Full Disclosure (longish)
Reed Kennedy
helpful in this process, I decided to post a bit detailing the process, and
a big thank you.
A Newbie's First Shot at Motorcycling
Part 1
'Reasearch'
I moved to CA from upstate NY in June, and decided I'd rather have a
motorcycle than a car when I found out it didn't snow here. I've wanted one
for some time, but they make more sense here than in NY where you can't ride
them a good portion of the year. I went out to the local bookstores and
purchased every motorcycle magazine I could find, and "The Complete Idiots
Guide to Motorcycling" (which I heartilly recomend to newbies). After I
finished reading these, I went to the library and looked through about two
years of back issues of Motorcycle Magazine and Cycle World. I also read
almost everything on www.motorcycle.com, as well as many of the R.M.R
reviews, and started reading rec.moto and ba.moto (as I live in Berkeley).
I signed up for the MSF course (which I'm taking in December), and found a
local biker to give me lessons on his 200cc Honda. I originally started
looking at Ducati Monstors and the BMW R1200C, but after being underwhelmed
by the salesman at Munroe and deciding agains the Beemer based on price, I
started looking at used bikes. I decided a GS500E or Seca II would work
well, but wasn't able to find one I wanted. At this point I started looking
at new "starter" bikes.
My favorite amoung these was the Buell Blast, but when I took it for a test
ride (Buell is great about test rides) I found that I didn't fit very well.
I'm 6'4, and the Blast just felt too small to be comfortable for longer
trips. I ended up looking at the Buell M2 Cyclone, the next bike in their
line. I posted to the group asking about the viability of this bike for
beginers, and got answers in both directions, although I must say the
consesus seemed to be that I should start with something small and cheap. I
read every review I could find on the M2. Eventually I decided that while
starting small seemed like sound advice, the Buell seemed like everything I
wanted in a motorcycle (comfortable for 2 up, not too bike, fast but not too
fast, naked, comfortable for long trips), and I decided to go for it. Scott
and Angel at Dudley Perkins Harley Davidson Buell were wonderful, and I
heartilly recomend their shop.
Getting the Bike:
I'm 20 and don't have much credit, so I needed to have a co-sign for the
loan. All of my familly is still on the east coast, so we had to Fedex
bunchs of papers back and forth so that my father could co-sign for me.
Angel was great about this whole process, very patcient, and even extended
the rebate for me. I ended up getting my M2 for $6500 plus nuisance
charges, tax, etc... Decided to get a set of Vanson two peice leathers, an
alarm, a tach kit, and a set of locks for the bike. I bought the locks and
alarm for the bike because don't have a garage and have to park it outside
in South Berkeley, which is not the best neigborhood. I really wasn't sure
about the leathers, and I still feel quite pretentious and poseresque in new
Vanson Leathers on my first bike, but in the end I decided that I should
have good protection while I was learning, as this seems to be the time I'm
most likely to go down. I also thought that not buying protective gear like
the Vansons because of what people might think of me would be just about as
stupid as buying then in the hopes that people would think I was cool. I
was able to finance the leathers along with the bike, which also helped.
Takeing Delivery:
After weeks of shipping papers across the country, I got the bike Yesterday.
After over a month of waiting I finally got the bike... while I was dog
sick. I picked the bike up at the dealer, and went to work, simply because
I didn't want to call up and say "Oh, I just got my new motorcycle. And oh
yeah, I'm sick ::coughcough::. As soon as I got there they told me to go
home. I did, and spent the rest of the day in bed. I have to say, I'd been
tempted to call in sick the day I got my bike, but I haden't planned to
actually spend it in _bed_.
The Next Day (today):
I woke up before my alarm went off, I was so excited to ride. I was still a
bit sick, but not enough to stop me from trying out my new bike. I got
ready, put on my gear, and took off. I got on 80W to go into SF, and
enjoyed useing the carpool bypass to avoid the toll. I went over the Bay
Bridge, and was careful not to take the bike over 50 mph, as it only had
about 17 miles on it, and was still very much breaking in. I actually
managed to find a parking spot, got off, had coffee with a friend, and then
took the bike back out. I got about 30 yards before the bike cut out. It
took me about 5 minutes sitting at the side of the road before I remembered
to turn the fuel petcock (sp?) back on. I decided that I would ride down to
Scuderia West to pick up some no-fog stuff for my visor, and then find some
less crowded roads to practice on. I took Montgomery down to Market, and
was on my way. This is when I started having problems.
Oops:
I ended up in the left lane of Market, where the Muni rails are. I decided
I didn't want to be here, so I signaled and started checking to my sides to
try and change lanes. Unfortuantly, while I was checking for a spot to slip
into, my front tire sliped into one of the Muni rail grooves. I had no idea
how to handle this, and it seriously threw my bike off. At this point I had
some sort of problem with the throttle. I'd love to belive that it got
stuck somehow, but in reality I think that having my front tire caught
caused me to grab the bars too tight, and the fact that the bars were
wobbling caused me to open the throttle too far. I was either unable to
close the throttle, or unable to think fast enough to properly access the
situation, probably the later. I ended up unstable, with the throttle much
to far open. I went into the side of a Muni bus, which bent my rear brake
lever into the bike, and bent my front break lever into the throttle grip,
possible helping it stay opened. The bike went down, and I slid with it for
a bit, untill I noticed it was going under an _second_ Muni bus ahead of me,
when I let go.
This all happened very quickly, of course, and at only around 20 miles per
hour, thank goodness. I'm not sure how accurate this is, but it's the best
I could figure it out. I ended up in the middle of Market street, my bike
had slid a bit under the bus, but those are so high off the ground that the
bike never actually touched this bus. I walked over to the bike, killed the
engine (first smart thing I'd done so far) and yanked it up off the ground
with one hand, something I'd never be able to do without the adreniline in
my body at the time. I had three Muni buses around me, and a great many
Muni personel.
Things I've Learned From This Fuckup:
I should _Not_ have:
Been riding in SF (I don't have nearly enough experiance yet).
Been riding in the left lane on Market, especially without knowing how to
deal with the Muni Rails.
Grabbed the bars hard when I got scared.
I _Should_ have:
Pulled in the clutch when I noticed any problem with the throttle.
Used Howard or some less crowded road rather than Market.
Used the rear brake (I don't know if I did or not).
Been more aware of the placement of the rails.
Practiced more on less crowded roads.
Things I did right:
I wasn't going very fast
I was wearing a Shoei helmet, the Vanson jacket and a pair of Carbon-Kevlar
reinforced Buell race gloves. The jacket and gloves I'd almost decided
against as poserish overkill saved me a great deal of injury.
I remembered to kill the engine when I got back to the bike (hey, it's
something).
Uh, I managed not to ram the Muni bus head on. I guess that's a good thing.
Dammage report.
Me:
Small scuff on the jacket.
Rip on the front right pocket on my Draggin' Jeans
I've got a sore hip under the ripped pocket. This is the last time I'm
leaving my keys in my pocket while riding.
I have a sore rib. It's probably just a bruise, but if it keeps hurting
I'll probably go to the hospital this weekend. I really doubt it's broken.
Anyone know how to tell?
Bike:
I cracked the big ugly Buell Airbox right open.
I bent the front and rear break levers.
I scratched the exhaust header pipes a tiny bit, but they should be ok.
Chipped the tank paint.
Poped the front tank mount out.
Broke the shift leaver off.
Broke the right rear turn signal off.
Left controls and mirror bent down.
Right controls and mirror bent up.
Left passenger footpeg broken off.
Various scratches, etc...
On further inspection: Buell says that having the front tank mount pop out
often indicates a compressed frame. This could be very expensive. If I'm
lucky, it was the tank that compressed, and I only need a new tank.
Otherwise, I'll need a new frame ($1000 plus $2000 labor). Plus all the
other stuff.
Basically, the bus took out the right side, and the ground took out the
left.
I have insurance, of course, but being 20 and male is bad enough, without
having a totaled bike on my insurance.
Basically, I'm very lucky in that I'm pretty definately ok, I didn't get hit
by any of the buses or cars on Market, and my saftey gear has all paid for
itself. I'm definatly thankful for that.
On the other hand, I'd had the bike for about 20 hours, and had put 19 miles
on it. I won't have it back for a couple weeks, minimum, after waiting
weeks to get it.
Sum total, I guess I got off fairly light, and it was a pretty good first
accident. It's given me some very solid respect for the machine and the
potential dangers of motorcycling that were only ideas before. I decided I
wanted to be safe about biking from the begining, but it's the difference
between knowing a stove is hot and having been burned.
Any comments are welcome. If you find a way that I've screwed up that I
didn't notice, please don't spare my feelings and tell me. The only way I
can be constructive about this is to treat it as a learning experiance. And
it's an expensive one, so I'd like to learn as much as possible. Any other
advice on getting my bike back on the road or anything else would be great.
On a positive note, of all the stuff I broke in the accident, the PalmPilot
in my left jean pocket came out unscathed. Even if I'm a fairly lousy
motorcyclist, I can still be a competent geek.
Also, thank you all for your help. Rec.moto and ba.moto helped me find a
bike, choose a helmet, choose leathers, and all sorts of other invaluable
information (as well as something to do when I'm bored at work) Thanks to
all of you.
Reed Kennedy
'00 Buell M2 Cyclone, 23 miles, in the shop.
Un-paid advertisements:
People who helped me through this process:
Motorcycle Online, rec.moto, ba.moto, Angel and Scott of Dudley Perkins
Buell of SF, CA, Vanson, Shoei, Draggin' Jeans.
Some Guy on a Bike
<Cor...@NOEVILSHEEPmail.com> wrote:
<snip story of buying and crashing new bike>
The only big thing you forgot to do was take the MSF course before
you started riding a bike the size and power of the Buell. But
you're not the first, and you won't be the last.
You did good with your protective gear. It saved you from some
really serious consequences.
And you learned some serious lessons. Ones I think will stick.
Get theeself to an MSF course pronto. Replace any damaged gear.
And thank your stars you made it out in one piece.
--
=====================================================================
Adam Wade "The only way I'll stop riding
CWRA #4 SDWL #2 is if I stop breathing."
CIMC #1 DoD #2009 LOMP #2 1990 Zephyr 550 (Daphne)
The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not represent
those of my employer in any form.
=====================================================================
Ricardo Cabra
It's never happened to me, but I've been told that a broken rib is extremely
painful.
Ricardo
-Looking for a used GS500 or Hawk NT650
-Trying to upgrade from my Honda Scooter CH80 '97
Nicholas Weaver
Reed Kennedy <Cor...@NOEVILSHEEPmail.com> wrote:
>the rebate for me. I ended up getting my M2 for $6500 plus nuisance
>charges, tax, etc...
You know, now I start to understand why people buy Buells: They are
low cost, high displacement bikes. The displacement should really
help on freeway riding and the like. And they do look real cool to
boot.
>alarm, a tach kit, and a set of locks for the bike. I bought the locks and
>alarm for the bike because don't have a garage and have to park it outside
>in South Berkeley, which is not the best neigborhood.
One other thing to get, when you get the bike back: a nice cover for
it, to keep it protected from the rain and elements.
>Things I've Learned From This Fuckup:
>I should _Not_ have:
>Grabbed the bars hard when I got scared.
This I think is one of the BIGGEST reasons for recommending lower
displacement bikes for first time riders. The Buell is a big engine.
At a given RPM range, it is going to produce a lot more power. True,
it has a very low limit (thus, the rather low HP figure for the size),
but at 3k RPM, it should be producing about the power that a 600 would
produce at 6-7k RPM. Thus, a tweak of the throttle will have a
significantly larger effect, when at low RPM.
It wouldn't suprise me if that is what contributed to things, since
you don't mention grabbing the brakes.
>Practiced more on less crowded roads.
There are some GREAT roads in the east bay for that. Some have
traffic during rush hour (Claremont to fish ranch road), some are
pretty empty all the time (Centennial to wildcat canyon, through
tilden park, then down bear creek road to pinole valley road).
Once you get your bike back into shape, I'll have to give you the
fellow newby tour.
>I was wearing a Shoei helmet, the Vanson jacket and a pair of Carbon-Kevlar
>reinforced Buell race gloves. The jacket and gloves I'd almost decided
>against as poserish overkill saved me a great deal of injury.
Agreed. I've seen a new rider ahead of me (18 miles total on a suzuki
650 DP bike) slide out on a 15 MPH turn, he was probably going slower
when he hit. No real damage (just scratches), but his jeans got
ripped.
>I've got a sore hip under the ripped pocket. This is the last time I'm
>leaving my keys in my pocket while riding.
What I do is have a smaller keychain for when riding, just my
housekeys and the bike key, nothing else.
>Bike: {OWCH}
You have my sympathy. And don't worry about it. I've dropped my Kawa
once, and had it knocked over once. As long as it is an "Oh well".
And also, at least you have insurance. You are going to get soaked a
bit over the next few years, but you should still come out ahead of
the game.
>Basically, I'm very lucky in that I'm pretty definately ok, I didn't get hit
>by any of the buses or cars on Market, and my saftey gear has all paid for
>itself. I'm definatly thankful for that.
If there are ANY scratches or scuffs on the helmet, replace it.
>On the other hand, I'd had the bike for about 20 hours, and had put 19 miles
>on it. I won't have it back for a couple weeks, minimum, after waiting
>weeks to get it.
Once you get it back, drop me a line. I can show you some wonderful
roads back in the hills, low traffic and very good for practicing your
skills. Just as long as you promise not to blow past me on the
straights. :)
--
Nicholas C. Weaver nwe...@cs.berkeley.edu
Nicholas Weaver
Some Guy on a Bike <som...@somewhere.u.cant.reach> wrote:
>The only big thing you forgot to do was take the MSF course before
>you started riding a bike the size and power of the Buell. But
>you're not the first, and you won't be the last.
I believe he does. He is under 21, you need a liscence not a
permit to ride on the freeway (like the bay bridge), and MSF
is required for those under 21 to get their liscence. But I'm
not positive.
Some Guy on a Bike
Weaver) wrote:
>> The only big thing you forgot to do was take the MSF course before
>> you started riding a bike the size and power of the Buell. But
>> you're not the first, and you won't be the last.
> I believe he does. He is under 21, you need a liscence not a
> permit to ride on the freeway (like the bay bridge), and MSF
> is required for those under 21 to get their liscence. But I'm
> not positive.
Aha. Something specific to Cali I didn't know. It's not like that
most places I've lived. And he didn't mention MSF, that I recall.
I would have thought that he would at least have gotten classroom
instruction on railroad tracks in the MSF course?
Holly Ober
: I finally got my bike, and since everyone on rec.moto and ba.moto was so
: helpful in this process, I decided to post a bit detailing the process, and
: a big thank you.
[snip long story with unhappy ending]
What a heartbreaking story. I've been reading your posts, and wondering
how it would all work out for you. Hang in there. Think how funny the
story will be, telling it 20 years from now. I hope your injuries get
better soon. :)
Holly
Nicholas Weaver
Some Guy on a Bike <som...@somewhere.u.cant.reach> wrote:
Yeup, CA requires MSF for those under 21 to get a liscence, but they
also subsidize for those under 21 (from a $3 charge on registering a
motorcycle.)
> It's not like that most places I've lived. And he didn't mention
> MSF, that I recall. I would have thought that he would at least
> have gotten classroom instruction on railroad tracks in the MSF
> course?
Market Street in SF has railroad tracks running PARALLEL with traffic,
for streetcars which run on the streets in the traffic lanes. This is
what he hit. It is a rather funky obstical, which I have had the good
fortune of NOT actually riding on. The only rididng I've done in SF
has been on other streets, not Market.
Crossing Railroad tracks was mentioned when I took the MSF course, but
not what to do when the tracks are in, and parallel to, a traffic
lane, at least not that I recall.
Some Guy on a Bike
Weaver) wrote:
> Crossing Railroad tracks was mentioned when I took the MSF course, but
> not what to do when the tracks are in, and parallel to, a traffic
> lane, at least not that I recall.
I would think that would be covered by the general rule for crossing
tracks; slow, get the bike as perpendicular to the tracks as
possible, cross the tracks with no steering, brake or throttle
inputs, and then return to your regularly-scheduled path. Just a
bit trickier when they're nearly parallel to you.
Mark S. Jennings
prior to riding. You also bought too much bike (and a Buell to boot, which
are relatively difficult to ride bikes), but that is fairly common and most
folks get away with it.
Complete the MSF course before you ride again.
- Mark
Ben Cantrick
Whew, man! Well, good and bad in this. The bad, of course, is that
you rode before you had taken the MSF course, and that your bike got
totaled and you hurt and could have been killed.
The good is that you were smart and wore your leathers, you were
alert enough not to go under the bus, and you don't seem to be
turned against motorcycles as a result.
All in all, despite the bad luck, I think you did pretty well. I
especially like how you did your homework and really approached the
whole buying process very intelligently. It's a pity you didn't wait
to ride your bike until after you'd taken the MSF course, but now you
know and I'm pretty sure you won't do it again. <G>
Seems like you generally have good instincts for motorcycle
riding, you just got excited about your new bike and took it onto
really dangerous high-traffic Cali roads before you were ready.
It really, really sucks hard about the bike though. I suspect accidents
like this are why people recommend to always start with a used bike...
Anyway, hopefully that which did not kill you has made you stronger. ;]
-Ben
--
Ben Cantrick (mac...@dim.com) | Yes, the BGC dubs still suck.
BGC Nukem: http://www.dim.com/~mackys/bgcnukem.html
The Spamdogs: http://www.dim.com/~mackys/spamdogs
"So that's 2 T-1s and a newsfeed....would you like clues with that?" -Hillary
Reed Kennedy
I am signed up to take the MSF course (from the original post: "I signed up
for the MSF course (which I'm taking in December)"). The problem is that
the course is back logged for between 2 and 4 months in CA's Bay Area. I
signed up for it as soon as I decided I was going to start riding, and
called 6 different courses. All were back-logged untill December or
January. I seriously concidered waiting untill I'd taken the course to buy
the bike, but a combination of factors convinced me not too. First, one of
my good friends from college is flying out in late December, and I'd wanted
to make sure I had enough experiance to ride two up by the time she got
here. Second, Buell was offering over $2,000 off the price of the left-over
Y2K bikes. I'm not saying that these seem like good reasons now, but they
did at the time. Now, of course, it'll cost more than that to fix the bike,
and I won't have much ride time in as it'll take a couple weeks to get it
going again.
> I would think that would be covered by the general rule for crossing
> tracks; slow, get the bike as perpendicular to the tracks as
> possible, cross the tracks with no steering, brake or throttle
> inputs, and then return to your regularly-scheduled path. Just a
> bit trickier when they're nearly parallel to you.
The major problem was more that I drifted over to the tracks when I was
looking for a space to change lanes. I haden't even been planning on
crossing them at the time, and I think I was even looking over my shoulder.
Those things are bastards, I've gotten my bicycle caught in them before, and
they're absolute hell. That's not a good excuse, though, and I still take
full responsibility. Riding around them on a bike should have just given me
another reason to avoid them (which, ironically, is what I was trying to do
when I got into the accident.) I just wasn't thinking far enough ahead, and
paid for it.
But I walked away, and the bike's insured. It could have been much, much
worse.
Reed.
Jim Stinnett
> I finally got my bike
snip
> I ended up in the left lane of Market, where the Muni rails are.
>I had no idea
> how to handle this, and it seriously threw my bike off. At this point I
had
snip
Dude! You are totally lucky to not be hospitalized or just muni-squished.
Well, you learned the hard way about how important skills and experience are
in the real world. I am glad to hear that it wasn't a lot worse.
Anyway you know what to do now.
--
jim stinnett
VTR#0631
RC31#1934
Motorcycle Information @ http://www.moto-rama.com
Last update: November 17, 2000
il motivo conduce a anarchia!
Nikita Synytskyy
Reed Kennedy wrote:
>
Well, glad to hear you're OK! It is a bitch that the bike is damaged, but
that is replaceable.
>
> Any comments are welcome. If you find a way that I've screwed up that I
> didn't notice, please don't spare my feelings and tell me.
Well, first on what you did right - you bought the best gear you could
afford. And it saved you. It has already paid for itself, and may pay for
itself many times over - Vanson leathers are as sturdy as they make 'em. I
wish I could afford a set :) The motorcycling safety gear is worth every
cent you pay for it and more - as you have found out.
Your main mistake, in my opinion, is starting to ride on "real" streets (as
opposed to say an empty parking lot) before taking the MSF course. I've
started riding just this Summer, and was in the position you were in - have
leathers, have license, the bike is a phone call away... waiting for MSF
course (it's actually called OCSC here in Ottawa, but the idea is the
same). I'm glad I waited until after the course to start riding.
I've had my share of close calls already (almost all of them caused by my
bad judgment) but I had a lot less trouble controlling the bike than I
would have had if I started riding without taking the course. Let's face
it - you crashed because you lost control; while I can't say "it would not
have happened" it would certainly have been less likely had you taken the
MSF course.
The second mistake - more from the financial than from the safety side - is
getting a new bike. I don't know the power characteristics of your bike,
but that's not the main issue. There are people out there who can get a
100 HP motorcycle as their first bike and have the self restraint not to
use it until they are ready. Maybe you are such a person - I don't know
you so I can't really tell.
The problem with new bikes is that not only they are expensive to buy, they
are expensive to fix. Even if you don't crash it (which you already did)
there is a good chance that you'll drop it, doing some damage. It will be
a lot cheaper to fix it on a 13 year old bike than on a brand new one. My
bike is 17 years old, and what I paid for it when "new" is probably less
than what you'll have to pay to fix yours. That's just to make you feel
bad :)
> The only way I
> can be constructive about this is to treat it as a learning experiance. And
> it's an expensive one, so I'd like to learn as much as possible.
It's great that you try to learn from your mistakes. Don't let this scare
you off - pick yourself up, understand what you did wrong and get back on
the road.
Nikita.
--
'83 Kawasaki 440 LTD - Evil Lucas.
CotDRSig # (83.3+sqrt(-23+3i))/0xFFF
Reed Kennedy
> low cost, high displacement bikes. The displacement should really
> help on freeway riding and the like. And they do look real cool to
> boot.
I was actually pretty afraid of the displacement of the Buell (rightly so,
apparently). I would have been perfectly happy with a 600cc-750cc bike, but
I couldn't find anything which seemed as versitile for two up and touring,
but still relatively small and light and fun. I actually almost bought the
500cc Buell. I was quite happy with it's 33hp, I just didn't fit on the
durn thing...
> One other thing to get, when you get the bike back: a nice cover for
> it, to keep it protected from the rain and elements.
Oops. Forgot to mention that. I already got one, specially fitted for the
bike by Buell. Yet the bike still got wet in the dew this morning. How
odd...
> >Things I've Learned From This Fuckup:
> >I should _Not_ have:
> >Grabbed the bars hard when I got scared.
>
> This I think is one of the BIGGEST reasons for recommending lower
> displacement bikes for first time riders. The Buell is a big engine.
> At a given RPM range, it is going to produce a lot more power. True,
> it has a very low limit (thus, the rather low HP figure for the size),
> but at 3k RPM, it should be producing about the power that a 600 would
> produce at 6-7k RPM. Thus, a tweak of the throttle will have a
> significantly larger effect, when at low RPM.
I never would have bought a Japenese bike with a 1200cc engine. I was
actually attracted to the fact that Buells had less HP than forgin
big-bikes. I couldn't think of any situation where the torque would get me.
I can think of one now... I probably only had the throttle open a few
degrees more than I wanted, but it was enough to freak me out and stop me
from thinking clearly. I've been driving standard cars for 4 years... I
should know enough to pull in the clutch. But it didn't even occur to me
untill about half an hour later.
One mistake I forgot to add to my list. I'm still a little bit sick, and
shouldn't have been riding at all. I wanted to show my co-workers the bike,
and, well, it seemed like a good idea at the time.
> >Practiced more on less crowded roads.
>
> There are some GREAT roads in the east bay for that. Some have
> traffic during rush hour (Claremont to fish ranch road), some are
> pretty empty all the time (Centennial to wildcat canyon, through
> tilden park, then down bear creek road to pinole valley road).
>
> Once you get your bike back into shape, I'll have to give you the
> fellow newby tour.
Nick had actually invited me via email, and I'd been hoping to go on the
Berkeley tour this weekend, but I guess I'll have to take a rain check...
> >Bike: {OWCH}
>
> You have my sympathy. And don't worry about it. I've dropped my Kawa
> once, and had it knocked over once. As long as it is an "Oh well".
> And also, at least you have insurance. You are going to get soaked a
> bit over the next few years, but you should still come out ahead of
> the game.
Everyone keep your fingers crossed for me... If the frame isn't bent, it
shouldn't be that bad, and I won't have to put it on my insurance...
> If there are ANY scratches or scuffs on the helmet, replace it.
There is one white scuff on the right side of the visor of the helmet from
where it rubbed against the Muni bus. I don't think it ever hit the ground.
No marks on the helmet itself. Does it need replacing? Where can I get a
deal on a RF-800?
> Once you get it back, drop me a line. I can show you some wonderful
> roads back in the hills, low traffic and very good for practicing your
> skills. Just as long as you promise not to blow past me on the
> straights. :)
You got it. I can't wait. Sounds like exactly the type of riding I should
have been doing in the first place. And don't worry. Now that I've got the
fear of god in me, I don't think I'll be going anywhere very fast.
Thanks,
Reed
'00 Buell Cyclone, 23 miles, in the shop.
Reed Kennedy
Holly Ober <ez05...@sandman.ucdavis.edu> wrote in message
news:8v4fe1$g7k$1...@mark.ucdavis.edu...> : I finally got my bike, and since everyone on rec.moto and ba.moto was so
> : helpful in this process, I decided to post a bit detailing the process,
and
> : a big thank you.
>
>
> What a heartbreaking story. I've been reading your posts, and wondering
> how it would all work out for you. Hang in there. Think how funny the
> story will be, telling it 20 years from now. I hope your injuries get
> better soon. :)
>
> Holly
>
Thanks for the good wishes, Holly. I spent a good deal of time thinking of
how this never would have happened if I'd simply done such-and-such
differently, or whatever. Eventually it occured to me that if circumstances
had been just slightly different in the other direction, I could be in a
hospital right now, rather than at work complaining about my bad luck on
Usenet.
All in all, I was pretty lucky, and I've learned a great deal for one day.
Thanks,
Reed
Tony Borisow
up
> for the MSF course (which I'm taking in December)"). The problem is that
> the course is back logged for between 2 and 4 months in CA's Bay Area. I
> signed up for it as soon as I decided I was going to start riding, and
> called 6 different courses. All were back-logged untill December or
> January. I seriously concidered waiting untill I'd taken the course to
buy
> the bike, but a combination of factors convinced me not too. First, one
of
> my good friends from college is flying out in late December, and I'd
wanted
> to make sure I had enough experiance to ride two up by the time she got
> here.
Advice from one Rookie to another - unless she's going to be at the
controls, you might want to give it a little more time before taking on a
passenger. Actually, all around you should be taking things slower. I live
in Jersey. So when you mentioned you got your new bike and (before taking
the MSF course) took it on I-80 & headed for Frisco, I had parallel thoughts
of hopping on I-80 and heading towards NYC. No way in hell!! Not yet
anyway :} . I've been riding a month now, and even though I live up by the
Water Gap with low volumes of traffic, I know I need more time before trying
a multi-lane interstate.
>Second, Buell was offering over $2,000 off the price of the left-over
> Y2K bikes. I'm not saying that these seem like good reasons now, but they
> did at the time. Now, of course, it'll cost more than that to fix the
bike,
> and I won't have much ride time in as it'll take a couple weeks to get it
> going again.
Nothing wrong with buying the bike when you did. In fact, that's exactly
what I did when I bought my bike. Anyway, I am truely sorry about the
damage. Hope you and the bike are up and running like new ASAP.
Tony
Reed Kennedy
> site for the earlier courses on the course starting date, several
> hours early. If people don't show up, they take people from the
> line, in the order they arrive. So you could possibly have gotten
> the course done before you got the bike. You really NEED to learn
> that stuff before you ride, especially on a big twin in an urban
> area.
I asked them about waiting lists, and even badgered them a bit... They
assured me there was no way to get into an earlier course. But I never
thought to turn up at the site. I guess I should have asked the group about
this a bit ago. I'd aranged a little bit of tutoring from one of my friends
who rides, but as time goes on, it becomes more and more obvious that MSF
and having someone tell you where the various bits are are two completely
different things.
> Um. You won't have enough experience to ride a passenger by the
> time she gets here, dude. It's recommended that a new rider not
> take a passenger until they have been riding regularly for at LEAST
> a year. If you crashed this bad and hurt your bike and so forth,
> and consider yourself lucky, how will you feel when the bike is
> hugely more topheavy, it leans over in unpredictable ways courtesy
> of your passenger, and you run a much higher risk of crashing? How
> will you feel if SHE gets hurt? And do you have a full set of
> riding gear for HER to wear?
I checked into this, and that source suggested 2-6 months. I was hoping I'd
be ready, but I obviously wouldn't have invited her to ride with me if I
didn't feel I was ready. I have to admit I'm a bit disapointed that I'll
have to wait a year, but that's obviously better than someone getting hurt.
But yes, I did think ahead and have a bunch of spare stuff for her to wear.
I have a spare leather jacket and gloves, and was going to buy her a helmet.
> Take her in the car, dude. Better your combined safety, and no
> regrets.
No car... It was bike or car, not both. Even if I could buy both, I
couldn't insure both.
> > Second, Buell was offering over $2,000 off the price of the left-over
> > Y2K bikes.
>
> You could have bought it and not picked it up until after you'd
> taken the course, too.
>
> But hey, hindsight is 20/20. 10 years ago in February will be the
> anniversary of me starting riding. It'll also be the 10th
> anniversary of my first and hopefully last major motorcycle
> accident. Two weeks after I started riding, I wrecked my KZ400 and
> watched it burn itself into a puddle of molten metal and charred
> rubber.
Ouch. It wasn't that bad, at least. I'd mananged to convince myself that
between signing up for the MSF course and doing my little private lessons,
I'd done right. Time to wait for the course, I guess. ::sigh::
> Do *NOT* take a passenger, if you care about yourself and this
> person. Not yet. Please.
I won't. This is exactly the sort of advice I depend on the group for. I
have to say I'm disapointed, but I can deal with that. One other note: I
bought one of those Ventura bags (www.ventura-hsi.com) that holds 45 liters
and can ride in the pasenger position. I was planning to use this to carry
stuff (obviously) but I also wanted to load it with a bunch of stuff to
practice carrying loads on the back of the bike (later, when I'm ready). I
know that it won't move around like a person will, but will it be of any use
to learn how to carry a passenger?
> > The major problem was more that I drifted over to the tracks when I was
> > looking for a space to change lanes.
>
> Good rule you learned there: Always be aware of EVERYTHING around
> you. NEVER stare at any one thing for long. SCAN is the first
> letter of SIPDE, which you'll learn in the MSF course.
> Scan your mirrors regularly. Look all around you in front of you
> and to the sides. Most importantly, ALWAYS have an eye out for any
> road hazards. There are a lot of inputs to process at once to stay
> alive on a bike, especially in an inner city environment.
I knew they were there, I was riding between them. I'd simply forgotten
that you tend to head slightly to the left when you check to the left,
untill you've trained yourself not to. Still my fault. Something else to
learn.
> I've long had a saying about other drivers when it comes to
> right-of-way... You can have the smug satisfaction of knowing you
> were in the right and whisper to yourself, "I had the right-of-way!"
> as you float up to heaven...
Very true. I'm used to driving tiny cars, which SUV drivers treat maybe
half as badly as they do motorcycles. As far as I'm concerned, you have
right of way when you're absolutely sure the other drivers have given it to
you, and not before.
> > But I walked away, and the bike's insured. It could have been much,
much
> > worse.
>
> Congrats for surviving your first major accident. Many people
> don't.
Damn... I was kinda hoping I could pretend it was a small accident. Less
scary that way.
Reed.
Reed Kennedy
> licenced? If not, have you considered that riding on the freeway is not
legal
> for you yet? Apart from the legality of it, < 20 miles of experience is
way
> too early to be riding in dense traffic.
Hm. I do remember that someone had mentioned to me I wasn't supposed to
ride on freeways with a permit, but I'd been dumb enough not to connect
freeway with the bay bridge. Obviously the Bay Bridge is part of 80, and 80
is a freeway. Yesterday I ended up on the bridge eastbound durring off
hours, and didn't think much of it. I just kept to the right and drove
slowly. Going into SF today at 9am was completely different. I did ok, but
durring the commute I decide I was going to stick to BART for the next
while. I didn't really want to be riding in the city, but I wanted to show
the bike to my co-workers and one of my friends. Admitantly, I was also
looking for any chance to ride I could find. I guess I let that cloud my
judgement.
> Riding a motorcycle is not intuative. The machine demands things of the
rider
> that are counter to what people do instinctively when they're in trouble.
> Countersteering is probably still fairly new to you and you're still
devoting
> an inordinate amount of attention to it. You haven't practiced
maintaining
> steady throttle and staying loose on the bike, even while it's doing
something
> unexpected.
I guess I was expecting learning to ride to have a similar learning curve to
learning to drive a car. It was similar at first, figuring out where
everything was, and how to use them. The intracacies of a motorcycle seem
much more complex than those of a car, however. As, there's obviously much
less margin for error, as I discovered.
Countersteering: I've had some people swear it's the most important thing
in the proverbial book, and others say it's not really worth it, and it's
only for race tracks. What do you guys think? How important is it? When
should I learn it?
> Get training, pick up a copy of
> Twist of the Wrist II, and find lonely places to practice your skills at
low
> intensity.
I've got "Proficiant Motorcycling" right now, and I'm going to grab Twist of
the Wrist as soon as I'm done with it.
> Fix the bike, read what you can get your hands on, be aware that there is
> conflicting information on some points and figure out for yourself what
works
> before you commit to it in the real world. Then ride a lot, but make sure
you
> build your skills away from traffic.
Thanks for the advice. I can't wait to get riding again, more safely and
thoughtfully this time.
Reed.
'00 Buell Cyclone M2, 23 miles, in the shop.
Reed Kennedy
> > something).
>
engine
> stay running after it went down?
Hey, it's a rock-solid Harley-Davidson ::grin::. I have absolutely no idea.
Why would it stop unless the fuel couldn't reach the fuel pickup? I vaugely
remember that it sounded somewhat unhappy, but memorys of that exact moment
aren't terribly clear. I don't remember the rear wheel moving, but that
could be wrong too. Maybe the clutch was in due to the way it was lying on
the ground? I know I didn't put it in neutral. I lost it, stood up as soon
as I stoped moving, walked over and turned it off.
Reed.
'00 Buell M2 Cyclone, 23 Miles, in the shop.
Andrew
"Reed Kennedy" <Cor...@NOEVILSHEEPmail.com> wrote in message
news:GMiR5.160$Tc5....@news.pacbell.net...
> I finally got my bike, and since everyone on rec.moto and ba.moto was so
> helpful in this process, I decided to post a bit detailing the process,
and
> a big thank you.
>
--
Reed,
Are you sure your insurance will cover you with just a permit?
I remember back when I got my first bike, they wouldn't let me insure it
until I had a license.
My insurance is Farmers. Maybe it depends on the state, etc.
I hope they will cover you without hassles.
I am glad to hear you are pretty much OK, the bike can
obviously be fixed. It is a true bummer. You will learn from this
experience.
Get the bike fixed ASAP and get back on it.
BTW, I enjoy reading your posts.
Andrew
95 Connie
86 Nighthawk 'S
http://ultrasupercool.com
Reed Kennedy
> July on an oil patch, broke my collarbone and bruised my ribs. My new
> leathers are now crashed in and my full face helmet needed replacement.
The
> safety gear (helmet) saved my life and the protectors probably prevented a
> shattered elbow. Your leathers are an excellent investment!
Ouch. I hope the collarbone healed ok, my father cracked his while
bicycling, and it gave him a good bit of trouble.
Yep, my leathers are crashed in now, too. See, I did it on purpose. They
look so much less pretenitous now.
> A significant number of members in this group will consider a 900cc 78hp
> bike a bit much for a newbie but I'm convinced that it is rather a matter
of
> self-control and attitude than a question of horse-power and displacement.
> Too few new riders realize that a low displacement, low power bikes
deserve
> a lot of respect and too frequently end up in a hospital (or even worse
> places).
The power of the bike was a negative for me. If they'd had one with half
the power for the same price, I would have bought it. I decided to go with
it anyway, because every other aspect of the bike was exactly what I'd been
looking for. The theory was to be conservative and deliberate with the bike
and not take advantage of the power untill I had been riding a few months,
minimum. The problem was that even if I didn't use the power on purpose, it
was ready to bite me when I screwed up and used it by mistake. I haden't
anticpated that.
> Market St. is certainly not the best place in the world to develop your
> riding skills. If you have to cross streetcar rails (not a rare thing here
> in Germany), do it at a modest angle so you won't trap your front wheel.
> Same applies to all disruptions in the pavement of the road parallel to
your
> riding line.
Agreed. I was thinking about the destination, not the roads (oops), and
hadn't really thought about what I was getting myself into. I think that if
I had known I was going into the trolly tracks I would have been more or
less ok, the major problem was that I drifted into them durring a shoulder
check and they caught me off-gaurd.
Thanks,
Reed
'00 Buell M2 Cyclone, 23 Miles, in the shop.
Reed Kennedy
Hey, that's my line...
> That's about how I felt when my first motorcycle was stolen
> 3 weeks after I got it.
Ouch. Was it insured?
> I impressed that you would be willing to share this with everybody
> and your willingness to do so may spare someone else the
> same experience.
Oh, I wouldn't want anyone else to go through something like this... At the
same time, I've tried to figure out what I did wrong, but I've already
demonstrated the limits of my ability. By leting the group in on my
screw-up, I've gotten great comments from some of the more knowlegeable
members of the group. If I'm going to have to deal with this, I'm sure as
hell going to learn as much as I can from it.
In addition to that, it's nice to have the sympathy and get-well-soons of
people who really understand. Most of the car drivers I've talked to have
reacted more or less "that sucks, you lost transportation", but people on
the groups know it's more than that.
Reed.
Reed Kennedy
so,
> > apparently). I would have been perfectly happy with a 600cc-750cc bike,
but
> > I couldn't find anything which seemed as versitile for two up and
touring,
> > but still relatively small and light and fun.
>
> were looking for.
I guess my research could have been better. I'd heard of the bike, but
untill now it was in the cloud of bikes I knew existed, but had never
concedered or had recomended to me. In all the online and magazine reviews
and people I've asked, that one never came up. That said, it looks pretty
nice. Anyone know how the seat is for two up (eventually...) and long
trips?
> > I never would have bought a Japenese bike with a 1200cc engine. I was
> > actually attracted to the fact that Buells had less HP than forgin
> > big-bikes.
>
> But a whole bunch of low-end torque, as you seem to have discovered
> the hard way.
>
> > I couldn't think of any situation where the torque would get me.
>
> Many, many cases where a newer rider will not hold the throttle
> steady in an emergency situation.
Yep. A bit short-sighted and unknowlegeable on my part. If I had it to do
over, knowing I wouldn't be able to gain the skill necicary to ride two up
over the course of 2 months, and with the MSF and other recomendations I've
gained from this thread, I would wait untill after the course and buy the
bike in December. I could have used the extra time to reasearch more.
> > There is one white scuff on the right side of the visor of the helmet
from
> > where it rubbed against the Muni bus. I don't think it ever hit the
ground.
> > No marks on the helmet itself. Does it need replacing? Where can I get
a
> > deal on a RF-800?
>
> No, you should be good with that. Novus #2 or some fine polishing
> compound should take the paint off the visor without causing any
> scratches.
Good to hear. I'll definatly replace it if necicary, but you might say I
have other things to spend money on just at the moment...
> > And don't worry. Now that I've got the
> > fear of god in me, I don't think I'll be going anywhere very fast.
>
> Same thing that happened to me. I never did more than drop my bike
> at a stoplight after that.
It's truely amazing the difference between knowing you should respect
something, knowing it's powerful, knowing it's danderous _in_you_head_, and
actually having it become part of your world-view when you get tossed off.
When I first learned to drive, I spun my little VW Rabbit into a snow drift
one winter. After that, I found a gravel parking lot and threw the little
car around untill I could control rear end slides. I never thought of
driving the same way again, and a year later that view and knowlege saved my
life when I was driving a mid-engine rear drive Toyota MR2. Hopefully, this
will be a similar lesson for bikes. I just got it a bit sooner.
Also, thank you especially Adam. You've constantly given thoughtful and
helpful replys both on this thread and to the group in general. I honestly
wouldn't be surprised if the things I've learned from you and continue to
learn save my life some day.
Thanks,
Reed.
Eric Murray
Nicholas Weaver <nwe...@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>In article <GMiR5.160$Tc5....@news.pacbell.net>,
>Reed Kennedy <Cor...@NOEVILSHEEPmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I should _Not_ have:
>This I think is one of the BIGGEST reasons for recommending lower
>displacement bikes for first time riders. The Buell is a big engine.
I have seen this "unintended acceleration" thing happen often with new
trials riders. Heck, I did it myself when I started riding trials
and I had 18 years of street and dirt riding experience at the time.
Trials bikes are mostly around 250cc, give or take 50cc. It's not a
displacement problem, it's a balance problem.
What happens is that you grip the bars hard, and then something happens
to open the throttle and either move your body weight back, or the bikes'
accelleration moves your weight back because you were not ready for it.
With the death grip on the bars you can't let go to let the throttle
rotate back to idle, and with your weight back you can't move forward
to shut the throttle.
For trials, I recomend beginners to keep a finger on the clutch lever.
Pulling in the clutch cuts the acceleration and lets you get your balance
back so you can shut the throttle. Most street bikes don't have clutches
that easy and you probably would have a death grip on the clutch side
too, so you'll have to figure out how not to do it in the first place.
I ride with my fingers covering the clutch most of the time I'm in
traffic.
I'm glad to hear that you didn't get hurt too bad. By doing what you
did you were asking for a big accident. I would strongly recommend
that when you get your Buell back you practice carefully in an area
with few cars and road obstacles (scope it out on foot if you have to)
and build your skills until you take the MSF course.
When I taught my girlfriend (now wife) to ride before she took the MSF
course, I took her to an empty parking lot and made her practice there.
Then when she had learned a little I let her ride the three blocks back
to her house. I encouraged her to practice in the parking lot and only
ride around her quiet neighborhood until she took the MSF course.
_Then_ it was ok for her to ride out in the big bad world.
Not that the MSF course is holy or anything, but it's pretty good at
teaching basic riding techniques (like, when you cross tramlines, do
it at as far from parallel as is practical). As much as it sucks
to wait, you ought to. Especially for taking passengers.
Reed Kennedy
> I remember back when I got my first bike, they wouldn't let me insure it
> until I had a license.
> My insurance is Farmers. Maybe it depends on the state, etc.
> I hope they will cover you without hassles.
I sure hope so. I bought the bike and insurance at the same time, and they
knew I only had a permit. Otherwise, the dealer's doing the repairs is the
same one that sold me the insurance, so I may have so legal recourse, but I
truely doubt it will come to that. They're great people there.
> I am glad to hear you are pretty much OK, the bike can
> obviously be fixed. It is a true bummer. You will learn from this
> experience.
> Get the bike fixed ASAP and get back on it.
Yeah. I'll have some time to heal, some time to get fully well, and likely
attend the MSF school before I get it back, so I should be a more competent
biker (at least by comparison) when I get it back. Something to look
forward too. Again.
> BTW, I enjoy reading your posts.
Thanks! I try to add what I can, which isn't much given my demonstrably
limited experiance, but I've gained so much from this group that I try to
give back and entertain.
Reed.
'00 Buell Cyclone M2, 23 Miles, in the shop.
Rigger
> And don't worry. Now that I've got the
> fear of god in me, I don't think I'll be going anywhere very fast.
Well, that's all well and good but don't overdo it... There is such
thing as being *too* cautious, y'see.
Sounds to me like you've got a good grip on what went pear-shaped for
you... I think you'll do alright.
--
rigger-at-voyager-dot-net
IATSE #274 DoD#2117 NGI#666 ACGWB#5 BMoZ#[Classified]
Reed Kennedy
> be able to tell you as much as any group can. I posted in the
> archive there a great review of the ZR-7.
One to many 's's. I found it though.
http://www.egroups.com/group/ZR_Riders
for anyone else who's interested. It doesn't show an archive for that
group, could you mail me your review (cor...@NOCAPSmail.com)? Or did you
mean the R.M.R reviews page? If they total the bike, I may have to decide
if I would buy the same one over again. Hopefully I won't have to make this
desicion, but if they do have to replace the frame, that's $3,000 on a bike
I only paid $6,500 for, and there's a bunch more to fix...
> > Also, thank you especially Adam. You've constantly given thoughtful and
> > helpful replys both on this thread and to the group in general.
>
> Hey, I appreciate that. Thanks. I have my bad days, some things
> get to me, and I'm not always as sweetly smiling in my replies as I
> might be at my shop. I like to think that I do more good than bad.
We all do. Especially the way this group goes. Where are you again? Once
I get my wheels back under me and some good experiance, I plan to ride all
over, and I'd love to stop in and say hi at your shop if / when I end up in
your area.
One more random question: In Britan, you aren't allowed to have more than a
certain number of HP untill a certain age, so they install restricter plates
in bikes which are a bit to powerful. If I remember correctly, they do a
similar thing on smaller NASCAR circuits. Is there any chance I could have
something like this built for my bike to keep the power down untill I get
used to it? Would it dammage the bike? I'd be more than happy with about
half the power it has now.
> > I honestly
> > wouldn't be surprised if the things I've learned from you and continue
to
> > learn save my life some day.
>
> I hope it never comes to that, but if I can offer something of use
> that keeps someone alive, I'm all for it.
Well, not to sound ungrateful, but I'm hopeing that I'll just do something
the way you said rather than the way I might have otherwise, and not even
get into the trouble. So I wouldn't even know my life had been saved. It's
not as dramatic, but it's much easier on the heart.
Thanks,
Reed
Eric Johnson
news:GMiR5.160$Tc5....@news.pacbell.net...
Well, not being a guy to say "I told you so," I won't. However, this story
really brings out the truth in what I preach in here every time a newbie
asks what kind of bike to buy for a first bike. My answer is always:
something small, cheap, used, and naked. Had this accident happened with a
Honda CM450 that you had bought for $600, you could have just signed the
pink slip and handed to the wrecker driver and taken the BART on into work
and back home and looked for another bike. I hope that this can be a lesson
to other newbies that are contemplating buying a first bike. And Reed, I
hope that they get you bike put back together soon and that you wait until
after the MSF course to take it back out. Your life can depend on it!!!
--
Eric Johnson (adways at i1 dot net)
81 CM400T, 82 CB750SC Nighthawk (Being parted out), 82 920 Virago, 83 XVZ12
Venture, 97 KE100 (coming soon), 75 H1 Mach III
http://www.topica.com/lists/stlcycle
Andrew Johnson
> I got about 30 yards before the bike cut out. It
> took me about 5 minutes sitting at the side of the road before I
> remembered to turn the fuel petcock (sp?) back on.
No, you spelled *that* one correctly...
I remember the first time I ran out of gas on the freeway, it was on the
ramp from 92 East to 101 South, freaked me out until I realized it was
just main and I still had reserve. No problem, especially with two
petcocks so I could switch with my left hand.
Someday you *will* push your bike to a filling station, as certainly as
you will go down.
Go practice in the hills, but please don't go wide on turns. The most
important thing is that you must never, ever, cross over the double
yellow on a turn. It might be me or someone else on ba.moto coming in
the other direction. You just lean more and look where you want to go,
and you'll avoid taking out other riders on turns.
- andrew, Berkeley '87 R80, Y2K R1150GS
Rich Lesperance
Thanks for an entertaining and informative post. You've got alot of replies
to read, but as another newbie (who bought a secondhand 250 Night Hawk so he
won't cry when he does what you did) I just wanted to say thanks for the
post!
Also, thanks for throwing in that bit about feeling "poseurish" in the
leathers. I, too, have to convince myself to get the proper safety gear,
even if it is just a commute bike at this point...
> I have a sore rib. It's probably just a bruise, but if it keeps hurting
> I'll probably go to the hospital this weekend. I really doubt it's
broken.
> Anyone know how to tell?
No way to tell short of an X-ray. If it doesn't hurt excruciatingly every
time you breathe, who cares if it's broken <g>. If you can take a deepish
breath without pain, don't worry about it.
Good luck, and thanks again for the story.
Rich L
marjon
meds, but that is it. I asked the Doctor if I should wrap them and his response
was, "if it makes you feel better". Hope you heal quick and hope you hop back on
two wheels.
Remember, Keep the shiny side up!
-mark.
Reed Kennedy wrote:
> I finally got my bike, and since everyone on rec.moto and ba.moto was so
> helpful in this process, I decided to post a bit detailing the process, and
> a big thank you.
>
> A Newbie's First Shot at Motorcycling
>
> Part 1
> 'Reasearch'
> I moved to CA from upstate NY in June, and decided I'd rather have a
> motorcycle than a car when I found out it didn't snow here. I've wanted one
> for some time, but they make more sense here than in NY where you can't ride
> them a good portion of the year. I went out to the local bookstores and
> purchased every motorcycle magazine I could find, and "The Complete Idiots
> Guide to Motorcycling" (which I heartilly recomend to newbies). After I
> finished reading these, I went to the library and looked through about two
> years of back issues of Motorcycle Magazine and Cycle World. I also read
> almost everything on www.motorcycle.com, as well as many of the R.M.R
> reviews, and started reading rec.moto and ba.moto (as I live in Berkeley).
> I signed up for the MSF course (which I'm taking in December), and found a
> local biker to give me lessons on his 200cc Honda. I originally started
> looking at Ducati Monstors and the BMW R1200C, but after being underwhelmed
> by the salesman at Munroe and deciding agains the Beemer based on price, I
> started looking at used bikes. I decided a GS500E or Seca II would work
> well, but wasn't able to find one I wanted. At this point I started looking
> at new "starter" bikes.
>
> My favorite amoung these was the Buell Blast, but when I took it for a test
> ride (Buell is great about test rides) I found that I didn't fit very well.
> I'm 6'4, and the Blast just felt too small to be comfortable for longer
> trips. I ended up looking at the Buell M2 Cyclone, the next bike in their
> line. I posted to the group asking about the viability of this bike for
> beginers, and got answers in both directions, although I must say the
> consesus seemed to be that I should start with something small and cheap. I
> read every review I could find on the M2. Eventually I decided that while
> starting small seemed like sound advice, the Buell seemed like everything I
> wanted in a motorcycle (comfortable for 2 up, not too bike, fast but not too
> fast, naked, comfortable for long trips), and I decided to go for it. Scott
> and Angel at Dudley Perkins Harley Davidson Buell were wonderful, and I
> heartilly recomend their shop.
>
> Getting the Bike:
>
> I'm 20 and don't have much credit, so I needed to have a co-sign for the
> loan. All of my familly is still on the east coast, so we had to Fedex
> bunchs of papers back and forth so that my father could co-sign for me.
> Angel was great about this whole process, very patcient, and even extended
> the rebate for me. I ended up getting my M2 for $6500 plus nuisance
> charges, tax, etc... Decided to get a set of Vanson two peice leathers, an
> alarm, a tach kit, and a set of locks for the bike. I bought the locks and
> alarm for the bike because don't have a garage and have to park it outside
> in South Berkeley, which is not the best neigborhood. I really wasn't sure
> about the leathers, and I still feel quite pretentious and poseresque in new
> Vanson Leathers on my first bike, but in the end I decided that I should
> have good protection while I was learning, as this seems to be the time I'm
> most likely to go down. I also thought that not buying protective gear like
> the Vansons because of what people might think of me would be just about as
> stupid as buying then in the hopes that people would think I was cool. I
> was able to finance the leathers along with the bike, which also helped.
>
> Takeing Delivery:
>
> After weeks of shipping papers across the country, I got the bike Yesterday.
> After over a month of waiting I finally got the bike... while I was dog
> sick. I picked the bike up at the dealer, and went to work, simply because
> I didn't want to call up and say "Oh, I just got my new motorcycle. And oh
> yeah, I'm sick ::coughcough::. As soon as I got there they told me to go
> home. I did, and spent the rest of the day in bed. I have to say, I'd been
> tempted to call in sick the day I got my bike, but I haden't planned to
> actually spend it in _bed_.
>
> The Next Day (today):
> I woke up before my alarm went off, I was so excited to ride. I was still a
> bit sick, but not enough to stop me from trying out my new bike. I got
> ready, put on my gear, and took off. I got on 80W to go into SF, and
> enjoyed useing the carpool bypass to avoid the toll. I went over the Bay
> Bridge, and was careful not to take the bike over 50 mph, as it only had
> about 17 miles on it, and was still very much breaking in. I actually
> managed to find a parking spot, got off, had coffee with a friend, and then
> took the bike back out. I got about 30 yards before the bike cut out. It
> took me about 5 minutes sitting at the side of the road before I remembered
> to turn the fuel petcock (sp?) back on. I decided that I would ride down to
> Scuderia West to pick up some no-fog stuff for my visor, and then find some
> less crowded roads to practice on. I took Montgomery down to Market, and
> was on my way. This is when I started having problems.
>
> Oops:
>
> I ended up in the left lane of Market, where the Muni rails are. I decided
> I didn't want to be here, so I signaled and started checking to my sides to
> try and change lanes. Unfortuantly, while I was checking for a spot to slip
> into, my front tire sliped into one of the Muni rail grooves. I had no idea
> how to handle this, and it seriously threw my bike off. At this point I had
> some sort of problem with the throttle. I'd love to belive that it got
> stuck somehow, but in reality I think that having my front tire caught
> caused me to grab the bars too tight, and the fact that the bars were
> wobbling caused me to open the throttle too far. I was either unable to
> close the throttle, or unable to think fast enough to properly access the
> situation, probably the later. I ended up unstable, with the throttle much
> to far open. I went into the side of a Muni bus, which bent my rear brake
> lever into the bike, and bent my front break lever into the throttle grip,
> possible helping it stay opened. The bike went down, and I slid with it for
> a bit, untill I noticed it was going under an _second_ Muni bus ahead of me,
> when I let go.
>
> This all happened very quickly, of course, and at only around 20 miles per
> hour, thank goodness. I'm not sure how accurate this is, but it's the best
> I could figure it out. I ended up in the middle of Market street, my bike
> had slid a bit under the bus, but those are so high off the ground that the
> bike never actually touched this bus. I walked over to the bike, killed the
> engine (first smart thing I'd done so far) and yanked it up off the ground
> with one hand, something I'd never be able to do without the adreniline in
> my body at the time. I had three Muni buses around me, and a great many
> Muni personel.
>
> Things I've Learned From This Fuckup:
> I should _Not_ have:
> Been riding in SF (I don't have nearly enough experiance yet).
> Been riding in the left lane on Market, especially without knowing how to
> deal with the Muni Rails.
> Grabbed the bars hard when I got scared.
>
> I _Should_ have:
> Pulled in the clutch when I noticed any problem with the throttle.
> Used Howard or some less crowded road rather than Market.
> Used the rear brake (I don't know if I did or not).
> Been more aware of the placement of the rails.
> Practiced more on less crowded roads.
>
> Things I did right:
> I wasn't going very fast
> I was wearing a Shoei helmet, the Vanson jacket and a pair of Carbon-Kevlar
> reinforced Buell race gloves. The jacket and gloves I'd almost decided
> against as poserish overkill saved me a great deal of injury.
> I remembered to kill the engine when I got back to the bike (hey, it's
> something).
> Uh, I managed not to ram the Muni bus head on. I guess that's a good thing.
>
> Dammage report.
> Me:
> Small scuff on the jacket.
> Rip on the front right pocket on my Draggin' Jeans
> I've got a sore hip under the ripped pocket. This is the last time I'm
> leaving my keys in my pocket while riding.
> I have a sore rib. It's probably just a bruise, but if it keeps hurting
> I'll probably go to the hospital this weekend. I really doubt it's broken.
> Anyone know how to tell?
>
> Bike:
> I cracked the big ugly Buell Airbox right open.
> I bent the front and rear break levers.
> I scratched the exhaust header pipes a tiny bit, but they should be ok.
> Chipped the tank paint.
> Poped the front tank mount out.
> Broke the shift leaver off.
> Broke the right rear turn signal off.
> Left controls and mirror bent down.
> Right controls and mirror bent up.
> Left passenger footpeg broken off.
> Various scratches, etc...
>
> On further inspection: Buell says that having the front tank mount pop out
> often indicates a compressed frame. This could be very expensive. If I'm
> lucky, it was the tank that compressed, and I only need a new tank.
> Otherwise, I'll need a new frame ($1000 plus $2000 labor). Plus all the
> other stuff.
>
> Basically, the bus took out the right side, and the ground took out the
> left.
>
> I have insurance, of course, but being 20 and male is bad enough, without
> having a totaled bike on my insurance.
>
> Basically, I'm very lucky in that I'm pretty definately ok, I didn't get hit
> by any of the buses or cars on Market, and my saftey gear has all paid for
> itself. I'm definatly thankful for that.
>
> On the other hand, I'd had the bike for about 20 hours, and had put 19 miles
> on it. I won't have it back for a couple weeks, minimum, after waiting
> weeks to get it.
>
> Sum total, I guess I got off fairly light, and it was a pretty good first
> accident. It's given me some very solid respect for the machine and the
> potential dangers of motorcycling that were only ideas before. I decided I
> wanted to be safe about biking from the begining, but it's the difference
> between knowing a stove is hot and having been burned.
>
> Any comments are welcome. If you find a way that I've screwed up that I
> didn't notice, please don't spare my feelings and tell me. The only way I
> can be constructive about this is to treat it as a learning experiance. And
> it's an expensive one, so I'd like to learn as much as possible. Any other
> advice on getting my bike back on the road or anything else would be great.
>
> On a positive note, of all the stuff I broke in the accident, the PalmPilot
> in my left jean pocket came out unscathed. Even if I'm a fairly lousy
> motorcyclist, I can still be a competent geek.
>
> Also, thank you all for your help. Rec.moto and ba.moto helped me find a
> bike, choose a helmet, choose leathers, and all sorts of other invaluable
> information (as well as something to do when I'm bored at work) Thanks to
> all of you.
>
> Reed Kennedy
> '00 Buell M2 Cyclone, 23 miles, in the shop.
>
> Un-paid advertisements:
> People who helped me through this process:
> Motorcycle Online, rec.moto, ba.moto, Angel and Scott of Dudley Perkins
> Buell of SF, CA, Vanson, Shoei, Draggin' Jeans.
Rick Damiani
>I would think that would be covered by the general rule for crossing
>tracks; slow, get the bike as perpendicular to the tracks as
>possible, cross the tracks with no steering, brake or throttle
>inputs, and then return to your regularly-scheduled path. Just a
>bit trickier when they're nearly parallel to you.
They aren't nearly parallel - they are completely parallel. The tracks
are part of the roadway. Those tracks, the bizarre pedestrian
patterns, and the numerous and large traffic islands make Market
Street a freaking nightmare for folks who aren't used to it (such as
myself). When I visit that area, I try to avoid driving on Market
Street as much as possible.
After walking through parts of it and watching the traffic for a bit,
I am frankly amazed that they don't have fatal crashes there every
freaking day.
--
A host is a host from coast to coast ..................... Rick Damiani
and no one will talk to a host that's close .... ri...@nospam.paton.com
Unless the host (that isn't close) ......... ri...@nospam.earthlink.net
is busy, hung or dead ..............................NGI# T695 DoD #2659
'99 Triumph Sprint ST (Guppy) ....... '86 Yamaha Radian (Fire Breather)
Rick Damiani
>I checked into this, and that source suggested 2-6 months. I was hoping I'd
>be ready, but I obviously wouldn't have invited her to ride with me if I
>didn't feel I was ready. I have to admit I'm a bit disapointed that I'll
>have to wait a year, but that's obviously better than someone getting hurt.
I have been riding since I was 12. I don't like riding with a
passenger in general, but have taken them on occasion. The problem I
have with passengers is that you have to prepare them for the
experience and teach them how to do it. If they aren't receptive, it
becomes much more of an ordeal than anything else [1]. It's not at all
like taking them for a ride in the car. Personally, I would never take
a passenger with me on any bike I have not ridden regularly for at
least six months, and would not recommend that a new rider take one
for at least a year, and then only after learning to be a passenger
themselves.
Riding pillion is not a completely passive activity, nor can you learn
enough about how to sit in back to teach someone else from sitting in
front.
[1] Fortunately for me, my wife has been very receptive to learning
about being a good passenger. We work together well enough that taking
her places is quite enjoyable.
Rick Damiani
>Countersteering: I've had some people swear it's the most important thing
>in the proverbial book, and others say it's not really worth it, and it's
>only for race tracks. What do you guys think? How important is it? When
>should I learn it?
Countersteering is something you pretty much have to do continually.
While it is possible to steer by shifting you weight, you have a bunch
less control doing it that way than you do by countersteering.
For the track only? Not by a long shot.
Larry
Ricardo Cabra <ric...@newton.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
news:3A15BDD3...@newton.berkeley.edu...
> Hi,
> It's never happened to me, but I've been told that a broken rib is
extremely
> painful.
>
Get an X-ray. If you have a cracked rib, it may not be too painful, and
they won't do anything about it anyway. But if you have a broken rib, which
is unlikely, as you would feel sharp pain upon sitting up in bed, turning,
lifting milk out of the fridge, etc. you should have it checked. Actualy
broken ribs can do nasty things like puncture lungs, or tear surrounding
muscle. In that case they will put a wrap around you to keep you from
breathing too deeply and to remind you to take it easy. However, this can
lead to pneumonia in some people, so it isn't favored. I've busted my ribs
in several different ways (some on motorcycles, and some not) and to
differing degrees over the years, and based upon your report, I would
suspect that you've bruised your ribs, but an x-ray will tell you for sure.
Oh, and let me add my name to the list of people telling you two things:
1. Do not take a passenger anywhere until you've been accident free for
5,000 plus miles.
2. Get your license through MSF. It will save you lots more down time.
And by the way, the Cyclone turns out to be a fortunate choice-- at least
you were sitting fairly upright, which is good for leverage-- and you don't
have a lot of very expensive plastic to replace.
All in all, your choice of protective gear, and some luck, allowed this to
turn out o.k. And the fact that you're not quitting, but rather looking to
learn for the future is an indication that you just might be "a
motorcyclist" at heart.
Larry
00 929
Larry
>
> : I finally got my bike, and since everyone on rec.moto and ba.moto was so
> : helpful in this process, I decided to post a bit detailing the process,
and
> : a big thank you.
>
>
> What a heartbreaking story. I've been reading your posts, and wondering
> how it would all work out for you. Hang in there. Think how funny the
> story will be, telling it 20 years from now. I hope your injuries get
> better soon. :)
>
> Holly
It won't take 20 years. It will be funny about the same time your ribs stop
hurting. Which works out great, because it's hard to laugh with sore ribs.
: - )
Peter Berghs
Reed Kennedy wrote:
> The Next Day (today):
> I woke up before my alarm went off, I was so excited to ride. I was still a
> bit sick,
I too was feeling under the weather when I got the call that my new bike
was ready to pick-up. I bussed down, did the paper work then left
without the bike because I was not feeling alert enough to ride. I was
still sick the next day and, even though it was tempting, I did not get
the bike. I waited until I felt confident that I could react to
whatever the bike threw at me. When I finally did get it on the road I
drove home using a route that took me away from busy intersections and
potential hazards. The next day i rode down to the deadest mall in town
(Deerfoot Mall), found the quietest part of the parking lot, and went
through about an hours worth of slow speed maneuvers, emergency stops
and swerves. I found out that the bike really dives when the front
brakes are used aggressively and my bike responded to counter steering
pressure a lot more than the bikes I used in the MSF course. After that
it was on to the streets for some cruisin'. I'm still learning
something new each and every time I venture out on the pavement or
gravel roads. So far the closest I've come to wrecking is when I
crossed over the curb formed by a new layer of asphalt. I was riding at
night and did not even see it before I hit it. The steering twitched a
little but I did not tense up and I was up and over it in no time.
In summary, when you get your bike back try practicing somewhere safe
(out of traffic), think about your routes before hand, and don't ride
when you are sick.
Hoping you and your bike recover quickly,
Peter B
Some Guy on a Bike
<Cor...@NOEVILSHEEPmail.com> wrote:
> I am signed up to take the MSF course (from the original post: "I signed up
> for the MSF course (which I'm taking in December)"). The problem is that
> the course is back logged for between 2 and 4 months in CA's Bay Area. I
> signed up for it as soon as I decided I was going to start riding, and
> called 6 different courses. All were back-logged untill December or
> January.
What you should ALWAYS do in a case like that is to go to the course
site for the earlier courses on the course starting date, several
hours early. If people don't show up, they take people from the
line, in the order they arrive. So you could possibly have gotten
the course done before you got the bike. You really NEED to learn
that stuff before you ride, especially on a big twin in an urban
area.
> I seriously concidered waiting untill I'd taken the course to buy
> the bike, but a combination of factors convinced me not too. First, one of
> my good friends from college is flying out in late December, and I'd wanted
> to make sure I had enough experiance to ride two up by the time she got
> here.
Um. You won't have enough experience to ride a passenger by the
time she gets here, dude. It's recommended that a new rider not
take a passenger until they have been riding regularly for at LEAST
a year. If you crashed this bad and hurt your bike and so forth,
and consider yourself lucky, how will you feel when the bike is
hugely more topheavy, it leans over in unpredictable ways courtesy
of your passenger, and you run a much higher risk of crashing? How
will you feel if SHE gets hurt? And do you have a full set of
riding gear for HER to wear?
Take her in the car, dude. Better your combined safety, and no
regrets.
> Second, Buell was offering over $2,000 off the price of the left-over
> Y2K bikes.
You could have bought it and not picked it up until after you'd
taken the course, too.
But hey, hindsight is 20/20. 10 years ago in February will be the
anniversary of me starting riding. It'll also be the 10th
anniversary of my first and hopefully last major motorcycle
accident. Two weeks after I started riding, I wrecked my KZ400 and
watched it burn itself into a puddle of molten metal and charred
rubber.
> Now, of course, it'll cost more than that to fix the bike,
> and I won't have much ride time in as it'll take a couple weeks to get it
> going again.
Do *NOT* take a passenger, if you care about yourself and this
person. Not yet. Please.
>> I would think that would be covered by the general rule for crossing
>> tracks; slow, get the bike as perpendicular to the tracks as
>> possible, cross the tracks with no steering, brake or throttle
>> inputs, and then return to your regularly-scheduled path. Just a
>> bit trickier when they're nearly parallel to you.
> The major problem was more that I drifted over to the tracks when I was
> looking for a space to change lanes.
Good rule you learned there: Always be aware of EVERYTHING around
you. NEVER stare at any one thing for long. SCAN is the first
letter of SIPDE, which you'll learn in the MSF course.
Scan your mirrors regularly. Look all around you in front of you
and to the sides. Most importantly, ALWAYS have an eye out for any
road hazards. There are a lot of inputs to process at once to stay
alive on a bike, especially in an inner city environment.
> Those things are bastards, I've gotten my bicycle caught in them before, and
> they're absolute hell. That's not a good excuse, though, and I still take
> full responsibility.
Good call. If there's someting you don't want to hit/fall in, the
obligation is YOURS to make sure you avoid it.
I've long had a saying about other drivers when it comes to
right-of-way... You can have the smug satisfaction of knowing you
were in the right and whisper to yourself, "I had the right-of-way!"
as you float up to heaven...
> But I walked away, and the bike's insured. It could have been much, much
> worse.
Congrats for surviving your first major accident. Many people
don't.
--
=====================================================================
Adam Wade "The only way I'll stop riding
CWRA #4 SDWL #2 is if I stop breathing."
CIMC #1 DoD #2009 LOMP #2 1990 Zephyr 550 (Daphne)
The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not represent
those of my employer in any form.
=====================================================================
Andy Burnett
<FTjR5.179$Tc5.1...@news.pacbell.net>:
Reed,
Like everyone else, I'm sorry to hear about your crash and am glad you're not
hurt badly.
Now that you've clarified the MSF thing, I have another question: Are you
licenced? If not, have you considered that riding on the freeway is not legal
for you yet? Apart from the legality of it, < 20 miles of experience is way
too early to be riding in dense traffic.
Riding a motorcycle is not intuative. The machine demands things of the rider
that are counter to what people do instinctively when they're in trouble.
Countersteering is probably still fairly new to you and you're still devoting
an inordinate amount of attention to it. You haven't practiced maintaining
steady throttle and staying loose on the bike, even while it's doing something
unexpected.
You're a young guy with, hopefully, a lot of years ahead of you. You'll become
a better rider in a shorter period, if you gain your experience in small
increments and learn each thing thoroughly. Get training, pick up a copy of
Twist of the Wrist II, and find lonely places to practice your skills at low
intensity. If you feel anxious while riding, do whatever it takes to reduce
the intensity of the situation. You'll learn faster and give yourself time to
let some of this nutty stuff like countersteering really soak into your bones.
Your life may depend on it. Here's an example: What if a car unexpectedly
began to change lanes into you now and you reacted on the handlebar as if you
were driving a car?
Fix the bike, read what you can get your hands on, be aware that there is
conflicting information on some points and figure out for yourself what works
before you commit to it in the real world. Then ride a lot, but make sure you
build your skills away from traffic.
ab
SeagramSvn
> I remembered to kill the engine when I got back to the bike (hey, it's
> something).
First of all, good to hear you're okay. Second, how the heck did your engine
Tilman Göttke
> On a positive note, of all the stuff I broke in the accident, the
PalmPilot
> in my left jean pocket came out unscathed. Even if I'm a fairly lousy
> motorcyclist, I can still be a competent geek.
>
>
> '00 Buell M2 Cyclone, 23 miles, in the shop.
>
Reed,
You are displaying the right kind of attitude. I really like your story, and
the PalmPilot bit is way cool! Bruised/broken ribs can hurt badly, but will
probably heal faster than your Buell. Believe me, I dropped my SO's bike in
July on an oil patch, broke my collarbone and bruised my ribs. My new
leathers are now crashed in and my full face helmet needed replacement. The
safety gear (helmet) saved my life and the protectors probably prevented a
shattered elbow. Your leathers are an excellent investment!
A couple of comments have been about the size of your bike. I won't comment
on your strange ride, you are suffering enough bodily and mental pain for
now :-) However, my lovely wife got her Ducati Monster M900 Dark the day
after she got her license (a highly excrutiating process here in Germany
with a lot of 1 by 1 practical lessons and lots of theory). She rides very
well now (after half a year) and has been to 2 track days already. She
dropped the Duc only once at zero ground speed when she was forced to stop
on a steep shoulder in a tight corner.
A significant number of members in this group will consider a 900cc 78hp
bike a bit much for a newbie but I'm convinced that it is rather a matter of
self-control and attitude than a question of horse-power and displacement.
Too few new riders realize that a low displacement, low power bikes deserve
a lot of respect and too frequently end up in a hospital (or even worse
places).
Market St. is certainly not the best place in the world to develop your
riding skills. If you have to cross streetcar rails (not a rare thing here
in Germany), do it at a modest angle so you won't trap your front wheel.
Same applies to all disruptions in the pavement of the road parallel to your
riding line.
Don't get discouraged and - keep the rubberside down!
Tilman
Landau, Germany
Ducati ST4
Nothing flies like a Duc
mmnnoo
That's about how I felt when my first motorcycle was stolen
3 weeks after I got it.
I impressed that you would be willing to share this with everybody
Some Guy on a Bike
<Cor...@NOEVILSHEEPmail.com> wrote:
> I was actually pretty afraid of the displacement of the Buell (rightly so,
> apparently). I would have been perfectly happy with a 600cc-750cc bike, but
> I couldn't find anything which seemed as versitile for two up and touring,
> but still relatively small and light and fun.
You know, a ZR-7 Kawasaki sounds like it is about the exact bike you
were looking for.
>> One other thing to get, when you get the bike back: a nice cover for
>> it, to keep it protected from the rain and elements.
> Oops. Forgot to mention that. I already got one, specially fitted for the
> bike by Buell. Yet the bike still got wet in the dew this morning. How
> odd...
Condensation can form anwhere that air meets the machine. Unless
you put it inside a Zip-Loc (tm), that can happen.
> I never would have bought a Japenese bike with a 1200cc engine. I was
> actually attracted to the fact that Buells had less HP than forgin
> big-bikes.
But a whole bunch of low-end torque, as you seem to have discovered
the hard way.
> I couldn't think of any situation where the torque would get me.
Many, many cases where a newer rider will not hold the throttle
steady in an emergency situation.
> I've been driving standard cars for 4 years... I
> should know enough to pull in the clutch. But it didn't even occur to me
> untill about half an hour later.
Live and learn. Deal with crisis now; panic LATER, when crisis
over!
> One mistake I forgot to add to my list. I'm still a little bit sick, and
> shouldn't have been riding at all.
As an experienced rider, and one who is aware of how much his
ability is diminished when he is slightly ill, and with a good feel
of whether he can compensate for it, I hadn't even thought of that.
But when it comes to a new rider who needs all his faculties and
reflexes, you're absolutely right. Good call.
> Everyone keep your fingers crossed for me... If the frame isn't bent, it
> shouldn't be that bad, and I won't have to put it on my insurance...
Probably best if you can manage it.
> There is one white scuff on the right side of the visor of the helmet from
> where it rubbed against the Muni bus. I don't think it ever hit the ground.
> No marks on the helmet itself. Does it need replacing? Where can I get a
> deal on a RF-800?
No, you should be good with that. Novus #2 or some fine polishing
compound should take the paint off the visor without causing any
scratches.
> And don't worry. Now that I've got the
> fear of god in me, I don't think I'll be going anywhere very fast.
Same thing that happened to me. I never did more than drop my bike
at a stoplight after that.
Some Guy on a Bike
wrote:
> how the heck did your engine
> stay running after it went down?
Most bikes will continue to run quite happily on their side until
they seize from lack of oil.
Nicholas Weaver
Reed Kennedy <Cor...@NOEVILSHEEPmail.com> wrote:
>I was actually pretty afraid of the displacement of the Buell (rightly so,
>apparently). I would have been perfectly happy with a 600cc-750cc bike, but
>I couldn't find anything which seemed as versitile for two up and touring,
>but still relatively small and light and fun.
Unfortunatly, if the bike is really designed for 2up, you are going to
have a certain minimum physical size. For solo distance, however,
that is what I think ones like the Bandit and the previous generation
600 sportbikes (ZX-6, Katana) are designed to do, or just a UJM with
an added windscreen (Nighthawk 750, ZR-7).
>Oops. Forgot to mention that. I already got one, specially fitted for the
>bike by Buell. Yet the bike still got wet in the dew this morning. How
>odd...
Probably because the bike does get cold enough to condense the
moisture out of the air under the cover.
>I never would have bought a Japenese bike with a 1200cc engine. I was
>actually attracted to the fact that Buells had less HP than forgin
>big-bikes. I couldn't think of any situation where the torque would get me.
>I can think of one now... I probably only had the throttle open a few
>degrees more than I wanted, but it was enough to freak me out and stop me
>from thinking clearly. I've been driving standard cars for 4 years... I
>should know enough to pull in the clutch. But it didn't even occur to me
>untill about half an hour later.
I really wish they wouldn't talk about torque, or horsepower. What
really matters is the HP/rpm function, aka the dyno run.
For example, as a beginner, the normal Buells would worry me almost as
much as a 1L japanese bike. The japanese bikes have much higher RPM,
and therefore would get more HP and have more potential to get me into
trouble through lack of restraint. But I DO have restraint [1].
However, they have roughly the same horsepower at a given RPM, namely,
alot. So both would at roughly the same level of twitchy with regard
to the throttle at low RPM.
My uncle rides a big 1200cc metric cruiser (a Yamaha, I think). When
riding down the residential road away from his house, he HAS to keep
his hand partially off the throttle and on the bar end. OTherwise, if
his hand was only on the throttle, if he hit a bump, the machine would
buck a bit.
>Nick had actually invited me via email, and I'd been hoping to go on the
>Berkeley tour this weekend, but I guess I'll have to take a rain check...
No problem. This weekend wasn't actually the best (big game on sat,
meeting a friend on sunday, + work). When you get the bike repaired,
I'll show you the roads.
>There is one white scuff on the right side of the visor of the helmet from
>where it rubbed against the Muni bus. I don't think it ever hit the ground.
>No marks on the helmet itself. Does it need replacing? Where can I get a
>deal on a RF-800?
I'd personally be paranoid and scrap it, but that's just me. You
could send it to Shoei to get it X-rayed. Since you are just
replacing the one you got, you could just mail order it.
[1] Well, mostly. I have WOT to redline my EX a few times in 2k
miles, at freeway onramps, begin 55 MPH zone boundries, and on-freeway
acceleration (car in front of me slowed for offramp, I slowed too,
drop to 3rd to get back up to speed). But I know the bike has a small
enough engine that I can get away with it.
--
Nicholas C. Weaver nwe...@cs.berkeley.edu
Peter Berghs
Eric Murray wrote:
>
> >This I think is one of the BIGGEST reasons for recommending lower
> >displacement bikes for first time riders. The Buell is a big engine.
>
> I have seen this "unintended acceleration" thing happen often with new
> trials riders. Heck, I did it myself when I started riding trials
> and I had 18 years of street and dirt riding experience at the time.
> Trials bikes are mostly around 250cc, give or take 50cc. It's not a
> displacement problem, it's a balance problem.
>
> What happens is that you grip the bars hard, and then something happens
> to open the throttle and either move your body weight back, or the bikes'
> accelleration moves your weight back because you were not ready for it.
> With the death grip on the bars you can't let go to let the throttle
> rotate back to idle, and with your weight back you can't move forward
> to shut the throttle.
In the MSF course I took the instructors kept reminding us to keep the
throttle grip fairly low so that we could not fully crank on a lot of
throttle without straining the wrist.
Peter B
Andy Burnett
>Countersteering: I've had some people swear it's the most important
>thing in the proverbial book, and others say it's not really worth it,
>and it's only for race tracks. What do you guys think? How important
>is it? When should I learn it?
When do you want to be able to turn a bike? It's that simple.
Countersteering is the most effective way to turn a bike. It works at any
speed, anyone can do it and it's dead reliable. The procedure is simple
and consists of this: Sitting relaxed and comfortably on the bike, press
straight forward on the inside bar (left bar for a left turn). This will
lean the bike. when the bke reaches your desired lean angle, just relax
and stop pressing. Go try it and decide if it's worth it.
ab
Some Guy on a Bike
<Cor...@NOEVILSHEEPmail.com> wrote:
>> You know, a ZR-7 Kawasaki sounds like it is about the exact bike you
>> were looking for.
> I guess my research could have been better. I'd heard of the bike, but
> untill now it was in the cloud of bikes I knew existed, but had never
> concedered or had recomended to me. In all the online and magazine reviews
> and people I've asked, that one never came up. That said, it looks pretty
> nice. Anyone know how the seat is for two up (eventually...) and long
> trips?
Go to http://www.egroups.com/groups/ZR_Riders and join. They should
be able to tell you as much as any group can. I posted in the
archive there a great review of the ZR-7.
>>> I couldn't think of any situation where the torque would get me.
>> Many, many cases where a newer rider will not hold the throttle
>> steady in an emergency situation.
> Yep. A bit short-sighted and unknowlegeable on my part.
This is how we learn. However, I wouldn't have chosen to do it on a
new torquey bike.
> If I had it to do
> over, knowing I wouldn't be able to gain the skill necicary to ride two up
> over the course of 2 months, and with the MSF and other recomendations I've
> gained from this thread, I would wait untill after the course and buy the
> bike in December. I could have used the extra time to reasearch more.
Hey, live and learn. Your life's not over yet. I;{>
>> No, you should be good with that. Novus #2 or some fine polishing
>> compound should take the paint off the visor without causing any
>> scratches.
> Good to hear. I'll definatly replace it if necicary, but you might say I
> have other things to spend money on just at the moment...
A scratch on the visor does not a helmet replacement make.
>>> And don't worry. Now that I've got the
>>> fear of god in me, I don't think I'll be going anywhere very fast.
>> Same thing that happened to me. I never did more than drop my bike
>> at a stoplight after that.
> It's truely amazing the difference between knowing you should respect
> something, knowing it's powerful, knowing it's danderous _in_you_head_, and
> actually having it become part of your world-view when you get tossed off.
No #@*^&$()&^ kidding!
> When I first learned to drive, I spun my little VW Rabbit into a snow drift
> one winter. After that, I found a gravel parking lot and threw the little
> car around untill I could control rear end slides. I never thought of
> driving the same way again, and a year later that view and knowlege saved my
> life when I was driving a mid-engine rear drive Toyota MR2. Hopefully, this
> will be a similar lesson for bikes. I just got it a bit sooner.
And non-painfully. I think both you and I were gifted in that
sense. Put the fear of God into us.
> Also, thank you especially Adam. You've constantly given thoughtful and
> helpful replys both on this thread and to the group in general.
Hey, I appreciate that. Thanks. I have my bad days, some things
get to me, and I'm not always as sweetly smiling in my replies as I
might be at my shop. I like to think that I do more good than bad.
> I honestly
> wouldn't be surprised if the things I've learned from you and continue to
> learn save my life some day.
I hope it never comes to that, but if I can offer something of use
that keeps someone alive, I'm all for it.
Reed Kennedy
news:8v5ce9$o4e$1...@nntp1.ba.best.com...
>
> Ricardo Cabra <ric...@newton.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
> news:3A15BDD3...@newton.berkeley.edu...
> > Hi,
> > It's never happened to me, but I've been told that a broken rib is
> extremely
> > painful.
> >
>
> Get an X-ray. If you have a cracked rib, it may not be too painful, and
> they won't do anything about it anyway. But if you have a broken rib,
which
> is unlikely, as you would feel sharp pain upon sitting up in bed, turning,
> lifting milk out of the fridge, etc. you should have it checked. Actualy
> broken ribs can do nasty things like puncture lungs, or tear surrounding
> muscle. In that case they will put a wrap around you to keep you from
> breathing too deeply and to remind you to take it easy. However, this can
> lead to pneumonia in some people, so it isn't favored. I've busted my
ribs
> in several different ways (some on motorcycles, and some not) and to
> differing degrees over the years, and based upon your report, I would
> suspect that you've bruised your ribs, but an x-ray will tell you for
sure.
The chest has cleared up remarkably, and I'm really not worried about it
anymore. I think I just hit either the tank or one of the handlebars when
the bike went down. OTOH, my hip (first bit of me to hit the ground) has
gotten more and more uncomfortable, but that's somewhat to be expected, as I
was sitting in a chair at work all day, rather than keeping it moving. I've
got a huge welt there, but it's well below the joint, so I think it's just a
bunch of bruised tissue rather than anything serious. I'll probably be
hobbleing around for a couple days, but that's all. Keys go in the tank bag
or backpack from now on.
> Oh, and let me add my name to the list of people telling you two things:
>
> 1. Do not take a passenger anywhere until you've been accident free for
> 5,000 plus miles.
Good call. I'm planning on it. The person I've ridden pillion with in the
past treated it as a bit of an afterthought (though he did provide gear for
me). I had no idea what a serious endevor it was, but then that's why I
read and post to these groups.
> 2. Get your license through MSF. It will save you lots more down time.
I've gotta. I'm only 20, so I'd either have to wait untill my next birthday
(May) or take MSF. And I want to take MSF anyway. I signed up for it
before I knew which bike I wanted, or even knew when I wanted to start
riding for sure, but I'm still waiting. I emphasize that this accident
_was_my_fault_ for not waiting for the MSF course, but I wonder how many
people get into accidents under similar circumstances, riding while waiting
to take the hideously backloged course. I wanted to take the course first,
but was impatcient and made a bad choice. I wish they'd start running extra
courses when they get this far behind.
> And by the way, the Cyclone turns out to be a fortunate choice-- at least
> you were sitting fairly upright, which is good for leverage-- and you
don't
> have a lot of very expensive plastic to replace.
The posture was one of my favorite features of the Cyclone. One of my
requirements for a bike was that it be naked, both because I like the way it
looks, and because I don't feel like buying all sorts of new plastic. I've
heard many people say "There's two kinds of bikers: The ones who've gone
down, and the ones that will." I guess I just got it out of the way early.
At the same time, if I have managed to compress the tank and the frame as
well as all the little parts, I may well have created a case study in how to
total a bike at 20mph.
> All in all, your choice of protective gear, and some luck, allowed this to
> turn out o.k. And the fact that you're not quitting, but rather looking
to
> learn for the future is an indication that you just might be "a
> motorcyclist" at heart.
It's funny. For the hour after the accident I was actually more excited
about motorcycling than before I went down, but that could have been the
adreniline. I'm pretty sure I was terribly excited about everything right
then. After that hour, I came down off the shock / adreniline high _and_
was told that the bike might need a new frame at the same time. As I
thought about the idea of paying insurance as a 20 year old male with a
couple speeding tickets and a major insurance claim on top of that, I
concidered hanging up the helmet and buying a car for about 15 minutes.
Then I remembered the way it felt to just sit on the bike at a stand-still,
and the way it felt to ride it even for the breif amount of time that I'd
been able to, even with my admitantly lacking skills, and thought of how
much I had left to do and learn. And I decided there wasn't any way I was
going to let that be taken away from me. I'll clip coupons to pay for
insurance if I have to.
That may be a tad over dramatic, but it's fairly accurate.
I can't wait to get it back and learn to ride a bit more rationally.
Thanks to all,
Reed.
Derek
> I checked into this, and that source suggested 2-6 months. I was hoping I'd
> be ready, but I obviously wouldn't have invited her to ride with me if I
> didn't feel I was ready. I have to admit I'm a bit disapointed that I'll
> But yes, I did think ahead and have a bunch of spare stuff for her to wear.
> I have a spare leather jacket and gloves, and was going to buy her a helmet.
FWIW, I waited ~10 months and ~10k miles before I had my first
passenger, and things went fine.
In the first 5k miles I had a number of close calls that came
from not properly appreciating the power of my motorcycle (a
VFR800), so I'm glad I waited. It would've been much more
convenient for me to not have, but I did wait, and it was worth
it. [1]
>> Take her in the car, dude. Better your combined safety, and no
>> regrets.
> No car... It was bike or car, not both. Even if I could buy both, I
> couldn't insure both.
I had nothing other than a bike for a while. Made me fully
appreciate a steel cage with a buit-in heater. :)
[1] My second trip out with a passenger, I was going from 17N->85N,
and it's a decreasing radius, downhill turn. My passenger threw
her wait to the inside of the turn right at the tightest part.
If I hadn't had the experience I had, we would've gone down right
there. Fortunately, I had the presence of mind to recall Moike's
teachings; I snapped my head back and stunned my passenger by
bashing her helmet with mine, and threw my body weight to the
outside of the turn to compensate for her attempt at killing us.
--
Derek
Tilman Göttke
> Countersteering: I've had some people swear it's the most important thing
> in the proverbial book, and others say it's not really worth it, and it's
> only for race tracks. What do you guys think? How important is it? When
> should I learn it?
>
first bicycle. The issue about countersteering is to learn to do it
consciously before you forget about it again.
To see the difference: Get on a *bicycle* and try to steer with your hands
off the bar. You can change your heading only gradually by leaning in the
direction you want to go.
Now put just the index finger of your right hand on the bar when going
straight. Push your finger gently forward turning the front wheel to the
*left*. What happens? The center of gravity is now *right* of the line
between the contact patches of the tires and the road. The bike starts to
tip over to the *right*. If you take the finger off the bar again you will
continue to ride a large right circle. That's all: Turning the bar to the
left makes the bike turn right -> countersteering. When you continue the big
*right* circle, consciously turn the bar further to the *right*. What
happens? The bicycle immediately stands up and continues a straight line. In
traffic, you will cross the double yellow line and hit the MAG truck. Game
over.
I can't imagine there is any biker who does not use countersteering, i.e.
steers without input to the bar. But many bikers do that subconsciously and
claim that they do not countersteer and that this technique is racetrack
stuff only: *bullshit*
The important thing for a good motorcycling technique is to *choose* the
very
*point* where you provide the appropriate amount of steering input and avoid
any further steering input during the turn. Again, practice on a bicycle
first, perhaps on a parking lot. Hold the bar gently, ride up to an
imaginary turn, push the bar to the left/right, continue through the
turn without further steering input. Bicycle training for countersteering
may appear a bit strange but you don't have to deal with all the bike
controls and you can fully concentrate on the steering aspect.
Back on the bike, start conscious countersteering with a deliberately chosen
turn-in point on a wide deserted road. You will find that this technique
caters for quick and precise turning. The initial risk is that you will be
so surprised how well your bike turns that you run off the road to the
inside of a right turn or pass the double yellow in a left turn. So:
practice with care. You know that you are doing it right when the bike rails
around the corners without any further steering or throttle input.
The next thing to learn is to corner at a steady throttle, that is: choose
your turn entry speed with brakes/throttle and after the turn-in point keep
the speed constant until you decide to accelerate again. Sounds terribly
difficult and confusing, but it is very worthwhile esp. on a large
displacement V2 with heavy engine braking (see my sigline, I know what I'm
talking about).
Get a copy of Keith Code's "Twist of the wrist (volume *2*)". 99+ % applies
to road riding as well as to track riding. Don't try to learn/do everything
at the same time but regularly go back to the book.
It is much harder to unlearn bad practices that to learn it right in the
first place.
The most fundamental rule: keep the shiny side up, and the rubber side
down!!!
Peter Ingason
> > Go to http://www.egroups.com/groups/ZR_Riders and join. They should
> > be able to tell you as much as any group can. I posted in the
> > archive there a great review of the ZR-7.
Again, I feel this is *far* to much of a bike for a newbie... I would say so
for something like a GS500 or a Ninja 500R but I get the impression that I
am seemilgly the only person who has this view point...
> One to many 's's. I found it though.
> http://www.egroups.com/group/ZR_Riders
> for anyone else who's interested. It doesn't show an archive for that
> group, could you mail me your review (cor...@NOCAPSmail.com)? Or did you
> mean the R.M.R reviews page? If they total the bike, I may have to decide
> if I would buy the same one over again. Hopefully I won't have to make
this
> desicion, but if they do have to replace the frame, that's $3,000 on a
bike
> I only paid $6,500 for, and there's a bunch more to fix...
If the frame is bent, it would not suprise me is the insurance company
decide to just write the bike off... If a frame is 3K, then the cost of that
and the other bits and labour will easily push it up towards the purchace
price. At that point, it becomes uneconomical to repair it and cheaper so
scrap it.
>
> > > Also, thank you especially Adam. You've constantly given thoughtful
and
> > > helpful replys both on this thread and to the group in general.
> >
> > Hey, I appreciate that. Thanks. I have my bad days, some things
> > get to me, and I'm not always as sweetly smiling in my replies as I
> > might be at my shop. I like to think that I do more good than bad.
>
> We all do. Especially the way this group goes. Where are you again?
Once
> I get my wheels back under me and some good experiance, I plan to ride all
> over, and I'd love to stop in and say hi at your shop if / when I end up
in
> your area.
>
> One more random question: In Britan, you aren't allowed to have more than
a
> certain number of HP untill a certain age, so they install restricter
plates
> in bikes which are a bit to powerful. If I remember correctly, they do a
> similar thing on smaller NASCAR circuits. Is there any chance I could
have
> something like this built for my bike to keep the power down untill I get
> used to it? Would it dammage the bike? I'd be more than happy with about
> half the power it has now.
In Britain, if you apply for a full bike licence and are under 21 years of
age you are restricted to a bike with a maximum of 33bhp for 2 years after
you have passed the test. You could probably get a restrictor kit for yours
but then you would have been better off getting something like a 500cc bike
than strangling a 1200cc one. It doesnt damage the bike, it just reduces the
power to 33bhp. I dont know if you can get a restrictor kit for that bike
though.
IMO, I would not have gone near the Buell, or recomennded it to a newbie as
a first bike - nor the BMW 1200C!! Although is has (only) 91bhp the V-Twin
configuratuion and large capacity means that it makes more torque lower down
the rev range than say, a 600cc 4 cylinder one. You can have a lot more fun,
and learn a lot more, on something like a GS500 for example but you made
your choice and, as it is on finance, will be paying for it for the next
couple of years so the best thing to do is to get some proper training
before going out on it again.
I had a GS500 for a year before moving up to a Yamaha FZS600 Fazer - a bike
that is not sold in the US but is based on the YZF600R - and the difference
between the two is like night and day. Although the Fazer is recommended for
newbies, I am glad that I did the year on the GS500 first to get the road
sence and the general 'feel' of a bike before moving on to something with a
little more power.
I am not being negative - and hindsight is a wonderful thing - but whoever
recommended the Buell to you - and the dealer for letting you buy it - is
wrong IMO. The Buell is a great bike but you *do* need to know what you are
doing as its 'characteristics' can kill in the wrong hands.
--
Peter
'00 FZS600 Fazer
Peter Ingason
news:8v5590$po72$2...@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu...
> Reed,
>
> Thanks for an entertaining and informative post. You've got alot of
replies
> to read, but as another newbie (who bought a secondhand 250 Night Hawk so
he
> won't cry when he does what you did) I just wanted to say thanks for the
> post!
>
> Also, thanks for throwing in that bit about feeling "poseurish" in the
> leathers. I, too, have to convince myself to get the proper safety gear,
> even if it is just a commute bike at this point...
>
in the US. In the UK, the majority of the bikers wear leathers so it is
accepted as the norm.
BTW, it may just be a 'commute' bike but there is a higher chance of having
an accident in traffic - mainly down to all the idiots in the cages around
you - so wearing the right kit should be an essential rather than something
you need to 'convince' yourself to do. It only takes one accident - as
highlighted here - to prove the worth of wearing the right kit. At 20mph, I
doubt there would be very much left of Reeds skin had he been riding in
jeans and a t-shirt (for example).
Some Guy on a Bike
<Cor...@NOEVILSHEEPmail.com> wrote:
>> Go to http://www.egroups.com/groups/ZR_Riders and join. They should
>> be able to tell you as much as any group can. I posted in the
>> archive there a great review of the ZR-7.
> One to many 's's. I found it though.
> http://www.egroups.com/group/ZR_Riders
Whoops, sorry. I'm taking a break from there, so I don't have it
bookmarked any more.
> for anyone else who's interested. It doesn't show an archive for that
> group, could you mail me your review (cor...@NOCAPSmail.com)?
It's in the posts section, but you have to join the group to see any
of the stuff. You can set it so it won't email you anything, and
you can unjoin any time you like.
> If they total the bike, I may have to decide
> if I would buy the same one over again.
If the frame is bent, they likely WILL total it. A smaller standard
will have lower insurance costs, too.
> Hopefully I won't have to make this
> desicion, but if they do have to replace the frame, that's $3,000 on a bike
> I only paid $6,500 for, and there's a bunch more to fix...
And the bike is now used, and therefore worth at least $1300 or so
less than you paid for it... Is it a Y2K model?
NADA guide says:
Low Retail: $5,410
Average Retail: $7,115
High Retail: $7,545
They don't show trade-in values online, though. High trade is what
most insurance companies seem to use for value. Looks like high
trade might be close to low retail in this case, though. So you'll
probably end up keeping the bike, unless that gas tank is mondo
expensive.
>>> Also, thank you especially Adam. You've constantly given thoughtful and
>>> helpful replys both on this thread and to the group in general.
>> Hey, I appreciate that. Thanks. I have my bad days, some things
>> get to me, and I'm not always as sweetly smiling in my replies as I
>> might be at my shop. I like to think that I do more good than bad.
> We all do. Especially the way this group goes. Where are you again?
Right now, Ithaca, NY. That may change at some point, though. Stay
tuned.
> Once
> I get my wheels back under me and some good experiance, I plan to ride all
> over, and I'd love to stop in and say hi at your shop if / when I end up in
> your area.
Cool. I look forward to that!
> One more random question: In Britan, you aren't allowed to have more than a
> certain number of HP untill a certain age, so they install restricter plates
> in bikes which are a bit to powerful. If I remember correctly, they do a
> similar thing on smaller NASCAR circuits. Is there any chance I could have
> something like this built for my bike to keep the power down untill I get
> used to it?
That's certainly a possibility. I can't vouch for how well the bike
would run like that, though.
> Would it dammage the bike?
No. If the jetting was adjusted accordingly, it wouldn't foul plugs
or anything.
> I'd be more than happy with about
> half the power it has now.
Might be something to look into. Try asking in uk.rec.motorcycles,
but I honestly don't know how many Buells are over that side of the
pond.
>> I hope it never comes to that, but if I can offer something of use
>> that keeps someone alive, I'm all for it.
> Well, not to sound ungrateful, but I'm hopeing that I'll just do something
> the way you said rather than the way I might have otherwise, and not even
> get into the trouble.
Learning from the mistakes of others is the best way.
Unfortunately, there's no good way to describe what it's like and
what to do in real-world events on a bike. You do the best you can,
and hope that it becomes apparent to the listener.
> So I wouldn't even know my life had been saved. It's
> not as dramatic, but it's much easier on the heart.
Agreed. I know, even though I don't really know you, were I to read
about your serious injury or death, it would still hit me pretty
hard. And frankly, I like ya. I;{>
Tilman Göttke
> One more random question: In Britan, you aren't allowed to have more than
a
> certain number of HP untill a certain age, so they install restricter
plates
> in bikes which are a bit to powerful. If I remember correctly, they do a
> similar thing on smaller NASCAR circuits. Is there any chance I could
have
> something like this built for my bike to keep the power down untill I get
> half the power it has now.
>
for the first 2 years if you are under 25 years old. Power reduction kits
are available for a whole bunch of bikes. To find advice for your Buell, ask
de.rec.motorrad. Don't worry about writing in English. The power reducation
kits won't damage your bike.
Some Guy on a Bike
<Cor...@IATEABABYmail.com> wrote:
> I wish they'd start running extra
> courses when they get this far behind.
Two problems: A) It's difficult to find places that have enough
clear, flat paved area for the course AND are willing to allow it to
be hosted there (liability looms in the minds of most people), and
B) There is a HUGE shortage of instructors.
Allow me to encourage anyone who has the time, experience and
willingness, to sign up to take the MSF IP (Instructor Program) and
become an instructor. You may save a life, and you can help newbies
break into the sport you love so much.
> The posture was one of my favorite features of the Cyclone. One of my
> requirements for a bike was that it be naked, both because I like the way it
> looks, and because I don't feel like buying all sorts of new plastic. I've
> heard many people say "There's two kinds of bikers: The ones who've gone
> down, and the ones that will." I guess I just got it out of the way early.
> At the same time, if I have managed to compress the tank and the frame as
> well as all the little parts, I may well have created a case study in how to
> total a bike at 20mph.
Standards are my favorite bikes, for many of the same reasons you
like 'em.
And if you have totaled your bike, this will be an object lesson in
just how much kinetic energy a 400+ lb. object has at 20 mph, and
just how hard a city bus can be, much less a Jersey barrier or a
piece of Armco.
> As I
> thought about the idea of paying insurance as a 20 year old male with a
> couple speeding tickets and a major insurance claim on top of that, I
> concidered hanging up the helmet and buying a car for about 15 minutes.
After my first major accident, I almost hung up my helmet, too. I'd
been riding two weeks. I had a brand-new baby at home. And
frankly, I'd scared myself.
I was a much more conservative rider after that, and much more aware
of my limits. I might have been able to develop more quickly than I
did, but better taking too long than trying to push it too quickly.
I loved bikes, and I loved riding. So I got back on. I've never
regretted that choice, and hopefully, I never will.
> Then I remembered the way it felt to just sit on the bike at a stand-still,
> and the way it felt to ride it even for the breif amount of time that I'd
> been able to, even with my admitantly lacking skills, and thought of how
> much I had left to do and learn. And I decided there wasn't any way I was
> going to let that be taken away from me. I'll clip coupons to pay for
> insurance if I have to.
You go, brothah! Welcome to the "club". Sounds like you're a biker
for life. I can empathize, man.
> I can't wait to get it back and learn to ride a bit more rationally.
Good for you. I look forward to chatting with you, here and
elsewhere, 20+ years from now!
Nicholas Weaver
Peter Ingason <peter_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > Go to http://www.egroups.com/groups/ZR_Riders and join. They should
>> > be able to tell you as much as any group can. I posted in the
>> > archive there a great review of the ZR-7.
>
>for something like a GS500 or a Ninja 500R but I get the impression that I
>am seemilgly the only person who has this view point...
No, I'm also a believer in low displacement bikes. Heck, I bought an
EX500 for myself, precisely because of the time I spent looking at
various bikes etc. I will probably keep it even after I'm earning
real money and can afford a larger bike, because it is just nice,
light, and narrow. Now only if Corbin made a set of beetle bags for
it...
But, given a choice and given his criteria (something suitable for
distance touring, occasional passanger riding), the ZR-7 comes a lot
closer than the Buell, at least. Although, specification wise, I'd be
tempted to include the OLD generation 600s, namely the Bandit, Katana,
and POSSIBLY the ZX-6 in that class. They may get more power than the
ZR-7, but with somewhat less displacement and low end.
There are TWO problems with large bikes and beginners: lack of new
rider restraint, where the total horsepower can get one into real
trouble, really quickly. And a lot of LOW END power, so the bike is
twitchy to throttle response at low RPM. That is likely what bit Reed.
I suspect that, after this, Reed will be showing a great deal of
restraint on any future bike, so the former isn't as much of a
concern. :)
Power wise, the buell is not that hot, especially for such a big
engine. The M2 claims 90HP at the crank, so it probably gets 80-85 at
the rear wheel, mostly because of a rather patetic-for-quasi-sportbike
redline. But at 3000 RPM, cruising in traffic, that thing has a LOT
of power.
At least with the ZR-7, which gets a wee bit over 65 HP at the rear
wheel, won't nearly be as twitchy at low RPM.
>> desicion, but if they do have to replace the frame, that's $3,000
>> on a bike I only paid $6,500 for, and there's a bunch more to
>> fix...
>If the frame is bent, it would not suprise me is the insurance
>company decide to just write the bike off... If a frame is 3K, then
>the cost of that and the other bits and labour will easily push it up
>towards the purchace price. At that point, it becomes uneconomical to
>repair it and cheaper so scrap it.
I hate to say it, but this might be the BEST possible scenairo.
You basically come out of it a wash (it is enough damage that it WILL
go on your driving record and affect your insurance, whether or not
you make a claim, because of the DMV form you are supposed to fill
out), but with a lot more experience.
Then, Reed Kennedy could by a nice, used, low displacement bike
(GS500, EX500, Bandit 600), save his geek-software-engineer money,
and, in a year or two, buy the bike of his dreams.
Oh, Reed, if you want to sit on an EX500 to see how the ergonomics
fit, I can drive on down and toss it up on the centerstand. (No
offense, but I don't let anyone else drive my baby. :)
>I had a GS500 for a year before moving up to a Yamaha FZS600 Fazer -
>a bike that is not sold in the US but is based on the YZF600R - and
>the difference between the two is like night and day. Although the
>Fazer is recommended for newbies, I am glad that I did the year on
>the GS500 first to get the road sence and the general 'feel' of a
>bike before moving on to something with a little more power.
Why does Europe get so many nifty bikes, especially the 600 variants?
You get so many 600 variants, the FZS600, the Hornet, etc, which don't
make it to the states. In the non-plastic 600 category, we just get
the Bandit.
Nicholas Weaver
Nicholas Weaver <nwe...@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>trouble, really quickly. And a lot of LOW END power, so the bike is
>twitchy to throttle response at low RPM. That is likely what bit Reed.
This also suggests that a restrictor which acts by limiting the
redline to reduce power would be useless on a bike of this
displacement. Lets restrict the bikes to 50 HP, which easily enough
for plenty of highway driving, accelerating away from obsticals, etc.
On a 600 supersport, eg a CBR600-F4, if you just ajust the rev limiter
to kick in at 7k RPM or so, the engine will be easily limited to 50hp.
On a M2 cyclone, you would have to cut the RPMs at 4k RPM. And this
STILL means the bike will be twitchy on the throttle at 3k RPM, where
it can still be producing 40 hp.
(Based on dyno charts
Here: http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcdaily00/00cbrf4dyno.html
Here: http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcbuell/mcphotos/99cyclone-dyno.html
I really wish all manufacturers would follow Ducati's lead and post
dyno runs for their bikes on the web page, it gives a lot more useful
information then just stating peak horsepower.
Peter Ingason
news:8v6itp$hd2$1...@agate.berkeley.edu...
> In article <8v6eko$3k4hf$1...@ID-19271.news.dfncis.de>,
> Peter Ingason <peter_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> > be able to tell you as much as any group can. I posted in the
> >> > archive there a great review of the ZR-7.
> >
so
> >for something like a GS500 or a Ninja 500R but I get the impression that
I
> >am seemilgly the only person who has this view point...
>
> No, I'm also a believer in low displacement bikes. Heck, I bought an
> EX500 for myself, precisely because of the time I spent looking at
> various bikes etc. I will probably keep it even after I'm earning
> real money and can afford a larger bike, because it is just nice,
> light, and narrow. Now only if Corbin made a set of beetle bags for
> it...
I nearly bought one of them myself but the training school used GS500s so I
bought one of them as I was famuiliar with the bike..
>
> But, given a choice and given his criteria (something suitable for
> distance touring, occasional passanger riding), the ZR-7 comes a lot
> closer than the Buell, at least. Although, specification wise, I'd be
> tempted to include the OLD generation 600s, namely the Bandit, Katana,
> and POSSIBLY the ZX-6 in that class. They may get more power than the
> ZR-7, but with somewhat less displacement and low end.
Yes, the ZR-7 is closer but I think the Bandit 600 is closer still. Many
first time riders choose one of these in the UK.
>
> There are TWO problems with large bikes and beginners: lack of new
> rider restraint, where the total horsepower can get one into real
> trouble, really quickly. And a lot of LOW END power, so the bike is
> twitchy to throttle response at low RPM. That is likely what bit Reed.
>
> I suspect that, after this, Reed will be showing a great deal of
> restraint on any future bike, so the former isn't as much of a
> concern. :)
>
> Power wise, the buell is not that hot, especially for such a big
> engine. The M2 claims 90HP at the crank, so it probably gets 80-85 at
> the rear wheel, mostly because of a rather patetic-for-quasi-sportbike
> redline. But at 3000 RPM, cruising in traffic, that thing has a LOT
> of power.
Yes, although the Buell engine is not that 'stressed' it has a bit of a
reputation of a 'hooligans' bike over here as it is so easy to pop a wheelie
due to the high torque - and, conversly, lock a back wheel on a hard
downshift (a nice suprise for a newbie). Its a great bike if you like that
sort of thing and know how to handle it properly. At the end of the day,
IMO, torque has more influence on the characteristics of the bike than
outright power. The Buell is - relatively - low power but high torque. As
you say, that is what caught Reed out...
>
> At least with the ZR-7, which gets a wee bit over 65 HP at the rear
> wheel, won't nearly be as twitchy at low RPM.
>
True, I'd imagine that a ZR-7 would be fairly 'docile' at a low RPM. Mine
doesnt really do anything till 7K RPM but after that is really *shifts*.
> >> desicion, but if they do have to replace the frame, that's $3,000
> >> on a bike I only paid $6,500 for, and there's a bunch more to
> >> fix...
>
> >If the frame is bent, it would not suprise me is the insurance
> >company decide to just write the bike off... If a frame is 3K, then
> >the cost of that and the other bits and labour will easily push it up
> >towards the purchace price. At that point, it becomes uneconomical to
> >repair it and cheaper so scrap it.
>
> I hate to say it, but this might be the BEST possible scenairo.
>
> You basically come out of it a wash (it is enough damage that it WILL
> go on your driving record and affect your insurance, whether or not
> you make a claim, because of the DMV form you are supposed to fill
> out), but with a lot more experience.
>
> Then, Reed Kennedy could by a nice, used, low displacement bike
> (GS500, EX500, Bandit 600), save his geek-software-engineer money,
> and, in a year or two, buy the bike of his dreams.
>
> Oh, Reed, if you want to sit on an EX500 to see how the ergonomics
> fit, I can drive on down and toss it up on the centerstand. (No
> offense, but I don't let anyone else drive my baby. :)
I dont know how insurance works in the US, but if they end up giving you a
cheque - instead of a straight replacement - I would look for a cheaper bike
and use the rest to pay for the increased insurance etc.
> >I had a GS500 for a year before moving up to a Yamaha FZS600 Fazer -
> >a bike that is not sold in the US but is based on the YZF600R - and
> >the difference between the two is like night and day. Although the
> >Fazer is recommended for newbies, I am glad that I did the year on
> >the GS500 first to get the road sence and the general 'feel' of a
> >bike before moving on to something with a little more power.
>
> Why does Europe get so many nifty bikes, especially the 600 variants?
> You get so many 600 variants, the FZS600, the Hornet, etc, which don't
> make it to the states. In the non-plastic 600 category, we just get
> the Bandit.
I have noticed that to. The US seems to get a really limited number of bikes
compared to the UK. The FZS600 and Hornet are basically parts bin specials
using bits off of bikes that are already sold in the US so I dont know why
they cant be shipped over there. At least Yamaha gave you the FZ1 so it may
change its mind and bring in a few more if it sells well...
mmnnoo
"Reed Kennedy" <Cor...@NOEVILSHEEPmail.com> wrote in message
> > Noooooooooo!
>
> Hey, that's my line...
>
> > That's about how I felt when my first motorcycle was stolen
> > 3 weeks after I got it.
>
Nope.
<snip>
> In addition to that, it's nice to have the sympathy and get-well-soons of
> people who really understand. Most of the car drivers I've talked to have
> reacted more or less "that sucks, you lost transportation", but people on
> the groups know it's more than that.
<snip>
It's how a 9 year old would feel getting a lump of coal instead of a pony
for christmas.
Reed Kennedy
> Now put just the index finger of your right hand on the bar when going
> straight. Push your finger gently forward turning the front wheel to the
> *left*. What happens? The center of gravity is now *right* of the line
> between the contact patches of the tires and the road. The bike starts to
> tip over to the *right*. If you take the finger off the bar again you will
> continue to ride a large right circle. That's all: Turning the bar to the
> left makes the bike turn right -> countersteering. When you continue the
big
> *right* circle, consciously turn the bar further to the *right*. What
> happens? The bicycle immediately stands up and continues a straight line.
In
> traffic, you will cross the double yellow line and hit the MAG truck. Game
> over.
Thanks. That seems like a very usable way of teaching myself how to
countersteer, and one of the more approachable methods I've heard of so far.
I think I'll have a while yet to practice on my bicycle before I get my
Buell back. I'd played with countersteering on the bicycle a little bit,
but it just didn't -feel- right, and I could generally get the bike where I
wanted it to go the old-fasioned way, so I gave up on it as an advanced
thing. Now that I know how important it is, I'll get right on it.
> I can't imagine there is any biker who does not use countersteering, i.e.
> steers without input to the bar. But many bikers do that subconsciously
and
> claim that they do not countersteer and that this technique is racetrack
> stuff only: *bullshit*
Apparently. This is why I'm very glad I ask more than one person about this
type of thing. Of course, I could have avoided all of this by just waiting
for the damn MSF course. Do they do countersteering in their beginer
course?
> Back on the bike, start conscious countersteering with a deliberately
chosen
> turn-in point on a wide deserted road. You will find that this technique
> caters for quick and precise turning. The initial risk is that you will be
> so surprised how well your bike turns that you run off the road to the
> inside of a right turn or pass the double yellow in a left turn. So:
> practice with care. You know that you are doing it right when the bike
rails
> around the corners without any further steering or throttle input.
I think I'll practice a bunch in parking lots before I go out on back roads,
even. Will countersteering work ok at empty parking lot speeds?
> The next thing to learn is to corner at a steady throttle, that is: choose
> your turn entry speed with brakes/throttle and after the turn-in point
keep
> the speed constant until you decide to accelerate again. Sounds terribly
> difficult and confusing, but it is very worthwhile esp. on a large
> displacement V2 with heavy engine braking (see my sigline, I know what I'm
> talking about).
Well, I grew up in Boondocks, NY, and used to thrash my cars up and down
mountain roads, so while I'm sure it's very different in practice for bikes,
and you have a whole lot more choices of where to be on the road, I have
some idea of how important it is and how the basic physics work.
> Get a copy of Keith Code's "Twist of the wrist (volume *2*)". 99+ %
applies
> to road riding as well as to track riding. Don't try to learn/do
everything
> at the same time but regularly go back to the book.
Something else I've been wondering about. You don't have to read TOTW 1
before you pick up 2? I've been looking in bookstores, but I couldn't find
the first one, and didn't think I should start with the second. This isn't
the case?
> It is much harder to unlearn bad practices that to learn it right in the
> first place.
Good point. I guess learning everything twice (once wrong, once right)
wouldn't really do me any good, would it...
Thanks,
Reed Kennedy
> of the stuff. You can set it so it won't email you anything, and
> you can unjoin any time you like.
Great. Got in now, and I'm looking around for the review.
> > If they total the bike, I may have to decide
> > if I would buy the same one over again.
>
> If the frame is bent, they likely WILL total it. A smaller standard
> will have lower insurance costs, too.
If I end up going with a smaller standard, it'll probably be a Honda
Nighthawk. The GS500E, Seca II and Nighthawk were all on my list of bikes I
would have bought used, and the Nighthawk was my favorite, although it
tended to be a bit more expensive for newer ones. Does that sound sensible?
> > Hopefully I won't have to make this
> > desicion, but if they do have to replace the frame, that's $3,000 on a
bike
> > I only paid $6,500 for, and there's a bunch more to fix...
>
> And the bike is now used, and therefore worth at least $1300 or so
> less than you paid for it... Is it a Y2K model?
Yep. One of the last 2000s the shop got. On a interesting side note, it's
kind of a 2000 1/2, because it uses the 2001 rear suspension rather than the
99/00 stuff that was recalled. I paid $6500, but I've seen 99's go for only
a bit less on the private market, so I don't think the price is down to
$5200 yet.
> NADA guide says:
>
> Low Retail: $5,410
> Average Retail: $7,115
> High Retail: $7,545
>
> They don't show trade-in values online, though. High trade is what
> most insurance companies seem to use for value. Looks like high
> trade might be close to low retail in this case, though. So you'll
> probably end up keeping the bike, unless that gas tank is mondo
> expensive.
Problem is, my shop takes $85 per hour in labor. The frame goes for $1000,
but installation of it alone is $2000. I think the tank is about $400, and
then I have to get a new shift lever, new break levers, new rear signal,
etc... It'll probably not get totaled, but it may be right on the edge if
the frame is gone. OTOH, if the frame is fine and the tank is fine, it's
just little bits on the outside and I can afford fixing that out of pocket
without getting hammered on insurance. It's terribly frustrating, really.
> > We all do. Especially the way this group goes. Where are you again?
>
> Right now, Ithaca, NY. That may change at some point, though. Stay
> tuned.
Huh, I just moved away from that general neck of the woods. I lived outside
Albany, and went to college in Oneonta, NY. Do you know anything about
renting bikes in the general upstate area? Does anyone do it? I want to
rent one in a year or two when I visit my family durring the summer. Also,
if you're thinking about moving about, I have to say that the NorCal area is
pretty great... As long as you can find a place to live.
> > I'd be more than happy with about
> > half the power it has now.
>
> Might be something to look into. Try asking in uk.rec.motorcycles,
> but I honestly don't know how many Buells are over that side of the
> pond.
Thanks, I'll ask there. I know they have a couple, but I don't know if
anyone's tried restricting them.
> > So I wouldn't even know my life had been saved. It's
> > not as dramatic, but it's much easier on the heart.
>
> Agreed. I know, even though I don't really know you, were I to read
> about your serious injury or death, it would still hit me pretty
> hard. And frankly, I like ya. I;{>
Don't worry. Before I bought the bike I had to promise a bunch of people
I'd do my very best to stay alive, and one of them was me. That's a big
part of the reason I posted my screwup here in order to gain as much as I
could from it. I'm gonna do my best to stick around, for better for worse,
for quite some time. Otherwise, when some newbie posts some dumb mistake in
20 years, I won't be able to say "That happened to me once, on an ancient
Buell... They have them in mueseums now... Back then bikes only went on
the ground..."
Thanks,
Reed
'00 Buell M2 Cyclone, 23 Miles, in the shop.
Nicholas Weaver
Peter Ingason <peter_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I nearly bought one of them myself but the training school used GS500s so I
>bought one of them as I was famuiliar with the bike..
The EX is a nice bike, you see a pretty good number of them on the
road around here, although many are cosmetically damaged (I think a
combination of it being a common beginner bike, cheap, and a very long
lived model).
>Yes, although the Buell engine is not that 'stressed' it has a bit of a
>reputation of a 'hooligans' bike over here as it is so easy to pop a wheelie
>due to the high torque - and, conversly, lock a back wheel on a hard
>downshift (a nice suprise for a newbie).
Heck, I've slid the rear wheel downshifting on the EX (enough to be a
little spooky and for the bike to say "Don't DO THAT AGAIN!"), I'd
hate to think what a Buell would be like in than respect.
>Its a great bike if you like that sort of thing and know how to
>handle it properly. At the end of the day, IMO, torque has more
>influence on the characteristics of the bike than outright power. The
>Buell is - relatively - low power but high torque. As you say, that
>is what caught Reed out...
More precisely, it is the shape of the power curve dictates how the
bike will behave under various conditions. Torque has simply become
an approximation for low RPM horespower.
A current supersport 600 should be able to beat the cyclone in a race,
both on the track and probably on a drag strip, because it does have a
fair bit more power (95 vs 75 peak HP).
But with a low displacement, high revving engine, it takes a more
deliberate choice to have that power available, as there is a mugh
higher dependance on gearing, not just throttle position. You tweak a
600's throttle when you are at 3k RPM, not much will happen. You
tweak that buell, and watch out!
>True, I'd imagine that a ZR-7 would be fairly 'docile' at a low RPM. Mine
>doesnt really do anything till 7K RPM but after that is really *shifts*.
Pretty much any small displacement bike should be the same way. When
I test rode the Blast (the 500cc buell beginner bike), I found it very
tractible at low RPM, the problem is, it just hit a rev limiter at
around 7K, which meant it had lousy "I want some decent power now"
characteristics for riding on the freeway.
>> Why does Europe get so many nifty bikes, especially the 600 variants?
>> You get so many 600 variants, the FZS600, the Hornet, etc, which don't
>> make it to the states. In the non-plastic 600 category, we just get
>> the Bandit.
>
>I have noticed that to. The US seems to get a really limited number of bikes
>compared to the UK. The FZS600 and Hornet are basically parts bin specials
>using bits off of bikes that are already sold in the US so I dont know why
>they cant be shipped over there. At least Yamaha gave you the FZ1 so it may
>change its mind and bring in a few more if it sells well...
I think it is because enough people screamed "I like the R1's engine,
I hate the ergonomics" that Yamaha listened.
I think partially in the US market, there is a "Bigger is de-facto
Better" pholosophy, so there really aren't very many low displacement
bikes. There are exactly 4 500s currently sold (Kawa EX and EN500,
Suzuki GS500, Blast), and there is only one non-plastic 600 four (the
Bandit).
The only real exception to this pholosophy in the US market appears to
be the 600 supersports, which are such an active race category that
there keeps being new models, a couple previous-generation 600s
(Katana, ZX-6), and the occasional suprise like the SV650.
However, if you want a cruiser, come to the US. We have tons.
Oodles. Googles. (yet, darnit, very little innovative cruisers.
Honda seems to do the best innovation wise, with the Magna and the
Valkarie, but jeez, arent there enough cruisers on the market yet)
One other thing to consider. SOME insurance companies (eg, State Farm
I believe) base their insurance rates entirely on the bike's
displacement. Others will charge extra based on bike type.
Jim Stinnett
> I sure hope so. I bought the bike and insurance at the same time, and
they
> knew I only had a permit. Otherwise, the dealer's doing the repairs is
the
> same one that sold me the insurance, so I may have so legal recourse, but
I
> truely doubt it will come to that. They're great people there.
If they are so great then why did they launch you onto a public road totally
unprepared to face the inevitable dangers?
Sounds as if like they like your money more than they like you.
After reading this thread for a day or so, I feel that I should make my own
contribution to the avalanche of advice:
Get a mentor of some sort, someone who has been riding responsibly and
safely for a number of years, to take you under their wing. Take you time in
selecting this person and ask them if they will do this for you. This of
course in addition to getting some professional training.
Spend most of your initial riding time with that mentor, who can coach you
on the particulars of riding in each situation.
Don't try to learn everything at once. Take each phase of your learning
experience one step at a time. When you feel you have mastered one level of
skill, then move on to more complex situations.
Lastly , go slowly in taking on the experience of learning, take your time
with it and avoid peer pressure to do anything you know you can't handle.
Always ride your OWN ride.
And of course bring along some Kleenex for those times when doing the right
thing just isn't enough.
By the way I have a few resources for new riders here at:
http://www.mindspring.com/~jimstinnett/newriders.htm
jim stinnett
VTR#0631
RC31#1934
Motorcycle Information @ http://www.moto-rama.com
Last update: November 16, 2000
il motivo conduce a anarchia!
Reed Kennedy
>
> >trouble, really quickly. And a lot of LOW END power, so the bike is
> >twitchy to throttle response at low RPM. That is likely what bit Reed.
>
> redline to reduce power would be useless on a bike of this
> displacement. Lets restrict the bikes to 50 HP, which easily enough
> for plenty of highway driving, accelerating away from obsticals, etc.
>
> On a 600 supersport, eg a CBR600-F4, if you just ajust the rev limiter
> to kick in at 7k RPM or so, the engine will be easily limited to 50hp.
> On a M2 cyclone, you would have to cut the RPMs at 4k RPM. And this
> STILL means the bike will be twitchy on the throttle at 3k RPM, where
> it can still be producing 40 hp.
>
> (Based on dyno charts
> Here: http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcdaily00/00cbrf4dyno.html
> Here: http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcbuell/mcphotos/99cyclone-dyno.html
>
> I really wish all manufacturers would follow Ducati's lead and post
> dyno runs for their bikes on the web page, it gives a lot more useful
> information then just stating peak horsepower.
If I remember right, I think that a restrictor works by placing a plate in
the air intake, and then giving the bike less fuel. If you put a
free-flowing air filter on a bike and then jet it for more fuel, you get
more power. This does the exact opposite, by giving the engine less air and
less fuel. I think the rev limiter remains unchanged. I know this engine
runs at much lower figures in the HD Sportster... The sporty gets 58 rear
wheel HP using crappy "look the part" parts for the air cleaner and exhaust,
but judgeing from the chart at
http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcharley/mcphotos/cyclone.gif (wow, thats
_exactly_ what I wanted, thanks, MO) the torque remains about the same, so I
guess I'd have to restrict it fairly seriously. If you can extrapolate data
from that chart, it seems like even if I managed to restrict it down to 50
hp and 50 torque, it would devestate the high end while leaving low end
torque more or less alone, which would do absolutely nothing to solve my
problem. Apparently, it's simply a torquey bike, and I need to either learn
to deal with that safely or find something else.
We'll see what the repair estimate comes to.
Reed.
'00 Buell M2 Cyclone, 23 miles, in the shop.
Reed Kennedy
> EX500 for myself, precisely because of the time I spent looking at
> various bikes etc. I will probably keep it even after I'm earning
> real money and can afford a larger bike, because it is just nice,
> light, and narrow. Now only if Corbin made a set of beetle bags for
> it...
They've got a 'ask nicely' type form on the site where you can say how much
you'd really like it if they mad such-and-such a product. Might be worth a
shot.
> But, given a choice and given his criteria (something suitable for
> distance touring, occasional passanger riding), the ZR-7 comes a lot
> closer than the Buell, at least. Although, specification wise, I'd be
> tempted to include the OLD generation 600s, namely the Bandit, Katana,
> and POSSIBLY the ZX-6 in that class. They may get more power than the
> ZR-7, but with somewhat less displacement and low end.
>
> There are TWO problems with large bikes and beginners: lack of new
> rider restraint, where the total horsepower can get one into real
> trouble, really quickly. And a lot of LOW END power, so the bike is
> twitchy to throttle response at low RPM. That is likely what bit Reed.
>
> I suspect that, after this, Reed will be showing a great deal of
> restraint on any future bike, so the former isn't as much of a
> concern. :)
I'd like to think I was being a fairly good boy to begin with, I just
screwed up and got into one of those situations where the tigher you grab
the bars, the faster the bike goes, so you grab the bars tighter, and the
bike goes faster, etc... I'd never anticipated this sort of situation, and
at the time I was sure that the throttle was stuck and had no idea what to
do. (clutch. duh). It took me a good half hour of thinking about what
happend before I came to the conclusion that getting scared and grabbing the
bars like I did probably caused most of the problem. If I'd gone into the
rail without twisting the throttle, I may have been able to recover.
I am going to be very, very careful now.
> Power wise, the buell is not that hot, especially for such a big
> engine. The M2 claims 90HP at the crank, so it probably gets 80-85 at
> the rear wheel, mostly because of a rather patetic-for-quasi-sportbike
> redline. But at 3000 RPM, cruising in traffic, that thing has a LOT
> of power.
>
> At least with the ZR-7, which gets a wee bit over 65 HP at the rear
> wheel, won't nearly be as twitchy at low RPM.
The Buell ads brag about pulling your shoulders from the sockets. It's
really rather acurate. I'd only ever driven the cars I'd owned and ridden
breifly on a 200cc Honda and Buell Blast, so had no idea that I had to
worry about using the throttle accidentally. It had never happend in a car,
obviously, and if I did it on the Blast or CB200T, it was such a minor
problem I didn't really notice. There's a big difference between a 500cc
thumper and a 1200cc twin...
> >> desicion, but if they do have to replace the frame, that's $3,000
> >> on a bike I only paid $6,500 for, and there's a bunch more to
> >> fix...
>
> >If the frame is bent, it would not suprise me is the insurance
> >company decide to just write the bike off... If a frame is 3K, then
> >the cost of that and the other bits and labour will easily push it up
> >towards the purchace price. At that point, it becomes uneconomical to
> >repair it and cheaper so scrap it.
>
> I hate to say it, but this might be the BEST possible scenairo.
>
> You basically come out of it a wash (it is enough damage that it WILL
> go on your driving record and affect your insurance, whether or not
> you make a claim, because of the DMV form you are supposed to fill
> out), but with a lot more experience.
The Muni drivers decided I never hit the bus (which is more than ok with me)
so I haven't filled anything out quite yet. I know I was supposed to, but
just after the accident I remembered that I'd left the tank bag with my
permit in it at home, and only had my NY state driver's liscence without the
motorcycle endorsement on me. (yes, I do have a permit, yes I should have
had it on me.) So not filling out papers is fine with me. What are the
rules for reporting single vehicle accidents to the DMV?
> Then, Reed Kennedy could by a nice, used, low displacement bike
> (GS500, EX500, Bandit 600), save his geek-software-engineer money,
> and, in a year or two, buy the bike of his dreams.
Geek sure, not software engineer. Yet, anyway. I still really like those
Honda Nighthawks, I just never found one with the right price/quality ratio.
I'd probably go with one of those.
> Oh, Reed, if you want to sit on an EX500 to see how the ergonomics
> fit, I can drive on down and toss it up on the centerstand. (No
> offense, but I don't let anyone else drive my baby. :)
I don't blame you. Frankly, I'm tempted to not allow myself to ride my own
bike right now ::grin:: I haden't really looked at the EX500, and I'd like
to see how it feels, and it's be great to meet you too, Nick.
Thanks,
Reed
'00 Buell M2 Cyclone, 23 Miles, in the shop.
Some Guy on a Bike
<Cor...@IATEABABYmail.com> wrote:
> If I end up going with a smaller standard, it'll probably be a Honda
> Nighthawk.
Now, I don't mean to be a naysayer, but the CB750 Nighthawk has only
one thing on the ZR-7 -- hydraulic valve lifters. Thus, no valve
adjustment. The ZR-7 has better suspension, factory hard bags
available, bigger and better tires (comes with radials), better
suspension, and better brakes. You won't dive the nose into the
ground under heavy braking like you will on the Nighthawk. I also
find the ZR-7 more attractive, and for 2001 it has a half-fairing,
so some guys with Y2K models may be selling theirs used with low
miles to buy the new one. The power of the stock ZR-7 engine isn't
much more than the Nighthwak, I don't think.
> The GS500E, Seca II and Nighthawk were all on my list of bikes I
> would have bought used, and the Nighthawk was my favorite, although it
> tended to be a bit more expensive for newer ones. Does that sound sensible?
If you want a used bike, I can't much argue with that. You might
want to look into the ZR750 Zephyr if you're buying used. Those
should be substantially cheaper than the used Nighthawk 750s that
are out there, and should handle a bit better out of the box, too.
>>> I only paid $6,500 for, and there's a bunch more to fix...
>> And the bike is now used, and therefore worth at least $1300 or so
>> less than you paid for it... Is it a Y2K model?
> Yep. One of the last 2000s the shop got. On a interesting side note, it's
> kind of a 2000 1/2, because it uses the 2001 rear suspension rather than the
> 99/00 stuff that was recalled.
I imagine the recall was to update to the '01 parts. So it's a Y2K
that got the recall, I guess?
>> NADA guide says:
>> Low Retail: $5,410
>> Average Retail: $7,115
>> High Retail: $7,545
>> They don't show trade-in values online, though. High trade is what
>> most insurance companies seem to use for value. Looks like high
>> trade might be close to low retail in this case, though. So you'll
>> probably end up keeping the bike, unless that gas tank is mondo
>> expensive.
> Problem is, my shop takes $85 per hour in labor.
YIKES!
> The frame goes for $1000,
> but installation of it alone is $2000.
Well, keep in mind the amount of labor involved in stripping a bike
completely from the frame and building it back up on a new one. I
did that once, and I'd rather not do it again...
> I think the tank is about $400,
That's pretty reasonable, IMHO.
> and
> then I have to get a new shift lever, new break levers, new rear signal,
> etc... It'll probably not get totaled, but it may be right on the edge if
> the frame is gone.
A real nail-biter, sounds like.
> OTOH, if the frame is fine and the tank is fine, it's
> just little bits on the outside and I can afford fixing that out of pocket
> without getting hammered on insurance. It's terribly frustrating, really.
I'll bet. Sit down with a wrench at the shop that did the estimate.
Talk with him. Ask him what out of the list MUST be fixed for the
safe operation of the bike, and what can be "lived with".
>> Right now, Ithaca, NY. That may change at some point, though. Stay
>> tuned.
> Huh, I just moved away from that general neck of the woods. I lived outside
> Albany, and went to college in Oneonta, NY.
Where outside of Albany? I grew up in Albany and Guilderland, and
I've lived in Troy, Waterford (gag) and Rennselaer.
> Do you know anything about
> renting bikes in the general upstate area? Does anyone do it?
I've not yet found anyone who does, but with the Adirondacks, it
would be a great business for someone.
> Also,
> if you're thinking about moving about, I have to say that the NorCal area is
> pretty great... As long as you can find a place to live.
I'd like to check that area out. Liked it when I was passing
through a decade ago.
>>> I'd be more than happy with about
>>> half the power it has now.
>> Might be something to look into. Try asking in uk.rec.motorcycles,
>> but I honestly don't know how many Buells are over that side of the
>> pond.
> Thanks, I'll ask there. I know they have a couple, but I don't know if
> anyone's tried restricting them.
Someone suggested German newsgroups, and that's a better suggestion,
I think, since there are purported to be more Buells there.
>>> So I wouldn't even know my life had been saved. It's
>>> not as dramatic, but it's much easier on the heart.
>> Agreed. I know, even though I don't really know you, were I to read
>> about your serious injury or death, it would still hit me pretty
>> hard. And frankly, I like ya. I;{>
> Don't worry. Before I bought the bike I had to promise a bunch of people
> I'd do my very best to stay alive, and one of them was me.
You have your head on straight. Adn it seems to have saved your ass
once already. Congratulate yourself! Then learn from your mistakes
and grow!
> That's a big
> part of the reason I posted my screwup here in order to gain as much as I
> could from it.
Takes a man who's not afraid of making mistakes to do that. Kudos.
> I'm gonna do my best to stick around, for better for worse,
> for quite some time. Otherwise, when some newbie posts some dumb mistake in
> 20 years, I won't be able to say "That happened to me once, on an ancient
> Buell... They have them in mueseums now... Back then bikes only went on
> the ground..."
*grins* You *go*, Grandpa!
Peter Ingason
> In article <8v6le2$3jvsv$1...@ID-19271.news.dfncis.de>,
> Peter Ingason <peter_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >I nearly bought one of them myself but the training school used GS500s so
I
> >bought one of them as I was famuiliar with the bike..
>
> road around here, although many are cosmetically damaged (I think a
> combination of it being a common beginner bike, cheap, and a very long
> lived model).
>
> >reputation of a 'hooligans' bike over here as it is so easy to pop a
wheelie
> >due to the high torque - and, conversly, lock a back wheel on a hard
> >downshift (a nice suprise for a newbie).
>
> little spooky and for the bike to say "Don't DO THAT AGAIN!"), I'd
> hate to think what a Buell would be like in than respect.
>
<snip>
> >> Why does Europe get so many nifty bikes, especially the 600 variants?
> >> You get so many 600 variants, the FZS600, the Hornet, etc, which don't
> >> make it to the states. In the non-plastic 600 category, we just get
> >> the Bandit.
> >
> >I have noticed that to. The US seems to get a really limited number of
bikes
> >compared to the UK. The FZS600 and Hornet are basically parts bin
specials
> >using bits off of bikes that are already sold in the US so I dont know
why
> >they cant be shipped over there. At least Yamaha gave you the FZ1 so it
may
> >change its mind and bring in a few more if it sells well...
>
> I think it is because enough people screamed "I like the R1's engine,
> I hate the ergonomics" that Yamaha listened.
>
> I think partially in the US market, there is a "Bigger is de-facto
> Better" pholosophy, so there really aren't very many low displacement
> bikes. There are exactly 4 500s currently sold (Kawa EX and EN500,
> Suzuki GS500, Blast), and there is only one non-plastic 600 four (the
> Bandit).
In the UK, the most common size engine for a bike is 600cc and there is a
fairly wide range of bikes with engine under 600cc as well. I guess with the
types of roads we have over here, a smaller bike is more suitable. they are
also cheaper to insure - which is a major factor when it comes to choosing
bikes over here.
> The only real exception to this pholosophy in the US market appears to
> be the 600 supersports, which are such an active race category that
> there keeps being new models, a couple previous-generation 600s
> (Katana, ZX-6), and the occasional suprise like the SV650.
The UK is supersports mad whilst Europe is crazy about enduro style bikes.
Cruisers dont really have the same appeal over here as the seem to have over
there. All the dealers stock them but only sell a handful - Yamaha recently
forced its dealers to order in a couple of their bigger cruisers as they
had been in the warehouse for ages :-)
> However, if you want a cruiser, come to the US. We have tons.
> Oodles. Googles. (yet, darnit, very little innovative cruisers.
> Honda seems to do the best innovation wise, with the Magna and the
> Valkarie, but jeez, arent there enough cruisers on the market yet)
Cruisers aren't my 'cup of tea' but yes, you do seem to have quite a few :-)
> One other thing to consider. SOME insurance companies (eg, State Farm
> I believe) base their insurance rates entirely on the bike's
> displacement. Others will charge extra based on bike type.
Over here, insurance rates are based more on bike type and rider experience
rather than the size of the engine.
--
Peter Ingason
'00 FZS600 Fazer
Reed Kennedy
news:8v6fjm$3mgt0$1...@ID-19271.news.dfncis.de...
> "Rich Lesperance" <ri...@ufl.edu> wrote in message
> news:8v5590$po72$2...@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu...
> > Reed,
> >
> > Thanks for an entertaining and informative post. You've got alot of
> replies
> > to read, but as another newbie (who bought a secondhand 250 Night Hawk
so
> he
> > won't cry when he does what you did) I just wanted to say thanks for the
> > post!
> >
> > Also, thanks for throwing in that bit about feeling "poseurish" in the
> > leathers. I, too, have to convince myself to get the proper safety gear,
> > even if it is just a commute bike at this point...
> >
> I guess there is some sort of 'stigma' attached to people who wear
leathers
> in the US. In the UK, the majority of the bikers wear leathers so it is
> accepted as the norm.
Many people wear them here, too. It seems, from my breif experiance, that
everyone thinks leathers are a good idea, but they're also somehow regarded
as something that should be earned, like a medal, by some people. As best I
can tell, the general sentiment is "you aren't a good enough rider to get
into the sort of accident where leathers would do you good, but you're
trying to look like you are". Obviously, this doesn't really make sense,
but it's more of a sort of discrimination than a well thought out viewpoint.
At the same time, leathers seem to have almost become a fasion accesory to
some degree. I'm sure I could have gotten leathers of similar quality to my
Buell branded Vansons for much, much less money, either by buying from new
enough or by going off brand. To this end, it's easy for a certain type of
person to think "the only reason you buy Vansons is because you wanna look
cool, or 'cause you were too lazy to shop around." I bought them because I
knew Vanson was good, and by buying them through Buell, I could finance them
with the bike. I'm sure I could have saved a great deal of money with other
leathers, but I knew Vansons were good even with my non-existant experiance,
and I had them when I needed them.
> BTW, it may just be a 'commute' bike but there is a higher chance of
having
> an accident in traffic - mainly down to all the idiots in the cages around
> you - so wearing the right kit should be an essential rather than
something
> you need to 'convince' yourself to do. It only takes one accident - as
> highlighted here - to prove the worth of wearing the right kit. At 20mph,
I
> doubt there would be very much left of Reeds skin had he been riding in
> jeans and a t-shirt (for example).
I can vouch for that. The biggest help this time was the gloves. Scott (my
salesman) gave me a pair of Buell's best gloves for free when I picked up
the bike, as a surprise. The had carbon-kevlar reinforcements on the
knuckles, and I thought they were kinda tacky. Now, the carbon-kevlan is
half worn through on the right glove, with one of the plates split and
almost torn off. I can only imagine how much worse it would have been if
I'd been wearing even the decent Olympia leather gloves I had originally
bought.
To anyone thinking of buying a bike, here's a bit of advice I think I'm
qualfied to give:
If you have to choose between more bike and less kit, or more kit and less
bike, spend more on the kit. If you're lucky, it will last you more than
one bike. If you aren't lucky, you won't be riding another bike without the
right equipment.
If you can afford the bike and afford the insurance, but can't afford decent
leathers, a good helmet, and quality gloves, you can't afford the bike.
Save up another month or two and stay alive.
{soapbox mode off}
Reed.
Some Guy on a Bike
<moto...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> If they are so great then why did they launch you onto a public road totally
> unprepared to face the inevitable dangers?
> Sounds as if like they like your money more than they like you.
Here's my sales approach when selling a bike: I try to get a
feeling for what a customer thinks they want. I try to get a feel
for what the customer can handle. I try to get a feel for what
would probably make the customer happiest, realistically. I
synthesize those three things and then show them what I have in that
range (or suggest other bikes they might want to look at, or send
them down the road to someone who has those bikes avaiable, at least
to look at). Sometimes the customer is adamant about something
other than what I've come up with. If they are, and they ERALLY
awnt to buy it, I will do my best to dissuade them based on my
experience and understanding (and I will explain my reasoning to
them). If they insist, and wish to buy something I don't think they
will be happy with, I'll sell it to them reluctantly. If they are
going to kill themselves on it, I'll make sure they know I don't
think it's a good idea, or safe, and that they are taking their own
chances buying such a thing. But you know what? They're adults.
I'm not their babysitter. I might say "I don't have a 996 in stock"
to an 18 year-old with no riding experience who appears to be
imprudent, but if a 40 year-old stockbroker comes in who's ridden
small bikes before and *has* to have one, well, *he* decided he had
to have one, right? Has anyone here ever refused to sell a bike
private sale to someone based on their beliefs about whether the
buyer would be safe on it?
> Get a mentor of some sort, someone who has been riding responsibly and
> safely for a number of years, to take you under their wing. Take you time in
> selecting this person and ask them if they will do this for you. This of
> course in addition to getting some professional training.
This is a damned good idea, and there are many people I know in the
Bay area who would be great for that, assuming they had the time.
Mike Solis and Steve Melander come immediately to mind, as does Rick
Damiani.
> Don't try to learn everything at once. Take each phase of your learning
> experience one step at a time. When you feel you have mastered one level of
> skill, then move on to more complex situations.
Well, life on the street ain't always so kind, but focusing on one
lesson at a time, if possible, is the best way to absorb the
content.
> Lastly , go slowly in taking on the experience of learning, take your time
> with it and avoid peer pressure to do anything you know you can't handle.
EXCELLENT advice. Thanks for saying that.
> And of course bring along some Kleenex for those times when doing the right
> thing just isn't enough.
There's a new product out, that was developed for bicyclists, but
I'd recommend it over Kleenex: http://www.bravesoldier.com
Crash Paks. Fookin' brilliant idea for every mountain group ride to
have someone with at least ONE in their tank bag.
Tilman Göttke
>little bit, but it just didn't -feel- right, and I could
Again, countersteering is the natural subconscious "old-fashioned" method of
steering any bike/bicycle. It feels strange at first when you do it
*consciously* but raising the basic mechanics of two-wheel dynamics on a
conscious level helps you understand the principles and making best use of
them.
Look at the subject from a different angle: Everyone can run, swim, throw,
jump - to a certain degree. If you want to finish the 100 meters under 11
seconds or throw a javelin more than 70 yards, you have to work very
consciously on every detail of your movements. Just ask a track and field
athlet how difficult it is to optimize a technique you have been using since
you had been a little child. Initially, when you consciously work on the
technique details instead of moving intiuitively, your performance will
significantly drop because it is a unusual activity for your cerebrum to
control tasks normally performed by your cerebellum and the other more
archaic parts of your brain. And that "doesn't feel right". You are rewarded
by a better performance plateau after you passed this performance dip and
moved the learned stuff out of the cerebellum again.
I'm not sure whether countersteering is really trained in MSF classes [1]. I
doubt so for the above reasons, because almost everyone (counter)steers
halfway correctly. There are so many things to worry about when you start
riding (you know: clutch, throttle, shift lever, turn lights, front brake,
rear brake, ...) that the MSF trainers probably try to limit the number of
things they direct the trainees' attention to.
> I think I'll practice a bunch in parking lots before
>I go out on back roads, even. Will countersteering
>work ok at empty parking lot speeds?
Countersteering "works" at any speed. You can reasonably practice it at any
speed at or above some 15mph. I guess a good practicing speed is about 25-35
mph. Fast enough to have stable bike dynamics (rotational forces) and still
slow enough to focus in on the subject.
>Something else I've been wondering about. You don't have to read TOTW 1
>before you pick up 2? I've been looking in bookstores, but I couldn't
>find the first one, and didn't think I should start with the second.
>This isn't the case?
TOTW1 and TOTW2 have a significant overlap. Volume 2 is 10 years younger
than Volume 1 and it is not really a sequel. I prefer the structure and
content of TOTW2 over TOTW1. Both are a worthwhile read but if I could have
only one TOTW2 is my choice.
Cheers, Tilman
Landau, Germany
Ducati ST4
[1] I have a German driving/riding license and the trainers here don't
mention it unless you are doing it wrong. I haven't visited an MSF course so
I don't know. The system works totally different here. There are no riding
permits. You are not issued a license unless you have passed a theoretical
and practical exam (30-45 minutes of riding followed by a car with the
independent examiner). You must have taken at least twelve 45 minute
practice lessons (average: about 15-20) before you are permitted to register
for the exam. The failure rate is about 20-25 percent. It is mandatory to
ride in the city, on roads and highways and over the autobahn at day and
night, always accompanied by a car or a bike with the instructor on it. Only
after you passed the exam you are allowed to ride a bike on public roads.
Peter Ingason
news:qNBR5.438693$i5.75...@news1.frmt1.sfba.home.com...
<snip>
> > There are TWO problems with large bikes and beginners: lack of new
> > rider restraint, where the total horsepower can get one into real
> > trouble, really quickly. And a lot of LOW END power, so the bike is
> > twitchy to throttle response at low RPM. That is likely what bit Reed.
> >
> > I suspect that, after this, Reed will be showing a great deal of
> > restraint on any future bike, so the former isn't as much of a
> > concern. :)
>
> I'd like to think I was being a fairly good boy to begin with, I just
> screwed up and got into one of those situations where the tigher you grab
> the bars, the faster the bike goes, so you grab the bars tighter, and the
> bike goes faster, etc... I'd never anticipated this sort of situation,
and
> at the time I was sure that the throttle was stuck and had no idea what to
> do. (clutch. duh). It took me a good half hour of thinking about what
> happend before I came to the conclusion that getting scared and grabbing
the
> bars like I did probably caused most of the problem. If I'd gone into the
> rail without twisting the throttle, I may have been able to recover.
>
> I am going to be very, very careful now.
The reason you got into that situation is down to a lack of experience and
the nature of the bike. You got scared, tensed up and yanked the throttle.
Another bike *may* have let you get away with this, but something as torquey
as a Buell is going to bite you - and it did unfortunatley.
At least you seem to have worked out what caused you to lose control.
Unfortunatley, only experience will teach you how to deals with situations
like this...
> > Power wise, the buell is not that hot, especially for such a big
> > engine. The M2 claims 90HP at the crank, so it probably gets 80-85 at
> > the rear wheel, mostly because of a rather patetic-for-quasi-sportbike
> > redline. But at 3000 RPM, cruising in traffic, that thing has a LOT
> > of power.
> >
> > At least with the ZR-7, which gets a wee bit over 65 HP at the rear
> > wheel, won't nearly be as twitchy at low RPM.
>
> The Buell ads brag about pulling your shoulders from the sockets. It's
> really rather acurate. I'd only ever driven the cars I'd owned and ridden
> breifly on a 200cc Honda and Buell Blast, so had no idea that I had to
> worry about using the throttle accidentally. It had never happend in a
car,
> obviously, and if I did it on the Blast or CB200T, it was such a minor
> problem I didn't really notice. There's a big difference between a 500cc
> thumper and a 1200cc twin...
Cars are not bikes - it sounds stupid but you know what I mean - and should
not be used as a reference point. Most bikes, even the small cc ones, will
leave 99% of all cars standing. A bikes power to weight ratio is far greater
than a car which is why bikes demand specialist training and a lot of
restraint until you are used to riding one - again, something that only
comes with experience. Bike engines are also a lot more 'free revving' -
they have less inertia - than car engines so a small twist can send the RPM
sky high. Any V-Twin is going to punish you if you yank the throttle open as
all their 'power' is in the low RPM range.
> > >> desicion, but if they do have to replace the frame, that's $3,000
> > >> on a bike I only paid $6,500 for, and there's a bunch more to
> > >> fix...
> >
> > >If the frame is bent, it would not suprise me is the insurance
> > >company decide to just write the bike off... If a frame is 3K, then
> > >the cost of that and the other bits and labour will easily push it up
> > >towards the purchace price. At that point, it becomes uneconomical to
> > >repair it and cheaper so scrap it.
<snip>
> I don't blame you. Frankly, I'm tempted to not allow myself to ride my
own
> bike right now ::grin:: I haden't really looked at the EX500, and I'd
like
> to see how it feels, and it's be great to meet you too, Nick.
Again, this goes back to the shop. They really should not have sold you
something like the Buell considering the anount of experience - i.e. 0 -
that you had. Buells are not newbie bikes. If they are a decent shop then
they should have steered you to something more appropriate instead of
working out the comission and taking the opportunity to get rid of a model
that had been sitting in their back room for a while.
Peter Ingason
At the end of the day, I like my skin and will do everything I can to
protect it. The UK riders seem to be much more safety concious - maybe
because the riding conditions are different? - than in the US. Yes, there
are still the occasional 'squid' but nowhere nears as many as there seem to
be over there.
You bought Vanson because of their reputation. That, IMO, is the only thing
you should bear mind. Forget the colour schemes etc, buy the best you can.
You did and it saved your skin. It only takes one off to show you what a
difference proper kit can make...
> > BTW, it may just be a 'commute' bike but there is a higher chance of
> having
> > an accident in traffic - mainly down to all the idiots in the cages
around
> > you - so wearing the right kit should be an essential rather than
> something
> > you need to 'convince' yourself to do. It only takes one accident - as
> > highlighted here - to prove the worth of wearing the right kit. At
20mph,
> I
> > doubt there would be very much left of Reeds skin had he been riding in
> > jeans and a t-shirt (for example).
>
> I can vouch for that. The biggest help this time was the gloves. Scott
(my
> salesman) gave me a pair of Buell's best gloves for free when I picked up
> the bike, as a surprise. The had carbon-kevlar reinforcements on the
> knuckles, and I thought they were kinda tacky. Now, the carbon-kevlan is
> half worn through on the right glove, with one of the plates split and
> almost torn off. I can only imagine how much worse it would have been if
> I'd been wearing even the decent Olympia leather gloves I had originally
> bought.
Yes, the first ting to go down when you come off a bike is your hands. Human
instinct puts them there in an attempt to break your fall so a decent pair
of gloves are essential. Again, they did the job they where designed for -
they saved your skin - but should now be replaced by the sounds of it.
> To anyone thinking of buying a bike, here's a bit of advice I think I'm
> qualfied to give:
> If you have to choose between more bike and less kit, or more kit and less
> bike, spend more on the kit. If you're lucky, it will last you more than
> one bike. If you aren't lucky, you won't be riding another bike without
the
> right equipment.
>
> If you can afford the bike and afford the insurance, but can't afford
decent
> leathers, a good helmet, and quality gloves, you can't afford the bike.
> Save up another month or two and stay alive.
>
> {soapbox mode off}
I totally agree with that BUT - before this decends into another yes/no
debate :-) - I will qualify that by saying that it is up to the individual
to decide what level of protection they want to wear. At the end of the day,
they can wear what they want but I always ride in full leathers, helmet etc
because you never know. You could be the best rider around, but if some
idiot in a cage decides its your turn to get knocked off, no amount of
riding skill is going to save you then...
</ditto soapbox mode off :-)>
Reed Kennedy
> want to look into the ZR750 Zephyr if you're buying used. Those
> should be substantially cheaper than the used Nighthawk 750s that
> are out there, and should handle a bit better out of the box, too.
If I were to grab a Nighthawk / starter type bike, I'd almost defiantely go
used. For insurance, if nothing else. I'll definately look into the
Zephyr.
> > Yep. One of the last 2000s the shop got. On a interesting side note,
it's
> > kind of a 2000 1/2, because it uses the 2001 rear suspension rather than
the
> > 99/00 stuff that was recalled.
>
> I imagine the recall was to update to the '01 parts. So it's a Y2K
> that got the recall, I guess?
Nope. 99s and 00s got these big ugly braces on the suspension covering to
keep it from cracking. Ugh. This is why there was a $1000 rebate going.
Mine got the new suspension that didn't crack, plus it has adjustable
compression dampening, which is now for '01.
> > Problem is, my shop takes $85 per hour in labor.
>
> YIKES!
Yep.
> > The frame goes for $1000,
> > but installation of it alone is $2000.
>
> Well, keep in mind the amount of labor involved in stripping a bike
> completely from the frame and building it back up on a new one. I
> did that once, and I'd rather not do it again...
I don't envey them the task, I'll say that much.
> > I think the tank is about $400,
>
> That's pretty reasonable, IMHO.
>
> > and
> > then I have to get a new shift lever, new break levers, new rear signal,
> > etc... It'll probably not get totaled, but it may be right on the edge
if
> > the frame is gone.
>
> A real nail-biter, sounds like.
I'm on the proverbial edge of my seat, but I trust the dealership to do
right by me. They're good people, and at those labor rates, they probably
don't need to cheat people (any more, I mean...)
> > OTOH, if the frame is fine and the tank is fine, it's
> > just little bits on the outside and I can afford fixing that out of
pocket
> > without getting hammered on insurance. It's terribly frustrating,
really.
>
> I'll bet. Sit down with a wrench at the shop that did the estimate.
> Talk with him. Ask him what out of the list MUST be fixed for the
> safe operation of the bike, and what can be "lived with".
When they towed the bike in, Scott, who sold it to me, took me into the shop
and explained that if I was having the insurance pay for the repairs, they'd
fix it up good as new, but if I was going to do it out of pocket, they'd
give me a full break-down of what was astetic and what was absolutely
necicary, and what was in between.
> >> Right now, Ithaca, NY. That may change at some point, though. Stay
> >> tuned.
>
> > Huh, I just moved away from that general neck of the woods. I lived
outside
> > Albany, and went to college in Oneonta, NY.
>
> Where outside of Albany? I grew up in Albany and Guilderland, and
> I've lived in Troy, Waterford (gag) and Rennselaer.
My mom lives in Sand Lake, which is on Rt. 43 off I-90 exit 8, and my dad's
out in Stephentown, which is also on 43, so far east it's almost in MA.
> > Do you know anything about
> > renting bikes in the general upstate area? Does anyone do it?
>
> I've not yet found anyone who does, but with the Adirondacks, it
> would be a great business for someone.
I'll pledge my business, but then again that may not be much incentive at
this point... ::grin::
> > Also,
> > if you're thinking about moving about, I have to say that the NorCal
area is
> > pretty great... As long as you can find a place to live.
>
> I'd like to check that area out. Liked it when I was passing
> through a decade ago.
If you ever want to come visit, I'll do my best to show you around.
Hopefully I'll know the area pretty well by then.
Reed.
'02 Buell M2 Cyclone, 23 Miles, in the shop.
Reed Kennedy
> > qualfied to give:
> > If you have to choose between more bike and less kit, or more kit and
less
> > bike, spend more on the kit. If you're lucky, it will last you more
than
> > one bike. If you aren't lucky, you won't be riding another bike without
> the
> > right equipment.
> >
> > If you can afford the bike and afford the insurance, but can't afford
> decent
> > leathers, a good helmet, and quality gloves, you can't afford the bike.
> > Save up another month or two and stay alive.
> >
> > {soapbox mode off}
>
> I totally agree with that BUT - before this decends into another yes/no
> debate :-) - I will qualify that by saying that it is up to the individual
> to decide what level of protection they want to wear. At the end of the
day,
> they can wear what they want but I always ride in full leathers, helmet
etc
> because you never know. You could be the best rider around, but if some
> idiot in a cage decides its your turn to get knocked off, no amount of
> riding skill is going to save you then...
>
> </ditto soapbox mode off :-)>
Agreed. The group really doesn't need another one of those, does it. I
wasn't trying to preach to the competent and skilled riders, my comments
were aimed at the newbie, just getting into biking. Preface my statement
with "If you're just starting out, and and think you just might be as
clueless and I was and am..." if you will.
Reed.
'00 Buell M2 Cyclone, 23 Miles, in the shop.
Tim & Kathy Morrow
>
> > What you should ALWAYS do in a case like that is to go to the course
> > site for the earlier courses on the course starting date, several
> > hours early. If people don't show up, they take people from the
> > line, in the order they arrive. So you could possibly have gotten
> > the course done before you got the bike. You really NEED to learn
> > that stuff before you ride, especially on a big twin in an urban
> > area.
>
> I asked them about waiting lists, and even badgered them a bit... They
> assured me there was no way to get into an earlier course. But I never
> thought to turn up at the site. I guess I should have asked the group about
> this a bit ago.
This varies from state program to state program, and even from site to
site within state programs. For instance, in northern Virginia, I teach
at two community college campuses that do not accept walk-ons, and one
that does.
> I'd aranged a little bit of tutoring from one of my friends
> who rides, but as time goes on, it becomes more and more obvious that MSF
> and having someone tell you where the various bits are are two completely
> different things.
DOH! *NOW* you learn this.... ;-) (The hard way, unfortunately!)
> > Um. You won't have enough experience to ride a passenger by the
> > time she gets here, dude. It's recommended that a new rider not
> > take a passenger until they have been riding regularly for at LEAST
> > a year. If you crashed this bad and hurt your bike and so forth,
> > and consider yourself lucky, how will you feel when the bike is
> > hugely more topheavy, it leans over in unpredictable ways courtesy
> > of your passenger, and you run a much higher risk of crashing? How
> > will you feel if SHE gets hurt? And do you have a full set of
> > riding gear for HER to wear?
>
> I checked into this, and that source suggested 2-6 months. I was hoping I'd
> be ready, but I obviously wouldn't have invited her to ride with me if I
> didn't feel I was ready. I have to admit I'm a bit disapointed that I'll
> have to wait a year, but that's obviously better than someone getting hurt.
> But yes, I did think ahead and have a bunch of spare stuff for her to wear.
> I have a spare leather jacket and gloves, and was going to buy her a helmet.
>
> > Take her in the car, dude. Better your combined safety, and no
> > regrets.
>
> No car... It was bike or car, not both. Even if I could buy both, I
> couldn't insure both.
Ditto SGOAB, here, No car? Okay... take the bus.
> I'd mananged to convince myself that
> between signing up for the MSF course and doing my little private lessons,
> I'd done right. Time to wait for the course, I guess. ::sigh::
No guessing - it is time to wait. In the meantime, go out on the web and
search for the MSF book "Motorcycling Excellence,' buy it, and consume
it. You'll be that much more ready for the class in December.
> > Do *NOT* take a passenger, if you care about yourself and this
> > person. Not yet. Please.
>
> I won't. This is exactly the sort of advice I depend on the group for. I
> have to say I'm disapointed, but I can deal with that. One other note: I
> bought one of those Ventura bags (www.ventura-hsi.com) that holds 45 liters
> and can ride in the pasenger position. I was planning to use this to carry
> stuff (obviously) but I also wanted to load it with a bunch of stuff to
> practice carrying loads on the back of the bike (later, when I'm ready). I
> know that it won't move around like a person will, but will it be of any use
> to learn how to carry a passenger?
In a word, no.
> Damn... I was kinda hoping I could pretend it was a small accident. Less
> scary that way.
I'm pretty sure that hitting a large vehicle, crashing, and watching
your bike slide underneath another large vehicle qualifies as a major
crash. You were lucky. This time. Get that training!
Tim Morrow
--
MSF #21769
CCS Expert #19
2000 Mid-Atlantic Middleweight Sportsman Champion
2000 Mid-Atlantic Formula 40 Expert Champion
Tim & Kathy Morrow
> I've gotta. I'm only 20, so I'd either have to wait untill my next birthday
> (May) or take MSF. And I want to take MSF anyway. I signed up for it
> before I knew which bike I wanted, or even knew when I wanted to start
> riding for sure, but I'm still waiting. I emphasize that this accident
> _was_my_fault_ for not waiting for the MSF course, but I wonder how many
> people get into accidents under similar circumstances, riding while waiting
> to take the hideously backloged course. I wanted to take the course first,
> but was impatcient and made a bad choice. I wish they'd start running extra
> courses when they get this far behind.
Surplus: New Riders.
Shortage: MSF-certified Instructors,
Training bikes.
Training sites.
Money.
Insurance.
Supporting Dealers.
State Funding.
Weekends.
Parking Lots.
Here in northern Virginia, we run classes 42 weekends a year, plus
weekday classes during the summer. 24 students per class at most sites,
rain or shine, and we run through instructors like cheap candles. I've
been teaching for eight years, 15-21 weekends per year, and I can count
on the fingers of one hand the instructors that I taught with in 1992
who are still active in the program.
If you're an experienced rider in California giving Reed advice here on
reeky, consider taking the training to become MSF-certified and teaching
a couple of weekends a year. It's rewarding (not very much so
financially, but you do get a great sense of accomplishment) and you get
to give something back to this sport (hobby, whatever) that we all love
so much.
Peter Ingason
"Reed Kennedy" <Cor...@IATEABABYmail.com> wrote in message
> wasn't trying to preach to the competent and skilled riders, my comments
> were aimed at the newbie, just getting into biking. Preface my statement
> with "If you're just starting out, and and think you just might be as
> clueless and I was and am..." if you will.
Don't get me wrong. I wasn't having a go at you. I agree with you 100% but
was merely covering my own ass from an impending flame war about this :-)
Nikita Synytskyy
Some Guy on a Bike wrote:
>
> On Sat, 18 Nov 2000 00:56:50 GMT, "SeagramSvn" <myn...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > how the heck did your engine
> > stay running after it went down?
>
> Most bikes will continue to run quite happily on their side until
> they seize from lack of oil.
The first time I dropped my bike it happened with the engine running; the
engine continued to run when it was on the ground. What is a bit more
remarkable is that I even managed to pick it up without stalling the
engine!
Nikita.
--
CotDRSig # (83.3+sqrt(-23+3i))/0xFFF
Andrew
"Reed Kennedy" <Cor...@IATEABABYmail.com> wrote in message
news:HdBR5.438590$i5.75...@news1.frmt1.sfba.home.com...
>
> If I end up going with a smaller standard, it'll probably be a Honda
> Nighthawk. The GS500E, Seca II and Nighthawk were all on my list of bikes
I
> would have bought used, and the Nighthawk was my favorite, although it
> tended to be a bit more expensive for newer ones. Does that sound
sensible?
>
--
Reed,
I wouldn't recommend the current nighthawks, I feel they aren't as nice as
the mid 80's Nighthawk 'S. The Nighthawk 'S has the same hydraulic valve
lifters, plus it has shaft drive and a 700 cc engine that revs up to 10,750.
Compare this to the measly 8500 rpms you get out of a new nighthawk, and you
realize how anemic the newer nighthawks are. If you can find a pristine
Nighthawk 'S, I would buy that over the current ones. I agree with SGOAB
about the ZR-7 having better suspension, and that would be a good way to go.
I bet your Buell will be able to be fixed though, and it being your first
choice, I doubt you will want to move down to something smaller. Just take
your time, and learn as much as you can. You will be back on that Buell in
no time.
Andrew
95 Connie
86 Nighthawk 'S
http://ultrasupercool.com
Rich Lesperance
Peter Ingason <peter_...@hotmail.com> wrote
> BTW, it may just be a 'commute' bike but there is a higher chance of
having
> an accident in traffic - mainly down to all the idiots in the cages around
> you -
Ah, so you've seen the Gainesville traffic, then <g>?
Rich L
Rich Lesperance
Reed Kennedy <Cor...@IATEABABYmail.com> wrote
>
> Agreed. The group really doesn't need another one of those, does it. I
> wasn't trying to preach to the competent and skilled riders, my comments
> were aimed at the newbie, just getting into biking
And the newbie appreciates it, since the reason he's here is to learn....
Rich L
Denise Howard
>
> Most bikes will continue to run quite happily on their side until
> they seize from lack of oil.
Which is why it's a good idea to hit the kill switch ASAP, before
attempting anything else with the bike!
Denise AFM #732
'95 CBR600 F3
'88 EX250 racebike
'00 SV650
'89 EX500 racebike
Nicholas Weaver
Tim & Kathy Morrow <tomo...@erols.com> wrote:
>If you're an experienced rider in California giving Reed advice here on
>reeky, consider taking the training to become MSF-certified and teaching
>a couple of weekends a year. It's rewarding (not very much so
>financially, but you do get a great sense of accomplishment) and you get
>to give something back to this sport (hobby, whatever) that we all love
>so much.
Some insurance companies give a 30% discount to MSF instructors. Once
I get more experience, I probably will do this.
Nicholas Weaver
Peter Ingason <peter_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Again, this goes back to the shop. They really should not have sold you
>something like the Buell considering the anount of experience - i.e. 0 -
>that you had. Buells are not newbie bikes. If they are a decent shop then
>they should have steered you to something more appropriate instead of
>working out the comission and taking the opportunity to get rid of a model
>that had been sitting in their back room for a while.
One problem. Harley/Buell doesn't really HAVE that sort of bike. It
is not like the Japanese manufacturers which have a far greater range
of motorcycles available.
They have the Blast, which is nice and tractible, but really lacking
on the engine (enough that I would not be comfortable riding the bay
bridge on a regular basis on one). In the SF bay area, freeway riding
is essential, 70 MPH speeds are essential, and the Blast really isn't
that comfortable at such speeds.
The other option is the Sportster 883. If one could get it, at or
near MSRP, it would pretty much fit the bill as a decently tractable,
except that it is moderatly heavy (490 lbs dry), not the most agile,
and it is hard to find at MSRP, so it is questionable whether the
dealer could or would be able to shift someone towards it.
Some Guy on a Bike
<Cor...@IATEABABYmail.com> wrote:
> If I were to grab a Nighthawk / starter type bike, I'd almost defiantely go
> used. For insurance, if nothing else. I'll definately look into the
> Zephyr.
A good place to find out more about the Zephyrs particularly is at
http://www.parlorcity.com/pkahlert/zephyr/
The Zephyr Zone.
>> I imagine the recall was to update to the '01 parts. So it's a Y2K
>> that got the recall, I guess?
> Nope. 99s and 00s got these big ugly braces on the suspension covering to
> keep it from cracking. Ugh. This is why there was a $1000 rebate going.
> Mine got the new suspension that didn't crack, plus it has adjustable
> compression dampening, which is now for '01.
Interesting. I guess they made the switch when they ran out of the
old parts.
>> Well, keep in mind the amount of labor involved in stripping a bike
>> completely from the frame and building it back up on a new one. I
>> did that once, and I'd rather not do it again...
> I don't envey them the task, I'll say that much.
Yeah, it's not a lot of fun. I;{>
>> A real nail-biter, sounds like.
> I'm on the proverbial edge of my seat, but I trust the dealership to do
> right by me. They're good people, and at those labor rates, they probably
> don't need to cheat people (any more, I mean...)
Hah! I;{> At least they're good guys. An increasingly rare
commodity these days.
>> I'll bet. Sit down with a wrench at the shop that did the estimate.
>> Talk with him. Ask him what out of the list MUST be fixed for the
>> safe operation of the bike, and what can be "lived with".
> When they towed the bike in, Scott, who sold it to me, took me into the shop
> and explained that if I was having the insurance pay for the repairs, they'd
> fix it up good as new, but if I was going to do it out of pocket, they'd
> give me a full break-down of what was aesthetic and what was absolutely
> necessary, and what was in between.
Fair deal.
>> Where outside of Albany? I grew up in Albany and Guilderland, and
>> I've lived in Troy, Waterford (gag) and Rennselaer.
> My mom lives in Sand Lake, which is on Rt. 43 off I-90 exit 8, and my dad's
> out in Stephentown, which is also on 43, so far east it's almost in MA.
I know where Stephentown is. I used to ride Rte 43 from time to
time into MA. Usually I'd do a loop from Albany on Rte. 2 into MA,
then onto 43 and back around. Petersburg Pass is beautiful when the
leaves are changing, and I used to work in Williamstown.
>> I've not yet found anyone who does, but with the Adirondacks, it
>> would be a great business for someone.
> I'll pledge my business, but then again that may not be much incentive at
> this point... ::grin::
Bike rental is a business I'm not interested in, myself. I;{>
>>> Also,
>>> if you're thinking about moving about, I have to say that the NorCal area is
>>> pretty great... As long as you can find a place to live.
>> I'd like to check that area out. Liked it when I was passing
>> through a decade ago.
> If you ever want to come visit, I'll do my best to show you around.
> Hopefully I'll know the area pretty well by then.
Thanky kindly!
Demetrios
wrote:
> So when you mentioned you got your new bike and (before taking
>the MSF course) took it on I-80 & headed for Frisco, I had parallel thoughts
>of hopping on I-80 and heading towards NYC.
No problem! You're just in time for dinner! <evil laugh>
Reed Kennedy
> > keep it from cracking. Ugh. This is why there was a $1000 rebate
going.
> > Mine got the new suspension that didn't crack, plus it has adjustable
> > compression dampening, which is now for '01.
>
> Interesting. I guess they made the switch when they ran out of the
> old parts.
Yeah, I think that's what happened. I was planning on eventually replacing
the rear suspention (after a year or so) half to have more adjustability and
half just because the recall unit is no damn ugly. I was kinda disapointed
that they continued to use the old part and just have the dealer install
recall clamps untill well after (a few months) they learned of problems with
the suspension. But with a $1000 rebate, you can't complain too much.
> > I'm on the proverbial edge of my seat, but I trust the dealership to do
> > right by me. They're good people, and at those labor rates, they
probably
> > don't need to cheat people (any more, I mean...)
>
> Hah! I;{> At least they're good guys. An increasingly rare
> commodity these days.
Yeah. I have to say, I probably bought the Buell half because I loved the
bike and half because it was the only dealership who treated my decently and
with respect. If Munroe Motors had treated me like a half-intelegent human
rather than a walking wallet, I'd almost definately have a Ducati Monster
750 right now. I doubt I'd ever have looked at the Buell. Frankly, the
reason I went in to the Buell place to begin with was simply out of morbid
fasination. I learned that Buells were sportbikes with Harley motors, and
it struck me as unbeliveably stupid. I had to see it with my own eyes. I
never thought I'd buy one. Then I just kinda fell in love with the damn
monstrosity.
> >> Where outside of Albany? I grew up in Albany and Guilderland, and
> >> I've lived in Troy, Waterford (gag) and Rennselaer.
>
> > My mom lives in Sand Lake, which is on Rt. 43 off I-90 exit 8, and my
dad's
> > out in Stephentown, which is also on 43, so far east it's almost in MA.
>
> I know where Stephentown is. I used to ride Rte 43 from time to
> time into MA. Usually I'd do a loop from Albany on Rte. 2 into MA,
> then onto 43 and back around. Petersburg Pass is beautiful when the
> leaves are changing, and I used to work in Williamstown.
What do you think of 43? I've obviously never ridden on it, but it was
always one of my favorite driving roads. There is a police station on a
side road a bit before the place where rt. 66 forks off, but that said I've
only ever seen 3 police cars on the back section (between sand lake and MA)
of it in 4 years of driving it daily. I literally had a dream about driving
it in my old MR2 the other day. I miss it.
My grandfather lives in Williamstown. Where'd you work? Ever go skiing at
Jiminy Peak? I miss that too. Does anyone make a Ski rack for bikes?
::grin::
> >> I've not yet found anyone who does, but with the Adirondacks, it
> >> would be a great business for someone.
>
> > I'll pledge my business, but then again that may not be much incentive
at
> > this point... ::grin::
>
> Bike rental is a business I'm not interested in, myself. I;{>
I've managed to make a bright desicion, if I do say so myself. I'm trying
to rent a 500cc Buell Blast from my dealership to learn on before I get my
M2 back. Problem is that I only have my permit, so I'm not really allowed
to rent anything right now. The dealership is making calls to try and let
me rent one anyway. Even if I have to wait 'till I get my bike back, I may
put it away, wait 'till I have my liscence from the MSF course, and rent a
blast to practice on. They said they could rent it to me for about $25 a
day, since I'd bought a bike there.
Trivia: The Blast!'s AlphaNum designation is P3, according to the service
manual. I wonder why they don't publicise that?
Reed.
'00 Buell M2 Cyclone, 23 miles, in the shop.
AKSzafran
a bike of any size, you're probably going to end up looking stupid sometime.
When I was taking my MSF course this summer, I got nervous at the "light tree"
test, saw the red light flash on, and grabbed a handfull of front brake. Since
I had ridden half the course on a Nighthawk 250 with a front drum brake, I was
not used to the ease of locking the wheel on the Suzuki GN125 (front disc)
which I was riding. (The N'Hawk had a throttle that was too twitchy, so I
decided to do the second half on a different bike.) Anyway, I ended up on my
arse, with no motorcycle licence yet. Two weeks later, I retook the second
half and the test, with a different instructor who was more knowledgable.
But anyway, to get to the point, get yourself a beater - kinda like my old
XS650. That bike was dropped at least four times during its life with me -
none of the drops were at high speed. They were mostly totally random things.
First, a guy with a *lawnmower* knocked the bike over. Then, it fell while
unloading it from a U Haul. It fell while it was up on blocks because I was
changing the forks. In the only "squidly" drop, I was trying to do a donut on
a sandy road off of rt. 36 in NJ. Finally, some guy was messing around on
it/trying to steal it(?) in a store parking lot in New Haven. After burning
his leg on the exhaust pipe, he took a different view of the situation, ran
away, and dropped it somewhere along the line. None of these drops caused much
damage, but had the bike been new and expensive, they would have ended up
costing me much more.
Drew
'82 XS650
Some Guy on a Bike
wrote:
>>>> Where outside of Albany? I grew up in Albany and Guilderland, and
>>>> I've lived in Troy, Waterford (gag) and Rennselaer.
>>> My mom lives in Sand Lake, which is on Rt. 43 off I-90 exit 8, and my dad's
>>> out in Stephentown, which is also on 43, so far east it's almost in MA.
>> I know where Stephentown is. I used to ride Rte 43 from time to
>> time into MA. Usually I'd do a loop from Albany on Rte. 2 into MA,
>> then onto 43 and back around. Petersburg Pass is beautiful when the
>> leaves are changing, and I used to work in Williamstown.
> What do you think of 43?
Well, I like Rte. 2 better... Of course, Rte. 2 is far more curvy!
I;{>
> I've obviously never ridden on it, but it was
> always one of my favorite driving roads. There is a police station on a
> side road a bit before the place where rt. 66 forks off, but that said I've
> only ever seen 3 police cars on the back section (between sand lake and MA)
> of it in 4 years of driving it daily. I literally had a dream about driving
> it in my old MR2 the other day. I miss it.
Yeah. I felt nostalgic for the northeast for about two weeks after
I moved back. Teh leaves changed, it was beautiful. Now it's
getting to be winter, Hillary won, tax time is coming, jobs are
scarce, cost of living is high... And I'm not so nostalgic any
more. I;{>
> My grandfather lives in Williamstown. Where'd you work?
Actually, I spent about a year working at The Mountain Goat on
Spring Street. You know what I miss from there? The Slippery
Banana. You remember that place? Man, they made the very best deli
sandiches I've ever eaten. And they gave me a great sandwich spread
idea that no one has ever copied, but I know the secret. I;{>
> Ever go skiing at Jiminy Peak? I miss that too.
Nah. I went telemark skiing when I worked for The Mountain Goat,
and came back with knees the size of grapefruit. Never went back on
a slope after that.
> Does anyone make a Ski rack for bikes? ::grin::
Geesh, with the number of times that gets asked in reeky, we should
put it in the FAQ!
>> Bike rental is a business I'm not interested in, myself. I;{>
> I've managed to make a bright desicion, if I do say so myself. I'm trying
> to rent a 500cc Buell Blast from my dealership to learn on before I get my
> M2 back.
Hrm. Honestly, I think that any more riding before taking the MSF
course, or at least learning SIPDE and doing some exercises with a
trained range instructor, is probably not the best of ideas. But
it's up to you. You're LESS likely to get yourself into trouble on
that bike, but it's still a motorcycle...
Please, be careful, man.
> Problem is that I only have my permit, so I'm not really allowed
> to rent anything right now. The dealership is making calls to try and let
> me rent one anyway.
Maybe the law is trying to tell you something...
> Even if I have to wait 'till I get my bike back, I may
> put it away, wait 'till I have my liscence from the MSF course, and rent a
> blast to practice on.
Now THAT sounds like a very sensible plan of action!
> They said they could rent it to me for about $25 a
> day, since I'd bought a bike there.
That's not bad at all, considering.
> Trivia: The Blast!'s AlphaNum designation is P3, according to the service
> manual. I wonder why they don't publicise that?
Same reason Kawasaki doesn't publicise its letter/number model
designations. They're mainly for warranty and service use, and not
much good to the public.
Trivia fact: The GPz550 actually had two different model
designations entirely. The early GPz (82-83) was a KZ550H model,
and the late GPz (84-up) was a ZX550A model. They decided that,
after a few minor engine changes and a few more major suspension and
wheel changes, that the bike was in a different, new category, and
so the ZX model designation was born in America.
Reed Kennedy
>
> I;{>
I've never spent much time on 2, I'll have to try it out should I ever find
myself back there for a significant ammount of time.
> > I've obviously never ridden on it, but it was
> > always one of my favorite driving roads. There is a police station on a
> > side road a bit before the place where rt. 66 forks off, but that said
I've
> > only ever seen 3 police cars on the back section (between sand lake and
MA)
> > of it in 4 years of driving it daily. I literally had a dream about
driving
> > it in my old MR2 the other day. I miss it.
>
> Yeah. I felt nostalgic for the northeast for about two weeks after
> I moved back. Teh leaves changed, it was beautiful. Now it's
> getting to be winter, Hillary won, tax time is coming, jobs are
> scarce, cost of living is high... And I'm not so nostalgic any
> more. I;{>
Oh, a couple roads and a couple people were about all I miss. The North
East. By and large, you can keep it ::grin::
> > My grandfather lives in Williamstown. Where'd you work?
>
> Actually, I spent about a year working at The Mountain Goat on
> Spring Street. You know what I miss from there? The Slippery
> Banana. You remember that place? Man, they made the very best deli
> sandiches I've ever eaten. And they gave me a great sandwich spread
> idea that no one has ever copied, but I know the secret. I;{>
I've been to the Mountain Goat, but I never ended up at The Slippery Banana.
Another new place to check out next time I visit my folks.
> > Ever go skiing at Jiminy Peak? I miss that too.
>
> Nah. I went telemark skiing when I worked for The Mountain Goat,
> and came back with knees the size of grapefruit. Never went back on
> a slope after that.
Ah, skiing. An entirely different doorway to personal injury. I'm sure I
would have been much more shaken by my accident if I haden't experianced
similar-speed acidents on the slopes of Jiminy. 'Couse, skiing gives much
less provision for saftey equipment, and I broke bones there. The bike
accident wasn't so bad by comparison. (this one, anyway. I'm not looking
to try it again, beleive me.)
> > Does anyone make a Ski rack for bikes? ::grin::
>
> Geesh, with the number of times that gets asked in reeky, we should
> put it in the FAQ!
Seriously, I bet there is a mountian somewhere within driving distance of
NorCal with high altitude snowy slopes, but nothing on the ground, so safe
to bike too... You could strap a board to each side, put the boots in your
backpack... Well, it's a nice idea anyway.
> >> Bike rental is a business I'm not interested in, myself. I;{>
>
> > I've managed to make a bright desicion, if I do say so myself. I'm
trying
> > to rent a 500cc Buell Blast from my dealership to learn on before I get
my
> > M2 back.
>
> Hrm. Honestly, I think that any more riding before taking the MSF
> course, or at least learning SIPDE and doing some exercises with a
> trained range instructor, is probably not the best of ideas. But
> it's up to you. You're LESS likely to get yourself into trouble on
> that bike, but it's still a motorcycle...
>
> Please, be careful, man.
Yeah, I'm sure you're right. It's only (counts) 16 days untill my first MSF
class. That's little more than two weeks. Even if I get my bike back
before then, it would be really hard to justify not waiting.
> > Even if I have to wait 'till I get my bike back, I may
> > put it away, wait 'till I have my liscence from the MSF course, and rent
a
> > blast to practice on.
>
> Now THAT sounds like a very sensible plan of action!
>
> > They said they could rent it to me for about $25 a
> > day, since I'd bought a bike there.
>
> That's not bad at all, considering.
Yeah, that's probably what I should do. The Blast is cute (as long as I
ignore the '!'), and while I don't fit on it well enough to want to own one,
I think I could practice on it comfortably. And it's _so_much_ less
intimidating than the Cyclone.
> > Trivia: The Blast!'s AlphaNum designation is P3, according to the
service
> > manual. I wonder why they don't publicise that?
>
> Same reason Kawasaki doesn't publicise its letter/number model
> designations. They're mainly for warranty and service use, and not
> much good to the public.
Yeah, but every other Buell model is dual-named. Cyclone M2, Lightening X1,
Thunderbolt S3/S3T. The Blast! is just Blast!, not Blast! P3. Maybe the
'!' counts. Also, is it just me, or does it seem like Buell M2 Cyclone (or
whatever) sounds more natural than Buell Cyclone M2? It seems like the
AlphaNum should come first...
> Trivia fact: The GPz550 actually had two different model
> designations entirely. The early GPz (82-83) was a KZ550H model,
> and the late GPz (84-up) was a ZX550A model. They decided that,
> after a few minor engine changes and a few more major suspension and
> wheel changes, that the bike was in a different, new category, and
> so the ZX model designation was born in America.
So: they're both three numbers and three letters... Why didn't they simply
call it the KZ550H in both public and shop, and avoid extranious names? I'm
sure there's some marketing reason. Interesting that they change the shop
numbers more frequently... You'd think they'd want to brag to everyone
about substancially revamping a bike by changing the public name.
Reed.
'00 Buell Cyclone M2, 23 miles, in the shop.
Cam Penner
Cor...@NOEVILSHEEPmail.com says...
> Any comments are welcome. If you find a way that I've screwed up that I
> didn't notice, please don't spare my feelings and tell me. The only way I
> can be constructive about this is to treat it as a learning experiance. And
> it's an expensive one, so I'd like to learn as much as possible. Any other
> advice on getting my bike back on the road or anything else would be great.
1) Glad to hear you're ok.
2) Sorry to hear about the bike, but hey - you saved the Palm Pilot.
It's a real eye openner isn't it. I applaud your complete and total
acceptence of responsibility. From what I've read in your responses so
far you've picked up on most of what went wrong, and how to fix it so I
won't do a lot of reiterating. I *would* like to urge you to take the
time required to get skilled a little more seriously though. It takes a
LONG time to become a proficient rider. Most of us still have much room
for improvement too. Take it easy, avoid "problem streets"[1], and
passengers for a while. Passengers change the dynamics of your bike FAR
MORE than you would initially think.
Don't beat yourself up too bad. You DID have proper gear and you WERE
planning on getting away from the tracks. Learn your lessons, and get
on with life. Oh yeah, and the shiny side is supposed to be up....
[1] Think of your detours as just getting more riding in.
---
Cam
'89 RZ 350
Christian Huebner
>
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> For the newbies among us:
>
> I took the MSF and thought it was excellent. However, since you never get
> much above 15 MPH (second gear) and stay in the parking lot, it really does
> not prepare you for street riding. It is IMO an important first step
> though. Once I got my license and started to practice on the street, I went
> through a very steep learning curve. Newbie MSF graduates should not be
> deceived into thinking they are ready for anything but clean quiet streets
> until they get some on-the-road experience.
Too true. After taking MSF class and buying a Ducati 750 Monster
I started practicing on the back streets of Mountain View. Though
the MSF class was good it was a strange feeling to ride the big
(compared to the 250 Nighthawk) Duc for the first time. I slowly
spread the area I was riding in over the next few days and once
I turned around when I found out I didnt have the courage to ride
up Moody road all the way.
I never would even have considered riding in heavy traffic for a
while.
The guy was very lucky he still is alive.
> Also, against popular opinion, I got a 2001 EX500 for my first street bike
> and am not sorry. I have 4460 miles to date and just started winterizing my
> bike. In my own defense, I realize I am still a rank newbie, ride each day
> knowing a mistake could really mess me up (even with full gear) and know
> that I will be starting from scratch next season.
Same here. I started riding in May and due to a lot of work I only
have 3000 mls on my Monster yet. The Monster was new too, and
given my lack of experience with used motorcycles I still think this
was the better choice.
Some Guy on a Bike
<Cor...@IATEABABYmail.com> wrote:
>> Well, I like Rte. 2 better... Of course, Rte. 2 is far more curvy!
>> I;{>
> I've never spent much time on 2, I'll have to try it out should I ever find
> myself back there for a significant ammount of time.
The road surface is variable. But the views and the curves are
worth the price.
>> Yeah. I felt nostalgic for the northeast for about two weeks after
>> I moved back. Teh leaves changed, it was beautiful. Now it's
>> getting to be winter, Hillary won, tax time is coming, jobs are
>> scarce, cost of living is high... And I'm not so nostalgic any
>> more. I;{>
> Oh, a couple roads and a couple people were about all I miss. The North
> East. By and large, you can keep it ::grin::
Nah. Give it to Henry! I;{>
>> Actually, I spent about a year working at The Mountain Goat on
>> Spring Street. You know what I miss from there? The Slippery
>> Banana. You remember that place? Man, they made the very best deli
>> sandiches I've ever eaten. And they gave me a great sandwich spread
>> idea that no one has ever copied, but I know the secret. I;{>
> I've been to the Mountain Goat, but I never ended up at The Slippery Banana.
> Another new place to check out next time I visit my folks.
Well, the reason I miss it is because it closed about 10 years ago.
B/ I worked at the Mountain Goat in, what, 1987? Man, it's been a
while...
>> Nah. I went telemark skiing when I worked for The Mountain Goat,
>> and came back with knees the size of grapefruit. Never went back on
>> a slope after that.
> Ah, skiing. An entirely different doorway to personal injury.
I understand traction of rubber on pavement. I can't understand
everything, now, can I? BP~
>> Hrm. Honestly, I think that any more riding before taking the MSF
>> course, or at least learning SIPDE and doing some exercises with a
>> trained range instructor, is probably not the best of ideas. But
>> it's up to you. You're LESS likely to get yourself into trouble on
>> that bike, but it's still a motorcycle...
>> Please, be careful, man.
> Yeah, I'm sure you're right. It's only (counts) 16 days untill my first MSF
> class. That's little more than two weeks. Even if I get my bike back
> before then, it would be really hard to justify not waiting.
I'm glad you feel that way.
>>> They said they could rent it to me for about $25 a
>>> day, since I'd bought a bike there.
>> That's not bad at all, considering.
> Yeah, that's probably what I should do. The Blast is cute (as long as I
> ignore the '!'), and while I don't fit on it well enough to want to own one,
> I think I could practice on it comfortably. And it's _so_much_ less
> intimidating than the Cyclone.
So A) Take the course, B) Get your license, C) Practice on the
Blast!
>>> Trivia: The Blast!'s AlphaNum designation is P3, according to the service
>>> manual. I wonder why they don't publicise that?
>> Same reason Kawasaki doesn't publicise its letter/number model
>> designations. They're mainly for warranty and service use, and not
>> much good to the public.
> Yeah, but every other Buell model is dual-named. Cyclone M2, Lightening X1,
> Thunderbolt S3/S3T. The Blast! is just Blast!, not Blast! P3. Maybe the
> '!' counts.
Good point. I honestly don't know.
>> Trivia fact: The GPz550 actually had two different model
>> designations entirely. The early GPz (82-83) was a KZ550H model,
>> and the late GPz (84-up) was a ZX550A model. They decided that,
>> after a few minor engine changes and a few more major suspension and
>> wheel changes, that the bike was in a different, new category, and
>> so the ZX model designation was born in America.
> So: they're both three numbers and three letters... Why didn't they simply
> call it the KZ550H in both public and shop, and avoid extranious names?
The 1982 was the KZ550H1. The 1983 was the KZ550H2. The KZ1000
Police model, for instance, I think it up past 12 for its curret
iteration.
I think they have a model designation to make things precise, and a
name the public can stomach.
> Interesting that they change the shop
> numbers more frequently... You'd think they'd want to brag to everyone
> about substancially revamping a bike by changing the public name.
Nah. Usually the revamp is only extremely noticable if someone
looks hard enough under the skin.
Peter Ingason
news:iN%R5.4496$BL.3...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> For the newbies among us:
>
> I took the MSF and thought it was excellent. However, since you never get
> much above 15 MPH (second gear) and stay in the parking lot, it really
does
> not prepare you for street riding. It is IMO an important first step
> though. Once I got my license and started to practice on the street, I
went
> through a very steep learning curve. Newbie MSF graduates should not be
> deceived into thinking they are ready for anything but clean quiet streets
> until they get some on-the-road experience.
Can I just ask how you get a full bike licence in the states?
In the UK, everyone has take, and pass, Compulsory Basic Training (CBT) -
this involves a morning riding around cones, etc. on a pad and then an
afternoon on the roads around the test centre - before they are allowed to
ride with L plates. I guess that this is similar to the MSF course?
Then, if you want a full licence to ride the bike you want, the scheme I
took involved riding around on a 125 on the roads for 2 days to get some
road sense and the 'feel' of the bike then on a 500cc bike for another 2
before taking the bike test on a Friday. At all times I was accompanies with
an instructor and as I booked, and took my test in March I got 1 on 1
tuition :-)
How does the process work in the US? To me, is seems that you can start
riding a bike on the streets with out any formal tuition whatsoever - the
MSF course seems 'voluntary' and doesn't involve any street time - but how
do you go about getting a fill bike licence? Is there an actual formal bike
test?
Just wondering like...
--
Peter
'00FZS600 Fazer
Some Guy on a Bike
<peter_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> How does the process work in the US? To me, is seems that you can start
> riding a bike on the streets with out any formal tuition whatsoever
That's about the size of it. It does vary from state to state, but
it's pretty standard in most places on these points. Most places
you can get a permit and ride on the road with NO experience at all.
Most of our road test is about half of your CBT -- no road riding.
Just parking lot exercises.
> the
> MSF course seems 'voluntary' and doesn't involve any street time
Also correct. You get an insurance discount for taking the MSF
course, and in some states you can skip the parking lot riding test
if you pass the MSF, and just take a written test to get your
license.
> but how
> do you go about getting a fill bike licence? Is there an actual formal bike
> test?
Written test and the parking lot half of the CBT, more or less.
Nothing more. You can get a liecense for as big a piece of hardware
as you'd like that way.
@earthlink.net entropy_magnet
<peter_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>How does the process work in the US? To me, is seems that you can start
>riding a bike on the streets with out any formal tuition whatsoever - the
>MSF course seems 'voluntary' and doesn't involve any street time - but how
>do you go about getting a fill bike licence? Is there an actual formal bike
>test?
>
>Just wondering like...
In the state of Georgia, you can get a learner's permit by taking a
written test. This allows you to ride during daylight hours, no
passengers allowed. Learner's permit is good for 6 months, I believe.
To get the full motorcycle endorsement on your license, you have to
take a skills test, where you actually get on the bike and perform
various actions, and are scored based on things such as stopping
distances, staying within the lines, and maintaining proper speed.
The test is generally performed in an empty parking lot set up
specifically for the test(lines painted special, and whatnot).
Neither test is terribly diffucult, and really only demonstrate the
bare basics of what is needed to ride.
Ed
Nicholas Weaver
California rules:
To get a learner's permit (no freeways, no passangers, no after dark),
you need to have a current driver's liscence [1] and take a written test.
To get an M1 liscence, you need to complete the requirements for the
permit and either take an MSF or similar course OR take a driving
test. The driving test is all low speed, parking lot maneuvering. If
you are under 21, you must take the MSF course to get your liscence.
An M1 liscence is required for everything from a 50cc crusier to a
hiyabusa.
[1] I think thy have some other hoops to jump through if you don't
have a class C (car) liscence, but I don't think anybody ever acquires
such a driver's liscence.
Nola J
> --
> Peter
> '00FZS600 Fazer
It's actually pretty easy..
Just buy a bike, (or borrow a friends,) go the DMV, take a written test, take a
short road test, (if you take the MSF course, the road test is "waved").
License will follow. One of the main reason why there are so many dangerous
motorcycle riders out there. (squirrels)
My neighbor even borrowed my 250cc Helix, got his M-Class license in one
afternoon!
--
A man's got to do what a man's got to do.
A woman must do what he can't.
-Rhonda Hansome