Yamashita question
Steven Smith
Thanks
Steven
Peter Inglis
http://www2.dejima.co.jp/kojin/satou/yamashita_e.html
http://www.sbgs.org/forum/Winter98/pages/Winter98-7.html
--
Peter Inglis
whole...@one.net.au
Author of "The Whole Guitarist"
www.migman.com/aes
Steven Smith <word...@fluxbuggers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:94pq6t$tgr$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
pedro_f...@my-deja.com
Last July at Santo Tirso guitar festival I participate in an event
called "meeting with Yamashita", where your questions were actually
answered by Yamashita. He lives in Japan in a small city ( i forgot the
name) which he prefers to big cities like Osaka or Tokyo, and doesn't
have students.
I repeat hereunder my previous post reporting this meeting:
Regards
Pedro
On the 9th. Of July at Santo Tirso Guitar Festival (Portugal) was held
an event called meeting with Yamashita. It was the third participation
of Yamashita at Santo Tirso Festival. During 2hr. K. Yamashita answered
questions raised by an audience of guitar students, teachers and
enthusiasts. The talk was mediated by a Portuguese- Japanese translator
making difficult a discussion concerning detailed technical aspects.
Same highlights of the talk:
-- K. Yamashita started to play at 8. His most important teacher was
his father, a guitar teacher. He attends to master classes with Segovia
(20 minutes), Yepes (1hour) and J. Tomas (4 hr) very short and yet
useful relations as Yamashita said. He also mentioned that during the
first years Segovia, Yepes and Bream records were a motivation to play.
-- The night before Yamashita played Castelnuovo Tedesco 24 caprichos
de Goya. The performance of each capricho was accompaigned by the
projection of the respective Goya's image. Yamashita was grateful to
Santo Tirso for the opportunity to present the complete work. When asked
which of the 24 Caprichos he likes more or could remark as more
expressive, Yamashita said it would be indelicate for him to answer that
question.
-- 2 hr. before a concert he plays whatever goes through his mind, but
not the pieces of the concert, in order to warm the guitar (does were
his words). Curiously he said he doesn't need to warm up the fingers.
There's no special routine on the day of the concert; he just takes his
normal live.
-- He plays a Ramirez guitar with high-tension strings. He has a
Japanese Kohno guitar at home, perhaps one day he will use it in
concert.
-- He didn't mention how many hours he practices a day. " I play
whenever I want from morning to night". He has no special discipline or
method to practice
--He build up some non-standard technique in order to interpret the
pieces he loved e.g. Pictures at an Exhibition. During the concert I
noticed that very often in really fast passages he plays with i-a
alternation. I asked him to confirm that. He was surprised with the
question because during performance he his not conscious of which
fingers are playing. "I just play with any available finger"
--He has no students even in Japan. He doesn't give master-classes.
"I'm not sure if I would be a good teacher". "I'm fully committed to
prepare and always improve my playing"
-- He was asked several times to indicate some of the guitar works which
he consider more difficult. He avoided mentioning any particular piece
or composer. "I just look at the score and if I feel I don't like it I
don't play". "If we love the piece nothing is difficult".
-- Although in the past he gave up to 100 concerts a year, presently he
has a less busy concert schedule. "If I give less concerts I can prepare
them better". However if he has invitations to debut in new countries he
always tries to be available.
-- As favorite composers he mentioned Bach, Tippet and Britten. No plans
to transcribe other piano or orchestral romantic works.
-He confirms that many of his records are only available in Japan. It's
a matter with the record company distribution policy that he doesn't
control. Having read once in this NG that the complete works of Sor (16
CD set) were recorded in 3 days I asked him to confirm this achievement,
he corrected me "they were recorded in 16 days".
Although there was a certain feeling of frustration since Yamashita
didn't reveal any special secret or formula to explain it's
transcendental performances, the purpose of the meeting was achieved we
end up knowing more about him. In the end we all went to take a drink
and going on chatting in a Portuguese-Japanese-English-sign language
this time without a translator. K. Yamashita was always an extremely
nice and accessible person.
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Peter Inglis
Peter Inglis
whole...@one.net.au
Author of "The Whole Guitarist"
www.migman.com/aes
<pedro_f...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:94rjfn$c7p$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
<snip yamashita interview)
Steven Smith
SS
pedro_f...@my-deja.com wrote in message <94rjfn$c7p$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
Klaus Heim
"Steven Smith" <word...@fluxbuggers.freeserve.co.uk> schrieb im
Newsbeitrag news:94svco$60b$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Thanks for that. What a shame he doesn't teach.
For over 10 years I have been learning from him.
Klaus
Yamashita Fan
YF
"Steven Smith" <word...@fluxbuggers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:94pq6t$tgr$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
Peter Inglis
Peter Inglis
whole...@one.net.au
Author of "The Whole Guitarist"
www.migman.com/aes
Yamashita Fan <yam...@guitar.com> wrote in message
news:eaqc6.11764$k%3.36...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Klaus Heim
"Peter Inglis" <whole...@one.net.au> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3a727...@news01.one.net.au...
> Yamashita troll you mean!
I was already starting to wonder, what was keeping the inevitable
anti-Yamashita posts. I remember Pedro's excellent post from the first time
round.
Klaus
Peter Inglis
I
guess that would remove the "pleasure" they get from it!
Peter Inglis
whole...@one.net.au
Author of "The Whole Guitarist"
www.migman.com/aes
Klaus Heim <klh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:94u3h0$24ci$2...@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de...
<snip>> I was already starting to wonder, what was keeping the inevitable
Yamashita Fan
Yamashita's playing is pure crap!
YF
"Peter Inglis" <whole...@one.net.au> wrote in message
news:3a727...@news01.one.net.au...
Bob Ashley
"Yamashita Fan" <yam...@guitar.com> wrote:
> No problem being called a troll. It allows me to call 'em as I see 'em.
>
> Yamashita's playing is pure crap!
The animals in the barn munch quietly on their feed, unperturbed by the
clamor of a cross-eyed crow in rafters.
--
rib
Steven Smith
Klaus Heim wrote in message <94t1ms$1oc4$1...@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>...
What does he think of your progress? : )
Steven
Matanya Ophee
"Klaus Heim" <klh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I was already starting to wonder, what was keeping the inevitable
> anti-Yamashita posts.
I think the delay was caused by the writer's hasty need to come back in
here under an assumed identity. Takes a while to manufacture one. But
the _style_ of the invective, the choice of that particular screen name,
are unmistakenly transparent.
--
Matanya Ophee Mailto:m.o...@orphee.com
Editions Orphée, Inc. http://www.orphee.com
1240 Clubview Blvd. N. phone: 614-846-9517
Columbus, OH 43235-1226 Fax: 614-846-9794
Evan Pyle
sufficient musical knowledge, technical skill, interpretive finesse and
"chops" to pass such knowledgeable judgment on a towering musical genius?
(Regardless of one's opinion of Yamashita's musical and technical
approaches)
Pause...
I thought not.
--
Evan Pyle
Matanya Ophee <m.o...@orphee.com> wrote in message
news:94v3os$4b6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Klaus Heim
"Matanya Ophee" <m.o...@orphee.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:94v3os$4b6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <94u3h0$24ci$2...@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>,
> "Klaus Heim" <klh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I was already starting to wonder, what was keeping the inevitable
> > anti-Yamashita posts.
>
> I think the delay was caused by the writer's hasty need to come back in
> here under an assumed identity. Takes a while to manufacture one. But
> the _style_ of the invective, the choice of that particular screen name,
> are unmistakenly transparent.
What I can understand is that people are morally such light-weights, that
they think it a good idea to post their invectives under the cover of a
pseudonym. What wonders me every time is that the same people are also
stupid enough to think that no one will see through their smoke screen. The
wonders of life!
Klaus
Yamashita Fan
notes, moves around like Jethro Tull while playing, and thinks that
recording everything at the speed of light somehow all adds up to art
YF
"Evan Pyle" <enp...@home.com> wrote in message
news:EdHc6.123601$ge4.43...@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com...
Peter Inglis
Peter Inglis
whole...@one.net.au
Author of "The Whole Guitarist"
www.migman.com/aes
Yamashita Fan <yam...@guitar.com> wrote in message
news:WXLc6.1527$2t5.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Ed Chait
> he bastardizes arrangements of otherwise fine music, plays sloppy and
misses
> notes, moves around like Jethro Tull while playing, and thinks that
> recording everything at the speed of light somehow all adds up to art
>
"Jethro Tull" is the name of the band. If you are referring to Ian
Andersen, he is a very fine musician, regardless of how he moves.
Ed Chait
Klaus Heim
> If I could attain half the notes he misses I would be a happy little
camper!
Having been listening to his "Pictures" (which seems to be what most people
get hung up on) for a long time (it was the first CD I ever bought), I was
very astonished, upon reading this newsgroup, that Yamashita is mainly seen
as a fast guitarist. To me this was never an important aspect of his
playing. (As I mentioned before, the fastest scale by him, that comes to
mind, is very well hidden in the Stravinsky.) Some track lengths, the odd
tracks are due to the listing on the Yamashita recording. Following
Yamashita's times are the original piano version, recorded by Alfred Brendel
and the Ravel version, recorded by André Previn:
Promenade + Gnomus - 4.13 (3.59, 4.14)
Promenade + Castle - 5.54 (5.44, 5.27)
Promenade + Tuileries - 1.25 (1.27, 1.34)
Bydlo - 2.57 (2.55, 2.39)
Promenade + Chickens - 2.09 (1.47, 1.56)
Goldberg + Schmuyle - 2.28 (2.16, 2.22)
Limoges - 1.16 (1.23, 1.28)
Catacombs - 2.31 (1.58, 2.15)
Con mortuis - 2.35 (2.20, 2.01)
Baba Yaga - 3.04 (3.20, 3.32)
Kiev - 6.52 (5.02, 6.04)
(Does anybody know, why Yamashita leaves out the last Promenade?)
His Mompou and Asencio are at times delicate. Comparing track lengths, due
to different repetitions is difficult, I don't want to sit here with a
metronome. Lacking another recording, I can't compare his Manen. His musical
qualities are undisputed. The score of his Pictures belongs in every
guitarist's library. What astonished me the most is how subtle he can be,
when accompanying the flute.
Then again, I am not a Yamashita expert, due to the few recordings and
scores I have by him, and I have never heard him live.
Klaus
Lutemann
>Can anyone tell me: is Yamashita based in Japan? Does he teach at all?
>
Let's hope not.
*****************************************************
Kent Murdick
Sample from my new method book: http://members.aol.com/lutemann/book1.jpg
http://members.aol.com/lutemann/guitar.html
Peter Inglis
<snip>> Having been listening to his "Pictures" (which seems to be what most
people
> get hung up on) for a long time (it was the first CD I ever bought), I was
> very astonished, upon reading this newsgroup, that Yamashita is mainly
seen
> as a fast guitarist. To me this was never an important aspect of his
I have his score of Pictures, but alas not the recording anymore ; < (
I got through the 1st page of "The Ballet of the Little Chickens'... after a
fashion. What a great transcription! It inspires me to work harder on more
basic material with the Pictures there as an 'aspiration point'.
<snip observations on tempo and track lengths >
--
Klaus Heim
> Klaus Heim <klh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:951655$14qc$1...@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de...
> <snip>> Having been listening to his "Pictures" (which seems to be what
most
> people
> > get hung up on) for a long time (it was the first CD I ever bought), I
was
> > very astonished, upon reading this newsgroup, that Yamashita is mainly
> seen
> > as a fast guitarist. To me this was never an important aspect of his
> > playing. <snip>
>
> I have his score of Pictures, but alas not the recording anymore ; < (
> I got through the 1st page of "The Ballet of the Little Chickens'... after
a
> fashion. What a great transcription! It inspires me to work harder on more
> basic material with the Pictures there as an 'aspiration point'.
It taught me a lot about dynamics. For example "Bydlo", how it slowly builds
up until it reaches those rasg. chords. And the fingering (right hand
especially) is very good, because it gives a lot of help towards tone, where
on the string to play, use of nails and flesh, different methods of attack.
What has fascinated me the most are the different "Promenades", they are
extremely inventive, especially the one before the chickens, great use of
harmonics. And then of course there is "Cum mortuis in lingua mortua", which
acquainted me with the idea of totally individual finger use and the use of
the pinky. It is in these quiet parts where Yamashita excels the most and
his musicality is most visable.
Klaus
Peter Inglis
<snip>
> It taught me a lot about dynamics. For example "Bydlo", how it slowly
builds
> up until it reaches those rasg. chords. And the fingering (right hand
> especially) is very good, because it gives a lot of help towards tone,
where
> on the string to play, use of nails and flesh, different methods of
attack.
> What has fascinated me the most are the different "Promenades", they are
> extremely inventive, especially the one before the chickens, great use of
> harmonics. And then of course there is "Cum mortuis in lingua mortua",
which
> acquainted me with the idea of totally individual finger use and the use
of
> the pinky. It is in these quiet parts where Yamashita excels the most and
> his musicality is most visable.
I agree - the man is a master of colour and dynamics! And the detailed
fingerings in his transcriptions amount to the best sort of (advanced)
teaching material in my opinion.
Lutemann
"Yamashita Fan" <yam...@guitar.com> writes:
>God, I hope he doesn't teach, especially given how awful he plays!
>
>YF
Thank God. One person who has a pair of ears!! I thought I was dwelling in
the land of the deaf.
Evan Pyle
Over the top? At times.
Unconventional? Without a doubt.
Stretching the limits of what a guitar can do to the point of 'breaking up'?
Yes.
Technically sanitized & soulless? Hardly
Musically satisfying, enlightening, challenging?
An unqualified yes!
Evan
--
Lutemann <lute...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010129070314...@nso-cr.aol.com...
Dawn and Todd Tipton
Lutemann wrote:
>
> In article <eaqc6.11764$k%3.36...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> "Yamashita Fan" <yam...@guitar.com> writes:
>
> >God, I hope he doesn't teach, especially given how awful he plays!
> >
> >YF
>
> Thank God. One person who has a pair of ears!! I thought I was dwelling in
> the land of the deaf.
>
> *****************************************************
> Kent Murdick
Hello all,
I am not writing to slam Yamashita. But I do have
a serious question. I have never had the
opportunity to hear him perform and can only base
any opinions on a mere handful of recordings I
own. What I have heard, he often plays very harsh
to the point of choking the sound and buzzing
notes. If anything, I would assume that
recordings (due to editing) would be more accurate
than live performances in general.
That being said, it might be construed as
reasonable to assume that Yamashita deliberatly
intends to get those sounds. Now personally, I
don't care for it. But I am cautious to judge
beyond my personal listening tastes. Why? How
can someone be able to play like that and miss
something so obvious? It just doesn't seem
logical that someone would be able to achieve such
a high level of playing in one sense, and then
completely miss the boat in a more easy sense.
Therefor, I suspend judgement, other than personal
tastes, because it very well could be something
over my head.
But on the other side, I also know (won't name
names for the sake of reputations) a good handful
of world class performers who thinks what
Yamashita does is anything but make music. To be
fair, I also know many performers who like
Yamashita. I don't think many could argue well
that Yamashita doesn't bring controversy; he does.
From my personal experiences, I know that, at
least a few people, who know a great deal about
music thinks his playing is bogus, and also just
the opposite.
With all of this being said, not much is really
said. Whatever he is doing, I don't get it and I
am not alone. So here is my question: Is
Yamashita well recieved by others because his
technical skills are so unusual that they
overshadow everything else? Or is Yamashita on
some interprative level that is out of the realms
of many fine people to consume? And to prevent an
either/or fallacy, is it something else not
stated?
best,
Todd Tipton,
Minneapolis, Mn.
Klaus Heim
>
> I agree - the man is a master of colour and dynamics! And the detailed
> fingerings in his transcriptions amount to the best sort of (advanced)
> teaching material in my opinion.
Seeing the difficulties those of limited capabilities have with Yamashita, I
will not name a guitarist, who, in my opinion, surpasses Yamashita, or I
will surely hear minds going "pop". Since hearing the ease, which with he
handles the Rodrigo Preludes, I have been following his music. One must
imagine Yamashita not being bound by his transcriptions, but instead playing
concert paraphrases, really letting it rip. When I feel daring, I envison
him meeting with Yamashita and Fisk for a "Friday Night in San Francisco" -
and then I see them both lay their instruments aside and listen in awe. To
put it in the words of one of our more eloquent members "he is just your
run-of-the-mill genius".
Klaus
P.S. Looking at your site, have you worked through the Yamashita Beethoven?
I only have the Pictures and the Dvorak.
Evan Pyle
perspective to the "not much being said here"...
My admiration for Yamashita is qualified by my distaste for some of the
rough extramusical sounds he produces. Upon first listening to pictures,
yes I was amazed at his prowess and inventiveness in solving the problems
the piece presents. Now I admire him for his musical taste and have learned
to 'listen through' the extramusical (especially those godawful two-finger
rapid scale passages) to the interpretation. Pictures calls for some mighty
big climaxes and his raucousness helps (to me) to suggest what the guitar
cannot do. And I admire his chutzpah.
Similarly, but on a lesser scale, one must listen through extramusical
garbage with Segovia or Bream...but on the other side of that garbage, music
is being made.
That said, I fully understand anyone not being able to "listen through" to
Yamashita's musical depth...there is a lot of extramusical baggage.
--
Evan Pyle
Dawn and Todd Tipton <dawntod...@uswest.net> wrote in message
news:3A75BAE1...@uswest.net...
Klaus Heim
"Dawn and Todd Tipton" <dawntod...@uswest.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3A75BAE1...@uswest.net...
Very interesting questions Todd, and many I have asked myself over time.
Following are solely personal observations, no hope of generalization.
I have not come to sufficient answers. In my personal taste he overdoes it
at times, but I see this overdoing less a fault of him, but more a fault of
the limits of the instrument he is playing. Of course everybody is going to
say that one cannot play more guitar than there is, but I have always seen
Yamashita more as a musician, not as a guitarist. He has a vision and he
will set this vision to music - no holds barred. His limits are those of the
guitar, not those within himself. His playing puts him more in the tradition
of Liszt and Paganini than some of our revered guitar gods.
Yamashita's technical capalities are not disputable, I hope. Anybody, who
has played (or attempted, as in my case) to play the MCT 24 Caprichos, will
know that it is no mean feat to perform them in one evening. The
interpretive qualities are always open to discussion, but not only
concerning Yamashita, but concerning every artist. Some like Williams, some
don't, some like Segovia, some don't. I personally have guitarists I listen
to more than Yamashita, but I find it important to recognize his place in
the guitar world. He definitely has a place, I think it is not always the
job of his contemporaries to judge this.
I think what bothers his opposition the most is that he is able to pull off
something like his Dvorak or Stravinsky and at the same time he says that he
plays with whatever finger is available. This abundance of technique, this
freedom to choose, this must surely anger those, who have spent their life
following certain "methods". Just the thought of someone doing as he pleases
and on top of that, what pleases him does not please them, o, this must be a
thorn in the side.
And then, it is sad that most of us have so little basis upon which to base
our judgements. I would love to hear his complete Sor, his Bach, all the
Japanese music written for him. As I have said multiple times, what I hear
in him is those sublteties, the Promenades, the Manen Sonata, the celetial
Preludio of the Mompou, the Calma of the Ascencio. Playing from his Pictures
for ca. 10 years, and recently from his Dvorak, I feel I have come to a
better understanding of what he is about.
Concluding I would say that even though we, as a community of guitarists,
shall never reach a unified opinion on him, he is worth a look, if only to
come to the conclusion that one does not agree with his approach. This
disagreement should come after a close look, because there are a few things
every guitarist can learn from him. Is he the pinnacle? No, surely not. As
we have seen, there has been a second recording of his Pictures, things will
change, but he has done a lot of ground-work, has opened doors, has levelled
the path for others to follow.
Klaus
guit...@pacbell.net
>I am not writing to slam Yamashita. But I do have
>a serious question. I have never had the
>opportunity to hear him perform and can only base
>any opinions on a mere handful of recordings I
>own. What I have heard, he often plays very harsh
>to the point of choking the sound and buzzing
>notes. If anything, I would assume that
>recordings (due to editing) would be more accurate
>than live performances in general.
>
to his recorded tone--part of the harshness *could* be due to the
closeness of the recording mics. Here and there he did produce some
overly bright/harsh tones, but as you suggest, they seemed deliberate.
He was also quite accurate, although he did not play any of his
seeminging "impossible" orchestral pieces. He did play some
"ordinarily" difficult works such as Bach's 6th Cello Suite, Britten's
Nocturnal, and an interminable set of Beatles arrangements! A few of
those did require some bizarre/extended techniques--I heard a few
gasps from fellow guitarists! He may have dropped a note or two, but
his playing was generally quite clean this night--far more than the
last time I saw Christopher Parkening...
John O
Lutemann
<dawntod...@uswest.net> writes:
>That being said, it might be construed as
>reasonable to assume that Yamashita deliberatly
>intends to get those sounds. Now personally, I
>don't care for it. But I am cautious to judge
>beyond my personal listening tastes.
Why? I a guy can't play, he can't play.
Why? How
>can someone be able to play like that and miss
>something so obvious? It just doesn't seem
>logical that someone would be able to achieve such
>a high level of playing in one sense, and then
>completely miss the boat in a more easy sense.
It is weird. I'll never understand it, nor will I understand why these people
have an following.
Matanya Ophee
I am not about to wrestle, once again, with some of the more obtuse
opinions expressed in this forum. Not yet, anyway. before I do, I need
to do my own thing. Once it is completed, I might enjoy engaging some
of you in honest discourse. In the meantime, enjoy the following:
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/yamashta.htm
Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
pequenos
wrote:
<snip>
> As
>we have seen, there has been a second recording of his Pictures, things will
>change, but he has done a lot of ground-work, has opened doors, has levelled
>the path for others to follow.
>
>Klaus
>
</snip>
Who else has _recorded_ Pictures? I only know of one other guitarist
who has performed it, Xuefei Yang. And were you talking about
Julian Bream when you mentioned the Rodrigo preludes?
Klaus Heim
"pequenos" <bl...@etc.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:tm2e7t438unvqglj5...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 20:52:47 +0100, "Klaus Heim" <klh...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > As
> >we have seen, there has been a second recording of his Pictures, things
will
> >change, but he has done a lot of ground-work, has opened doors, has
levelled
> >the path for others to follow.
> >
> >Klaus
> >
> </snip>
>
> Who else has _recorded_ Pictures? I only know of one other guitarist
> who has performed it, Xuefei Yang.
I have not heard that version yet. A totally transcription was done by José
Luis Gutierrez for 10-string guitar.
> And were you talking about
> Julian Bream when you mentioned the Rodrigo preludes?
No.
Klaus
Jeff Gower
<m.o...@orphee.com> wrote:
> In the meantime, enjoy the following:
>
> http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/yamashta.htm
Superb article. A joy to read. Thanks.
Jeff
--
www.jeffgower.com
Dawn and Todd Tipton
Lutemann wrote:
>
> In article <3A75BAE1...@uswest.net>, Dawn and Todd Tipton
> <dawntod...@uswest.net> writes:
>
> >That being said, it might be construed as
> >reasonable to assume that Yamashita deliberatly
> >intends to get those sounds. Now personally, I
> >don't care for it. But I am cautious to judge
> >beyond my personal listening tastes.
>
> Why? I a guy can't play, he can't play.
>
Because, just today, I learned something,
according to others, about Yamashita that I hadn't
considered. He DOES intend to get those harsh
sounds. It is another color that he uses. Then
there is the possibility that I don't listen very
objectively to his interpretations because I can't
get past that sound. Adding to this, Mo's article
offered further intriguing curiosity.
And I will tell you (if he really does stick to
the score) being able to perform what he has
notated in his "Pictures" arrangement completely
amazes me. I will tell you that I had the
opportunity to see him perform, but missed it; I
was required to see Elliot Fisk on the same
night. I really regret not getting to see
Yamashita perform. Anyway, I am getting side
tracked.
I don't pretend to like what little I have heard
of Yamashita. But I think to put it down, would
first require one to fully understand it. I
certainly don't fully understand it. I don't want
to produce those kinds of tones and string buzzes
in my playing, but then again, I am not playing
the kinds of things he has played. I am, however,
completely intrigued with Yamashita as a
technician, even knowing little about him. After
today, I am also very curious of his skills as an
interpreter.
You know, just today, I was listening to
Yamashita's rendition of the Eminor lute suite of
Bach. Once again, not my cup of tea. I think I
even heard him botch a few notes (not talking
about his "sound") in the prelude. That is
different and truly does bother me. As good as he
is in some ways, could he be doing this on
purpose!? (If memory serves me well, I have heard
the same thing in his Castelnuovo-Tedesco
Caprichos of Goya renditions, but I am getting
side tracked again.) Anyway, after listening to
this lute suite for a while, it occurred to me
that I have heard a harpsichord have this same
type of sound (except for the missed notes.)
I would love to have Yamashita's technical skills,
even from what little I have heard. Sure, I think
I would use them in a different way, but then
again: who asked me!?
To say that Yamashita can't play is going to far,
IMHO. In some ways, he must be able to play
better than almost all of us. Now, is (at least
some of) his recordings filled with minor errors
that he refuses to fix, doesn't care about, or any
and all of the above? I don't know. I DO suspect
that. It is weird in my feeble mind, and I'll
give you that Kent. But as far as his choice of
tone, and his amazing skills shown in so many
ways, I can't agree.
Sure, I'd sleep better if I had the question
answered "what's with the minor errors" but then
maybe, it is another misunderstanding on my part.
Perhaps he always records live and understands
that minor errors can't always be avoided, so he
ignores them. I simply don't know.
The bottom line is this: one of my weaknesses has
been knocking things that I don't understand.
People here know that. As a result, I even stir
up trouble when I don't do anything wrong via
misunderstandings. I need to improve in this
area. I don't understand why he misses notes
sometimes in recordings. But I don't think that
is enough to say the man can't play. But I think
I do understand a little better why he gets "that
tone" sometimes. Yamashita might not represent
what is art to me (then again, who knows?), but he
certainly has my attention and my eagerness to
understand him better.
Stephen G. Carl
Jeff Gower <jgo...@gator.net> wrote in message
news:jgower-3001...@pp017.gator.net...
Matanya Ophee
Glad you liked it. These old writings do keep well, methinks. Now
let's see what you think of the next installement, now on line at the
same place.
Hesham Khalil
I more than agree. Deepest thanks to MO.
Hesham
Evan Pyle
--
Evan Pyle
Matanya Ophee <m.o...@orphee.com> wrote in message
news:mmef7t82a842iksug...@4ax.com...
Richard Yates
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/Piitsburg.htm
Richard Yates
"Evan Pyle" <enp...@home.com> wrote in message
news:RsTd6.138917$ge4.50...@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com...
Matanya Ophee
>Mantanya, the link to the Pittsburgh concert review is not working,,,
Thanks, Evan. Fixed now.
Hesham Khalil
>
> "Hesham Khalil" <kha...@intellektik.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote > >
> > I more than agree. Deepest thanks to MO.
>
>
I just wanted to say, I fully agree. You are right in that agreement
does not admit comparative or superlative terms. An unfortunate
"creation", probably caused by my enthusiasm for the article (I am not a
native English speaker).
Thank you for your hint.
Hesham
Klaus Heim
"Dawn and Todd Tipton" <dawntod...@uswest.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3A774D8E...@uswest.net...
>
> Sure, I'd sleep better if I had the question
> answered "what's with the minor errors" but then
> maybe, it is another misunderstanding on my part.
> Perhaps he always records live and understands
> that minor errors can't always be avoided, so he
> ignores them. I simply don't know.
If a guitarist of Yamashita's capabilities has "minor errors" on his
recordings and guitarists of more meagre capabilities don't, should this not
tell us something?
Klaus
John Wasak
news:glXd6.79742$OD6.7...@news1.telusplanet.net...
> "Hesham Khalil" <kha...@intellektik.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote in
> > I more than agree. Deepest thanks to MO.
>
>
>
Interesting that you bring this up, John. Few are aware of this but there
is a specific term for "more than agree", but the actual term itself differs
depending upon who uses it. For example:
Instead of saying "I more than agree", clothing and apparel merchants often
say:
"I extra-agree" (XA)
or
"I extra-extra-agree" (XXA)
Advanced mathematicians say: "I agree5" (Agree to the fifth power)
Less advanced mathematicians just say: "I +agree" (I plus agree)
Astronomers usually agree on "I eclipse agree"
Mystics like: "I transcend agree"
Four Star Generals use: "I outrank agree"
Donald Trump has a fondness for "I trump agree"
Boston Brahmans and Society Ladies choose: "I better agree"
Type A personalities give a nod to both: "I top agree" and "I outdo agree"
The jaded and blase find a certain cleverness in: "I pass agree"
Now, certainly, there are more terms for "more than agree" but I'm sure that
most will "exceedingly agree" with me that we really don't need to list them
all.
JW
Bob Ashley
> John Sloan wrote:
> > What's that mean, when you "more than agree?" Is there a term for that?
Hesham wrote:
> I just wanted to say, I fully agree. You are right in that agreement
> does not admit comparative or superlative terms. An unfortunate
> "creation", probably caused by my enthusiasm for the article (I am not a
> native English speaker).
>
> Thank you for your hint.
"More than agree" is just fine for colloquial conversation in English.
This expression merely follows the template of another which is quite
common in many English dialects, i.e. "We'd be "more than happy" to
accommodate you". Along the same lines, though a different construction,
is, 'to be "exceedingly" grateful/kind/cruel. Another model might be
something like, "He more than merely hit the ball;(he smashed it.)". In
Hesham's case, the comparative element is ellipted: E.g. "I more than
agree; (I fly banners to [applaud] the assertion)".
Yes, there is a name for it too: phrasal intensifier, in adverbial mode.
One could also offer that the whole verb phrase, "more than agree" is an
idiom which borrows on the regular pattern of comparative construction.
Quite effectively, the author imports the gradeability modifying power of
some adjectives, thus making the act of agreeing a gradeable concept. E.g
"He's no more a baker than I am" (bakers aren't usually gradeable).
??? no more a baker??? (Hey, perfectly English!)
"Intensifier", however, appears to be the writer's functional,
communicative impetus, that is, he agrees (most) enthusiastically.
(Whoops, but not, I see (going back the author's message above) that he
uses the word "enthusiasm" himself. Thus, 'intensifier' is the fit term.
Let's not talk about the logic of English; there ain't none! (whoops!
double negative)
******************************
rib
Dawn and Todd Tipton
Klaus Heim wrote:
> If a guitarist of Yamashita's capabilities has "minor errors" on his
> recordings and guitarists of more meagre capabilities don't, should this not
> tell us something?
>
Hello,
It may hint that he doesn't care about the minor
errors. Or it may hint that, although he can play
things that few would ever dream of playing, his
playing is filled with minor errors that he can't
control even in a recording situation. Or it may
hint to him having very limited time in the
studio. I'm just not sure. Why? What are you
getting at? Perhaps my guess that he doesn't
care?
Bob Ashley
> If a guitarist of Yamashita's capabilities has "minor errors" on his
> recordings and guitarists of more meagre capabilities don't, should this not
> tell us something?
Maybe the more meagre guitarists made the mistake of forgetting to include
(or worse, deliberately concealing) their errors. Such would be the
predictable pattern of fools, the pretense of perfection.
Numismatists know coins; they don't polish them. They leave the act of
imparting lustre to the numbskulls.
******************************
rib
joe_so...@my-deja.com
a) i # agree (i sharp agree) or
b) 1 + agree (i augmented agree)
?
joe
In article <BIZd6.1319$0A6.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Larry Deack
> Let's not talk about the logic of English; there ain't none! (whoops!
> double negative)
Sure there is Rib, and you just explained some of the life that is
part of this language... it changes with usage and nobody can say what
is 'proper' English. I like phrases like "very unique" and "a myriad
of" that so many of us use. We are doing the same rule generalization
process you just described and it works fine. How about "to boldly go"
and those great double negatives you spoke of. I read somewhere that
some linguists think that double negatives are the norm for human
language, sighting many other languages that use it and the tendency
for people to use them even in English when they know it is not what
they are _supposed_ to do simply because is feels right to use this
structure. Those same linguists tend to think that the good feelings we
get by using these languages structures is because they are prewired in
our brains.
Music and language have similar dynamics when it comes to the _rules_.
I believe it is only possible to break the rules and retain respect of
the standard bearers in a group if one is very good about learning the
rules first. Writers like yourself are most often very well versed in
the standard rules but some who do not work hard to learn the rules of
English can still create great structures. One does not need to belong
to the in group to be able to add something of substance to the subject
and as we have seen so many times it is often someone who shuns the
formal rule structures of a group who ultimately contributes the most.
Creative people who are not part of a group's power structure will
always be attacked if they try to introduce new ideas. In Robert
Persig's book Lila he describes the reaction of the standard bearers as
one of a social immune system that will attack any foreign body and
slow the change reaction so the body of the group does not become
overwhelmed. Good book with many more interesting ideas but this one
helped me understand why some people react so poorly to change and how
they see their role in the group as protectors who are being attacked.
Unfortunately like our body's immune system it's not always healthy to
attack everything new all the time and very difficult to apply
selectively. Persig does say more on the idea of looking at how groups
of people organize and act a lot like a single entity rather than
individuals.
John Wasak
> so, would musicians say,
>
> a) i # agree (i sharp agree) or
>
> b) 1 + agree (i augmented agree)
>
> ?
>
> joe
>
Yes, some musicians do say that, Joe. However, many sophisticated musicians
often use a more harmonically advanced language, something along the lines
of: "I agree#5" or "I agree#9#11/13". You'll notice that at this point, a
subtle shift takes place in where exactly the intensifier is placed in the
sentence. This style situates itself somewhat more closely in line with the
often heard colloquialism, "I agree totally", yet, unlike "I agree totally",
"I agree#9#11/13" doesn't neglect to inform the reader or listener that the
agreement does in fact surpass mere agreement.
I should also mention that many visual artists and painters also have a
colorful approach to this sort of thing. One painter might say, "I red
agree" while the next might more narrowly define the agreement with a
reference to a more descriptive and exacting shade of red. The second
painter, for example, could then say, "I alizarin crimson agree".
JW
Larry Deack
> so, would musicians say,
>
> a) i # agree (i sharp agree) or
>
> b) 1 + agree (i augmented agree)
>
> ?
CGist around these here parts say,
c) I don't agree.
d) I won't agree.
e) I couldn't agree less.
f) I freakin' can't agree with that freakin' nonesense!
g) You feakin' jerk you never &*%+#%%^ ever agree with %^$%%^+ anybody
here, get a &^$##^&*&&^#@% life...!!!!!!
... sorry, i got carried away.
Matanya Ophee
Dawn and Todd Tipton <dawntod...@uswest.net> wrote:
>
>
> Klaus Heim wrote:
>
> > If a guitarist of Yamashita's capabilities has "minor errors" on his
> > recordings and guitarists of more meagre capabilities don't, should
this not
> > tell us something?
> >
>
> Hello,
>
> It may hint that he doesn't care about the minor
> errors. Or it may hint that, although he can play
> things that few would ever dream of playing, his
> playing is filled with minor errors that he can't
> control even in a recording situation. Or it may
> hint to him having very limited time in the
> studio. I'm just not sure. Why? What are you
> getting at?
I can't speak for Klaus, but it seems to me that unless you can specify
what are those minor errors you observed, page, par number, note etc,
they may exist only in your imagination. What are YOU talking about?
wrong notes? string noise? memory slips? incorrect phrasing?
You are talking about a guy who I personally observed, in my living
room, sight reading the _orchestral_ score to the overture of Glinka's
Ruslan i Ludmilla, 40 lines of score, playing it on the guitar,
directly, at the correct key, including all the voices, the full
harmony, all the dynamics at the correct tempo, without making one
single mistake, without skipping a beat. And my wife who was teaching
that particular work in her class at the time, assured me that indeed
his reading was perfect. And then he read through some of the most
difficult music in the repertoire, for example Wolfgang Lendle's
Paganini Variations, a piece he had never seen before in his life,all
the way through with a single mistake. So you tell me that a guy like
would commit to a recording anything less than perfect?
What minor errors? where exactly?
Matanya Ophee Mailto:m.o...@orphee.com
Editions Orphée, Inc. http://www.orphee.com
1240 Clubview Blvd. N. phone: 614-846-9517
Columbus, OH 43235-1226 Fax: 614-846-9794
Klaus Heim
"Bob Ashley" <ax...@chebucto.ns.ca> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:Pine.GSO.3.95.iB1.0.101...@halifax.chebucto.ns.ca.
..
Perceptive, or as Richard II puts it: "Thoughts tending to ambition, they do
plot unlikely wonders."
Klaus
Klaus Heim
"Matanya Ophee" <m.o...@orphee.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:95a6ig$9sp$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> You are talking about a guy who I personally observed, in my living
> room, sight reading the _orchestral_ score to the overture of Glinka's
> Ruslan i Ludmilla, 40 lines of score, playing it on the guitar,
> directly, at the correct key, including all the voices, the full
> harmony, all the dynamics at the correct tempo, without making one
> single mistake, without skipping a beat. And my wife who was teaching
> that particular work in her class at the time, assured me that indeed
> his reading was perfect. And then he read through some of the most
> difficult music in the repertoire, for example Wolfgang Lendle's
> Paganini Variations, a piece he had never seen before in his life,all
> the way through with a single mistake. So you tell me that a guy like
> would commit to a recording anything less than perfect?
I suspect your stories of his musicality will be of little interest to his
detractors. As long as they can hear his fingernails, or a string buzz, or
left hand squeaking, he will never be a good guitarist in their ears. The
question of his musicianship, as we have seen in this thread and multiple
times before, is hardly discussed. Trying to give musical examples in
guitaristic circles may not be the best idea. And sadly the name Lendle will
impress no one. To me, remembering this story from the last time, it only
builds my respect for him. Twice in this thread I mentioned Yamashita's
Manen Sonata, always hoping someone would have a comment on it. Before
hearing him play it, I could not really make anything of this piece. All
these things seem to have no place in a Yamashita thread. That's just how
things are.
Does anybody listen when I speak, or will I have to say it all again next
week?
Klaus
P.S. Who is Naoko Yamashita? I have them playing together on the Mozart
Opera Arrangements.
P.P.S. Is there something like a Japanese school of guitar? I think probably
not. It seems that the Japanese guitarists I know (Yamashita, Fukuda,
Kamata) are all technically brilliant, and as in the case of the first two
(Kamata I cannot yet judge), also musically very independent.
Alison Causton
wrote on 1/31/01 6:19 PM:
> You are talking about a guy who I personally observed, in my living
> room, sight reading the _orchestral_ score to the overture of Glinka's
> Ruslan i Ludmilla, 40 lines of score, playing it on the guitar,
> directly, at the correct key, including all the voices, the full
> harmony, all the dynamics at the correct tempo, without making one
> single mistake, without skipping a beat. ...
This is a _fast_ piece, and I don't just mean tempo. Makes your head spin,
just listening to it. How the h*** did he keep up?? (more of a rhetorical
question, that)
How well did it translate to guitar?
ac
John W. Blossick
>From: Bob Ashley ax...@chebucto.ns.ca
>Date: 1/31/01 12:02 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: wrote:
>Numismatists know coins; they don't polish them. They leave the act of
>imparting lustre to the numbskulls.
LOL...! That is funny!!...LOL! ..You're not calling calling us
numbskulls...?? Are you...??.. LOL..
Regards,
JohnB
Bob Ashley
-snip-
> process you just described and it works fine. How about "to boldly go"
> and those great double negatives you spoke of. I read somewhere that
> some linguists think that double negatives are the norm for human
> language, sighting many other languages that use it and the tendency
> for people to use them even in English when they know it is not what
> they are _supposed_ to do simply because is feels right to use this
> structure.
It is true that many languages make use of what we call the 'double
negative'. Verily, this phenomenon is a historical feature of our own
language, the double-negative hanging around throughout the whole period
of Old English and part of that of the Middle English period. The OE
negative preceded the verb, as in 'ne was' (was not) and could be
reinforced by other negatives like 'naefre' (never):
"ond hie naefre his banan folgian noldon" (and they never his murderer
follow ne-would)
Here's a triple:
"Be wel auysed...that 'noon' of us 'ne' speke 'noght' a word."
Actually, the double-negative in English has never really come close to
expiring. Prescriptivists have attempted recurrently to legislate it out
of existence by beating it out of grammar school pupils but not a one of
them ain't never succeeded. It's as futile as beating the parrot for not
fetching one's slippers.
******************************
rib
Matanya Ophee
That was only one item he read through during a visit that lasted some
two weeks, doing this something like 10-12 hours a day. At the end of
the visit I drove him to Cincinatti where he played a concert at
Xavier University. Not once during the two weeks he stayed in my
house, did he play any of the pieces in his concert program. I did ask
him when he is going to practice for his concert. His response was
that he was practicing all the time...
>
>How well did it translate to guitar?
That I cannot tell you, because it was not put to paper, and it was
not recorded. Surely, there is no way I could have repeated the feat
myself, but the music sounded, guitar or no guitar, like the overture
to Ruslan i Ludmila. That was good enough for me.
Matanya Ophee
"Klaus Heim" <klh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I suspect your stories of his musicality will be of little interest to
his
> detractors.
I suspect you are right. I would still like to know from Mr. Todd Tipton
what "minor errors" he is talking about. it is not a very smart thing
for a young fellow, still at school, with one of the the finest teachers
I know, to pass false judgements like this on a colleague. Speak up,
Todd, I can't hear you all that well...
> And sadly the name Lendle will
> impress no one.
That situation, will change soon.
> Twice in this thread I mentioned Yamashita's
> Manen Sonata, always hoping someone would have a comment on it. Before
> hearing him play it, I could not really make anything of this piece.
Manen who? is this the guy who won the GFA competition in 1969? a
protege of Andy York perhaps? And besides, is this a guy or a chick
(with a first name like Joan....)?
Now let see a show of hands (regular posters at least): who ever heard
of this Joan Manen? does anyone knows who he was, is, will be?
You see my point?
> P.S. Who is Naoko Yamashita? I have them playing together on the
Mozart
> Opera Arrangements.
His sister. They used to play a lot together, but then she took off on
her own concert career, mainly in South East Asia. Haven't heard much
about her lately.
> P.P.S. Is there something like a Japanese school of guitar? I think
probably
> not. It seems that the Japanese guitarists I know (Yamashita, Fukuda,
> Kamata) are all technically brilliant, and as in the case of the first
two
> (Kamata I cannot yet judge), also musically very independent.
Fukuda, and I have had the honor of writing the liner notes to his
Schubertiade CD, is mor a product of the French school of
playing--Lagoya, Alberto Ponce etc. Kamata, I do not know. There was one
fellow named Iwao Suzuki who is still around (participated in the 1957
festival in Moscow). Then there was Jiro Matsuda who was a student of
John Williams and then went back to Japan and changed his name. Yasumasa
Obara, Jiro Hamada, Jiro Nakano (who died recently) are some of the
names. There is an excellent article by Robert Coldwell on the subject
of the guitar in Japan in the 1930 in GALI.
As George Warren said, Yamashita is not part of any of that. Sui
Generis.
--
Dawn and Todd Tipton
Matanya Ophee wrote:
>
>
> I can't speak for Klaus, but it seems to me that unless you can specify
> what are those minor errors you observed, page, par number, note etc,
> they may exist only in your imagination. What are YOU talking about?
> wrong notes? string noise? memory slips? incorrect phrasing?
>
... So you tell me that a guy like
> would commit to a recording anything less than perfect?
>
> What minor errors? where exactly?
>
Hello MO and all,
This is a very fair request. Give me a day or two
and I will see what I can come up with. Even with
what little I know of Yamashita, you make explicit
my implied point: How could a guy like this
commit to a recording anything less than perfect?
I also want to make the record clear to any
Yamashita bashers. Based on what little I know of
him through a mere handful of recordings, and
scores, not counting what I have learned here in
the past few days, I am perfectly convinced that
the guy can play; he obviously has a talent that
goes far beyond what most people could ever have.
To say that Yamashita can't play is not an
accurate observation in my opinion. It is my
opinion, if I may be so trite, that I would be
completely blown away if I ever heard him perform.
My problems with Yamashita are only a personal one
due to my failure to comprehend his choices of "an
over playing harshness" for lack of a better
phrase, and his "minor errors" that could be a
figment of my imagination, just that harsh
playing, combination of things, or something else
perhaps. All I can say, from my feeble
perspective, is that I don't understand why he
wants to play the way he does. I am trying my
d@#5est to have an open mind (a place I fail
sometimes.)
People on this list have already suggested to me
that his "harsh tone" is yet another expressive
device that he uses, and uses well. Perhaps a
paradigm shift will occur to enable me to better
understand Yamashita. Perhaps, as someone
suggested, (highly paraphrasing) that I am too
"hung up" on "that sound" and am deaf to the music
that he is making.
I will look for specific minor errors in
recordings. At worst, I will find some, and all
we will have is a guy that, in my opinion, could
have easily fixed them but chose not to. So then
one may wonder why he did it. Perhaps there would
be something to learn there. At best, they may be
a figment of my imagination, only the INTENDED
harsh tones, and fewer than my memory would have
me to believe.
Nevertheless, I will do this because I opened
myself up for this and it is fair to ask for
specifics. Whatever the case, I KNOW that
Yamashita can play and I would drive for several
hours to hear him play. If I had to guess, and
was fortunate enough to meet Yamashita, I believe
he would demonstrate things that I didn't even
think possible. The "Pictures" arrangement still
boggles my mind.
Not a Yamashita Basher,
Just slow to understand,
Todd Tipton,
Minneapolis, Mn.
Dawn and Todd Tipton
Matanya Ophee wrote:
>
At the end of
> the visit I drove him to Cincinatti where he played a concert at
> Xavier University. >
And that would be the recital I missed because I
was required to Elliot Fisk in Lexington, Kentucky
on the same night!
Dawn and Todd Tipton
Matanya Ophee wrote:
it is not a very smart thing
> for a young fellow, still at school, with one of the the finest teachers
> I know, to pass false judgements like this on a colleague. Speak up,
> Todd, I can't hear you all that well...
>
At least I am not yelling "he can't play!"
Bob Ashley
rib wrote:
> >Numismatists know coins; they don't polish them. They leave the act of
> >imparting lustre to the numbskulls.
John Blossick wrote:
> LOL...! That is funny!!...LOL! ..You're not calling calling us
> numbskulls...?? Are you...??.. LOL..
No, not at all. I just find the niggling criticisms of performers
wearisome and petty. They seem to have no prevailing purpose in furthering
our art, but rather only to parade the critic's own plentitude.
And it's just that the performance/recording musician drive towards
perfection happens to coincide with my local definition of madness. Akin
to the madness of drug doping of Olympic athletes seeking perfection's
gold summit. Even Zeus is perplexed: "Have not mortals learned a thing?"
'Fixes-in-the-mix" are the steroids of the recording industry. What we
fetishize is a 'simulation' of perfection, a mere surface. It's why I'd
rather listen to a 12 year-old kid play the guitar than a perfect
simulation of perfection, the pretense of perfect performance.
Obsession for the mortally unattainable was the seed of Shakespeare's
tragedies. All his protagonists of this ilk are leaders, kings, generals,
and they must die for their madness becomes a menace to their society.
The ultimate apotheosis of a perfecting person is to become a god of
pumpkins.
Hence, if it is true that Yamashita has left a couple of minor errors on a
recording, a banner should be raised, not stones thrown.
******************************
rib
John Wasak
> Manen who? is this the guy who won the GFA competition in 1969? a
> protege of Andy York perhaps? And besides, is this a guy or a chick
> (with a first name like Joan....)?
>
> Now let see a show of hands (regular posters at least): who ever heard
> of this Joan Manen? does anyone knows who he was, is, will be?
>
A Spanish (Catalan) violinist and composer. born 1883- died 1971 The
Fantasia-Sonata Op. A-22 written in 1928 for Andres Segovia. I think there
was an old Segovia Decca recording that had music by Manen on it, along with
Espla, Scarlatti, etc.
JW
Matanya Ophee
>
>
>Matanya Ophee wrote:
>>
> At the end of
>> the visit I drove him to Cincinatti where he played a concert at
>> Xavier University. >
>
>And that would be the recital I missed because I
>was required to Elliot Fisk in Lexington, Kentucky
>on the same night!
I remember that! Actually, Eliot was supposed to come and visit also
at the same time, but it did not work out for some reason. Now that
dates you a bit. This concert was in 1994 or at the latest in 1995. We
moved to the new house a short time later.
I am waiting for the list of minor errors.
John W. Blossick
>From: Bob Ashley ax...@chebucto.ns.ca
>Date: 1/31/01 7:34 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: wrote:
>No, not at all. I just find the niggling criticisms of performers
>wearisome and petty.
Ditto...
>And it's just that the performance/recording musician drive towards
>perfection happens to coincide with my local definition of madness.
Ever moving toward a type of neurosis...Rearing its mutated head near the end
of a piece well played, softly beckoning, "Woo, I really nailed this
one"...Only to have the last 2 bars careen like a bad slice through the
clubhouse window.
> It's why I'd
>rather listen to a 12 year-old kid play the guitar than a perfect
>simulation of perfection, the pretense of
>perfect performance.
You know why.? Thery're having fun..
>Hence, if it is true that Yamashita has left a couple of minor errors on a
>recording, a banner should be raised, not stones thrown.
"I'll go for things that I know are going to be wrong, with a vengeance"...Neil
Young..
Yamashita is pushing the envelope..Raise the banner..
Regards,
JohnB
Larry Deack
> Does anybody listen when I speak,or will I have to say it all again
next week?
No mother.. uh yes mother.. uh I mean no, we will try to be good,
honest. Please don't beat us again.
dave payne
"modern" pieces of music for guitar that I heard, on an old Segovia recording
which I listened to probably a thousand times. I've just listened again to the
two cds that I currently have which contain it (Segovia, Yamashita), and now
I've taken the old U$4.25 GA score down off the shelf to play with again. The
thing I always remember most about this piece is the announcement at the end of
the introduction, with the D A E notes, that the music is about to begin, and
then the smooth "lick" with its great Segovia fingerings that is the beginning
(This opening scale passage and the 2 bars that follow it contain most of the
pieces that make up the entire 10 page sonata). The thing I most noticed as I
listened this time around is that there are an awful lot of D notes sprinkled
throughout the piece. At one point (3rd page of the score) there is even a
traditional guitar D chord with a short open D pedal. I find it interesting that
despite this, and despite the fact that there is also a preponderance of open A
and open E notes throughout, the sonata never sounds like a traditional guitar
piece.
As far as the performers go, I definitely like the Segovia more. Although it
drags a bit (19:47 compared to Yamashita's 16:34) his version is more refined
and contains all the nuances of a Segovia interpretation, as applied to probably
the most "out there" piece he ever recorded. Yamashita's version on the other
hand is more energetic and more dramatic (not surprising considering that he was
~20 years old when he recorded it in 1981, whereas Segovia was ~64 when he
recorded his version in 1957), but still contains a multitude of tone colors and
dynamic levels. His loud is louder and his fast is faster, allowing for that
extra bit of contrast in his playing. While his Manen at 20 is not quite up to
Segovia's Manen at 64 it is still very, very good. The same can be said of the
Mompou, which is on the same two cds. His Rodrigo Invocation and Dance is also
very well done. Besides his cd "Music of Spain" I have at least 12 other
Yamashita cds. I also have all of the Naxos laureate series, and I think that
the 20 year old's playing on "Music of Spain" is more than a match for any of
the playing on any of the laureates. Considering the other 12 cds as well I
would have to say that Yamashitasan is one of the best guitarists I have ever
heard (Of course, I still think that Lemmy Kilmister is a great vocalist, so
feel free to disagree - just don't come across with the opinion-as-fact
bullshit). He is not a person of little or no musicality, but rather a person
who is literally bursting with musicality. He could not play what he does
otherwise.
By the way, there is a VHS tape version of the 1991 cd Kazuhito Yamashita Plays
his Favorites listed on www.hmv.co.jp, at the hefty price of ~Y6100 (about
U$60).
Dave Payne,
the...@interlog.com
Klaus Heim wrote:
...
> Twice in this thread I mentioned Yamashita's
> Manen Sonata, always hoping someone would have a comment on it. Before
> hearing him play it, I could not really make anything of this piece. All
> these things seem to have no place in a Yamashita thread. That's just how
> things are.
>
> Does anybody listen when I speak, or will I have to say it all again next
> week?
>
> Klaus
...
Hajo Dezelski
>"Steven Smith" <word...@fluxbuggers.freeserve.co.uk> schrieb im
>Newsbeitrag news:94svco$60b$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> Thanks for that. What a shame he doesn't teach.
>
>For over 10 years I have been learning from him.
I am getting nervous. All these discussions about Yamashita and I never heard
him. I was looking up and down music-stores and the internet but couldnt find
the CDs and the score mentioned eg. Pictures of ...
Are they still available and where?
Hajo
PS: Klaus, I still read with great interest all of your postings and after a
second look some of the Gilardino studies are coming to my focus again.
PSS: I also received the polymetric and polyrhythmic studies of Bogdanovic, but
I need some time to comment them.
Richard Yates
> It is true that many languages make use of what we call the 'double
> negative'.
More remarkable to me than the double negative is an expression that came
about through dropping a word that, logically, exactly reverses the meaning
but which is used in both forms to say the same thing.
People used to say "I couldn't care less" meaning that they care very
little, that there is no amount of caring less than that which they have.
Now they often say "I could care less" and apparently mean the same thing.
Which do Canadians use?
Richard Yates
Bob Ashley
<yate...@teleport.com> wrote:
> More remarkable to me than the double negative is an expression that came
> about through dropping a word that, logically, exactly reverses the meaning
> but which is used in both forms to say the same thing.
>
> People used to say "I couldn't care less" meaning that they care very
> little, that there is no amount of caring less than that which they have.
>
> Now they often say "I could care less" and apparently mean the same thing.
> Which do Canadians use?
My angst with this "could/couldn't care less" parallels yours. Canadians go
with the "could care less", but even if that tide of 17 Canadian people
going that way, I use "couldn't care less".
I think it's probably a very old expression, probably dating back to those
days in the period between Old and Middle English when we were still trying
to figure out how to use modal auxilliaries like 'would', 'could', 'must',
'can' and so forth.
An old example, using a nearly defunct modal 'dare' is the functional
equivalency of "I daren't say that..." and "I dare say that...", meaning
that the report to follow WILL be said in either case.
An alternate explanation could be that the expression is 'clipped', a
remnant of something fuller, perhaps to express one's own charity towards
something which COULD be CARED LESS about. It may have couched a semantic
threat, or telegraphed a tension between caring and not caring. Thus, the
subtext for "I could care less" might be "I care very little, but even this
paltry measure of care is apt to diminish even further."
Being a rather clever expression, I suspect its creator may have been
dabbling in classic British irony and feigned charity. Now, of course, there
is no gradeability attached to the expression; it's absolute, meaning I
don't care at all.
Another wonky hold-out is the spotted use of the OE subjunctive, e.g. 'Be
that (that be???)as it may" or "If needs be" (not needs 'are') or "if I were
(plural?? not 'was') a carpenter".
My personal all-time, pet-peeve crochet is the use of the word "absolutely"
to mean "yes".
"Do you think the Mets are better than the Yankees?"
"Oh, absolutely."
"Do you have related work experience"
"Oh, absolutely"
"More salad?"
"Oh, absolutely"
Substituting 'yes' in the above response, contextualized in this day of
hyperbolic grandstanding even in quotidian conversation, seems, well, almost
dignified and restrained.
My theory as to why this has happened is that the grandstanding
exaggerations of corporate advertising have set up their structures in the
public's collective mind, unimpeded. So now, strangely enough, the word
'absolutely' is semantically equivalent to 'yes'.
--
rib
Matanya Ophee
> it is not a very smart thing
> > for a young fellow, still at school, with one of the the finest
teachers
> > I know, to pass false judgements like this on a colleague. Speak up,
> > Todd, I can't hear you all that well...
> >
>
> At least I am not yelling "he can't play!"
Yes, I know, you are not Kent Murdick. But that still does not get you
off the hook. Youa ccused one of the major artists of our time of
releasing recordings with minor errors in them. So you either specify
what errors you are talking about, or retract the statement.
Matanya Ophee
"Bob Ashley" <ax...@chebucto.ns.ca> wrote:
>
> My personal all-time, pet-peeve crochet is the use of the word
"absolutely"
> to mean "yes".
And _my_ all time personal pet peeve is that one silly question by John
Sloan turned this thread into a discussion of linguistics. I just
changed the subject line, becuase this has nothing to do with Yamashita
anymore. My other (linguistic) pet peeve is the word "momentarily".
I always thought it meant "for the duration of a short moment'. People
now use it instead of the word 'shortly."
Scared the leaving (no misprint here!) daylight out of me, when I heard
this captain announce to the passengers that "we will be taking off
momentarily." In my naive understanding of the language, I thought he
meant that "we will be taking off for the duration of a short moment"
which implied that once this moment was over, we will not be taking off
any more.
The other pet peeve is television announcers closing their program by
saying "we shall be seeing you tomorrow."
Like hell they would! Not until Big Brother installs a camera on my TV.
The French are much more sensible. They close their broadcasts by
thanking the _viewers_ for having watched.
--
Matanya Ophee Mailto:m.o...@orphee.com
Editions Orphée, Inc. http://www.orphee.com
1240 Clubview Blvd. N. phone: 614-846-9517
Columbus, OH 43235-1226 Fax: 614-846-9794
joe_so...@my-deja.com
disagreemaj9.
In article <kD0e6.151$dX.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
Dawn and Todd Tipton
Richard Yates wrote:
>
> People used to say "I couldn't care less" meaning that they care very
> little, that there is no amount of caring less than that which they have.
>
Hello all,
My wife had an amusing experience after first
moving to Minnesota in her new career. One of her
employees had asked a very small favor of Dawn.
Dawn was glad to help the employee and said, "I
don't care to do that." Misunderstanding, the
employee looked surprised and was very quiet from
that moment on.
Dawn noticed that the employee was upset and
asked, "what's wrong?"
The employee replied, "don't worry, I'll find
someone else to do it."
"But I said that I don't care to do that!" Dawn
emphasized.
The employee remarked, "I know! And I will find
someone else!"
Soon after, the situation was resolved and the
employee finally understood that Dawn would have
been glad to help her.
best,
Todd Tipton,
Minneapolis, Mn.
BTW: Mo, if you are reading this-- Give me a day.
I have done a little listening in my little spare
time before retiring for the night, last night. I
have found "widgets" (that I suspect to be minor
errors) in a recording of Castelnuovo-Tedesco's
"24 Caprichos de Goya." I will be able to, very
soon, offer exact track numbers and the exact
timings with in those track numbers. If I had
more time to obtain a score, I could give
measures, and beats. Anyway, it should still
serve as an accurate reference point so that one
can easily find what I am hearing. I believe I
also heard a few "widgets" in his rendition of BWV
997. I will not only be able to give tracks and
times, but measures and beats as well being as I
do have scores for that. I might also add that
these 2 cd's are the first 2 I picked up. Even
when I find these, this doesn't give the right,
IMHO, for someone to accuse him of not being able
to play. Nor will it offer any evidence as to
Yamashita's ability to "fix" these sections. But
what it will do, is offer specific examples of
excerpts of his playing where he chose not to
worry about it. And I don't know the answer to
the question, "why did he do that?"
Sam Culotta
I have many peeves, all personal, so to declare one of them my "pet" would
diminish the rest.
I am particularly piqued by the recent trend among public speakers and media
personalities to use "simplistic" when they mean simple or uncomplicated.
The first time I heard this was by the CEO of our bank on an information
video broadcast to all employees. From that day on the term spread like a
vile virus and many an up-and -comer was soon spouting the inanity with an
obvious sense of pride. Of course, their misuse of the word contained its
own exquisite irony.
Sam
"Matanya Ophee" <m.o...@orphee.com> wrote in message
news:95c6ca$v8d$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
RandPinc
won't have the strength to bother you.
Dawn and Todd Tipton
Matanya Ophee wrote:
>
> Yes, I know, you are not Kent Murdick. But that still does not get you
> off the hook. Youa ccused one of the major artists of our time of
> releasing recordings with minor errors in them. So you either specify
> what errors you are talking about, or retract the statement.
>
Hello Mo and all,
Not exactly. I said that I THOUGHT I heard what
were minor errors and that it could be a
misunderstanding on my part. Slight difference.
Anyway, as requested:
Mario Castelnuovo-Tedesco
"24 Caprichos de Goya" for guitar, Op.195
Kazuhito Yamashita, Guitar
Crown Classics CRCC-8006
1993
recorded in 1989
Track one (Francisco Goya y Lucientes, Painter):
0:33
0:56
1:21
2:01
2:09
2:17
2:27
2:38
Track Two (Two of a Kind):
0:38
0:53
1:05
1:18
1:38
1:50
1:52
2:20
2:49
Track Three (Nobody Knows Himself):
0:26
0:37
0:37 (YES)
0:46
0:48
1:03
1:04
1:19
Track Four (Even Thus He Cannot Make Her Out):
0:32
0:34
0:51
1:11
1:17
1:51
Track Five (Lads Making Ready):
0:54
0:58
1:04
1:38
1:43
1:54
2:11
Track Six (Love and Death):
0:53
1:09
1:31
2:40
More only upon request.
Klaus Heim
"Larry Deack" <lar...@zeno.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:95ar95$r2c$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Klaus Heim wrote:
> > Does anybody listen when I speak,or will I have to say it all again
> next week?
>
> No mother.. uh yes mother.. uh I mean no, we will try to be good,
> honest. Please don't beat us again.
Speaking in a global "I", I (that's me) was only pointing to the fact that
we (that's us) will be repeating exactly the same discussion in the near
future. Until then we will be well entertained by Asturias-, Sunburst-,
Romance-, String Squeak-, and "Does anybody know my guitar?"-threads.
Klaus
Klaus Heim
"Matanya Ophee" <m.o...@orphee.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:95ajl6$kvs$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> > And sadly the name Lendle will
> > impress no one.
>
> That situation, will change soon.
I sure hope so.
> > P.P.S. Is there something like a Japanese school of guitar? I think
> probably
> > not. It seems that the Japanese guitarists I know (Yamashita, Fukuda,
> > Kamata) are all technically brilliant, and as in the case of the first
> two
> > (Kamata I cannot yet judge), also musically very independent.
>
> Fukuda, and I have had the honor of writing the liner notes to his
> Schubertiade CD, is mor a product of the French school of
> playing--Lagoya, Alberto Ponce etc. Kamata, I do not know. There was one
> fellow named Iwao Suzuki who is still around (participated in the 1957
> festival in Moscow). Then there was Jiro Matsuda who was a student of
> John Williams and then went back to Japan and changed his name. Yasumasa
> Obara, Jiro Hamada, Jiro Nakano (who died recently) are some of the
> names. There is an excellent article by Robert Coldwell on the subject
> of the guitar in Japan in the 1930 in GALI.
I was thinking that I may have the impression, that Japanese guitarists are
so good, becuase only the better ones are able to make a name for themselves
abroad. If I am correct Fukuda studied in France, but I don't know how his
career then moved on. Sadly, he also has some interesting recordings, which
seem to be only available in Japan. Reactivating my record player and
digging up my old records, I find one by Masayuki H. Kato. Jiro Hamada I
know only as an editor/transcriber.
Klaus
Klaus Heim
"dave payne" <the...@interlog.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3A7911F7...@interlog.com...
Now this is exactly what I hoped for. Judgement based on facts. I must get
the Segovia recording, which I was not aware of . Do you know if there are
any other recordings? Also, I had not realized, that Yamashita was only 20
when recording this. That makes the music shine in another light. Still
can't say the Manen is one of my favorite pieces.
The Rodrigo has some great tone colors in it. In the introduction, the
contrast of the fleshy basses with the ponticello trebles. Comparing this to
the Naxos Laureate version - well, one just can't.
And his Recuerdos, with the double tremolo, fleshy basses, staccato basses -
this is an interpretation, a musician with a well thought-out concept, not
just one playing another standard repertoire piece. He makes it his piece.
Or the Muneira from Mompou.
I love these discussions. I go back and listen to the recordings, compare,
collect my thoughts, review my own position, and try to formulate some
interesting ideas (this post has taken well over an hour). This is my way to
judge a musician.
Klaus
P.S. I do have my doubts about Lemmy though.
Matanya Ophee
>
>I was thinking that I may have the impression, that Japanese guitarists are
>so good, becuase only the better ones are able to make a name for themselves
>abroad.
But that is the case also with many other nationalities. Russians,
Polish, Hungarians, Israelis, French and even German. There are quite
a few German guitarists who have not made a name for themselves abroad
and should have, and some that _have_ made a name for themselves, but
one wish they didn't...:-)
> Masayuki H. Kato.
A student of Ricardo Iznaola in Denver. There is another very good
one: Masahiro Ojiri who studied with Neil Anderson in Boston.
Matanya Ophee
>Not exactly. I said that I THOUGHT I heard what
>were minor errors and that it could be a
>misunderstanding on my part. Slight difference.
>Anyway, as requested:
>
>Mario Castelnuovo-Tedesco
>"24 Caprichos de Goya" for guitar, Op.195
>Kazuhito Yamashita, Guitar
>Crown Classics CRCC-8006
>1993
>recorded in 1989
>
>Track one (Francisco Goya y Lucientes, Painter):
>0:33
>0:56
>1:21
>2:01
>2:09
>2:17
>2:27
>2:38
That list is meaningless until you specify, by reference to the
edition, page number, line number, note number, exactly what the
guitarist is doing which is in error.
Matanya Ophee
>
>>Track one (Francisco Goya y Lucientes, Painter):
>>0:33
>>0:56
>>1:21
>>2:01
>>2:09
>>2:17
>>2:27
>>2:38
>
>That list is meaningless until you specify, by reference to the
>edition, page number, line number, note number, exactly what the
>guitarist is doing which is in error.
And while you are at it, you might as well check the recordings of
both Philip Lolli and Lily Afshar of the same work, and see if they
make the same errors in the same places. Anything else, reduces your
observations to the level of a cheap shot. I am sure this is not what
you had in mind.
Dawn and Todd Tipton
Matanya Ophee wrote:
>
> That list is meaningless until you specify, by reference to the
> edition, page number, line number, note number, exactly what the
> guitarist is doing which is in error.
>
I left some things out when there was no way to
tell without looking at the score. This list is
meaningful enough for someone to hear the
specific spots in which I am hearing these
anomalies. In fact, it may be more meaningful
that than trying to guess what the guitarist is
doing specifically to cause the error. This way,
someone could listen for themselves without any
power of suggestion stating the exact error.
By listening to the recording I will take a gamble
that, when I look at the score, I won't find the
composer's requests for weak slurs, buzzing notes,
and string splats in the areas that I have
mentioned.
Such a gamble will also be taken soon by the jury
that will evaluate my MM performance; nor will the
jury need such information to hear what they hear
whether they be right or wrong. Most importantly,
you mention that I study with one of the finest
teachers that you know. I can assure you by my
experience that if I were to repeatedly have those
types of sounds in my playing that I have clearly
marked for others to hear, he would do his best to
help me make them go away.
Now, somehow this has all been turned around. My
intentions are not to provide some scholarly
accurate documentation in an area that I'm not
even sure has accurately been defined in the first
place; perhaps Kate L. Turabian would offer the
correct way to document things such as this? My
intentions were to reasonably offer someone to be
able to listen to specific examples of what I am
talking about. And that is exactly what I have
done.
You said that I was foolish. Perhaps I am.
Perhaps I should have kept my mouth shut like so
many other people who hear what I hear. Looking
at my past posts, I feel I have been reasonable
about this. Please go listen to the recording.
Dawn and Todd Tipton
Matanya Ophee wrote:
>
> And while you are at it, you might as well check the recordings of
> both Philip Lolli and Lily Afshar of the same work, and see if they
> make the same errors in the same places.
>
You give me a good idea for a graduate independant
project. If I ever do such, I'd be glad to share
my work with you.
>Anything else, reduces your
> observations to the level of a cheap shot. I am sure this is not what
> you had in mind.
>
No it isn't and no it isn't.
Larry Deack
> Speaking in a global "I", I (that's me) was
> only pointing to the fact that
> we (that's us) will be repeating exactly the same
> discussion in the near future. Until then we will be
> well entertained by Asturias-, Sunburst-,
> Romance-, String Squeak-, and "Does anybody know my guitar?"-threads.
Beginner threads should always outnumber other threads of more
substance since that reflects the demographic. Or would you prefer that
only advanced players post here? I have been in other groups where it's
me who is the beginner and I sure would resent seeing a post like yours
that seems to imply that I can't ask such questions without getting
criticized by the in crowd.
Matanya Ophee
>
>I left some things out when there was no way to
>tell without looking at the score. This list is
>meaningful enough for someone to hear the
>specific spots in which I am hearing these
>anomalies.
You are assuming that the entire world is blessed with _your_ sense of
hearing and with _your_ understanding of what is or isn't an error.
Well, I have news for you. It just ain't so. Unless you tell us
specifically what it was that bothered you, we have no way of knowing
what it is you are talking about.
> In fact, it may be more meaningful
>that than trying to guess what the guitarist is
>doing specifically to cause the error. This way,
>someone could listen for themselves without any
>power of suggestion stating the exact error.
And suppose they did that, and found out there is no error that can be
discerned?
>By listening to the recording I will take a gamble
>that, when I look at the score, I won't find the
>composer's requests for weak slurs, buzzing notes,
>and string splats in the areas that I have
>mentioned.
Since when buzzing notes, string splats and weak slurs are errors?
>Such a gamble will also be taken soon by the jury
>that will evaluate my MM performance;
Nonsense. Juries like this never gamble. They either like what they
hear, or they don't. No one in the jury is going to count the number
of buzzing notes, string splats and weak slurs _you_ will make in your
performance. They will count, if they know the music at all, the
number of memory slips you had, the number of times you hit the wrong
string and the number of times you pressed the wrong frets. And above
all, if they are musicians, they will try to evaluate if you have any
clue about the style of the music you are trying to interpret, if you
know how to craft the phrasing or if you are a finger mover who has no
clue about musicianship.
Your evaluation of the recording of Kazuhito Yamashita, as you
describe it here, leads me to think that after all those long years of
study, you still haven't a clue what music making is all about. May I
suggest real estate or life insurance?
> nor will the
>jury need such information to hear what they hear
>whether they be right or wrong. Most importantly,
>you mention that I study with one of the finest
>teachers that you know. I can assure you by my
>experience that if I were to repeatedly have those
>types of sounds in my playing that I have clearly
>marked for others to hear, he would do his best to
>help me make them go away.
in other words, you seem to say that you are a much better guitarist
than Kazuhito Yamashita, because your teacher did not tell you that
you make the same errors he does?
Gee, that sounds like really good news. I wish you the best of luck
and I am looking forward to _your_ debut on the concert stage. I'll
let you know, in private or in public, precisely what I think of your
performance. You can count on that.
>Now, somehow this has all been turned around. My
>intentions are not to provide some scholarly
>accurate documentation in an area that I'm not
>even sure has accurately been defined in the first
>place;
Nothing has been turned around. You are trying to sound a moderate
note regarding Yamashita, and while you acknowledge that he can play
the guitar, you accuse him of having made a recording that includes
"minor errors".
That's a very serious charge.
>You said that I was foolish. Perhaps I am.
>Perhaps I should have kept my mouth shut like so
>many other people who hear what I hear.
That's another foolish statement you just made. Who are those people?
anyone we know? and where did they report to you that they heard what
you heard?
I'll tell you what your problem is: you simply do not know how to
listen to yourself. You do not hear what you say, and you do not read
what you have just typed. If this is the way you play the guitar, I
withdraw my suggestion of real estate or life insurance. Run for
congress, you'll make a great politician!
John W. Blossick
>From: Dawn and Todd Tipton dawntod...@uswest.net
>Date: 2/1/01 4:25 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: wrote:
>Such a gamble will also be taken soon by the jury
>that will evaluate my MM performance;
What pieces do you have lined up to play for your MM performance?
Regards,
JohnB
Dawn and Todd Tipton
Matanya Ophee wrote:
>
> You are assuming that the entire world is blessed with _your_ sense of
> hearing and with _your_ understanding of what is or isn't an error.
> ...> Since when buzzing notes, string splats and weak slurs are errors?
>
You are absolutely right. When I used the term
"minor error" I meant buzzes, splats, and weak
slurs. Perhaps there is no disagreement after
all. I heard no minor errors by your definition.
>No one in the jury is going to count the number
> of buzzing notes, string splats and weak slurs _you_ will make in your
> performance.>
Thank God for that good news; I can count on them
being there.
> They will count, if they know the music at all, the
> number of memory slips you had, the number of times you hit the wrong
> string and the number of times you pressed the wrong frets.>
Let us hope none of those things happen.
> Your evaluation of the recording of Kazuhito Yamashita, as you
> describe it here, leads me to think that after all those long years of
> study, you still haven't a clue what music making is all about. >
You may think that because I haven't talked the
slightest about music, being as I have only talked
about the possible buzzes, splats, and weak slurs
I might have heard.
> in other words, you seem to say that you are a much better guitarist
> than Kazuhito Yamashita, because your teacher did not tell you that
> you make the same errors he does?
>
No. What a horrible misunderstanding. What I
meant is that I have been taught to avoid splats,
buzzes, and weak slurs. I certainly make them.
My teacher does his best to keep me from making
them. I don't think that I will ever be as good
as Yamashita, not even close. Please forgive me if
my unclear writing hinted to you that I thought I
was better than Yamashita. Not so.
> you accuse him of having made a recording that includes
> "minor errors".
>
> That's a very serious charge.
>
I thought I might have heard some buzzes, splats,
and weak slurs. But that is all. So are the
charges droped? By your definition, I'd gladly
retract my statement.
> Who are those people?
> anyone we know? and where did they report to you that they heard what
> you heard?
>
I am not going to name names out of respect for
these people. That is trust.
> I'll tell you what your problem is: you simply do not know how to
> listen to yourself. You do not hear what you say, and you do not read
> what you have just typed.>
Mo, sincerely, what is it that you think I am
saying that I am not admitting to? And also, why
are you knit picking with me so much? Why are you
not more concerned with other statements about
Yamashita rather than my failure to define "minor
error"?
best to you,
Todd Tipton,
Minneapolis, Mn.
dave payne
1981, Sep 1983, April & Aug 1984" but does not say which year applies to which
tracks. Since Yamashita was born sometime in 1961 that puts him anywhere from 19
to 23 years old when he recorded the Manen, Rodrigo and Mompou. I also checked
the Mussorgsky cd, which has a recording date of March, 1981 so he was 19 or 20
when he recorded that.
I don't know if there are any other recordings of the Manen. The Segovia version
is on the Decca label, MCA Victor Japan, MVCC-15 "The Segovia Collection vol 15
- Spanish Masters 2". It contains the Manen and the Mompou, as well as Mallorca,
Falla's Homenaje, some Espla, Donostia, and Esteban de Valera, and Rodrigo's
Fandango and Sarabande Lointaine.
Dave Payne,
the...@interlog.com
PS ah come on, Lemmy's one of the best :)
Klaus Heim wrote:
...
> Now this is exactly what I hoped for. Judgement based on facts. I must get
> the Segovia recording, which I was not aware of . Do you know if there are
> any other recordings? Also, I had not realized, that Yamashita was only 20
> when recording this. That makes the music shine in another light. Still
> can't say the Manen is one of my favorite pieces.
>
...
Dawn and Todd Tipton
"John W. Blossick" wrote:
>
>
> What pieces do you have lined up to play for your MM performance?
>
hello John,
as of right now:
from "Diary of a Seducer" Volume I, Robert Martin
No.s 4, 2, 5, 10, 8, 9
Leo Brouwer
Canticum
Elogio de la Danza
Dos Aires Populares Cubanos
1. Guajira criolla
2. Zapateo
Stele, Philip Houghton
1. Stela
2. Dervish
3. Bronze Apollo
4. Web
Intermission
Suite BWV 996, Bach
1. Prelude
2. Allemande
3. Courante
4. Sarabande
5. Bouree
6. Gigue
Epilogo, from " Elegia por la Muerte de un
Tanguero," Maximo Pujol
Vertigo Shadow, Al di Meola
Fuoco, from "Libra Sonatine," Roland Dyens
The very last set is something I just decided. I
was wanting to play the entire "Libra Sonatine"
but I bailed out on it. I have been spinning my
wheels in the first mvt on the very top line of
page 3. Even after weeks of practice, I still
can't get that where I want it; it sounds
struggled. So the Pujol is brand new to me, but
far easier. The Al di Meola is something I have
been playing for a couple or three years and still
evolving. I am not sure about starting a set with
an epilogue; perhaps I can construe the entire set
as a conclusion! :-)
best,
Todd Tipton
Matanya Ophee
>You are absolutely right. When I used the term
>"minor error" I meant buzzes, splats, and weak
>slurs. Perhaps there is no disagreement after
>all. I heard no minor errors by your definition.
_My_ definition?
Anybody else around here wanting to support young Master Tipton and
define buzzes, splats, and weak slurs as _errors_?
>You may think that because I haven't talked the
>slightest about music, being as I have only talked
>about the possible buzzes, splats, and weak slurs
>I might have heard.
Now we are getting to the bottom of this.
>> you accuse him of having made a recording that includes
>> "minor errors".
>>
>> That's a very serious charge.
>>
>
>I thought I might have heard some buzzes, splats,
>and weak slurs. But that is all. So are the
>charges droped? By your definition, I'd gladly
>retract my statement.
A smart move on your part. Another smart move would be to cut down on
the verbiage and try to think through the implications of what you
say, before you say it.
>> Who are those people?
>> anyone we know? and where did they report to you that they heard what
>> you heard?
>>
>
>I am not going to name names out of respect for
>these people. That is trust.
That is also a dirty trick to accuse someone with a heinous crime,
buzzes, splats, and weak slurs, fer chrissakes, and then not allow the
accused to face his accusers. If you indeed respect your
correspondents, don't mention anything about them. If you speak of
their _opinions_ to me, I need to know _whose_ opinions are being used
in support of your position. Otherwise, it is meaningless drivel.
But since you mentioned it, I did have a rather brief conversation
about you with Jeff Van at the GFA festival in San Antonio. Have no
fear, I won't repeat what he said to me about you. Nobody's business.
Not even yours.
>Why are you
>not more concerned with other statements about
>Yamashita rather than my failure to define "minor
>error"?
Because I have this rule: I do not respond to posts signed with a
screen name, even if I happen to know who the coward is.
I have another rule: I try to ignore Kent Murdick. Not always
possible, but I try.
The real reason though is that these hate mongers are too transparent
and their aim is skewed. They are fighting with a phenomenon that
existed 17 years ago, with a young boy who grew up to be a man, with a
musician who has made a drastic transformation in his approach to
programming. They are fighting with a non-existent phantom.
What you have said, as innocuous as it seems to you, is a bloody
destructive statement about Yamashita _today_. You are entitled to
your impression of his playing. You are not entitled to accuse him of
making errors.
Matanya Ophee
>I don't know if there are any other recordings of the Manen.
According to the Orphee Data base of Guitar Records, the Manen Sonata
was also recorded by:
Paul Ferret (Ariane ARI 132, LP France).
Good luck on finding a copy.
Larry Deack
> What you have said, as innocuous as it seems to you, is a bloody
> destructive statement about Yamashita _today_.
[Sigh]
CARMA Productions
Some things in life are truly wonderful in their reoccurrence, a
sunrise, a sunset… another polemic between Matanya Ophee and Todd
Tipton! Yes, those small things that let one know that all is well in
the world!
I haven't been able to drop into the newsgroup for three or four days
and, sure enough, there's MO and TT back at each other with canine
ferocity - again! How invigorating!
Just to add fuel to the fire… Has anybody apprised Yamashita of all this
passionate discourse and asked him to contribute his view on the issues
brought forward in all the discussion involving "buzzes, splats, and
weak slurs"? THAT might be an interesting question for him to answer for
the benefit of all of us and would truly enhance the content of this
news group. 'Twouldn't it?
If I only knew how to contact him, I would, but I haven't had the
privilege of his acquaintance or e-mail address, much less a visit to my
home. But some of us have…
What's the matter, Mssr. Yamashita puts his pants on like the rest of us
do one leg at a time! Or have we fallen into the quagmire of a cult of
personality and fawning admiration that impedes us from asking any
question of a performing artist in an informal interview?
Mmm… Give me the simplicity of a child watching the naked man walk by
and say: "But, the emperor is naked!"
Someone, please ask Mssr. Yamashita the questions regarding the minutiae
in the recordings you are discussing and then tells us all about it.
Now, that's valuable guitar stuff!
You remind me of the pianist Artur Schnabel's story of a rehearsal with
Otto Klemperer in Los Angeles of a Beethoven Concerto where a
disagreement arose between the two men regarding the tempo in which the
piece would be performed.
Klemperer: "Schnabel, here is the conductor!"
Schnabel: "I know that, and here is the soloist. Only, where is
Beethoven?"
Similarly, where is Yamashita?
Mssr. Tipton, where and when is your MM recital? I'm sure that after all
of this we MUST attend!
Mssr. Ophee, will you attend?
That encounter would have to be documented!
I might even be persuaded to attend to see and hear ALL!
Onward, gentlemen, and thank you for bringing up the questions you do in
your vigorous banter!
Carlos Barrientos
--
CARMA (Cyber Arts, Research, Music & Audio) Productions
Web Site: http://www.carmapro.com "mailto:ca...@carmapro.com"
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/193/carlos_barrientos.html
Phone: (850) 864-3295 or (850) 556-2503, FAX 1-801-383-5228
Snail Mail: PO Box 2344, Fort Walton Beach, FL 32549-2344
Aspart
I 'd like to exchange a copy of Paul Ferret for a Yamashita .
Cordialement,
Olivier
Matanya Ophee <m.o...@orphee.com> a écrit dans le message :
3cfk7tkni1268kfvt...@4ax.com...