OT: Hasan's Power Point Presentation
Fattuchus
in his Power Point Presentation. Did anyone listen?
RichL
Mack A. Damia
wrote:
>Give it a rest. Please.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=008BPUdQ1XA&feature=related
--
mad
AllaBest
And now it's time for "Dot The Macadamia Nut"...
Mack A. Damia
Heck, I'd use that for my theme, but she's a female!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVhAOgKs4sQ
See what I mean?
--
mad
RichL
Thanks! Just returned from dinner with my daughter at a Mexican
restaurant. Maybe this'll help move things along.
Fattuchus
Thirteen innocent people were murdered by this animal. Dozens more
were injured. And it seems no one here wants to take this seriously.
Unbelievable.
Bernie Woodham
I'M SHOCKED! JUST GOD DAMN SHOCKED! KILL THAT FUCKER! KILL THEM ALL!
BLOW THOSE FUCKERS UP! MURDER THEM! ASSHOLES!
There. Is that better?
Fattuchus
Yes. Much better. Thanks, Bernie. I knew I could count on
you. <g>
RichL
This.
Is.
A.
Beatles.
Newsgroup.
Your post once again opens up a divisive subject that's been covered
already *ad nauseam*.
Now you're trolling.
AllaBest
> Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Thirteen innocent people were murdered by this animal. Dozens more
> > were injured. And it seems no one here wants to take this seriously.
>
> > Unbelievable.
>
> This.
> Is.
> A.
> Beatles.
> Newsgroup.
"Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout
Bagism, Shagism, Dragism, Madism, Ragism, Tagism
THIS ISM, THAT ISM, ISM ISM ISM
All we are saying is give peace a chance.
All we are saying is give peace a chants."
It seems it is all open to discussion.
Fattuchus
I'll give it a rest because you requested it, but honestly, this
thread is NOT trolling and I can't believe anyone who supports the US
and/or its troops would find this divisive.
Jeff
Morning, Fatt. You're up early.
Jeff
Fattuchus
>
> - Show quoted text -
Good morning to you.
I saw on the news yesterday that there was significant snow in the
middle part of the US already. I hope that did not effect you. Here
we are having lovely weather for November. I went for a walk
yesterday past pretty garden, and believe it or not, there were two
blooming rose bushes.
Jeff
I think it just barely hit us.
Here
> we are having lovely weather for November. I went for a walk
> yesterday past pretty garden, and believe it or not, there were two
> blooming rose bushes.
I hope the rest of your day is nice.
Jeff
Revenge of Sith
> I'll give it a rest because you requested it
Don't listen to that dickhead. He can go fuck himself.
topaz
Speaking of "divisive" when an individual who believes in external
violent jihad obeys the verse of the Sword in the Koran and
decapitates his enemy (dividing the body from the head) that is
divisive.
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
The other issue not mentioned much in the news is that this officer
was a doctor as well. What ever happened to the Hippocratic Oath
"First do no harm"? Guess he did not take it too seriously.
Fattuchus
>
> - Show quoted text -
In his case he took a hypocritic oath.
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
So true, so true. So much inititial debate on what motivated him to
kill all those poor people. It is simple....he was wresting with his
own definition of how to be true to his faith, and his solution was
external or "the lesser" jihad. That was more important to him than
his military oath, his medical oath, or even his life on this earth.
Fattuchus
I told RichL that I would "give it a rest" so I'm going to try to do
that for the next couple of days, at least.
RichL
Shut up and dish out more stars, Tom.
Revenge of Sith
> Shut up and dish out more stars, Tom.
What makes you think that I dish out stars and my name is even Tom?
Bernie Woodham
Oh, I doubt he thinks you're "even Tom", Tom.
RichL
I'd call him "odd Tom".
Bernie Woodham
topaz
> Why he murdered 13 innocent Americans at Fort Hood. He spelled it out
> in his Power Point Presentation. Did anyone listen?
>
> http://rubinreports.blogspot.com/2009/11/why-i-murdered-13-american-s...
Another turn of events for the Ft Hood killer
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_fort_hood_shooting/print
Of course! The insanity defense!!Gee why didn't I think of
that. :) I know there are members of our public that would rather
believe he is insane than to believe he had faith in a religion that
in its most extreme form advocates murder of infidels and the
protection of fellow Muslims.
RichL
Well, you don't really *know* now, do you? Of course, you're most eager
to accept a conclusion that jibes with your prejudices.
Besides, the two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. Me, I'll wait
for the facts to come out at trial.
Fattuchus
Reminds me of the Andrea Yates case, also in Texas.
Disgusting.
Fattuchus
If and when the facts come out at trial, would you be ever be willing
to admit that Hasan is a jihadist? That his Muslim religious beliefs
motivated him to try to kill the infidels?
I don't think you ever will. . . . . It's not a matter of "evidence."
topaz
Do you believe that the term "jihadist" is a real term and if yes,
would Hasan or any of the 9/11 plotters fit the definition? Or do you
feel the term "jihadist" is something that conservatives just
invented, another myth of the GOP to offend moderates in this country?
topaz
What I find tragically ironic is that the accused is a psychiatrist so
if anyone can pretend, lie or fake being insane, he can. Did you
actually see his power point presentation in the Washington Post? It
is a very rational presentation to me.
topaz
> Why he murdered 13 innocent Americans at Fort Hood. He spelled it out
> in his Power Point Presentation. Did anyone listen?
>
> http://rubinreports.blogspot.com/2009/11/why-i-murdered-13-american-s...
Naaaaah, so many people in this country are in a state of denial. They
would rather believe than outer space aliens have invaded America than
accept that some Muslims truly believe in violent jihad, and value
their faith above their country and their fellow nonMuslim Americans.
Bernie Woodham
>
>
> Reminds me of the Andrea Yates case, also in Texas.
>
> Disgusting.
I would like to hear you elaborate on the parallels between the Yates'
case and Hasan's. Just how is it that one reminds you of the other?
Just that both disgust you? Just that both took place in Texas? That
both used the insanity defense?
Or was Yates a jihadist? Or was Hasan killing his children?
RichL
Think what you want. There's some indication of it already. He might
have wanted to impress the "big boys". But I'll wait for the trial
before I come to firm conclusions. You might try doing the same.
RichL
I think it's vague in a way. "Jihad" literally means struggle. You
have a tendency to use loaded terms. "Jihad" meaning "struggle" is an
integral part of Islam, in the sense of struggling to improve one's self
or society.
You choose to co-opt that term to mean *violent* struggle.
If you're asking if I believe the 9/11 plotters were *terrorists*, the
answer is yes, obviously.
If you're asking if I believe that Hasan is a terrorist, I don't know.
Some people who go nuts have religious-based delusions. Since I don't
know yet if he's nuts, I don't know yet if he's a terrorist.
RichL
> On Nov 24, 5:03 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Reminds me of the Andrea Yates case, also in Texas.
>>
>> Disgusting.
>
> That both used the insanity defense?
Bingo. Fatts knows psychiatry better than psychiatrists who actually
interviewed the accused.
RichL
> On Nov 16, 8:54 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Why he murdered 13 innocent Americans at Fort Hood. He spelled it out
>> in his Power Point Presentation. Did anyone listen?
>>
>>
http://rubinreports.blogspot.com/2009/11/why-i-murdered-13-american-s...
>
> Naaaaah, so many people in this country are in a state of denial.
No, they're not. Do you know what a straw man argument is?
> They would rather believe than outer space aliens have invaded
> America than accept that some Muslims truly believe in violent
> jihad, and value their faith above their country and their fellow
> nonMuslim Americans.
Nonsense. Name *one*.
By the way, do you think there are any Christians or Jews who value
their faith above their country?
You and Fatts are beyond belief. Just because not everyone supports
*your* premature interpretation of events, the rest of us are "in a
state of denial" and "no one here wants to take this seriously".
Of course it's serious, you fool. People were murdered. *NO ONE* takes
that lightly.
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
I partially agree with you. If you view Hasan's own power point
presention and I could be wrong that it is there but I believe it
is,, he explains there are two kinds of jihad (and I have seen this
discussion of 2 kinds of jihad before elsewhere). The GREATER jihad
as it is called, is the struggle for self improvement and the struggle
against sinning. It is the struggle to obey God and stay away from
wicked temptations. It is a great concept as I understand it. Many
religions have this in their structure, and who could argue>? The
jihad I am concerned about is the LESSER jihad. That is the jihad
which demands killing nonbelievers and spreading the faith by the
sword if necessary. I am not intentionally using a loaded term.
Check it out yourself; there are two definitions for jihad within the
faith itself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad#Indian_subcontinent
I have copied a page from wikipedia, which to me tends to be a more
liberal source than some others; this admittedly is a very long page
however just look at their definitions of lesser and greater Jihad,
you will see.
topaz
We can all agree that Hasan is a psychiatrist and certainly if he
choses to pretend to be insane or answer all the questions to make
believe he is insane, he can. I believe that the truth is , he is a
jihadist who made a decision to follow the lesser jihad instead of
supporting his fellow soldiers.
topaz
Rich please calm down. YOu have grandson #2 on the way. Go buy some
baby clothes, get the digital camera ready, and have a fantastic
Thanksgiving. See my very lengthy post at the thread on the
terrorists being tried in NY City.
Bernie Woodham
>
>
> I have copied a page from wikipedia, which to me tends to be a more
> liberal source than some others; this admittedly is a very long page
> however just look at their definitions of lesser and greater Jihad,
> you will see.
You think Wikipedia is liberal? Explain that. Why do you think
Wikipedia is liberal?
Bernie Woodham
>
>
> We can all agree that Hasan is a psychiatrist and certainly if he
> choses to pretend to be insane or answer all the questions to make
> believe he is insane, he can. I believe that the truth is , he is a
> jihadist who made a decision to follow the lesser jihad instead of
> supporting his fellow soldiers.
Just because the man is a psychiatrist doesn't make him an actor.
Anymore than it makes him sane. Those people can have their faults and
problems too.
Jihadist or not, it's not very rational to take a gun and begin
shooting people without provocation. Nor is it a very sound strategy
in solving your problems.
Think about it: You are assuming that he knew he would not be killed.
You are saying he *planned* to randomly shoot people and he *planned*
to walk away alive.
If not, then your saying he began randomly shooting people without any
regard for the outcome. Does that sound *sane* to you?
Now, you might say something on the order of, "Oh, but he's a
jihadist. So that was his motive - his rationale."
But if he's really a jihadist representing the cause of Islam, why is
he allowing his lawyers to claim insanity?
Dale Houstman
> On Nov 24, 5:03 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Reminds me of the Andrea Yates case, also in Texas.
>>
>> Disgusting.
>
> I would like to hear you elaborate on the parallels between the Yates'
> case and Hasan's. Just how is it that one reminds you of the other?
>
The comparison: they both are people whose real troubles she would like
to ignore (much like everyone else around them before the tragedies
started) and whom she would like to see killed. They are people she can
feel superior to, and to practice her lack of decency and over-zealous
blood lust on. They help her to alleviate her own feelings of
self-loathing and her own failings with thoughts of righteous vengeance
and an "Old Testament" addiction to slaughter and retribution. They make
her feel "normal"...
dmh
RichL
I am perfectly calm; I'm just tired of you and Fatts pretending that you
are the source of wisdom on Islam, terrorism, and the like.
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
I am not pretending on anything. You choose to have a different
opinion on certain subjects and that;s OK. If you understand the
concept of the lesser jihad and the fact that a devout Muslim would
view fellow Muslims as having more valuable lives than nonMuslims,
what Hasan did makes perfect sense. He gave a Power Point presentation
one or two years earlier than for the most part outlined IMO what he
himself was struggling with philosophically. There are some people
however who would rather believe he was nuts. I am sure his lawyer is
hoping to get those indiv iduals on a jury (depending on the structure
of a military trial)
topaz
What troubles did Hasan have that justified killing 13 peoople and
wounding many others? Do you feel the Koran and the Hadiths are
devoid of "righteous vengeance"? Really?
topaz
Bernie you are just in the mood to criticize my comments. I am
expressing my opinion regarding pages I have read over the years on
Wikipedia. I do not view it as a perfect source, however I tried to
find a quick page defining lesser and greater jihad and wikipedia was
one of the first links that came up
topaz
> On Nov 24, 9:04 pm, topaz <topazgal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > We can all agree that Hasan is a psychiatrist and certainly if he
> > choses to pretend to be insane or answer all the questions to make
> > believe he is insane, he can. I believe that the truth is , he is a
> > jihadist who made a decision to follow the lesser jihad instead of
> > supporting his fellow soldiers.
>
> Just because the man is a psychiatrist doesn't make him an actor.
> Anymore than it makes him sane. Those people can have their faults and
> problems too.
I agree with you on that. My response though is this: do you think
what Dr Baruch Goldstein at the Hebron mosque massacre a few years ago
should be assumed to be due to mental illness as well? He was a doctor
too you know. Should we assume that Dr Goldstein just had his faults
and problems? Should the Palestinians just assume that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Goldstein
>
> Jihadist or not, it's not very rational to take a gun and begin
> shooting people without provocation. Nor is it a very sound strategy
> in solving your problems.
See the link above on Baruch Goldstein. Was he crazy and should we
assume that? Regarding Hasan, it is my understanding that he had
given away or sold his furniture, several Korans days before the
massacre and went into that military building which was not a firing
range but some kind of processing center, with way too many guns and
ammunitions . There was definitely an element of premeditation here,
and I do not think this was just a crime of passion.
>
> Think about it: You are assuming that he knew he would not be killed.
> You are saying he *planned* to randomly shoot people and he *planned*
> to walk away alive.
He did not necessarily plan to walk away alive. His own slide
presentation 2 years earlier stated that "we love death or value
death more than life". It is in the slide show. In addition if you
understand how important getting to Paradise is for the Muslim devout
man, then we should not assume that he was unwilling to die for his
cause. BTW I know you will not like this but I recall vaguely Bush
making similar comments over the years that jihadists or terrorists
prefer death over life or value death more than life. I know you do
not like Bush, but in that one point he is right.
>
> If not, then your saying he began randomly shooting people without any
> regard for the outcome. Does that sound *sane* to you?
I believe this was a premeditated crime and his desire in the outcome
was getting to Heaven; one of the surest tickets to Heaven for a
(lesser) jihadist is killing infidels or killing those who you feel
are a threat to other Muslims and your faith. His desire for
Paradise was greater than his desire to obey the Hippocratic oath, his
military oath, or even life itself. IMO this is a rational belief.
He had a rational belief in the context of his religion in the
strictest interpretation and he acted upon it.
>
> Now, you might say something on the order of, "Oh, but he's a
> jihadist. So that was his motive - his rationale."
>
> But if he's really a jihadist representing the cause of Islam, why is
> he allowing his lawyers to claim insanity?
Good point. Perhaps in his religious context he did what he had to do
in the name of his God, in his view. Or perhaps he now has decided he
wants to live and does not want to be executed. Or maybe he will be
declared innocent by reason of insanity and lives to kill another day
(in his view). (good luck with that if he is paralysed) Or maybe he
has decided he does not want to put his faith on trial. Remember the
goal of the defense attorney is to have him acquitted if possible and
a good attorney will use every trick or legal angle to do so.
Bernie Woodham
>
>
> I agree with you on that. My response though is this: do you think
> what Dr Baruch Goldstein at the Hebron mosque massacre a few years ago
> should be assumed to be due to mental illness as well? He was a doctor
> too you know. Should we assume that Dr Goldstein just had his faults
> and problems? Should the Palestinians just assume that?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Goldstein
>
Different time, different place, different environment. The man never
had a chance to explain himself - he certainly didn't make a plea of
insanity. Your just mixing more random speculation into the brew. The
problem is you are taking your favorite parts of this speculation and
acting as though they are certainties.
>
> > But if he's really a jihadist representing the cause of Islam, why is
> > he allowing his lawyers to claim insanity?
>
> Good point. Perhaps in his religious context he did what he had to do
> in the name of his God, in his view. Or perhaps he now has decided he
> wants to live and does not want to be executed. Or maybe he will be
> declared innocent by reason of insanity and lives to kill another day
> (in his view). (good luck with that if he is paralysed) Or maybe he
> has decided he does not want to put his faith on trial.
Now you are right where you should be: left with nothing but
questions. Goofy questions, but still nothing but questions. That's
why we need a trial.
> Remember the
> goal of the defense attorney is to have him acquitted if possible and
> a good attorney will use every trick or legal angle to do so.
I don't know that. But, I do know the attorney needs the co-operation
of his client for an insanity plea.
RichL
I searched high and low in Dale's post to find anything that even
remotely resembled saying those killings were justified.
Please don't put words in other people's mouths.
RichL
More nonsense.
If one took your words at face value, one would see every Muslim in
existence attempting to kill every nonbeliever.
Hasan's actions don't make "sense" to most Muslims, let alone to anyone
else.
Bernie Woodham
>
>
> I searched high and low in Dale's post to find anything that even
> remotely resembled saying those killings were justified.
>
> Please don't put words in other people's mouths.
Yeah, I read her post 2-3 times wondering what I was missing. Her
reply to him doesn't seem to address anything he said.
Is she just developing a power-presentation?
Crisstti
> On Nov 16, 8:54 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Why he murdered 13 innocent Americans at Fort Hood. He spelled it out
> > in his Power Point Presentation. Did anyone listen?
>
> >http://rubinreports.blogspot.com/2009/11/why-i-murdered-13-american-s...
>
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_fort_hood_shooting/print
>
> Of course! The insanity defense!!Gee why didn't I think of
> that. :) I know there are members of our public that would rather
> believe he is insane than to believe he had faith in a religion that
> in its most extreme form advocates murder of infidels and the
> protection of fellow Muslims.
Well, someone who believes that seems pretty insane to me.
Crisstti
That is actually a good question.
Crisstti
>
> - Show quoted text -
I have certainly read posts, at least by Fatts, not sure about you,
which clearly suggested she placed more value on Jewish lives than
that of Muslims.
And the insistence that 13 AMERICANS were killed also seems to point
to a similar attitude.
BLACKPOOLJIMMY
>
> > But if he's really a jihadist representing the cause of Islam, why is
> > he allowing his lawyers to claim insanity?
>
Intelligent deception.
"Nothing is real and nothing to get hung up about"..........
Fattuchus
If a client is truly insane, how can he give consent? Especially if
the client is allegedly so insane as to meet a criminal defense?
A client would need to be sane to give true consent. Insane people
can't really give consent any more than a three year old can give
consent to having sex with a degenerate Jew, right Bernie?
Oh, don't tell me . . . . . Dr. Hasan was totally insane only at the
time he killed 13 innocent people. Once he was done satisfying his
blood lust and being shot himself, he "suddenly" regained his marbles
and now, abra-kadabra, has regained his sanity and feels very sorry
for his bad actions. Is that your theory, Bernie?
Fattuchus
> On Nov 24, 5:03 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Reminds me of the Andrea Yates case, also in Texas.
>
> > Disgusting.
>
> I would like to hear you elaborate on the parallels between the Yates'
> case and Hasan's. Just how is it that one reminds you of the other?
They were both in Texas and they both involved brutal, cold hearted
murders. And both are claiming insanity.
I am disgusted because Yates got away with it. I hope Hasan doesn't.
Fattuchus
Crissti, you are an aspiring lawyer.
In your country, can an insane person give consent?
IMO if a person is truly insane, he can't "allow" his lawyers to do
anything. He's mentally incapable of consent.
Crisstti
>
> - Show quoted text -
I think Bernie is saying that if he, as you asy, isn't insane but is a
terrorist, then why would he give consent to his lawyers to claim he's
insane? (and he could give consent, 'cause he wouldn't be really
insane). He would want to claim his terrorist act. That is what
terrorists do. It kind of defeats the purpose otherwise.
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
Are you saying that those who believe in the content of his power
point presentation in your opinion would have to be insane to believe
it?
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
If my being patriotic bothers you that is not my problem. My point
is, Hasan in an officer in the US Army. Unfortunately, soldiers in
any Army generally are trained to kill "an enemy" during war time to
protect their country. These are basics I hope we can agree on. He
was not in a war zone protecting the country. He was on an American
army base, killing people of his own country wearing Army uniforms for
the most part. Now, ironically if he was in a war zone and killed
13 "enemy combatants" he probably would have been given a medal or
something. Because of his religion and his very orthodox belief in
his religion, his fellow soldiers became "the enemy" and he killed
them.
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
nothing in Fatts posts indicated what Dale claims she said. Dale seems
to want to emphasize the "troubles" of poooor Dr Hasan. Dale seems to
be emphasizing that we should pity Dr Hasan. I did not say he used the
word justify. My point is, what were Hasan's troubles that were so
horrible that Dale seems to be ignoring or minimizing the alleged
crime Hasan committed?
topaz
I agree we need a trial however if he has the capacity to "allow"
his lawyer to use the insanity defense then perhaps right now he is
not insane. I believe there is enough evidence, at least in the news
reports, that there was premeditation here. If he he insane now how
can he really make a fully informed decision with his lawyer? Look
his lawyer has been hired to just get him off, that is the real issue
here and any good lawyer will try all the legitimate tricks to do it.
Crisstti
>
> - Show quoted text -
NOt neccesarily. Not at least medically insane. But like I said,
someone being insane doesn't mean he/she shouldn't go to prison.
Crisstti
>
> - Show quoted text -
My point was, you criticize someone for placing more value on Muslim
lives than those of US people, but you do the same the other way
around.
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
Islamofascism indeed does advocate that infidels who are not Jews or
Christians convert or die; Jews or Christians are given an additional
choice of being a dhimmi.
Islamofascism views the lives of Muslims as more valuable than
nonMuslims and that is why if you study the Koran and other rules you
will see there are really two sets of rules. We can call it "insane",
we can call it unfair but that is what the religion says in its
purest form. Look at the life of Mohammad if you do not believe me
and look at some of the Muslim leaders that followed. Now, again, if
all of this violence just stopped 1000 years ago and was not being
preached today I would have a different view. But it is happening
today, and in countries under Sharia law it is sanctioned on a
government level. Just look at what happens in some countries if
someone is Muslim and they want to convert to Christianity
Bernie Woodham
>
>
> They were both in Texas and they both involved brutal, cold hearted
> murders. And both are claiming insanity.
>
> I am disgusted because Yates got away with it. I hope Hasan doesn't.
She "got away with it". Every mother's dream. Kill your kids and "get
away with it".
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hmmm well I can see how you would think I said that. Look let me say
this: if Hasan were at the United Nations visiting as a tourist,
surrounded by people from all different countries, and he whipped out
several guns and started shooting yelling "God is great" in Arabic, I
still would be very angry with what he did and the fact that he is a
doctor, and an American soldier would make me even angrier. He took
an oath as a doctor and an oath as an American GI and he is a disgrace
to both professions as far as I am concerned as well as being a
murderer. If his victums were innocents from some other country I
still would be very angry with what he did . The irony in the
current situation is that as a psychiatrist and an officer in our army
he was expected to help these people around him. Instead he shot
them. It would be like a priest or a rabbi coming into a house of
worship , with all the people expecting this person to help them and
then the priest or rabbi whips out a gun and starts shooting people
yelling "God is great."
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
Another comment to what you said....I would say that even if every
person Hasan killed were Muslim I would be very angry with what he
did. You know for all of us when bullets go flying they do not
discriminate. In a way the fact that he is an American soldier makes
his crime more dispicable to me. He has given psychiatrists in the
military a very bad name, he has given the American military a very
bad name, he has destroyed the trust that enlisted soldiers should
have for their officers in a medical setting etc. And IMO, he did it
in the name of God. Yes he will claim he was insane or his lawyer will
try to not have him take the witness stand, however, I believe he
did it as part of the "lesser jihad".
Bernie Woodham
> He has given psychiatrists in the
> military a very bad name,
Yes, I think we should kick all psychiatrists out of the army and
quarantine them.
Fattuchus
> On Nov 24, 9:04 pm, topaz <topazgal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > We can all agree that Hasan is a psychiatrist and certainly if he
> > choses to pretend to be insane or answer all the questions to make
> > believe he is insane, he can. I believe that the truth is , he is a
> > jihadist who made a decision to follow the lesser jihad instead of
> > supporting his fellow soldiers.
>
> Just because the man is a psychiatrist doesn't make him an actor.
> Anymore than it makes him sane. Those people can have their faults and
> problems too.
>
> Jihadist or not, it's not very rational to take a gun and begin
> shooting people without provocation. Nor is it a very sound strategy
> in solving your problems.
It makes perfect sense to a jihadist.
>
> Think about it: You are assuming that he knew he would not be killed.
> You are saying he *planned* to randomly shoot people and he *planned*
> to walk away alive.
>
> If not, then your saying he began randomly shooting people without any
> regard for the outcome. Does that sound *sane* to you?
>
> Now, you might say something on the order of, "Oh, but he's a
> jihadist. So that was his motive - his rationale."
>
> But if he's really a jihadist representing the cause of Islam, why is
> he allowing his lawyers to claim insanity?
Actually, now that Crissti explained it, I think that is a valid
point.
One answer might be, "Hasan changed his mind. Now he wants to live."
Or here's another: "Now he is paralysed and he won't be sent overseas
to possibly kill brother Muslims, so he is no longer violating his
religious beliefs. He succeeded in getting out of his military
commitment."
Here's another one: "Hasan is a jihadist, but to be a successful one,
he must DIE while slaughtering infidels. He did kill and injure as
many non-believers as he could, which pleases Allah, but his mission
failed because he did not die. Hence, he is stuck right now. But one
day when he does die, Allah will smile upon him for killing all those
descendants of apes and pigs."
Fattuchus
>
> I am perfectly calm; I'm just tired of you and Fatts pretending that you
> are the source of wisdom on Islam, terrorism, and the like.
"Pretending?" Whose "pretending"? :-)
Fattuchus
>
> - Show quoted text -
IMO the issue is not merely placing more value on Muslim lives. The
issue is the fact that he joined the US Armed Forces knowing that the
US might be at war in Muslim countries. He shouldn't have joined if
he felt the way he did.
Secondly, Hasan MURDERED people. There's a big difference between
having a personal opinion and murdering people.
Fattuchus
You appear to be making the false assumption that no sane mother would
kill her child. IMO a parent can be perfectly sane and kill his/her
kids. It's a horrid, disgusting, awful thing to do, but that does not
mean the parent is insane.
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
Agree Fatts. Yes for Hasan the situation has changed indeed....now he
cannot go overseas and be put into the position of possibly killing
his fellow Muslims. That may have solved the ethical dilemma for him.
And by the fundamentalist beliefs of his faith, he may believe that he
will still go to Paradise because he fought for Allah. See, he wins
this way, in his way of jihadist thinking.
The other issue is the Muslim concept of taqiyya. I will let folks
look this up for now. Then there is the following Hadith, very famous
saying of Mohammad
Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'"
Hey Bernie, here is another Hadith for you! If Hasan defines himself
as being a Muslim who is at war right now, he will use deceit as a
justafiable tactic to try to be cleared of his charges.
Crisstti
No, he obviously shouldn't. Quite a strange situation, actually.
> Secondly, Hasan MURDERED people. There's a big difference between
> having a personal opinion and murdering people.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
But that was not my point. My point was that you cannot criticize
someone for doing what you're doing. So if you value someone's life
more because of their nationality, race or religion, how are you going
to criticize someone else for doing that?.
(Topaz seemed to say he/she doesn't do that, though).
Crisstti
That is posible (if he is a terrorist, which we don't know for sure
yet).
> Or here's another: "Now he is paralysed and he won't be sent overseas
> to possibly kill brother Muslims, so he is no longer violating his
> religious beliefs. He succeeded in getting out of his military
> commitment."
>
That makes no sense. He had other far easier ways of getting out.
> Here's another one: "Hasan is a jihadist, but to be a successful one,
> he must DIE while slaughtering infidels. He did kill and injure as
> many non-believers as he could, which pleases Allah, but his mission
> failed because he did not die. Hence, he is stuck right now. But one
> day when he does die, Allah will smile upon him for killing all those
> descendants of apes and pigs."- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mmm... I don't think it's part of the idea of Muslim terrorists to die
wile "killing infidels"?. I doubt it's some kid of requirement. I
get the impression they are just willing to die, but beause they don't
really have the resources to do it otherwise...
Fattuchus
> On Nov 27, 6:28 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
> > > My point was, you criticize someone for placing more value on Muslim
> > > lives than those of US people, but you do the same the other way
> > > around.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > IMO the issue is not merely placing more value on Muslim lives. The
> > issue is the fact that he joined the US Armed Forces knowing that the
> > US might be at war in Muslim countries. He shouldn't have joined if
> > he felt the way he did.
>
> No, he obviously shouldn't. Quite a strange situation, actually.
>
> > Secondly, Hasan MURDERED people. There's a big difference between
> > having a personal opinion and murdering people.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> But that was not my point. My point was that you cannot criticize
> someone for doing what you're doing. So if you value someone's life
> more because of their nationality, race or religion, how are you going
> to criticize someone else for doing that?.
Now I better understand what you are saying. Let me clarify.
This is my personal opinion: in an ideal world, where all men and
women live in peace, I value all human life equally. To me all human
life should be equal in the eyes of the law and the Creator.
But when one group of people (i.e. Arabs) repeatedly kill, subjugate,
attack, etc. another group of people, especially if that group of
people is me, my family and/or loved ones, then I don't tolerate that
well. Not at all. And since there are very few Jews in the world,
and hundreds of millions of Arabs, IMO the survival of Jews under
attack (i.e. Israel) is of paramount importance. Am I making myself
clearer?
Fattuchus
I believe you are incorrect. It is my understanding that the goal of
the jihadist is to commit suicide in such a way as to kill or hurt as
many non-believers as possible. Why fly the planes into the World
Trade Center? Why the suicide terrorist attacks in Israel and
elsewhere in restaurants and on buses? No, the goal is to kill Jews
and other "enemies."
RichL
Unfortunately, you're generalizing again.
That group of people does not repeatedly kill, subjugate, attack, etc.
Certain people who do that *belong* to that group, but you're once more
castigating an entire group of people on the basis of actions of
relatively few of them.
Fattuchus
Israel fought a war in 1948, a war in 1956, a war in 1967, a war in
1973 (????), a little war or two in Lebanon, a war in Gaza. That's at
least 6 wars since 1948, not to mention hundreds if not thousands of
terrorist attacks, an unprovoked attack by Sadam Hussein during the
Kuwait war, etc.
Jews have been expelled from and/or subjugated in every Arab country I
can think of. Nations like Syria and Iraq accomplished what Hitler
could not. That's a fact.
Arab nations to this date have very small Jewish populations, if any
at all. Even so called Westernized, friendly Arab nations like Kuwait
and Lebanon, Jews are described as descendants of monkeys and pigs and
enemies of Islam and/ or the Arab people.
IMO you tend to see things through very rosey glasses.
Crisstti
>
> - Show quoted text -
The goal is obviously to kill others. but is it part of the goal to
die themselves while doing it?. Doesn't seem that way to me.
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
Cristti, this Hadith may answer your question:
Volume 1, Book 2, Number 35:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "The person who participates in (Holy battles) in
Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah
and His Apostles, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward,
or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise (if he is
killed in the battle as a martyr). Had I not found it difficult for my
followers, then I would not remain behind any sariya going for Jihad
and I would have loved to be martyred in Allah's cause and then made
alive, and then martyred and then made alive, and then again martyred
in His cause."
Mohammad is the one talking in the Hadith. Basically he told his men
if they fought for Allah and stayed alive they were rewarded with the
booty of battle (slaves, gold, jewels, land, wives etc); the greater
reward is if one dies in battle--you are surely admitted to Paradise
if you die in battle. Mohammad feels this is so wonderful he would be
willing to be killed in battle again and again and again.
BLACKPOOLJIMMY
>
> - Show quoted text -
The fiction of Religion is baffling.
Wars over God is as foolish too me as shooting someone for their
parking space.
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
Here is another Hadith that I just happened to find; when one
considers what happened on 9/11 it is an interesting Hadith indeed;
from "Malik's Muwatta book 8":
Book 8, Number 8.2.6:
Yahya related to me from Malik from Sumayy, the mawla of Abu Bakr ibn
Abd ar-Rahman from Abu Salih from Abu Hurayra that the Messenger of
Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "If a man who is
walking along a road finds a branch of thorns on the road and removes
it, Allah thanks him for doing it and forgives him."
He also said, "Martyrs are five: the one killed by a plague, the one
killed by a disease of the belly, the one who drowns, the one killed
by a collapsing building, and the martyr in the path of Allah.'
Note in this passage there are 5 ways to become a martyr including one
who is killed by a collapsing building. Considering these Hadiths were
written down during the life of Mohammad or not too long after his
death I think this is pretty coincidental. I do not know of Al Quaida
took this very seriously.
Fattuchus
I could be wrong . . . I don't claim to be an expert.
I had thought that the goal IS for them to die because in their mind,
if they die while killing infidels, they go straight to Paradise.
Fattuchus
Yup. How ironic that Hasan is still alive. And paralysed.
who?
You can say that again.
Fattuchus
I agree. Foolish and criminal.
I can't believe that G-d would want to see His children fighting and
hurting each other.
Fattuchus
Plague, eh? Sounds like they are looking for biological warfare.
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
Still do not feel sorry for him. Wonder how many of his victims lived
and are paralysed. I feel sorry for the nurses and doctors having to
care for him. I think to be a health care professional and take care
of someone you know is a pedophile (not Hasan) or a killer (Hasan)
must be difficult; how do you have true compassion for the patient?
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yea those old Hadiths are a bit interesting aren't they? Wonder if
there was a Hadith as to what happened to the goat that ate the scroll
that contained the Koran. Was't it documented that when Mohammad got
the Divine word, even though he was illiterate, he wrote it down on a
scroll and then a goat ate it from under his bed so he then said he
memorized it? Hey where are those Jewish scribes when ya need one?
BLACKPOOLJIMMY
>
> - Show quoted text -
ENOUGH ALREADY.....
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
Uh oh Jimmy's getting cranky. Must have been a long week.
RichL
Stop projecting.
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
I am not projecting. Though I do try to shed light from time to
time :). BTW any new grand kid yet? Now we are all waiting. Is the
date Dec 3rd as I recall? Good luck with the new baby.
topaz
>
> - Show quoted text -
Fatts, here is a jihadist web post-- they think the Ft Hood shooter
is a hero
http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD266709
I'm not surprised......Notice how they say
"The actions of Nidal Malik Hasan were not contrary to the religion of
Islam, rather they are encouraged by it" (their words not mine).
Yup...Islam the religion of "peace"
Crisstti
>
> - Mostrar texto de la cita -
Oh, so you take their word then?. I suspect you wouldn't about other
things.