Timba as the new "flava" of Pop Salsa
kaysee
Sergeorge influence made me think a bit about some of the other "pop" groups
that have had "hits" in the last year or so.
It seems to me that they all have this heavy leaning towards the inclusion
of the kind of funk/rap/reggae elements that groups like Charanga Habanera
and Manolin introduced in the mid 90s. Son by Four is a quickly coming to
mind example. Even Celia's latest has the elements I am thinking about.
Am I hearing things? Is this a valid statement?
kaysee
Nina
digital thing on tv, it was so timba-fied that I had to go see who it was, I
was thinking a Timba group, but it was a regular old "salsa" group. I have
been noticing a LOT of this,I suppose its a case of the mountain coming to
Mohamed, if we wont go to the timba, they will bring it to us.
--
Only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. One is to let her
think she is having her own way, and the other is to let her have it.
-- Lyndon B. Johnson
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can make it in the US. Even besides "timba groups", there are other salsa
groups that are adopting some timba-ish elements. And yes, I even hear a
little of it in Celia's new album.
A major salsa group here in LA, Son Mayor, now do several songs that have a
timba flavor. (Not true a few years ago.)
I think it's been mentioned before that the San Francisco group "Ritmo y
Armonia", which used to be a pure traditional charanga group, as of the last
time I heard them a couple years ago, had a lot of timba influence in what
they were playing.
Timba is having an effect in the US.
"Nina" <esa...@adelphia.not> wrote in message
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DeRayMi
Kaysee, some of this would have happened without timba. The inclusion
of rap and reggae elements is sort of obvious and inevitable. Is the
rap in Colombian salsa coming by way of timba, or by way or rap
itself?
tang...@yahoo.com
news:ush8nql...@corp.supernews.com:
> Yes, I think it's true. It goes back to Kevin's question of whether
> timba can make it in the US. Even besides "timba groups", there are
> other salsa groups that are adopting some timba-ish elements. And yes,
> I even hear a little of it in Celia's new album.
>
> A major salsa group here in LA, Son Mayor, now do several songs that
> have a timba flavor. (Not true a few years ago.)
>
> I think it's been mentioned before that the San Francisco group "Ritmo
> y Armonia", which used to be a pure traditional charanga group, as of
> the last time I heard them a couple years ago, had a lot of timba
> influence in what they were playing.
>
> Timba is having an effect in the US.
I don't think anyone has ever denied that.
Tipica 73 took elements of "nueva onda", Batacumbele took songo and put out
their own spin on it, by adding PR jibaro elements on their 1st cd.
For some time you heard some of these salseros shout "Y dale mambo" a la
Mayito.
That some elements of timba would be incorporated was not in question (at
least not in my mind.)
I believe andysx(?) posted a while back that there's a NJ timba band.
Also, it has not been one-way. Elements of NY style salsa have been
incorporated into some so-called timba/songo tunes.
Listen to "Deja La Ira" by LVV. It is listed as 'songo'. This tune IMO is
salsa with NY sensibilities.
As far as Kaysee's post--I'm no historian but I don't think it was Charanga
Habanera or Manolin who introduced rap into latin music (salsa).
This was most likely introduced by bands in the states, and the Cubans
adopted it.
I could be wrong, but I think I have some vague memories of Tito Allen (and
he's no spring chick) incorporating a little rap into a tune.
Maybe Kaysee is referring to a particular rap style that CH and Manolin do
which has been incorporated by some groups here.
It's not clear to me what she meant by that statement.
So yes, some stateside music might sound more timba-ish, but that should
surprise no one.
tangent90
C. L.
> of rap and reggae elements is sort of obvious and inevitable. Is the
> rap in Colombian salsa coming by way of timba, or by way or rap
> itself?
It depends how it's done. There are an infinite number of ways to fuse rap
and salsa. I haven't heard what Kaysee's referring to, but I'm sure it
COULD be via timba and not just straight out of hip hop.
Look at jazz fusion for example. Fusing rock and roll (or funk, or soul, or
whatever you'd like to call it) with jazz wasn't all that novel of an idea.
Whether it was Miles Davis, Tony Williams, or Jimi Hendrix who did it
"first" who really cares. My point is that you could listen to Bitches Brew
and say it's the best thing that ever happened to music. Then you could
listen to Kenny G. Both are fusing rock/pop with jazz, but they're
obviously coming from different places.
kaysee
much as "introduced into THEIR music". In other words, they made the rap
style lyrics a part of the "genre" (if you will) rather than an occasional
addition as an accent. I don't think I would be wrong to suggest that timba
soneros rely on the "rapping" style of improvisation as much as they do on
the more traditional improvisational forms.
The difference IMO between what say, DLG was doing and what, say CH was
doing, lies in the SINGING. US groups were rappers who added music. The
Cuban groups were singers who added rap. [I need to go back to my DLG stuff
to see if this hypothesis actually bears out, or if it just a false
impression.]
So your last comment about a particular style of rapping that seems to be
more often incorporated in non-Cuban salsa actually seems to be borne out.
People are inserting timba, not rap. (Is this a false division?)
kaysee
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kaysee
the 80s, which certainly incorporated soca/merengue type elements into the
more tratitional Cuban/PR/Colombian sound Arroyo produced.
However, given the context, I'd think the Colombian salsa is more likely to
be influenced by what they see from the Dominican Republic and Cuba. I
haven't heard a lot of the newest Colombian sounds, so I can't say the
alternate scenario is not true.
What have you heard that reflects the rap/reggae influence in Colombian
music?
kaysee
"DeRayMi" <DeR...@fairuz.zzn.com> wrote in message
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Nina
--
Only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. One is to let her
think she is having her own way, and the other is to let her have it.
-- Lyndon B. Johnson
"DeRayMi" <DeR...@fairuz.zzn.com> wrote in message
news:d3663af7.0211...@posting.google.com...
Its different,there is a different feel in Timba-esque US salsa w/hiphop
reggae elements and
"reggaeton" which is usually hardcore raunch reggae in spanish,
Hip Hop merengue which tends to be kinda hardcore and foul,
techno/house merengue which has reggae/house and techno influences but is
more party oriented and not as "street".
DeRayMi
> I'd say yes, that is true. I am thinking about "joeson" in the Colombia of
> the 80s, which certainly incorporated soca/merengue type elements into the
> more tratitional Cuban/PR/Colombian sound Arroyo produced.
>
> However, given the context, I'd think the Colombian salsa is more likely to
> be influenced by what they see from the Dominican Republic and Cuba. I
> haven't heard a lot of the newest Colombian sounds, so I can't say the
> alternate scenario is not true.
>
> What have you heard that reflects the rap/reggae influence in Colombian
> music?
>
> kaysee
<<edit>>
There are some tracks on the Fuentes Salsa All Stars "Hard Salsa Dura"
compilation (which I don't particularly recommend, incidentally) from
a couple years back that include some of what I would consider to be
rapping. Also, Grupo Niche, for instance, on "A Golpe De Folklore"
includes tracks which seem to borrow from dance hall style toasting
(is it called that still in dance hall?) and maybe from rap. I don't
have specific song titles handy. I'm sure you know the Grupo Niche
examples.
kaysee
element introduced. It seemed more like the US style than the timba. But
that is one example. I still haven't thought of anything from the last 2 -
3 years that helps to clarify.
kaysee
"DeRayMi" <DeR...@fairuz.zzn.com> wrote in message
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pablo
> Something Nina sent me - a clip from grupo gale, I think - had this rap
> element introduced.
There's Los Titanes "Subeme el voltaje", which happens to be one of the most
manic salsa dance tracks ever, in my humble opinion. I am usually not a big
fan of rap in salsa, but in this case the mix is explosive. And the rap is
Spanglish and fast-paced, quite obviously hip-hop inspired.
Mere talking in a salsa song has been around forever - the short
introductory "ay amor - si supieras cuanto te he sonyado" or so with a few
slow intro chords in the back, and then things really get started. That to
me isn't a rap element.
...pablo