OT: Obamacare primer (esp. for Gerry!)

[Cactus Wren]

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/02/03/obamacare-a-primer/

This is really gruesome stuff. This is a bigger heist than the
bailout.

"The ACA was not selflessly designed with the intent of providing
affordable and equitable medical services to those in need, but rather
to acquire taxpayer money for the private insurance companies under
the seemingly helpful guise of health care and the ideological excuse
of personal responsibility. It takes money from ordinary people and
gives it to a medical insurance industry that profits handsomely from
this legally-enforced corporate welfare – all while keeping Americans
locked in the same broken system that puts profit before patients. The
law was essentially written by business executives from the industry
so that special interests would not be upset and profits assured."

[Benoit Meulle-Stef]

It's amazing the amount of BS some peoples can post...

[Curmudgeon]

What color were the helicopters that dropped these leaflets?

[Andrew Schulman]

On Mar 10, 11:42 am, Curmudgeon <eht...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >This is really gruesome stuff.  This is a bigger heist than the
> >bailout.
>

> What color were the helicopters that dropped these leaflets?
>
>

Nice vague pro and con, anyone want to go into detail?

Andrew

[Curmudgeon]

Not me - I'm strictly left wing hit-and-run

[Steven Bornfeld]

Not really. It's a somewhat paranoid take, in that it implies bad
intent on the part of the administration. I think they really believe
this is the best they could do.
Still, it's pathetic--yesterday word came in the medical business news
that the PPACA was going to cost more than originally estimated.
D'oh!

Steve

[thomas]

On Sunday, March 10, 2013 2:05:08 PM UTC-4, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
>
> Not really. It's a somewhat paranoid take, in that it implies bad
> intent on the part of the administration. I think they really believe
> this is the best they could do.

I think you're right, and that the OP is not so far off the mark. Most reasonable people understand that a single-payer system is preferable, but politically unfeasible. To get the necessary votes from industry-captured politicians, Obama had to take the private insurance route.

[Gerry]

True: You can't fight all the battles at the same time and expect to
win any of them.

The original column was by Paul Craig Roberts; he served as an
Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration
earning fame as a co-founder of Reaganomics.

I killfile topics that include user ID's, and so will now kill this one
as well.
--
Music is the best means we have of digesting time. -- W. H. Auden

[Steven Bornfeld]

It's pretty sad that there are so many unreasonable people, but...that's
nothing new.

[Dick Cheney]

On Mar 10, 11:49 am, Andrew Schulman <and...@abacaproductions.com>
wrote:

It's what someone who favors universal medicare might say (which
counter intuitively has lower costs than private insurance). The
government will subsidize the cost of health insurance (to be
purchased from pool formed by either states or the fed) for those with
income under 400% of the poverty rate, if I remember. For those just
over the poverty rate, and not governed by tea bagger governors, an
option for going into medicade is available. So, yes it means higher
sales for insurance companies, but they must cover preexisting
conditions, and presumably they will face more competition by virtue
of having to be in pool.

[Dick Cheney]

On Mar 10, 10:22 am, Benoit Meulle-Stef <b...@bmsguitars.com> wrote:
> It's amazing the amount of BS some peoples can post...

we're having a spat over a Swiss style system vs a British style
system... either is better than am American style system in my opinion.

[Steven Bornfeld]

I'm not familiar with the Swiss style system. I've heard that Germany
has universal health care still administered by private insurance
companies. Is it similar in Switzerland?

[Dick Cheney]

Yes, but Germany has 2000 or so insurance companies that are non
profit- as are the hospitals. The Swiss have fewer for profit
insurance companies, I believe... similar to what we're getting

[Dick Cheney]

oops, that should be 200 insurance companies

[thomas]

Meanwhile, here in the US, TIAA-Cref used to be a non-profit insurance company. Back in the late 90s, Republicans attached a rider to a budget bill that removed its non-profit status. Why? Because the insurance lobby was complaining that TIAA-Cref was cutting into its business.

[dsi1]

I could have guessed that! OTOH, something had to be done about the
accessibility of healthcare in America. PPACA sounds scary and full of
dangers but it's better than sitting on our thumbs for another few
decades. Practically anything would be better than nothing. Lack of
money is a shitty reason to allow suffering.

>
> Steve

[Steven Bornfeld]

On 3/10/2013 9:49 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>
> I could have guessed that! OTOH, something had to be done about the
> accessibility of healthcare in America. PPACA sounds scary and full of
> dangers but it's better than sitting on our thumbs for another few
> decades. Practically anything would be better than nothing. Lack of
> money is a shitty reason to allow suffering.
>
>>
>> Steve
>

Well, the devil is in the details. The assumption is that costs will
decline, based on younger insured in effect subsidizing the old.
Virtually nothing has been done on the cost side (unless you count the
29% reimbursement rate for Medicare dictated by the sustainable growth
formula), and government proxies (the United States Preventive Services
Task Force) telling us we shouldn't screen so much for cancer.
I'm hardly an expert here, but you're right--something has to be done.
I'll quit bloviating on this OT thread--I think it's tragic, and I
can't pretend I have an answer that isn't science or political fiction.

[Andrew Schulman]

Thanks.

Andrew

[Slogoin]

On Mar 10, 8:33 pm, Steven Bornfeld <dentalt...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> I can't pretend I have an answer that isn't science or political fiction.

Best post in the thread.

> Well, the devil is in the details.

There so much in that little statement. Since everything is cost
shifted the numbers can't make sense, except as a numbers game.

[dsi1]

The devil is in the details but sometimes you just have to jump into the
fire and sort it out as you're burning up. :-) My assumption is that
something better will emerge out of the ashes.

Boy, it would sure be great if this nation started getting smarter than
dumber. Whenever I talk to my Swedish step-mom about healthcare and
education in America, I can see the bewilderment about how it's done
here. I think she finds us a little backwards in that department. She
won't come out and say it but she sometimes looks like she's got a pain
in the guts when we're on the subject.

[Benoit Meulle-Stef]

Have you noticed that Cactus Wrem (wank?), have not posted any response after his BS post? Funny how Right wings knowing they have no argues don't argue with you... I miss Doug, He used to respond all the time, with his foot in his mouth, but anyway he responded...

Benoit

[Cactus Wren]

On Mar 11, 5:29 am, Benoit Meulle-Stef <b...@bmsguitars.com> wrote:
> Have you noticed that Cactus Wrem (wank?), have not posted any response after his BS post? Funny how Right wings knowing they have no argues don't argue with you... I miss Doug, He used to respond all the time, with his foot in his mouth, but anyway he responded...
>
> Benoit

Benoit, have a little patience, I didn't even think anyone was going
to post, so I took a few days off, okay?

I wonder if anyone read any of the article? It is about 26 pages
long, so I doubt too many actually looked into it. It is full of
those devilish details that no one wants to read, but that doesn't
stop anyone from having opinions, does it?

Paul Craig Roberts did indeed work for Reagan, and he still likes
Reagan (I hate Reagan, but that doesn't stop me from reading). He was
certainly no fan of Bush, for example. It also should be noted that
Roberts did not write the article (another detail no one seemed to
notice).

Now if you look at the projected plans, you see that they are quite
poor. My situation is that I am uninsured because I can't afford
health care. So now, I will have to pay a penalty for that
priviledge. Either that, or pay thousands of dollars a year for
coverage that I couldn't afford to take advantage of because of the
high deductibles, copays, and coinsurances. The way the formulas work
out, if you are poor or you are rich, or your employer picks up the
tab, things might not change very much. If you are above the Federal
Poverty Limit by a certain multiple, but not too far above it--in
other words, middle class, you are paying a lot, getting no relief.
So maybe I have to pay an extra $6000/year for trash coverage that I
couldn't afford to use? Yeah, great.

I have no ideological problem with universal health care. I do have
an ideological problem with forcing everyone to buy an inferior
product from the very corporations that cause the problem to begin
with. It should have been a single-payer system, Obama never even
tried. I guess only in America is it accomplished by yet another
giveaway to corporations and another hit to the middle class.

[Steven Bornfeld]

I don't think it's right (or accurate) to call Miguel a
right-winger--really.
This will be a hardship for a lot of people. OTOH, it'll be more of a
hardship if they get sick.

[Benoit Meulle-Stef]

>
> I have no ideological problem with universal health care. I do have
>
> an ideological problem with forcing everyone to buy an inferior
>
> product from the very corporations that cause the problem to begin
>
> with. It should have been a single-payer system, Obama never even
>
> tried. I guess only in America is it accomplished by yet another
>
> giveaway to corporations and another hit to the middle class.

You can thanks for that Republicans, they are really protective of the health insurances companies because they make millions for share holders and don't give a shit if you die because denied treatment... If you want to do something about it, call your local representative and ask for REAL health care, like the rest of civilize countries...

Benoit

[Cactus Wren]

It would be nice to just blame the Republicans, but the Democrats are
just as captured by the corps nowadays. That's the sad part. You may
be aware than Obamacare is descended from and actually appears to be
worse, than Romneycare. I have never liked Obama (maybe why you think
I'm a right winger? It's funny, a few days ago, I was called left-
wing trash on another forum) starting from the advisors he gathered
even before he was president. They were the same revolving door,
Clintonite bankster-friendly buddies that brought us NAFTA and
abolished Glass-Steagall and all that goodness. There was nothing in
their background that ever suggested they would ever do anything to
regulate corporate or bank power or accomplish any of the change that
was promised.

[Cactus Wren]

On Mar 11, 9:26 am, Steven Bornfeld <dentaltwinm...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

Steve, I've never done anything to deserve you being nice to me--now
leave off!

By the way, I know Gerry isn't reading this, but has anyone on this
forum ever more informed the group about who he is going to killfile
and what topics interest him and don't interest him? Hey Gerry, I
need more information on your usenet usage habits so I can better
serve you!

[John Nguyen]

On Monday, March 11, 2013 12:34:07 PM UTC-4, Benoit Meulle-Stef wrote:
> > > I have no ideological problem with universal health care. I do have > > an ideological problem with forcing everyone to buy an inferior > > product from the very corporations that cause the problem to begin > > with. It should have been a single-payer system, Obama never even > > tried. I guess only in America is it accomplished by yet another > > giveaway to corporations and another hit to the middle class. You can thanks for that Republicans, they are really protective of the health insurances companies because they make millions for share holders and don't give a shit if you die because denied treatment... If you want to do something about it, call your local representative and ask for REAL health care, like the rest of civilize countries... Benoit

It is easy to point the finger from one polarized end to the other, but I think the current political system is badly broken and wholly controlled by special interest groups and business. If the Democrats really wanted to do right, they had the first two years in Obabma's first term to do something about it, considering they had majority controls on both the Houses and the Whitehouse.

John

[dsi1]

On 3/11/2013 6:26 AM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
>
> I don't think it's right (or accurate) to call Miguel a
> right-winger--really.

I think he's a good and fine fellow - not that anybody cares what I
think. :-)

> This will be a hardship for a lot of people. OTOH, it'll be more
> of a hardship if they get sick.

We have a pretty good insurance plan but others have no insurance at
all. My guess is that a lot of people must be insulated from all this
but it hits us like a kick to the guts. As it goes, we lack insulation.

[Benoit Meulle-Stef]

Sorry if I was rude to you, I usually love cactus except wen I sit on one by mistake! I think Obama is trying to do something (more than many others republicans and democrats) BUT US government is so much overtaken by lobbies that it's almost impossible to do something really FOR the people and not for the money guys... :-(


Benoit

[Steven Bornfeld]

Exactly right--people who've always had health insurance as a benefit
of employment have no idea what's going on. But they will.
My small group plan just went up from $2300 or so per month to over
$2600/mo as of Mar. 1. So I spent a LOT of time looking around for
cheaper options with other companies. But there are not many companies
writing health policies in NY State. The reason is that some of the
provisions of the PPACA have been in effect in NY State since
1994--specifically an insurance company must write a policy for anyone.
If they've been continuously covered before, there can be no
exclusions for pre-existing conditions. If there has been no insurance
for 60 days before, there can be a waiting period of 1 year for
pre-existing conditions, after which they go away.
Because my old insurance company had the best network of doctors and
hospitals, I continued with them. But I lost the out-of-network
benefits, increased my copays and deductibles, and was able to knock the
premium down to a bit under $1600/month. Now I have to keep out of
trouble. :-)
I'm very lucky I can afford it--so many can't. And I won't be able to
either the way premiums are rising. Almost 5 years to go for
Medicare--unless they raise the age of eligibility, if it's there at all.

Steve

[Cactus Wren]

On Mar 11, 1:44 pm, Benoit Meulle-Stef <b...@bmsguitars.com> wrote:
> Sorry if I was rude to you, I usually love cactus except wen I sit on one by mistake! I think Obama is trying to do something (more than many others republicans and democrats) BUT US government is so much overtaken by lobbies that it's almost impossible to do something really FOR the people and not for the money guys... :-(
>
> Benoit

No problem!

The cactus wren is the state bird of Arizona. It's a feisty bird with
a loud, racous voice. Yes, I live in same place as Sherriff Joe and
the only place in America you have to carry your documentation at all
times unless you want to be incarcerated!

[dsi1]

On 3/11/2013 10:51 AM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
>
> Exactly right--people who've always had health insurance as a
> benefit of employment have no idea what's going on. But they will.
> My small group plan just went up from $2300 or so per month to over
> $2600/mo as of Mar. 1. So I spent a LOT of time looking around for
> cheaper options with other companies. But there are not many companies
> writing health policies in NY State. The reason is that some of the
> provisions of the PPACA have been in effect in NY State since
> 1994--specifically an insurance company must write a policy for anyone.
> If they've been continuously covered before, there can be no
> exclusions for pre-existing conditions. If there has been no insurance
> for 60 days before, there can be a waiting period of 1 year for
> pre-existing conditions, after which they go away.
> Because my old insurance company had the best network of doctors
> and hospitals, I continued with them. But I lost the out-of-network
> benefits, increased my copays and deductibles, and was able to knock the
> premium down to a bit under $1600/month. Now I have to keep out of
> trouble. :-)
> I'm very lucky I can afford it--so many can't. And I won't be able
> to either the way premiums are rising. Almost 5 years to go for
> Medicare--unless they raise the age of eligibility, if it's there at all.
>
> Steve

I feel for you Steve, there will be a lot of sacrifices to be made -
that I'm sure of. If doing the right thing is usually painful, we must
be doing the right thing.

We should view this like a trip to the dentist. A lot of people are
filled with fear but when it's all over, we find that it wasn't as bad
as we imagined. The good news is that it couldn't be worse than our
fears - or can it?

[Steven Bornfeld]

On 3/11/2013 5:17 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>
> I feel for you Steve, there will be a lot of sacrifices to be made -
> that I'm sure of. If doing the right thing is usually painful, we must
> be doing the right thing.
>
> We should view this like a trip to the dentist. A lot of people are
> filled with fear but when it's all over, we find that it wasn't as bad
> as we imagined. The good news is that it couldn't be worse than our
> fears - or can it?

For some people the glass is half-full. For other people the glass is
half-empty.
My wife says my glass just broke and cut one of my arteries.

Steve

[dsi1]

Your wife is pretty funny.

The good news is that at least you feel something. Whenever I go to the
dentist, I feel nothing at all. No anxiety or tension - it's just one
big void. In this world, I feel like I have no glass at all. It's a
funny state to be in.

>
> Steve

[Slogoin]

On Mar 11, 1:51 pm, Steven Bornfeld <dentaltwinm...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>
>   I'm very lucky I can afford it--so many can't.

Yes, you are lucky and so are many in the US. A dentist like you
would be a godsend to some communities on this globe.

[dsi1]

On 3/11/2013 12:33 PM, Dick Cheney wrote:
>
> I always wonder how many crowns he going to say I'm going to need. His
> record is 4 so far.
>

4 crowns is a heck of a lot but that ain't nothing. My wife is trying to
find her brother some dentist that will work cheap or even free. I can't
imagine that it's going to turn out very well. At that level of care,
they mostly pull any teeth that's not viable. He's sort of a recluse and
it's up to his big sisters to figure out of a way of having his teeth
checked. I really like my brother-in-laws but teeth were never a big
concern for them. Whatchagonnado?

[Steven Bornfeld]

On 3/11/2013 6:33 PM, Dick Cheney wrote:
> I always wonder how many crowns he going to say I'm going to need. His
> record is 4 so far.
>

I need more patients like you. ;-)
Actually, I hardly have to tell you that health care is big business.
For some people it's a calling, but it's getting harder and harder to
find doctors like that. They do exist--like this doc:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/magazine/can-a-radical-new-treatment-save-children-with-severe-allergies.html?ref=magazine&_r=0

There's enough blame to go around. People still think being a doctor is
a great way to make a living, but it's a lousy way to make a living
unless you love it. If you don't, it's just a paycheck, and that kind
of thinking can get your patients (and the doc!) in all kinds of
trouble. Maybe you've been following the story of the fungal meningitis
outbreak that originated in the compounding pharmacy in Massachusetts.
The segment on 60 minutes yesterday gave a good feel for the sleazy
background of this horrific scandal:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50142537n

One of my pet peeves is that I'm constantly bombarded with solicitations
from practice management consultants who will get my practice to the
"next level".
The first thing they tell you to do is to set "production goals". I
think that tells you all you need to know.
That doesn't mean your dentist took this course. ;-)
But if you're developing problems at this rate, he should be able to
give you a pretty good idea why, and what can be done to stabilize
things. What you do with that information is up to you.

Steve

[Steven Bornfeld]

On 3/11/2013 5:54 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>
> Your wife is pretty funny.
>
> The good news is that at least you feel something. Whenever I go to the
> dentist, I feel nothing at all. No anxiety or tension - it's just one
> big void.

Actually, most people probably have some level of anxiety about
treatment, but not very much. Quite a lot of people are like you, but
you hear of course about the terrorized people, the horrible root
canals, the "marathon man" routine.
Of course, the really fearful people I almost never see.

Steve

[dsi1]

On 3/11/2013 2:48 PM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
> On 3/11/2013 5:54 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>>
>> Your wife is pretty funny.
>>
>> The good news is that at least you feel something. Whenever I go to the
>> dentist, I feel nothing at all. No anxiety or tension - it's just one
>> big void.
>
> Actually, most people probably have some level of anxiety about
> treatment, but not very much. Quite a lot of people are like you, but
> you hear of course about the terrorized people, the horrible root
> canals, the "marathon man" routine.
> Of course, the really fearful people I almost never see.
>
> Steve

I haven't been to my dentist in a couple of years. Funny how time slips
away. My dentist is a good guy and his office used to be right next door
to mine so it was really convenient to go to him. What really scares me,
however, is his bill. He gives me a discount but I hate shelling out
hundreds of dollars every visit. BTW, we do have a pretty good dental plan.

My wife says her dentist is great and doesn't charge much. I also liked
how he hands out a Water-Pik thingie on the first visit. I love that
gadget! I highly recommend them. My guess is that you do too.

Anyway, it's a question of loyalty vs. money and my way of dealing with
conflict is avoiding it at all costs. My guess is that I'm going for
saving money but how will I hide my guilt and shame when I see him in
the parking lot? :-)

[Benoit Meulle-Stef]

Steve:
I would be your worst customer ever, I never had a cavity in my entire life... My dad used to be the same, he died 69 with all his tees and 0 cavities...

Lucky me!

Benoit

[Steven Bornfeld]

I know your type--you're hardly the worst. Unless you become assaultive!

Steve

[Slogoin]

On Mar 11, 5:13 pm, dsi1 <d...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:

> At that level of care, they mostly pull any teeth that's not viable.

That "level" is most of the globe.

[Steven Bornfeld]

That's a bit of an exaggeration. Care standards are improving in China
and south asia, southeast asia and south America.
Still, there are huge inequities in all of these countries--and the
United States. Things are better in most of Europe and in Japan.

Steve

[thomas]

On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 1:57:33 PM UTC-4, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
>
> That's a bit of an exaggeration. Care standards are improving in China
> and south asia, southeast asia and south America.
>
> Still, there are huge inequities in all of these countries--and the
> United States. Things are better in most of Europe and in Japan.

In other news, in LA they just opened new centers for chemotherapy and cataract surgery -- for dogs. Meanwhile at my house, we still have Obamacare death panels for dogs.

[dsi1]

I was in awe of a classmate that had this condition. As a mutation, it
sure beats having 6 toes.

[Slogoin]

On Mar 12, 10:57 am, Steven Bornfeld <dentaltwinm...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
>

> That's a bit of an exaggeration.

No it is not. There are 7 billion of us with more than 3 billion
living on a few dollar a day. The dentistry of yanking teeth is shared
by most of the developing world, even among those earning much more.

The reality is most US tourists never go to any of the "ghettos"
that are everywhere on this globe even though many of the folks
serving them in the resorts live in such conditions. Believe me, the
dentists who do come to help, once a month or whatever, mostly just
pull teach all day long. This is the reality for so many even in some
of the more affluent of exotic vacation getaways.

As I said, we are VERY lucky.

[Steven Bornfeld]

On 3/12/2013 3:38 PM, Slogoin wrote:
> No it is not. There are 7 billion of us with more than 3 billion
> living on a few dollar a day. The dentistry of yanking teeth is shared
> by most of the developing world, even among those earning much more.
>
> The reality is most US tourists never go to any of the "ghettos"
> that are everywhere on this globe even though many of the folks
> serving them in the resorts live in such conditions. Believe me, the
> dentists who do come to help, once a month or whatever, mostly just
> pull teach all day long. This is the reality for so many even in some
> of the more affluent of exotic vacation getaways.
>
> As I said, we are VERY lucky.
>

I am not going to argue the numbers with you--whatever they are, they
are pretty bad.
The raw statistics can be misleading too. There is lower perceived need
in the third world. Part of this is that a deficient diet is not so
destructive as ours. Probably more of the difference is that so many
people are dying of dysentery and HIV that they don't live long enough
to develop many of the illnesses of old age, including periodontal disease.
So I'm not sanguine about this. Still, raw statistics I've seen from
China and India (except for the most rural areas) have improved
significantly for dental care

Steve

[Slogoin]

On Mar 12, 1:11 pm, Steven Bornfeld <dentaltwinm...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>  Still, raw statistics I've seen from China and India (except for the most rural areas)
> have improved significantly for dental care

If you look at the WHO stats you will see a serious lack of
dentists for those who need them most. All many CAN do is yank teeth.
What I don't like about stats is they are not reality and do not tell
the whole story. If you go and talk to folks where they live you get a
whole different picture than what WHO publishes. It's much worse than
the stats.

[dsi1]

On 3/12/2013 8:09 AM, thomas wrote:
>
> In other news, in LA they just opened new centers for chemotherapy and cataract surgery -- for dogs. Meanwhile at my house, we still have Obamacare death panels for dogs.
>

My OCD Chinese friend's German ex-girlfriend's dog had to have back
surgery a few years ago. "Boots" was the little fella's name and it was
going to cost about $8,000 to fix him up to be able to walk again - with
no guarantee of success. The family was a bit over extended on it's
credit so they needed him to fork over the money. He asked me about it.
My advice was that they can go "fuck that dog" so of course, he gave
them his credit card number.

Eight grand later, the dog still walked goofy and my friend even went to
CA to babysit when the family had to go to Stuttgart to visit mutti and
vater. The worst part was that little Bootie had a disgusting propensity
to shit all over the place. My assumption was that Boots was laying
golden eggs or shitting diamonds but evidently it was only regular
doggie poo coming out of his orifice. That's a shame.

Dog lovers will be glad to know that little Bootie is walking just fine
these days. My guess is that the dog docs just shaved the dog, made a
little incision, stitched it, and then put a down payment on a fishing
boat. Where's Dr. Pol when you need him?

[John Nguyen]

On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 4:52:09 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> On 3/12/2013 8:09 AM, thomas wrote: > > In other news, in LA they just opened new centers for chemotherapy and cataract surgery -- for dogs. Meanwhile at my house, we still have Obamacare death panels for dogs. > My OCD Chinese friend's German ex-girlfriend's dog had to have back surgery a few years ago. "Boots" was the little fella's name and it was going to cost about $8,000 to fix him up to be able to walk again - with no guarantee of success. The family was a bit over extended on it's credit so they needed him to fork over the money. He asked me about it. My advice was that they can go "fuck that dog" so of course, he gave them his credit card number. Eight grand later, the dog still walked goofy and my friend even went to CA to babysit when the family had to go to Stuttgart to visit mutti and vater. The worst part was that little Bootie had a disgusting propensity to shit all over the place. My assumption was that Boots was laying golden eggs or shitting diamonds but evidently it was only regular doggie poo coming out of his orifice. That's a shame. Dog lovers will be glad to know that little Bootie is walking just fine these days. My guess is that the dog docs just shaved the dog, made a little incision, stitched it, and then put a down payment on a fishing boat. Where's Dr. Pol when you need him?

My nephew who loves animals thought about becoming a vet, until a vet acquaintance told him that vet business mostly had to deal with the owner's economic problems, and if one really loves animals, one should not become a vet. It's such a twisted logic, but somehow it made sense to my nephew and he went for engineering instead.
Cheers,

John

[Slogoin]

On Mar 12, 2:48 pm, John Nguyen <johnnguyen5...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My nephew who loves animals thought about becoming a vet,
> until a vet acquaintance told him that vet business mostly had
> to deal with the owner's economic problems

So true for so many. My wife and I have done work with animal
rescue groups. It's hard to get folks educated about the need for
neutering. My wife helped capture and neuter a lot of cats on one
small island. The local group raises money to provide free neutering
and last year they got the first national animal cruelty law passed in
their country. Without the huge amount of volunteer work done by so
many it would not be pretty.

[dsi1]

On 3/12/2013 11:48 AM, John Nguyen wrote:
> My nephew who loves animals thought about becoming a vet, until a vet acquaintance told him that vet business mostly had to deal with the owner's economic problems, and if one really loves animals, one should not become a vet. It's such a twisted logic, but somehow it made sense to my nephew and he went for engineering instead.
> Cheers,
>
> John
>

My gut feeling was that the family was being taken for a ride and not a
good, clean, fun ride either. Of course, the possibility exists that I'm
just a suspicious person that looks for the bad in everybody. Hey,
anything is possible! :-)

[thomas]

I don't fully agree. If you really love an animal, you put it to sleep when it gets too infirm. Subjecting a dog to chemotherapy seems incredibly cruel and selfish to me.

In other words, I don't wax 'em just because I'm poor.