Terrorist trials in New York......
BLACKPOOLJIMMY
Being a capitalist.....I plan on selling t-shirts as soon as I can get
them silk screened.
TRY EM THEN FRY EM ... is the logo.
Gonna make a fortune.
Tee's, hats, buttons, bumper stickers.
Jim Beam
Take two of them all,
x-large in shirt size.
Mack A. Damia
Heard that one or more might plead guilty for proper martyrdom.
At least five years before the first one - maybe a lot longer with
clever lawyering. Might be a challenge to many young egos.
--
mad
The Walrus was Danny
I don't agree with the death penalty.
Danny
BLACKPOOLJIMMY
wrote:
That's cool Danny. In this case I do. After all it's what they
desire.
Bernie Woodham
>
> Danny
Not even for that nutter that used a bolt pistol to kill a mother in
front of her children as they screamed for him to stop?
BLACKPOOLJIMMY
If someone harmed Danny's child...he'd kill em.
Fattuchus
The only reason why I have questions about the wisdom of the death
penalty is the fact that sometimes an innocent person is executed.
That is a terrible, terrible injustice.
However, if there is absolutely no doubt that the murderer or rapist
did the crime, (i.e. Dr. Hasan at Ft. Hood) I have no problem with it.
Fattuchus
IMO, there is a danger in NOT executing these terrorists. If the US
decides to keep them in jail for a long time, that might encourage
more terrorist attacks. Israel faces this all the time. Israel holds
terrorists in its jails, and then there are more terrorist attacks
where terrorists kidnap Israelis and ultimately, Israel makes a deal.
Jeff
How do you get a copyright on the Logo, Jimmy?
Jeff
A relative of mine went to Taiwan. Over there,
they sell jewelry off the streets. Relative comes
home...expecting big money. Another relative
said it was cheap garbage, and who would
pay for that over here? Jewelry sits around
collecting dust.
BLACKPOOLJIMMY
Well, I do send copyright material to D.C for my music. Better hurrry
with logo copyright... my luck McDonalds will grab TRY EM..THEN FRY EM
for some snack treat.
richforman
> On Nov 19, 7:45 pm, The Walrus was Danny <dannyisthewal...@tesco.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 20 Nov, 00:14, BLACKPOOLJIMMY <Chippandf...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > Wonderful.
>
> > > Being a capitalist.....I plan on selling t-shirts as soon as I can get
> > > them silk screened.
>
> > > TRY EM THEN FRY EM ... is the logo.
>
> > > Gonna make a fortune.
>
> > > Tee's, hats, buttons, bumper stickers.
>
> > I don't agree with the death penalty.
>
> > Danny
>
> The only reason why I have questions about the wisdom of the death
> penalty is the fact that sometimes an innocent person is executed.
> That is a terrible, terrible injustice.
That seems to me to be the strongest argument against it. Anyone in
favor of the death penalty has to admit they're willing to risk
innocent people being executed....and it has happened before.
>
> However, if there is absolutely no doubt that the murderer or rapist
> did the crime, (i.e. Dr. Hasan at Ft. Hood) I have no problem with it.
>
Unfortunately, I don't think they can write laws with language like
"....not unless we're really really sure!"
It's such a cliche in this debate, but the old warhorse "better that
100 guilty men go free than one innocent man go to prison" - or
however it goes exactly - anyway I really believe it in my heart, it's
at the heart of what makes the American justice system special I
think, and though it's not always easy to follow through with, I think
we should adhere to it.
richforman
Crisstti
> On Nov 20, 9:53 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 19, 7:45 pm, The Walrus was Danny <dannyisthewal...@tesco.net>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On 20 Nov, 00:14, BLACKPOOLJIMMY <Chippandf...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Wonderful.
>
> > > > Being a capitalist.....I plan on selling t-shirts as soon as I can get
> > > > them silk screened.
>
> > > > TRY EM THEN FRY EM ... is the logo.
>
> > > > Gonna make a fortune.
>
> > > > Tee's, hats, buttons, bumper stickers.
>
> > > I don't agree with the death penalty.
>
> > > Danny
>
> > The only reason why I have questions about the wisdom of the death
> > penalty is the fact that sometimes an innocent person is executed.
> > That is a terrible, terrible injustice.
>
> That seems to me to be the strongest argument against it. Anyone in
> favor of the death penalty has to admit they're willing to risk
> innocent people being executed....and it has happened before.
>
Mmm... I don't know. With life sentences, people are willing to let
innocent people be locked up for the rest of their lives (since that
is a posibility as well...), and I'm not sure that any better...
I think that the fact that the state has to pay people to kill
someone... that someone's job can be to do something like that is what
unltimately make me be against it (though on some cases I'm still not
completely sure).
>
>
> > However, if there is absolutely no doubt that the murderer or rapist
> > did the crime, (i.e. Dr. Hasan at Ft. Hood) I have no problem with it.
>
> Unfortunately, I don't think they can write laws with language like
> "....not unless we're really really sure!"
> It's such a cliche in this debate, but the old warhorse "better that
> 100 guilty men go free than one innocent man go to prison" - or
> however it goes exactly - anyway I really believe it in my heart, it's
> at the heart of what makes the American justice system special I
> think, and though it's not always easy to follow through with, I think
> we should adhere to it.
>
> richforman- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Not sure I'm following you. The death penalty exists and is widly
applied in the US, so it doesn't sound like its justice system
believes that much in that "warhouse...".
Crisstti
>
> - Show quoted text -
So Israel doesn't have death penalty?.
BLACKPOOLJIMMY
>
> Mmm... I don't know. �With life sentences, people are willing to let
> innocent people be locked up for the rest of their lives (since that
> is a posibility as well...), and I'm not sure that any better...
But they are alive. Always a possibility of new evidence. Once dead,
you're dead.
>
> I think that the fact that the state has to pay people to kill
> someone... that someone's job can be to do something like that is what
> unltimately make me be against it (though on some cases I'm still not
> completely sure).
Work is work, here in the states these day's.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
RichL
> On Nov 20, 7:13 pm, richforman <rforma...@msn.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 20, 9:53 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 19, 7:45 pm, The Walrus was Danny
>>> <dannyisthewal...@tesco.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> On 20 Nov, 00:14, BLACKPOOLJIMMY <Chippandf...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Wonderful.
>>
>>>>> Being a capitalist.....I plan on selling t-shirts as soon as I
>>>>> can get them silk screened.
>>
>>>>> TRY EM THEN FRY EM ... is the logo.
>>
>>>>> Gonna make a fortune.
>>
>>>>> Tee's, hats, buttons, bumper stickers.
>>
>>>> I don't agree with the death penalty.
>>
>>>> Danny
>>
>>> The only reason why I have questions about the wisdom of the death
>>> penalty is the fact that sometimes an innocent person is executed.
>>> That is a terrible, terrible injustice.
>>
>> That seems to me to be the strongest argument against it. Anyone in
>> favor of the death penalty has to admit they're willing to risk
>> innocent people being executed....and it has happened before.
>>
>
> Mmm... I don't know. With life sentences, people are willing to let
> innocent people be locked up for the rest of their lives (since that
> is a posibility as well...), and I'm not sure that any better...
At least with a life sentence, if you find out later on that the person
is innocent (as has happened many times), you can free him.
> I think that the fact that the state has to pay people to kill
> someone... that someone's job can be to do something like that is what
> unltimately make me be against it (though on some cases I'm still not
> completely sure).
Well, sure, a lot of people get paid who are associated with putting the
people to death.
>
>>> However, if there is absolutely no doubt that the murderer or rapist
>>> did the crime, (i.e. Dr. Hasan at Ft. Hood) I have no problem with
>>> it.
>>
>> Unfortunately, I don't think they can write laws with language like
>> "....not unless we're really really sure!"
>> It's such a cliche in this debate, but the old warhorse "better that
>> 100 guilty men go free than one innocent man go to prison" - or
>> however it goes exactly - anyway I really believe it in my heart,
>> it's at the heart of what makes the American justice system special I
>> think, and though it's not always easy to follow through with, I
>> think we should adhere to it.
>>
>> richforman- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Not sure I'm following you. The death penalty exists and is widly
> applied in the US, so it doesn't sound like its justice system
> believes that much in that "warhouse...".
True. But that doesn't stop those of us who oppose the penalty from
trying to change things.
Fattuchus
> On Nov 20, 9:53 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 19, 7:45 pm, The Walrus was Danny <dannyisthewal...@tesco.net>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On 20 Nov, 00:14, BLACKPOOLJIMMY <Chippandf...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Wonderful.
>
> > > > Being a capitalist.....I plan on selling t-shirts as soon as I can get
> > > > them silk screened.
>
> > > > TRY EM THEN FRY EM ... is the logo.
>
> > > > Gonna make a fortune.
>
> > > > Tee's, hats, buttons, bumper stickers.
>
> > > I don't agree with the death penalty.
>
> > > Danny
>
> > The only reason why I have questions about the wisdom of the death
> > penalty is the fact that sometimes an innocent person is executed.
> > That is a terrible, terrible injustice.
>
> That seems to me to be the strongest argument against it. Anyone in
> favor of the death penalty has to admit they're willing to risk
> innocent people being executed....and it has happened before.
When I was a youngster, I had no qualms about capital punishment. As
I got older, I read more and more incidents of people being convicted
and sent to death row let's say, 20 years ago, and then being found
innocent based on DNA evidence, a key witness recanting, etc. I became
convinced that there were big problems with capital punishment.
Several years ago, I read something in the press about one of the
midwest states (Illinois???) where some public interest group had
uncovered evidence which demonstrated that three or four men sitting
on death row were actually innocent. The governor of that state was
so appalled, that he ordered an immediate moratorium on ALL death
penalty cases in his state. He realized (as did I) that if even 5% of
the people sentenced to die were innocent, that demonstrated a
tremendous problem with "the system."
The good news in those cases is that the men had not yet been
executed. Even though they had been robbed of several years of their
lives, they could be released, compensated and reunited with their
families. I shudder when I think, "What if one or more of them were
executed???"
Fattuchus
I would not say it is "widely" applied in the US.
so it doesn't sound like its justice system
> believes that much in that "warhouse...".
Warhouse?????????
Fattuchus
Good question. I don't know the answer.
But based on what I read IF Israel does have the death penalty, it is
very, very rarely applied.
Israel has dozens of Arab prisoners, many incarcerated for terrorist
activity or supporting terrorist activity. I can't recall reading
about any state executions (although there may have been, I just don't
know about it). But I've read quote a few newspaper articles where an
Arab terrorist group will kidnap an Israeli or two (and in some cases,
kill them) and then Israel will release dozens of Arab prisoners in
exchange for the live or dead Israeli.
It's very one sided . . . . one Israeli is returned for, let's say,
100 Arab prisoners. Then these prisoners have the chance to rearm and
kill more Israelis.
Fattuchus
Perhaps if a case can be a death penalty case, the burden of proof at
the penalty phase can be extremely high and there can be specific
requirements as to what type of evidence is needed.
Fattuchus
Here is a Wiki article:
Fattuchus
According to the Wiki article, Israel does allow for the death
penalty, but there are so many restrictions, it is rarely used. Only
two people have been executed in Israel since 1948. One was Adolph
Eichmann. The other was an Israeli soldier charged with treason. He
was executed, but later found to be innocent.
Crisstti
>
> - Show quoted text -
That is the word Rich used!, I myself am not sure what it means.
Crisstti
Oh I would. I can't remember the numbers, but I know that a lot of
people are executed every year, and that many are now in death row. I
Chile - when there was death penalty - there was a case every 5 years
or more (I know there is a lot more people in the US, but still), and
in any case the presidet always ended up pardoning them.
Unless you mean it's not widly applied because not all states have it
(do most states have the death penalty...?).
> so it doesn't sound like its justice system
>
> > believes that much in that "warhouse...".
>
> Warhouse?????????- Hide quoted text -
Crisstti
>
> - Show quoted text -
That sounds good, yeah. Otherwise just life...
About evidence, I think they don't allow death penalty sentences with
just hearsay evidence, though it might not be on all states.
Crisstti
>
> - Show quoted text -
God, that is terrible.
I guess that is why they don't use it now.
Actually, I'm completely against death penalty for those "treason to
the country" changes. It's absurd. IF you're going to allow
something like the death penalty, then it should be for things like
raping and killing children (or grown people, for that matter), of a
really grousome murder... nothing else, I'd say.
And in Chile the death penaly still exists for treason in the
military. Absurd...
RichL
About 3/4 of the states have the death penalty, if I remember right, but
many that still have it on the books haven't used it for years.
There is a wide variation in frequency of usage. Texas is #1.
Crisstti
True.
> > I think that the fact that the state has to pay people to kill
> > someone... that someone's job can be to do something like that is what
> > unltimately make me be against it (though on some cases I'm still not
> > completely sure).
>
> Well, sure, a lot of people get paid who are associated with putting the
> people to death.
>
Yeah. I actually think the "method" they had here was more
acceptable. They were executed by a firing squad. And people didn't
know which one of them had shot the person.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >>> However, if there is absolutely no doubt that the murderer or rapist
> >>> did the crime, (i.e. Dr. Hasan at Ft. Hood) I have no problem with
> >>> it.
>
> >> Unfortunately, I don't think they can write laws with language like
> >> "....not unless we're really really sure!"
> >> It's such a cliche in this debate, but the old warhorse "better that
> >> 100 guilty men go free than one innocent man go to prison" - or
> >> however it goes exactly - anyway I really believe it in my heart,
> >> it's at the heart of what makes the American justice system special I
> >> think, and though it's not always easy to follow through with, I
> >> think we should adhere to it.
>
> >> richforman- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Not sure I'm following you. The death penalty exists and is widly
> > applied in the US, so it doesn't sound like its justice system
> > believes that much in that "warhouse...".
>
> True. But that doesn't stop those of us who oppose the penalty from
> trying to change things.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Crisstti
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks for the info :).
So, it seems it's pretty widly used by any account.
topaz
> On Nov 19, 7:45 pm, The Walrus was Danny <dannyisthewal...@tesco.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 20 Nov, 00:14, BLACKPOOLJIMMY <Chippandf...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > Wonderful.
>
> > > Being a capitalist.....I plan on selling t-shirts as soon as I can get
> > > them silk screened.
>
> > > TRY EM THEN FRY EM ... is the logo.
>
> > > Gonna make a fortune.
>
> > > Tee's, hats, buttons, bumper stickers.
>
> > I don't agree with the death penalty.
>
> > Danny
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
If they are found guilty by our laws, they should get the death
penalty however I would figure out some way to do it so that in their
own belief system, they are not martyrs but sinners and in their own
minds they will go to Hell. They should be made not to view death as
a victory for their cause.
Bernie Woodham
>
>
> If they are found guilty by our laws, they should get the death
> penalty however I would figure out some way to do it so that in their
> own belief system, they are not martyrs but sinners and in their own
> minds they will go to Hell. They should be made not to view death as
> a victory for their cause.
We'll just distribute fliers in the Arab countries with pictures of
you giving them hugs.
BLACKPOOLJIMMY
>
> - Show quoted text -
OK....Find some towering building ready for demolition, lock em in at
the highest point..set said building on fire and sit back.
topaz
Aaaaaawwww, how nice. LOLOLOL. You are funny. Or we could have them
pose naked with 72 naked women as a new version of the "Two Virgins"
album cover, and call it "72 virgins plus one nonvirgin male" or
something.
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
I think our constitution might declare that cruel and unusual
punishment....for the building :) Seriously we need to figure out a
way so that they view themselves as sinners within the context of
their own faith then execute them. I would not want them to have the
satisfaction of thinking "I am going to heaven and 72 virgins are
awaiting me and I am a martyr for God". No I would want them to
believe "I am going to Hell and there is nothing I can do about it"
Fattuchus
I guess everything is relative. The US is a country of 300 million
people. Thousands of thousands of violent crimes occur each year.
As far as your question, not all states have the death penalty. I
don't know how many. Some states that do have the death penalty apply
it in very limited cases (like New YOrk)
Fattuchus
I can think of a couple of ways . . . death by lethal injection of
alcohol, for example.
Strange as this may sound, I would have to know more about the
particular cases and the evidence against these four terrorists. I did
see on the news that the leader (whose name I can't recall) did admit
to the crime. If he freely admitted to the crime, then I have no
problem with him getting the death penalty, if he is found guilty.
However, what I don't like is when people are convicted of a capital
offense on questionable circumstantial evidence. Then they are
sentenced to death and years later, the prosecutor's case falls apart.
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes I like your idea of an injection with alcohol, or how about firing
squad with bullets that have some kind of pig content on them?
Crisstti
>
> - Mostrar texto de la cita -
OK. This is a little disturbing.
Really.
Crisstti
>
> - Mostrar texto de la cita -
I've read about the cases that the death penalty is applied to (not
necessarily in New York), and I would not call that "limited cases".
RichL
I agree. It's out of line.
RichL
LOLOLOLOLOL! That's hilarious!
What would you call it if it were the beliefs of Jews being ridiculed?
Bernie Woodham
This is another thing I find wrong with capital punishment. People
just get carried away in their malice.
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
To this jihadists, they value death more than life. I believe that in
their death they should not have the mental victory that they are
going to heaven to be with 72 virgins awaiting for them etc. My
belief is that these individuals were pre meditated murderers who
killed in the name of their God. I blieve in the death penalty for
premeditated murder, and I understand if some people disagree, but
that is what I believe. In addition at least one of the accused has
already confessed to the crime. I am sure he knows what penalty
awaits him possibly in our legal sysgtem whether it be by military
tribunal or elsewhere. We should not allow the execution of any of
these killers to be a victory in their minds, that is my point. As
for the argument that they should just go to jail, well, alot of the
jihadist conversion is occuring in jails, all in the name of
religious freedom and the idea that "well I am a criminal in jail and
now I have found God". These individuals are accused of planning or
contributing to the deaths of 3000 Americans of all different
backgrounds. From my perspective they deserve no mercy.
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
How quickly we have forgotten the deaths of 3000 people, mainly
American, and what we must do to keep our country safe. If a
premeditated killer believes that when he dies he is going to Heaven
as a martyr with 72 virgins awaiting for him, would you really want to
give him the satisfaction of believing that? Not me.
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeh, and that never happens does it? (sarcasm intended). I think
when Jews stand up and say "I value death more than life and I am
killing nonbelievers in the name of God" today in modern times, let me
know.
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
I understand your opinion. You are entitled to it. Did you watch the
Twin Towers collapse LIVE, as it happened? I watched it as it happened
on television, while it was happening. I saw, LIVE, on TV from a video
camera on top of another tower in NY City as the second plane slammed
into the South Tower of the Twin Towers. I thought at first it was a
joke, like someone was playing a scene from a science fiction movie
and I pinched myself as I saw the second plane hit. I had turned on
my TV and I heard Dan Rather a night time newsman reporting saying "we
have just received a report that the North Tower of the Twin Towers
has been hit by an airplane. Here is a live view and the top floors
are on fire." I watched as people fell from 80 stories up and were
hanging from the windows with no escape. I heard the screams of
witnesses LIVE as the towers collapsed. I know at least one woman
fell from that very tall skyscraper while she was on fire. I saw it.
I wondered why this news man who works only at nght was reporting at
8:30 or or so in the morning and I knew if he was reporting it was a
very big story. He has been on TV for decades.
We must never forget all the people who died in those planes, who died
in the crash of flight 93 in Pennsylvania, or the Towers or the
Pentagon. Our country is already forgetting like it is way in the
past, like a battle forgotten in the dust bins of time. However the
men who planned this attack are still alive and others are spreading
their beliefs while we are all asleep.
I am going to cut and paste a link that will remind people what these
men who are on trial are accused of doing.....WARNING; THIS HAS VERY
VIOLENT AND DISTURBING CONTENT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgQdZgojOFI
You will see in the beginning of the video and around 1 minute what
happened to the Twin Towers (also called the World Trade Center). I
know there are people out there who think the man who made this video
is hateful or bigoted. However what we all need to realize is that
there are jihadists out there, free and unrestricted, who still are
planning future attacks. There religious beliefs have not gone away.
These men who are on trial are accused of plotting thr 9/11 attacks.
The victims are not alive to tell us how they suffered and what they
lost. We must always remember them and never forget the sacrifice of
al those brave emergency personnel. Fortunately not all Muslims
believe in such a strict interpretation of their faith, however the
men accused of mastermining the 9/11 attacks still do. In their minds
they will go to heaven as heroes, heroes for killing 3000 "infidels".
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
So if these jihadists were to be found guilty, what punishment would
you feel is fair?
topaz
> because I don't think the state should have the power over life and
> death (including a involuntary draft), as well as the obvious - that
> the state is very fallible and will kill innocent people a percentage
> of the time. But if you're going to use it, it's to get rid of the guy
> and get him out of the system.
>
> Do you really think terrorists couldn't rationalize their way out of
> some infidels putting pig fat on a bullet? Or injecting them with
> alcohol? It's a frivolous act of petty vengeance similar to the crown
> of thorns and purple robe the soldiers put on Jesus to mock him as
> "King of the Jews" before he was crucified - that little extra oomph.
> Or terrorists making a Jew swear allegiance to Allah before they
> beheaded them on videotape. It would have no power to make someone
> less of a martyr in their own mind or in the minds of their fellow
> extremists.
>
> If anything bothers the Hasad guy about his crime when he wakes up,
> for example, it'll be the shame he brought on his family of origin. He
> had very little but his faith to live for having no family of his own
> or work in which he believed.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
How would you convince someone, with the jihadist mindset, that they
are not a hero and in fact, committed a terrible crime?
Fattuchus
>
> - Show quoted text -
Good point. But remember, Muslim jihadists believe that by dying "for
the cause" they will go to Paradise and have sex with 72 virgins. I
do think it is fair that IF they are guilty, then whatever their
punishment, it defeats their purpose of going to Paradise. Otherwise
it is not truly a punishment.
Bernie Woodham
>
>
> So if these jihadists were to be found guilty, what punishment would
> you feel is fair?
one night with you.
Fattuchus
>
> - Show quoted text -
Golda Meir said something like, "There will be peace between Jews and
Arabs when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us."
Crisstti
>
> - Show quoted text -
Completely.
Crisstti
>
> - Show quoted text -
I think you're giving too much importance to what they might be
thinking in their minds when they die. What does that have to do with
you?. It's not really in your control. And, in any case, if you
believe in God (and even if you don't), I'm sure all of us can be sure
that if there's a heaven that is not where that kind of people will
go. What they wrongly think at that point is irrelevant, really.
Also, it's not even a thing of mercy, but of decency.
Crisstti
>
> - Show quoted text -
Some people you just cannot convince. Let it go. It should be enough
that they are in prison and, if guilty, will stay there or be executed.
Crisstti
>
> - Show quoted text -
I don't see how doing any of the things you suggested would help keep
the US or any other country safe. mMayve just the opposite.
Crisstti
>
> - Show quoted text -
No, I did not watch it live. I was asleep.
It is indeed terrible, and I don't see anyone suggesting otherwise.
That is what the justice system is for.
Also, there are even worse crimes. Men who rape and kill little
children, for example. I don't think I can think of anything worse.
Do you think men who have done that feel any remorse?. What do you
think should be done to them?. The fact is, that for some crimes no
punishment is fitting enough. No punishment seems quite enough. ANd
there's nothing we can do about it. Unless you want those people to
be raped and then killed. Or to go back to hanging them in a public
place with people throwing things at them.
I think we should be careful with certain violent insticts.
Be greatefull that you have a real life penalty (without parole) in
there. We don't here. Until quite recently we only had alife penalty
with which people are eligible for parole after 20 years. Now, apart
from that one, we have one called "effective" life penalty, but
they're still eligible for parole after 40 years. People were
suggesting a real life penalty, without the posibility of parole after
a recent case where a guy kidnapped, raped and killed a 5 year old
girl.
About the death penalty, I was reading about the Kitty Genovese case,
and well, cases like that make you think about it. I mean, the guy
went to prison, and in an incident kidnapped some people and raped
another woman. To think that he, after what he had done, was allowed
to do that to another woman... and now he's eligible for parole every
two years. What kind of tranquility do the victim's loved ones have?.
Crisstti
>
> - Show quoted text -
Oh it is, because they are not really going to paradise, are they?.
6sicks...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
If they hope to undermine our 'way of life' what better way than to
make us disgard the rule of law becuse we're pissing in our pants over
how scary they are?
6sicks...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
We've already lost twice as many in two ill advised wars, does that
upset you at all?
Just wondering.
6sicks...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Why would you care what any of these scumbags think? The trick would
be ( I think ) to deny them additional support by showing that they
lie about the US, for example when they say we don't use the same
rules with arabs as we do with europeans.
Or would you prefer to continue to recruit for them?
6sicks...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
On that point about believing in god. The god most americans claim to
believe in (no, I don't believe them because they don't act like they
believe) would counsel forgiveness, turn the other cheek and stuff
like that.
But so many 'good christians' like Bush and Cheyney would never even
consider that course of action. (Nor do I endorse it, but you gotta
walk it like you talk it or shut the fuck up). Jesus' fan club, by and
large, seem to me to be vengeful, vindictive and downright nasty in
most cases. Nothing like the behavior hs is supposed to have endorsed.
6sicks...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
You worry about punishment a lot, I'll be you have lots of photos of
Betty Page locked away somewhere, don't you?
:-)
BLACKPOOLJIMMY
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
It does me.
Fattuchus
It's important because it is part of the killers' motive. Their
motive is to be made a "martyr." And their countrymen may see them as
martyrs. It partially defeats the purpose of the punishment to give
them what they want.
Fattuchus
A few of the people who died as a result of the attacks on September
11 were little children. And I doubt that the terrorists felt any
remorse.
I am not aware that any of the terrorists committed rape, but some of
the people who died as a result of the terrorist attacks on September
11 died brutally, just as bad or worst than being tortured to death.
How would you feel if you were crushed alive under thousands of pounds
of concrete and rubble, had to breathe in dust and smoke, and were
surrounded by heat until you cooked to death or suffocated to death by
yourself in the dark?
After the World Trade Center collapsed, a few people were trapped
alive under the rubble. There were reports that they were phoning for
help from their cell phones. Only a couple of people who had been
trapped were rescued alive.
Some of the people who died in the World Trade Center cooked to death
or caught fire and burnt to death. Not everyone died instantly.
Some were exposed to such incredible heat and smoke, they chose to
jump from the 70 or 80 floors up to escape the torture.
Fattuchus
I don't know. I hope not.
Fattuchus
wrote:
Not all religions believe that. It is my understanding the
Christianity teaches that, but not all Americans are Christian.
I don't believe Judaism teaches that exactly. It is my understanding
that the Jewish "G-d" is not as forgiving as the Christian one.
>
> But so many 'good christians' like Bush and Cheyney would never even
> consider that course of action. (Nor do I endorse it, but you gotta
> walk it like you talk it or shut the fuck up). Jesus' fan club, by and
> large, seem to me to be vengeful, vindictive and downright nasty in
> most cases. Nothing like the behavior hs is supposed to have endorsed.-
Forgiveness is one thing.
Cowardice and stupidty are another. Sometimes there is a fine line
between the two.
Fattuchus
wrote:
Was she into S & M?
If so, hell yeh! :-)
6sicks...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
I think ignoring the law of the land in favor of a lynch mob is
cowardace of the highest order. If they want to destroy our way of
life why should we help?
6sicks...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
How are you so well acquanted with the motivations of these 'people'?
I'm just curious. I can't for the life of me figure out wtf the
problem is with them.
6sicks...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
If you have to ask, I was mistaken.
6sicks...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well, that's what you've been told they've been told.
Fattuchus
I am not sure what you are getting at, but I would agree that ignoring
the "law of the land" (especially American law, if that's what you
mean) is usually an act of cowardice. It depends on all the
circumstances.
Rosa Parks ignored the law of the land.
Dr. Martin Luther King ignored and challenged the law of the land.
I thought they were brave.
Fattuchus
wrote:
I admit I don't know many details about these five terrorists who are
scheduled to go on trial in NY, but I do assume they are like other
Muslim terrorists and followers of Bin Laden. Based on my study of
Islam and my reading about other Muslim terrorist attacks, their goal
is kill as many infidels as possible. If they die in the process of
killing infidels, they believe they will go to Paradise.
Fattuchus
Bernie Woodham
> I'm just curious. I can't for the life of me figure out wtf the
> problem is with them.
Same old same old. *SHE* has studied comparative religion and knows
that all arabs are out to kill jews. From her immense studies of the
matter she has been able to conclude that 1000 arabs should die for
every jew killed.
Crisstti
>
> - Show quoted text -
I wouldn't say it's part of their motive. They might think they will
go to heaven if they die while killing "infidels", but that doesn't
mean that they wish to die. I guess that if they would have the
resouces to do attacks another way, they'd ratehr not die.
In any case, you should just let it go. There's no way of changing
some people minds. There's nothing you can do abouit it. And to try
and speculate about sadistic punishments... it's just useless. And it
doesn't do anyone any good, much less to those doing the speculation.
If them being seen as martyrs worries you so much, then they should
better get life, shouldn't they?.
BLACKPOOLJIMMY
>
> - Show quoted text -
War will never end. Hate will never end...
Beatles will never end....AND THAT GIVES ME GREAT HOPE. Take a sad
song and make it better.
RichL
So that justifies treating them as sub-humans? How much we've forgotten
since the days of the Holocaust.
Remember, we're supposed to be better than them.
Impartial justice, administered fairly and in accord with our
principles, no more, no less. Otherwise, not only are we being
hypocritical, we also feed *their* thirst for revenge and fuel the
endless cycle of violence.
RichL
Which is why I'd prefer to see them rot in jail. No martyrdom, thanks.
Dale Houstman
>
> Also, it's not even a thing of mercy, but of decency.
Yes, but you should understand that - for a certain kind of American -
both "mercy" and "decency" are cover words for "effeminate" and
"possibly gay" and "sorta French" and "what a commie!"... Their very
words reveal the best reason to oppose the death penalty (which has been
noted by many writers): that it coarsens the spirit and mind of every
one who observes it, or cheers the slaughter on, and leads often to the
very social behavior its supporters pretend to abhor - murderous
thought, and callous disregard for life, treating every potential for
the penalty as if it were an opportunity to revel in mass mayhem, and in
the ugliest portions of their own corrupted and/or thwarted desire.
dmh
topaz
> On Nov 23, 7:16 am, topaz <topazgal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > So if these jihadists were to be found guilty, what punishment would
> > you feel is fair?
>
> one night with you.
Good one Bernie. Wait, I have to go find my veil and my burka......Oh
yes, it has been said in the holy writings that even on a saddle of
a camel a wife should submit to her husband so maybe I will have to
find a camel as well and figure out what position works for us while I
wear my burka. LOL.
topaz
> > when Jews stand up and say "I value death more than life and I am
> > killing nonbelievers in the name of God" today in modern times, let me
> > know.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Arabs when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us."- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Great saying; reminds me of the song by Sting called Russians
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rk78eCIx4E
topaz
> On Nov 23, 8:29 am, topaz <topazgal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 22, 3:21 pm, Crisstti <crissttigalda...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
>
> > > OK. This is a little disturbing.
>
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
>
> It is indeed terrible, and I don't see anyone suggesting otherwise.
> That is what the justice system is for.
> Also, there are even worse crimes. Men who rape and kill little
> children, for example. I don't think I can think of anything worse.
> think should be done to them?. The fact is, that for some crimes no
> punishment is fitting enough. No punishment seems quite enough. ANd
> there's nothing we can do about it. Unless you want those people to
> be raped and then killed. Or to go back to hanging them in a public
> place with people throwing things at them.
>
> I think we should be careful with certain violent insticts.
>
> Be greatefull that you have a real life penalty (without parole) in
> there. We don't here. Until quite recently we only had alife penalty
> with which people are eligible for parole after 20 years. Now, apart
> from that one, we have one called "effective" life penalty, but
> they're still eligible for parole after 40 years. People were
> suggesting a real life penalty, without the posibility of parole after
> a recent case where a guy kidnapped, raped and killed a 5 year old
> girl.
>
> About the death penalty, I was reading about the Kitty Genovese case,
> and well, cases like that make you think about it. I mean, the guy
> went to prison, and in an incident kidnapped some people and raped
> another woman. To think that he, after what he had done, was allowed
> to do that to another woman... and now he's eligible for parole every
> two years. What kind of tranquility do the victim's loved ones have?.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
You have some valid points.
Peace of mind for the family members of the victum who is murdered I
do think is very important. I am glad we have life in prison without
any chance for parole for certain crimes. Of course our system is such
that cases must be proved beyond reasonable doubt. I feel sorry for
any country that does not. If you feel it is worse for a man to rape
and kill a child, pedophilia is going on right now in the Middle East.
Did you know Mohammad married his favorite wife at the age of 6 and
consummated the marriage when she was 9? There have been cases in
the Middle East in Muslim countries where girls as young as 10 are
applying for divorce. True, the girl is alive and trying to get a
divorce, however, if the husband or another family member even
suspects she is commiting adultery or some other dishonor to the
family, she often can be killed as part of an honor killing. Honor
killings are occuring here even, in the United States and it is a
real tragedy.
There also have been cases among the "Palestinians:" where a young
woman believes that the only way to restore her honor is to strap on a
hidden bomb belt and blow herself up near some Israelis and by killing
some infidels her honor in heaven will be restored. As the Fort Hood
Killer said in his slide show they value death more than life.
topaz
wrote:
> upset you at all?
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
I agree with you that the wars are controversial; I think it is way
too early to judge how "ill advised" the current wars are. To me,
one of the tragedies of our entering Iraq and defeating Sadam Hussein
is that his country, a Sunni country with a somewhat secular leader,
was an enemy of Iran a Shite country. These two countries in a way
competed for influence in the region and had a terrible war with each
other. As the Arab saying goes "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."
By toppling Sadam we allowed the Iranian influence to gain strength in
the area. That is the ironic tragedy of the fall of Iraq. If we had
allowed Iraq and Iran to hate each other it may have possibly served
US interests better, however the oil in the region would have been at
risk. We will never know how many Kurds and natives of both countries
may have died in the process. The real tragedy to me is that
jihadists exist.
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
And as I posted at another thread, ignoring the law of the land can
lead to an insanity defense....see the case of Dr Hasan the Ft Hood
killer whose lawyer is now planning an insanity defense.
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
The problem I have with "rotting in jail" is that alot of conversions
to Islam, especially the violent branches of it, are documented to be
occuring in jail.
I suppose if a jihadist is condemned to solitary confinement, with no
communication with the outside so that his hate filled messages cannot
be transmitted it might be an acceptable second to the death penalty.
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
You have a point however, jihadists not only have a thirst for revenge
but even if that thirst were removed, they still want to kill us
because we are infidels. Remember for infidels there are a few choices
under Sharia law 1. if you are Jewish or Christian you can convert,
die, or pay a ridiculous tax and obey all kinds of rules that remind
you that you are of second class status 2. if you are Hindu or a
polytheist, or possibly an atheist, you have 2 choices: convert or
die. Paying the tax and being treated as a subhuman are not an option.
BLACKPOOLJIMMY
Of course. He's a defense attorney.
Hasan is now paralized from the neck down...justice already.
RichL
(must....hate....more....must.....hate....more....)
RichL
So let's all stoop to their level! Whoopie!!!!
Bernie Woodham
>
>
> You have a point however, jihadists not only have a thirst for revenge
> but even if that thirst were removed, they still want to kill us
> because we are infidels. Remember for infidels there are a few choices
> under Sharia law 1. if you are Jewish or Christian you can convert,
> die, or pay a ridiculous tax and obey all kinds of rules that remind
> you that you are of second class status 2. if you are Hindu or a
> polytheist, or possibly an atheist, you have 2 choices: convert or
> die. Paying the tax and being treated as a subhuman are not an option.
So convert. Big deal. How many people in this country give lip service
to God, country and Jesus without meaning a word of it?
What's it matter? Convert and continue your shopping at Walmart.
Bernie Woodham
Sure. Two humps are better than one.
Fattuchus
>
> > It's important because it is part of the killers' motive. Their
> > motive is to be made a "martyr." And their countrymen may see them as
> > martyrs. It partially defeats the purpose of the punishment to give
> > them what they want.
>
> Which is why I'd prefer to see them rot in jail. No martyrdom, thanks.-
There are a couple of problems with having them rot in jail.
First, it would be very very expensive at a time when our economy
cannot afford it. They would require tremendous security. Their
imprisonment would cause years of unwanted attention, time, effort,
money, etc.
Secondly, as I explained above, Israel has its accused terrorists rot
in jail. Then various terrorist groups like Hizbollah or Hamas kidnap
Israelis, hold them hostage (and in some cases, kill them) and then
down the road Israel and the terrorists make a deal: Israel gives the
terrorists, let's say 100 live men from their prisons, and the
terrorists give Israel one or two men, dead or alive. It's very
lopsided.
If these terrorists are allowed to live, I predict that Osama Bin
Laden and those who follow his path will kidnap Americans (such as
American soldiers or diplomats), hold them hostage, and then try to
play "let's deal."
Fattuchus
"Saddle of a camel" , huh? So, who is on top . . . the man or the
woman . . . . And where is the camel while all this is going on?
Fattuchus
> On Nov 23, 12:20 pm, Crisstti <crissttigalda...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > About the death penalty, I was reading about the Kitty Genovese case,
> > and well, cases like that make you think about it. I mean, the guy
> > went to prison, and in an incident kidnapped some people and raped
> > another woman. To think that he, after what he had done, was allowed
> > to do that to another woman... and now he's eligible for parole every
> > two years. What kind of tranquility do the victim's loved ones have?.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> You have some valid points.
> Peace of mind for the family members of the victum who is murdered I
> do think is very important. I am glad we have life in prison without
> any chance for parole for certain crimes. Of course our system is such
> that cases must be proved beyond reasonable doubt. I feel sorry for
> any country that does not. If you feel it is worse for a man to rape
> and kill a child, pedophilia is going on right now in the Middle East.
Not just pedophilia. How about sex slavery? Many women are held
against their wills and forced into prostitution or "marriage."
And how about the Arab practive of child "marriages"?
So, Crissti, what do you think of that? You know, where an Arab
father arranges for his 11 year old daughter to "marry" some rich guy
so she can have sex when she's 12 and be a mother when she's 13? This
goes on all the time in Arab countries.
Fattuchus
I read he was paralysed . . . I did not know it was from the neck
down.
So, who will pay for his medical bills? His care will cost millions
upon millions of dollars.
I don't want my tax dollars paying for Hasan's home care, medical
care. How sick is that?