what's on the earliest guitar recordings (circa 1900)
Jack
I've just received a CDR of the eight guitar cylinders by Luis and
Ramon Ramirez on the Viuda de Aramburo label, made in Madrid sometime
between 1897-1901, and wanted to share my astonishment with the
community here! The pieces are: Caridad (Granados), Cordoba (Lucena),
Jota, Mazurka: Genio y Figura, Polka: El beso, March Turca (Mozart),
Estudio para guitarra (Sort)[sic], and Pasodoble.
The sound, by and large, is horrific--and some of the tracks can't
really be used. At least one has singing with guitar accompaniment.
The duos--well, aren't impressive: one guitar plonks out block chords,
"um chung, um chung", the other is tremolo played with a pick.
Possibly it isn't a guitar at all but a laud or something like that.
The one absolutely astonishing fact--the "estudio para guitarra" is
none other than, wait for it..."Romance d'Amor." So much for Yepes'
claim that he wrote it as a boy.
We (DOREMI) are going to restore these tracks as best as we can, and
the usable ones will be part of a CD devoted to the earliest guitar
recordings (including Octaviano Yanes, Julio Otermin, and Agustin
Barrios).
Jack
thomas
>
> I've just received a CDR of the eight guitar cylinders by Luis and
> Ramon Ramirez on the Viuda de Aramburo label, made in Madrid sometime
> between 1897-1901, and wanted to share my astonishment
>
> none other than, wait for it..."Romance d'Amor." So much for Yepes'
> claim that he wrote it as a boy.
So, you're calling Yepes a big fat liar then?
wollybird
No Smoke on the Water? No Staiway to Heaven?
edspyhill01
Was he fat?
Miguel de Maria
Wow.... cool!
About the Romanza--probably anyone who has ever tried to write has
inadvertently done that before.
Miguel de Maria
wrote:
Heh---just happened to read this--serendipity!
"If the idea you have is really great, do not bother to write it down.
It is
not yours, and three minutes, three hours, three days after writing
it, you
will discover where you borrowed (or stolen) it from."
Andrew Schulman
> The one absolutely astonishing fact--the "estudio para guitarra" is
> none other than, wait for it..."Romance d'Amor." So much for Yepes'
> claim that he wrote it as a boy.
>
>
Andrew
Jack
wrote:
Let's have a name-the-composer contest! BTW, I meant to write Luis and
Simon Ramirez. Apparently, some early editions called Romance "estudio
de Rubira" that came from an old method by Pedro Mascaro. The
Wikipedia entry on the piece mentions the notion that the melody came
from Sor--if so, this would be backed up by the cylinder. A friend
wrote me that he heard an interview on Spanish radio where Yepes said
he wrote the piece for his mother when he was a little boy, and,
because he was such a humble and religious man, everyone believed him.
The plot thickens!
Jack
Richard Yates
Vladivostok, 1827, Ophee (you can look it up).
mata...@gmail.com
Wrong part of Russia. the year is about right. It is an old Ukrainian
folk song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze6n3nDv1fQ
MO.
Paul Magnussen
> We (DOREMI) are going to restore these tracks as best as we can,
So you're Doremi? I have to thank you, then, for the Segovia and His
Contemporaries series, which has made available a lot of stuff that
would have otherwise sunk without trace -- including Vicente G�mez's
early recordings, such as Canci�n Triste (By Francisco Calleja).
Paul Magnussen
Richard Yates
First claim: corrected by one who knows
Second claim: "about right"
Third claim: not denied!
I rest my case.
JonLorPro
That's a beautiful piece. It has many traits in common with the tune
we now know as "Romance d'Amor"- the two share a lot of some of the
same
DNA, so to speak. But to me the organizational dissimilarites are
enough to preclude saying that Romance d'Amor, or Romanza "is"
that song.
The Ukrainian song, or one similar, may well have been a factor, even
if not consciously recognized as such in the mind of whoever first
penned the currently recognizable Romanza, but perhaps not. As Miguel
pointed out, such a piece is easily borne out of endemic noodling on
the instrument, and some of the motives which at first seem to be
"aha!"ably to be seized upon are very basic material- such as, on the
subdominant chord in a minor key, a diatonic
stepwise gesture in the melody commencing
from the fourth degree through a passing tone up a minor third to the
sixth degree, followed by a descending step to the fifth degree as
the chord changes to the dominant. Sounds like that A minor to B
major
spot in Romanza! And like a million other things as well.
Andrew Schulman
> That's a beautiful piece. It has many traits in common with the tune
> we now know as "Romance d'Amor"- the two share a lot of some of the
> same
> DNA, so to speak. But to me the organizational dissimilarites are
> enough to preclude saying that Romance d'Amor, or Romanza "is"
> that song.
>
>
conversations about this piece with musicians who have come in to hear
me at Alouette (it's located in the neighborhood with more
professional musicians per capita than any other the world, my
guess :-) and the general consensus is as you described it. There is
the Yepes story, and more interesting, the Vicente Gomez story which
you know well.
So, it is probably a good time to reveal the true origin. It was
written by my Grandpa Max in 1895 on the way here, on the boat, as
they were passing the Statue of Liberty. The sight of the Grand Lady
inspired him. One of his Spanish guitar friends on the Lower East
Side then returned to Spain and the recording Jack mentioned was made.
Andresito
JonLorPro
wrote:
>... it is probably a good time to reveal the true origin. It was
> written by my Grandpa Max in 1895 on the way here, on the boat....
So, you're Grandpa "Max"? Then he no doubt first conceived as a
"Maxixe", to whit:
(copy and paste to notepad or some other monospaced font to restore
legibility)
| * | * | * | * | * | * | * |
*
|-----------------|----------------||-7-------7---5--|-3-------3---2--|
|---------0-------|---------0------||---------0------|---------0------|
|-------0-------0-|-------2-----2-
*||-------0-----0--|-------2-----2--|
|-----2-------2---|-----1----------||----------------|-----1----------|
|-----------------|---------2-----
*||-----7----------|---------2------|
|-0-------3-------|-2--------------||-0-------3------|-2--------------|
| * | * | * | * | * | * | * |
*
|-0-------3---7--|-12------10--8--|-8-------7---5--|-5-------7---8--|
|---------0------|---------0------|---------5------|----------------|
|-------0--------|------10--------|-------5--------|-------0--------|
|-----2----------|----------------|-----4----------|-----7----------|
|----------------|-----11---------|-0--------------|---------9------|
|-3-------2------|-0--------------|----------------|-8--------------|
etc.
Andrew Schulman
> "Maxixe"
>
Yes, he wrote the first version of that too.
Andrew
fol...@yahoo.com
Good to meet you in Toronto at the competition
Any opinions on this topic:
http://www.delcamp.us/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44233
Mark
On Feb 11, 5:13 pm, Jack <jack.sil...@rogers.com> wrote:
JonLorPro
>
> So, you're Grandpa "Max"?
Idiot! "your" (that's beneath myself)
> .."Maxixe", to whit:
>
> (copy and paste to notepad or some other monospaced font to restore
> legibility)
"legibility", right. This should fix it- if you want to go to further
length in pursuit of a silly joke, that is.
>
> | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | *
> |-----------------|----------------||-7-------7---5--|-3-------3---2--|
> |---------0-------|---------0------||---------0------|---------0------|
> |-------0-------0-|-------2-----2-*||-------0-----0--|-------2-----2--|
> |-----2-------2---|-----1----------||----------------|-----1----------|
> |-----------------|---------2-----*||-----7----------|---------2------|
Jack
> Hi Jack,
> Good to meet you in Toronto at the competition
> Any opinions on this topic:
>
> http://www.delcamp.us/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44233
>
> Mark
>
Hi Mark,
I'm familiar with the "Tarrega" cylinder, although I've never heard
it.
In the book "El Fonografo en Espana: Cilindros Espanoles", the author,
M. Gomez Montejano writes: "Tarrega visito Granada en el ano 1899, y
alli estaba el fabricante de cilindros 'Casares', y en una gran
coleccion aparecida en esta bella ciudad aparece un cilindro grande,
de los llamados de cinco pulgadas, interpretado por D. Francisco
Tarrega. No parece ilogico pensar que teniendo en cuenta que durante
su estancia en esta ciudad,acompanado de su alumna y buena amiga
Concha Gomez de Jacoby, no solo encontrara inspiracion para componer
su mas celebre obra "Recuerdos de la Alhambra", sino que tambien
grabara un cilindro para la posteridad." So, it's very possible he
might have recorded a cylinder (or two) for posterity.
Also, on the newsgroup guitarra.artepulsado.com, Julio Gimeno writes,
in 2003: "En la noticia publicada en el Diario de Levante de 15 de
noviembre del 2002 (lo siento, ya no funciona el enlace de Internet
que incluí en un principio), se decía que al inicio de la grabación
una voz dice: "Gavota de concierto por Don Francisco Tárrega". Según
el periódico, ese tipo de encabezamientos servía para ajustar los
distintos aparatos de grabación que funcionaban al unísono con el fin
de obtener más de una copia a la vez.
No sabemos si la voz se refiere al compositor o al intérprete, aunque
parece extraño que no se mencionase al intérprete, así que es muy
probable que se trate del propio Tárrega. En la noticia también leemos
que el anterior propietario de la colección de cilindros, antes de que
ésta llegase a las manos del chamarilero que se la vendió a Floriano
Álvarez (Adrián lo llama Mariano), había catalogado los cilindros en
un cuaderno en el que hacía constar "la obra interpretada, la casa
grabadora y el ejecutante". De confirmarse este hecho, ahí podríamos
tener una evidencia más del intérprete de la Gavota. Podría ser
interesante cotejar lo allí escrito para la otra obra supuestamente
grabada por Tárrega, la "Danza negros", un título que, según Adrián
Rius, pudiera hacer referencia a una obra de Louis Moreau Gottschalk
(1829-1869), quizá su op. 2, Bamboula: Danse des nègres. Recordemos
que Tárrega transcribió una obra de este pianista, el Gran trémolo,
op. 58.
All very intriguing. But will we ever really know?
Jack