In case you missed Yoko...
Bernie Woodham
there's no copyright infringement:
http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/video/episodes/?vid=1173209#vid=1173209
I don't think the extreme criticism is justified. I'm not a Yoko fan,
but I bet that if the critics didn't KNOW who Yoko Ono was their
perception would be very different.
It gets pretty difficult to classify music, and I'm certainly no
authority, but I don't see this as being much different from what I
would call New Wave, except it is more guitar based than synth based.
AllaBest
> I don't think the extreme criticism is justified.
The band must be getting paid a lot.
It sounded musically a bit like a "Rock Lobster" rip off.
AllaBest
> AllaBest <bip_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > It sounded musically a bit like a "Rock Lobster" rip off.
>
I'm talking about the "Rock Lobster" RIFF musical RIP OFF. Not the
SUPPOSED vocal style "ripoff" that John thought showed how Yoko was
supposedly ahead of her time, fella.
Mack A. Damia
Bummer. I can't access it, and I think it's because I'm in Mexico.
Maybe it will show up on YouTube soon.
--
mad
Fattuchus
> On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 11:20:33 -0800 (PST), Bernie Woodham
>
> >Here's a link to her performance. This is an official link, so
> >there's no copyright infringement:
>
>
> >I don't think the extreme criticism is justified. I'm not a Yoko fan,
> >but I bet that if the critics didn't KNOW who Yoko Ono was their
> >perception would be very different.
>
> >It gets pretty difficult to classify music, and I'm certainly no
> >authority, but I don't see this as being much different from what I
> >would call New Wave, except it is more guitar based than synth based.
>
> Bummer. I can't access it, and I think it's because I'm in Mexico.
>
> Maybe it will show up on YouTube soon.
> --
> mad
She screeched, howled and had orgasms. The usual Yoko stuff.
RichL
That was certifiably awful. Sorry, I know I usually play the Yoko
defender here, but that doesn't mean I accept her music blindly. I
forced myself to listen to it all, hoping I would "get" some redeeming
feature. I didn't.
I did like the guitar player's Jazzmaster, however. And anyone else
notice that the bass guy was playing a "Beatle bass"?
RichL
Dale Houstman
> AllaBest <bip...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> It sounded musically a bit like a "Rock Lobster" rip off.
>
I think it sounded a bit like a "Rock Lobster" rip off too. It makes no
difference if - as the Lennons said - the B52s were influenced by Yoko
(although I still haven't seen any compelling evidence of this, I don't
doubt it), Yoko could still have "channeled" "Rock Lobster" as easily as
she once "channeled" "Making Whoopie"...
dmh
BlackMonk
"Dale Houstman" <dm...@skypoint.com> wrote in message
news:WqudndZTC5ziQmnX...@skypoint.com...
> poisoned rose wrote:
>> AllaBest <bip...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> It sounded musically a bit like a "Rock Lobster" rip off.
>>
>> You have the path of influence backwards there, sport.
>
>
> I think it sounded a bit like a "Rock Lobster" rip off too. It makes no
> difference if - as the Lennons said - the B52s were influenced by Yoko
> (although I still haven't seen any compelling evidence of this, I don't
> doubt it),
Is their saying that they were influenced by Yoko compelling enough?
It started with a similar guitar riff, though it's not so unique that Sean
couldn't have come up with it independently.
Besides, it's not as though rock isn't filled with similar instances of
"borrowed" riffs.
dahldude
>
> That was certifiably awful. Sorry, I know I usually play the Yoko
> defender here, but that doesn't mean I accept her music blindly. I
> forced myself to listen to it all, hoping I would "get" some redeeming
> feature. I didn't.
So we must surmise that in the contemporary days of Apple Records, you
never listened to those 45s and albums. And you weren't really "there"
back then to follow the drama.
> I did like the guitar player's Jazzmaster, however. And anyone else
> notice that the bass guy was playing a "Beatle bass"?
The "guitar player"?!? That's Sean Ono Taro Lennon.
Man, RichL, you may be a lover but you ain't no dancer...
Face it. On the deep level Beatles stuff, you're really old school
Country. Maybe even using the four string uke chords.
RichL
> On Nov 6, 8:19 pm, "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> That was certifiably awful. Sorry, I know I usually play the Yoko
>> defender here, but that doesn't mean I accept her music blindly. I
>> forced myself to listen to it all, hoping I would "get" some
>> redeeming feature. I didn't.
>
> So we must surmise that in the contemporary days of Apple Records, you
> never listened to those 45s and albums. And you weren't really "there"
> back then to follow the drama.
I listened to Beatles 45s and albums, if that's what you mean. Still
got 'em, too, oddly enough.
>> I did like the guitar player's Jazzmaster, however. And anyone else
>> notice that the bass guy was playing a "Beatle bass"?
>
> The "guitar player"?!? That's Sean Ono Taro Lennon.
He *is* the guitar player, isn't he?
>
> Man, RichL, you may be a lover but you ain't no dancer...
>
> Face it. On the deep level Beatles stuff, you're really old school
> Country. Maybe even using the four string uke chords.
Huh?? The "deep level Beatles stuff"? If you mean the gossip, yeah,
I'm really out of it. Sue me.
I like the music, period. What's your beef?
Dale Houstman
> "Dale Houstman" <dm...@skypoint.com> wrote in message
> news:WqudndZTC5ziQmnX...@skypoint.com...
>> poisoned rose wrote:
>>> AllaBest <bip...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It sounded musically a bit like a "Rock Lobster" rip off.
>>> You have the path of influence backwards there, sport.
>>
>> I think it sounded a bit like a "Rock Lobster" rip off too. It makes no
>> difference if - as the Lennons said - the B52s were influenced by Yoko
>> (although I still haven't seen any compelling evidence of this, I don't
>> doubt it),
>
> Is their saying that they were influenced by Yoko compelling enough?
Actually, no... If they had said that "back in the day" maybe so, but
the myth has been around for so long now, I imagine (if it is indeed not
true) they either believe it themselves, or feel it is convenient to say
so. This sort of thing isn't so unusual in the incestuous world of rock
and roll PR/legend-making.
>
> It started with a similar guitar riff, though it's not so unique that Sean
> couldn't have come up with it independently.
>
> Besides, it's not as though rock isn't filled with similar instances of
> "borrowed" riffs.
You're right. I didn't say it was a vicious little theft, and/or that
someone should be staked to a speeding rhino and run over the white
cliffs of Dover for it. But it did sound a bit like "Rock
Lobster"...Which is only "bad" because "rock Lobster" is clearly the
superior song, and thus there is a suffering by comparison. and it still
is irrelevant (to the question of whether or not it WAS a take on "Rock
Lobster" or not) that the B-52s were initially influenced by Yoko. You
can still "cop one" from your acolytes.
dmh
dahldude
> dahldude <dahld...@aol.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 6, 8:19 pm, "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> That was certifiably awful. Sorry, I know I usually play the Yoko
> >> defender here, but that doesn't mean I accept her music blindly. I
> >> forced myself to listen to it all, hoping I would "get" some
> >> redeeming feature. I didn't.
>
> > So we must surmise that in the contemporary days of Apple Records, you
> > never listened to those 45s and albums. And you weren't really "there"
> > back then to follow the drama.
>
> I listened to Beatles 45s and albums, if that's what you mean. Still
> got 'em, too, oddly enough.
Yeah, well, *everyone* has heard the Beatles 45 and albums. I was
referring to Apple Records' releases, more towards the Yoko 45s and
LPs, and whatever was plopped of hers on a JL 45 or LP. And that's
what I was suggesting. There was - for some of us - more than the
music of the Beatles - there was a drama - beyond just buying the
Beatles music like a casual fan that I suggest you were back then. No
matter. Now that we're one step outside the actual point I was making,
you've deflected things.
>
> >> I did like the guitar player's Jazzmaster, however. And anyone else
> >> notice that the bass guy was playing a "Beatle bass"?
>
> > The "guitar player"?!? That's Sean Ono Taro Lennon.
>
> He *is* the guitar player, isn't he?
Deflecting again. Typing "the guitar player" instead of "Sean" seemed
like an obvious labor of ignorance. I see you commented about "Yoko"
instead of "the vocalist", but go ahead, play games.
>
>
>
> > Man, RichL, you may be a lover but you ain't no dancer...
>
> > Face it. On the deep level Beatles stuff, you're really old school
> > Country. Maybe even using the four string uke chords.
>
> Huh?? The "deep level Beatles stuff"? If you mean the gossip, yeah,
> I'm really out of it. Sue me.
No need to be a smartass (again). Just observing your confusedness.
>
> I like the music, period. What's your beef?
Sean was the guitar player. Just setting you stright on the that.
Again.
RichL
> On Nov 6, 10:56 pm, "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> dahldude <dahld...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> On Nov 6, 8:19 pm, "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> That was certifiably awful. Sorry, I know I usually play the Yoko
>>>> defender here, but that doesn't mean I accept her music blindly. I
>>>> forced myself to listen to it all, hoping I would "get" some
>>>> redeeming feature. I didn't.
>>
>>> So we must surmise that in the contemporary days of Apple Records,
>>> you never listened to those 45s and albums. And you weren't really
>>> "there" back then to follow the drama.
>>
>> I listened to Beatles 45s and albums, if that's what you mean. Still
>> got 'em, too, oddly enough.
>
> Yeah, well, *everyone* has heard the Beatles 45 and albums.
> I was referring to Apple Records' releases, more towards the
> Yoko 45s and LPs, and whatever was plopped of hers on a
> JL 45 or LP. And that's what I was suggesting.
OK, I got that. What you don't seem to get is that one can be a
hard-core Beatles aficionado without caring a whit about Yoko's music.
> There was - for some of us - more than the music of the
> Beatles - there was a drama - beyond just buying the
> Beatles music like a casual fan that I suggest you were back
> then. No matter.
"Casual"? Interesting characterization. At least you qualify your
comment with "for some of us", although later on you apparently
contradict that with your "casual" comment, as if one has to be into the
"drama" to qualify as a "true fan". It's like Fatts' comment that one
has to hate Yoko to be a "true fan". Nonsense, in both instances.
> Now that we're one step outside the actual point I was making,
> you've deflected things.
Oh, please, like I was supposed to get "the actual point" buried in
indecipherable comments like "On the deep level Beatles stuff, you're
really old school Country. Maybe even using the four string uke chords."
>>
>>>> I did like the guitar player's Jazzmaster, however. And anyone
>>>> else notice that the bass guy was playing a "Beatle bass"?
>>
>>> The "guitar player"?!? That's Sean Ono Taro Lennon.
>>
>> He *is* the guitar player, isn't he?
>
> Deflecting again. Typing "the guitar player" instead of "Sean"
> seemed like an obvious labor of ignorance. I see you
> commented about "Yoko" instead of "the vocalist", but go
> ahead, play games.
Good grief, man. I had read several of the comments in the thread
mentioning Sean. From my perspective, it didn't matter that it was Sean
in the context of my post. I was commenting on the instrument.
>>> Man, RichL, you may be a lover but you ain't no dancer...
>>
>>> Face it. On the deep level Beatles stuff, you're really old school
>>> Country. Maybe even using the four string uke chords.
>>
>> Huh?? The "deep level Beatles stuff"? If you mean the gossip, yeah,
>> I'm really out of it. Sue me.
>
> No need to be a smartass (again). Just observing your confusedness.
You say "you may be a lover but you ain't no dancer" and *I'm* the
smartass?
>> I like the music, period. What's your beef?
>
> Sean was the guitar player. Just setting you stright on the that.
> Again.
Wow. My post had two functions: (1) to comment on Yoko's vocals and (2)
a casual remark about two of the instruments that I saw in the clip.
And you're flogging me because I didn't pay proper homage?
BlackMonk
>> Is their saying that they were influenced by Yoko compelling enough?
>
> Actually, no... If they had said that "back in the day" maybe so, but the
> myth has been around for so long now, I imagine (if it is indeed not true)
> they either believe it themselves, or feel it is convenient to say so.
> This sort of thing isn't so unusual in the incestuous world of rock and
> roll PR/legend-making.
It's possible, though I'd say that given the preponderance of evidence that
they've been influenced by Yoko (There is a vocal similarity, they've
covered "Don't Worry," they've performed with her, they've said both that
Yoko influenced them and that they listened to her records before they were
famous, the latter being a statement of fact, which is less likely-though
not impossible-to be a false memory than something like her influence.),
it's more reasonable to assume they had been influenced by her than that
they hadn't.
>>
>> It started with a similar guitar riff, though it's not so unique that
>> Sean couldn't have come up with it independently.
>
>>
>> Besides, it's not as though rock isn't filled with similar instances of
>> "borrowed" riffs.
>
> You're right. I didn't say it was a vicious little theft, and/or that
> someone should be staked to a speeding rhino and run over the white cliffs
> of Dover for it. But it did sound a bit like "Rock Lobster"...Which is
> only "bad" because "rock Lobster" is clearly the superior song,
It's the more conventional song. By pop and rock standards, it's the
superior song, but that's not what is trying to be. If I were in the mood to
listen to one, listening to the other wouldn't work as a substitute. As it
is, it's not likely that I'll have a strong desire to listen to either any
time soon. Not that I dislike either, I just don't have any strong feelings
for them.
> and thus there is a suffering by comparison. and it still is irrelevant
> (to the question of whether or not it WAS a take on "Rock Lobster" or not)
> that the B-52s were initially influenced by Yoko. You can still "cop one"
> from your acolytes.
Of course.
F Parella
> Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > She screeched, howled and had orgasms. The usual Yoko stuff.
>
> those who missed the show be advised that Ono's performance did include
> abundant lyrics.
Yoko's new song has lyrics? Penned by Ono herself?!? In that case, I
simply can't miss it. Why, Yoko's talents as a wordsmith (e.g.,
"Kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss me love") rival her abilities as a vocalist.
F Parella
> poisoned rose wrote:
LOL! The silly notion that the B-52s were "doing Yoko" in "Rock
Lobster" is an example of wishful thinking on Lennon's part.
Dale Houstman
Well, as I said, I simply don't know the truth. If they say they were
now, I suppose it has to carry some evidentiary weight, but it still
isn't necessarily all that compelling: memories are fickle things, and
maybe they're just being nice. But whatever the truth, the fact is a lot
of good and great musicians are and were influenced by mediocre talent.
Maybe they did hear some "strangeness" in her singing which gave them an
idea as how to proceed vocally, but I still find her material to be
lacking in most things I enjoy as "music" - it's neither as conceptually
unique and innovative and challenging as - say - John Cage, nor is it as
purely energetic and enjoyable as most rock and pop. to me she is almost
always trying to impress us with her "wisdom" (which is sheer five and
dime philosophizing) and almost daring us to accept her voice as being
original and/or interesting. Yma Sumac came before her...
dmh
F Parella
> FParellawrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
You make a lot of good points. Yma Sumac did not merely come before
Ono; Sumac was a genuine talent - one specifically cited by the B-52s
in their early interviews as a vocal influence. This was before Ono
and her tarot card reader had cooked up Yoko's absurd "I was doing a
lot of the punk and new wave stuff a long time ago" fable.
who?
John is the one who said that to Yoko.
Jeff
F Parella
> FParella<f_pare...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > LOL!
>
> Gosh, seems like we had gone quite a few days without some blowhard
> loser attempting the Derisive LOL. Oh well.
>
> I wonder how many thousand angry, hateful posts FParellawill have to
> write before he arouses the concern of Topaz?
I'm not angry or hateful; I just refuse to grovel before Ono's wealth
and fame. I'm not going to indulge her absurd pretenses and/or
pretend to be enamored by hideous screeching.
BTW, it's been a while since I've seen a variation on the dumb "Yoko's
critics are so hateful" routine. Ono herself has written that "Hate
is just an awkward way of love." Do you agree with her, PR?
Dale Houstman
I don't quite enjoy getting into these "I love Yoko/I hate Yoko"
discussions, most of which don't take place in the highest sphere of
cognition. I have my opinions on her, and her art, and her music, but -
as I said - I try (always) to leave just enough "headroom" (critically)
so as to account for the possibility I'm missing something, or that
something "just ain't for me". She was doing something before anybody
else was doing it, and a lot of it is still not being done by anyone
else. There could be different reasons for that, of course.
dmh
Dale Houstman
Well, that's what John said. But who really knows what the hell was
going on in that confused noggin? He seemed to have been a wildly
suggestible person, although he protested the notion. So I don't know.
dmh
Dale Houstman
>
> BTW, it's been a while since I've seen a variation on the dumb "Yoko's
> critics are so hateful" routine. Ono herself has written that "Hate
> is just an awkward way of love." Do you agree with her, PR?
I'd say "Hate is just a VERY awkward way of love" at least. As it is,
the statement is both silly and utterly useless. Unless you're the sort
who would be comforted by thoughts such as "Well, they're beating the
hell out of me, and I think they might kill me, but at least I know they
love me, if clumsily."
dmh
Fattuchus
:-)
Fattuchus
"Hate is an awkward form of love"?? That's a silly concept.
Let's try to apply it in real life . . . Under that concept, I guess
Hitler loved Jews and "gypsies." Or perhaps Charles Manson loved the
people he helped murder.
Nah. Doesn't work. Not at all.
AllaBest
> On Nov 9, 9:03 am, F Parella <f_pare...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Ono herself has written that "Hate
> > is just an awkward way of love." Do you agree with her, PR?
>
> "Hate is an awkward form of love"?? That's a silly concept.
If it's not true, why is PR now down on one knee in front of me with a
ring in his hand?
Dale Houstman
Trying to replace the one in your nose?
Just a thought...
dmh
AllaBest
Boy, if that's not the truth!
Thanks, Dale!
AllaBest
> AllaBest <bip_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > > >>> Ono herself has written that "Hate
> > > >>> is just an awkward way of love." Do you agree with her, PR?
> > > >> "Hate is an awkward form of love"?? That's a silly concept.
>
> > > > If it's not true, why is PR now down on one knee in front of me with a
> > > > ring in his hand?
>
> > > Trying to replace the one in your nose?
>
> > > Just a thought...
>
> > > dmh
>
> > Boy, if that's not the truth!
>
> > Thanks, Dale!
>
> for his support.
>
> You can pretty much reshape reality into any shape you like, can't you?
No, I thanked him for reminding me that responding to you're constant
nastiness allows you to "yank my chain" and "lead me around by a ring
in my nose" and that reacting your terrible nature gives you a power
over me that you don't deserve.
I believe Yoko was right. Your sad insults to me, and others,
protects you from the overwhelming Love that you really feel for us,
and you don't know how to react and respond with grace.
Know that we Love you, PR, and hope that you may one day respond to
the world in kind.
The Walrus was Danny
No it's not.
Love is when you really like somebody.
Hate is when you really don't like somebody.
Philisophical psycho babblebollocks.
Danny
Dale Houstman
You're welcome - but I am not sure for what precisely...
dmh
Dale Houstman
> AllaBest <bip...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>>>>> Ono herself has written that "Hate
>>>>>> is just an awkward way of love." Do you agree with her, PR?
>>>>> "Hate is an awkward form of love"?? That's a silly concept.
>>>> If it's not true, why is PR now down on one knee in front of me with a
>>>> ring in his hand?
>>> Trying to replace the one in your nose?
>>>
>>> Just a thought...
>>>
>>> dmh
>> Boy, if that's not the truth!
>>
>> Thanks, Dale!
>
> for his support.
>
> You can pretty much reshape reality into any shape you like, can't you?
As you can see, I seriously did not know why he was thanking me! I know
jokes can go horribly wrong at the best of times (and especially on the
internet), but I would think the image of yourself with a ring in your
nose would be difficult to construe as a praiseworthy condition. to be
honest, I didn't mean it in a particularly mean-spirited fashion either
(I hadn't been keeping up on the latest in newsgroup brouhahas), only as
a slightly malicious pleasantry. Oh well...
dmh
Dale Houstman
I suspect you didn't get the snark in my comment...I've got to stop
diluting my snark with fuhshizzle, just to save a little money toward
the development of my time machine...
dmh
BlackMonk
It's something of a cliche, actually. "Thin line between love and hate," and
all that.
As with most cliches, there is an element of truth in it, but it's hardly a
universal truth that applies in all cases. I suspect that, in context, it
was being used to make a point, though I haven't seen the context, so I have
no idea what that point is.
I'm not sure why anyone would go to Yoko Ono for a life philosophy, nor why
anyone would expect her to be any more profound than any other rock musician
who expounds on philosophy. Certainly, "there should be more love in the
world," is more benign than, say, "vaccines are bad and should be avoided."
In fact, "there should be more love in the world," isn't a bad philosophy,
albeit somewhat simplistic.
The Walrus was Danny
> Reality misses you. Please come back.
Oh for Christ's sake Guru, leave the bloke alone.
Danny
RichL
> I'm not angry or hateful; I just refuse to grovel before Ono's wealth
> and fame. I'm not going to indulge her absurd pretenses and/or
> pretend to be enamored by hideous screeching.
Then why spend so much time on this newsgroup jumping up and down and
stomping your feet about her?
Just ignore her. Works for me. No one's forcing you to "grovel" or
"indulge" a damned thing.
Yoko owns you.
AllaBest
> me, I really don't feel compelled to join the AllaBest pity party.
It's George Harrison's party!
You really should come in and have some fun!
"Isn't it a pity
Now, isn't it a shame
How we break each other's hearts
And cause each other pain
How we take each other's love
Without thinking anymore
Forgetting to give back
Isn't it a pity."
Quiet everybody! Someone knocking at the door!
It could be PR!
"Open the door!
And let him in!"
AllaBest
But you don't ignore her. She dominates your life.
> Yoko owns you.
No, Rich. Yoko owns you, and your obsession is costing you more than
you know.
AllaBest
> The Walrus was Danny <dannyisthewal...@tesco.net> wrote:
>
rwalker
wrote:
I'm with you Rich. Grovel? Who's groveling before who? I've never
groveled before an entertainer. I just enjoy what I like, and ignore
the rest. If the worst thing in a person's life is to worry about
Yoko Ono or any celebrity, that person has had an awfully easy and
simple life and needs to find some fulfillment somewhere.
Fattuchus
Sorry to disagree, but I don't love PR.
Fattuchus
wrote:
Yes, psycho babbling brook.
abe slaney
> You make a lot of good points. Yma Sumac did not merely come before
> Ono; Sumac was a genuine talent - one specifically cited by the B-52s
> in their early interviews as a vocal influence. This was before Ono
> and her tarot card reader had cooked up Yoko's absurd "I was doing a
> lot of the punk and new wave stuff a long time ago" fable.
Who are you and what's your personal beef with Yoko Ono?
No simply casual Beatle fan could possibly maintain such a single-
minded usenet vendetta for this long.
LookingGlass
>
> That was certifiably awful. Sorry, I know I usually play the Yoko
> defender here, but that doesn't mean I accept her music blindly. I
> forced myself to listen to it all, hoping I would "get" some redeeming
> feature. I didn't.
Actually...not.
I was *impressed* by the fact that I was not offended. The band
sounded good. Her vocals were delivered well within the range of
*tame*. Really not much different than LZ Robert Plant. And not bad
for an old woman.
...just different. Not my style though.
Dale Houstman
As for going to Yoko for wisdom - good as most I think. All the wisdom
in the world adds up to a lot of wishful thinking. Mainly was
distinguishes one "guru" from another is the literary/poetic quality of
their expressions: in that regard Yoko is - well - less-than-stellar.
George Harrison was full of the same "be like a baby in a tornado"
wah-wah, and there is a whole tribe of such folks; the Dahli Lama
burbles this sort of thin whiz also, as do most of the "illuminated
ones" floating around out there, a few inches off the tarmac, on their
way to the next meeting. Nietzsche and Blake write pithier epigrams. The
entire world is in love with its least exciting ideas, and - at
Christmas - TV news loves to seek out "from the mouths of babies"
statements like "we shouldn't shoot other people" as proof we've lost so
much by merely continuing to exist beyond the age of nine. So I guess
"Imagine your head is a marzipan castle" is as good as anything, if
you're looking for yourself, and forgot to check what's in your shoes.
dmh
Dale Houstman
I'd basically agree - the band sounded good. But although I certainly
wasn't "offended" (or even surprised) by Yoko's vocals, I think she
wasn't quite up to the level of control and actual restraint in Plant's
voice, who can get an awful lot of passion (and poetry) into a lyric
without straining a throat muscle. Yoko emotes and squiggles a lot more
for a lot less I think. Entertaining though - and not bad for an old woman.
dmh
mcnews
> Here's a link to her performance. This is an official link, so
> there's no copyright infringement:
>
> http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/video/episodes/?vid=1173209#v...
>
> I don't think the extreme criticism is justified. I'm not a Yoko fan,
> but I bet that if the critics didn't KNOW who Yoko Ono was their
> perception would be very different.
>
> It gets pretty difficult to classify music, and I'm certainly no
> authority, but I don't see this as being much different from what I
> would call New Wave, except it is more guitar based than synth based.
it was alright
didn't sound a damn thing like rock lobster
just a loud song with whoopin an hollerin
can't imagine yoko waiting for *D* train or *the* train tho
maybe sean wrote the "lyrics"
The Arranger
> AllaBest <bip_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > > "indulge" a damned thing.
>
> > But you don't ignore her. She dominates your life.
>
> > > Yoko owns you.
>
> > No, Rich. Yoko owns you, and your obsession is costing you more than
> > you know.
>
I suppose Yoko owns me, too. The question comes, can I still claim
myself as a deduction?
The Arranger
Fattuchus
"Whoopin' and hollerin'". Haaahaaa. I like that.
F Parella
> On Nov 9, 9:03�am, F Parella <f_pare...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 7, 2:45 pm, poisoned rose <prose1...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > FParella<f_pare...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > LOL!
>
> > > Gosh, seems like we had gone quite a few days without some blowhard
> > > loser attempting the Derisive LOL. Oh well.
>
> > > I wonder how many thousand angry, hateful posts FParellawill have to
> > > write before he arouses the concern of Topaz?
>
> > I'm not angry or hateful; I just refuse to grovel before Ono's wealth
> > and fame. �I'm not going to indulge her absurd pretenses and/or
> > pretend to be enamored by hideous screeching.
>
> > critics are so hateful" routine. �Ono herself has written that "Hate
> > is just an awkward way of love." �Do you agree with her, PR?
>
> "Hate is an awkward form of love"?? �That's a silly concept.
>
> Hitler loved Jews and "gypsies." �Or perhaps Charles Manson loved the
> people he helped murder.
>
> Nah. �Doesn't work. Not at all.- Hide quoted text -
Right. Yoko's notion that "Hate is an awkward way of love" is yet
another example of her wishful thinking, a la "Everyone is a genius,"
"Everyone is an artist," "Dream you dream together is reality," "War
is over if you want it," "Magic is logical," "Psychics are scientists"
and so on. It's the same fallacy - wishful thinking - in each case.
Fattuchus
Some of those sound as if they belong inside a Hallmark card. :-)
You know, we should start our own thread of made up Yoko-isms. It
would be fun.
Dale Houstman
"Even if you run your mouth, your head will still stay fat."
The Arranger
We hardly have to look outside of RMB in search of vapid platitudes...
The Arranger
LookingGlass
>
> We hardly have to look outside of RMB in search of vapid platitudes...
>
> The Arranger
I thought they were extinct? Not hardly, huh?
The Arranger
The duck-billed platitude is alive and well.
The Arranger
The Walrus was Danny
> Who are you and what's your personal beef with Yoko Ono?
She broke up the Beatles.
> No simply casual Beatle fan could possibly maintain such a single-
> minded usenet vendetta for this long.
In a Beatles NG? I think we could maintain it well...forever...
Danny
LookingGlass
>
> I'd basically agree - the band sounded good. But although I certainly
> wasn't "offended" (or even surprised) by Yoko's vocals, I think she
> wasn't quite up to the level of control and actual restraint in Plant's
> voice, who can get an awful lot of passion (and poetry) into a lyric
> without straining a throat muscle. Yoko emotes and squiggles a lot more
> for a lot less I think. Entertaining though - and not bad for an old woman.
>
> dmh
Let me *gage* the Offense-ometer... I am offended by her performance
at the Rolling Stone Circus...totally out of place. Painful.
She has turned into a (minor) shaman, with an eastern soul...different
inflections. Howling from the soul as is Plant, but he is passing on
western emotions to a familiar audience.
RichL
Robert, have you ever actually stopped to read anything I've said about
Yoko other than my speaking up when others drag her through the mud?
What you write makes no sense whatsoever.
RichL
Amen!
who?
Rich, this is wacko community, I tell ya.
Jeff
abe slaney
wrote:
> > Who are you and what's your personal beef with Yoko Ono?
>
> She broke up the Beatles.
I said "personal" beef, Danny. Lots of people blame her (fairly or
unfairly) for the breakup of the Beatles. One gets the sense there's
something more going on behind the curtains with FParella.
> > No simply casual Beatle fan could possibly maintain such a single-
> > minded usenet vendetta for this long.
>
> In a Beatles NG? I think we could maintain it well...forever...
>
> Danny
And you do, but you also post about Beatles and Best and butterflies
and beer and busking. FParella posts (almost) exclusively on the
subject of Yoko Ono. Isn't that a bit...weird?
BLACKPOOLJIMMY
....and I quote, "whoosh".
Dale Houstman
I'd have to surmise that you are being a tad too generous to Yoko in
this specific analysis, and even a tad bit dismissive of my own
comprehension, which is relatively worldly, if I might say so. I don't
see anything particularly Eastern or terrifically mystical in Yoko's
performance, and she's been performing in the West (and for Westerners)
for quite some time now. In fact, she was never really that much a
traditional Japanese artist, and most of her artistic projects are
firmly in a recognizably Western mode, at least as much as in any
distinctly "Asian" pattern. So I don't see that notion as a way to
address this or that person's less-than-enthused response to her work.
But - to be honest - it was you who brought up Plant as a comparison in
the first place, and - to my ears - he's at least as "shamanistic" as
Yoko, and displays an ability to generate a lot of passion with a
minimum of vocal histrionics, and in the midst of a sometimes ambiguous
lyrical sleet. Frankly, I don't think either a comparison between Yoko
and Plant, or a "sheltering" of Yoko behind a miasma of "inscrutable
Orientalism" is going to be a successful path toward comprehension or -
certainly - any lasting delight.
dmh
mcnewsxp
#2 she rocked
WTF else ya want
do better
AllaBest
I'm just saying your involving yourself in this "community" is not a
good idea. I've made the mistake of staying too long and I hate to
see such a great guy wasting so much of his time and energy in such a
terrible venture.
who?
I think the same thing every day, Robert...but it's not just about
Rich.
It's about many posters here..who waste their valuable time......
arguing about who's right or wrong. Not only that, but calling
somebody on their behavior....when we can't change other people.
We can only change ourselves. So much time wasted, and this
includes you too, Robert. I'll also include PR. He's way too
intelligent to waste his time here, (whether you like him or not )
but it's his life. I just don't get it though...never have.
AllaBest
This is so very true, Jeff!
My best wishes!
Have a great day!
Enjoy yourself.
Bernie Woodham
>
>
> I think the same thing every day, Robert...but it's not just about
> Rich.
> It's about many posters here..who waste their valuable time......
> arguing about who's right or wrong. Not only that, but calling
> somebody on their behavior....when we can't change other people.
> We can only change ourselves. So much time wasted, and this
> includes you too, Robert. I'll also include PR. He's way too
> intelligent to waste his time here, (whether you like him or not )
> but it's his life. I just don't get it though...never have.
But aren't you also trying to change other people by just tryint to
get them to stop?
LookingGlass
You took my view a bit too seriously. I was simply pointing out that
there was nothing unusual in Yoko's performance besides her *style*.
Why folks get all excited by it is peculiar. It was a quick glance at
a passing shadow.
Fattuchus
IMO her performance is quite unusual. To start with, she sucks. Yet
Yoko is able to get all this media attention. Who else of such little
talent would get to do a live performance on television?
Why? Because she is "The Widow."
> Why folks get all excited by it is peculiar. It was a quick glance at
> a passing shadow.
>
> www.Shemakhan.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
LookingGlass
>
> IMO her performance is quite unusual. To start with, she sucks. Yet
> Yoko is able to get all this media attention. Who else of such little
> talent would get to do a live performance on television?
>
> Why? Because she is "The Widow."
The *green-eyed* monster speaks.
Dale Houstman
I understand I might have taken something too seriously, but I don't
wuite understand the distinction between "her performance" and her
"style" that you appear to be making here: if there WAS something
"unusual" about her "style," wouldn't that - of necessity - say
something about her performance?
> Why folks get all excited by it is peculiar. It was a quick glance at
> a passing shadow.
>
Sure. I don't know why people get all worked up over her either: rock
and roll has its share of oddities and eccentrics of course. Really, I
am almost never excited by one of her performances: I think they are
fairly mundane really. I've seen better "screechers" in any number of
local punk bands, and certainly better physical performers in every
realm of musical performance, and I couldn't count the number of better
lyricists. If what you are saying is that she is not much to get worked
up over, I can certainly agree.
dmh
LookingGlass
I do not underestimate your "worldliness",,,Your Worldliness! I was
only pointing out her perspective...something I don't think she has
lost. Yoko has lived in the West for some time, but I believe her
*eastern-ness* has stayed with her. I can't help but think of the Noh
mask, Hannya, when I think of Yoko.
http://www.masksoftheworld.com/Orient/Japan%20Hannya%20Mask.htm
LookingGlass
>
> I understand I might have taken something too seriously, but I don't
> wuite understand the distinction between "her performance" and her
> "style" that you appear to be making here: if there WAS something
> "unusual" about her "style," wouldn't that - of necessity - say
> something about her performance?
>
> > Why folks get all excited by it is peculiar. It was a quick glance at
> > a passing shadow.
>
> Sure. I don't know why people get all worked up over her either: rock
> and roll has its share of oddities and eccentrics of course. Really, I
> am almost never excited by one of her performances: I think they are
> fairly mundane really. I've seen better "screechers" in any number of
> local punk bands, and certainly better physical performers in every
> realm of musical performance, and I couldn't count the number of better
> lyricists. If what you are saying is that she is not much to get worked
> up over, I can certainly agree.
>
> dmh
My limited experience of Japanese culture has shown me a certain
aloofness and detachment from overly sentimentalism when it comes to
the folks of Japan. Not that they are not emotional, but that they do
not display it as Western folks do. That has been my experience. The
emotion that Plant wrings out of his performances is up front...Yoko
is *distant*. But there is not much depth to Yoko's performance. My
comparison was not about quality, but about the use of growls, yelps,
whoops, and other vocal displays. What Yoko does is not different from
Plant. She uses her voice in the same manner. Just different.
LookingGlass
>
> The problem is that the more indignant Yoko-haters do not even know such
> punk screechers exist, hence Yoko's music is a shockingly new to them.
> It's a "thrown in the deep end" sort of experience.
The problem is...
To discover for what purpose does the music exist. That takes work.
Dale Houstman
working in Japan said that most of the people he met there didn't
particularly "get" her either, and many didn't perceive of her as
particularly Asian in temperament or actions. She seemed "out of place"
and lacking "eastnosity". I certainly instantly recognized her (I think
rather tepid) go at Western conceptualism, and nothing has convinced me
since of any great warehouse of the "mystical Orient" in her demeanor.
She certainly diverges pretty dramatically (and to her credit) from the
traditionally inferior/submissive role of the female in Japanese culture.
But what do I know?
dmh
Dale Houstman
> Dale Houstman <dm...@skypoint.com> wrote:
>
>> Sure. I don't know why people get all worked up over her either: rock
>> and roll has its share of oddities and eccentrics of course. Really, I
>> am almost never excited by one of her performances: I think they are
>> fairly mundane really. I've seen better "screechers" in any number of
>> local punk bands
>
> punk screechers exist, hence Yoko's music is a shockingly new to them.
> It's a "thrown in the deep end" sort of experience.
You do have something there most likely. And it isn't only the most
modern punkers: there are some yawpers and wailers in the rockabilly
troupe that give her a run for her money. Some are utterly crazy, and
with no more or less innate vocal ability than Yoko. And this is only
within the realm of rock music: outside Western music, vocal eruptions
beyond mere "pretty singing" are rampant. And let's not mention Wild Man
Fischer, or even (a bit more controlled and certainly more interesting)
Captain Beefheart. It goes on and on...
dmh
Dale Houstman
To torture innocents and keep the bedbugs off the pound cage...
dmh
Dale Houstman
Woof woof...
dmh
LookingGlass
>
> I don't know. A friend of mine who spent over a decade living and
> working in Japan said that most of the people he met there didn't
> particularly "get" her either, and many didn't perceive of her as
> particularly Asian in temperament or actions. She seemed "out of place"
> and lacking "eastnosity". I certainly instantly recognized her (I think
> rather tepid) go at Western conceptualism, and nothing has convinced me
> since of any great warehouse of the "mystical Orient" in her demeanor.
> She certainly diverges pretty dramatically (and to her credit) from the
> traditionally inferior/submissive role of the female in Japanese culture.
>
> But what do I know?
Interesting. I know very little about her biography. I believe she was
raised in a upper middle-class banking family with connections.
Strict. So I assume that the family brought her up with certain
*standards* imprinted on her. I would be interested in reading a
serious Yoko biography.
But as you stated, what do I know. Yoko exists as an artist...though
she does not impress me. Her *statements* are zen-like. Koans to
ponder. Some are effective.
LookingGlass
Sorry...the photograph is already taken, and the film has been
developed. A picture is *forever*.
Dale Houstman
...and a dog is a diamond's best girl.
dmh
Fattuchus
From what I've read, Yoko's not popular in Japan either.
The bottom line is she has a small following, but most people don't
like her. And much of the little fame she has is from being Mrs.
Lennon.
I certainly instantly recognized her (I think
> rather tepid) go at Western conceptualism, and nothing has convinced me
> since of any great warehouse of the "mystical Orient" in her demeanor.
> She certainly diverges pretty dramatically (and to her credit) from the
> traditionally inferior/submissive role of the female in Japanese culture.
>
> But what do I know?
>
> dmh- Hide quoted text -
Dale Houstman
>> working in Japan said that most of the people he met there didn't
>> particularly "get" her either, and many didn't perceive of her as
>> particularly Asian in temperament or actions.
>
> music has a couple of odd trends which suit Yoko well.... One, there are
> plenty of flawed female singers whose waifish off-pitchness gets
> perceived as charmingly cute, rather than inept. I myself plenty like
> Cibo Matto, Deerhoof and Shonen Knife. And on the other hand, there are
> plenty of underground Japanese noise bands. Ruins, the Boredoms, Melt
> Banana, Merzbow...that sort of attack. Bands which would have the
> Yokotards howling for Yoko albums as a relief.
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanoise)
I saw Guitarwolf at a local venue (one that is fairly famous, but
"blessed" with an ear-splitting and dirty resonance that made their
"rockabilly on meth" affair a real trial of endurance. They opened for
the Cramps, so my ears rang for days. Thoroughly enjoyable, but not for
the faint of heart. In fact, I think my heart went deaf for a day or two.
My take (actually my friend's take) on Yoko's "Easterness" isn't really
about her fitting into the weird and wonderful J-Pop spectrum, but in
response to the idea that she somehow exemplifies a somewhat
"inscrutable" Orientlism, which I don't really see. Certainly, one CAN -
if pressed - associate her poetry with Zen koans, haiku, or whatever
other "pearl-small" Asian literary form one wants, but truth is such
things have been permeating into Western art culture for quite some time
now: any hipster from the fifties would have no problem both recognizing
the styles and/or replicating them. Coming to it later thus isn't
particularly useful as a measure of her "Buddhistic otherness" or
however one might wish to designate it. And epigrams are epigrams, with
a very very long history. Maybe she's the reincarnation (in human form)
of the "Greek Anthology"?
Besides concurring on Cibo Matto and the others (plus a neat traidtion
in Japanese Psych), I rather like (without being able to name any
specific examples at the moment) some of those rather charming - and yes
"childlike" - Japanese girl singers. This is mostly an extra-musical
judgement: cute is its own reward.
The meaning being that - no matter what one's eventual opinion on Yoko's
art and music (and mine is ho-hum) - it is best viewed within a wider
context of styles, which - at the least - removes its superficial
"offensive" characteristic and allows a listener to turn thumbs up or
down based on a sharper set of points.
dmh
RichL
Indeed she does.
Nothing else explains the venom.
RichL
> The bottom line is she has a small following, but most people don't
> like her. And much of the little fame she has is from being Mrs.
> Lennon.
Hush. The grownups are talking.