Sor/Segovia I to V

[Fadosolrélamisi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI3UGfxJWGk

One of my rare morning practice (I have the day off today!)... After being away in the cold Québec city winter for a week I was happy to start practicing again ...

Alain

[Douglas Seth]

I enjoyed it, Alain. Very nice, musical playing. It is a shame that
you put time into playing, video recording, and posting these
yesterday without any responses! Thanks!

[Matt Faunce]

I enjoyed listening to it. I don't have much to say, except to rehash an old debate: the long appogiatura in No. 1 seems right. I don't like the camera angle. I'd prefer you back it up, but I understand that students might want a closer look at your fingers.

Matt

[JPD]

+1

[Douglas Seth]

It is funny you said something about the long appogiaturas in No. 1. I
was thinking how much I liked hearing them long. And I agree about the
camera, it barely shows the hands, but maybe Alain wants to be a
mystery guitarist!

[Matt Faunce]

The long apog. keeps the solemn character of the piece. A short one is like a priest in church wearing hot pink socks that show under his robe.

Matt

[Cactus Wren]

Nice job, Alain, I listened to them all attentively. You might get
more people watching if you split it up into separate vids--maybe.

[Slogoin]

On Feb 7, 6:22 pm, Cactus Wren <elegantspanishgui...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Nice job, Alain, I listened to them all attentively.

and...???

Maybe if someone gave him some feedback besides... nice.

[Cactus Wren]

Well, I thought he played them all better than me, more musical, more
sure, more pleasant. I think it's an elegant presentation, that
avoided extremes, didn't stop, didn't change color much. Not how I do
it, but I try to learn from it. I felt the tone lacked focus at
times, and I don't like some of the jerky movements of the left hand
(can't see the RH but I know he moves it around too much). But when I
closed my eyes, it sounded pretty smooth. Also, the camera angle did
not show enough guitar, or Alain. I would modify it so it either
shows the whole guitar clearly or the whole man clearly. Just the
neck (Alain's) isn't enough :)

[Douglas Seth]

Larry,
He didn't ask for feedback. Perhaps he was just sharing, we can
discuss Sor's music without critiquing Alain's playing. It was certain
solid, confident, and musical. Of course, there's room for
improvement, as always for anyone, but he didn't ask to be taught.

Doug

[Slogoin]

On Feb 7, 7:55 pm, Douglas Seth <douglasse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> He didn't ask for feedback.

Then I guess one reply with "Nice" is all that's needed and the rest
of us can just agree and not bother posting since it's all been said,
and the thread dies.

> but he didn't ask to be taught.

I give feedback to friends. I told some guys at Seagrapes tonight
that the balance was better but the voices were still too far back. I
wasn't teaching them anything. Feedback to a performer is not about
teaching but about expressing what you hear or don't hear.

YMMV

[Fadosolrélamisi]

I thought I might start using Youtube allowing me to post more that 5 minutes clips! I'll probably record them again ... and will split them into singles.

Alain

[Fadosolrélamisi]

I can always use some positive feed back! Mind you ... I did not ask directly for them as I did not want that thread to go over 100 turn and twisted ways! {;o)
Is that a political statement?

Alain

[Fadosolrélamisi]

Good visual pink socks ... it stays!
Well ... thanks to you in part (in a previous discussion), I decided once and for all to keep the long apog.!

Alain

[Fadosolrélamisi]

Thanks for getting the thread going [;o). I am far from being well verse in this virtual medium were communication can turn in a blink to a level of misunderstanding that can muddies any good intentions! (Especially for me, English is not my first language)...
I like what you say and it connect well with what I have always thought about playing ... there is always room for improvement. As soon as I put them (recordings) on Youtube ... I hear things that can be improved ...
The camera angle ... well ... it seems to be the sole the angle that gives me the best sound I can get from that little 4 needles pin head mics of this cheap Vado camera. No matter what I do... it always give me the kind of result one can obtain on camera set only on the auto mode ...

Alain

[Steve Freides]

Very nice playing!

I like the first one slower, even significantly slower, I'd say.

-S-

[dsi1]

The big nasty flaw of most classical guitarists is that they always feel
the need to offer advice on how other guitarists should play. The
problem with that is that many times, the guy playing has no desire to
play like the guy dispensing the advice. I'll take advice from guys
whose playing I dig all day. The problem is that I don't dig very many
people's playing.

Like a lot of people who has played for a while, I have a sound in my
head that I want to achieve. The last thing I want to do is to try to
copy the sound that's in someone else's head. That's really asking for
too much.

[dsi1]

I like your phone. It's the nuttiest looking thing ever. What's the deal with that?

[Slogoin]

On Feb 8, 1:57 pm, dsi1 <d...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:
>
> The big nasty flaw of most classical
> guitarists is that they always feel
> the need to offer advice on how other
> guitarists should play.

Every GOOD musician gives feedback to every other GOOD musician.

Good musicians like to hear what other good musicians think and value
their observations. Lily Afshar is a good example of a player who
loves to hear feedback, and from what I've experienced with many of
the top players in the world it seems that they like it too. None like
dumb questions that come from ignorance but for the best it seems like
they are always eager to hear what other artists think of their work.

Maybe the problem is too many wanna be CGists are just so insecure
they can't do what the pros do and stand out in front of God and
everybody and play real music.

[Slogoin]

On Feb 8, 10:17 am, Fadosolrélamisi <rei...@telus.net> wrote:

> I can always use some positive feed back!

Anybody who wants to play well should be willing to listen to any
reasonable feedback from others.

[dsi1]

For some reason, classical guitar seems to foster this idea. Other
guitarists don't do this as much. Possibly it might be that CGers tend
to be poor at social interaction and reading other people and simply
want to go blathering on about their own areas of interest to other
players.

Maybe they tend to be people that need assurances as to the proper way
to do things. Maybe they're just too polite. Most other guitarists want
to do their own thing, and would make that very clear. Anyway, it's a
mystery.

My feeling is that unsolicited advice mostly smells bad. Helping people
is a good thing but only if it's wanted. It's also a sin to try to get
people to play the sound that's in your head. Your goal should be to
help them play the sound that's in their head.

[Cactus Wren]

It seems to be a C thing, not CG. It's always "studied with", etc.
Not so common in other genres, is it? I always want feedback on my
playing when I post here, but I probably am in the minority here. I
would say we see more people who never get better than people giving
bad advice. I have enjoyed trying out ideas people here have given me
and going over it with my teacher.

[dsi1]

Near as I can remember, you've always asked for advice here from the
players. You're trying to mine this place for nuggets of gold and I
think it's a smart move. My guess is that you've gotten some big pieces
and a lot of small little flakes.

[Slogoin]

On Feb 8, 4:15 pm, dsi1 <d...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:
>
> My feeling is that unsolicited advice mostly smells bad.

And yet here you are giving unsolicited advice to other posters in
RMCG.

> It's also a sin to try to get people to play
> the sound that's in your head. Your goal should be to
> help them play the sound that's in their head.

They don't have a CLEAR sound in their head unless they are a
trained musician. Beginning students have very vague ideas about what
a piece sounds like. It's a sin to not teach what you know about music
and tell your students the truth about how they play. When my drummers
slush a double roll I don't let it pass.

All my students must be able to play in front of all the other
students and then the students critique each other's playing and
singing. They cannot use vague terms like, "She played it wrong." They
must be specific about which notes and exactly what they did wrong,
like not playing in meter and exactly where it was off.

YMMV

[dsi1]

I won't comment on this because it's irrelevant to my point, which was -
unsolicited advice mostly smell bad.

[Slogoin]

On Feb 8, 4:21 pm, Cactus Wren <elegantspanishgui...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It seems to be a C thing, not CG.

Not at all. Every serious musician gets feedback all the time. Heck,
just playing for folks you will get instant feedback in their
reaction.

The difference as I see it is the massive insecurity of most part
time CGists who seem to never play for or with anybody but themselves
and can't understand why it does not go as well as during their
private practice when they play for or with others.

[Slogoin]

On Feb 8, 4:59 pm, dsi1 <d...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:

> which was - unsolicited advice mostly smell bad.

Then why are you posting it?

[Cactus Wren]

Amateurs in any art are less consistent in performing. CG is tough,
though. We tend to overreach and mangle pieces far out of our
ability, rather than work at our level. These Sor studies have been
good for me in that regard, although no. 8 has been no cakewalk, and
10 and especially 12 are going to take awhile.

If we could just play ensemble pieces we would probably pass a lot of
this difficulty.

In studying early education, it also seems that many of us have
skipped fundamentals such as marching, dancing, finding the beat,
detecting intensity and pitch directionality, and listening intently
to instrumental music. I have a feeling the good players will not
understand because they did that before they can remember, and the bad
players who skipped it will also wonder what I'm going on about.

[Slogoin]

On Feb 8, 5:41 pm, Cactus Wren <elegantspanishgui...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> In studying early education, it also seems that many of us have
> skipped fundamentals such as marching, dancing, finding the beat,
> detecting intensity and pitch directionality, and listening intently
> to instrumental music.

The fundamentals are the key.

Add part playing into the mix. Have the kids do it with rhythms and
notes. Conduct to get loud/soft and fast/slow from them. Play for them
too and bring in other musicians to play.

> I have a feeling the good players will not
> understand because they did that before they can remember, and the bad
> players who skipped it will also wonder what I'm going on about.

If they teach they will get it.

BTW, doing the actual work in a classroom is more edifying than
reading a bunch of books on education so I hope you are trying that
side of the equation. A PhD in education does not mean you can
actually teach a class of kids, as someone I know found out. It's much
harder than it looks. I'd love to put some big shots in my first grade
music class and see how far they get.

[Fadosolrélamisi]

I like that! (I would love to develop more on this but ... language barrier in sight!)

Alain

[Fadosolrélamisi]

Sor wrote Andantino ... Segovia wrote Lento.
In my head ... Andantino has a lighter foot step than Lento.
For the second one, Sor says Andante and Segovia says Allegretto ...

Alain

[Fadosolrélamisi]

Well ... it's a short story. Way back then ... when my kids were growing up ... we were poor ... and leaving a life of holding back on everything to make ends meet was taking it's toll on us ... one day, walking on Main street, we went in a kind of semi-antique shop and saw the phone ... we bought it for 60$ cdn, a fortune, latter on, I stuck a picture of Lisa Simpson on the center of the rolling phone dial ... I guess it's a form of attachment to the old ways, the old black heavy phone (with the longest cord ... private conversation with girl friends could be held in the entrance closet!) that we once add as I was growing up in Montreal.
technology has since then ... leaped into warp speed!

Alain

[dsi1]

I consider it more of an opinion. You can consider it unsolicited advice
it you want. Feel free to go around helping others become all that they
can be. No doubt you feel that everybody you meet and advise are happier
and living life just that much fuller. It must be gratifying to live in
such a mindset.

[dsi1]

Alain old buddy, my unsolicited advice to you is that you listen to the
music in your head and always follow that. It's obvious that you've paid
your dues. Mostly people giving you advice to on how to play mostly want
to make themselves feel oh-so-smart. Remember, always be yourself! Gosh!
Sorry for sounding so after-school-special.*



* "After-school-special" is an American idiom which refers to the TV
programs that run after schools release their kids to their homes and
typically deals with the problems of adolescents. Typically the problems
are dealt with in the most superficial ways. I use it to mean trite and
simplistic sounding.**



** Well that's the way I use the term. Young folks evidently use it to
mean masturbating after school, or having sex before your parents come
home. Another use is to mean going home and pooping. This makes sense to
me. I never would use the toilets at school - that's crazy!

[dsi1]

It's an amazing piece. The kids would probably find it hard to believe
that people used such a thing. I haven't seen a rotary phone in 30
years. Here's an scene showing how these things were used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOZKR-EGbAM

[Slogoin]

On Feb 8, 9:09 pm, dsi1 <d...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:
>
> Alain old buddy, my unsolicited advice to you is that you listen to the
> music in your head and always follow that. It's obvious that you've paid
> your dues. Mostly people giving you advice to on how to play mostly want
> to make themselves feel oh-so-smart.

So, do you feel oh-so-smart now?

[dsi1]

On 2/8/2012 4:53 PM, Slogoin wrote:
> On Feb 8, 9:09 pm, dsi1<d...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> Alain old buddy, my unsolicited advice to you is that you listen to the
>> music in your head and always follow that. It's obvious that you've paid
>> your dues. Mostly people giving you advice to on how to play mostly wa

>> to make themselves feel oh-so-smart.
>
> So, do you feel oh-so-smart now?

Unless we can have some kind of reasonable, adult, interaction, I'm not
going to respond to you. Stop acting like a sulky kid.

[Slogoin]

On Feb 8, 8:36 pm, dsi1 <d...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:

> I consider it more of an opinion.

Well, you say potahtoe and others say...

> Feel free to go around helping others
> become all that they can be.

Works for me and a whole lot of others who seem to want me to
continue doing the work I'm doing.

> No doubt you feel that everybody you meet
> and advise are happier and living life just
> that much fuller.

For most people where I am, yes.

> It must be gratifying to live in such a mindset.

It is. I'm very happy with the work I do and the feedback I'm
getting from the community. It's quite a surreal experience and I'm so
grateful that I get to do this work, and get such warm encouragement
from so many people. If I had to depend on RMCG for supportive
encouragement... well, let's just say some folks here are not exactly
helpful in their feedback.

[Slogoin]

On Feb 8, 10:30 pm, dsi1 <d...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:
>
> Unless we can have some kind of reasonable,
> adult, interaction,

We can do that.

> I'm not going to respond to you. Stop acting like a sulky kid.

Not like that... if you want to try again I'd be happy to have a
conversation but so far communication seems to be lacking any trust
and without trust there really is no communication.

[Cactus Wren]

Larry, my unsolicited advice/opinion/flame is that if you were just a
leeeeetle less preachy, you would be even more successful at spreading
your message of love and goodwill and avoiding rancorous online
arguments.

[Cactus Wren]

I have been in the early education music classes. I want no part of
trying to control a bunch of brats! I have noticed the instructors
doing the little things you mention. I try to keep those things in
mind as well. I am not surpised that the degree snd the actual work
are so divergent; this is one of the disastrous problems in the
current educational system.

[Slogoin]

On Feb 8, 11:36 pm, Cactus Wren <elegantspanishgui...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>  I have been in the early education music classes.
>  I want no part of trying to control a bunch of brats!

Ah, but if you can handle it...

> I am not surpised that the degree snd the actual work
> are so divergent; this is one of the disastrous problems in the
> current educational system.

The biggest problem as I see it is cultural. We tend to think of
early education as a job for the less qualified rather than the most.
Basically, there is not enough respect for what these teachers do day
in and day out. Teaching music I get to go to different classes and
different schools. I don't think I could handle the first graders
every day and my hats off to anybody who can.

[Slogoin]

On Feb 8, 11:40 pm, Cactus Wren <elegantspanishgui...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>

> Larry, my unsolicited advice/opinion/flame
> is that if you were just a leeeeetle less
> preachy, you would be even more successful
> at spreading your message of love and goodwill
> and avoiding rancorous online arguments.

I doubt there is any way to avoid miscommunication in RMCG short of
not posting.

As far as spreading "my" message... well, it's not mine but I am
more than willing to chat with anybody and hold no ill feelings for
anybody who has difficulty understanding what I post.

[Fadosolrélamisi]

Well ... I get this exasperation feeling in the back of my head each time I phone from it! Man it takes time to dial a number especially now that we have to dial the area code! 10 numbers (and Canada has just (only) reached the 33 millions + population level!) And guess who is running to the more modern phone when the robot voice says "to talk to one of our agent press one"

Alain

[dsi1]

On 2/9/2012 5:01 AM, Fadosolrélamisi wrote:
> Well ... I get this exasperation feeling in the back of my head each time I phone from it! Man it takes time to dial a number especially now that we have to dial the area code! 10 numbers (and Canada has just (only) reached the 33 millions + population level!) And guess who is running to the more modern phone when the robot voice says "to talk to one of our agent press one"
>
> Alain

For extra special fun, try tapping out the number on the receiver
button. :-)