I'm having a bad day. I've been away from my church for two weeks, one week for a homecoming at an old church, and the next week for a trip out of town for the weekend. I go back this morning to find that the College and Career Sunday School class that I go to has been effectively dissolved, and going into the godforsaken Singles class is my only recourse. I won't be going to Sunday School anymore. Yes, it's that bad.
Then I go into the service only to find that the music minister, who is a Cool Dude, has left the church unexpectedly (and unexplainedly, since he always said that Metro was the place he wanted to be) and taken a job at another church. That sucks mightily.
So I'm in a mood. Then I go back to church tonight, and this guy that just ANNOYS me in every way (he's the perfect guy, does missionary work, all the women swoon over him, went to the University [sic] of Georgia) gets up to sing, get this, Carman's "America Again." He sang it once before, the first time I'd ever heard it, and I was sickened by what I heard. This time I recognized it, and walked out and stood in the lobby for the duration of the song, and came back in when the ovation ended.
Words cannot express how distasteful I find that song's pandering jingoism, which mixes half-truths and short-sighted, naieve suggestions about the Way Things Should Be in the perfect way to get a screaming and clapping rise out of the brainless sheep who make up the modern church. That was JUST what I wanted to hear...
Then, luckily, a guest preacher got up and gave some historically accurate Christian history ranging from Emperor Constantine to Martin Luther to the Crusades, and told a story of two young missionaries he'd married in a service at a conference in Germany or somewhere. They were from Libya, where apparently Christianity is a capitol offense, and they were trained in how to share their faith in a hostile environment safely. Unfortunately, the newlyweds forgot to remove their wedding bands and were drug off their plane in Libya, stripped naked and tied up. The bride's finger was cut off to remove her ring, and they were executed by being shot, starting with the feet and working their way up slowly as the rest of the passengers disembarked, as an example.
And Carman sings "put God in America Again." Fuck you, Carman.
JRjr -- %%%%% vaps...@prism.gatech.edu %%%%%%%% Jerry B. Ray, Jr. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "You can't second-guess ineffability, I always say. There's Right, and there's Wrong. If you do Wrong when you're told to do Right, you deserve to be punished. Er." -- Gaiman and Pratchett, _Good Omens_
> JRjr > -- > %%%%% vaps...@prism.gatech.edu %%%%%%%% Jerry B. Ray, Jr. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > "You can't second-guess ineffability, I always say. There's Right, and > there's Wrong. If you do Wrong when you're told to do Right, you deserve > to be punished. Er." -- Gaiman and Pratchett, _Good Omens_
In article <01bb9d6e$a61cf6a0$0100a...@demond.pixi.com>,
Mike-E <dem...@hawaii.edu> wrote: >> And Carman sings "put God in America Again." Fuck you, Carman. >I dunno how this relates to Lybia and such, but you're in my prayers big >guy!
It relates in that we have, for all intents and purposes, unlimited religious freedom in the USA, while people are being killed for wearing wedding bands ("a Christian custom") in other countries, and Carman's got to tilt at windmills of condoms in schools and that "lifestyle from the pits of Hell," homosexuality, and send out fliers to hold the "largest Christian concert in history" and so forth, all for the purpose of putting "God in America again." It all just makes me sick.
JRjr -- %%%%% vaps...@prism.gatech.edu %%%%%%%% Jerry B. Ray, Jr. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "You can't second-guess ineffability, I always say. There's Right, and there's Wrong. If you do Wrong when you're told to do Right, you deserve to be punished. Er." -- Gaiman and Pratchett, _Good Omens_
::: SIGH ::: Yeah. Been there, done that. Still here, still doing it. I'm due for a sympathy "disgusted and beyond pissed" mood. Hell, it won't even be for sympathy. I'm with you brother.
v> v> Words cannot express how distasteful I find that song's pandering v> jingoism, which mixes half-truths and short-sighted, naieve suggestions v> about the Way Things Should Be in the perfect way to get a screaming and v> clapping rise out of the brainless sheep who make up the modern church. v> That was JUST what I wanted to hear... v> v> Then, luckily, a guest preacher got up and gave some historically v> accurate Christian history ranging from Emperor Constantine to v> Martin Luther to the Crusades, and told a story of two young v> missionaries he'd married in a service at a conference in Germany v> or somewhere. They were from Libya, where apparently Christianity v> is a capitol offense, and they were trained in how to share their v> faith in a hostile environment safely. Unfortunately, the v> newlyweds forgot to remove their wedding bands and were drug v> off their plane in Libya, stripped naked and tied up. The bride's v> finger was cut off to remove her ring, and they were executed by being v> shot, starting with the feet and working their way up slowly as the v> rest of the passengers disembarked, as an example. v> v> And Carman sings "put God in America Again." Fuck you, Carman.
What does that last line have to do with the rest of the story? BTW, maybe next Sunday will be better...Kevin
In article <32343CF5.7...@EriNet.com>, Larry C. Ables <lcab...@EriNet.com> wrote:
>Jerry B. Ray wrote: >> >> And Carman sings "put God in America Again." Fuck you, Carman.
>*edited for length*
>>...It all just makes me sick.
>With that kind of language you make ME sick. Sorry, but I cannot >respect your opinion.
That's terribly disconcerting.
"Gosh, you said a word I don't like. Therefore, your opinion is utterly without merit to me."
*sigH*
-- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b e v. <mailto:wednes...@tezcat.com> <a href="http://www.tezcat.com/~wednsday/"> Sometimes the answer that love gives is the hardest one to take. - VoL
Larry C. Ables (lcab...@EriNet.com) wrote: : Jerry B. Ray wrote: : > : > >> And Carman sings "put God in America Again." Fuck you, Carman.
: >...It all just makes me sick. : > : > JRjr : > --
: With that kind of language you make ME sick. Sorry, but I cannot : respect your opinion.
Just for the record, I'm with Jerry on this one. His use of the f-word seems like a perfectly appropriate response to what he saw at church on Sunday. And even if it's not, it's a shame to be so bothered by a word that you discount everything else the person has said.
--Susan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Susan E. Stone * "Support bacteria: It's the only Penn Biology Dept. Academic Office * culture some people have." sst...@sas.upenn.edu * http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~sstone/ *
In article <32343CF5.7...@EriNet.com>, Larry C. Ables <lcab...@EriNet.com> wrote:
>>>> And Carman sings "put God in America Again." Fuck you, Carman. >*edited for length* >>...It all just makes me sick. >With that kind of language you make ME sick. Sorry, but I cannot >respect your opinion.
Thanks for a perfect illustration of exactly what I was ranting about: the obsession with surface appearances to the exclusion of anything that really matters that pervades today's churches...
JRjr -- %%%%% vaps...@prism.gatech.edu %%%%%%%% Jerry B. Ray, Jr. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "You can't second-guess ineffability, I always say. There's Right, and there's Wrong. If you do Wrong when you're told to do Right, you deserve to be punished. Er." -- Gaiman and Pratchett, _Good Omens_
Susan E Stone (sst...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu) wrote: : Just for the record, I'm with Jerry on this one. His use of the f-word : seems like a perfectly appropriate response to what he saw at church on : Sunday. And even if it's not, it's a shame to be so bothered by a word : that you discount everything else the person has said.
what was it that campolo said? "millions of people are going to hell and you don't give a damn, and i know you don't give a damn 'cause you're more concerned that i used the word 'damn' than anything else i said..."
anybody responding to the language, YHBT and jerry didn't even mean to troll you, i bet.
chuck. carman makes me want to register as a democrat. -- 1ismensheartsthatarefailingforfear2seethecarnagestrewnontheshore3arethelife boatsfulltocapacity?4isthereroomforjustonemore?5youwillfeellikethegreatwall enda6ashesteppedoutovertullulahgorge7iwillbindmyselftothetruthandspeakitlik ebalaamsassoncemore.........................cpear...@freenet.columbus.oh.us
(Susan E Stone) wrote: > Larry C. Ables (lcab...@EriNet.com) wrote: > : Jerry B. Ray wrote: > : > > : > >> And Carman sings "put God in America Again." Fuck you, Carman.
> : >...It all just makes me sick. > : > > : > JRjr > : > --
> : With that kind of language you make ME sick. Sorry, but I cannot > : respect your opinion.
> Just for the record, I'm with Jerry on this one. His use of the f-word > seems like a perfectly appropriate response to what he saw at church on > Sunday. And even if it's not, it's a shame to be so bothered by a word > that you discount everything else the person has said.
i'm not bothered by the word; combinations of letters hold no meaning in and of themselves. i'm bothered by what was meant by the word.
we who would say such things to Carman are no less hypocrits than we accuse him of being. think about it, people.
carman makes me groan and roll my eyes. this makes me shake my head and walk away, saddened. sure, flame me for not jumping in and giving a rousing "yeah, stick it to 'im!"... but i find this response just as sickening as anything carman has ever dreamed of.
>chuck. carman makes me want to register as a democrat.
sigh.
He had been slapped with the label of "liberal" and what's more it had stuck.
-- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b e v. <mailto:wednes...@tezcat.com> <a href="http://www.tezcat.com/~wednsday/"> Sometimes the answer that love gives is the hardest one to take. - VoL
In article <01bb9d6e$a61cf6a0$0100a...@demond.pixi.com>, "Mike-E" <dem...@hawaii.edu> writes:
>Jerry B. Ray <vaps...@prism.gatech.edu> wrote in article ><51015c$...@acmey.gatech.edu>...
><buck-wild snip>
>> And Carman sings "put God in America Again." Fuck you, Carman.
>I dunno how this relates to Lybia and such, but you're in my prayers big >guy!
And in mine.
I would guess the stuff about Libya makes two points:
1) American Christians seem to think they're being persecuted, which is utterly incorrect. The Libya example demonstrates that, despite what Carman say about our having kicked God out of America, this nation is _very_ friendly to Christians. 2) It shows what can happen when a nation officially supports one religion (and before you say that we'd be different, 'cause we'd be a _christian_ nation, consider what Christians did in the Spanish Inquisition. Yes, to persecute people because they don't accept Christ is anti-Biblical, but there will always be "christians" who would do such things...).
-- matthew c. laswell - my opinion, not Motorola's - mat...@comm.mot.com "Engineers are always honest in matters of technology and human relationships. That's why it's a good idea to keep engineers away from customers, romantic interests, and other people who can't handle the truth." - Scott Adams
>Susan E Stone (sst...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu) wrote: >: Just for the record, I'm with Jerry on this one. His use of the >: f-word seems like a perfectly appropriate response to what he saw at >: church on Sunday. And even if it's not, it's a shame to be so >: bothered by a word that you discount everything else the person has >: said.
>what was it that campolo said? "millions of people are going to hell >and you don't give a damn, and i know you don't give a damn 'cause >you're more concerned that i used the word 'damn' than anything else i >said..."
hmmn, when i saw campolo, he used the word _shit_. it made quite an impact on me.
the word, that is... =|
peace, NiCk soulbelly. ***************************************************************** "...herds of wild felt hogs roaming the countryside" - muffinhead NiCk - drummer - computerer - austen's dad - all-around wuzzy guy sit back. relax. you are in soulbelly country. the world of soulbelly can be reached at 818.562.1491. thank you. visit http://www.wavenet.com/~wtmilkmn/ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ i'm a little teapot, short and stout | it takes a big man to here is my handle | cry, but it takes an here is my other handle | even bigger man to oh crap, i'm a sugar bowl | laugh at that man. *****************************************************************
In article <51015c$...@acmey.gatech.edu>, Jerry B. Ray <vaps...@prism.gatech.edu> wrote:
>I'm having a bad day. I've been away from my church for two weeks, >one week for a homecoming at an old church, and the next week for >a trip out of town for the weekend. I go back this morning to find >that the College and Career Sunday School class that I go to has >been effectively dissolved, and going into the godforsaken Singles >class is my only recourse. I won't be going to Sunday School anymore. >Yes, it's that bad.
: :
>Words cannot express how distasteful I find that song's pandering >jingoism, which mixes half-truths and short-sighted, naieve suggestions >about the Way Things Should Be in the perfect way to get a screaming and >clapping rise out of the brainless sheep who make up the modern church. >That was JUST what I wanted to hear...
Jerry (and everyone else, since I'm posting),
That really sucks. It reminds me of a similar thing that once happened at a church I went to. The executive summary: - the political/theological current of the church basically went off in a completely random not-so-healthy direction (it was kinda the opposite of singing tacky Carman songs) - the church leadership did things which were against the wishes of most of the congregation - all but one member of the church staff quit within a few months - people on both sides handled the conflict in an un-Christian manner - lots and lots and lots of people left
Prior to that, it had been probably the best church experience of my life. Needless to say, when it went to pieces, I was just a TAD BIT bitter about the whole thing. In fact, I had lost so much faith in the church afterward that I basically went around hating all people who didn't agree with or who weren't aware of my criticisms of the church.
The bad news is that lots of churches are really screwed up, and it's painful and disappointing to become aware of just how extensive it is. The good news, though, is that the situation is not without hope. God can operate in situations like this, and he can use churches even when they are messed up. This is not to say you shouldn't be angry about what is going on at your church (it sounds like you're right to be angry). The point is to encourage you and everyone else by letting you know that you're not the only one who has felt this way, and by reminding you that God can take bad things like this and make good come out of them.
- Logan -- Logan Shaw, Unix Systems Administrator "everybody / loves to see / justice done / on somebody else" (Bruce Cockburn)
In article <1996Sep10.073014.1...@ptolemy-ethernet.arc.nasa.gov>,
Logan Shaw <lo...@kronos.arc.nasa.gov> wrote: >Prior to that, it had been probably the best church experience of my >life. Needless to say, when it went to pieces, I was just a TAD BIT >bitter about the whole thing. In fact, I had lost so much faith in the >church afterward that I basically went around hating all people who >didn't agree with or who weren't aware of my criticisms of the church.
Dig. My previous church, the one I attended from age 14 until about 1991 or 1992 (age 21 or 22) split several times while I was there, but I stuck it out despite the hurt I saw inflicted on many of my friends about the whole nasty thing. When my increasingly long hair and loud music got to be too much for them, they pressured me out ("perhaps your needs would be better met at another fellowship") and I wound up at the church I'm at now.
JRjr -- %%%%% vaps...@prism.gatech.edu %%%%%%%% Jerry B. Ray, Jr. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "You can't second-guess ineffability, I always say. There's Right, and there's Wrong. If you do Wrong when you're told to do Right, you deserve to be punished. Er." -- Gaiman and Pratchett, _Good Omens_
the kumquat kuriosity (ea...@wwa.com) wrote: : In article <511ml9$...@netnews.upenn.edu>, sst...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu : (Susan E Stone) wrote:
: i'm not bothered by the word; combinations of letters hold no meaning in : and of themselves. i'm bothered by what was meant by the word.
: we who would say such things to Carman are no less hypocrits than we accuse : him of being. think about it, people.
: carman makes me groan and roll my eyes. this makes me shake my head and : walk away, saddened. sure, flame me for not jumping in and giving a : rousing "yeah, stick it to 'im!"... but i find this response just as : sickening as anything carman has ever dreamed of.
I have to agree. I am no fan of Carman, but the man wants a country devoted to God. While his approach (a govt. fully endorsing Christianity) is horrifying, I can't say that I'm optimistic about our present direction towards a totally God-less society, either. I disagree with Carman and question him, but I can't endorse roasting the man.
Jeff
-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A lie can change, but not the truth." KERRY LIVGREN - A Hero's Canticle
Jeff Holland <jholl...@cc.gatech.edu> wrote: >: carman makes me groan and roll my eyes. this makes me shake my head and >: walk away, saddened. sure, flame me for not jumping in and giving a >: rousing "yeah, stick it to 'im!"... but i find this response just as >: sickening as anything carman has ever dreamed of. > I have to agree. I am no fan of Carman, but the man wants a country >devoted to God. While his approach (a govt. fully endorsing Christianity) >is horrifying, I can't say that I'm optimistic about our present direction >towards a totally God-less society, either. I disagree with Carman and question >him, but I can't endorse roasting the man.
I'm not "roasting" Carman. But I don't expect anybody to understand that.
JRjr -- %%%%% vaps...@prism.gatech.edu %%%%%%%% Jerry B. Ray, Jr. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "You can't second-guess ineffability, I always say. There's Right, and there's Wrong. If you do Wrong when you're told to do Right, you deserve to be punished. Er." -- Gaiman and Pratchett, _Good Omens_
> Jerry B. Ray <vaps...@prism.gatech.edu> wrote in article > <51015c$...@acmey.gatech.edu>...
> <buck-wild snip>
> > And Carman sings "put God in America Again." Fuck you, Carman.
> I dunno how this relates to Lybia and such, but you're in my prayers big > guy!
<CHURCHLADY>Well, isn't THAT special.</CHURCHLADY>
Edgar Rockenstein ercra...@email.unc.edu http://ias.ga.unc.edu/~ecrab/ "Love in action is a harsh and dreadful thing compared to love in dreams." --Feodor M. Dostoyevsky as quoted in Hal Hartley's _Surviving Desire_
On 10 Sep 1996 09:49:48 -0400, vaps...@prism.gatech.edu (Jerry B. Ray) wrote:
>In article <513qk3$...@solaria.cc.gatech.edu>, >Jeff Holland <jholl...@cc.gatech.edu> wrote:
>>: carman makes me groan and roll my eyes. this makes me shake my head and >>: walk away, saddened. sure, flame me for not jumping in and giving a >>: rousing "yeah, stick it to 'im!"... but i find this response just as >>: sickening as anything carman has ever dreamed of.
>> I have to agree. I am no fan of Carman, but the man wants a country >>devoted to God. While his approach (a govt. fully endorsing Christianity) >>is horrifying, I can't say that I'm optimistic about our present direction >>towards a totally God-less society, either. I disagree with Carman and question >>him, but I can't endorse roasting the man.
>I'm not "roasting" Carman. But I don't expect anybody to understand that.
I think I understand you. Carman is playing in a sandbox in the middle of an oasis, complaining about a lack of water, while people like the couple you mentioned are stranded in the desert with no idea where the closest oasis is.
Another analogy is that Carman is looking out over his well manicured lawn, upset that there are fleas and mosquitos breeding in the damp grass, while the next door neighbors have swamps instead of lawns, where the fleas are alligators and the mosquitos carry malaria.
It's a matter of perspective, and instead of bemoaning our plight here (which _is_ bad, don't get me wrong, just not in relation to what is outside our borders) we should be doing something about the plight of others. Until the day a representative of my government shoots me for acting religious in public I'm gonna worry about the big picture.
Besides, we all need to vent sometimes, and that was your venting time.
Jerry B. Ray <vaps...@prism.gatech.edu> wrote in article <5115ro$...@acmey.gatech.edu>...
> In article <01bb9d6e$a61cf6a0$0100a...@demond.pixi.com>, > Mike-E <dem...@hawaii.edu> wrote:
> >> And Carman sings "put God in America Again." Fuck you, Carman.
> >I dunno how this relates to Lybia and such, but you're in my prayers big > >guy!
> It relates in that we have, for all intents and purposes, unlimited > religious freedom in the USA, while people are being killed for wearing > wedding bands ("a Christian custom") in other countries, and Carman's > got to tilt at windmills of condoms in schools and that "lifestyle from > the pits of Hell," homosexuality, and send out fliers to hold the > "largest Christian concert in history" and so forth, all for the purpose > of putting "God in America again." It all just makes me sick.
Yup. I totally see your point now, and it totally makes sense.
It's so easy to judge, isn't it? I almost pointed out that speck (the f-wurd) Jerry, but, praise God, I didn't. It's up to him to point out right? God's sooo kool.
