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Well, I don't agree with #5
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Bernie Woodham
May 21, 2012, 9:40:40 PM5/21/12
to
The 10 Most unpleasant facts of John Lennon:
http://listverse.com/2012/05/12/top-10-unpleasant-facts-about-john-lennon/
#1 seems to be perpetuating the notion that an entertainer has live in
a way consistent with his image; or that a songwriter has to be saying
what he really means personally. So, I disagree with that one also.
"Imagine six apartments
It isn't hard to do
One is full of fur coats
The other's full of shoes"
---- Elton John ----
http://listverse.com/2012/05/12/top-10-unpleasant-facts-about-john-lennon/
#1 seems to be perpetuating the notion that an entertainer has live in
a way consistent with his image; or that a songwriter has to be saying
what he really means personally. So, I disagree with that one also.
"Imagine six apartments
It isn't hard to do
One is full of fur coats
The other's full of shoes"
---- Elton John ----
RichL
May 21, 2012, 10:48:22 PM5/21/12
to
"Bernie Woodham" <birnh...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:6f859b8d-85f2-4c13...@hq4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
Yikes! What a hate-filled tirade, loaded with straw men.
news:6f859b8d-85f2-4c13...@hq4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
Eric Ramon
May 21, 2012, 10:53:33 PM5/21/12
to
On May 21, 6:40 pm, Bernie Woodham <birnhamw...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> The 10 Most unpleasant facts of John Lennon:
>
> http://listverse.com/2012/05/12/top-10-unpleasant-facts-about-john-le...
> The 10 Most unpleasant facts of John Lennon:
>
>
> #1 seems to be perpetuating the notion that an entertainer has live in
> a way consistent with his image; or that a songwriter has to be saying
> what he really means personally. So, I disagree with that one also.
>
> "Imagine six apartments
> It isn't hard to do
> One is full of fur coats
> The other's full of shoes"
>
> ---- Elton John ----
well that was pretty stupid. The last five were absolute trash.
> #1 seems to be perpetuating the notion that an entertainer has live in
> a way consistent with his image; or that a songwriter has to be saying
> what he really means personally. So, I disagree with that one also.
>
> "Imagine six apartments
> It isn't hard to do
> One is full of fur coats
> The other's full of shoes"
>
> ---- Elton John ----
rwalker
May 21, 2012, 11:31:31 PM5/21/12
to
all this kind of crap? I'd like to see these people's lives as
dissected as Lennon's has been. I wonder how well they'd hold up to
scrutiny?
ermitano
May 21, 2012, 11:38:41 PM5/21/12
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M C hammered
May 22, 2012, 12:12:59 AM5/22/12
to
and rude in his ruthless atracks on John. Also he greatly zaggerated
John'z numba of potmint'z an email close...in fack John is quite
modist in his posessions...as is Yoke, bein Asian.....in shote, Altin
is rude snd uncouth to.suggest John dinf practicd what he
preached...fir Kohns words in "Imagine" were the essence if his
sole....
Nuff said
"Spiritual not religious"
brilton
May 22, 2012, 12:16:09 AM5/22/12
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M C hammered
May 22, 2012, 12:43:15 AM5/22/12
to
On May 21, 9:40 pm, Bernie Woodham <birnhamw...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> The 10 Most unpleasant facts of John Lennon:
>
> http://listverse.com/2012/05/12/top-10-unpleasant-facts-about-john-le...
> The 10 Most unpleasant facts of John Lennon:
>
>
> #1 seems to be perpetuating the notion that an entertainer has live in
> a way consistent with his image; or that a songwriter has to be saying
> what he really means personally. So, I disagree with that one also.
>
> "Imagine six apartments
> It isn't hard to do
> One is full of fur coats
> The other's full of shoes"
>
> ---- Elton John ----
Well I feel this article was OK but dint gibb Yoke enuff credit fer
> #1 seems to be perpetuating the notion that an entertainer has live in
> a way consistent with his image; or that a songwriter has to be saying
> what he really means personally. So, I disagree with that one also.
>
> "Imagine six apartments
> It isn't hard to do
> One is full of fur coats
> The other's full of shoes"
>
> ---- Elton John ----
makin John that way. It states quite accurately our attitude towards
John. One of balanced respeck. Byt ut diesnt focus enuff in the
Yokes musical spiritual pgilosophical influteuq
M C hammered
May 22, 2012, 12:32:53 AM5/22/12
to
On May 21, 10:48 pm, "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Bernie Woodham" <birnhamw...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
men.....ageism....homophobia....jugmint...And LIES!!!
Fokes, who among us doubts that Karma will soon disembiwl.Elton for
the his lies dollops an INNUENDOES?
> "Bernie Woodham" <birnhamw...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
>
> news:6f859b8d-85f2-4c13...@hq4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > The 10 Most unpleasant facts of John Lennon:
>
> >http://listverse.com/2012/05/12/top-10-unpleasant-facts-about-john-le...
> news:6f859b8d-85f2-4c13...@hq4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > The 10 Most unpleasant facts of John Lennon:
>
>
> > #1 seems to be perpetuating the notion that an entertainer has live in
> > a way consistent with his image; or that a songwriter has to be saying
> > what he really means personally. So, I disagree with that one also.
>
> > "Imagine six apartments
> > It isn't hard to do
> > One is full of fur coats
> > The other's full of shoes"
>
> Yikes! What a hate-filled tirade, loaded with straw men.
Yes Elton is fulla hate...misogy.....star
> > #1 seems to be perpetuating the notion that an entertainer has live in
> > a way consistent with his image; or that a songwriter has to be saying
> > what he really means personally. So, I disagree with that one also.
>
> > "Imagine six apartments
> > It isn't hard to do
> > One is full of fur coats
> > The other's full of shoes"
>
> Yikes! What a hate-filled tirade, loaded with straw men.
men.....ageism....homophobia....jugmint...And LIES!!!
Fokes, who among us doubts that Karma will soon disembiwl.Elton for
the his lies dollops an INNUENDOES?
Sir Indipity
May 22, 2012, 3:19:24 AM5/22/12
to
On May 21, 8:40 pm, Bernie Woodham <birnhamw...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> The 10 Most unpleasant facts of John Lennon:
>
> http://listverse.com/2012/05/12/top-10-unpleasant-facts-about-john-le...
> The 10 Most unpleasant facts of John Lennon:
>
>
> #1 seems to be perpetuating the notion that an entertainer has live in
> a way consistent with his image; or that a songwriter has to be saying
> what he really means personally. So, I disagree with that one also.
>
> "Imagine six apartments
> It isn't hard to do
> One is full of fur coats
> The other's full of shoes"
>
> ---- Elton John ----
Same old thing I've always said: When somebody tries
> #1 seems to be perpetuating the notion that an entertainer has live in
> a way consistent with his image; or that a songwriter has to be saying
> what he really means personally. So, I disagree with that one also.
>
> "Imagine six apartments
> It isn't hard to do
> One is full of fur coats
> The other's full of shoes"
>
> ---- Elton John ----
to put somebody down, they are actually building
them up by giving them attention. John's personal
life is irrelevant to me.
Fattuchus
May 22, 2012, 3:53:02 AM5/22/12
to
Whoever wrote this list has an axe to grind. I don't have time to go
thru it all, but as to #10 (wife beater), Yoko stated in an interview
that John never hit her; Cynthia wrote in her book that he hit her
once, before they were married. Cyn wrote that she dumped John; he
apologized; and they later got back together and married.
thru it all, but as to #10 (wife beater), Yoko stated in an interview
that John never hit her; Cynthia wrote in her book that he hit her
once, before they were married. Cyn wrote that she dumped John; he
apologized; and they later got back together and married.
Fattuchus
May 22, 2012, 3:57:59 AM5/22/12
to
On May 21, 9:40 pm, Bernie Woodham <birnhamw...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> The 10 Most unpleasant facts of John Lennon:
>
> http://listverse.com/2012/05/12/top-10-unpleasant-facts-about-john-le...
> The 10 Most unpleasant facts of John Lennon:
>
>
> #1 seems to be perpetuating the notion that an entertainer has live in
> a way consistent with his image; or that a songwriter has to be saying
> what he really means personally. So, I disagree with that one also.
>
> "Imagine six apartments
> It isn't hard to do
> One is full of fur coats
> The other's full of shoes"
>
> ---- Elton John ----
I just glanced at # 5 (talentless) and #3 (conformer) . . . . . .
> #1 seems to be perpetuating the notion that an entertainer has live in
> a way consistent with his image; or that a songwriter has to be saying
> what he really means personally. So, I disagree with that one also.
>
> "Imagine six apartments
> It isn't hard to do
> One is full of fur coats
> The other's full of shoes"
>
> ---- Elton John ----
whoever wrote this either likes to be provocative or is attempting
something humorous. Or maybe he's just an idiot.
Fattuchus
May 22, 2012, 3:55:44 AM5/22/12
to
The author claims John was a pathological liar. Whoa. Actually, I
think he was very blunt and honest.
Did John sometimes have memory lapses? Sure. But to call him a
pathological liar? Bullshit. The author is a liar.
think he was very blunt and honest.
Did John sometimes have memory lapses? Sure. But to call him a
pathological liar? Bullshit. The author is a liar.
brilton
May 22, 2012, 5:24:22 AM5/22/12
to
The general tone of the writing is acerbic. I wouldn't worry too much
about this list.
iarwain
May 22, 2012, 9:44:22 AM5/22/12
to
Definitely don't agree with #5.
Dismissing his psychedelic era lyrics as hippie nonsense reminds me of
a South Park episode I watched yesterday.
Cartman refers to Lennon as the "King of the Hippies".
Dismissing his psychedelic era lyrics as hippie nonsense reminds me of
a South Park episode I watched yesterday.
Cartman refers to Lennon as the "King of the Hippies".
M C hammered
May 22, 2012, 10:07:47 AM5/22/12
to
Nuff said
Sir Indipity
May 22, 2012, 4:20:53 PM5/22/12
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Sir Indipity
May 22, 2012, 4:19:23 PM5/22/12
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On May 22, 2:53 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Whoever wrote this list has an axe to grind.
If it wasn't John Lennon, they wouldn't bother.
> Whoever wrote this list has an axe to grind.
marcus
May 22, 2012, 9:35:15 PM5/22/12
to
On May 21, 9:40 pm, Bernie Woodham <birnhamw...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> The 10 Most unpleasant facts of John Lennon:
>
> http://listverse.com/2012/05/12/top-10-unpleasant-facts-about-john-le...
>
>
> #1 seems to be perpetuating the notion that an entertainer has live in
> a way consistent with his image; or that a songwriter has to be saying
> what he really means personally. So, I disagree with that one also.
>
> "Imagine six apartments
> It isn't hard to do
> One is full of fur coats
> The other's full of shoes"
>
> ---- Elton John ----
I didn't agree with any of the "top 10". And of course, the asshole
> #1 seems to be perpetuating the notion that an entertainer has live in
> a way consistent with his image; or that a songwriter has to be saying
> what he really means personally. So, I disagree with that one also.
>
> "Imagine six apartments
> It isn't hard to do
> One is full of fur coats
> The other's full of shoes"
>
> ---- Elton John ----
who wrote that piece left out the most unpleasant fact about
John...that he is dead.
Marc
http://marccatone.webs.com/lennon.htm
http://marccatone.webs.com/apps/videos/videos/show/15425425-lennon-peace
Fattuchus
May 23, 2012, 2:53:47 AM5/23/12
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Sir Indipity
May 23, 2012, 7:22:13 AM5/23/12
to
jtees4
May 23, 2012, 10:02:01 AM5/23/12
to
and is my favorite Beatle by far. Never said he was perfect though.
********************
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=789610
RichL
May 23, 2012, 10:44:26 AM5/23/12
to
"jtees4" <jte...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cdrpr7lrloka08bpd...@4ax.com...
> Number 2 has always pissed me off about John...who by the way I love
> and is my favorite Beatle by far. Never said he was perfect though.
Like most of the other assertions in this tirade, #2 ("desperate for money
and fame") is probably less than half true.
I don't see much evidence at all for "desperate for money". As for fame,
sure, there were times over the course of his career where that seemed to be
the case, but other times during which the opposite seemed to be true (e.g.,
his "house-husband" phase).
And I'd say that "desperate for attention" is probably more accurate than
"desperate for fame".
But the overall problem with the article is that it makes grand, sweeping,
and simple-minded statements about a highly complex personality.
Consequently, those statements come across as mindless caricatures.
The #1 most accurate fact about John Lennon is that he was a complex and
often contradictory human being. If the author of that screed had
recognized that, he might have seen how pointless and juvenile the rest of
his piece appears to be.
news:cdrpr7lrloka08bpd...@4ax.com...
> Number 2 has always pissed me off about John...who by the way I love
> and is my favorite Beatle by far. Never said he was perfect though.
and fame") is probably less than half true.
I don't see much evidence at all for "desperate for money". As for fame,
sure, there were times over the course of his career where that seemed to be
the case, but other times during which the opposite seemed to be true (e.g.,
his "house-husband" phase).
And I'd say that "desperate for attention" is probably more accurate than
"desperate for fame".
But the overall problem with the article is that it makes grand, sweeping,
and simple-minded statements about a highly complex personality.
Consequently, those statements come across as mindless caricatures.
The #1 most accurate fact about John Lennon is that he was a complex and
often contradictory human being. If the author of that screed had
recognized that, he might have seen how pointless and juvenile the rest of
his piece appears to be.
M C hammered
May 23, 2012, 10:55:07 AM5/23/12
to
peace, he otta read John's Playboy intabiew. Then he will see the
complexity of Johns genius...and take back his feeble triad.
Bernie Woodham
May 23, 2012, 11:46:12 AM5/23/12
to
On May 23, 10:44 am, "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
OP but just haven't had time.
But, there does seem to be some segment of the population that has it
in for John Lennon. Envy, or some of the controversies he provoked, I
don't know what there hang up is. But, I can't see too many religious
organizations caring too much about him after "Imagaine."
The article also blames him for breaking up the Beatles when it's
obvious that the band was coming apart at the seams for a while before
he he made his announcement.
I think the only one I really agree with is the one about Julian
Lennon.
rwalker
May 23, 2012, 12:04:22 PM5/23/12
to
On Wed, 23 May 2012 10:44:26 -0400, "RichL" <rple...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
>The #1 most accurate fact about John Lennon is that he was a complex and
>often contradictory human being. If the author of that screed had
>recognized that, he might have seen how pointless and juvenile the rest of
>his piece appears to be.
Well said.
wrote:
>
>The #1 most accurate fact about John Lennon is that he was a complex and
>often contradictory human being. If the author of that screed had
>recognized that, he might have seen how pointless and juvenile the rest of
>his piece appears to be.
Home Guard Chris
May 23, 2012, 12:33:42 PM5/23/12
to
RichL wrote:
> The #1 most accurate fact about John Lennon is that he was a complex and
> often contradictory human being.
Even simpler than that: the #1 fact about John Lennon is that he was
> The #1 most accurate fact about John Lennon is that he was a complex and
> often contradictory human being.
human. People at both ends of the spectrum - those who worship him and
those who write this sort of list - would probably have things in better
perspective if they remembered that.
And anyway, why are things like "an average guitar player" and "He
happily went along with the Beatles’ haircuts" so much higher up the
list than #10, "Wife-beater"? Not only sensationalist hateful bile, but
poorly-thought-out sensationalist hateful bile.
--
http://www.thehomeguard.info/music.html
^ My band - feedback always welcome ^
Fattuchus
May 23, 2012, 1:46:16 PM5/23/12
to
It was well written in the sense that the author knows how to write,
but the tone was trashy. I think Goldman interviewed quite a few
people and did research, but given certain things he said and the way
he characterized things, it appeared to me that he had an agenda. I
think his agenda was to write something that was trashy and
sensionalist.
In a sense it was a shame because if Goldman was more neutral he could
have written a good, credible bio. However, there were some parts of
the book that were so "over the top" in sleaze that it undermined the
credibility of much of the book.
Fattuchus
May 23, 2012, 1:54:36 PM5/23/12
to
On May 23, 10:02 am, jtees4 <jte...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 May 2012 18:40:40 -0700 (PDT), Bernie Woodham
>
> >http://listverse.com/2012/05/12/top-10-unpleasant-facts-about-john-le...
> On Mon, 21 May 2012 18:40:40 -0700 (PDT), Bernie Woodham
>
>
> >#1 seems to be perpetuating the notion that an entertainer has live in
> >a way consistent with his image; or that a songwriter has to be saying
> >what he really means personally. So, I disagree with that one also.
>
> >"Imagine six apartments
> >It isn't hard to do
> >One is full of fur coats
> >The other's full of shoes"
>
> > ---- Elton John ----
>
> Number 2 has always pissed me off about John...who by the way I love
> and is my favorite Beatle by far. Never said he was perfect though.
> ********************
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=789610
You really believe Lennon was desperate for money and fame? And, even
> >#1 seems to be perpetuating the notion that an entertainer has live in
> >a way consistent with his image; or that a songwriter has to be saying
> >what he really means personally. So, I disagree with that one also.
>
> >"Imagine six apartments
> >It isn't hard to do
> >One is full of fur coats
> >The other's full of shoes"
>
> > ---- Elton John ----
>
> Number 2 has always pissed me off about John...who by the way I love
> and is my favorite Beatle by far. Never said he was perfect though.
> ********************
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=789610
if that were true, you think that makes him a bad person?
Any performer who wants to have financial and other success as a
singer, guitar player, songwriter, etc. has to be somewhat aggressive,
confident, etc. How else would he or she get ahead in such a
competitive field? How else would he or she have the courage to get
up in front of a large audience and perform?
If Lennon didn't have "balls" as a young man, he couldn't have been a
Beatle.
But, IMO, what makes him so special is after the Cavern, Hamburg and
great success around the world, Lennon himself admitted he grew tired
of it and wanted something "more." Lennon admitted in interviews that
by 1965 or 1966 he was thinking of doing something else, he just
didn't know what yet.
In the end, Lennon was courageous and daring (and I think a bit
besotted and foolish) to try to take the Beatles in a totally
different direction. He was the one who was willing to take the risks,
even if it meant disappointing fans.
Lennon was also involved in doing charity work and getting involved
in social causes.
For this list author to claim that John was desperate for fame and
money . . . . . ridiculous.
marcus
May 23, 2012, 2:25:20 PM5/23/12
to
On May 23, 10:44 am, "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
have been nature, but a lot was nurture( or lack thereof). Just
imagine being John Lennon, with his personality, being a Beatle...no
one, not even Elvis, had that type of experience. It was too
big...too many temptations...too much pressure. Paul, George, and
Ringo has a more extensive safety net, and more family love. Is it
any wonder that Lennon could not have assumed a fatherly parental role
at that time?
I feel badly for Julian, but he has milked the pity for all it's
worth, and frankly I'm tired of reading about his new found anxiety
about it every few years. His father was trying to make amends, but
then 12/8/80 happened.
Message has been deleted
Sir Indipity
May 23, 2012, 11:53:43 PM5/23/12
to
to have known that usually if you want a lot of money, fame
has to go with it. That's not to say that if you want money,
you have to like the fame.
jtees4
May 24, 2012, 6:54:49 PM5/24/12
to
not number 2. Nine just happened to be the second one on the page,
apparently I have not quite mastered this counting backwards thing. I
basically just don't like the way John treated Julian over the years,
that's all I was trying to say. And those that blame Julian as well as
John are generally wrong, John was the father...those kind of "hurts"
are not things that kids can overcome at any age.
********************
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=789610
Bernie Woodham
May 24, 2012, 7:05:44 PM5/24/12
to
On May 24, 6:54 pm, jtees4 <jte...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 May 2012 10:02:01 -0400, jtees4 <jte...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On Mon, 21 May 2012 18:40:40 -0700 (PDT), Bernie Woodham
> ><birnhamw...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
> >>The 10 Most unpleasant facts of John Lennon:
>
> >>http://listverse.com/2012/05/12/top-10-unpleasant-facts-about-john-le...
> On Wed, 23 May 2012 10:02:01 -0400, jtees4 <jte...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On Mon, 21 May 2012 18:40:40 -0700 (PDT), Bernie Woodham
> ><birnhamw...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
> >>The 10 Most unpleasant facts of John Lennon:
>
>
> >>#1 seems to be perpetuating the notion that an entertainer has live in
> >>a way consistent with his image; or that a songwriter has to be saying
> >>what he really means personally. So, I disagree with that one also.
>
> >>"Imagine six apartments
> >>It isn't hard to do
> >>One is full of fur coats
> >>The other's full of shoes"
>
> >> ---- Elton John ----
>
> >Number 2 has always pissed me off about John...who by the way I love
> >and is my favorite Beatle by far. Never said he was perfect though.
> >********************
>
> >http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=789610
>
> To those that responded to me...I agree with you. I meant number 9,
> not number 2. Nine just happened to be the second one on the page,
> apparently I have not quite mastered this counting backwards thing. I
> basically just don't like the way John treated Julian over the years,
> that's all I was trying to say. And those that blame Julian as well as
> John are generally wrong, John was the father...those kind of "hurts"
> are not things that kids can overcome at any age.
> ********************
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=789610
Yeah, I agree with you. The Julian thing is the only one I agree
> >>#1 seems to be perpetuating the notion that an entertainer has live in
> >>a way consistent with his image; or that a songwriter has to be saying
> >>what he really means personally. So, I disagree with that one also.
>
> >>"Imagine six apartments
> >>It isn't hard to do
> >>One is full of fur coats
> >>The other's full of shoes"
>
> >> ---- Elton John ----
>
> >Number 2 has always pissed me off about John...who by the way I love
> >and is my favorite Beatle by far. Never said he was perfect though.
> >********************
>
> >http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=789610
>
> To those that responded to me...I agree with you. I meant number 9,
> not number 2. Nine just happened to be the second one on the page,
> apparently I have not quite mastered this counting backwards thing. I
> basically just don't like the way John treated Julian over the years,
> that's all I was trying to say. And those that blame Julian as well as
> John are generally wrong, John was the father...those kind of "hurts"
> are not things that kids can overcome at any age.
> ********************
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=789610
with.
The criticisms and wounds a parent gives will last a life time. Very
hard to overcome that stuff even as an adult who can put things into
perspective.
I think Julian was very affected. He did not know his father well and
obviously grew up in a very long shadow. When you think "Julian
Lennon", you think "Beatle John's son". That is his legacy. His
identity.
I was thinking of the differences of Sean and Julian. Sean seems to
have had a far better relationship to his father. And he has grown up
with a distinct identity. His music sounds like his own.
But with Julian it seems his whole image is crafted around the image
of his father. His songs and music seem to be trying to emulate that
of his father. It's as though he is saying that the only way he can
matter is to be like his father. And I think that comes from suffering
abuse from his dad and not knowing him better. Not being able to
develop his own sense of self.
I don't know - hard to psychoanalyze and that certainly has it's
limitations. But I do think believe that a lot of what I said here
hits on something true.
Gemini Jackson
May 25, 2012, 8:32:39 AM5/25/12
to
On Thu, 24 May 2012 16:05:44 -0700 (PDT), Bernie Woodham
<birnh...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>I was thinking of the differences of Sean and Julian. Sean seems to
>have had a far better relationship to his father. And he has grown up
>with a distinct identity. His music sounds like his own.
I believe this can be attributed to growing up with parents that
<birnh...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>I was thinking of the differences of Sean and Julian. Sean seems to
>have had a far better relationship to his father. And he has grown up
>with a distinct identity. His music sounds like his own.
genuinely respect each other, something Julian never saw. I must
admit, whenever John starts climbing the ranks of the list in my mind
of favorites, it's his often disrespecting and arguable abusive side
that holds him down.
I think perhaps he was trying to deal with those demons in his songs
that dealt with peace, love, understanding, and tolerance, sort of a
combination of writing about who he wishes he was instead of who he
actually was, and also a slight smokescreen that created the illusion
for the rest of us.
-gj
Sir Indipity
May 25, 2012, 12:00:19 PM5/25/12
to
On May 25, 7:32 am, Gemini Jackson <geminijackso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 24 May 2012 16:05:44 -0700 (PDT), Bernie Woodham
>
> On Thu, 24 May 2012 16:05:44 -0700 (PDT), Bernie Woodham
>
life? If he wouldn't have been famous, no one would care
to rehash his life over and over again...except for maybe
his kids or wives.
Sir Indipity
May 25, 2012, 12:08:07 PM5/25/12
to
Very
> hard to overcome that stuff even as an adult who can put things into
> perspective.
> I think Julian was very affected. He did not know his father well and
> obviously grew up in a very long shadow. When you think "Julian
> Lennon", you think "Beatle John's son". That is his legacy. His
> identity.
>
> I was thinking of the differences of Sean and Julian. Sean seems to
> have had a far better relationship to his father.
with his father. Most people only remember their lives from
age 3. The stuff that comes out about his father is either
from Yoko, or some other adult, or something he's read.
And he has grown up
> with a distinct identity. His music sounds like his own.
> But with Julian it seems his whole image is crafted around the image
> of his father.
His songs and music seem to be trying to emulate that
> of his father.
It's as though he is saying that the only way he can
> matter is to be like his father. And I think that comes from suffering
> abuse from his dad and not knowing him better. Not being able to
> develop his own sense of self.
rwalker
May 25, 2012, 9:32:05 PM5/25/12
to
guys who sing about peace. Plus, it strikes me that he's always held
to impossible standards.
Bernie Woodham
May 25, 2012, 9:44:25 PM5/25/12
to
On May 25, 9:32 pm, rwalker <rwal...@despammed.com> wrote:
>
>
> I'm paraphrasing a bit, be he did once say it's always the violent
> guys who sing about peace.
That's true of Dino Valenti/Chet Powers who wrote "Get Together".
>
>
> I'm paraphrasing a bit, be he did once say it's always the violent
> guys who sing about peace.
Bernie Woodham
May 26, 2012, 1:22:45 AM5/26/12
to
On May 25, 12:08 pm, Sir Indipity <sirindipit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> The first 5 years of your life isn't having a far better relationship
> with his father. Most people only remember their lives from
> age 3. The stuff that comes out about his father is either
> from Yoko, or some other adult, or something he's read.
>
It has an effect on you whether you remember it or not.
>
>
> The first 5 years of your life isn't having a far better relationship
> with his father. Most people only remember their lives from
> age 3. The stuff that comes out about his father is either
> from Yoko, or some other adult, or something he's read.
>
Fattuchus
May 26, 2012, 7:12:39 AM5/26/12
to
Post
of
the
year
I also feel some sympathy for Julian, but I am familiar with a number
of families with children of divorce. Julian was fortunate in many
ways.
Also, according to some bios, John was not emotionally prepared to get
married at 22 and did not really want to get married, but in those
days in the Liverpool area, if a girlfriend got pregnant, the couple
often married. John had his own demons to wrestle with . . . . he
wasn't ready to be a great husband and father back then.
Nowadays in Europe and the US, many couples in the same situation
would make life easy . . . . just have an abortion. Indeed, Yoko
wanted to abort Sean.
Fattuchus
May 26, 2012, 7:17:41 AM5/26/12
to
On May 25, 8:32 am, Gemini Jackson <geminijackso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 24 May 2012 16:05:44 -0700 (PDT), Bernie Woodham
>
> On Thu, 24 May 2012 16:05:44 -0700 (PDT), Bernie Woodham
>
was quite open and blunt about his past mistakes. I believe he had
serious emotional problems. IMO his music and art was a form of
personal therapy. I do believe Lennon felt genuine remorse. This is
demonstrated in his interviews and in May Pang's book.
Fattuchus
May 26, 2012, 7:20:19 AM5/26/12
to
IMO, a famous person's personal life can be relevant. A person may be
a great singer or actor, but what if he or she is also a horrible
human being? What if he or she is a rapist or child molester?
Celebrities are famous largely because they please the public. Their
audiences like them for their art as well who they are. Many people
in the audience, including myself, may like a performer, but if we
found out they committed some heinous crime, it would be a big turn
off.
Sir Indipity
May 26, 2012, 7:36:52 AM5/26/12
to
That's what I was commenting on. I was just saying
that from age 3 to age 5, isn't enough time to have
much of a relationship with your father.
Fattuchus
May 26, 2012, 7:14:57 AM5/26/12
to
On May 23, 11:53 pm, Sir Indipity <sirindipit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > But, IMO, what makes him so special is after the Cavern, Hamburg and
> > great success around the world, Lennon himself admitted he grew tired
> > of it and wanted something "more." Lennon admitted in interviews that
> > by 1965 or 1966 he was thinking of doing something else, he just
> > didn't know what yet.
>
> > In the end, Lennon was courageous and daring (and I think a bit
> > besotted and foolish) to try to take the Beatles in a totally
> > different direction. He was the one who was willing to take the risks,
> > even if it meant disappointing fans.
>
> > Lennon was also involved in doing charity work and getting involved
> > in social causes.
>
> > For this list author to claim that John was desperate for fame and
> > money . . . . . ridiculous.
>
> Is it wrong to be desperate for fame and money? John had
> to have known that usually if you want a lot of money, fame
> has to go with it. That's not to say that if you want money,
> you have to like the fame.-
>
> > But, IMO, what makes him so special is after the Cavern, Hamburg and
> > great success around the world, Lennon himself admitted he grew tired
> > of it and wanted something "more." Lennon admitted in interviews that
> > by 1965 or 1966 he was thinking of doing something else, he just
> > didn't know what yet.
>
> > In the end, Lennon was courageous and daring (and I think a bit
> > besotted and foolish) to try to take the Beatles in a totally
> > different direction. He was the one who was willing to take the risks,
> > even if it meant disappointing fans.
>
> > Lennon was also involved in doing charity work and getting involved
> > in social causes.
>
> > For this list author to claim that John was desperate for fame and
> > money . . . . . ridiculous.
>
> Is it wrong to be desperate for fame and money? John had
> to have known that usually if you want a lot of money, fame
> has to go with it. That's not to say that if you want money,
IMO it is not always "wrong" to be "desperate" for fame and money.
But IMO the word "desperate" can have bad connotations such as,
"Lennon would do anything for fame and money." e.g. lie, cheat,
steal, prostitute himself, etc.
Sir Indipity
May 26, 2012, 7:46:29 AM5/26/12
to
On May 26, 6:20 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 25, 12:00 pm, Sir Indipity <sirindipit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 25, 7:32 am, Gemini Jackson <geminijackso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Thu, 24 May 2012 16:05:44 -0700 (PDT), Bernie Woodham
>
> > > <birnhamw...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> > > >I was thinking of the differences of Sean and Julian. Sean seems to
> > > >have had a far better relationship to his father. And he has grown up
> > > >with a distinct identity. His music sounds like his own.
>
> > > I believe this can be attributed to growing up with parents that
> > > genuinely respect each other, something Julian never saw. I must
> > > admit, whenever John starts climbing the ranks of the list in my mind
> > > of favorites, it's his often disrespecting and arguable abusive side
> > > that holds him down.
> > > I think perhaps he was trying to deal with those demons in his songs
> > > that dealt with peace, love, understanding, and tolerance, sort of a
> > > combination of writing about who he wishes he was instead of who he
> > > actually was, and also a slight smokescreen that created the illusion
> > > for the rest of us.
> > > -gj
>
> > I don't understand why it matters what he did in his personal
> > life? If he wouldn't have been famous, no one would care
> > to rehash his life over and over again...except for maybe
> > his kids or wives.-
>
> IMO, a famous person's personal life can be relevant.
It is to you...cause you want to dig and dig for more
> On May 25, 12:00 pm, Sir Indipity <sirindipit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 25, 7:32 am, Gemini Jackson <geminijackso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Thu, 24 May 2012 16:05:44 -0700 (PDT), Bernie Woodham
>
> > > <birnhamw...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> > > >I was thinking of the differences of Sean and Julian. Sean seems to
> > > >have had a far better relationship to his father. And he has grown up
> > > >with a distinct identity. His music sounds like his own.
>
> > > I believe this can be attributed to growing up with parents that
> > > genuinely respect each other, something Julian never saw. I must
> > > admit, whenever John starts climbing the ranks of the list in my mind
> > > of favorites, it's his often disrespecting and arguable abusive side
> > > that holds him down.
> > > I think perhaps he was trying to deal with those demons in his songs
> > > that dealt with peace, love, understanding, and tolerance, sort of a
> > > combination of writing about who he wishes he was instead of who he
> > > actually was, and also a slight smokescreen that created the illusion
> > > for the rest of us.
> > > -gj
>
> > I don't understand why it matters what he did in his personal
> > life? If he wouldn't have been famous, no one would care
> > to rehash his life over and over again...except for maybe
> > his kids or wives.-
>
> IMO, a famous person's personal life can be relevant.
personal details. It's not relevant to me, and I can
think of plenty of other productive things to do
with my time than to obsess over John and
Yoko's personal life.
A person may be
> a great singer or actor, but what if he or she is also a horrible
> human being? What if he or she is a rapist or child molester?
or child molester.
> Celebrities are famous largely because they please the public. Their
> audiences like them for their art as well who they are. Many people
> in the audience, including myself, may like a performer, but if we
> found out they committed some heinous crime, it would be a big turn
> off.
hoping you'll find some info that they were rapists or child
molesters, or some other heinous crimes?
Sir Indipity
May 26, 2012, 7:49:17 AM5/26/12
to
got his fame and money.
Fattuchus
May 26, 2012, 11:33:03 AM5/26/12
to
On May 26, 7:46 am, Sir Indipity <sirindipit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 26, 6:20 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I don't understand why it matters what he did in his personal
> > > life? If he wouldn't have been famous, no one would care
> > > to rehash his life over and over again...except for maybe
> > > his kids or wives.-
>
> > IMO, a famous person's personal life can be relevant.
>
> It is to you...cause you want to dig and dig for more
> personal details. It's not relevant to me, and I can
> think of plenty of other productive things to do
> with my time than to obsess over John and
> Yoko's personal life.
Why are you turning this nice discussion into an attack against me?
> On May 26, 6:20 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I don't understand why it matters what he did in his personal
> > > life? If he wouldn't have been famous, no one would care
> > > to rehash his life over and over again...except for maybe
> > > his kids or wives.-
>
> > IMO, a famous person's personal life can be relevant.
>
> It is to you...cause you want to dig and dig for more
> personal details. It's not relevant to me, and I can
> think of plenty of other productive things to do
> with my time than to obsess over John and
> Yoko's personal life.
You are the one who raised the question, "I don't understand why it
matters what he did, etc." I answered the question.
>
> A person may be
>
> > a great singer or actor, but what if he or she is also a horrible
> > human being? What if he or she is a rapist or child molester?
>
> We've already been through this, and John wasn't a rapist
> or child molester.
question, and I answered it in a general way. Don't you think Michael
Jackson's popularity and success went down when he was accused of
sleeping with pre teen boys? Don't you think OJ Simpson became almost
untouchable as a celebrity when he was accused of killing his ex
wife? Many people feel that way. I am not alone in my opinions.
>
> > Celebrities are famous largely because they please the public. Their
> > audiences like them for their art as well who they are. Many people
> > in the audience, including myself, may like a performer, but if we
> > found out they committed some heinous crime, it would be a big turn
> > off.
>
> So...is that why you keep digging for more info on John and Yoko,
> hoping you'll find some info that they were rapists or child
That's bullshit Jeff; you are really annoying me.
Bernie Woodham
May 26, 2012, 12:41:50 PM5/26/12
to
their following development:
http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110821/A_NEWS/108210315
Sir Indipity
May 26, 2012, 12:46:59 PM5/26/12
to
On May 26, 10:33 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 26, 7:46 am, Sir Indipity <sirindipit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 26, 6:20 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I don't understand why it matters what he did in his personal
> > > > life? If he wouldn't have been famous, no one would care
> > > > to rehash his life over and over again...except for maybe
> > > > his kids or wives.-
>
> > > IMO, a famous person's personal life can be relevant.
>
> > It is to you...cause you want to dig and dig for more
> > personal details. It's not relevant to me, and I can
> > think of plenty of other productive things to do
> > with my time than to obsess over John and
> > Yoko's personal life.
>
> Why are you turning this nice discussion into an attack against me?
I'm not. You ought to know me better than that. You've always
> On May 26, 7:46 am, Sir Indipity <sirindipit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 26, 6:20 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I don't understand why it matters what he did in his personal
> > > > life? If he wouldn't have been famous, no one would care
> > > > to rehash his life over and over again...except for maybe
> > > > his kids or wives.-
>
> > > IMO, a famous person's personal life can be relevant.
>
> > It is to you...cause you want to dig and dig for more
> > personal details. It's not relevant to me, and I can
> > think of plenty of other productive things to do
> > with my time than to obsess over John and
> > Yoko's personal life.
>
> Why are you turning this nice discussion into an attack against me?
stated that there are always new things to learn about John
and Yoko, and you like to read more and more books.
I've always disagreed with you and said there is only so
much you can know about their lives together, and John
as a Beatle.
> You are the one who raised the question, "I don't understand why it
> matters what he did, etc." I answered the question.
place would be boring.
> > A person may be
>
> > > a great singer or actor, but what if he or she is also a horrible
> > > human being? What if he or she is a rapist or child molester?
>
> > We've already been through this, and John wasn't a rapist
> > or child molester.
>
> But I wasn't talking about only John.
and "child molester"....so I responded to that.
You raised the general
> question, and I answered it in a general way.
was to attack you, I would use your name in a
sentence. I didn't do that.
Don't you think Michael
> Jackson's popularity and success went down when he was accused of
> sleeping with pre teen boys?
quit performing in the U.S. Then all of a sudden after he
dies, it's like he became like a God or something. I
never understood that.
Don't you think OJ Simpson became almost
> untouchable as a celebrity when he was accused of killing his ex
> wife?
have to do with this discussion?
Many people feel that way. I am not alone in my opinions.
> > > Celebrities are famous largely because they please the public.
A lot of people are like me and don't care about his
personal life unless like you said...if he had been a
child molester or did some heinous crimes.
Their
> > > audiences like them for their art as well who they are. Many people
> > > in the audience, including myself, may like a performer, but if we
> > > found out they committed some heinous crime, it would be a big turn
> > > off.
> > So...is that why you keep digging for more info on John and Yoko,
> > hoping you'll find some info that they were rapists or child
> > molesters, or some other heinous crimes?-
>
> That's bullshit Jeff; you are really annoying me.
way conversation? Just because I'm responding
doesn't mean I am attacking you. One more thing:
I'm really not that important for you to be upset
at. I'm just another poster like you and the other
posters.
Sir Indipity
May 26, 2012, 3:14:27 PM5/26/12
to
>>That's bullshit Jeff, you are really annoying me<
It's okay for you to say this to me cause I'm not
going to hassle you about it. But, it's not a good
idea to say this to other posters. Some of them
love to make others angry.
Sir Indipity
May 26, 2012, 3:09:35 PM5/26/12
to
You're right, Bernie. And, I read the article, but you're missing
my point: You said: "Sean had a better relationship to his father".
Again, I'm just saying from age 3 to age 5 isn't much time to
have much of a relationship with his father. That's all I'm
saying. You're comparing him to Julian. I'm not, cause
I have no idea what Julian's first 5 years of life were
so I can't make any comparisons.
Bernie Woodham
May 26, 2012, 3:49:14 PM5/26/12
to
years of life with Lennon? When Sean was born Lennon left his career
to become a house husband.
When Julian was born Lennon was extremely busy with his career.
Julian hardly knew him at all.
You don't see a very basic difference?
M C hammered
May 26, 2012, 4:34:16 PM5/26/12
to
The YOKE. Plain an simple, its that cotton-pickin Yoke.
Now.did Yoko breast feed Sean? Cuzzif so zI truly envy him, and hope
I some day soon gdt reincarnationed as him so I too can tastd her her
boobs, her nipples, her milk, an possi bly getta nice stiff buzz offa
whatebba drugs shes takin at thd time. Horse, crank, you name it.
Now sumfrin else da differnt tween Sean an Julian is, afta Michael
Jackson got thd Beatles publitchin, Yoko pimped Sean out ta Michael,
sendin him straight ta Nebbaland. cars o Elliot friggin Mince.
And that, my friends, is when Sean discubba'd his true culla's.
Nuff said
"Spiritual not religious"
Sir Indipity
May 26, 2012, 4:40:09 PM5/26/12
to
anything about their lives until age 3.
When Sean was born Lennon left his career
> to become a house husband.
> When Julian was born Lennon was extremely busy with his career.
> Julian hardly knew him at all.
>
> You don't see a very basic difference?
of, because I don't know about Julian's first 5 years of
life, in comparison to Sean's. Aren't you comparing
their lives? Again, I was just saying in itself that Sean's
5 years with John isn't much time to have much of a
relationship with his father. If you're disputing this, I
don't know how you can?
WillyShears
May 26, 2012, 5:06:23 PM5/26/12
to
On 5/21/2012 8:40 PM, Bernie Woodham wrote:
> The 10 Most unpleasant facts of John Lennon:
>
I don't care I don't care I don't care I don't care I don't care I don't
> The 10 Most unpleasant facts of John Lennon:
>
care!
And by saying that, I am NOT conceeding any of the 10 are even accurate.
We all have skeletons in our closet. Mega-Superstars skeletons just get
discovered, witnessed, and reported far more often than us regular folk.
All I care about was the great rock&roll he had a major hand in creating
and offering to the world. I will not judge him les I get judged myself.
Willy
P.S I'd like to spit some Beechnut in that dude's eye for #5...
M C hammered
May 26, 2012, 5:10:54 PM5/26/12
to
heard of by any artiats, but among thd common people wid no cultcha or
advanced degree's in music theory (Yokes primary field of study, tho
of course bein a Renaissance woman, she had many ithas ...sush as
poserin NUDE...)...this bang was know'd as the Beatles, annits its
like, ya just lnow that any band namerin itself afta a GODDANG BUG is
lowly an insiggnificant in natcha, expeshly compade to Yoke.
Now, when a John had Sean, he'd finaly found himself, discubbad his
TRUE NATCHA, sumfin he was actualy GOOD at, and Yoke permitted it.
Bakin the goddang bread. He wanted Gold Firkin Records fer that
Firkin bread!!
But this bread, that came'd from John, just as Sean, plopped outta
Yoko, this bread NURITCHED Sean into the the burly rugged feller (a
"bear"?)I he is today.
Bernie Woodham
May 26, 2012, 6:19:40 PM5/26/12
to
On May 26, 4:40 pm, Sir Indipity <sirindipit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > Why do you say age 3 to age 5, instead of seeing there was a full five
> > years of life with Lennon?
>
> Because as I said earlier, most people can't remember
> anything about their lives until age 3.
>
And a said earlier, and you agreed with, it doesn't matter whether you
>
>
> > Why do you say age 3 to age 5, instead of seeing there was a full five
> > years of life with Lennon?
>
> Because as I said earlier, most people can't remember
> anything about their lives until age 3.
>
can remember it or not, you are still affected by it.
> When Sean was born Lennon left his career
>
> > to become a house husband.
>
> Right.
>
> > When Julian was born Lennon was extremely busy with his career.
> > Julian hardly knew him at all.
>
> > You don't see a very basic difference?
>
> I don't know about this very basic difference that you speak
> of, because I don't know about Julian's first 5 years of
> life, in comparison to Sean's. Aren't you comparing
> their lives? Again, I was just saying in itself that Sean's
> 5 years with John isn't much time to have much of a
> relationship with his father. If you're disputing this, I
> don't know how you can?
At this point Jeff, I just think you're being silly.
Eric Ramon
May 26, 2012, 6:48:33 PM5/26/12
to
On May 26, 4:20 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> IMO, a famous person's personal life can be relevant. A person may be
> a great singer or actor, but what if he or she is also a horrible
> human being? What if he or she is a rapist or child molester?
>
> Celebrities are famous largely because they please the public. Their
> audiences like them for their art as well who they are. Many people
> in the audience, including myself, may like a performer, but if we
> found out they committed some heinous crime, it would be a big turn
> off.
yeah, like Caravaggio.
>
> IMO, a famous person's personal life can be relevant. A person may be
> a great singer or actor, but what if he or she is also a horrible
> human being? What if he or she is a rapist or child molester?
>
> Celebrities are famous largely because they please the public. Their
> audiences like them for their art as well who they are. Many people
> in the audience, including myself, may like a performer, but if we
> found out they committed some heinous crime, it would be a big turn
> off.
Sir Indipity
May 26, 2012, 7:07:29 PM5/26/12
to
Sir Indipity
May 26, 2012, 7:10:55 PM5/26/12
to
On May 26, 4:06 pm, WillyShears <W...@Bills.Pub> wrote:
> On 5/21/2012 8:40 PM, Bernie Woodham wrote:
>
> > The 10 Most unpleasant facts of John Lennon:
>
> I don't care I don't care I don't care I don't care I don't care I don't
> care!
> And by saying that, I am NOT conceeding any of the 10 are even accurate.
> We all have skeletons in our closet. Mega-Superstars skeletons just get
> discovered, witnessed, and reported far more often than us regular folk.
> All I care about was the great rock&roll he had a major hand in creating
> and offering to the world. I will not judge him les I get judged myself.
> Willy
Amen
> On 5/21/2012 8:40 PM, Bernie Woodham wrote:
>
> > The 10 Most unpleasant facts of John Lennon:
>
> I don't care I don't care I don't care I don't care I don't care I don't
> care!
> And by saying that, I am NOT conceeding any of the 10 are even accurate.
> We all have skeletons in our closet. Mega-Superstars skeletons just get
> discovered, witnessed, and reported far more often than us regular folk.
> All I care about was the great rock&roll he had a major hand in creating
> and offering to the world. I will not judge him les I get judged myself.
> Willy
M C hammered
May 26, 2012, 8:48:28 PM5/26/12
to
A-firkin-men my friend a-friggin-men. I Mista Charlie wanna take
rhose beach nuts anx throw them thru the winda's...plant em in da
giddin's....feedem to the doggs.
The fact is, we all make mistake's. We all DO. Hell, lookit John.
Thot he could be a furkin MUSICIAM (hee-hee) til ole Yoke came along,
ta show him, an alla ys, our trye purpose, intentered be
Jesus....WORSHIPPIN HER!!!
Nuff said
"Spiritual not religioys"
rwalker
May 26, 2012, 9:08:38 PM5/26/12
to
On Sat, 26 May 2012 16:06:23 -0500, WillyShears <W...@Bills.Pub> wrote:
>I don't care I don't care I don't care I don't care I don't care I don't
>care!
>And by saying that, I am NOT conceeding any of the 10 are even accurate.
>We all have skeletons in our closet. Mega-Superstars skeletons just get
>discovered, witnessed, and reported far more often than us regular folk.
>All I care about was the great rock&roll he had a major hand in creating
>and offering to the world. I will not judge him les I get judged myself.
>Willy
Well done.
>I don't care I don't care I don't care I don't care I don't care I don't
>care!
>And by saying that, I am NOT conceeding any of the 10 are even accurate.
>We all have skeletons in our closet. Mega-Superstars skeletons just get
>discovered, witnessed, and reported far more often than us regular folk.
>All I care about was the great rock&roll he had a major hand in creating
>and offering to the world. I will not judge him les I get judged myself.
>Willy
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