Lennon's fingering for Gminor
Ethan C.
Has anyone noticed how John's fingerings for Gm and F#m seem to be
very different from the usual barre styles?
Example:
On the Hard Day's Night video, fast-forward to the "If I Fell"
segment. Lennon plays the verse chords D Em and then F#m. Notice how
his thumb wraps around the neck, and not behind it as many of us would
have played F#m.
Example 2:
I came across this website promoting "how to play beatles songs
correctly" videos. It had a video clip of the instructor playing
Nowhere Man, where he fingers the Gm exactly like John. It is not the
usual barre style.
Here's a link to the clip
http://www.to-a-tee.tv/videos/nowhere_man.mpg
Here's a picture in case you are bandwidth limited (like me
:)http://www.geocities.com/cqyyong/gminor.jpg
I've searched the beatles and alt.guitar newsgroups but cannot find a
resonable solution. Can anyone figure out the actual fingering for
John's Gminor?
Thanks
Chung
paramucho
I guess it's as you say -- a half-barre across the three highest
sounding strings, and the thumb wrapped around on the third fret. The
index and middle fingers play the usual notes.
-3- 2nd \
-3- 2nd | half barre
-3- 2nd /
-5- 3rd
-5- 3rd
-3- Thumb wrapped
I guess it's possible that Harrison does it to. They seem to have
shared shapes. They both play that four-finger D shape as a moveable
chord, i.e. xx4232 as well -- maybe lotsa people use that shape, but
I've only seen the Beatles using it so far.
--
Ian
Impressive If Haughty - Q Magazine
Doug Campbell
Sure. It would be 3(thumb) 5(ring) 5(pinky) 333(index)
I noticed on the .mpg the guitarist is playing the standard D shape
(x00232) I think JL generally preferred the D chord with his pinky on
the 4th string, 4th fret (x04232 OR 204232)
DC
Doug Campbell
LOL! Identical answers and additional chord trivia simultaneously from
opposite ends of the planet. What a medium!
DC
paramucho
Well, I was thinking of you. I was thinking "am I gonna supply DC with
yet another finger pattern typo to correct?" So, when I saw your
response, I thought, "shit, I've blown it *again*".
Apparently I only get it right when the global constellation is right!
paramucho
Again with the thumb wrapped.
Isn't that a common banjo thing?
PC-31
"paramucho" <i...@hammo.com> wrote in message
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many players use that technique(those that can).
most noteably hendrix, who virtually had two fretting hands
paramucho
<do...@sickofjunkmaine.rr.com> wrote:
>Sure. It would be 3(thumb) 5(ring) 5(pinky) 333(index)
>I noticed on the .mpg the guitarist is playing the standard D shape
>(x00232) I think JL generally preferred the D chord with his pinky on
>the 4th string, 4th fret (x04232 OR 204232)
I have problems playing the shape on my fat acoustic. I have to hold
the fretboard up pretty high. Of course, it's a cinch on an electric.
Now, the semi-acoustic git that Lennon's playing in the jpeg seems to
have a the fretboard of an electric. Is this something obvious that
everyone except me already knows?
Note to anyone who wants to start a new Beatles website but doesn't
know what to put on it: Simple, find lots more photos like this jpeg
and assemble a libary of close-up shots of the Beatles playing their
instruments.
paramucho
Well, now I think about it Django Reinhardt had no choice but to use
his thumb.
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Hendrix had an extra hand. He's
still the guitar gaffer as far as this lad goes.
Mike
guitarists. You will see Lennon and Harrison do this a lot on a lot of
minor chords. More often than not muting the E string to ensure it does not
get played. In fact you will see them play actual "full barre" minors in
proper fashion for other songs, hence when they play the root note on the e
string.
Proper holding of the neck in barre chords should not be palmed so to speak,
but with the thumb placed properly on the middle of the neck.
"Ethan C." <cqy...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Mike Beauchamp
how I play all of my barre chords actually.. minor and major.
I know hendrix uses his thumb a lot, but I do it because my hands are really
damn small, and it just seems a lot more comfortable on the wrist,
definatley more natural. Plus, that's how I taught myself.
"Ethan C." <cqy...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Gordon Campbell
musicians....big difference....you forget the Beatles started out as
self-taught skiffle players (thank God) because if they had gone to music
college they probably would have become so frustrated and bored with the
"proper methods" and regimentations that we would not be discussing them
today...
"Mike" <mot...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
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Mike
a rock musician, but not properly trained!
"Gordon Campbell" <gcamp...@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
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R A F
You will see Lennon and Harrison do this a lot on a lot of minor chords.
Playing chords without the full barre is common in bands where the guitarist
feels the bass and/or keys adequately cover that spectrum. BTW the first time I
saw anyone do this it was Eric Clapton in the Concert for Bangla Desh film.
Dave
> guitarists. You will see Lennon and Harrison do this a lot on a lot
of
> minor chords. More often than not muting the E string to ensure it
does not
> get played. In fact you will see them play actual "full barre" minors
in
> proper fashion for other songs, hence when they play the root note on
the e
> string.
>
> Proper holding of the neck in barre chords should not be palmed so to
speak,
> but with the thumb placed properly on the middle of the neck.
Speaking of barre chords...
I have *always* had problems with the Bb major-style barre chord
(x13331). How do most non-classical guitarists play this one? I know a
number of people simply mute the highest string, but I always considered
this to be a cop-out.
--Dave
Jason Paris
There's something else about John's guitar playing that hooks my ear
everytime I hear it. It's especially prominent with his acoustic
work.
When playing a D chord, John tends to play the open A string. Not
particularly unusual of course, but he really seems to *whack* that
open A, making it a clear indicator of his playing (for those seeking
to pick John's guitar outta the mix). Interestingly, the tone of
John's open A resembles - to my ears - that of a piano string.
Off the top of my head, this is heard *very* clearly on the 'This Boy'
intro, the 'Run For Your Life' intro, and throughout 'Eight Days A
Week'. There are certainly others!
Speaking of the 'This Boy' intro, I've always found the following
aspects of it fascinating.
Firstly, the guitar sound is *very* distinctive, and inconsistent with
the rest of the ac. guitar work on the track. This suggests an edit
piece where John actually used a different guitar (or different
tuning).
To do this for *just* 3 chords of the song seems unusually expedient
for late '63 Beatles recordings (which were typically done very
quickly, with little messing about).
Secondly, if John *did* use standard tuning for this intro piece, his
fingering of the first 3 chords would have been:
E A D G B E
x o 4 2 3 2
| | | |_ Index finger barre
| | |___ middle finger
| |_____ Index finger barre
|_______ Ring finger
E A D G B E
x o 2 2 3 3
| | | |_ Index finger barre
| | |___ middle finger
| |_____ Index finger barre
|_______ Index finger barre
E A D G B E
x o 4 2 3 2
| | | |_ Index finger barre
| | |___ middle finger
| |_____ Index finger barre
|_______ Ring finger
No disrespect to John, but this fingering seem a little ambitious for
his '63 playing.
And finally - speaking of the early Beatles' interesting use of chords
- I've always loved their use of the standard C7 shape, moved up the
fretboard. Eg:
'D7'
E A D G B E
x 5 4 5 3 x
It gives such a wonderfully rich sound, I don't understand why it's
rarely used these days!
All the best,
Jason
Doug Campbell
...and jazz guitarists do it all the time and have for years. Freddie
Green, arguably the greatest rhythm guitarist ever, played incredibly
spare chords, 2 or 3 notes max, often even only 1, in order to not crowd
a harmonic area that was already occupied by other instruments such as
piano or bass, or to move melodically into another area that needed
filling out.
DC
Mike
sullivan, one week they play all my loving starting on f#m then the next
week em. Ok, not a biggie I guess, but sometimes a jump like that takes a
little to get used to for some of us.
Lennon always seemed to play that d hitting the pinky on the g 4th fret
"Jason Paris" <jamb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Weasel
"Dave" <dc_was...@yahooXYZ.invalid> wrote >
> Speaking of barre chords...
>
> I have *always* had problems with the Bb major-style barre chord
> (x13331). How do most non-classical guitarists play this one? I know a
> number of people simply mute the highest string, but I always considered
> this to be a cop-out.
I started out playing this one using the pinky for the little barre (as it
was much easier to miss the high e) and still do it that way most of the
time. I used to think of that as "cheating" but have been playing way too
long now to worry about being proper.
-=weasel=-
Doug Campbell
>
> Speaking of the 'This Boy' intro,
<snip>
> Secondly, if John *did* use standard tuning for this intro piece, his
> fingering of the first 3 chords would have been:
>
> E A D G B E
> x o 4 2 3 2
> | | | |_ Index finger barre
> | | |___ middle finger
> | |_____ Index finger barre
> |_______ Ring finger
>
>
> E A D G B E
> x o 2 2 3 3
> | | | |_ Index finger barre
> | | |___ middle finger
> | |_____ Index finger barre
> |_______ Index finger barre
Halt - Finger Police!
You mean x0223 *2* I think...you can't barre across 2 "2"s and a "3"
The chord pattern in the intro is:
x04232, x02232, x04232. Listen, you can hear the high F# ringing across
the 3 chords.
>
>
> No disrespect to John, but this fingering seem a little ambitious for
> his '63 playing.
I don't think so - given the above correction, it's a really simple
shape and he just picks one finger up and then puts it back down...
DC
paramucho
Which is what guitarists do with their fingers. Particularly when
they've got a little finger as long as John's.
paulisme
> Speaking of barre chords...
>
> I have *always* had problems with the Bb major-style barre chord
> (x13331). How do most non-classical guitarists play this one? I know a
> number of people simply mute the highest string, but I always considered
> this to be a cop-out.
>
> --Dave
I used to play it like this:
E A D G B E
x 1 3 3 3 1
| | | | |___index barre
| | | |_____pinky
| | |_______ring
| |_________middle
|___________index barre
Until I got lazy. Now I play it like this:
E A D G B E
x 1 3 x 3 1
| | | | |___index barre
| | | |_____pinky
| | |_______mute with index & ring
| |_________ring
|___________index barre
This way it's easier for me to switch between chords. It's the same
fingering as Bb7, except I mute the G string so I don't get the minor
7th note in the chord. If you'd like, I'll post a cover I did of "And
I Love Her" so you can hear what it sounds like.
Paul
Mister Charlie
"Doug Campbell" <do...@sickofjunkmaine.rr.com> wrote in message
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Dave
news:beea49a9.0302...@posting.google.com...
> This way it's easier for me to switch between chords. It's the same
> fingering as Bb7, except I mute the G string so I don't get the minor
> 7th note in the chord. If you'd like, I'll post a cover I did of "And
> I Love Her" so you can hear what it sounds like.
Please do, Paul!
--Dave
Jason Paris
> > x o 2 2 3 3
> > | | | |_ Index finger barre
> > | | |___ middle finger
> > | |_____ Index finger barre
> > |_______ Index finger barre
>
> Halt - Finger Police!
> You mean x0223 *2* I think...you can't barre across 2 "2"s and a "3"
Of course! Sorry..... my typo!
> > No disrespect to John, but this fingering seem a little ambitious for
> > his '63 playing.
> I don't think so - given the above correction, it's a really simple
> shape and he just picks one finger up and then puts it back down...
Agreed. Yet, there's something about the *clarity* of the individual
notes of those chords that strikes me as "strange".
Generally speaking, it's kinda tricky to maintain the clarity of the
top F# when playing those 3 shapes. Yet John does it here, and I
kinda feel that an alternate tuning may have been responsible. The
strings seem to have a "slackness" that's inconsistent with a
standard-tuned guitar.
(That's what I meant by "ambitious" - not that John couldn't play it,
but that he seems to have gone to a lotta trouble to make a mere 3
chords sound "weird"; it seems out-of-kilter with John's "let's make
this record QUICK" attitude of the early '60s.)
I can't really put my finger on it: does anyone else agree that
there's *something* strange about the sound of that intro? Almost
like it's not a guitar at all - but some other string instrument??
However, they did of course play 'This Boy' live many times. I've
tried to catch how John does it in the 'Antho' vid, but can't quite
see. Of course, those 3 fingerings would've been easier to pull of on
an electric neck.
All the best,
Jason
Mike
"Jason Paris" <jamb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Mike
wrong on that.
"Jason Paris" <jamb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Doug Campbell
Technically no, not in isolation, although in an ensemble it can
certainly suggest or create chords in relation to the other instruments.
I think what is meant when you hear reference to Green's 'one note
chording' is that he would finger multiple note chords but often only
sound the one note of the chord that defined it or worked against the
other instrument voicings.
DC
paulisme
Let me know what you think.
Paul
"Dave" <dc_was...@yahooXYZ.invalid> wrote in message
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Dave
Very nice, Paul! And faithful to the original feel, too.
Perhaps because I was only listening on my cheap computer speakers, but
it was hard for me to hear the higher notes of the rhythm guitar. Would
you terribly mind spelling the chords? For example, E6 = 022120. (From
your earlier post, I'm assuming you played B as x24x42)
BTW, I have the somewhat useful "The Complete Beatles, Volumes One and
Two" sheet music book.And I know it's a G5 rather than a Gm chord played
in the outro.
Thanks again, Paul!
--Dave
Mister Charlie
> >
> > Can one note be a chord?
>
> Technically no, not in isolation, although in an ensemble it can
> certainly suggest or create chords in relation to the other
instruments.
> I think what is meant when you hear reference to Green's 'one note
> chording' is that he would finger multiple note chords but often only
> sound the one note of the chord that defined it or worked against the
> other instrument voicings.
>
musician I wondered if it was possible.
paulisme
Sorry, the URL I gave above is blocked by Tripod (they don't allow
direct downloading of files). If you want to download the song, go to
http://paulisme.tripod.com/index.html, then click the link that says
"Download And I Love Her".
Paul
paulisme
I used the Beatles Complete Scores as a guide (as far as I'm
concerned, this book is indespensible). Here are the chords I used:
First three verses
---------------------
F#m: 244222
E6: 022120
C#m: x46654
A: x02220
B7: x21202
Middle eight
---------------------
C#m: x46654
B: x24x42
G#m: 466444
Solo and last verse after key change
---------------------
Gm: 355333
Dm: x57765
Bb: x13x31
C: x35x53
F: 133211
Outtro
---------------------
Gm: 355333
Dm: x57765
F: 133211
D: xx0232
Note that some may not be exactly what was in the Complete Scores. By
the way, I never use my thumb to play barre chords. I was taught it
was a bad habit when I first started playing guitar, so I've been in
that mindset for years.
Paul
Jake
tried to catch how John does it in the 'Antho' vid, but can't quite
see. Of course, those 3 fingerings would've been easier to pull of on
an electric neck.>>
I think the sound is a result of that Rickenbacker ring. It's almost
impossible to play on acoustic (at least for my level of ability)
because they strum the chords so fast and with a waltz rhythm. It's a
really odd song. Simple and yet the chords fall in weird places
throughout the lyrics.
The intro I have the most trouble with is If I Fell. The Beatles
Complete Scores shows the opening as:
Eb 6-x-8-8-7-6
D x-5-7-7-7-x
Db x-4-6-6-6-
Bbm7 6-8-6-6-6-6
Ebm 6-x-8-8-7-6
It sounds fine but it's definitely not the way John plays it in Hard
Day's Night because he's way down the neck at the standard D position.
Mike
record is a cat gut guitar added after the fact. Looking at vidoes of them
doing this song, especially the sullivan show in Miami, they don't play the
intro, but go right into the song.
Now you got me pulling out the axe and trying if I fell, again!
I will let you know what I come up with!
"Jake" <jpo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
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