Cedar v. Spruce: improvement when new
Robert Norton
months or more.
I've a new cedar lattice type(Patrick Burke like I told yiz). Will it sound
even better in time to come or is it as good now as it will ever be?
Rob
Andrew Schulman
the degree of change is not as much as Spruce. This is of course a
generalization as there are different kinds of Cedar and Spruce, and
the way the guitar is made has an affect also. However, I've never
known a Cedar that didn't also open up.
Andrew
Ivan
My cedar top is 1.5 years old now and it does sound better (or maybe I
got better...). Anyway, some things improve with age, some others
don't ...
Andrew Schulman
> Anyway, some things improve with age, some others
> don't ...
>
>
Python.
Andrew
Robert Crim
My experience with cedar is that it tends to warp and weather when
left in the rain and stuff. I think redwood would be better for
fences and outdoor furniture. Cedar is good for keeping moths away
from your clothes in the winter though.
Robert.............a spruce guy
la...@deack.net
> On Wed, 14 May 2008 13:06:51 -0700 (PDT), Andrew Schulman
>
Cedar works great outdoors! I have both cedar and redwood in my
fern garden and neither warp but both weather.
GuitarsWeB
Such wisdom!!
Paul McGuffin
Raptor
> On Wed, 14 May 2008 13:06:51 -0700 (PDT), Andrew Schulman
>
It must be a curiosity to you spruce-or-nothing guys, why so many of
most expensive instruments made today are ......... not spruce; how
someone who can afford to drop $35-40K on a DF, can simultaneously
lack the intelligence to know s/he picked the wrong wood.
Mark (species neutral - the art's in the luthery, not the botany)
Robert Crim
wrote:
>drop $35-40K on a DF
What is a DF?
Robert
Tashi
> On Wed, 14 May 2008 18:20:12 -0700 (PDT), Raptor <mpdan...@msn.com>
> wrote:
>
> >drop $35-40K on a DF
>
> What is a DF?
>
> Robert
Daniel Frederich
MT
Robert Crim
Thank you. I'm not sure what the relevance of the reference to DF is,
but I think someone is taking this way too seriously.
Robert
Raptor
> On Wed, 14 May 2008 18:29:36 -0700 (PDT), Tashi
>
> >On May 14, 7:22 pm, Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 14 May 2008 18:20:12 -0700 (PDT), Raptor <mpdan...@msn.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >drop $35-40K on a DF
>
> >> What is a DF?
>
> >> Robert
>
> >Daniel Frederich
> >MT
>
> Thank you. I'm not sure what the relevance of the reference to DF is,
> but I think someone is taking this way too seriously.
>
> Robert
Not at all. I think the whole question is silly. Generalizing about
these things is near to nonsense.
Robert Crim
wrote:
>On May 14, 7:36 pm, Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 May 2008 18:29:36 -0700 (PDT), Tashi
>>
>> <michaeltha...@starband.net> wrote:
>> >On May 14, 7:22 pm, Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 14 May 2008 18:20:12 -0700 (PDT), Raptor <mpdan...@msn.com>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >drop $35-40K on a DF
>>
>> >> What is a DF?
>>
>> >> Robert
>>
>> >Daniel Frederich
>> >MT
>>
>> Thank you. I'm not sure what the relevance of the reference to DF is,
>> but I think someone is taking this way too seriously.
>>
>> Robert
>
>Not at all. I think the whole question is silly. Generalizing about
>these things is near to nonsense.
Totally agree. That's why I made it a joke.......I hope.
Robert
GuitarsWeB
> On Wed, 14 May 2008 19:24:20 -0700 (PDT), Raptor <mpdan...@msn.com>
Yes, I agree....joke
Luthiers make what the players buy. If people didn't like cedar and
redwood, then there would be no market for the woods. MT, do you
remember when, back in the late 1960s, people were writing that cedar
went dead after five years? Then,it went to ten years, then Sharon
Isbin, in all her vast knowledge of woods and guitar making, wrote in
her book that cedar went dead after 20 years. As I remember, Richard
Brune raked her over the coals after that statement.
Paul McGuffin
Curmudgeon
Never buy sushi from a vending machine
John LaCroix
>
> - Show quoted text -
I agree. I remember being in a discussion with Armin Kelley some years
back at a guitar workshop, and I remember him saying that asking if
spruce is better than cedar is like asking if red wine is better than
white. If violins had been historically made using cedar or spruce
soundboards we wouldn't have these discussions.
John L.
John LaCroix
There was that episode from Futurama where Fry got infested with worms
and Leila said: "Fry, you didn't eat that truck stop bathroom egg
salad sandwich did you ?"
la...@deack.net
>
> I agree. I remember being in a discussion with Armin Kelley some years
> back at a guitar workshop, and I remember him saying that asking if
> spruce is better than cedar is like asking if red wine is better than
> white.
Red... and it goes fine with fish. It even goes with breakfast!
Tashi
>
> - Show quoted text -
There are only good guitars and bad guitars. Cheap red wine, and fine
red wine. Organic food and proccesed food. American beer, or
homemade Chang etc.
MT
Tashi
Larry you shouldn't eat fruit with protein, but everything else looks
good!
MT
Tashi
Back in 1992 I had a conversation with Manuel Barecco after a concert
he played in San Francisco. The subject of guitars improving with
time came up. I asked him if he noticed this with his Ruck. He said
it was (at that time) 22 years old and got better every year!
There is no doubt in my mind cedar breaks in the same as spruce and
will improve with age over time. The only exception to this rule is
if the guitar is not well conceived. Guitars should be slightly
bright in the beginning and will loose that brightness over time and
develop a nice round full tone. Guitars that are too open in the
beginning will just get dull, regardless of spruce or cedar.
I had a girl freind who made recorders. She said you can ruin a
recorder if you don't break it in properly. I've also heard this is
true with silver flutes.
MT
Tashi
>
> - Show quoted text -
Paul that statement gets thrown around today as it did in the
1960's.
MT
la...@deack.net
>
> Larry you shouldn't eat fruit with protein, but everything else looks
> good!
> MT
Well. there is no meat in the omelette and there is no processes
food in it. I'm not sure why you say no fruit with protein. I eat meat
but not rarely red meat. It's probably more important to try to keep
some balance in life than try to adhere to strict rules. I never quit
understood why Pythagorians believed Beans could be reincarnated
spirits either.
la...@deack.net
GEEEZ! So many typos in one post! Oh, well.
BTW, do you avoid avocados? I love them and often use them in
salads. I'l eat one today in salad I plan to enjoy for lunch.
Andrew Schulman
> Guitars that are too open in the
> beginning will just get dull, regardless of spruce or cedar.
>
>
soufflé" syndrome.
Andrew
Tashi
The fine art of food combining is in the link below. Fruits should be
eaten alone as they create a sour wine in the stomach. Also fruit
requiers a different enzyme to digest it where as other foods need
different ones. It's no mystery why American's are the most obese
unhealthy culture today.
Jews also don't eat yeast, or drink milk with meat. These unhealthy
food combinations have been well known in Tibetan, Ayurvedic, and
Chinese medicene.
http://www.ayurveda.com/online%20resource/food_combining.pdf
MT
Ivan
>
> - Show quoted text -
Or, asking if brunettes are better than blondes.... Actually that was
the exact analogy that Jose Ramirez made in "Things about the
guitar".
Andrew Schulman
You may be thinking of dietary prohibitions of eating bread leavened
with yeast during Passover. Milk and meat is prohibited except for
Ham and Swiss sandwiches on rye bread, but only if no one is looking.
Andrew
la...@deack.net
>
> Jews that observe the dietary laws
But... are all Jews Jewish and are all those who believe in the
principles of Judaism Jews?
OCGC:
More importantly, it is kosher to play cedar or spruce guitars and if
so how about other woods?
GuitarsWeB
Was not the "Arc Of The Covenant" lined with cedar?
Paul McGuffin
la...@deack.net
>
> Was not the "Arc Of The Covenant" lined with cedar?
> Paul McGuffin
A quick search says it was made of acacia wood which has a strong
fragrance.
OCGC:
Anybody ever hear of making a guitar with acacia wood?
la...@deack.net
Mark & Steven Bornfeld
If you do it, ya gotta wear wool and linen.
Steve
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
Andrew Schulman
> and are all those who believe in the
> principles of Judaism Jews?
>
>
> OCGC:
> More importantly, it is kosher to play cedar or spruce guitars and if
> so how about other woods?
>
Andrew
Andrew Schulman
> Was not the "Arc Of The Covenant" lined with cedar?
>
>
Andrew
Andrew Schulman
>
> A quick search says it was made of acacia wood which has a strong
> fragrance.
>
>
Andrew
Andrew Schulman
Andrew
Carlos Barrientos
Dicerous
You men are aweful...I hope I never see any of u except maybe andrew
and carlos. GOD what AWEFUL men!
David
la...@deack.net
>
> You men are aweful...I hope I never see any of u except maybe andrew
> and carlos. GOD what AWEFUL men!
>
> David
Andrew and Carlos, if you see a sock puppet in the real world....
watch out!
Wollybird
Dicerous
aw·ful (ôfl)
adj.
1. Extremely bad or unpleasant; terrible: had an awful day at the
office.
2. Commanding awe: "this sea, whose gently awful stirrings seem to
speak of some hidden soul beneath" Herman Melville.
3. Filled with awe, especially:
a. Filled with or displaying great reverence.
b. Obsolete Afraid.
4. Formidable in nature or extent: an awful burden; an awful risk.
adv. Informal
Extremely; very: was awful sick.
[Middle English aweful, awe-inspiring, blend of awe, awe; see awe, and
*ayfull, awful (from Old English egefull : ege, dread + -full, -ful).]
Malcolm Manners
> Anybody ever hear of making a guitar with acacia wood?
Koa and Australian Blackwood are both species of acacia.
Andrew Schulman
Andrew Schulman
> Only if bought wholesale.
>
>
Hey, what's with all the wholesale jokes?
Awful!
Andrew
Robert Norton
guys have nothin' to do but gossip?! (-:
RN
"Tashi" <michae...@starband.net> wrote in message
news:56eac23f-93ad-4697...@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
On May 14, 2:06 pm, Andrew Schulman <abaca...@panix.com> wrote:
> On May 14, 3:42 pm, "Robert Norton" <rjnor...@eircom.net> wrote:> I gather
> spruce tops dont give their best sound til they've been played for
> > months or more.
> > I've a new cedar lattice type(Patrick Burke like I told yiz). Will it
> > sound
> > even better in time to come or is it as good now as it will ever be?
>
> My experience with Cedar is that it too also improves with age, but
> the degree of change is not as much as Spruce. This is of course a
> generalization as there are different kinds of Cedar and Spruce, and
> the way the guitar is made has an affect also. However, I've never
> known a Cedar that didn't also open up.
>
> Andrew
Back in 1992 I had a conversation with Manuel Barecco after a concert
he played in San Francisco. The subject of guitars improving with
time came up. I asked him if he noticed this with his Ruck. He said
it was (at that time) 22 years old and got better every year!
There is no doubt in my mind cedar breaks in the same as spruce and
will improve with age over time. The only exception to this rule is
if the guitar is not well conceived. Guitars should be slightly
bright in the beginning and will loose that brightness over time and
develop a nice round full tone. Guitars that are too open in the
beginning will just get dull, regardless of spruce or cedar.
I had a girl freind who made recorders. She said you can ruin a
recorder if you don't break it in properly. I've also heard this is
true with silver flutes.
MT
Robert Norton
"Raptor" <mpda...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:bad21450-4f62-4239...@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On May 15, 8:51 am, Tashi <michaeltha...@starband.net> wrote:
"Guitars should be slightly bright in the beginning and will loose
that brightness over time and develop a nice round full tone. Guitars
that are too open in the beginning will just get dull, regardless of
spruce or cedar."
In form and performance, guitars are like women. When they are new,
they should be slightly tight. Over time the will open up to fit the
player.... Unless of course the player is a woman. Let's just not
go there.