of an ideal concert guitar, and less from
the idea of offering a variety of different models.
Modern makers have the luxury of seeing what works, and what
doesn't, based of the work of Torres.
Is it just my imagination, that Torres "First Epoch" guitars, are
the more infamous? If this is true, it's evidence of "devolution",
and everything we think we know is wrong!
Damman uses massive "cahonies" those triangles shaped blocks to
connect the top to the sides. I believe his idea is to make the
actual vibrating surface of the top smaller, not larger, because he
feels the strings don't have enough energy to drive the top of a
larger modern guitar.
edspyhill01
Toxic Tashi.
Tashi
Lighten up Ed!
Richard Yates
Is this what you mean, Ed? (My Googling skills are poor and superficial. I
didn't look much past the headline. Sorry if it does not actually apply to
this discussion.)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2004/oct/08/greenpolitics.environment
Tashi
That's pretty Toxic of you Richard! I thought I was in your kill
file? Damn, I knew it was to good to be true!
dofrenzy
Thanks for the clarification Richard. I popped in here to change my
story actually, after doing a bit of research. I recently took
ownership of a Kenny Hill, modeled after Torres FE12 (1856), and I was
surprised by how much smaller it is than a Hippner I have, also
modeled after a Torres. I wrongly assumed that the smaller guitar was
FE, and the larger SE, but I have since learned that my Hippner model
is probably FE as well. I was still wet behind the ears (well, more
wet behind the ears than I am now) and I never quite grasped the
diversity of Torres' guitars. Your informative contribution here has
further enlightened me, to say the least. Thanks again!
As an aside, I always thought my Hippner Torres model was rather small
compared to the Hippner Hauser model I have, but the Hill 1856 makes
it seem like a giant!
Robert Crim
You give up very easily. What does an email cost these
days......nothing. If you were really serious, you'd ask about it.
Just my opinion.
Robert
edspyhill01
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hey, you don't have to respond to my questions. Guitar string length,
body bout size, footstool vs. supports, tendinitis, physical ailments,
etc are all relevant to everyone at different times. My quest and
posts may completely bore you, but that quest becomes part of the CG
collective unconscious. I have found many people going through the
problem of guitar size and coming up with novel solutions. There are
many people out there that think they are alone with similar problems
and give up on CG. Think about the possibility that CG would gain a
wider appeal if there wasn't one string length (650) or one body size
(big enough to fill a concert hall). As a luthier I would think you
would want a larger client base.
Steel string guitars are almost another universe and just giving up on
CG because I don't fit the norm is not an option. I tried the steel
string option a few months ago and I can't get that CG string sound
that I hear in my head.
Just ignore me in the future. I don't ask for anyone's money making
knowledge.
Ed S.
edspyhill01
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hmmm, not sure; but my old dysfunctional self laughed. ;-)
Richard Jernigan
The Spanish speaking makers I have talked to call them "tentellones"
pronounced ten-teh-yoh'-nehs. This word does not appear in the
Diccionario de la Real Academía Española, so it is not officially a
Spanish word, just guitar maker slang. Cojón, however, is in the
Dictionary.
I played the spruce/Brazilian guitar Abel Garcia made for his
daughter. It was decidedly small, with a scale of maybe 630 mm. I had
no other to compare it to. As you know, the ear is easily deceived by
the acoustic surroundings. But in relation to the other strings, it
had the best 3rd I have met with so far. I'm eager to get back to
Texas in mid-January to compare my new Abel Garcia with the others.
It's spruce/Brazilian, about the size of later Hauser/Romanillos
guitars, 654 mm scale.
RNJ
Paul B. Anders
Ed, if you're looking for some interesting guitars, take a look here:
http://www.gryphonstrings.com/inventory/instrument_page.php?Instrument=Guitar&Type=Classical,Flamenco&Query=Classical
and Flamenco Guitars&O=Price&D=desc
Brad Anders
Tashi
> On Nov 11, 2:14 pm, edspyhill01 <edspyhil...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > How much smaller is the body of a Torres CG compared to the body of a
> > Ramirez? I'm close to pulling the trigger on a Pavan TP30-64, 640mm
> > and a Torres body.
>
> > Ed S.
>
> Ed, if you're looking for some interesting guitars, take a look here:
>
> and Flamenco Guitars&O=Price&D=desc
>
> Brad Anders
Whoa Brad, that's quite the selection!
Tashi
Tashi
Richard I was kidding about the "Cahonies" I couldn't remember the
name of those blocks in Spanish.
Paul B. Anders
Hey, not bad!
Brad Anders
Paul B. Anders
Tashi, what's your take on that Cervantes Hauser PE Mexican Rosewood /
Cedar at $1350? Or the Esteve at $1435? Looking at guitars near the
price point of the one Ed's considering.
Brad Anders
Dicerous
Not to interject, but I must say that the cervantes are great
guitars...truly exceptional. The esteve's can be hit or miss??
Dicerous
Hey Brad,
check this out, it has better woods than the PE model.
Tashi
I honestly couldn't tell you. You would just have to play one. Life
is too short to play crumby guitars, that's all I know.
Paul B. Anders
>
> - Show quoted text -
Very nice! I suspect it will go for somewhat more than that opening
bid price, but even the retail price isn't that bad.
Brad Anders
Paul B. Anders
>
> - Show quoted text -
I agree with you there.
Brad Anders
Paul B. Anders
> Very nice! I suspect it will go for somewhat more than that opening
> bid price, but even the retail price isn't that bad.
Maybe not. That ad's a relist at the same price.
Might try for this one if the price stays low, nice backup instrument: