What do I do w/ my secular music??
Jonathan W. Pate
living in sin and listening to "secular" music and building up a
healthy library of CD's and albums, something great happens. You get
saved. Well that happened to me about a month ago. Since then I
haven't played one of my secular albums or CD's or listened to
rock stations. I have fallen in love (again) with CCM. I just
listened to the 77's for the first time yesterday and I was blown
away. Anyway my question is this. What did you do with your not so
Godly music when you got saved.
I know some people have burned thier entire collection. I also
realize from reading posts on this newsgroup that many of you
still listen to "secualar" music. To be honest, in my situation,
I feel like that once I start listening to that music again it will
be like going back to that old way of living. On the other hand
there is a lot good music out there and I invested a good amount of
money in my collection.
Any ideas, suggestions or encouragement would be appreciated.
thanx.
Rob Szarka
Jonathan W. Pate <joh...@infi.net> wrote:
>
>I know some people have burned thier entire collection. I also
>realize from reading posts on this newsgroup that many of you
>still listen to "secualar" music. To be honest, in my situation,
>I feel like that once I start listening to that music again it will
>be like going back to that old way of living. On the other hand
>there is a lot good music out there and I invested a good amount of
>money in my collection.
>
>Any ideas, suggestions or encouragement would be appreciated.
If you really feel as though listening to secular music isn't a great
idea for you right now, I'd suggest either (1) loaning it to a friend
for a year and seeing if you want it back later, or (2) selling it to
your friends for cheap--you'll make them happy and you can spend the
money on the forthcoming 77's reissues! :)
Shortly after I became a Christian, I decided to purge my collection
of all secular music (except, oddly, XTC's MUMMER and Thomas Dolby's
THE FLAT EARTH)--including a lot of mint condition Beatles imports
that I now wish I had... :( I sold it very cheap. Now, I wish I had
that music. I'm not sure it didn't do me some good at the time,
though. Hence my suggestion to leave it with a friend who wants to
listen to it..
--
Robert Szarka <mrn...@econs.umass.edu> Sea of Noise BBS +1 203 886 1441
"I'll say, 'I'm no ghost--touch me!' She'll say,
'You're tracking dust on the kitchen floor.'" -- DA
Home Page (under construction) http://twain.oit.umass.edu/~mrnoise/home.html
Ed Shuman
>away. Anyway my question is this. What did you do with your not so
>Godly music when you got saved.
>I know some people have burned thier entire collection. I also
>Any ideas, suggestions or encouragement would be appreciated.
>thanx.
I have never thought burning was a good idea-- I really don't think there's
anything intrinsically wrong with most secular music (some of it, yes,
but not most of it). You might consider:
Selling it on the net
Selling it at a garage sale (or something)
Giving it away on the net
Giving it away to friends who still like it
Giving it to Goodwill/Salvation Army or somewhere like that
Selling or trading it at a used music store
Greg Wilson
wrote:
> Any ideas, suggestions or encouragement would be appreciated.
> thanx.
Jon,
The first thing I'd do is pray about it, with some friends who aren't going
to offer a bunch of advice if possible. I'm not trying to sound pious, but
too often as Christians we act without seeking God, especially in these
kind of emotional situations. I've been where you are and listened to a
lot of other people's ideas about what I should do and didn't really get a
peace in my own mind from God. Too many Christians have burned or given
away records only to go out and buy the same music again later. If you
need to get them out of the house, I'll bet you've got friends or relatives
who'd store them for you. E-mail me if you want to discuss.
Greg
--
"Christianity has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found
difficult and left untried." G.K. Chesterton
Greg_...@quickmail.clemson.edu
Dan Hergott
I would recommend selling it if you have a real problem with it
or you could box them up and put them on the shelf and put them
away for a while. You may be able to listen to them one day
and enjoy them for the music they contain.
Dan Hergott
P.S. What ever you do don't burn them, environmentaly unfriendly
thing to do!
Dr. Demento
Ed Shuman <esh...@mik.uky.edu> wrote:
>In <3jojl5$m...@lucy.infi.net> joh...@infi.net (Jonathan W. Pate) writes:
>
>>away. Anyway my question is this. What did you do with your not so
>>Godly music when you got saved.
>
>
simply because you are now a Christian was a rash thing to do. That is,
it depends on what music you listened to before. :)
I think if you limit yourself to Christian music you *severely* hurt
yourself musically. Not all secular music is bad, you just have to
exercise a bit of common sense.
>Selling or trading it at a used music store
>
Now *this* is the best way to get rid of secular music. I mean, if I were
to sell my entire collection(not counting Christian music) at used CD
stores, I'd probably get around $500.
But I've been saved since I was, gosh...5 years old. I really came to
understand my Christianity around 11 or 12. I'm 25 now.
Just watch what you listen to.
Oh, and something along the same lines is listening to the radio. I think
that it's harder to talk to non-Christians about music and other things
if you don't have a common thread. For example, take this dialogue:
YOU: "You know, even if you're not a Christian, there's a lot of really good
Christian music you might like."
HIM: "I like REM, is there anything similar in Christian music?"
YOU: "You know, I really don't know, since I don't know what REM is like.
Are they rock?"
HIM: "Well, sorta--they play alternative."
YOU: "Oh. Well, PFR is alternative."
Said person then goes and listens to PFR, notices they don't sound anything
like REM, and not only doesn't listen to Christian music, but thinks you're
a doofus for recommending PFR to him.
I've gone round and round about this with friends before. They don't even
know who these secular artists are, and expect to relate to non-Christians.
I think music is an easy way to talk to people and get them to realize that
hey, you're like them, the only difference is that you have Jesus Christ
in your heart.
Just a few thoughts.
--
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179 2600 carts and counting...only 830 left! :)
Steve R. Grunau
>realize from reading posts on this newsgroup that many of you
>still listen to "secualar" music. To be honest, in my situation,
>I feel like that once I start listening to that music again it will
>be like going back to that old way of living. On the other hand
>there is a lot good music out there and I invested a good amount of
>money in my collection.
>
>Any ideas, suggestions or encouragement would be appreciated.
>thanx.
>
i know of alot of people that have destroyed their secular music after a
religious experience and they seem invariably to regret it later (oh, i
remember _that_ album, i used to have that, but i threw it out a few
years ago, gosh, i should pick that up again). possibly there is some
stuff you may want to get rid of (i don't know what's in your collection,
or more importantly, how it affects your relationship with christ).
however, if it reminds you of worldly living now, maybe what you need to
do is just put it away for a while, loan them to a friend, and later on
you may find you're ready to listen to them again.
on the other hand, you need to do what you feel is right, and far be it
from me to tell you what that is! good luck.
steve
sgr...@freenet.calgary.ab.ca
Paul DuBois
> religious experience and they seem invariably to regret it later (oh, i
> remember _that_ album, i used to have that, but i threw it out a few
> years ago, gosh, i should pick that up again).
I guess I am an exception, then. I've never regretted having done so.
--
Paul DuBois
dub...@primate.wisc.edu
"I'm going to learn worm-talk next," said Janetta -- Grandaddy's Place
Douglas C Pearson
>living in sin and listening to "secular" music and building up a
>healthy library of CD's and albums, something great happens. You get
>saved. Well that happened to me about a month ago. Since then I
>haven't played one of my secular albums or CD's or listened to
>rock stations. I have fallen in love (again) with CCM. I just
>listened to the 77's for the first time yesterday and I was blown
>away. Anyway my question is this. What did you do with your not so
>Godly music when you got saved.
this is a tough question, and i've answered it before, but i think i have a
better answer this time.
for me personally, i've kept most of my stuff. sold some that i didn't listen
to anymore, but kept most of it. as a general rule, i don't know of any albums
that i've trashed because i thought they were cool one day and vile and evil
the next...a couple of guys around here can testify to the fact that i still
listen and keep tabs with the more popular of the alt.bands, like pearl jam and
smashing pumpkins, even though the lyrics tend towards nihilstic, because the
jams are so incredible.
for example, i was listening to a melissa etheridge album (the first one,
self-titled) this morning. this woman, if you believe the words that she
sings, has been screwed over in every type of destructive relationship
possible, and she keeps going back into destructive relationships for more.
that is not a lifestyle that i would recommend. but her anguish and
her pain make for some really soaring music. "like the way i do" is simply an
incredible song, and the vocals reach their climax when melissa is obviously
gotten worked up to her angriest.
now, i've become able to look past that anger at the singer's latest lover for
screwing her over, and see that this is what happens when a person looks to
human sexual relationships for all his/her satisfaction. the only true
satisfaction in life can come from a relationship with God. all other forms of
satisfaction are fleeting. cathy nieng has been making a similar argument for
her like of nine inch nails, that trent reznor's music is so nihilistic and so
angry at God it's virtual proof of His existence. (your mileage on that
argument may vary. personally, nin just grates on my ears.)
like i said, all of this is my opinion. i have a dear friend who one night got
rid of all his really bad music (ac/dc et. al.) because it was wrecking his
relationship with God so bad. it was an obedience thing, and i think God
honored him for that. i have never gotten to a position where music has gotten
between me and God. (it's always been other stuff. it may be music one of
these days, and i must admit if that happens, i don't know what i'll do.) the
whole issue comes down to whether you are obeying God or not.
whatever the case, know that God only wants to bless you, not to curse you. if
He has a law or a command, He has a reason for it, and it's for your benefit.
(and that goes for _all_ of us, myself included.)
chuck
--
"clueless chuck" aka douglas c pearson jr -- dope...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
osu biophysics program -- t -1 month until daddyhood!!
i'dratherbeaprisonerofYourlovethantobethechampionofmydoubt--richmullins
ROCKER777
average of about 5 bucks cash for each piece. There are many stores like
this springing up all over the country. Look in your phone book.
I then reinvested the money in quality CCM recordings. A good used source
for these is C.D.M. 4051 Berrywood Dr. Santa Maria, CA 93455-3342. Write
for a free catalog.
John Bullough
Jonathan,
I am glad that you are now walking with Jesus. I am no expert on
your situation, but here's one way to look at it:
If "secular" music is somehow morally wrong (i.e. sinful), consider
just throwing them away. Would you hang onto a pile of old Playboy
magazines you had collected in your wayward youth? Even the
collector's edition Vanessa Williams one that might be worth money?
If this is where you stand, selling (or even giving away) your albums
probably isn't a good idea.
If you don't feel like "secular" music is morally wrong, but you
just aren't into your albums anymore, that's cool - there are probably
plenty of people who are into them, and you could either give or sell
them to people.
If you still feel like you do like your albums, hang onto them. Talk
to your Christian friends, your priest or minister, etc. about how you
feel, *don't* let them make a decision for you, and think about it.
I guarantee that a record collection will not be cause for barring
from the gates of heaven. But take time to really think and pray about
it, and make a decision you and your conscience can live with.
I am of the school that music does not have to be performed and written
by a Christian artist to be edifying, nor do I feel that all music
composed and performed by Christians is edifying. I like music that
is thoughtful, challenging, and has a good beat. :) Others feel
differently. I have no major problems having Suzanne Vega (a Buddhist)
and Kim Hill (a Christian) tapes lying side-by-side in a box. But
it's for you to decide with God.
I hope that you come up with a decision that draws you closer to Jesus.
Peace,
John
P.S. If you decide to get rid of your collection, send them to the
following address:
John Bullough
577 Co... just kidding! :)
--
John Bullough, Research Associate TEL: (518) 276-8717
Lighting Research Center FAX: (518) 276-4835
School of Architecture EMAIL: bul...@rpi.edu
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute WWW: http://www.rpi.edu/~bulloj
jon madison
> >Has anybody else ran into the following situation? After years of
> >living in sin and listening to "secular" music and building up a
> >healthy library of CD's and albums, something great happens. You get
> >saved. Well that happened to me about a month ago. Since then I
> >haven't played one of my secular albums or CD's or listened to
> >rock stations. I have fallen in love (again) with CCM. I just
> >listened to the 77's for the first time yesterday and I was blown
> >away. Anyway my question is this. What did you do with your not so
> >Godly music when you got saved.
feel too comfortable selling, so i just trashed them.
hopefully it's not just the 'music' your falling in love
with, but more & more the Savior we sing to & for.
i'm not saying that what i did is the example to follow;
if you're sincere w/ God, he's faithful to help you w/your
situation.
j.
Holy Soldja
remember, if you don't want it to be a part of yours, would you want
it to be a part of someone else's?
Marco
--
Who says being a man of God isn't fun?
Not only is it fun...it's power.
Stephanie Boardman
totally corrupt your mind. As a Christian you are allowed to have
interests that aren't necessarily in the church. There are plenty
of musicians out there who aren't Christians that proclaim beautiful
messages and ideas. We don't need to abandon these people and their
ideas just because they aren't Christians. Where would you, I, or
any Christian be if some Christian had ignored us because we weren't
like them at some point? There is some music I don't think
Christians should be listening to - death metal, lots of rap that
promotes violence and portrays women (or men) as sex objects, and
stuff like that. I think basically as Christians we have judgement
calls to make, but we definitely don't need to just cut out secular
music as a whole. It's not fair to judge so generally. But, hey!
This is all just my opinion!
Write me back if you want, but the best address to use for me is:
Ste...@eworld.com
'Til another day,
Steffi
Danl Blackwood
Same thing happened to me 8 years ago. I just stopped listening to secular
music (including radio). I was blessed to live in a city that has a great
Christian radio station (KTLI-FM 99.1 Light 99). It wasn't that I stopped
listening to other music so much as I was consumed by all the cool
Christian music I'd never heard before. Like you, I had a pretty healthy
collection of secular records/tapes/CDs. I also had another situation. I
was an alcoholic and professional musician playing secular music. I just
stopped it all, moved to another city (to get a real job, as my
grandmother called it), and kinda started over. God was leading all the
way. I didn't trash everything, I just kept in my basement. I even gave
some of my equipment (microphones, mixer, etc. and sold the rest) to my
church. It was real wierd singing solos at church on a microphone that
still had lipstick stains on it from my ex-wife, but God made it right.
Finally about a year ago, I was playing my guitar and a friend's house (my
family had been invited over for dinner and just to hang out). We started
playing some old Eagles, and Crosby, Stills, and Nash, and James Taylor.
It was a blast. It was almost as if God was saying to me, "I never said
you had to give up your whole life, in fact I want you to be *in* the
world, just don't be *of* the world. Now I even listen to other radio
stations once in a while, but the bottom line ... there is nothing like
our Christian music today. I believe that the best music out there,
regardless, is our Christian music! So now I listen to everything, but I
still like the best, and that means that I'm only listening to secular
music about ten percent of the time. God bless your journey, johnny! Just
remember, what ever you do God loves you just the way you are. You are
guilty, but as long as you live for Him, repent, and claim Jesus as your
Savior, then He sees you through blood-stained glasses, and you're His
child. We all still screw up, but we must keep seeking His face.
________________________________________________________
|| / \\ ||\\ Danl Blackwood / AOL: PI Desktop \
|| \\_/ ||// Mac Sys Admin / BBS: 316-268-0192 \
||__ / \\ ||\\ Printing Inc / VoxMail: 316-681-7662 \
\\-- \\_/ || \\ Wichita, KS / Net: sca...@tyrell.net /
---------------------------------------------------------/
The stuff of earth competes for the allegiance I owe only
to the Giver of all good things . . . Rich Mullins
sxp...@hertz.njit.edu
Christ tells us to put off the "old man". Put aside your past. By giving
them to someone, you are encouraging them to lead the life you left behind.
I hope things work out for you. There are really a lot of good christian
bands out there... find them.
Paul DuBois
> I think listening to secular music is fine as long as it doesn't
> totally corrupt your mind. As a Christian you are allowed to have
Partial corruption is okay, then?
J. Streck
>I know some people have burned thier entire collection. I also
>realize from reading posts on this newsgroup that many of you
>still listen to "secualar" music. To be honest, in my situation,
>I feel like that once I start listening to that music again it will
>be like going back to that old way of living. On the other hand
>there is a lot good music out there and I invested a good amount of
>money in my collection.
Well, I wouldn't recommend burning it. My suggestion would be to simply
set it aside for awhile and forget about it; stick your albums in a closet or
something. Based on experience, my guess is that eventually you will reach
a point where you will be able to listen to your old albums without
worrying about going back to your old way of living -- and you'll probably
want to. I know a lot of people who went through exactly what you're
going through and *did* throw away their "secular" music. A few years
later most were replacing the very albums they'd given away.
john streck
jst...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu
CraigAtSMC
to, because I was really getting into Christian music, I figured this was
a waste, so, I took my entire Secular collection down to the local CD
store, and traded them for cash. They got a lot of popular CDs, I got a
lot of cash to buy more Christian stuff, which I did, that very same
day!!!
- Craig
Jeroen J-W Tiggelman
Stephanie Boardman <7227...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>I think listening to secular music is fine as long as it doesn't
>totally corrupt your mind. As a Christian you are allowed to have
Scrap "totally"?
>Christians should be listening to - death metal, lots of rap that
>promotes violence and portrays women (or men) as sex objects, and
>stuff like that. I think basically as Christians we have judgement
???? I don't see the relation between "death metal" and "lots of rap
that promotes violence [...]". Do you think metal (or at least death
metal) promotes violence???
>Write me back if you want, but the best address to use for me is:
>Ste...@eworld.com
Okay, you'll get an email copy. :)
--
--Jeroen------------------------------------------------------
Tigg...@StPC.WI.LeidenUniv.NL JTig...@WI.LeidenUniv.NL
clarkcr
: Any ideas, suggestions or encouragement would be appreciated.
Sell it. Either here or at a store which buys used CD's, tapes, records...
peace,
Cat
Lane T. Denson
have only found a handful of Christian artists who are worth my money and
time; but I LOVE music - it's my job! I listen to the local CCM station
(88.7 in Nashville, TN), and all I hear is second-rate homogenized
music. I realize that the message is the important thing, and that these
people have worked hard, but it just doesn't appeal to me. I am not a
"lyric" listener - I am much more into the music side, and frankly,
that's CCM's weak point. If there were equivalents to Stevie Wonder,
Eric Clapton, James Taylor, Prince, James Brown, etc. in Christian music,
I'd buy it. But I can't afford to waste my money trying to find that,
and I really don't want to. Just because an artists doesn't hit you over
the head with a religious message doesn't make them evil. Stevie Wonder
and James Taylor especially sing very positive and uplifting songs. I
see nothing wrong with listening to and enjoying that music. I mean, God
gave them their talent, why not appreciate it even if it's not labeled
Christian music? What makes it Christian? Just because someone decided
it crossed over the line from what's considered secular?
Darren Aitcheson
>thanx.
>
Do whatever you feel is right for you - if that involves getting rid of
(not necessarily by burning!) your secular collection, then so be it. If
you feel it'll be a stumbling block for you, then get rid of it.
However, don't believe anybody who tells you secular music is satanic! As you've
seen, there are many on this newsgroup who can listen to 'secular' (ugh) music
and be as Godly as the rest of us.
Think about it and pray about it, then make your own mind up.
Darren Aitcheson,
Kainos Software Ltd.,
Belfast, N.Ireland.
Ed Rock
I've debated as to whether to join this thread or not. I waited to see
if everything I had to say has been said, and I decided to add my own
little testimony concerning getting rid of the old secular stuff.
In my case, I went through the sacriment of trashing my "secular" music
back in 1980. Looking back, I'd have to say I did it more to please my
friends, than to please God. I'd also have to say that the idea of
contributing to my own salvation played a not too minor part as well. My
friends and I had a shakey understanding of Grace. We felt that we could
not be Christians *and* have our old music. So, one night in January of
1980, we took my considerable collection of lp's, 45's, and cassettes and
trashed them. We broke the records and stretched the tapes all over my
dorm room (and down the hall for the tapes), much to the horror of my
"secular" friends in the dorm. (They were now even more convinced that I
had joined a cult and that Kool-Aide was just around the corner. I'm not
sure my witness ever bridged the gap I made in some relationships by this
very act.)
Having said that, I honestly have not regretted the decision. At the
time, I felt like God was leading me to do it. Maybe He was. Maybe He
wasn't. I don't think that really matters now. My heart was honestly to
serve Him (and still is--even more). I can tell you this. It helped me
become judgemental of those people who had not taken this step of faith.
It also gave me a sense of spiritual pride. It's not that the action
itself caused this, but I reacted wrongly. It's something to be wary of
if you decide to take the plunge.
I decided to trash the stuff because, as others have mentioned, I felt I
did not want to contribute to anyone else's down fall--noble, eh? I
didn't want to sell them and buy Christian stuff for two reasons. One,
was back to the contributing to downfall aurgument. Two, was that I felt
the money was "dirty money." Since I really felt God was leading me to
give this up, I saw no need for financial gain. I was, and am, opposed
to the give things up for God so He can *give* you more. I gave the
stuff up because I felt like He said to, end of aurgument.
Well, time went by. As I said, I have not regretted doing it. Somehow,
God honored it as an act of obedience in a young believer's life. A few
of the records I trashed have been replaced. Many have not. Those that
have not been replaced, have not due to a maturing of my musical taste
(some would loudly aurgue against that point). However, my collection is
probably about 60-40 secular-Christian (by standard terms of
measurement). A large part of the secular stuff I have is done by either
believers or great truth seekers, and how can we truly call that
secular? Some other stuff, though, I have jsut because I like it.
To believe that any given music can impede your growth as a Christian
tends to limit the power of God--which is without limit. As the World
Action Singers used to sing, "Greater is He that is in me, than he that
is in the world. God is greater." The Bible says that the work God has
begun in you, He will be faithful to complete, and I don't think that can
be stopped by Billy Idol or Trent Reznor--at least in the long run.
What can impede this work would be an attitude that says, "I don't care
what God wants, I'm keeping my music." Thus, which impedes the work of
God, "secular" music or our attitude toward God? If you're honestly
seeking God, He may or may not tell you to let certain things go. He may
or may not allow you to pick them back up again. But let Him do it.
Don't let your friends dictate their own understanding of the formula to
follow God.
Of the friends who were so instumental in my trashing of music, few of
them are still serving God today.
Probably some of what I've said sounds like I'm on both sides of the
issue with a firm as Jell-O stand for keeping the "secular" stuff, but I
think the impratant thing is to put God first and keep Him there. The
rest, I am confident, will fall into place.
Just a little to think about.
Ed Rock | They'll know we are Christians
aka Ed Crabtree | by the boycotts we enact.
ercr...@email.unc.edu |
Jo mamah
and have listened exclusively to CCM continuously since. I have been
thinking alot about what to do with all those other CDs sitting on the
shelf.
The Bible says that ANYTHING not done in faith is sin. That statement
really turns up the heat on us doesn't it?. Paul writes in Romans that
we are to offer ourselves as a living and holy sacrifice. The Christian
walk of obedience is our reponse to being given the free gift of eternal
life. We are not accepted by God based on our obedience. Obedience is an
act of gratitude for already having been accepted. So this decision is
not about what we are restricted from, but rather(if we are God centered)
what can I do for God to please him(acting in faith)?
I like the parable of the pearl of great value in Matt 13. We should
be willing to trade everything for our new life.
I guess you have helped me decide what to do. Joshua 24:15
Thanks for your post
Phil
Edwin Walter
: Any ideas, suggestions or encouragement would be appreciated.
Enjoy it, if you can.
Sell it, if you can't.
Edwin
Noel Estabrook
Walter) wrote:
If one feels that secular music does not belong in their life, I think
it's a bad idea to sell it, IMO. If one decides to get rid of it (as I
did, trashed an awesome 300 album collection about 7 years ago, bootleg
zep, everything zep ever did, Rush, Boston, you name it), then one does so
because they feel secular music is, yes, evil (to them anyway) or bad. To
then turn around and sell it (to that person who decided to get rid of it)
would be deliberately placing something evil (or bad) into someone else's
hands. I'd destroy them.
When I quit dealing drugs, I didn't sell the last ounce I had, I flushed
it down the toilet.
--
Noel Estabrook - MSU | When I get real bored, I like to drive
Instructional Design & Tech --|-- downtown and get a great parking spot,
514B Erickson Hall | then sit in my car and count how many
no...@msu.edu | people ask me if I'm leaving.
Jacqueline Kowtko
>>
>> Has anybody else ran into the following situation? After years of
>> living in sin and listening to "secular" music and building up a
>> healthy library of CD's and albums, something great happens. You get
>> saved. Well that happened to me about a month ago. Since then I
>> haven't played one of my secular albums or CD's or listened to
>> Godly music when you got saved.
I kept the four albums that I had. Can't find them now...
If you sell the albums by the most godless artists then you'll
have some money to buy music by Christian artists. :-)
--
Jacqueline Kowtko University of Edinburgh, Scotland
Mary P. Hane
Just wanted to tell you what I did with my music (and what others
have done with theirs). Well, most of mine wasn't really bad stuff, so I
just put it up in my closet. I spent a few years listening only to
Christian stuff until I felt like I was on track...then I pulled down my
old stuff and decided what to do. Some of it wasn't really that bad,
didn't pull me down, so I still enjoy it. Other albums I just didn't feel
comfortable with (I might have before I stopped listening to them), so I
don't listen to them anymore...they're sitting at home collecting dust.
One of my friends decided to sell hers to a music place that buys
used stuff. Now she regrets selling a few of them because they were
really good music that wouldn't have gotten her off focus. However, I do
think it was a good decision for her. Another of my friends took all of
his secular stuff to school and gave it away. People asked him why he
didn't want it, and it was a great chance for him to witness.
The more I listen to all types of Christian music, the more I
realize I really don't need the secular stuff (except a couple of
favorites I just adore). So, you might just want to explore the
Christian options and not mess with the secular stuff for a while.
Before you know it, you really don't want it anyway.
God Bless, and welcome to the family!
Mary Porcher
Dreamweaver
>I kept the four albums that I had. Can't find them now...
>If you sell the albums by the most godless artists then you'll
>have some money to buy music by Christian artists. :-)
Sorry to be picky - but how can you have 'a most godless artist'. Somebody
either knows God or they don't. And what enables you to judge how 'Godful' a
person is anyway?
Just being pedantic
John
hhe...@ucsd.edu
> One of my friends decided to sell hers to a music place that buys
> used stuff. Now she regrets selling a few of them because they were
> really good music that wouldn't have gotten her off focus. However, I do
> think it was a good decision for her. Another of my friends took all of
> his secular stuff to school and gave it away. People asked him why he
> didn't want it, and it was a great chance for him to witness.
>
Here's one of my favorite stories regarding what Christians do with their
"secular" music. A friend of mine became a Christian in the late '70s. He
was really into heavy metal, especially Black Sabbath. Well, at the Church
he attended they had a rock and roll record-smashing party. He brought all
his evil music to this party and destroyed it. He later regretted what he
had done and went out and bought all of it again. When another ceremony
was held, he felt remorse and destroyed the records again. Finally, he
came to his senses and bought the records for a third time. Nowadays, he
plays in a Christian band and is one of the best rock guitarists in San
Diego.
Shaun Hervey
hhe...@ucsd.edu
> The Bible says that ANYTHING not done in faith is sin. That statement
> really turns up the heat on us doesn't it?.
[I've abbreviated the above post considerably]
Before you start getting rid of your "secular" music, read through Romans
14:13-23. I agree that some music might be a stumbling block for you, but
what is a sin for one person may not be for another.
Jacqueline Kowtko
How obvious must a SMILEY FACE be for people to notice it??!??
Michael A. Vickers
the records again. Finally, he came to his senses and bought the
records for a third time. Nowadays, he plays in a Christian band
and is one of the best rock guitarists in San Diego.>>
This has to be an Al Menconi thing (in his younger days), huh?
Anyways, who is this guy? I'd like to listen to him is he's one
of the best in SD.
Michael
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Michael A. Vickers |vic...@priacc.com/mv...@aol.com
| 74771...@compuserve.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
IT'S NOT MY FAULT.. I'M JUST REALLY BORED.. AGAIN.
i tend to do something really wierd:
LISTEN to IT!
(you know, with the cd player or something?)
bryan holroyd
the long haired punk boy...
Floyd Turbo
>From: Stephanie Boardman <7227...@CompuServe.COM>
>Subject: Re: What do I do w/ my secular music??
>Date: 11 Mar 1995 03:58:36 GMT
>'Til another day,
>Steffi
In Corinthians, (don't remember where) It says we should take everything
into captivity that exalts itself above the knowledge of God. So you have to
be careful. You have to make sure that what you listen to, no matter how
nice it seems, doesn't go against the word of God. Putting your secular
music to this test will show results that you don't want. You'll find that
almost all your secular music sets itself up against the knowledge of God. I
struggle like crazy with this because there is so much music I love, but I
refuse to listen to it anymore. Man this stuff will stunt your growth. You
have to get away from it. Once you start to separate yourself from that
music, you will see the difference. This may sound like nonsense but do not
underestimate the power that music possesses, be it good or bad.
-Floyd
Pgm Fi2
can enjoy them, sell them and buy something you will enjoy. If you like
secular music, don't stop listening to it because it's not christian. If
you applied the narrow thinking plauging most christians in refrence to
music to general social interaction, you'd lock yourself in your house and
only go out for church once a week. that's pretty lame, and so is not
listening to music you enjoy and do not have a conflict with merely
because it's not Christian. If you don't want it anymore, you're welcome
to send it to me.
-Daniel
8)
Pgm Fi2
totally corrupt your mind.
I agree, but if listening to music corrupts your mind, you didn't have
much of a mind to start with. If you find your beliefs in conflict with
your music to the extent that you do not enjoy it anymore, then get rid of
it. I listen to plenty of non-christian bands, and I simply understand
that the bands belief is different than mine. It's just like being with
the unsaved, your beliefs differ, but that doesn't mean you can't be
around them.
-Daniel
8)
(currently listening to a secular compilation, and my brain is not
corrupted)
Steven M. Hutson
by all means, don't! I went through a period where I didn't feel I
should be listening to it. A few of my friends went through this also.
Maybe God was using that time to allow me to grow and mature a bit until
He thought I could handle it. This lasted about 3 years. Finally I felt
I could handle it, so I began to buy secular albums again. However, I
listen to it first to make sure that the album does not go blatantly
against my beliefs. Just another personal conviction for me. If it's
full of cuss words, I won't buy it. Also, if it glorifies loose sex or
what not, I won't buy it. I love the music of STP, but because of a lot
of what they have to say, I don't feel I should buy it. Same thing with
Greenday. Anyway, that's just how I feel.
Steve
Rob Martino
>From article <3jr75c$7g5$1...@mhade.production.compuserve.com>, by Stephanie Boardman <7227...@CompuServe.COM>:
>> I think listening to secular music is fine as long as it doesn't
>> totally corrupt your mind. As a Christian you are allowed to have
>> interests that aren't necessarily in the church...
>
>Partial corruption is okay, then?
I have a questions about this topic:
What makes music by non-Christians inherently evil?
Maybe I look at music differently than most, but I see it
as an art form. I don't listen to the radio because I
don't like mainstream or popular music, secular or Christian.
I'm into classical music and progressive rock, music that is
artistically oriented and not geared towards selling a lot
of records. Music you listen to actively, which you concentrate
on to appreciate, doesn't always grab you first listen with a catchy hook,
music with subtlety and which is crafted rather than produced
with generic and cliche pop chord progression formulas.
Sure, many crap secular bands have bad messages (any type of
group featured in Rolling Stone it seems) and maybe that is
where many Christians get the idea that all secular music
is bad for you to listen to, but what about
musicians whose focus is to create art rather than sell
records and have a trendy image or philosposhy? I often
wonder if many people actually think of music in this sense.
As a musician I find artistic music to be much more inspiring
and satisfying than cheesy pop with Christian lyrics.
One of the most frustrating things for me to see is that
most people probably aren't even aware of how good music
could be, because they are exposed to nothing but mainstream
popular music, whatever is "hip" at the time. I wonder
if an ever-increasing "instant gratification" societal mindset has something to
do with it...if a song doesn't grab you first listen, doesn't
require you to invest time to explore it and understand it,
then don't play it on the radio, go for the catchy riff and
chorus. Fast food music. I was blown away the first time I understood that a
song doesn't have to have a chorus or repeatable riff or be more than
five minutes long.
When I go to a Chrisitan bookstore all I seem to see is
mainstream style music with people in trendy poses on the
CD covers. If I look at my CD collection at home (hardly
any "Christian" music, in the CCM sense) it looks more like an art gallery,
CD covers with beautiful landscapes, abstract art, relating
to the artistic focus of the music. No "I'm a tough guy" hard rockers
with big hair or pictures of the musicians in hip poses all over the
place. I think just this tells you something about the
artists attitute and artistic focus. Christian music seems to be
trying to emulate the mainstream, which is mostly shallow art
in the first place. Either people don't realize this becuase
they are never exposed to anything else or don't care.
Is it even possible to spead the Word through artistic music?
Bach and Handel could do it...nowadays art doesn't seem to sell,
so it seems Chrisitans have to make compromises to spread
their message, or worse, don't even know how much better music
can be, all they've been exposed to is "fast-food" music.
My recommendation: go out and buy Echolyn's As the World. I'm
not sure if they are Christians but there aren't any "bad messages"
lyrics to corrupt anyone, actually there is even a song about C.S.
Lewis' Screwtape letters called "My Dear Wormwood". Now there
is a band I respect highly. Music you can call art!
Then again, maybe I just have a unique taste in music and all these
comments are subjective and irrelavent! :) But the more I study music
and understand it as an art form, the more I think not....
Whew...sorry for the long-windedness. :)
Rob
--
Rob Martino
Cabletron Systems, Inc.
Rochester, New Hampshire, USA
Dan Temmesfeld
>From: dub...@primate.wisc.edu (Paul DuBois)
>Subject: Re: What do I do w/ my secular music??
>From article <3jr75c$7g5$1...@mhade.production.compuserve.com>, by Stephanie Boardman <7227...@CompuServe.COM>:
>> I think listening to secular music is fine as long as it doesn't
>> totally corrupt your mind. As a Christian you are allowed to have
>> interests that aren't necessarily in the church...
>Partial corruption is okay, then?
"Secular" music doesn't have to corrupt your mind at all...
It matters how you take it. For that matter, "Christian" music can corrupt
the mind...
>Paul DuBois
Dan
Tom Moellering
>>I think listening to secular music is fine as long as it doesn't
>totally corrupt your mind.
Well as someone who has definitely "been there" on this one, let me give
you my perspective/point-of-view, and you can do with it what you want:
At the ripe old age of 13 I became painfully aware of my sinful nature.
Fortunately for me, I also became aware of Christ's atonement and offer
of a personal relationship.
After that I started to find that the music I was listening to was not
giving me any peace, but instead was keeping me awake at night. I guess
you can say that I had never really experienced peace before. So I stuck
my "secular" albums in my closet. However I felt something was missing.
I had been raised with the radio on all the time, and really missed the music.
My mom was "saved" at about the same time and began taping/listening to a
radio preacher. He was pretty much our only truely biblical contact, and
besides reading it ourselves, which we were doing now for the first time ever
in our lives. So we started buying his records And I found for the first
time a religious connection with music. That much more could be expressed
through music than just what I had heard on "secular" top 40 radio all of my
life. The preacher was of course Jimmy Swaggart.
When I was 16 I finally came into contact with some other "saved" youth
and found out there was actually even a greater range of musical expression
than I had been exposed to. I still remember fondly my first hearing
of 8 tracks of Larry Norman, JC Power Outlet, Phil Keaggy, Truth, The Imperials
and of course Resurrection Band.
At this point I pretty much ditched the Jimmy Swaggart stuff, since it was fine
but it didn't involve the majority of the other styles of music I needed.
Since then I have been a quite avid follower of CCM (particularly its heavier
strains).
I don't go much by the distributor label on the outside of the package anymore.
I have finally matured to a place where I try to listen to my heart, and if
the music/lyrics does not challenge me to think, and/or cause me new revelations
of Christ, I just don't find the time to listen to it. I find quite
a bit of edification in the following "secular-label" artists: Victoria Williams,
The Call, Vigilantes Of Love, U2, The Innocence Mission. Not to mention what
I get out of these guys, too: Da, Adam Again, 77's, The Choir, Michael Knott,
etc. (just to mention a very small subset)
>I agree, but if listening to music corrupts your mind, you didn't have
>much of a mind to start with. If you find your beliefs in conflict with
>your music to the extent that you do not enjoy it anymore, then get rid of
>it. I listen to plenty of non-christian bands, and I simply understand
>that the bands belief is different than mine. It's just like being with
>the unsaved, your beliefs differ, but that doesn't mean you can't be
>around them.
Fine for you, Mr. Strong-Christian-Man! But as for the rest of us weaklings,
I just have one word: love. If you think by your snob appeal you can justify
your appetites think again. Read what Paul has to say about that meat offered
to idols man. Nope, you are right of course, them idols ain't nothing. But
Paul said he would eat no meat while the world would stand if it would cause
his brother to stumble. Be careful about trying to embolden us weak-minded
ones.
>-Daniel
>8)
>
>(currently listening to a secular compilation, and my brain is not
>corrupted)
Nope, but, sorry to say, your attitude is.
Tom Moellering (tmoe...@spd.dsccc.com) (214-519-2942)
**** DSC's address, *my* opinions. ****
Dreamweaver
>Subject: Re: What do I do w/ my secular music??
>Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995 13:31:08 GMT
I noticed the smiley face - I just find it amusing that a lot of people see
stages of 'godlessness'. Maybe I should have put a smiley face on the end of
mine as well. It was all said in humour - honest
Peace
John
Dreamweaver
>From: jsc...@nic.smsu.edu (Floyd Turbo)
>Subject: Re: What do I do w/ my secular music??
Hey lets not restrict this passage to music - it applies to all things!
> Putting your secular
>music to this test will show results that you don't want.
Wrong - it may show results that you don't want - there is a lot of great,
uplifting, spiritually edifying 'secular' music out there. Just what do you
mean by 'secular' anyway?
>You'll find that
>almost all your secular music sets itself up against the knowledge of God. I
>struggle like crazy with this because there is so much music I love, but I
>refuse to listen to it anymore.
That's your decision. Taking this to it's logical conclusion - if you use
this verse to refer to everything (which it does - it certainly doesn't
specify music) then you shouldn't listen to your non-christian friends and
should lock yourself up in a little airtight box cosily safe from the world
around you, but unfortunately not making any impact on it either. I presume
from what you have written that you only read christian books, only watch
christian films, only look at christian art and only converse with christians
- otherwise you are being very hypocritical!
>Man this stuff will stunt your growth. You
>have to get away from it.
Says who? It may stunt your growth - but I have a brain which I can use to
understand music without taking in any particular message. It's a biblical
concept that it is not what goes IN to a person that makes them unpure, but
what comes OUT. Too much weight is given to the erroneous assumption that the
music that goes IN is bad - that is NOT biblical. I have to add that a lot of
CCM is also completely unbiblical and does more harm than good - distorting
people's theology.
>Once you start to separate yourself from that
>music, you will see the difference.
Yes - I tried and became very miserable since I found there was no decent
music left that I could relate to. You might be able to relate to a song that
has a high 'Jesus words per minute' count, but I certainly can't. CCM has a
knack of oversimplifying the gospel, condensing it down to something like
'Everything's wonderful, let's praise the Lord'. I'm sorry but it's complete
crap. Give me a CCM song that is deep, artistically deep, spiritually moving,
and doesn't try to con you that everything is great and you'll have an
argument. Look at the psalms - most of these are the psalmster (probably
David) and his struggles and feelings that God just isn't there and doesn't
care - and those were songs TO God. CCM shouldn't be about 'songs to God' -
it's songs for us - therefore it doesn't have to have a God content.
Everything is God inspired - there is nothing in this world that God's hand is
not in - so why do we rate our music on how well a song preaches the gospel.
I certainly don't need to be preached at!!
>This may sound like nonsense but do not
>underestimate the power that music possesses, be it good or bad.
Yes it is nonsense - music doesn't possess anything - it is an inanimate
thing. It cannot have any power. It is just a series of pleasant noises that
your brain interrprets. IF you have problems with so called 'secular' music
it suggests that you are a young christian who hasn't sorted things out in
their head yet. That's fine - but don't start quoting your own views as
gospel truth!!
Just a thought
Peace
John
Mytho-X
Now, it matters if it is a band like Weezer compared to a band
like Nine Inch Nails which is obviously not music for ANY Christian to
seriously listen to.
Ryan
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ryan Sager | Editor of LiNeNoIsE Christian Alternative Music E-Zine
E-Mail : rsa...@liberty.liberty.com / line...@prism.com
Steve Elliott
which seems relevant to this subject.
In Germay, 4 months after Hitler had been elected chancellor, the Nazis
collected 20,000 books as 'anti-German' and had a large bonfire
in the centre of Berlin.
Apparently the legacy of this act still lives on amongst Germans.
Steve
--
s...@uk.ac.lancs.comp
Department of Computing, SECaMS Building,
University of Lancaster, Bailrigg, Lancaster, LA1 4YR, UK
PHONE: +44 524 593783.
Rick Brooks
the stuff I was listening to was bringing me down. I got rid of about 14 of
the more vulgar or raunchy or whatever stuff. I only listened to Christian
stuff for awhile and then realized that not all secular stuff was bad.
Since then I have made a balance between my secular and sacred music. I think
God was trying to teach me this balance when I was feeling convicted about my
music.
Clive
such a great article, that it doesn't need much addendum..
: Maybe I look at music differently than most, but I see it
: as an art form. I don't listen to the radio because I
: don't like mainstream or popular music, secular or Christian.
i happen to agree... i have enough great music, that i don't need to
listen to the radio to see what's popular.. i don't care if i'm
the only person in the world who buys the albums i do.. most of
what i like is at least in some sense artistic (have a few skeletons
in the closet though.. :) , based on it's artistic merits... popular
'secular music'(tm) is mostly awful.. popular 'christian music'(tm)
is mostly bad populatr 'secular music'(tm)
: I'm into classical music and progressive rock, music that is
: artistically oriented and not geared towards selling a lot
: of records. Music you listen to actively, which you concentrate
: on to appreciate, doesn't always grab you first listen with a catchy hook,
: music with subtlety and which is crafted rather than produced
: with generic and cliche pop chord progression formulas.
yes yes yes yes yes yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
i like progressive rock a lot, music virtually all played by bands
not on CCM labels.. in fact some can only be found in specialist mail
order places.. prog rock is more like a phenomenon.. it's music with
more strength, purpose and most importantly endurance.. todays grunge
fad will die.. prog rock will always have it's hardcore small following.
: Sure, many crap secular bands have bad messages (any type of
: group featured in Rolling Stone it seems) and maybe that is
: where many Christians get the idea that all secular music
: is bad for you to listen to, but what about
: musicians whose focus is to create art rather than sell
: records and have a trendy image or philosposhy? I often
: wonder if many people actually think of music in this sense.
i still fail to understand, why music with bad messages, can't be great
music/art... don't people have minds any more?
: As a musician I find artistic music to be much more inspiring
: and satisfying than cheesy pop with Christian lyrics.
yep..
: When I go to a Chrisitan bookstore all I seem to see is
: mainstream style music with people in trendy poses on the
: CD covers. If I look at my CD collection at home (hardly
: any "Christian" music, in the CCM sense) it looks more like an art gallery,
: CD covers with beautiful landscapes, abstract art, relating
: to the artistic focus of the music. No "I'm a tough guy" hard rockers
: with big hair or pictures of the musicians in hip poses all over the
: place.
if i look at my cd collection, all i see is artists names and cd-titles :)
i guess i have a lot of cd covers that are fairly arty, especially
yes album covers..
: I think just this tells you something about the
: artists attitute and artistic focus. Christian music seems to be
: trying to emulate the mainstream, which is mostly shallow art
: in the first place. Either people don't realize this becuase
: they are never exposed to anything else or don't care.
caught in a rut... either preach or make money... neither being an artistic
focus... spending too much time emphasizing it's christianess doesn't
amount for much artistic veracity imho.
: My recommendation: go out and buy Echolyn's As the World. I'm
: not sure if they are Christians but there aren't any "bad messages"
: lyrics to corrupt anyone, actually there is even a song about C.S.
: Lewis' Screwtape letters called "My Dear Wormwood". Now there
: is a band I respect highly. Music you can call art!
i intend to get this, but it isn't released in the uk yet.. last album i
bought was Anglagard's "Epilog".. now there's the type of music you
hear in the bookstore every day... not!!... also bought "chasing time"
which was a fates warning compilation...
: Then again, maybe I just have a unique taste in music and all these
: comments are subjective and irrelavent! :) But the more I study music
: and understand it as an art form, the more I think not....
the more you realize what a waste is being made....
: Rob
Clive.
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| A gondolat u'gy fa'jt, Lassan u'rra' lett a va'gy, Tudni azt, hogy hol |
| vagyunk, Megtudni, mie'rt vagyunk, E'letu:nk tala'n, Egy furcsa la'toma's, |
| Melybo"l egyszer e'bredu:nk, E's mege'rtju:k mie'rt lettu:nk, Ha |
| felperzselt ablakodban a'llsz, Ra'do:bbensz, hogy valo'sa'g, Ta'tongo' |
| labirintus va'r, De e'bren tart az o"si va'gy. - East "Ablakok" - |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Earl Drehmer
The problems are these:
1. Indiscriminate listening. No sense of what is quality music. An
embracing of any music with Christian lyrics. Raising cheesy music to a
level it doesn't deserve.
2. A lack of exposure to and training in great music -- music of lasting
quality (i.e. art music).
3. Much Christian condemnation of meat sacrificed to idols. Many
Christians forget that only the sacrifice is the sin, not the meat. God
created the music, man misused it. The strong Christian can redeem this
music back for His glory and is free to enjoy it. It was possible for
Paul to eat such meat.
4. Calling any music okay just because a Christian did it, therefore
discriminating against music composed by a non-Christian because that is
not okay. If the company we work for isn't run by Christians, but we
still work there, why be hypocritical and say that "non-Christian" music
is wrong to listen to (I could take exception to this if the music has
lyrics that don't glorify God). We don't only buy computers that are
named after Apostles, or only use on-line services that are named after
Prophets. Some Christians are called to compose music that doesn't have
Christian lyrics and some are called to compose music without any lyrics!
Many Christians aren't aware of the existence of this music and can't
conceive that it is okay. They merrily listen to Tchaikovsky's
Nutcracker and don't realize he was a homosexual. If they did, it would
ruin their day and they probably couldn't listen to the music again. But,
his music glorifies God because it is good music. Be strong, it doesn't
have to make you stumble. If you are the weak Christian, don't take it
out on the strong one.
5. We need to be Godly and seek His opinion, not base our doctrine on our
taste. So many people don't like a certain style, so it is called devils
music. The church has made this mistake in its whole history and still
does (examine pope Gregor and his action to put together the definitive
Plainsong book 1000 years ago). The worst thing a composer can do when
he becomes a Christian is to throw away his taste in music and compose
trash that passes for "Christian music", or to give up music composing
all together. Due to naive Christian influence, I did just that for a
while. But, thank God, He straightened me out later.
6. People who call themselves Christians and who don't base their lives
on Christ and the Bible, are not to be listened to.
Rick Drehmer
WayneMan
Ever think about asking God what HE would have you to do with it? It worked
for me.
WayneMan
==========Earl Drehmer, 3/27/95==========
Melanie Ann Stum
My advice would be not to stop listening to all secular music, but if you
do listen to music with lyrics (i.e. not classical), you should be very
careful about its message. Thinking that the message of the music you
listen to does not affect you is very foolish. Why do you think Christ
told us not to be unevenly yoked with the world, and to not hold on to
the things of this world? Because the evil in it can influence you. If
you listen to songs that promote drugs, and sex, etc--that stuff can get
into your head. And that does not mean that you are a weak Christian. It
means you are human, and humans are weak. God is the one who is strong,
and makes us that way if we meditate on him. I listen to secular music
soemtimes, but I am very choosy--esp. when it comes to rock, rap, etc. As
for secular music having a better quality--that is a matter of opinion,
and in some cases it is true, and in some it is not. Esp. in rock music,
I find that one does not have to be a quality musician to be a rock star
anymore whether it be secular or christian.
Quality music does not nec. mean that it glorifies God either. For
example, some people (though not myself) consider groups such as Nirvana,
Metallica, etc. to be very quality very talented rock groups. However,
the message of a lot of their music does NOT glorify God (sorry for some
of you who may think it does) whether it is 'quality' music or not. With
classical music it is harder to say it is evil or does not glorify God
because there are no lyrics, and maybe not any particular message.
Again, this is just my opinion, but I would say be choosy, and be CAREFUL.
Melanie (mas...@spu.edu)
WayneMan (Wayne....@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM) wrote:
: Ever think about asking God what HE would have you to do with it? It worked
: for me.
: WayneMan
: ==========Earl Drehmer, 3/27/95==========
: Ron,
: The problems are these:
: Rick Drehmer
--
Melanie
Clive
: Now, it matters if it is a band like Weezer compared to a band
: like Nine Inch Nails which is obviously not music for ANY Christian to
: seriously listen to.
those are fighting and slanderous words imho.
: Ryan
Julia Marie Ebner
: 1. Indiscriminate listening. No sense of what is quality music. An
: embracing of any music with Christian lyrics. Raising cheesy music to a
: level it doesn't deserve.
i think one thing that bothers me when people on this newsgroup condemn
"cheesy" music is the question "what defines cheesy?" now that may seem
like a very simple question to answer, but i beg to differ. and even if
you can define "cheesy" what makes it wrong? is it wrong because you
don't like it? if it's so popular, there must be other people out there
who like it. i don't think they're being indiscriminant about what they
listen to - i think they just happen to like it. that's all. what does
"quality" music matter? some very simple songs that could be very easily
played, very easily written, and very easily sung have moved me in major
ways. i might even classify some of them under the label cheesy, but
they mean something to me. that's not indiscriminant listening - it's
just allowing something else other than a sense of art to enter into your
enjoyment of music.
: 2. A lack of exposure to and training in great music -- music of lasting
: quality (i.e. art music).
again, why does it all have to be art? i wouldn't call "the marvelous
toy" by peter paul and mary art, but it means a lot more to me than many
"artistic" songs...
the rest is okay... :)
-julia
John Cristion
"The Stellazine Prophecy" from Mike Roe's "Safe as Milk" CD.
John
*********************************************************
* Recording artist, God hears it all *
* Recording artist, He has total recall *
* Your sneaky moves are right here in the grooves *
* *
* Daniel Amos *
* "Horrendous Disc" *
* 1980 *
* *
* p.s. Larry, can't we have it back? *
*********************************************************
jonathan fry
: i think one thing that bothers me when people on this newsgroup condemn
Michael W. Smith: Project
=-------------------------------------------------------=
| Jonathan Fry jf...@skidmore.edu |
| (518) 581-7316 |
=-------------------------------------------------------=
Rob Martino
>Rob Martino (mar...@ctron.com) wrote:
>
>: Sure, many crap secular bands have bad messages (any type of
>: group featured in Rolling Stone it seems) and maybe that is
>: where many Christians get the idea that all secular music
>: is bad for you to listen to, but what about
>: musicians whose focus is to create art rather than sell
>: records and have a trendy image or philosposhy? I often
>: wonder if many people actually think of music in this sense.
>
>i still fail to understand, why music with bad messages, can't be great
>music/art... don't people have minds any more?
>
Hi Clive thanks for the supportive post! I was wondering what the reaction
would be. For the one point in which I wasn't sure if you were disagreeing
or not (above):
You are right, I think music with a "bad" message can be great art.
But I can respect someones decision to not listen to something though
if they have trouble with the message, I think it is a matter
of individual discernment.
For now I just wish
more people could be exposed to the quality music that would
not cause any problem because of a bad "message"! Usually real good
music doesn't have a Rolling Stone sex drugs and rock n roll
message anyways, in which case the message is as shallow as the
art as it is with of a lot of mainstream music. As you would probably
agree with there is a lot of music done by non-Christians with
honest lyrics and artistic integrety, I don't see a problem
with a Christian listening to this music. When I get to meet
some of the people in my favorite groups they turn out to be
nice, humble people with a genuine desire to be artistic and
creative. I am afraid some Christians might associate an Aerosmith or
Rolling Stone magazine type of image to any non-Christian musician,
and this turns out to be bogus for those musicians who just want to
do something artistic and creative.
>: My recommendation: go out and buy Echolyn's As the World. I'm
>: not sure if they are Christians but there aren't any "bad messages"
>: lyrics to corrupt anyone, actually there is even a song about C.S.
>: Lewis' Screwtape letters called "My Dear Wormwood". Now there
>: is a band I respect highly. Music you can call art!
>
>i intend to get this, but it isn't released in the uk yet.. last album i
>bought was Anglagard's "Epilog".. now there's the type of music you
>hear in the bookstore every day... not!!... also bought "chasing time"
>which was a fates warning compilation...
>
EPILOG....what a stunning masterpiece. The best album this decade IMO,
with As the World getting closer and closer to that status as well with
each successive listen.
>Clive.
Rob Martino
>: 1. Indiscriminate listening. No sense of what is quality music. An
>: embracing of any music with Christian lyrics. Raising cheesy music to a
>: level it doesn't deserve.
>
>i think one thing that bothers me when people on this newsgroup condemn
>"cheesy" music is the question "what defines cheesy?" now that may seem
>like a very simple question to answer, but i beg to differ. and even if
>you can define "cheesy" what makes it wrong? is it wrong because you
>don't like it? if it's so popular, there must be other people out there
>who like it. i don't think they're being indiscriminant about what they
>listen to - i think they just happen to like it. that's all.
You are right, there are people who are not into the "arty" type music,
and are content with just regular pop music. No one can say a certain
type of music is "wrong", but I see a certain phenomenon with mainstream
music that seems problematic.
The problem I have with popular music is that everything
is just a recycling of the same old ideas and cliches. The industry
has become homogenized (sp?) and stagnant for the sake of making money.
If it is too unique it is then too risky to market and sell, so eveything
is stuck in a rut. Quality music, for those who care about it, gets
no exposure.
> what does "quality" music matter?
Depends on who you ask: to me, "quality" music means everything.
>some very simple songs that could be very easily
>played, very easily written, and very easily sung have moved me in major
>ways. i might even classify some of them under the label cheesy, but
>they mean something to me. that's not indiscriminant listening - it's
>just allowing something else other than a sense of art to enter into your
>enjoyment of music.
>
But for those who ARE interested in the sense of art in music there is
not much to choose from by Christians. Contemporary Christian music
seems as a whole to emulate mainstream popular music trends, which
I feel are inherently anti-artistic and anti-original. I'm not sure
if the problem is people who don't care about art or that people are not
exposed to art. Simple music has it's place but I think it is important
that Christians are creating serious art music which I think is a more
powerful testimony in the long run as people look back from the future and
see what Christians were doing artistically.
There seems to be a dilemma for the Christian musician. Is the focus
on the art, or to minister to other people as much as possible? To
outreach the best way seems to be using a style of music everyone likes,
fitting a trendy mold and image thus sacraficing artistic integrity.
But to be very unique and innovative means a small listening audience,
plus possible disapproval from other Christians that you are not in
it for "the Great commission". So are we just supposed to submit
to whatever happens in the mainstream, so we can have our Christian
versions of Pearl Jam, REM, Nirvana, Greenday, Snoop Doggy Dog, or whatever?
But who cares? Only the musical snobs like me seem to dig art music. :^)
Too many people are content with the fast food approach to everything
(immediate satisfaction, generalized and homogenized items for the masses)
and are content with a musical hamburger when they could have a grand feast
of exotic and unusual dishes.
But I do truly think that people are REALLY MISSING OUT by not stretching
their ears to hear something a little more challenging to listen to,
and which takes a little longer to appreciate and enjoy but which in the
end yields MUCH more satisfaction than your typical pop song. Again
I will recommend Echolyn's As the World as something not too "out there"
and easy to find in stores, and which contains some fantastic music.
>: 2. A lack of exposure to and training in great music -- music of lasting
>: quality (i.e. art music).
>
>again, why does it all have to be art? i wouldn't call "the marvelous
>toy" by peter paul and mary art, but it means a lot more to me than many
>"artistic" songs...
>
The problem is that hardly ANY of it is art! Art nowadays is not encouraged,
by the secular or Christian music industries.