R9 (12) Orgins of Revolution 9
ian hammond
"Revolution 9" (12) -- Origins of "Revolution 9"
================================================
This is the twelfth article in a series examining "Revolution 9". This
episode looks at the issue of the origins of the piece. I expect to
revise this article considerably in the months to come. It will be
stored at my web site www.beathoven.com.
Introduction
============
Where did Lennon's epochal "Revolution 9" come from? A simple question
that needs answering from a number of angles, including musical,
cultural and commercial aspects. I'm going to concentrate on the
musical angle in this article.
Before Beatles
==============
The use of sound effects, loops, backwards music pre-dates the
Beatles. Beethoven created backwards/upside-down music by turning the
viola part of a piece music upside down and improvising around it.
Vaughan Williams transcribed a piece of music that he held up to a
mirror. Beethoven also composed for mechanical devices.
Although the general listening public may find the use of noise in
music, a musician needs little explanation. George Martin released his
own electronic music record under the name of 'Ray Cathode' long
before he met the Beatles. In the so-called "argument interview"
Lennon says that he learned all he need to know about noise when the
band used to go crazy on stage in Hamburg. The Christmas acetates show
their ability to improvise with sound.
A number of sources have been proposed for "Revolution 9".
John Cage's "Variations IV" was created by two performers each
equipped with a sound studio and a array of sound effects. The
recording captures segments of the performance which lasted many
hours. Like "Revolution 9", Cage's piece employs a sequence of sound
effects and fragments of recordings. Beyond that there is little
resemblance. However, Cage could hardly be considered unique. The
fifties and sixties were full of avant garde music, some of which
could be heard on the eclectic BBC. I have an 80 page bibliography
dedicated to electronic music that was printed in 1964. "Contemporary
music" was perhaps more accessible at time, in a period colored by
beat poets and modern jazz, than it is now. The Hamburg "exis" would
have been another channel.
Glenn Gould's "soundscapes" consist of oral history interviews which
are mixed and overdubbed. I have yet to find anyone who has actually
listened to more than a small part of these unlistenable pieces.
There is no evidence that Lennon had heard either Cage's or Gould's
work before recording "Revolution 9".
Searching for establishment influences is as useless as listing James
Joyce as an influence for Lennon's books. In 1968, Abbey Road was
pioneering recording studio techniques. "Revolution 9" is a
celebration of electronic artifacts as instruments. In any case, I
will show below that "Revolution" was no more than a logical
development of the techniques the Beatles had already developed.
Frank Zappa's own use of sound is more like street music than Lennon's
sophisticated work. We know that Lennon listened to Zappa and
Beefheart, however their influence would have been restricted to
challenging Lennon.
The Rolling Stone's SATANIC MAJESTY'S PLEASURE, released after SGT
PEPPER, upped the ante on the use of noise in mainstream pop, Lennon's
home territory. The Stones finished side one of their 1966 album with
a 10 minute instrumental. On SATANIC they had a number of sections
which consisted purely of noise or noise plus music. The Stones' were
much closer to home than Zappa or Beefheart. Lennon participated in
Stones' sessions at the time.
Apart from the fact that Lennon does not use a regular musical
formation, there is little resemblance between the works cited above
and "Revolution 9". Lennon uses tape loops and dubs to imitate the
sections of an imaginary orchestra and choir in a formally structured
work where almost every detail has been skillfully mixed.
Yoko Ono is cited as a possible influence. Lennon has characterized
her presence at the time as "inspiring him rather than inspiring the
music". Ono certainly was a "performer" on "Revolution 9". I will show
below that Lennon's first attempt at "Revolution 9" was more akin to
the TWO VIRGINS "happening" approach. The second attempt reverted to
the techniques of pop music making.
Yoko was there for the whole thing and she made decisions about
which loops to use. It was somewhat under her influence, I suppose.
Once I heard her stuff -- the just the screeching and the howling
but her sort of word pieces and talking and breathing and all this
strange stuff, I thought, My God, I got intrigued, so I wanted
to do one.
Lennon DSL159
The overwhelming major influence on "Revolution 9" is the Beatles'
work in 1966, 1967 and 1968 along with Lennon's own work at home. I
will attempt to show below that "Revolution 9" arose as a natural
evolutionary step that began with "Tomorrow Never Knows" and the
outros of "Rain" and "Strawberry Fields Forever". To achieve that goal
I will first review the Beatles' use of sound effects.
1966: REVOLVER
==============
The Beatles use of noise on albums coincides with the adoption of LSD
by Lennon and the Harrison's use of Indian music. The first such track
recorded was Lennon's "Tomorrow Never Knows". Lennon's "concept" was a
thousand chanting Tibetan monks. The rejected first take is based on a
single repeating loop, techno style.
All four Beatles produced tape loops for the session which Martin and
Emerick managed. Unexplained remains the fact that the "musical" loops
are all in C major and use the same distinctive notes that Lennon's
tune stresses. The piece finishes with a piano fragment (not unlike a
passage in TWO VIRGINS).
"Tomorrow Never Knows" was the first track recorded for REVOLVER and
the track which closed the album.
Next was Lennon's "Rain" which introduced backwards singing. Lennon
and Martin both claimed credit, however "Tomorrow Never Knows" already
shows backward guitar. "Rain" features an Indian-style chorus and the
first true-blue psychedelic Beatles outro. The band track was recorded
fast and slowed down. The resulting "slow motion" drum part may have
been the model for Starr's scuffed drum style.
The Beatles studio techniques were revolutionized during these two
sessions.
Let's review the 1966 Lennon tracks:
I'm Only Sleeping Backwards guitar.
She Said She Said Indian style
And Your Bird Can Sing Regular
Dr Robert Regular
Tomorrow Never Knows Indian, Loops, Backward Guitar, Concept
Other Beatle tracks employing noise:
Love To You Harrison's Indian style mini raga.
The remaining tracks were regular. "Yellow Submarine" was the first
Beatle track to employ a comedy section.
1967: SGT PEPPER
================
The first track recorded for Pepper was "Strawberry Fields Forever".
According to Martin, the song rewrote the rules, setting the model for
the Pepper sessions. The final track spliced sections of two takes,
one of them slowed down appropriately. Backwards cymbals make their
first appearance. A mad Beatles percussion section forms the basis of
the Brass version. The track ends with a burst of backwards music. The
Beatles' outro style reaches early maturity.
Importantly, we hear spoken voices in the outro (and thirty years on
we're still discussing "Cranberry Sauce", a line that would fit right
into "Revolution 9"). The outro of "Strawberry Fields" would have made
a great ending to SGT PEPPER, however, the track was milked for a
single.
Interestingly, Lennon immediately produced "A Day In The Life", an
equally revolutionary song, which became the end track. Lennon
explained his "concept" to fill the gaps with a climax (based probably
on the traditional rock climax we also hear in "Day Tripper"). The
piece finishes with a huge piano chord.
Lennon's pieces in Pepper time:
Lucy In The Sky Indian
Benefit Of Mr Kite Concept, chopped up tapes,
Good Morning Concept ending; effects
A Day In The Life Concept avant garde break; effects; backwards
Strawberry Fields Indian, spoken, backwards
Harrison's one song was purely Indian. McCartney's "Getting Better"
featured Indian instruments. The remaining tracks were regular. The
album finished with a Nutopian piece for dogs and an endless loop of
backwards spoken nonsense.
1967/1968: MAGICAL SUBMARINE
=======================
Lennon's contribution to MAGICAL MYSTERY TOUR was his Opus Magnum
"Walrus". Lennon explores the use of pure noise (leading to the
bridge) and audio verite by recording a live Radio feed over the final
mix.
Lennon supplied a home-recorded tape collage for the Spaghetti scene
and the backwards outro for "Flying", a band composition.
Lennon's songs from the period:
I Am The Walrus Noise, Spoken, Radio
Hey Bulldog Spoken dialog in outro
All You Need Is Love Multiple songs in outro
Baby You're A Rich Man Indian, effects,
Jesse's Dream Tape collage
Flying Backwards outro
It's noteworthy that two Lennon tracks, with various effects, did not
get released at the time.
You Know My Name Effects; spoken
Across The Universe Untrained singers, backwards, effects
Harrison adopted electronic effects in this period. His film music for
WONDERWALL features electronic and backwards music.
The Inner Light Indian
Blue Jay Way Indian, effects, backwards
Only A Northern Song Effects, noise
All Too Much Indian, feedback, (spoken?)
WONDERWALL Indian, effects, timed!
McCartney's songs continue to explore orchestral and band instruments.
Magical Mystery Tour Bus sounds
1968: WHITE ALBUM
=================
Two Virgins:
============
On the night Lennon recorded TWO VIRGINS with Yoko Ono he first played
her some of his electronic music. A preliminary study of TWO VIRGINS
seems to show that Lennon recorded himself and Ono *over* existing
electronic tracks that Lennon had prepared, including a piano loop.
While Ono sang and provided dialog, Lennon played a variety of
instruments and also provided dialog. Essentially, the piece is a
sixties "happening"
"Revolution 18"
===============
The first month of WHITE ALBUM sessions was largely concerned with
Lennon's versions of "Revolution". No other piece of Lennon music
received as much love and care as "Revolution 9". The only other
tracks recorded were Ringo's "Don't Pass Me By" and Paul's
"Blackbird".
Lennon must have been determined to challenge the Beatles. Breaking an
old taboo, he brought his partner, Yoko Ono, to the sessions. His
first goal was to record an overtly political song, "Revolution",
which he wanted released as a single. The outro planned for
"Revolution" was planned to include tape loops and sound effects.
Perhaps Lennon was posing the question: "Are we still going to take
chances brothers? Or are we going to start playing it safe?".
"Revolution" was planned to be radical in the same sense that REVOLVER
and SGT PEPPER had been. That meant going further than the unreleased
seven minute "It's All Too Much" at least.
Speaking about "Revolution 1", Lennon said:
Completely me... I absolutely wanted the Beatles to say something
about the war.
The first take of Revolution - well, George and Paul were
resentful and said it wasn't fast enough... But the Beatle could have
afforded to put out the slow, understandable version of Revolution as
a single...
But because they were so upset over the Yoko thing and the fact
that I was again becoming as creative and dominating as I had been in
the early days, after lying fallow for a couple of years, it upset
the applecart. I was awake again and they weren't used to it.
{Was it Yoko's inspiration?}
She inspired all this creation in me. It wasn't that she inspired
the songs; she inspired me...
Lennon, DSL158
Lennon's first version of "Revolution", which I will call "Revolution
18" (it was take 18), was ten minutes long.
I have not heard outtakes of "Revolution 18". Let's try to picture it.
The first four minutes became "Revolution 1". The last six minutes
probably began with the band pumping and Lennon moaning "alright" (we
hear that in "Revolution 9"). Lennon and Ono improvised vocally. A
dozen sound effects or so were dubbed.
At some point the rhythm section, drums and guitars, drop out all
together. That also happens on "What's The New Mary Jane". According
to Lewisohn, Lennon did most of the dubbing alone. His Beatle brothers
were no longer pursuing this path. Indian influences were also dropped
at this time.
The form of "Revolution 18" is like that of "It's All Too Much" or
"All You Need Is Love": a long outro with various things going on. The
difference would be that the outro on "Revolution 18" would have been
more dissonant. Perhaps the tracks that best compare would be the
outro of "Only A Northern Song" or the dissonant section of "What's
The New Mary Jane".
A WHITE ALBUM with "Revolution 18"
====================================
In other words, "Revolution" began life as a *big* Beatles track with
an outro, destined to end the album, building on the tradition of
"Walrus" etc. Nothing special, just the next step.
What would the album have looked like? The last side might have begun
with "What's The New Mary Jane", running through "Honey Pie", "Savoy
Truffle", "Good Night", "Cry Baby Cry" and closing on the ten minute
version of "Revolution 18".
The Big Snip
============
At some time after June 4 Lennon decided to split the song into two
pieces. He may have decided to shorten "Revolution 1" for release as a
single, which was certainly his intention.
He may have initially planned to simply take the six minute outro and
develop it further. Schwartz reports that rerecorded some loops that
he was dissatisfied with. One possibility is that some of his home
tape loops may have had too much background hiss (which is heard on
TWO VIRGINS). Another possibility is that the outro just didn't work
as he had envisaged.
In any case, a tape Lennon took home of take 20 from the June 4
dubbing session is the last we hear of the 10 minute version. Two days
later he was back collecting loops for the stage adaptation of "In His
Own Write" and for "Revolution 9". He spent three sessions at least
preparing the loops.
Lennon waited almost two weeks, until June 20, before he recorded the
basic track of "Revolution 9". Apart from other projects with Ono, he
needed to get a night where he could utilize all three studios in the
building. He also required one person per loop, so I guess most of the
technical staff must have been present. That would have taken some
planning.
Well, the slow version of Revolution on the album went on and
on and on and I took the fade-out part, which is what they do
with disco records now, and just layered all this stuff over it.
It has the basic rhythm of the original Revolution going on with
some twenty loops we put on, things from the archives of EMI.
We were cutting up classical music and making different-size
loops, and then I got an engineer tape on which some test
engineer was saying, "Number nine, number nine, number nine."
All those different bits of sound and noises are all compiled.
There were about ten machines with people holding pencils on the
loops -- some only inches long and some a yard long.
I fed them all in and mixed them live. I did a few mixes until
I got one I liked.
Lennon DSL159
So, in essence, the piece began as an attempt to apply a "happening"
(with Ono) to the outro of "Revolution 18". Lennon discarded the
result, but it led him to develop to develop a separate piece,
"Revolution 9".
What remains unexplained is how and when he decided to adopt the
technique of using loops to "orchestrate" "Revolution 9" and to
structure the work so clearly. There is no parallel for either of
these features in *any* of the works cited as potential influences.
I spent more time on Revolution 9 than I did on half the other
songs I wrote. It was a montage.
Lennon DSL159
For pleasure I would never listen to [my own records].
When I hear them, I just think of the session... the eight hours
of mixing Revolution 9 -- whatever...
I remember every detail of the work.
Lennon DSL47
AFTER REVOLUTION
================
"Revolution 9" can be seen as the (logical) conclusion of the
experimentation that characterized Peppertime.
It's facile to suggest that the Beatles gave birth to rap, punk,
techno and the rest. On the other hand, the Beatles' influence is
enormous and lasting. I hear "Revolution 9" when I listen to the
Beastie Boys, but perhaps not for the reason you might think. The
Beastie Boys use loops etc *instead* of augmenting their band with
additional musicians, not just for sound effects. That's basically
what Lennon did on "Revolution 9": he used loops as instruments, not
just as noise. But to suggest an origin for the Beastie Boys in John
Lennon would be akin to suggesting an origin for "Revolution 9" in
John Cage.
As a Beatle, Lennon's interest in noise as a major focus ends with
"Revolution 9". He did not complete "Mary Jane". The initial "it's a
goal" ending for "Glass Onion" was dropped. The Beatles moved on.
In his mainstream work, he limited himself to using noise to color the
edges of tracks rather than play a central role. The use of white
noise on "I Want You" is a prime example. DOUBLE FANTASY has a good
deal of interesting "noise".
Lennon continued his avant garde work with Yoko Ono in sound, on film
and with "happenings" based on their JohnAndYoko image until about
1972.
Next up in this series is an overview of the basic form of the whole
piece.
--
ian
Copyright (C) Ian Hammond 1999. All rights reserved.
Previous articles are available at www.beathoven.com.
--
All follow-ups are directed to the newsgroup rec.music.beatles.moderated.
If your follow-up more properly belongs in the unmoderated newsgroup, please
change your headers appropriately. -- the moderators
interstate5
i...@hammo.com stated:
>
>================================================
>"Revolution 9" (12) -- Origins of "Revolution 9"
>================================================
Wow, Ian. That's the best thing you've written yet.
I do believe that the various music concrete compositions of the late 1950s and
1960s heavily influenced Revolution 9, not so much in that they inspired Lennon
but that they awoke him to the technique of expression that underlies it.
I think to find the inspiration for Revolution 9 (particularly its initial
incarnation as "Revolution 18") one has to look to two major influences, both of
which are bound up with a dream-like psychedelia: surrealism and the Vietnam
War.
One approach is that what Lennon was instinctively trying to do by putting this
coda on the end of a more conventional song was akin to what the point of
departure at which the surrealists took painting beyond cubism and its carefully
integrated use of collage.
Revolution 9 seems very cinematic to me -- reminding me of the filmic collage
more than the music concrete of the day. There is no gradual shifting of one
element into another, no blending -- individual elements appear briefly and
disappear; perhaps to appear again, perhaps not. This is the cinematic collage
used to such great effect in a number of films, including many films about war
deeply influenced by the surrealists (and "How I Won the War" is one possible
example). But Revolution 9 may have influenced more films than influenced it,
since the technique appeared more often afterwards (including in Yellow
Submarine in the "trip to pepperland" sequence that plays over the top of the
"Day in the life" snippet). Such filmic collages are by their nature violent
and harrowing, as images (sometimes graphic) flash by in an "uncontrolled"
state, the normal laws of editing suspended (no establishing shots, no normal
montage, no framing devices).
A scene deeply influenced by Revolution 9 (IMHO) occurs near the finale of the
harrowing Soviet-era Russian film "Come and See" (1985). The hero of the film,
having witnessed the Nazi army razing and pillaging two Byelorussian villages
(including the placement of the woman and babies into a single building in each
village which was then torched and strafed) and having participated in the
summary execution of a number of German officers captured by the Soviet army,
spies (in true surrealist fashion) a framed poster of the Fuhrer floating in a
filthy lagoon as the remains of his outfit marches off to the next town. His
soul rent to its very core, he fires his rifle insanely into the framed picture,
action that is intercut in a very extended collage sequence with a rapid flash
of images of Hitler and third Reich, concentration camps, etc (the soundtrack,
including moments of Strauss, is no less harrowing). Yet we know that this 15
year old soldier from a remote Byelorussian village could hardly have ever seen
these images -- the collage is not a facile representation of what is going on
in his head. Yet it is clearly there to represent, or at least to augment, the
emotion of the moment. And in that way the collage of images transcends image,
transcends memory and becomes the purely abstract representation of evil and
insanity.
It is an immensely powerful moment, coming at the end of a haunting but
comparatively conventional narrative film about war. It is a scream, as if to
say, the medium is insufficient to represent the message. Revolution 9, yoked
to the end of Revolution 1, would undoubtedly have had the same effect -- and
been subject to the same criticism of self-indulgence that invariably
accompanies such genre-transforming experiments. And yet it would have been
powerful.
interstate5
John Yates
"ian hammond" <i...@hammo.com> wrote in message
news:386d1954...@news.remarq.com...
> ================================================
> "Revolution 9" (12) -- Origins of "Revolution 9"
> ================================
>
> Before Beatles
> ==============
<snip>
> Vaughan Williams
> Beethoven
<snip>
Best for mirroring and "mathematical" manipulation, etc. in the older music
is Bach: see Goldburg
Variations which has a nice Glenn Gould connection (for a fun introduction,
see the novel
"The Goldbug Variations" by Richard Powers - ISBN: 0060975008 )
> John Cage's "Variations IV"
> Glenn Gould's "soundscapes"
I was going to mention Stockhausen. From deja.com I see you are aware of
him as a possible influence. I would
be tempted to list him here as the Beatles were aware of him at this time
and there does seem to be a relation.
And, although unheard by many, I suspect the Paul's (it was just Paul,
right?) "Festival of Lights" was heard by
Lennon and might have been an influence.
Francie
have always heard Revolution #9 exactly as John intended it. Noise
used as "color", orchestrating the loops to create a completed
whole. For many years I heard it as a minisymphony with four
movements. Then I replayed Two Virgins (not as frequently, because
it is much longer, with a 'recitative' feel that #9 eschews).
Thanks for Part 1 -- looking forward to Part 2.
And the quotes from John were terrifically helpful as well. I've not
read many of those. He affirms my private speculations about Yoko,
too. It was clear to me when I saw them together over the period of
months that there was cross-fertilization (musically speaking, of
course), but that she "turned him on" rather than imposing her
artistic/sound performance powers on the musical "product".
Aside: Those first few weeks of nothing but Revolution, the tempo
slowed infinitesimally as the hashish intake increased... ;-) and it
didn't feel too slow when it was being recorded -- only when played
back the day after!
francie
--
“One must still have some chaos
within oneself in order to give birth
to a dancing star.” -- Neitzche
~~~~~~~~~~~
http://sites.netscape.net/fabest
paramucho
>Best for mirroring and "mathematical" manipulation, etc. in the older music
>is Bach: see Goldburg
>Variations which has a nice Glenn Gould connection (for a fun introduction,
>see the novel
>"The Goldbug Variations" by Richard Powers - ISBN: 0060975008 )
And "The Art Of The Fugue" of course. I discussed the fugue related aspects
of "Revolution 9" last year. The article is www.beathoven.com under
/songs/r9/ "voices and form". You'll find all the articles in the series
on R9 there.
>> John Cage's "Variations IV"
>> Glenn Gould's "soundscapes"
>
>I was going to mention Stockhausen. From deja.com I see you are aware of
>him as a possible influence. I would be tempted to list him here as the
>Beatles were aware of him at this time and there does seem to be a relation.
McCartney mentions a Stockhausen piece in MYFN. Beyond that I have no
references. There were many modern composers active at the time. I have yet
to see any evidence that Lennon listened to this music and I have seen none
at all to suggest that he was influenced by it. In fact, in the "argument
interview" he seems to vehemently deny being influenced in that sense, saying
that the discordant jams in Hamburg was all the introduction he needed.
>And, although unheard by many, I suspect the Paul's (it was just Paul,
>right?) "Festival of Lights" was heard by
>Lennon and might have been an influence.
"Carnival Of Light" remains one of the mysteries of the Beatles product. It
is apparently unbooted. The 14 minute piece seems to have been created by
recording the two or more Beatles on to each of four tracks using standard
instruments, vocals and some sound effects. Beyond that little is known and
thus little can be said. Lennon's remarks regarding the chaotic jams in
Hamburg apply until then. There is a rumour that McCartney wanted the piece
on the Anthology release but that it was vetoed by Harrison as "self indulgent".
--
ian
Tom
>McCartney mentions a Stockhausen piece in MYFN. Beyond that I have no
>references. There were many modern composers active at the time. I have yet
>to see any evidence that Lennon listened to this music and I have seen none
>at all to suggest that he was influenced by it.
I have seen it mentioned that he liked Stockhausen, even calling him to tell
him of his admiration for a specific piece.
I wonder how familiar he was with AMM. No one else has suggested them as an
influence, even though McCartney not only was friendly with them, he once
appeared on stage with them. (and ruined the gig, it sounds like). It's
possible that John knew their music, since they played at the 14 hour
Technicolor Dream, which John attended, and they were friendly with Yoko and
provided music for the opening of her exhibition. (Presumably the same one
that John saw, though not necessarily on the same day.)
The radio in I Am The Walrus is as likely derived from them as it is from
Cage, since AMM had been incorporating found sounds from radios into their
performances as early as 1966.
paramucho
>Just read your new article, and what I find most remarkable is, I
>have always heard Revolution #9 exactly as John intended it. Noise
>used as "color", orchestrating the loops to create a completed
>whole.
Yes, that's what I had in mind. Do you recall anything from the loop
session which seemed to point in that direction or any remarks he made
that indicated that as being his intention?
>For many years I heard it as a minisymphony with four
>movements. Then I replayed Two Virgins (not as frequently, because
>it is much longer, with a 'recitative' feel that #9 eschews).
I think of it as having three major sections, but there are divisions
within those sections. My next task for "Revolution 9" is to summarise
my detailed survey into a general roadmap to the piece.
>Thanks for Part 1 -- looking forward to Part 2.
>
>And the quotes from John were terrifically helpful as well. I've not
>read many of those. He affirms my private speculations about Yoko,
>too. It was clear to me when I saw them together over the period of
>months that there was cross-fertilization (musically speaking, of
>course), but that she "turned him on" rather than imposing her
>artistic/sound performance powers on the musical "product".
Well, you would perhaps be able to confirm or deny an idea I have
here: Looking at his behaviour, from the earliest days until his later
years, he seems to me to have been very shy artistically. Perhaps
that's not quite the right description: I have the feeling that he was
very self-conscious. I hear that in the opening remarks on TWO VIRGINS
or on any demo where he speaks.
Given that, Yoko Ono seems to have inspired him to *do* things and to
jump over his shadow, so I hear a more assertive Lennon after she
arrived in his world right through to 1970. I think we can hear this,
in particular, in the amount of guitar work he did on the WHITE ALBUM
and ABBEY ROAD sessions.
>Aside: Those first few weeks of nothing but Revolution, the tempo
>slowed infinitesimally as the hashish intake increased... ;-) and it
>didn't feel too slow when it was being recorded -- only when played
>back the day after!
There was so little going down in that first month. Apart from
"Revolution", Paul and Ringo recorded "Don't Pass Me By" and Paul did
"Blackbird" solo. George doesn't seem to have done anything except an
afternoon with John on the "Revolution 9" dubs. Was there any sense of
"just warming up slowly" or do you think there were other motivations
that kept them from working a little harder?
--
ian
paramucho
<interstat...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>I do believe that the various music concrete compositions of the late 1950s and
>1960s heavily influenced Revolution 9, not so much in that they inspired Lennon
>but that they awoke him to the technique of expression that underlies it.
>
>I think to find the inspiration for Revolution 9 (particularly its initial
>incarnation as "Revolution 18") one has to look to two major influences, both of
>which are bound up with a dream-like psychedelia: surrealism and the Vietnam
>War.
I agree with both those insights. Lennon's interest in surrealism goes
back to his earliest childhood. He equated the world he found in LSD
with the world he experienced as a child. We see bits of his
surrealism in his music and in his writing. I sometimes think it was
tied in with his kaleidescope vision which we see in lines like
"Images of broken light which dance before me like a million eyes" and
his later habit of leaving the television even though it was
completely out of focus.
If we accept Lennon's surrealism as a natural state, then he was
completely at home in Peppertime. Perhaps that's one reason he held on
and did "Revolution 9" after the other Beatles had more or less
abandoned "Peppertime" psychedelia.
Lennon states that "Revolution" was planned as a comment on the
Vietnam war (or just "The War"). That would have been the plan of the
outro in "Revolution 18". The question is, did the outro work out as
he had planned it? Perhaps it was a flop.
I think we can assume that he was dissatisfied with the copy of Take
20 that he took home and that led him to do a remake, as a separate
piece. When he did the remake I think he changed some of the
parameters. I hear more of WWII, a war he knew as a child, than I hear
of Vietnam, a world he didn't know and which wasn't as readily
available to the public in 1967 as wars in distant places are today.
"Revolution 9" is very much a psychedelic portrat of war, but I think
he "swapped" wars when he moved from "Revolution 18" to "Revolution
9".
>One approach is that what Lennon was instinctively trying to do by putting this
>coda on the end of a more conventional song was akin to what the point of
>departure at which the surrealists took painting beyond cubism and its carefully
>integrated use of collage.
It certainly would have married the two forms and may have had more
influence in that package, particularly had they released it as a
single.
In fact, Lennon found that the band was no longer willing to take the
kind of risks that produced SGT PEPPER. The Stones captured the market
Lennon had in mind with "Street Fighting Man". Lennon started doing
the projects that weren't suitable for the Beatles' image on his own.
That was the beginning of the end as he grew more interested in the
success of "Give Peace A Chance" and "Cold Turkey" than he was in the
success of Beatle product.
>Revolution 9 seems very cinematic to me -- reminding me of the filmic collage
>more than the music concrete of the day. There is no gradual shifting of one
>element into another, no blending -- individual elements appear briefly and
>disappear; perhaps to appear again, perhaps not. This is the cinematic collage
>used to such great effect in a number of films, including many films about war
>deeply influenced by the surrealists (and "How I Won the War" is one possible
>example).
You're a better judge of film music than I. There are one or two
concrete points I can raise. The Beatles had worked on their own film,
"Magical Mystery Tour" and handled the editing and music.
Harrison had put together the music for "Wonderwall" -- he took care
of all the operational tasks of notating the timeslots etc. It has
recently emerged that Lennon collaborated on at least one track.
"2001" opened in London on April 11 1968. Lennon was an avid fan ("I
go once a week"). I think of the things which strikes a musician is
how apt Kubrick's choices of music were. The "Blue Danube Waltz" was
non-intuitive, but really portrayed space as a mighty river. Now I've
forgotten what the music was that was played when travelling through
the rip in space, but I recall that it was contemporary.
During the preparation for "Revolution 9" Lennon put together the
music for the stage production of "In His Own Write". He attended the
premiere two nights before recording "Revolution 9".
>Revolution 9, yoked
>to the end of Revolution 1, would undoubtedly have had the same effect -- and
>been subject to the same criticism of self-indulgence that invariably
>accompanies such genre-transforming experiments. And yet it would have been
>powerful.
I think the contrast could have been very dramatic. To shift from the
laconic gum-chewing "can you dig it" mode into a true war-like chaos.
Of course, the lesson wasn't lost. There is one song which does manage
to portray real human drama with a sharp contrast between the song
proper and the outro: "Hey Jude".
--
ian
Erik Van Nimwegen
>
> McCartney mentions a Stockhausen piece in MYFN. Beyond that I have no
> references. There were many modern composers active at the time. I have yet
> to see any evidence that Lennon listened to this music and I have seen none
> at all to suggest that he was influenced by it.
I think the piece Paul mentions is "Gesang der Juenglinge". Funny
enough, the first time that I heard "what's the new mary jane" I
thought: that sounds *just* like gesang der juenglinge. (the pieces with
the wordless chatter)
Erik
Francie
>Just read your new article, and what I find most remarkable is, I
>have always heard Revolution #9 exactly as John intended it. Noise
>used as "color", orchestrating the loops to create a completed
>whole.
Yes, that's what I had in mind. Do you recall anything from the loop
session which seemed to point in that direction or any remarks he
made
that indicated that as being his intention?
No, that was just my impression on first hearing the piece, four
months later.
"Self-conscious" gets much closer. As if he were somewhat shocked at
what he'd put out. I certainly identify with that!
Given that, Yoko Ono seems to have inspired him to *do* things and
to
jump over his shadow, so I hear a more assertive Lennon after she
arrived in his world right through to 1970. I think we can hear
this,
in particular, in the amount of guitar work he did on the WHITE
ALBUM
and ABBEY ROAD sessions.
In my new book, I describe her as the "prophet of unlimited
possibilities" in John's life.
>Aside: Those first few weeks of nothing but Revolution, the tempo
>slowed infinitesimally as the hashish intake increased... ;-) and
it
>didn't feel too slow when it was being recorded -- only when played
>back the day after!
There was so little going down in that first month. Apart from
"Revolution", Paul and Ringo recorded "Don't Pass Me By" and Paul
did
"Blackbird" solo. George doesn't seem to have done anything except
an
afternoon with John on the "Revolution 9" dubs. Was there any sense
of
"just warming up slowly" or do you think there were other
motivations
that kept them from working a little harder?
Not warming up slowly, more like wading cautiously into a deep
river,
where'd they'd swum happily before; now none of them was quite sure
what undercurrents awaited.
To paraphrase the late Joseph Heller, something had happened.
francie
--
http://sites.netscape.net/fabest
"If art is to nourish the roots of our culture,
society must set the artist free to follow
his vision wherever it takes him."
- President John F. Kennedy,
Amherst College, October, 1963
paramucho
wrote:
>paramucho wrote:
>
>>
>> McCartney mentions a Stockhausen piece in MYFN. Beyond that I have no
>> references. There were many modern composers active at the time. I have yet
>> to see any evidence that Lennon listened to this music and I have seen none
>> at all to suggest that he was influenced by it.
>
>I think the piece Paul mentions is "Gesang der Juenglinge". Funny
>enough, the first time that I heard "what's the new mary jane" I
>thought: that sounds *just* like gesang der juenglinge. (the pieces with
>the wordless chatter)
I am still unclear when the "mix" of "What's The New Mary Jane" was
made. Some have said that the Anthology version was actually mixed
about ten years at Martin's French recording studio for the original
sessions release.
Does anyone have information on this topic?
--
ian
paramucho
>>McCartney mentions a Stockhausen piece in MYFN. Beyond that I have no
>>references. There were many modern composers active at the time. I have yet
>>to see any evidence that Lennon listened to this music and I have seen none
>>at all to suggest that he was influenced by it.
>
>I have seen it mentioned that he liked Stockhausen, even calling him to tell
>him of his admiration for a specific piece.
McCartney or Lennon?
> It's
>possible that John knew their music, since they played at the 14 hour
>Technicolor Dream, which John attended, and they were friendly with Yoko and
>provided music for the opening of her exhibition. (Presumably the same one
>that John saw, though not necessarily on the same day.)
I've responded to this point in a separate post. It seems the Lennon
attended on the 29th, probably well after the show had started on that
day.
>The radio in I Am The Walrus is as likely derived from them as it is from
>Cage, since AMM had been incorporating found sounds from radios into their
>performances as early as 1966.
McCartney said that he informed Lennon about Berio using this
technique. It reminds me of them travelling across Liverpool to see
the guy who knew how to play a B7 chord.
--
ian
Tom
>>>McCartney mentions a Stockhausen piece in MYFN. Beyond that I have no
>>>references. There were many modern composers active at the time. I have
yet
>>>to see any evidence that Lennon listened to this music and I have seen
none
>>>at all to suggest that he was influenced by it.
>>
>>I have seen it mentioned that he liked Stockhausen, even calling him to
tell
>>him of his admiration for a specific piece.
>
>McCartney or Lennon?
>
Lennon
>> It's
>>possible that John knew their music, since they played at the 14 hour
>>Technicolor Dream, which John attended, and they were friendly with Yoko
and
>>provided music for the opening of her exhibition. (Presumably the same one
>>that John saw, though not necessarily on the same day.)
>
>I've responded to this point in a separate post. It seems the Lennon
>attended on the 29th, probably well after the show had started on that
>day.
>
I missed that post, what did you say?
>
>>The radio in I Am The Walrus is as likely derived from them as it is from
>>Cage, since AMM had been incorporating found sounds from radios into their
>>performances as early as 1966.
>
>McCartney said that he informed Lennon about Berio using this
>technique. It reminds me of them travelling across Liverpool to see
>the guy who knew how to play a B7 chord.
>
Forgive a non-music major, but Berio?
Anyway, McCartney, at least, was familiar with AMM's use of this technique.
That's the thing about ideas, they could have come from anywhere. I don't
think there's anything that was coming from only one person at the time.
It seems somewhat roundabout to assume that an idea came from a distant
composer who they only knew from records, rather than contemporary musicians
who were part of their extended circle, but stranger things have happened.
paramucho
>No, that was just my impression on first hearing the piece, four
>months later.
It took me almost another thirty years. I wasn't an immediate fan...
>"Self-conscious" gets much closer. As if he were somewhat shocked at
>what he'd put out. I certainly identify with that!
Do you mean in general or in regard to pieces like "Revolution 9" in
particular?
>In my new book, I describe her as the "prophet of unlimited
>possibilities" in John's life.
I think you said once that without her around he would have spent all
his time watching telly. He was also described as the "laziest man in
Britain".
>Not warming up slowly, more like wading cautiously into a deep river,
>where'd they'd swum happily before; now none of them was quite sure
>what undercurrents awaited.
>
>To paraphrase the late Joseph Heller, something had happened.
It would be interesting to know *when* that something happened. I
suspect that Lennon got the wake-up call when he found that he
couldn't get an A-side or a B-side on what became the "Lady
Madonna"/"The Inner Light" signal. I could imagine that the Peppertime
brotherly love stopped at that point.
Lennon seems to have been reclusive in India. McCartney left early. I
just checked MYFN -- apart from minor help on "Mother Nature's Son"
and "Glass Onion", and the studio song "Birthday", the don't seem to
have written with each other at all. So, I guess, in the main, their
pro-active songwriting partnership stopped in India or before.
--
ian
JWB
> made. Some have said that the Anthology version was actually mixed
> about ten years at Martin's French recording studio for the original
> sessions release.
>
> Does anyone have information on this topic?
Here's the history of Mary Jane:
WHITE ALBUM SESSIONS Abbey Road
------------------------------------------------------------
8/14/68 - Recorded in 4 takes
Overdubs onto Take 4
Rough Mix (3:15)
9/26/68 - Mono Mix 1 (6:35)
Mono Mix 2 (6:35)
10/14/68 - Stereo Mix 1 (6:35)
Stereo Mix 2 (6:35)
* mixes made for White Album and never used *
* future mixes began afresh from #1 *
ACETATE MIXING SESSION Abbey Road
--------------------------------------------------------------
9/11/69 - Stereo Mix 1 (6:35)
Stereo Mix 2 (6:35)
Stereo Mix 3 (6:35)
* each has lead vocals and effects mixed differently *
* mixed at Lennon's request to re-aquaint himself with the song *
PLASTIC ONO BAND SESSIONS Abbey Road
---------------------------------------------------------------------
11/26/69 - Stereo Mix 4 (6:35)
Stereo Mix 5 - Mix 4 copied with a simultaneous overdub (6:35)
Stereo Mix 6 - an edit of Mix 5 (?:??)
Final edit - combination of mixes 4, 5, & 6 (3:12)
* The "final edit" was intended to be a POB single b/w
"You Know My Name (Look Up The Number)" *
SESSIONS SESSIONS Air Studios Monserrat
--------------------------------------------------------------------
early 80's - New stereo mix and edit from original 8/14/68 master (6:05)
Various lines of vocal and guitar were cut and pasted into the "avant-garde"
section to make it more accessible. An interesting echo effect is used to flesh
out the sound of the mix.
Mixed and edited (butchered) by Geoff Emerick. Finally released officially on
Anthology 3.
-------
JWB
Francie
> On 31 Dec 1999 16:31:18 GMT, Francie <fab...@best1.net> wrote:
>
> >No, that was just my impression on first hearing the piece, four
> >months later.
>
> It took me almost another thirty years. I wasn't an immediate fan...
Must admit I tended to skip the cut unless I'd had a couple hits on a spliff at
first. Wasn't enamored of the piece, but rather, challenged by it.
>
>
> >"Self-conscious" gets much closer. As if he were somewhat shocked at
> >what he'd put out. I certainly identify with that!
>
> Do you mean in general or in regard to pieces like "Revolution 9" in
> particular?
Pretty much in general. Less so on the farcical or 'mocking' songs (Me and My
Monkey, Sexy Sadie).
>
>
> >In my new book, I describe her as the "prophet of unlimited
> >possibilities" in John's life.
>
> I think you said once that without her around he would have spent all
> his time watching telly. He was also described as the "laziest man in
> Britain".
I've heard the latter -- but I don't believe I said the former. She certainly
got him off his bum while they were living with us! (Just by doing her own
stuff and getting new ideas *all the time*)
>
>
> >Not warming up slowly, more like wading cautiously into a deep river,
> >where'd they'd swum happily before; now none of them was quite sure
> >what undercurrents awaited.
> >
> >To paraphrase the late Joseph Heller, something had happened.
>
> It would be interesting to know *when* that something happened. I
> suspect that Lennon got the wake-up call when he found that he
> couldn't get an A-side or a B-side on what became the "Lady
> Madonna"/"The Inner Light" signal. I could imagine that the Peppertime
> brotherly love stopped at that point.
>
>
Good imaging. I can see John being put off by that decision.
> Lennon seems to have been reclusive in India. McCartney left early. I
> just checked MYFN -- apart from minor help on "Mother Nature's Son"
> and "Glass Onion", and the studio song "Birthday", the don't seem to
> have written with each other at all. So, I guess, in the main, their
> pro-active songwriting partnership stopped in India or before.
>
>
Quite likely. From my limited viewing of the video anthology I guessed
(retrospectively of course) their "competition" was decidedly less friendly
in Rishikesh.
francie
--
http://sites.netscape.net/fabest
"If art is to nourish the roots of our culture,
society must set the artist free to follow
his vision wherever it takes him."
- President John F. Kennedy,
Amherst College, October, 1963
paramucho
>paramucho wrote:
>
>> >"Self-conscious" gets much closer. As if he were somewhat shocked at
>> >what he'd put out. I certainly identify with that!
>>
>> Do you mean in general or in regard to pieces like "Revolution 9" in
>> particular?
>
>Pretty much in general. Less so on the farcical or 'mocking' songs (Me and My
>Monkey, Sexy Sadie).
I'm not sure I understand fully what you mean. Do you mean that he was
surprised how a song such as "Revolution" or "Yer Blues" as a finished
product came across? In what sense?
>> >In my new book, I describe her as the "prophet of unlimited
>> >possibilities" in John's life.
>>
>> I think you said once that without her around he would have spent all
>> his time watching telly. He was also described as the "laziest man in
>> Britain".
>
>I've heard the latter -- but I don't believe I said the former. She certainly
>got him off his bum while they were living with us! (Just by doing her own
>stuff and getting new ideas *all the time*)
One of the (very few) complaints that I think Lennon voiced with regard to
his first marriage was that his then spouse was not involved in some key parts
of his life. It was a passive relationship. The Lennon-Ono partnership was,
as you point, the 180% opposite. So, what I hear you saying was that he found
a need to keep up with her productivity. That really does make more sense of
his statement that Ono "inspired" *him* rather than the songs.
--
ian
Francie
> Francie
>
> >paramucho wrote:
> >
> >> >"Self-conscious" gets much closer. As if he were somewhat shocked at
> >> >what he'd put out. I certainly identify with that!
> >>
> >> Do you mean in general or in regard to pieces like "Revolution 9" in
> >> particular?
> >
> >Pretty much in general. Less so on the farcical or 'mocking' songs (Me and My
> >Monkey, Sexy Sadie).
>
> I'm not sure I understand fully what you mean. Do you mean that he was
> surprised how a song such as "Revolution" or "Yer Blues" as a finished
> product came across? In what sense?
No surprise about how the finished product comes across.
It's more about the unconscious aspect of writing the song, the
way a piece of writing comes out of the writer, almost as if the artist
has no "choice", or no conscious intent when the pen goes to the paper --
or in John's case, when the tune comes from a relaxed sort of
"noodling" on the piano or the guitar. Sometimes he appeared to
be a bit self-conscious when he would bring a created song into
the group because he had no "rational" explanation for it.
Hope I haven't muddied the waters here. It's hard to explain
when it happens to me... so it's even tougher to write a linear
explanation of what I sensed often happened to John. There was
so very little verbalizing during the making of the loops --
I "got it".
>
>
> >> >In my new book, I describe her as the "prophet of unlimited
> >> >possibilities" in John's life.
> >>
> >> I think you said once that without her around he would have spent all
> >> his time watching telly. He was also described as the "laziest man in
> >> Britain".
> >
> >I've heard the latter -- but I don't believe I said the former. She certainly
> >got him off his bum while they were living with us! (Just by doing her own
> >stuff and getting new ideas *all the time*)
>
> One of the (very few) complaints that I think Lennon voiced with regard to
> his first marriage was that his then spouse was not involved in some key parts
> of his life. It was a passive relationship. The Lennon-Ono partnership was,
> as you point, the 180% opposite. So, what I hear you saying was that he found
> a need to keep up with her productivity. That really does make more sense of
> his statement that Ono "inspired" *him* rather than the songs.
Well, the first time was not a marriage of equals in the contemporary sense,
and could never have become such even if he'd tried to stay with it.
With Ono, indeed, her experimental and discursive creative mind just blew his.
And in many ways, vice versa. She became even more expansive in her own work
as well.... which was "hard" (a word she has used very frequently in her lyrics)
because of the Beatle (universal as opposed to personal) thing.
francie
--
http://sites.netscape.net/fabest
"If art is to nourish the roots of our culture,
society must set the artist free to follow
his vision wherever it takes him."
- President John F. Kennedy,
Amherst College, October, 1963
Mister Charlie
fab...@best1.net wrote:
> paramucho wrote:
>
> > On 31 Dec 1999 16:31:18 GMT, Francie <fab...@best1.net> wrote:
> >
> > >No, that was just my impression on first hearing the piece, four
> > >months later.
> >
> > It took me almost another thirty years. I wasn't an immediate fan...
>
> Must admit I tended to skip the cut unless I'd had a couple hits on a
spliff at
> first. Wasn't enamored of the piece, but rather, challenged by it.
>
> >
> >
changed! For the better! Francie! Can I come over? I'll bring a six-
pack and some wine! You provide the spliff?
LOL
No wonder all you people like Revolution #9. I think it would take
something a bit stronger, possibly acid, for me to enjoy it. But then
that's just me.
--
--------------------------------------------
"...I've had a spliff or two and I don't care...
I smoked and choked and then I grew my hair...
There's really nothing wrong,
I wrote me first stoned song,
So shut that door, I ain't goin' anywhere..."
(with apologies to humanity)
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