New Blog Post with Video-Basic Thumb Stroke Development

[Douglas Seth]

Hi,
Here is another new blog post...for your entertainment!

http://nonylonstringsattached.blogspot.com/2012/09/basic-thumb-stroke-development.html

DS

[Cactus Wren]

Nice vid, very clear! I will have to try that with the ami on the strings.

[Douglas Seth]

On Sep 30, 11:08 pm, Cactus Wren <elegantspanishgui...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Nice vid, very clear!  I will have to try that with the ami on the strings.

Thanks. As long as you don't have any voices that need to keep
ringing, planting finger(s) on the trebles while playing thumb really
stabilizes the hand-and vise versa. When you play fingers, find a bass
string for your thumb.

[Murdick]

You show the free stroke P moving off to the side instead in a straight line. This is because you are in the a rest stroke position for P. Playing in a straight on ('a' finger perpendicular to the string) position, P free stroke moves the same as your P rest stroke. You can't have it both ways; you are either in a good position for rest stroke or a good position for free stroke. All movement to the side, BTW, is wasted movement. This is why Pepe Romero's P free stroke sounds so thin. I don't doubt you are successful playing this way, I'm just not a big fan of P rest stroke. Since it's only a matter of few degrees difference, I would recommend changing position when you move from P free stroke to P rest stroke.

[Douglas Seth]

On Oct 1, 9:35 am, Murdick <lutem...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, September 30, 2012 9:49:33 PM UTC-5, Douglas Seth wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > Here is another new blog post...for your entertainment!
>

> >http://nonylonstringsattached.blogspot.com/2012/09/basic-thumb-stroke...

>
> > DS
>
> You show the free stroke P moving off to the side instead in a straight line.  This is because you are in the a rest stroke position for P. Playing in a straight on ('a' finger perpendicular to the string) position, P free stroke moves the same as your P rest stroke.  You can't have it both ways;  you are either in a good position for rest stroke or a good position for free stroke. All movement to the side, BTW, is wasted movement. This is why Pepe Romero's P free stroke sounds so thin. I don't doubt you are successful playing this way, I'm just not a big fan of P rest stroke. Since it's only a matter of few degrees difference, I would recommend changing position when you move from P free stroke to P rest stroke.

Fair enough, but the movement of the free stroke from rest stroke is
an minor deviation from a straight line really only changing motion
slightly to miss the string. Most people would still perceive and
process it as a straight motion. There are many advantages using this
position including the ability to mute more efficiently along with
dynamic nuance in bass lines.

[Murdick]

I like the muting idea, but I have three objections to this style of playing, a style, BTW, that has gained a lot of currency lately.

1) I don't like a lot of muting, and when I need to mute an adjacent lower bass string, I can do it other ways.

2) It tends to be a very tense position, IMO, and most/many students will not get it right. If 90+% of ones P strokes are going to be free strokes, why not position your hand for an efficient free stroke?

3)It seems to me that the truly great technicians avoid this approach and use more of a Shearer approach for P stroke that emphasizes a strong P free stroke and a rotation of the hand for the rare use of P rest stroke. The reason for this is that Shearer stole much of his approach from the great technicians.

I have no proof that Shearer's way is better than yours. Clearly there are fine players in both camps.

[David Raleigh Arnold]

On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 06:35:19 -0700, Murdick wrote:

> On Sunday, September 30, 2012 9:49:33 PM UTC-5, Douglas Seth wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Here is another new blog post...for your entertainment!
>>
>>
>>
>> http://nonylonstringsattached.blogspot.com/2012/09/basic-thumb-stroke-
development.html
>>
>>
>>
>> DS
>
> You show the free stroke P moving off to the side instead in a straight
> line. This is because you are in the a rest stroke position for P.
> Playing in a straight on ('a' finger perpendicular to the string)
> position, P free stroke moves the same as your P rest stroke. You can't
> have it both ways; you are either in a good position for rest stroke or
> a good position for free stroke.

Every good guitarist has it both ways. Playing two strings
simultaneously with the thumb is important practice in
playing tirato and appoggiato in the same stroke.

Of course the appoggiato part of the stroke in that case is not
very deep, so such practice is necessary but not sufficient.

"Monstyria" works on it. Regards, daveA

--
Guitar teaching materials and original music for all styles and levels.
Site: http://www.openguitar.com (()) eMail: d.raleig...@gmail.com
Contact: http://www.openguitar.com/contact.html"

[Murdick]

I hate to say it, but I agree with David. I assume he's saying there must be a slight shift of position for the P as there usually is for the fingers.

[Douglas Seth]

On Oct 2, 8:13 am, Murdick <lutem...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 2, 2012 7:00:45 AM UTC-5, daveA wrote:
> > On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 06:35:19 -0700, Murdick wrote:
>
> > > On Sunday, September 30, 2012 9:49:33 PM UTC-5, Douglas Seth wrote:
>
> > >> Hi,
>
> > >> Here is another new blog post...for your entertainment!
>
> > >>http://nonylonstringsattached.blogspot.com/2012/09/basic-thumb-stroke-
>
> > development.html
>
> > >> DS
>
> > > You show the free stroke P moving off to the side instead in a straight
>
> > > line.  This is because you are in the a rest stroke position for P.
>
> > > Playing in a straight on ('a' finger perpendicular to the string)
>
> > > position, P free stroke moves the same as your P rest stroke.  You can't
>
> > > have it both ways;  you are either in a good position for rest stroke or
>
> > > a good position for free stroke.
>
> > Every good guitarist has it both ways. Playing two strings
>
> > simultaneously with the thumb is important practice in
>
> > playing tirato and appoggiato in the same stroke.
>
> > Of course the appoggiato part of the stroke in that case is not
>
> > very deep, so such practice is necessary but not sufficient.
>
> > "Monstyria" works on it. Regards, daveA
>
> > --
>
> > Guitar teaching materials and original music for all styles and levels.
>

> > Site:http://www.openguitar.com(()) eMail: d.raleigh.arn...@gmail.com

>
> > Contact:http://www.openguitar.com/contact.html"
>
> I hate to say it, but I agree with David. I assume he's saying there must be a slight shift of position for the P as there usually is for the fingers.

No, he is saying if you play two string concurrently, the thumb will
play a rest stroke through the first string and a free stroke as it
passes through the second.

I haven't had students have any problems learning thumb this way. As
you advance this way of using thumb has a lot of nuance to it. There
are plenty of young players that play very successfully this way (as
you stated), even older (especially those with a foot in flamenco)
like Pepe. Because the is so much rest stroke thumb with arpeggios in
flamenco along with alzapua. The key to utilizing this thumb position
in CG is developing great control of the rest stroke thumb and thumb
in general. It works well if your fingers are in an optimum free
stroke position which many players I see have their fingers far too
extended to be in an ideal free stroke position. Although I don't
think of myself as a technician/virtuoso, others have called me that
so maybe there is something to what I am saying. Of course, there are
far better players out there than myself!