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Stockhausen's POLE performed on 2 laptops (in London )

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Mark Stratford

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Oct 4, 2009, 9:43:06 AM10/4/09
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There were some fabulous newly-minted sounds in this performance
yesterday in Kings Cross. But I was a bit confused. All the other
times I've heard this process pieces and the more frequently performed
Spiral (the corresponding version for single performer) it's been
clear that the soloist, whether flute, soprano, sax, tenor or
electronium has been commenting on and transforming the shortwave
sounds.

But with these two guys on laptops, it was never obvious what was from
shortwaves they were picking up and what was them transforming it. In
fact, much of it could have been through turning the dial without
anything being done to it. It sounded great but not at all what I'd
expected.

It will be broadcast by BBC in late Nov and I'll post a reminder then.

Was any other reader at this concert? Pole was definitely the
highlight, being coupled with Varese's thin poeme electronique and an
instantly forgettable Berio piece.

Mark Stratford

Jerry

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Oct 4, 2009, 5:06:31 PM10/4/09
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On Oct 4, 6:43 am, Mark Stratford <mark_stratfor...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
I wasn't there, Mark, but I have heard laptop versions of some of
these process pieces before (Kurzwellen and Prozession), and one
serious limitation in those performances was that the equipment did
not easily accommodate two of the four modes of transformation
specified by the score, namely augmentation/diminution of an entire
segment and, more significantly, insertion or omission of elements
upon repetition of a segment. Even simple pitch transposition is
difficult to accomplish. In fact, if actual short-wave reception is
being used (and Prozession does not use short-wave receivers, of
course) there is the problem of how to capture and store the
soundstream fast enough to enable immediate repetition and at the same
time apply transformation processes in up to four different parameters
simultaneously.

What happened in the performances I heard was that the laptopists
simply ignored three of the four parameters and concentrated mainly on
dynamics, or just didn't repeat events at all. This is the approximate
equivalent of leaving out the two violins and cello from a Beethoven
string quartet, and then concentrating only on the notes available on
the top two strings of the viola.

Another problem often encountered in these pieces is that short-wave
reception inside most concert halls is very poor because of the dense
walls surrounding the auditorium. This can be solved by using an
exterior antenna and proper communications gear instead of the little
portable receivers usually employed, or else by using pre-recorded
tapes of short-wave signals. Could you judge what the reception was
like in Kings Cross?

You also did not mention the part for the sound projectionist, which
is not going to come across very well in the radio broadcast next
month. Pole was the last of these process-plan scores to be composed,
and is the only one with a written-out part for the sound
projectionist. Originally designed for the spherical auditorium at
Expo 70, it is nevertheless adapted in the score for use in
conventional spaces. The instructions particularly emphasize vertical
motion in columns of speakers, and there are special signs for sudden,
drastic movements from one extreme position to another. Did any of
this happen in this performance? The improvised counterpart in
Prozession was one of the most arresting, often startling aspects of
the performances by Ensemble Recherche at the Stockhausen Courses in
Kürten last July. Although Pole is described as being "for two", it is
actually a trio (just as Prozession is really a quintet), in which the
sound projectionist plays a role of equal importance to the musicians
who actually produce the sounds.

--
Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."


Pawlly Phonic

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Oct 4, 2009, 11:44:41 PM10/4/09
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On Oct 4, 2:06 pm, Jerry <jeromek...@comcast.net> wrote:

> Another problem often encountered in these pieces is that short-wave
> reception inside most concert halls is very poor because of the dense
> walls surrounding the auditorium. This can be solved by using an
> exterior antenna and proper communications gear instead of the little
> portable receivers usually employed, or else by using pre-recorded
> tapes of short-wave signals.

Always wondered, haven't performers ever been tempted to make a deal
with a few local HAM radio opperators?

Paula

Mark Stratford

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Oct 5, 2009, 4:21:23 AM10/5/09
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>>short-wave reception inside most concert halls is very poor <<

Yes, a good point I'd never considered. It was in a very deeply sunk
basement which I gather was made extra low to minimise the noise of
the major railway station next door.

LIghting-wise, I wish the performers had gone the route of the KhS
"little moon" in a darkened room. Instead there was an infantile
projection on a screen which looked only vaguely related in terms of
pitch and volume to the sound and I heard several people moaning
afterwards what a distraction it had been.

Robert Worby introduced it all enthusiastically but maybe because of
time limitations this amounted to little more than a name-check.

>> haven't performers ever been tempted to make a deal
>> with a few local HAM radio opperators?

LOL

bernardp

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Oct 5, 2009, 5:45:01 AM10/5/09
to
> who actually produce the sounds. sections
>
> --
> Jerry Kohl <jeromek...@comcast.net>

> "Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

I wasn't there for this performance. However I don't think that any
modern laptopist could blame their software tools for failure to use
all the parameters. On a typical program such as Logic Audio it is
easy to cut and copy sections for repetition, or paste in inserts or
change the speed of the sample without altering pitch (compression),
or transpose instantly using the pitch shifting plugins, etc.
I imagine the laptopists may have played what they intended to play,
not necessarily following the score properly.

Mark Stratford

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Oct 5, 2009, 6:56:00 AM10/5/09
to

>> There are special signs for sudden, drastic movements from one


>> extreme position to another. Did any of this happen in this performance?

Yes, there were movements but nothing I'd consider extreme. Unlike
Kurzwellen in that East London church last Nov where the
projectionist was making the audience seasick at one point with his
swashbuckling dial ;-)

There was a nice programming link with Pole and the Varese both having
been created for World Expo events. The high point of the dull Berio
peice was the viola player breaking a string and saying "we thought
all the problems tonight would be with the electronics"

Jerry

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Oct 5, 2009, 11:41:52 PM10/5/09
to

To what purpose? To make it seem as if every station was playing
nothing but Beethoven, for example? That, of course, is precisely what
Stockhausen himself did for the Beethoven bicentenary, only he used
the simpler and much more practical expedient of making tape-recorded
collages of Beethoven's music for the four performers to use. I have
always felt that the recording of this version of Kurzwellen--known by
the titles "Stockhoven-Beethausen Opus 1970" and "Kurzwellen mit
Beethovenmusik"--is the easiest in which to follow the
transformations, precisely because of the consistency and familiarity
of the source materials.

These transformations, after all, are the main point. Although the
instructions say that traditionally "musical" materials should on the
whole be avoided, there are plenty of examples in all the recordings
of Kurzwellen, and more than a few in recordings of Spiral that were
released with the composer's blessing. Perhaps it was for this reason,
though, that Stockhausen decided against reissuing the recording of
Kurzwellen mit Beethovenmusik on CD. He did permit a substantial
excerpt, however, to appear on the CD accompanying Winrich Hopp's book
on Kurzwellen.

Jerry

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Oct 5, 2009, 11:55:32 PM10/5/09
to

I should clarify that it was only my assumption that the software was
a problem--none of the workmen were blaming their tools. I have no
hands-on experience with Logic, but I would think that near-
instantaneous cut-and-paste edits of elements lasting on average
between five and ten seconds, in order to insert freshly-improvised
details matching and expanding the surrounding material would be
difficult in the extreme. Certainly considerably more difficult than
imitating a sound on the piano or the viola and repeating it
immediately with such alterations.

--
Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net>

Mark Stratford

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Oct 6, 2009, 6:24:27 AM10/6/09
to

Well there’s no accounting for tastes of course and this guy’s blog :

http://boulezian.blogspot.com/2009/10/london-sinfonietta-sonic-explorations_04.html

was quite the opposite of what I thought. “…Berio’s extraordinary
sound world … Pole for 2 had not worn well… a tour around various
shortwave frequencies .. an unsatisfactory compromise between
organised and disorganised sound..”

blah blah blah

Jerry

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Oct 6, 2009, 3:12:40 PM10/6/09
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On Oct 6, 3:24 am, Mark Stratford <mark_stratfor...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

> Well there’s no accounting for tastes of course and this guy’s blog  :
>
> http://boulezian.blogspot.com/2009/10/london-sinfonietta-sonic-explor...

>
> was quite the opposite of what I thought. “…Berio’s extraordinary
> sound world  …  Pole for 2 had not worn well… a tour around various
> shortwave frequencies .. an unsatisfactory compromise between
> organised and disorganised sound..”
>
> blah blah blah

Though to be fair, his characterization of Pole is qualified: "that at
least was the impression garnered by this performance". I myself am at
a loss to explain how a piece like Pole--as opposed to a particular
performance of it--can sound dated. Still, he obviously regards the
Berio more highly than you do, Mark. I have never heard Naturale, so I
have no opinion.

I forgot to ask before: You described the Varese as "thin", but what
about the spatial projection? It ought to have been more drastically
spatialized than Pole (425 loudspeakers were specified for the
original version, and the audience was meant to stroll through the
space).

--
Jerry Kohl

Mark Stratford

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Oct 7, 2009, 6:25:32 AM10/7/09
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>>You described the Varese as "thin", but what about the spatial projection? <<

Yes, the spacial projection was very well done. Really, I only thought
this piece "thin" in comparison with Kontakte, Oktophonie, Gesang der
J [... add your other favourites here... ] It has many interesting
parts of course.

BTW: I see on Bernard's site there's a previously unreleased vers of
Kurzwellen (from Osaka 1970) on one of the recent Text-CDs. Is this
worth getting?

Mark

bernardp

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Oct 7, 2009, 7:59:26 AM10/7/09
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On Oct 7, 11:25 am, Mark Stratford <mark_stratfor...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

For the opportunity to experience a performance made live in the
German Pavillion during the 1970 Osaka Expo (albeit without spherical
surround reproduction!) then that Kurzwellen is unique and unmissable!
The text-series of CDs has only a few treasures hidden away among the
lectures and familiar recordings. Kathinka Pasveer has said in this
text-series of CDs the new stereo masterings of certain early
electronic works are superior to those previously available, and will
replace the earlier stereo versions in future releases.

Mark Stratford

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Oct 7, 2009, 8:51:13 AM10/7/09
to

> in this
> text-series of CDs the new stereo masterings of certain early
> electronic works are superior to those previously available, and will
> replace the earlier stereo versions in future releases.

I hear that the 'new' Telemusik is especially good.

Jerry

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Oct 7, 2009, 12:21:11 PM10/7/09
to
On Oct 7, 5:51 am, Mark Stratford <mark_stratfor...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

Yes, that has the most spectacular difference, of the ones I have
heard. Stockhausen did the remastering in November 2007, only a few
weeks before he died. Evidently, the DG engineers had added some high-
frequency rolloff when they produced the master tape for the original
LP release, and Stockhausen must not have noticed this at the time CD9
was produced. The new version went back to the original stereo master
that Stockhausen had mixed from the five-channel original in Tokyo.
Whatever other tweaks may have been added, the result is much brighter
and crisper than the older version--the effect is a bit like having
the windows cleaned after years of cumulated grime have dulled the
incoming light.

Jerry

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Oct 7, 2009, 12:34:29 PM10/7/09
to
On Oct 7, 4:59 am, bernardp <berna...@mac.com> wrote:
> On Oct 7, 11:25 am, Mark Stratford <mark_stratfor...@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > >>You described the Varese as "thin", but what about the spatial projection? <<
>
> > Yes, the spacial projection was very well done. Really, I only thought
> > this piece "thin" in comparison with  Kontakte, Oktophonie, Gesang der
> > J [... add your other favourites here... ]  It has many interesting
> > parts of course.
>
> > BTW: I see on Bernard's site there's a previously unreleased vers of
> > Kurzwellen (from Osaka 1970) on one of the recent Text-CDs. Is this
> > worth getting?
>
> > Mark
>
> For the opportunity to experience a performance made live in the
> German Pavillion during the 1970 Osaka Expo (albeit without spherical
> surround reproduction!) then that Kurzwellen is unique and unmissable!

I endorse this view, but would like to add three comments: First, it
is only half of Kurzwellen (the second half), but this does not mean
it is only half of a longer performance. The announcement at the
beginning (in English and Japanese) makes it clear that the musicians
"will now perform Kurzwellen, part 2". Second, the sense of vast space
around the performers is remarkable. How much this is a property of
the auditorium and how much it is a product of distant miking is
uncertain (it was a more or less clandestine operation by Peter
Eötvös, not an "official" recording). Third, a comparison of the kinds
of material received on the short-wave radios here with those on the
two slightly earlier recordings (on CD13 and CD61) suggests
limitations on the intended "global access" to sounds. Over and over,
the received material in Osaka proves to be Japanese in origin, for
the simple reason that the performers are much nearer to transmitters
in that country. In the earlier recording, both made in Germany,
European material dominates, for the same reason.

Jerry

unread,
Oct 7, 2009, 12:35:02 PM10/7/09
to
On Oct 7, 5:51 am, Mark Stratford <mark_stratfor...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

Yes, that has the most spectacular difference, of the ones I have


heard. Stockhausen did the remastering in November 2007, only a few
weeks before he died. Evidently, the DG engineers had added some high-
frequency rolloff when they produced the master tape for the original
LP release, and Stockhausen must not have noticed this at the time CD9
was produced. The new version went back to the original stereo master
that Stockhausen had mixed from the five-channel original in Tokyo.
Whatever other tweaks may have been added, the result is much brighter
and crisper than the older version--the effect is a bit like having
the windows cleaned after years of cumulated grime have dulled the
incoming light.

--

Mark Stratford

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Oct 8, 2009, 6:21:51 AM10/8/09
to

You've probably got me interested enough to buy this Telemusik re-
mastering. I see as an extra it includes 18 bits of unmodulated
source material. How does these come across - it is easy to appreciate
how they've been transformed ?

mark

Nigel Curtis

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Oct 8, 2009, 12:24:47 PM10/8/09
to

The 6th hour of Klang - Schoenheit for flute, bassethorn + trumpet
(~30 mins) - had its premiere this week. Did anybody go or hear a
broadcast or other news.?

nc

Jerry

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Oct 8, 2009, 11:28:11 PM10/8/09
to
On Oct 8, 3:21 am, Mark Stratford <mark_stratfor...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
Not so much 'an extra', as the illustrations for the lecture on
Telemusik which is the main business of the CD. In fact, the greater
part of this lecture is taken up with the presentation of this source
material, and it is fascinating to hear. Even if you have little or no
German, much of it is easy enough to follow. In some cases, materials
that I had assumed (without thinking about it, since I could easily
have checked the score) were heavily modified in Telemusik turn out to
be practically untouched (the conch shells played by the Japanese
priests, for example). In other cases the material is indeed
transformed beyond recognition, but it is amazing that Stockhausen
would have been attracted to the source at all. For example, the
Vietnamese 'flute concert' sounds like it must have been composed by
Steve Reich. Perhaps Stockhausen took special pleasure in utterly
dismembering those sounds?

--
Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net>

Jerry

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Oct 8, 2009, 11:47:53 PM10/8/09
to

Bass clarinet, rather than basset horn but, yes, it was premiered in
Lisbon at the Gulbenkian Festival on one of three concerts made up
mainly of works from the Klang cycle. I did not go and if there was a
broadcast, I certainly did not hear of it. However, I have heard that
the concerts went extremely well, but that the Gulbenkian Foundation
evidently regards their festival not as an international forum, but
merely a local affair, as the programme booklet was printed only in
Portuguese. Apparently this booklet was very well-made, and the
programme notes on the Klang cycle in general and on Schönheit and
Hoffnung in particular are very informative and beautiful. I should
hope so, too, since I wrote them myself.

--
Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net>

Mark Stratford

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Oct 9, 2009, 4:17:09 AM10/9/09
to

There's a complete translation of the Telemusik lecture here:

http://www.stockhausen.org/Text-CD%2016_translation.pdf

Jerry

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Oct 9, 2009, 2:46:28 PM10/9/09
to
On Oct 9, 1:17 am, Mark Stratford <mark_stratfor...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

> There's a complete translation of the Telemusik lecture here:
>
> http://www.stockhausen.org/Text-CD%2016_translation.pdf

Yes, indeed. I should have thought of that. So, even with no German at
all it should be possible to follow along and see how the source
recordings fit in.

--
Jerry Kohl

Pawlly Phonic

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Oct 11, 2009, 2:14:38 AM10/11/09
to
On Oct 8, 8:47 pm, Jerry <jeromek...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Oct 8, 9:24 am, Nigel Curtis <cn_cur...@runbox.com> wrote:
>
> ...as the programme booklet was printed only in

> Portuguese. Apparently this booklet was very well-made, and the
> programme notes on the Klang cycle in general and on Schönheit and
> Hoffnung in particular are very informative and beautiful. I should
> hope so, too, since I wrote them myself.
>
> --
> Jerry Kohl <jeromek...@comcast.net>

> "Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Really! I hope your Portuguese is better than your Hungarian! ;-)

Paula

Jerry

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Oct 11, 2009, 7:06:38 PM10/11/09
to

I am told my Hungarian is perfection itself, so I don't see how my
Portuguese could be any better. However, I am no judge myself, since I
cannot speak or read Hungarian at all, and I read Portuguese only
slowly and with a dictionary. Fortunately, the Gulbenkian Foundation
provided a translator. I was only surprised that they published the
notes *only* in this language. I had assumed that the Gulbenkian
Festival was international in scope and would attract many foreign
visitors who would appreciate having notes in English or Grman, as
well as Portuguese.

--
Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net>

Mark Stratford

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Oct 12, 2009, 3:56:47 AM10/12/09
to

>>[1970 Kurzwellen]..... the received material in Osaka proves to be Japanese in >>origin, for the simple reason that the performers are much nearer to
>> transmitters in that country.

I managed to hear this over the weekend. That full-throated, earnest
Japanese song starting about 3 mins from the end must have been a gift
to them. It's a spectacular ending.

mark

Pawlly Phonic

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Oct 12, 2009, 4:05:12 PM10/12/09
to
On Oct 11, 4:06 pm, Jerry <jeromek...@comcast.net> wrote:

> Fortunately, the Gulbenkian Foundation
> provided a translator. I was only surprised that they published the
> notes *only* in this language.

> --
> Jerry Kohl <jeromek...@comcast.net>
> "Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Great. In your dotage, stumping around a bookstore on a cane, you'll
come upon some new Stockhausen tome, find yourself in the index and
read, "Distinguished Stockhausen scholar J. Kohl has pointed out that
this bass clarinet motiv in Schönheit was inspired by a bucket of
fresh eels from the fishmarket in Köln that one of the copilots had
placed under his seat and Stockhausen had seen during a rehearsal of
the Mittwoch Helicopter Quartet."

Paula

Jerry

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Oct 12, 2009, 5:41:33 PM10/12/09
to

Prolly. It still wouldn't be as bad as the alleged English translation
I saw twenty-odd years ago of a newspaper review of a harpsichord
recital by Gustav Leonhard in São Paulo. The translator must have been
using an early prototype of Babelfish, since he consistently
represented Leonhardt as performing on "nails". (Portuguese "cravo"
can mean this, as well as "carnation", "fingernail", "wart", and
"harpsichord". I suppose it could have been worse!)

--
Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net>

Jerry

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Oct 12, 2009, 6:05:16 PM10/12/09
to
On Oct 12, 12:56 am, Mark Stratford <mark_stratfor...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

Yes, indeed! To some extent it is matter of discrimination on the
part of the performers to choose suitable material, but you cannot
tune in something on a short-wave receiver if it isn't there. Takashi
Matsudaira had a similar stroke of good fortune in his performance of
Spiral at the 2008 Stockhausen Courses. He was just about ready to
finish when he happened upon an excited announcer doing a racing
commentary, or some such. It was just what he needed and he seized the
opportunity to raise what had been a respectable performance into an
outstanding success--a funny and at the same time thrilling
conclusion.

Pawlly Phonic

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Oct 12, 2009, 6:06:49 PM10/12/09
to
Babelfish.

There is a theory that in a parallel universe a composer named
Stockhausen wrote seven operas based on works by a novelist named
Douglas Adams. There is another theory that our universe is in fact
taking place within those operas.

P

Jerry

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Oct 12, 2009, 6:12:31 PM10/12/09
to

You are a Douglas Adams clone, AICMFP! (No, not *that* Babelfish,
silly!)

Mark Stratford

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Oct 13, 2009, 9:22:03 AM10/13/09
to

There's another KLANG world premiere tonight (in Belgium, coupled with
Kreuzspiel and some Kagel):


Karlheinz Stockhausen | KLANG - 12. Stunde: ERWACHEN (2007)
Uraufführung | für Violoncello, Trompete, Sopransaxophon

Pawlly Phonic

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Oct 13, 2009, 3:44:16 PM10/13/09
to
On Oct 13, 6:22 am, Mark Stratford <mark_stratfor...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

Anyone have an idea on the average lag between premieres and when they
get the recordings out? The Paradies CD was out after only a couple
months. I hope we can expect Schönheit and Erwachen before Christmas.

Paula

Jerry

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Oct 14, 2009, 1:58:00 AM10/14/09
to

I have no direct insight on this question, but I believe that
Hoffnung, Glanz, and Balance are already "in the can", as are at least
the flute and bass-clarinet versions of Harmonien (the solo piece on
which all seven trios are based). Perhaps the delay has to do with
coupling of pieces together on a single CD. Since all of the trios
last just over 30 minutes, it would make sense to group them in pairs:
Schönheit/Balance, Glück/Hoffnung, etc., and some of the members of
these pairs have not yet been performed, let alone recorded. (Of
course, this wouldn't come out even at the end, since there are seven
trios.) On the other hand, perhaps the idea is to release one of the
three versions of Harmonien with each of the first three trios? I
don't know the answer.

Pawlly Phonic

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Oct 14, 2009, 3:23:32 AM10/14/09
to
> Jerry Kohl <jeromek...@comcast.net>

> "Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

Gosh. Two pieces on the same Verlag CD? I hope you're right. Past
history makes me fear one 30-minute trio plus three "music-minus-one"
practice versions on a two-CD set.

Paula

Message has been deleted

Cleanhead

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Oct 14, 2009, 4:05:24 AM10/14/09
to
If my memory serves me right--and please correct me if I'm wrong!--I
believe the MITTWOCHS-GRUSS CD was actually released PRIOR to the
world première.

Mark Stratford

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Oct 14, 2009, 5:18:54 AM10/14/09
to

I think premiere was in Belfast at the time of his honorary doctorate
(and for the opening of that new electro venue). What was that 1994?
Yes - maybe it was released before that. Scarey how fast time goes....

Mark Stratford

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Oct 14, 2009, 7:28:17 AM10/14/09
to

By the way, next year there are two planned performances in UK of
CARRE:


18. 03. 2010 and 19. 03. 2010

University , Birmingham/GB
Stockhausen Karlheinz
Carré
scored: for 4 orchestras and 4 choirs (4 conductors)
Conductor: Jonty Harrison, Vic Hoyland, Lee Differ, Scott Wilson
Remarks: performers: University of Birmingham New Music, Ensemble with
BEAST and CEMPR

mark stratford

Nigel Curtis

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Oct 14, 2009, 9:21:24 AM10/14/09
to

> By the way, next year there are two planned performances in UK of
> CARRE:
> performers: University of Birmingham New Music, Ensemble with

These were the same guys who did Momente in 1998. Birmingham is the
home town of Ivor 'Ludovicus' Morgan. Hope the performers say nothing
to upset or antagonize him !

nc

Mark Stratford

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Oct 14, 2009, 9:52:38 AM10/14/09
to

> Two pieces on the same Verlag CD? I hope you're right. Past
> history makes me fear one 30-minute trio plus three "music-minus-one"
> practice versions on a two-CD set.
> Paula

Well some of the best value these days in with the DVDs. I mean look
at this for 25 Eur (..over three hours worth):

<ELDORADO (Choreography by Angelin Preljocaj of SONNTAGS-ABSCHIED)
colour film : Duration: ca. 189 minutes.
Contents: Ballet-Rehearsals before the world première (90’);
ELDORADO / SONNTAGS-ABSCHIED (42’)
Interview with Stockhausen on May 1st 2007 in Kuerten (ca. 52
minutes);
Stockhausen after the world première (3’)
>

Mark Stratford

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Oct 15, 2009, 5:49:34 AM10/15/09
to

Re: The Birmingham CARRE (March 2010): Yes Jonty Harrison is the guy
who did Momente with them, and conductor #4 Scott Wilson is also a
percussionist who regularly does Zyklus.

Can't wait ! I haven't seen CARRE done since Royal College of Music
did it in the 80s.


mark

Mark Stratford

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Oct 15, 2009, 7:12:49 AM10/15/09
to

There was a bit of a review of Erwachen premeiere- seems to be a set
of variations:

http://www.standaard.be/Artikel/Detail.aspx?artikelId=P02GLJAT&subsection=4

Jerry Kohl

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Oct 15, 2009, 6:10:02 PM10/15/09
to
On Oct 15, 4:12 am, Mark Stratford <mark_stratfor...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

> There was a bit of a review of Erwachen premeiere- seems to be a set
> of variations:
>
> http://www.standaard.be/Artikel/Detail.aspx?artikelId=P02GLJAT&subsec...

Thanks for the pointer, Mark. What the reviewer, Maarten Beirens, says
in the two relevant paragraphs is this:

: Stockhausen meanwhile turned out to be surprising.
: 'Erwachen', the twelfth part from his unfinished cycle
: 'Klang', is written for the unusual combination of soprano
: saxophone, trumpet, and cello. But on account of the
: clear, rectilinear construction it strikes one as very
: traditional. From a chorale-like beginning a sort of
: variation series unfolds, in which all the instruments
: illuminate a few obsessively repeated formulas, ever
: and again from different angles.
:
: It is not earth-shaking in itself, but the simplicity of
: the musical logic and the very transparent writing
: worked very effectively because it received such a
: phenomenal performance. Every note was set down
: with subtlety. Technical difficulties seemed non-existent.
: At moments the heterogeneous trio could indeed
: sound like a single instrument, and at a level that is
: seldom heard.

The 'sort of variation series' is an interesting perception, though it
would be misleading to claim the piece is a theme and variations. The
'obsessively repeated formulas' Beirens describes are the twenty-five
'loops' or 'ritornelli' drawn from Harmonien, and in fact each of the
three instruments presents each of these loops once (as well as the
twenty-five head-motives from which they are drawn). But the only
'variation' that occurs is the register and transposition of each
occurrence. On the other hand, these 'formulas' are all segments, from
three to seven notes long, of the 24-tone Klang row (in inversion),
and this row is built on a six-note pattern, so there are certainly
recurring interval sequences within the various loops.

Because Erwachen is basically a permutation of the five main sections
of Schönheit, as are the other trios from hours 6–12 (in Erwachen the
order is 2, 4, 3, 1, 5, compared to Schönheit), it might be more
accurate to regard the seven trios taken together as a set of seven
variation on one another.

The 'chorale-like beginning' is the series of four sustained chords
also heard in various places in the other trios (between sections 1
and 2 in Hoffnung, for example), and this is made from the first nine
notes of the Klang series. However, it is not true that the
'variations' literally unfold from this simple chord sequence.

I suspect that what Beirens is really reacting to when he describes
the piece as 'traditional sounding' is not so much the 'clear,
rectilinear construction' as the fact that there are frequent,
sustained consonant chords (mainly simple thirds, sometimes with one
of the notes doubled), occasional undisguised triadic figurations, and
some passages in parallel consonant intervals (sixths and fourths).

What he does not report (and I can hardly fault him for not being able
to detect this by ear) is that the three players are often in two or
even three different, independent tempi. This is probably the most
difficult aspect of performing the trios, but it is not something that
is readily apparent to the ear, unless you are listening especially
for it.

I should make clear that I have not yet heard this particular trio,
but I have heard three of the others and seen the scores for those
three and a fourth, and the pattern of relationships among all of the
trios is very clear.

--
Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net>

Nigel Curtis

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Oct 21, 2009, 11:00:08 AM10/21/09
to

> There's a complete translation of the Telemusik lecture here:
> http://www.stockhausen.org/Text-CD%2016_translation.pdf

There's also a PDF available by Jason Carroll Fick: (Pennsylvania
State University) called:

"Intermodulations: Musical Transformation and other Compositional
Techniques used in
Stockhausen’s Telemusik"

http://tinyurl.com/yjb5pah

nc

Jerry Kohl

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Oct 21, 2009, 1:25:30 PM10/21/09
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Thanks for pointing this out, Nigel. This is an undergraduate paper I
have seen before, but had forgotten about. (Another undergrad paper
from two years later can be found at <http://cosmal.ucsd.edu/arshia/
papers/Analysis%20of%20Telemusik.pdf>, though it seems to consist of
the PowerPoint slides used to illustrae the lecture, rather than the
text itself.). In the present context, it is frustrating in that Fick
does not actually specify exactly what the original material sounded
like before transformation, and at several points I suspect he thinks
he is listening to processed sounds when in fact the sounds are
unaltered (illustrations from the score would have been helpful, but
none are included). Of course in 2003, when this paper was written,
Stockhausen's Telemusik lecture had not yet been released, but there
were two rather important sources available by that date, one
published in 1999, the other in 2002 (one in German, the other in
English) that Fick fails to cite, and which would have given him a
much better basis from which to work.

The German article is by Johannes Fritsch, "Telemusik: Fragmente des
Verstehens", in Internationales Stockhausen-Symposion 1998, ed. by
Imke Misch and Christoph von Blumröder, Signale aus Köln 4
(Saarbrücken:Pfau-Verlag, 1999), 177–85, and the English item is my
own article, “Serial Composition, Serial Form, and Process in
Karlheinz Stockhausen's Telemusik,” chapter 5 of Electroacoustic
Music: Analytical Perspectives, ed. Thomas Licata (Westport, Conn. and
London: Greenwood Press, 2002), 91–118. (This is based on the third
chapter of my dissertation, which is cited in the other undergrad
paper, by Arshia Cont, mentioned above.)

Since then, one further, tremendously important German article has
appeared, which focuses quite a lot of attention on these
transformational processes, and this is Marcus Erbe, "Karlheinz
Stockhausens Telemusik (1966)", in Kompositorische Stationen des 20.
Jahrhunderts: Debussy, Webern, Messiaen, Boulez, Cage, Ligeti,
Stockhausen, Höller, Bayle, edited by Christoph von Blumröder and
Tobias Hünermann, Signale aus Köln 7 (Münster: Lit-Verlag, 2004), 129–
71.

More recently, an article has appeared which I have not yet seen, but
the abstract of which suggests may well focus on exactly this subject
of the transformations in Telemusik: Christian Utz, "Zur
kompositorischen Relevanz kultureller Differenz: Historische und
ästhetische Perspektiven", in Musik und Globalisierung: Zwischen
kultureller Homogenisierung und kultureller Differenz—Bericht des
Symposions an der Kunstuniversität Graz, 17.–18. Oktober 2006, edited
by Christian Utz and Otto Kolleritsch, Musiktheorien der Gegenwart 1
(Saarbrücken: Pfau-Verlag, 2007), 29–49.

Of course, for a brief introduction, there is always the Wikipedia
article on the piece:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telemusik>

--
Jerry Kohl

Mark Stratford

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Oct 23, 2009, 8:42:17 AM10/23/09
to

For anyone who’s interested - the following is a download from the
Kurten 2002 courses of Bill Forman (trumpet) playing SOLO (with
feedback).

About 37 Mb / 16 mins

https://www.yousendit.com/download/Z01PQk01MGtQb0pFQlE9PQ

mark stratford

Jerry Kohl

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Oct 23, 2009, 2:02:04 PM10/23/09
to
On Oct 23, 5:42 am, Mark Stratford <mark_stratfor...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

Thanks, Mark. I remember that concert quite well. The process was
clearer than in just about any other performance I have heard, though
perhaps that was because I had attended Bill Foreman's lecture-
demonstration and open rehearsal, and watched the screen of the
computer used to process the feedback loops. (Stockhausen's original
schemas in the 1960s for long tape loops are incredibly awkward in
practice so that once personal computers came on the scene, almost all
performances have used software emulations, and with Stockhausen's
blessings). On the other side, it seemed to me at the time to be
musically a bit on the didactic side. I look forward to the
opportunity to revisit this performance to see if my opinion has
changed in the meantime.

Jerry

Mark Stratford

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Oct 24, 2009, 2:32:38 PM10/24/09
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an interesting talk on Mantra (summer 09) by Robin Maconie

http://www.jimstonebraker.com/Mantra2.pdf

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