Best guitar
Tashi
best. It looks like they were all recorded at the Naxos studio, so
they should all have the same recording quality. My guess is Dylla is
playing a double top. Petrit a traditional, and Jouve is playing a
Smallman.
Marcin Dylla
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zOFrb7MYek
Petrit Ceku
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7EJbEws9yM
Jeremy Jouve
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83vBKKG05c4
MT
Andrew Schulman
said what you think they are because of preferences, I prefer
traditionals from my own experience, but I listened several times to
each (not all the way through).
Andrew
h.kh...@gmx.de
I like Dylla's sound best, but that may be the guitarist rather than
the guitar.
You might want to further compare the three with the following, which
looks like a brand new Dammann - it has an entiely different type of
sound, quite 'heavy', but interesting nonetheless:
http://www.viazovskiy.de/media/sonata-giocosa.wmv
Hesham
steve ganz
diffrerently, and even though the recording quality is good for each,I
think some recording parameters are different...
My feelings are shaded by my bias: I like to hear the guitar, not the
effects... those piece all have something in common... the last note
tells how much reverb was added in the studio. Try this, listen to the
last 5 seconds of each piece....
Dyllas's sounded like too much reverb or 'space' added for my taste,
although that makes the trebles silky, I don't enjoy the overall effect.
That fingerboard extension over the soundhole looks a bit gothic.
Ceku's was the richest sound, but again too much reverb... the last
chord is the giveaway that confirms it for me.
Jouve's is (IMHO) the best combination of guitar and recording, probably
because his guitar needs the most reverb, but less was apparently added.
Again, the last chord is the tell about how much space was added.
That was sorta fun. I realize that as a guitar builder, I am want to
hear the guitar, and am probably atypical.
sg
la...@deack.net
I agree about Dylla. Thanks for posting the Roman Viazovskiy. What a
marvelous player!
la...@deack.net
> I think some recording parameters are different...
That's what I hear too.
Tashi
Andrew that was just a guess on my part. I don't know for sure if
they are double tops ,or traditional. I know the Jouve guitar is a
Smallman.
MT
John LaCroix
> best. It looks like they were all recorded at the Naxos studio, so
> they should all have the same recording quality. My guess is Dylla is
> playing a double top. Petrit a traditional, and Jouve is playing a
> Smallman.
>
>
> Petrit Cekuhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7EJbEws9yM
>
> Jeremy Jouvehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83vBKKG05c4
>
I like Dyllah's the best. I didn't like the tone of the low bass
string on the second guitar, and the smallman sounded a bit thin to
me.
John L.
Andrew Schulman
> Andrew that was just a guess on my part. I don't know for sure if
> they are double tops ,or traditional. I know the Jouve guitar is a
> Smallman.
>
>
Andrew
la...@deack.net
Yeah, I bet he also loves the great price.
Ivan
> Dear friends please tell us which of these three guitars sounds the
> best. It looks like they were all recorded at the Naxos studio, so
> they should all have the same recording quality. My guess is Dylla is
> playing a double top. Petrit a traditional, and Jouve is playing a
> Smallman.
>
>
> Petrit Cekuhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7EJbEws9yM
>
> Jeremy Jouvehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83vBKKG05c4
>
> MT
I like Dylla the best too... If the plays what he usually plays, the
guitar should be a double-top Teryks.
I actually visited Teryks about two years ago in Mainz, Germany -
extremely nice guy...
Tashi
I think that's the guy Marcin told me first came up with the double
top idea. Do you you know anything about that story?
MT
Richard Jernigan
choice. Though his instrument has some of that mid-range harshness of
the double-top, I like it best. Cerik's instrument is both more
reticent and cooler sounding--but how much of that is the guitarist,
and how much the guitar? I like Jouve's Smallman the least. I kept
thinking "like a snare drum"---but I suppose "banjo" will do. It just
doesn't sound like a guitar.
Having said that, John Williams' amplified Smallman in the big 19th
century opera house at Merida sounded great. But he didn't play as
well as any of these three.
RNJ
enp...@cox.net
string sound. The notes go 'thud'. Compare to Dyalla's sound where the
bass is firm and tuneful.
Raptor
If you read down in the comments, one writes Dylla is playing a Teryks
"sequoia" top, which would mean Redwood. If true, its the only Naxos
recording of which I'm aware, made on a Redwood instrument.
enp...@cox.net
> If you read down in the comments, one writes Dylla is playing a Teryks
> "sequoia" top, which would mean Redwood. If true, its the only Naxos
>
> - Show quoted text -
I went to Teryks' site. He does offer redwood as a top wood. A
composite top is one option, so can we be sure Dyalla's guitar is
composite? Of cage-rattling significance for Tashi, I note his guitar
are all lattice-braced with wood/carbon fiber bracing.
I find his asthetic, uh, Dracula-like.
Tashi
I would have to agree with Richard. The Smallman is obviuosly the
worse instrument. It has the typical "banjo" sound associated with
most Smallmans. Also it is very thin in the treble, and is incapable
of much depth. Both of the other guitars are much warmer. For me
it's a toss up between the other two, there are things I like about
both, and it would seem to come down to how each responds to a players
touch.
Nick Caluoses (sp?) played a concert at Oberlin recently on a
Smallman. There was another very good player who also played there
( can't remember his name) on a Ruck. I have it from well placed
sorces the Ruck blew away the Smallman.
Question in my mind is what's up with these guys who are still
playing Smallman guitars? Are they mentaly deranged, do they all have
small dicks? Were they abused as childern by other kids on the block
with louder guitars?
MT
jeff carter
I met Boguslaw Teryks and played one of his guitars at the 2004
Barrueco masterclasses at Peabody, and was very impressed. Lukasz
Kuropaczewski plays a Teryks, and we watched he and Manuel compare two
Teryks and Manuel's Dammann side-by-side after class one day. Talk
about filling a hall!
--Jeff
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.youtube.com/jeffretrac
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/4/jeffcarter_music.htm
Andrew Schulman
> I would have to agree with Richard. The Smallman is obviuosly the
> worse instrument. It has the typical "banjo" sound associated with
> most Smallmans. Also it is very thin in the treble, and is incapable
> of much depth. Both of the other guitars are much warmer. For me
> it's a toss up between the other two, there are things I like about
>
>
I hear why so many people like the Dylla, it has a nice sparkle, but I
think the Ceku has a more complex and at the same time rounded tone,
more variety, and is better balanced.
All of which is to say we are really comparing recordings with
different players, not the guitars themselves, but based on this it is
very noticeable how much of a drop off there is with the Smallman.
Andrew
enp...@cox.net
> I hear why so many people like the Dylla, it has a nice sparkle, but I
> think the Ceku has a more complex and at the same time rounded tone,
> more variety, and is better balanced.
>
> All of which is to say we are really comparing recordings with
> different players, not the guitars themselves, but based on this it is
> very noticeable how much of a drop off there is with the Smallman.
>
> Andrew
It's a crying shame, too, as Jouve seems to be a really wonderful
player. With his touch and skill one wonders how he might sound with a
better-sounding guitar.
la...@deack.net
He sounds great live.
Tashi
Yea, you know it's hard to tell some of these guys anything. You think
it's hard to turn a republican on to reality, try telling some of
these guys their guitar sucks. For the time being, may he relish in
the feeling of having a Smallman, the sense of accomplishment, glory,
it's simply a matter of time.
MT
la...@deack.net
>
> Yea, you know it's hard to tell some of these guys anything. You think
> it's hard to turn a republican on to reality, try telling some of
> these guys their guitar sucks. For the time being, may he relish in
> the feeling of having a Smallman, the sense of accomplishment, glory,
> it's simply a matter of time.
> MT
I found him to be a very thoughtful young man so perhaps we don't
know the whole story. He is not out for glory and is quite humble
about his playing.
As you said of guitarist talking at dinner, we didn't talk much
about guitars. He was reading a book about an American working in
Paris and when I told him about my experience he was struck by how
similar it was to the book with the whole handshake in the morning
thing and long lunches.
Tashi
Larry I'm not suggesting Jouve is actually like that, I'm sure he is a
nice guy. I 'm just saying it can be very confussing to understand the
reasons very good players are attrached to certain guitars.
I agree that artist with interests besides guitar, guitar, guitar,
24/7 make for better all around musicans and actually have more to say
in their playing.
MT
la...@deack.net
>
> Larry I'm not suggesting Jouve is actually like that, I'm sure he is a
> nice guy.
I didn't think so but your tone sometimes comes off that way and I
wanted to make it clear so thanks for making it clear.
Ivan
>
> - Show quoted text -
Not sure if he came first with this idea (or Damman/Wagner) but I
remember he told me that he is using a lattice bracing under the
double top. I played two of his guitars (double top spruce) and was
really impressed by one of them (the other one was just finished and
had not oppened yet I guess) but at that time his price tag was too
high for me. Again, a very nice guy (he invited me in his house, we
talked a lot, he even gave me a brand new CD of M. Dylla.) Afterwards
I have listened to his guitar played by L. Kuropaczewski, also a great
player...
OTOH, has any of you used a redwood for top? The idea sounds
interesting.... Never played a redowod top guitar.
Tashi
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'm making a double top redwood as we speak, it will be done in about
10 days.
Redwood was Oribe's wood of choice I believe. I also had a friend who
bought the guitar on shown on the cover of "Parkening plays Bach" it
is a redwood guitar as well. I'm not sure if Parkening played that
guitar on the album or if it was just one or two peices or just the
photo ( I can't remember the story).
MT
Tashi
Correction Colusues played a Dammann.
MT
steve ganz
Since then I've run across some really nice ones, but I'm really a
spruce guy.
ganzo
John R.
> Dear friends please tell us which of these three guitars sounds the
> best. It looks like they were all recorded at the Naxos studio, so
> they should all have the same recording quality. My guess is Dylla is
> playing a double top. Petrit a traditional, and Jouve is playing a
> Smallman.
>
> Marcin Dyllahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zOFrb7MYek
>
> Petrit Cekuhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7EJbEws9yM
>
> Jeremy Jouvehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83vBKKG05c4
>
> MT
The premise is flawed, since they were not recorded at the same time.
You can not even say if it was the same engineers, equipment, and/or
settings. In a nutshell -- too many uncontrolled variables.
I'll make you a deal. Ship me one of your guitars and I'll have it
recorded with the same strings, recording equipment, the player, at
the same time, etc. and do the same with a Smallman. You can review
those recordings and make a better comparision. Afterwards, I'll send
your guitar back to you...eventually...
John
Tashi
OK John, I'll "eventually" send you one! But don't hold your breath
between now and then.
Those guitars were recorded in the same room with the same equipment.
Norbert Kraft I believe is the engineer, or at least used to be. Of
course the comparission is flawed so are peoples ears.
MT
Richard Jernigan
>
> MT
A few years ago a writer for "Money" magazine investigated the factors
that went into pricing the most expensive violins: millions of bucks.
He interviewed the top six fiddle dealers in the world. They pretty
much agreed on the main factors. They included provenance--could you
prove who made it? Condition. Previous ownership by a violin
celebrity...and so on. None of them mentioned sound or playability. In
fact, when questioned, every one of the dealers said sound had nothing
to do with price.
The writer was amazed. A musical instrument, and sound didn't enter
into the value? He pursued the subject further. One dealer took pity
on him and explained. The greatest players differed so much in their
evaluation of a given instrument, that their opinions cancelled out.
RNJ
castleb...@att.net
"Tashi" <michae...@starband.net> wrote in message
news:7513d05f-187e-4f05...@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> Dear friends please tell us which of these three guitars sounds the
> best. It looks like they were all recorded at the Naxos studio, so
> they should all have the same recording quality. My guess is Dylla is
> playing a double top. Petrit a traditional, and Jouve is playing a
> Smallman.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zOFrb7MYek
>
>
> Petrit Ceku
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7EJbEws9yM
>
> Jeremy Jouve
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83vBKKG05c4
>
> MT
Either one, two or three.
Bob
John LaCroix
I'm finishing up a redwood topped 7-string. Should be finished in a
week or two.
John L.
Andrew Schulman
> The writer was amazed. A musical instrument, and sound didn't enter
> into the value? He pursued the subject further. One dealer took pity
> on him and explained. The greatest players differed so much in their
> evaluation of a given instrument, that their opinions cancelled out.
>
>
http://www.fritz-reuter.com/articles/guardian/messiah/lordofthestrings-messiahstrad.htm
Andrew
Andrew Schulman
> The most famous Strad has hardly ever been played:
>
>
>
If it is a Strad; I forgot to mention this:
http://www.soundpostonline.com/archive/fall2000/page17.html
The Stewart Pollens in the article is the conservator at the Met
Museum instrument collection who I've mentioned here before.
Andrew
Antony
than a Smallman though.
"Tashi" <michae...@starband.net> wrote in message
news:7513d05f-187e-4f05...@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> Dear friends please tell us which of these three guitars sounds the
> best. It looks like they were all recorded at the Naxos studio, so
> they should all have the same recording quality. My guess is Dylla is
> playing a double top. Petrit a traditional, and Jouve is playing a
> Smallman.
>
la...@deack.net
What surprising to me is that the writer did not know that art has
become a commodity and that people want to buy the fantasy of secrets
more than the reality of what they can create themselves.
I bet MT can make some serious bucks channeling him and saying he
found the secret but is now making magic guitars.
Richard Jernigan
It's been at least a couple of years since I read the article in
"Money", probably more. The writer seemed quite aware of the irony of
methodically attaching a monetary value to an art object. He was
impressed by what appeared to him as the unanimity of the high end
dealers on the non-artistic components of the price. To the writer (as
I recollect) the supreme irony was that artistic judgment of the
musical qualities of a musical instrument played no role in its price.
Jose Ramirez III in "Things About the Guitar" tells of keeping at
least six instruments in the shop for players to choose from. One
guitar was immediately rejected by one respected professional player.
Ramirez said he felt a little ashamed of it, and put it aside. A few
months later another respected professional appeared. Ramirez had only
five guitars to choose from, but decided to put in the "reject" just
to make up the customary half dozen. The "reject" was the enthusiastic
first choice of the second professional.
The best guitar for me, well might not be the best guitar for you.
I used to go to Spain in the sixties and seventies and buy two or
three 1a's from Ramirez. The resale price of only one of them in the
USA would pay for my trip. Ramirez once asked how I chose the guitars
I bought.
"I buy the ones I like."
"What if your customers don't like them?"
"I get to play them longer."
Ramirez laughed, and told me the story he put in the book.
RNJ
Tashi
>
> - Show quoted text -
Great story Richard, there's a guitar for everyone.
MT
Richard Jernigan
In fact there were so few even decent guitars in the USA in the
sixties and seventies, and so few sophisticated players, that the
Ramirez guitars sold as soon as a guitar enthusiast with enough money
turned up.
RNJ
mikeduma...@gmail.com
> Dear friends please tell us which of these three guitars sounds the
> best. It looks like they were all recorded at the Naxos studio, so
> they should all have the same recording quality. My guess is Dylla is
> playing a double top. Petrit a traditional, and Jouve is playing a
> Smallman.
>
> Marcin Dylla
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zOFrb7MYek
>
>
> Petrit Ceku
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7EJbEws9yM
>
> Jeremy Jouve
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83vBKKG05c4
>
> MT
Learnwell
Richard Jernigan
> > I love all three!...I embrace the modern sound right along with traditional...I do feel that this sound would be different live than the recording. Still the same, superb performances!
>
> Put a sock in it. Why not use yours?
RNJ
tom g
> I saw and heard David Russell last night playing his Dammann. I was in the fourth row, and had a good view and heard clearly. I was about to post a comment about his sound, but then I saw that Mr. Know-it-all had entered the discussion.
>
> RNJ
tom g
Ken Blake
Charlie
I don't believe that a guitar will ever have the carrying power of most other instruments. I believe a guitar is meant for small intimate groups and that's where its charm lies. It is meant to be intimate. In a loud world where everyone wishes to be heard, a shy quiet instrument is most welcomed.
Charlie
Learnwell
> but then I saw that Mr. Know-it-all had entered the discussion.
Typical Guitarist
dsi1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67Uxh7ySz2g
Charlie
Charlie
Richard Jernigan
dsi1
> I didn't express myself very well. I was thinking un-amped, purely acoustic.
>
> Charlie
>