Stores pressured to not sell used CD's ?
Brian Kauffman
are pressuring CD stores to not buy or sell used CD's.
Does anybody know the whole story here?
-Brian
Steven Michael Maser
new and used CDs. The new CDs are, by and large, at least $1.00 less
than any other store in the area.
The store had a bunch of copies of a questionaire that they wanted you
to send to one of their distributors with questions like:
Do you prefer to shop at stores that sell ( ) only new CDs ( ) only
used CDs ( ) new *and* used CDs?
At the top of the list was a paragraph something along the lines of "first
the entertainment industry was worried about blank tapes cutting into
their profits, now they are worried about used CDs!".
I filled out a questionaire, put a stamp on it and sent it off. I should
have held onto it to enter it here... The distributor was WEA and that's
about all I remember.
Steve Maser | "Got Mashed Potato. Got Mashed
- another systems programmer at | Potato. Got Mashed Potato. Ain't
ma...@caen.engin.umich.edu | Got No T-Bone" - Neil Young
Daniel Gray
>-Brian
According to the owner of the CD shop where I usually 'hang out',
the record companies are enacting a policy of no longer providing co-op
advertising money to record stores that sell used CDs. Co-op advertising
is when the record co. and the store split the costs in order to promotes
certain albums(for instance, those large ads in major newspapers
advertising what's 'new and hot' and on sale at Musicland or Tower). The
guy I talked to said it didn't really effect him since he never co-ops
anyway, but it does tie in to this next record co. atrocity.
As of April 1, 1993, when the longbox was 'phased out' in the US,
record cos. raised their wholesale prices, in some instances over $2. Prior
to April 1st, $15.98 list CDs wholesaled for $10.30. Most of these
wholesale prices have now gone over $11. Musicland has already raised many
of their prices to $16.98, and in some cases, $17.98. The worst offender
appears to be a price increase on LED ZEPPELIN IV. Formerly, it retailed
for $12.98 list(wholesale of about $8.50), now it lists for $16.98,
wholesaling at a whopping $12.20.
It appears that the record companies are trying to nudge smaller
retailers out of the business, cut off used CD sales, and rob the consumers
blind all in one swoop. The owner explained it to me thusly- he currently
gets New Order's new album REPUBLIC wholesale 'on sale' for $10.49.
Ideally, he would then use co-op advertising with WEA(the album's label) in
an effort to sell the album to the public at the sale price of $11.99.
Since he sells used discs, he cannot do this. Once shipping is figured in,
he nets about 30 cents per disc selling at $11.99 with which to advertise,
pay his employees, pay his bills, and make a profit. He says there really
isn't an incentive for him to sell the disc at $11.99. He would rather
charge $14.79(what this store sells $15.98 list titles for) in order to
make a safe amount. Unfortunately, if he does this, the Rose & Musicland
around the corner(selling for $12.99 & $11.99 respectively), will get all
the business, and he will make NO money.
I hope this has been informative, and I urge everyone not to
support this BS on the part of record companies. Support your locla
independent record merchant! If there aren't any in your area, buy from
smaller chains(Tower, Rose, Flip Side, what have you). Don't buy from the
huge record stores like Musicland, Sam Goody, or Wherehouse. Thanks for
reading...
Dan Gray
PS- Feel free to email if you'd like more info. I'll try to answer all
questions.
Disclaimer: I have no association with the record store I spoke of, nor
with any other aside from satisfied(or unsatisfied) customer...
William Herndon
>In article <1993May14....@ncar.ucar.edu> ka...@neit.cgd.ucar.edu (Brian Kauffman) writes:
>>I just read a blurb in the daily rag that certain big record companies
>>are pressuring CD stores to not buy or sell used CD's.
>>Does anybody know the whole story here?
>>
>>-Brian
>
>I don't know the whole story, but one of the stores I shop at sells
>new and used CDs. The new CDs are, by and large, at least $1.00 less
>than any other store in the area.
>
I don't doubt for a second that the large record companies are put-
ting pressure on stores to discontinue, or not start, trading in used
CDs. More than most industries, the record industry is driven by
profits, and a trade in used CDs cuts into their profit margins. If
you have a CD you don't like, they would much prefer that you keep
it, and that a potential buyer of your CD purchase it new instead.
Every single sale of a used CD is lost profits for the record com-
pany, the distributor, and the retailer.
Retailers however, can recoup some of that profit by dealing in used
CDs. As the trade in used CDs increases though, I bet the record com-
panies slowly start to go into coniptions.
- Max
| William R. Herndon \ The MITRE Corporation, Dept. G023 |
| EMail: wher...@mitre.org \ Secure Information Technology |
| NeXTMail: <out of order> \ MS-Z231, 703.883.6393 |
| |
| "The world bores you when you're cool." - Calvin |
Larry Spence
>>I just read a blurb in the daily rag that certain big record companies
>>are pressuring CD stores to not buy or sell used CD's.
>>Does anybody know the whole story here?
>
>The store had a bunch of copies of a questionaire that they wanted you
>to send to one of their distributors with questions like:
>Do you prefer to shop at stores that sell ( ) only new CDs ( ) only
>used CDs ( ) new *and* used CDs?
>
>At the top of the list was a paragraph something along the lines of "first
>the entertainment industry was worried about blank tapes cutting into
>their profits, now they are worried about used CDs!".
I'm not surprised at all. I expected something like this to happen, and
predict that the RIAA will eventually try to get legislation passed banning
sale of used CDs in the US. Then again, other things (cars, books, etc.)
are sold used, so I don't know what legal grounds they'd have...
Personally, I avoid buying new CDs like the plague, since non-sale prices
here are $12.99-15.99 (and even worse at mall chains), whereas used CDs
are $8.99-9.99 for the most part. If I want to support an artist (buying a
used CD results in no additional royalties for the artist), I go to a local
distributor and pay around $12 for a $15.99 list disc. If it's something
obscure, I mail order it or buy from an independent store.
Anyway, threats based on co-op ads aren't going to "solve the problem,"
because used-CD-only stores are popping up all over the place. The ones
around here can't expand fast enough to keep up with the volume. Actually,
some do stock a few new discs, but they don't advertise them.
--
Larry Spence
la...@cs.com
uunet!csccat!larry
Anil Trivedi
> Personally, I avoid buying new CDs like the plague, since non-sale
> prices here are $12.99-15.99 (and even worse at mall chains),
> whereas used CDs are $8.99-9.99 for the most part. If I want to
> support an artist (buying a used CD results in no additional royalties
> for the artist), I go to a local distributor and pay around $12...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I am intrigued. Can anyone buy from a distributor or do you have
special contacts?
-----
Dave Stein,,7544 San Como Way,COMS,Temp-Faculty
>In article <1t0mn2$s...@zip.eecs.umich.edu> ma...@engin.umich.edu (Steven Michael Maser) writes:
>>In article <1993May14....@ncar.ucar.edu> ka...@neit.cgd.ucar.edu (Brian Kauffman) writes:
>>>I just read a blurb in the daily rag that certain big record companies
>>>are pressuring CD stores to not buy or sell used CD's.
>>>Does anybody know the whole story here?
>[...]
>here are $12.99-15.99 (and even worse at mall chains), whereas used CDs
>are $8.99-9.99 for the most part. If I want to support an artist (buying a
>used CD results in no additional royalties for the artist)
It's true that no *additional* royalties go to the artist when you purchase
a used CD. However, if the used CD was originally purchased new by someone,
then the artist received royalties from that sale. Assuming that the original
buyer just didn't like the CD and then sell it back, this isn't really a problem
because the new owner of the CD is the only one "using" the music, and there-
fore there needn't be a second royalty payment.
I realise that in reality things don't always work this way. People often
tape CDs and then sell them back, which makes the record companies (and the
artists) understandably upset.
Also, artists get no royalties from promotional CDs, so if you buy a used CD
which is a promo, there was never a royalty payment from the sale of that CD.
But I digress...
If stores stop selling used CDs, then we have all the more reason to support
the Internet Used Music Server! (-;
"You're breathing this fear maybe once a year. | Dave Stein
We suffocate every day." | an...@cs.ucsb.edu
Lazlo Nibble
> Stores have been trading in used LPs for YEARS! If it wasn't a big deal
> when LPs dominated the industry, why is it a big deal now when CDs
> aren't even the biggest selling medium (cassettes are)?
Because LPs and cassettes wear out, and CDs don't.
--
Lazlo (la...@triton.unm.edu)
William Carroll
> I don't doubt for a second that the large record companies are put-
> ting pressure on stores to discontinue, or not start, trading in used
> CDs. More than most industries, the record industry is driven by
> profits, and a trade in used CDs cuts into their profit margins. If
> you have a CD you don't like, they would much prefer that you keep
> it, and that a potential buyer of your CD purchase it new instead.
> Every single sale of a used CD is lost profits for the record com-
> pany, the distributor, and the retailer.
> Retailers however, can recoup some of that profit by dealing in used
> CDs. As the trade in used CDs increases though, I bet the record com-
> panies slowly start to go into coniptions.
Stores have been trading in used LPs for YEARS! If it wasn't a big deal
when LPs dominated the industry, why is it a big deal now when CDs aren't
even the biggest selling medium (cassettes are)?
--
William R. Carroll (Encore Computer, Ft. Lauderdale FL) wcar...@encore.com
"We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form
up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that
we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method
it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion,
inefficiency, and demoralization." -Petronius Arbiter, 210 BC(?)
Jeff Frane
[LOTS of good info deleted...]
> I hope this has been informative, and I urge everyone not to
>support this BS on the part of record companies. Support your locla
>independent record merchant! If there aren't any in your area, buy from
>smaller chains(Tower, Rose, Flip Side, what have you). Don't buy from the
>huge record stores like Musicland, Sam Goody, or Wherehouse. Thanks for
>reading...
> Dan Gray
One day the Tower store I've been used to frequenting was gone -- and a
Wherehouse was in its place. Fortunately, the Tower store has relocated
(although much farther away) in a good building and seems to be
thriving. It was only by accident, however, that I discovered how much
better their prices are than the Wherehouse -- in spite of the
difference in size of the parent corporation. I picked up the Richard
Thompson compilation for $30 at Tower; Wherehouse had it at $39.
Generally, however, I like to pay the extra buck or two and buy my CDs
at our local "chain" (two stores), Music Millenium. Not only have they
been a solid local business for more than 20 years, they know what
they're talking about. There's nothing more frustrating than having to
deal with some 17-year-old who's never even _heard_ of someone like
Richard Thompson (Maura O'Connell, Klaus Schulze, [insert your favorite
artist]) and also apparently is incapable of looking anything up.
--Jeff
--
======================================================================
gumm...@techbook.COM Public Access UNIX at (503) 220-0636 (1200/2400)
earhar...@bvc.edu
> wher...@smiley.mitre.org (William Herndon) writes:
>
> Stores have been trading in used LPs for YEARS! If it wasn't a big deal
> when LPs dominated the industry, why is it a big deal now when CDs aren't
> even the biggest selling medium (cassettes are)?
Actually, according to _Billboard_ the industry magazine, CDs have outpaced
cassettes for some three years now.
Greg
Lazlo Nibble
> Actually, according to _Billboard_ the industry magazine, CDs have
> outpaced cassettes for some three years now.
Just out of curiosity (it's completely irrelevant to the issue at hand)
is that in terms of dollars or units?
--
Lazlo (la...@triton.unm.edu)
R Clement
>Stores have been trading in used LPs for YEARS! If it wasn't a big deal
>when LPs dominated the industry, why is it a big deal now when CDs aren't
>even the biggest selling medium (cassettes are)?
>William R. Carroll (Encore Computer, Ft. Lauderdale FL) wcar...@encore.com
One possible reason is because the perceived quality difference between new and
used CDs is less than between new and used Vinyl. Most CDs will last a lot
longer than vinyl given equivilent care (with the exception of improperly
sealed or inked CDs). For practical purposes, most CDs sold used are "as new"
in condition.
Not only the discs themselves, but jewel cased CDs can have their outer
packaging replaced easily, which you can't often do for vinyl records in
sleeves (and digicrap packaged CDs). I wouldn't hesitate to buy a cheap
CD with a really scuffed up jewel case, but would hesitate to buy a record
with a half-destroyed cover.
If the perceived difference in quality between new and used CDs is less
than between new and used vinyl, then we can expect used CDs to be much
stiffer competition for new CDs than used vinyl was for new vinyl. I've
seen it said in this newsgroup that 'used CDs are just as good as new'
several times.
It seems to me quite reasonable that the record companies are much more
worried by the second-hand market now than they used to be. Personally
I believe one reason for digi-crap packaging (which will, in many cases, wear)
is to lower the value of the CD faster than would be the case for a jewel case.
Cheers,
Ross-c