air cooled in Texas?
Shawn Tackett
I am trying to decide between the 750 Ace and 650 Vstar. The fact the the
Vstar is air cooled worries me because I live in Texas. I asked the Yamaha
dealer if it would pose a problem for me and he said no. But, he is trying
to sell a bike so I bet he'd say whatever I wanted to hear. Does anyone
know if air-cooled would be a problem on a 100 degree Texas summer day? Any
help would be appreciated.
Beth
i hope that you're not planning to buy from Woods Fun Center.
i know plenty of guys who ride air cooled bikes here in austin. hell,
when i was living in sacramento (similar summer heat), i rode an air
cooled bike.
i don't think it's a problem unless you get stuck in traffic for an
extended period of time or you let the bike run lean (eg: not rejetting
after putting a different exhaust on).
-Beth
'00 SV650 - "Boo-Boo", DoD#4508, ICQ 20902391
http://lonestar.texas.net/~beffie
mrdancer
Beth <bef...@texas.net> wrote in message news:38DE7123...@texas.net...
> Shawn Tackett wrote:
> >
> > I am trying to decide between the 750 Ace and 650 Vstar. The fact the
the
> > Vstar is air cooled worries me because I live in Texas. I asked the
Yamaha
> > dealer if it would pose a problem for me and he said no. But, he is
trying
> > to sell a bike so I bet he'd say whatever I wanted to hear. Does anyone
> > know if air-cooled would be a problem on a 100 degree Texas summer day?
Any
> > help would be appreciated.
>
> i hope that you're not planning to buy from Woods Fun Center.
>
> i know plenty of guys who ride air cooled bikes here in austin. hell,
> when i was living in sacramento (similar summer heat), i rode an air
> cooled bike.
FWIW, remember that engines can't feel humidity. IOW, 90 degrees with 90%
humidity feels a lot hotter to us living creatures than 90 degrees with 10%
humidity, but it's the same temperature (makes no difference) to an engine.
Not that it answers your question or anything... ;-) Personally, I don't
think you'll have a problem.
Blake Mantel
> Beth <bef...@texas.net> wrote in message:
> > >Shawn Tackett wrote:
> >> Does anyone
> > > know if air-cooled would be a problem on a 100 degree Texas summer day?
> > > Any help would be appreciated.
> >
> > i know plenty of guys who ride air cooled bikes here in austin. hell,
> > when i was living in sacramento (similar summer heat), i rode an air
> > cooled bike.
I thought the summer heat would reduce it to a formless lump of melted steel and
aluminum!
;-)
Just kidding!
> FWIW, remember that engines can't feel humidity. IOW, 90 degrees with 90%
> humidity feels a lot hotter to us living creatures than 90 degrees with 10%
> humidity, but it's the same temperature (makes no difference) to an engine.
> Not that it answers your question or anything... ;-) Personally, I don't
> think you'll have a problem.
Actually engines DO feel humidity in the air. Increasing humidity decreases the
effective air density. And it makes a big difference!
> > i don't think it's a problem unless you get stuck in traffic for an
> > extended period of time or you let the bike run lean (eg: not rejetting
> > after putting a different exhaust on).
> > -Beth
Hey Beth, do you legs get medium-well done from it?
Later,
Blake
1998 Tigger BRG - water powered
--
CUM CATAPULTAE PROSCRIPTAE ERUNT TUM SOLI PROSCRIPTI CATAPULTAS HABEBUNT.
(When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults....)
Triumph Tiger Motorcycle page at: http://www.tiac.net/users/blakem/
David Alexander
<stac...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>I am trying to decide between the 750 Ace and 650 Vstar. The fact the the
>Vstar is air cooled worries me because I live in Texas. I asked the Yamaha
>dealer if it would pose a problem for me and he said no. But, he is trying
>to sell a bike so I bet he'd say whatever I wanted to hear. Does anyone
>know if air-cooled would be a problem on a 100 degree Texas summer day? Any
>help would be appreciated.
I had the same concern when I was buying my bike. I live in Phoenix
and was looking at the V-Star and Shadow Sabre. What I learned was
that both engines will be reliable because they were engineered with
air or liquid cooling in mind. An air cooled engine will have looser
tolerances that make it reliable for the long run with wider
temperature variations. Likewise, liquid cooled engines will have
tighter tolerances because their temp ranges are more controlled.
Either one will be reliable because they're engineered to be.
Just try not to get stuck in stop and go traffic for long periods of
time. Try to keep moving.
BTW, I settled on the V-Star 1100 Classic. Great machine! I have no
doubt the Honda is a great bike too, but in my evaluation the only
winning point for the Honda was the liquid cooling. The Yamaha won on
points such as better brakes (the 1100 has dual disc up front), fit
and finish, and styling (very subjective). I was looking at the
Shadow Sabre and I didn't like the looks of the afterthought-like
speedo and the ugly radiator. The Yamaha also fit me better as far as
the seating height and position go. Either bike is great, just get
the one the feels and looks best to you.
Michael Freeman
Shawn Tackett wrote:
> I am trying to decide between the 750 Ace and 650 Vstar. The fact the the
> Vstar is air cooled worries me because I live in Texas. I asked the Yamaha
> dealer if it would pose a problem for me and he said no. But, he is trying
> to sell a bike so I bet he'd say whatever I wanted to hear. Does anyone
> know if air-cooled would be a problem on a 100 degree Texas summer day? Any
> help would be appreciated.
Texas, shmexas. Just how much difference do you think an extra 10 C makes to
an engine running at >200 C?
MJF
"South Austin: We're all Here, 'Cause we ain't all There"
Beth
> Hey Beth, do you legs get medium-well done from it?
only on the GS. the SV doesn't cook my legs too badly. :) other parts
get hot when i ride the SV...
Harry K Smith
: FWIW, remember that engines can't feel humidity. IOW, 90 degrees with 90%
: humidity feels a lot hotter to us living creatures than 90 degrees with 10%
: humidity, but it's the same temperature (makes no difference) to an engine.
: Not that it answers your question or anything... ;-) Personally, I don't
: think you'll have a problem.
Actually, being very humid would help keep an engine cool. You know how
you suddenly get really cold when you ride through a patch of fog? Same
thing. The water in the air helps to speed the transfer of heat, be it
from your skin to the air, or from your engine to the air.
Still, I don't think it would make THAT big of a difference.
Harry
'83 Suzuki GR650 Tempter
'91 Suzuki VX800
Daniel Gatti
> effective air density. And it makes a big difference!
What?!? How much is the density of air changed by humidity?
If it's such a big difference, why don't I feel it when I'm
breathing? And, more importantly, how is the heat capacity
of humid air different from dry air? This doesn't sound
right.
Daniel Gatti
>
> mrdancer (mrdanceratcamalottdotcom) wrote:
>
> : FWIW, remember that engines can't feel humidity. IOW, 90 degrees with 90%
> : humidity feels a lot hotter to us living creatures than 90 degrees with 10%
> : humidity, but it's the same temperature (makes no difference) to an engine.
> : Not that it answers your question or anything... ;-) Personally, I don't
> : think you'll have a problem.
>
> Actually, being very humid would help keep an engine cool. You know how
> you suddenly get really cold when you ride through a patch of fog? Same
> thing. The water in the air helps to speed the transfer of heat, be it
> from your skin to the air, or from your engine to the air.
But fog isn't the same as high humidity. When people say
'high humidity' I think that they are referring to air that
is full of water, but not condensing to form droplets yet.
In fog, the humidity is high, but there's the added factor
of little droplets of water in the air. So a brief ride
through fog is more akin to riding through a patch of rain
than suddenly being in high humidity. Water condensing on
the engine and then evaporating would cool in some. But in
high humidity without any condensation, I'm not sure that
there is any difference.
slep...@my-deja.com
About 10 degrees! That's enough to affect how your engine operates.
I find that my air cooled engine will develop a knock after sitting in
traffic on a really hot day. It goes away after a few minutes of riding
though. Having air blow past the engine cools it a whole lot better
than still air. If I know I'm going to deal with a lot of traffic and
stoplights and such on a hot day, I'll try to tank up with high octane
fuel.
I also find that my air cooled cranium will develop serious problems
after sitting in traffic on a really hot day. It too goes away after a
few minutes of riding.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Greg Havican
stac...@prodigy.net says...
>
> I am trying to decide between the 750 Ace and 650 Vstar. The fact the the
> Vstar is air cooled worries me because I live in Texas. I asked the Yamaha
> dealer if it would pose a problem for me and he said no. But, he is trying
> to sell a bike so I bet he'd say whatever I wanted to hear. Does anyone
> know if air-cooled would be a problem on a 100 degree Texas summer day? Any
> help would be appreciated.
That really depends on the type of riding you're planning on doing.
It's it's mostly highway riding and riding at speed, then air cooled
is just fine. If you're planning on doing mostly in town and low
speed riding, there is the possibility that air cooling can present a
problem.
When I had my KZ750 (which was air cooled) in Houston and Austin, the
only time I really had problems was in stop and go traffic and low
speed traffic. I never had a problem at freeway speeds, even on the
hottest day.
Greg
--
Greg Havican
g...@havican.com
http://www.havican.com
Onethumb
Wouldn't a high moisture content mean that there is less available capacity in
the air to "hold" the gas ionization in the carbs?
--
Mark Johnson, Fort Worth, Texas
onethumb at airmail dot net
Onethumb
> Texas, shmexas. Just how much difference do you think an extra 10 C makes to
> an engine running at >200 C?
>
> MJF
> "South Austin: We're all Here, 'Cause we ain't all There"
Ask that of the HD riders who get stuck in traffic and are forced to shut down
their bikes because the motor is about to seize.
Daniel Gatti
>
> Daniel Gatti wrote:
> >
> > > Actually engines DO feel humidity in the air. Increasing humidity decreases the
> > > effective air density. And it makes a big difference!
> >
> > What?!? How much is the density of air changed by humidity?
> > If it's such a big difference, why don't I feel it when I'm
> > breathing? And, more importantly, how is the heat capacity
> > of humid air different from dry air? This doesn't sound
> > right.
>
> Wouldn't a high moisture content mean that there is less available capacity in
> the air to "hold" the gas ionization in the carbs?
Gas ionization? I'm not sure what that means. Sorry.
Michael Freeman
> > Texas, shmexas. Just how much difference do you think an extra 10 C
> makes to
> > an engine running at >200 C?
> >
> > MJF
>
> About 10 degrees! That's enough to affect how your engine operates.
>
> I find that my air cooled engine will develop a knock after sitting in
> traffic on a really hot day. It goes away after a few minutes of riding
> though. Having air blow past the engine cools it a whole lot better
> than still air. If I know I'm going to deal with a lot of traffic and
> stoplights and such on a hot day, I'll try to tank up with high octane
> fuel.
You miss the point. I'm saying that riding an air-cooled bike in Texas is
no different than running one in Ohio or Arizona. Air-cooled motorcycles
are designed to work on this here planet and unless you live in the
Antartic, where you live doesn't make any difference.
And I defy you to show a significant difference in how your street bike
performs with a 10 C change in ambient temperature. Your anecdote has
nothing whatsoever to do with ambient temperatures, but rather with air
flow.
> I also find that my air cooled cranium will develop serious problems
> after sitting in traffic on a really hot day. It too goes away after a
> few minutes of riding.
So, you're saying you were sitting in traffic on a hot day when you wrote
this post?
MJF
Michael Freeman
Onethumb wrote:
> Michael Freeman wrote:
> > Texas, shmexas. Just how much difference do you think an extra 10 C makes to
> > an engine running at >200 C?
> >
> > MJF
>
> Ask that of the HD riders who get stuck in traffic and are forced to shut down
> their bikes because the motor is about to seize.
> --
>
> Mark Johnson, Fort Worth, Texas
> onethumb at airmail dot net
What in the world does being "stuck in traffic" have to do with ambient
temperatures? If the bikes in question have to shut down at 30 C in a given
situation, they'll have to do it at 20 C.
If a little knowledge is dangerous, you should've been covered in SALT II.
MJF
Blake Mantel
> Daniel Gatti wrote:
> > >Blake Mantel wrote:
> > > Actually engines DO feel humidity in the air. Increasing humidity decreases the
> > > effective air density. And it makes a big difference!
> >
> > What?!? How much is the density of air changed by humidity?
> > If it's such a big difference, why don't I feel it when I'm
> > breathing? And, more importantly, how is the heat capacity
> > of humid air different from dry air? This doesn't sound
> > right.
Well it really has to do with air's effective density. Hotter or more humid = less
dense.
> Wouldn't a high moisture content mean that there is less available capacity in
> the air to "hold" the gas ionization in the carbs?
> Mark Johnson, Fort Worth, Texas
Don't exactly understand what you are saying here. But if you mean less available
oxygen for combustion, then yes is the answer.
What is the elevation of the Fort Worth area? I can spin the whiz wheel on my flight
computer and give you a
"for example" answer.
Later,
Blake
1998 Tiger at 100ft MSL
Daniel Gatti
> dense.
OK. So what is "effective density?" I've heard of specific
density and just plain density. But I'm not familiar with
effective density.
Let me try to do some back of the envelope calculations
here:
(1) PV=nRT
where P = pressure in atmospheres
V = volume of the gas in litres
n = number of mols of gas
R = Gas constant = 0.0821 (L-atm)/(mol-K)
T = Temperature in Kelvins
First let's change the equation over to a mass equation
instead of mols.
(2) n = m/M
where m = mass of gas in grams
n = mols of gas in mols
M = molecular weight of gas in g/mol
(3) PV = mRT/M
We want the density, which is mass over volume, so I'll
solve to that on the left:
(4) d = m/V = PM/RT
where d = density in g/litre.
Lastly, I'll use a constant pressure of 1 atmosphere since
we are really interested in the effect of temperature on
density.
(5) d = M/RT
Air is made up of 21% Oxygen (M = 32.00 g/mol) and 79%
Nitrogen (M=28.01 g/mol). These are on a by volume basis.
There are other trace gases, but they make up about 1% of
the atmosphere, so I'm going to ignore them. The effective
molecular weight is the molecular weight of the two main
gasses combined. The effective molecular weight of air is
then:
(4) (32.00 * 0.21) + (28.01 * 0.79) = 28.85 g/mol
Now we can finally calculate the density of air. I'll use
one mol of gas at 25ºC. (This is about 77ºF and we have to
use 298 Kelvins)
(5) d = (28.85)/(0.0821*298.15) = 1.18 g/L
Out of curiosity, let's up the temperature to 100ºF (37.8ºC)
(6) d = (28.85)/(0.0821*310.8) = 1.13 g/L
That's a change of 0.05 g/L. Which is about a 4% change. So
going from 77ºF to 100ºF decreases the density of air by
about 4%. Note that this may not mean a decrease in the
ability of the air to
What about humidity? Air at 100ºF can hold about 45 grams of
water per kilogram of air. So we need to use this to
calculate a new effective molecular weight.
First we have to convert the saturation value to mols:
(7) 45 g water / kg air = 0.045 g water/ g air
(8) (0.045 g water * 18.016 g/mol)
------------------------------
(1 g air * 28.85 g/mol)
= 0.0281 mol water / mol air
And calculate the new effective molecular weight:
(9) (0.0281 * 18.016) + (1-0.0281)*(28.85) = 28.55 g/mol
Now we can substitute this into equation 5 and get the
density of saturated air at 100ºF:
(10) d = (28.55)/(0.0821*310.8) = 1.12 g/L
This is less than a 1% change.
Just as a side note: in designing heat exchangers I've never
taken into account the humidity of the air, only the
temperature. But at normal temperatures, the effect of
humidity on heating or cooling of inert objects is
negligible. Object that need to evaporate water into air to
cool themselves (i.e. people) are greatly affected by the
amount of water in the air.
slep...@my-deja.com
mfree...@earthlink.net wrote:
> slep...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > > Texas, shmexas. Just how much difference do you think an extra 10
C
> > makes to
> > > an engine running at >200 C?
> > >
> > > MJF
> >
> >
> > I find that my air cooled engine will develop a knock after sitting
in
> > traffic on a really hot day. It goes away after a few minutes of
riding
> > though. Having air blow past the engine cools it a whole lot better
> > than still air. If I know I'm going to deal with a lot of traffic
and
> > stoplights and such on a hot day, I'll try to tank up with high
octane
> > fuel.
>
> You miss the point. I'm saying that riding an air-cooled bike in Texas
is
> no different than running one in Ohio or Arizona. Air-cooled
motorcycles
> are designed to work on this here planet and unless you live in the
> Antartic, where you live doesn't make any difference.
>
> And I defy you to show a significant difference in how your street
bike
> performs with a 10 C change in ambient temperature. Your anecdote has
> nothing whatsoever to do with ambient temperatures, but rather with
air
> flow.
>
Now, hold on there! I never said "significant". Its not like hot air
(even Texas-hot) is going to render the engine inoperable. Its just
possible that higher air temperature can have a perceptable affect on
how the engine runs. In the spring and fall, when the air is not as hot,
my air-cooled motorcycle will sit and idle all day in traffic and get as
hot as it can and not ping with 87 octane fuel. On a hot summer day,
idleing in traffic will cause it to ping when pulling away from a
stoplight, for example. It goes away with higher octane, and it doesn't
happen when there's good cooling air flow. So, there you go, solid
observational *proof* that my air-cooled motorcycle is affected by an
increase in ambient air temperature. Significant? Not really. But our
friend from Texas asked, so I told him what I observed. So there :).
slep...@my-deja.com
mfree...@earthlink.net wrote:
>
>
> Onethumb wrote:
>
> > Michael Freeman wrote:
> > > Texas, shmexas. Just how much difference do you think an extra 10
C makes to
> > > an engine running at >200 C?
> > >
> > > MJF
> >
shut down
> > their bikes because the motor is about to seize.
> > --
> >
>
> What in the world does being "stuck in traffic" have to do with
ambient
> temperatures? If the bikes in question have to shut down at 30 C in a
given
> situation, they'll have to do it at 20 C.
Probably because when you are stopped in traffic, your mechanism for
heat transfer from the engine to the air is natural convection and
radiation. When you're off zooming down the road, the engine is cooled
mainly by forced convection (and to a lesser extent radiation), which in
general is much more effective. Since heat transfer is a function of
temperature gradient (among other things), a decrease in temperature
gradient (by increasing the ambient air temperature) will result in a
loss of cooling ability, resulting in higher combustion chamber
temperatures, resulting in the possibility of pre-ignition, which in the
long temr can lead to premature engine failure.
>
> If a little knowledge is dangerous, you should've been covered in SALT
II.
>
> MJF
>
>
Pot... kettle... black.
Onethumb
>
> Onethumb wrote:
>
> > Michael Freeman wrote:
> > > Texas, shmexas. Just how much difference do you think an extra 10 C makes to
> > > an engine running at >200 C?
> > >
> > > MJF
> >
> > Ask that of the HD riders who get stuck in traffic and are forced to shut down
> > their bikes because the motor is about to seize.
> > --
> >
> > Mark Johnson, Fort Worth, Texas
> > onethumb at airmail dot net
>
> What in the world does being "stuck in traffic" have to do with ambient
> temperatures? If the bikes in question have to shut down at 30 C in a given
> situation, they'll have to do it at 20 C.
>
>
> MJF
Don't flame me for a fact of life. I have - on many occasions - seen air
cooled "big twins" forced to shut off their bikes in either stop-and-go
traffic or in parades when the bike got so hot it started loudly clattering. I
was told BY THOSE OWNERS that it was their "sign" that the motor was a bout
the seize from overheating. There is only so much tollerance built into the
parts. When the engine heat goes beyond the designed operating limits they'll
have problems. When the motor can't scavange enough heat away into the air,
and when the oil has absorbed all it can - there's no place left for the heat
to go. When the ambient temp is high enough and there's not enough air flow
(slow, stopped) then that limit it reached faster and more easily.
--
Mark Johnson, Fort Worth, Texas
onethumb at airmail dot net
It's tough taking sides in an argument between Charlton Heston and Bill
Clinton. On one side you have a classic actor trained to fake emotion
for the camera, trained to win you over with a well rehearsed script and
then on the other side you have Charlton Heston."
-- Allyson Smith, San Diego Tribune, 3/22/2000
Michael Freeman
Onethumb wrote:
> Michael Freeman wrote:
> > What in the world does being "stuck in traffic" have to do with ambient
> > temperatures? If the bikes in question have to shut down at 30 C in a given
> > situation, they'll have to do it at 20 C.
>
> Don't flame me for a fact of life. I have - on many occasions - seen air
> cooled "big twins" forced to shut off their bikes in either stop-and-go
> traffic or in parades when the bike got so hot it started loudly clattering. I
> was told BY THOSE OWNERS that it was their "sign" that the motor was a bout
> the seize from overheating. There is only so much tollerance built into the
> parts. When the engine heat goes beyond the designed operating limits they'll
> have problems. When the motor can't scavange enough heat away into the air,
> and when the oil has absorbed all it can - there's no place left for the heat
> to go. When the ambient temp is high enough and there's not enough air flow
> (slow, stopped) then that limit it reached faster and more easily.
I can't decide if this is a tactic or unconscious on your part. Meaning, you have a
singular ability for ignoring the point at hand and instead arguing a point you can
defend easily. Very easily since no one is contesting it in the first place.
Either way, you have proven once again to not be worth an actual response.
Remind me to ignore you in the future.
MJF
"Loud Shirts Save Lives"
Daniel Gatti
> temperatures? If the bikes in question have to shut down at 30 C in a given
> situation, they'll have to do it at 20 C.
Let me make sure that I understand what you are saying. You
are saying that a 10ºC change in temperature cannot affect a
motorcycle's ability to cool itself?
Brian McLaughlin
> > Well it really has to do with air's effective density. Hotter or more
humid = less
> > dense.
>
> OK. So what is "effective density?" I've heard of specific
> density and just plain density. But I'm not familiar with
> effective density.
>
> Let me try to do some back of the envelope calculations
> here:
<snip calculations>
What is meant by less dense, is that as humidity rises, the
amount of oxygen in a given volume will decrease. As a 2
stroke road racer, I tracked the humidity and used it to
adjust the readings on the RAD gauge for jetting. I don't
have the stuff at work with me. As humidity increased, all
other factors remaining constant, one would have to lean
their jetting.
As temp increases I see a difference in cooling ability.
TZs use tape on the radiator (no thermostat) to control
temperature. You want to see about 60 to 62F on the
temp gauge. I have raced from temps of 30F to 105F.
A change of 10C (18F) is a huge change. I would have to
change the amount of tape on my radiator to keep the
engine running at the same temp.
For an air cooled bike sitting in stop and go traffic, a difference
of 10C would be significant. The rate of heat exchange is
a function of temperature difference between the engine
and the air.
--
Brian McLaughlin AP #1 NGI #7 BMoZ #[classified]
TZ250E (1993-96) 2 strokes smoke
R1100RT (1997) 4 strokes choke
EX250 Ninja (1998)
RBA
McLaughlin) wrote:
>A change of 10C (18F) is a huge change. I would have to
>change the amount of tape on my radiator to keep the
>engine running at the same temp.
>
>For an air cooled bike sitting in stop and go traffic, a difference
>of 10C would be significant. The rate of heat exchange is
>a function of temperature difference between the engine
>and the air.
(Waving hand in air) Uh, professor?
I agree a 10C difference is significant, but isn't it a bit more than 18F?
Using the Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion formula of
C(9/5)+32=F
wouldn't that make a 10C change equal to 50F?
Blake Mantel
> > Well it really has to do with air's effective density. Hotter or more humid = less
> > dense.
>
> OK. So what is "effective density?" I've heard of specific
> density and just plain density. But I'm not familiar with
> effective density.
>
> Let me try to do some back of the envelope calculations
> here:
SNIP!!!
Pivnert stuff...... I love it!
> What about humidity? Air at 100ºF can hold about 45 grams of
> water per kilogram of air. So we need to use this to
> calculate a new effective molecular weight.
> Now we can substitute this into equation 5 and get the
> density of saturated air at 100ºF:
SNIP!
> (10) d = (28.55)/(0.0821*310.8) = 1.12 g/L
>
> This is less than a 1% change.
You made an assumption that after the mass of water is dissolved into the mass of air
that the approximate volume is still the same at the original starting system pressure.
Also there a much less significant change to the specific heat of the saturated air, but
it's minor I'm sure.
Later,
Blake
--
CUM CATAPULTAE PROSCRIPTAE ERUNT TUM SOLI PROSCRIPTI CATAPULTAS HABEBUNT.
(When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults....)
Triumph Tiger Motorcycle page at: http://www.tiac.net/users/blakem/
My Email address is altered due to the prevalence of bulk Email senders.
To send me mail remove the two *'s before the TIAC.NET.
James Clark
RBA wrote:
9:5 is the ratio. 32 is just a shift.
Dan Nitschke
>
> (Waving hand in air) Uh, professor?
> I agree a 10C difference is significant, but isn't it a bit more than 18F?
Nope. Celsius degrees are bigger than the Fahrenheit
variety, and 9/5 is the fraction.
> Using the Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion formula of
>
> C(9/5)+32=F
>
> wouldn't that make a 10C change equal to 50F?
You just figured out that 10蚓 is equal to 50蚌. That
isn't the same thing.
--
/* dan: The Anti-Ged, BOF #26, GAGARPHOF (tm) #1, LCDB (tm) #1 */
Dan Nitschke ^^ peDA...@best.com ^^ nits...@annuncio.com
**********************************************************
The brim of my hat hides the eye of a beast; I've the face
of a sinner, but the hands of a priest. -- Sting
Flash - DoD #412
> > wouldn't that make a 10C change equal to 50F?
Dan Nitschke wrote:
> You just figured out that 10蚓 is equal to 50蚌. That
> isn't the same thing.
RBA ("Do you want fries with that?") must have a liberal arts degree.
- Flash - DoD #412
Brian McLaughlin
> RBA wrote:
> >
> > (Waving hand in air) Uh, professor?
> > I agree a 10C difference is significant, but isn't it a bit more than 18F?
>
> Nope. Celsius degrees are bigger than the Fahrenheit
> variety, and 9/5 is the fraction.
>
> > Using the Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion formula of
> >
> > C(9/5)+32=F
> >
> > wouldn't that make a 10C change equal to 50F?
>
> You just figured out that 10蚓 is equal to 50蚌. That
> isn't the same thing.
Thank you Dan. I was wondering how many people
would jump at that.
I have seen several magazines make the
same mistake. A manufacturer gives a temp change due
to a new radiator design, the temp change is given in deg C.
The magazine editor then converts using the formula for
temperature, not for temperature change.
Don't people notice that 0C is freezing, and 100C is boiling
for water. Therefore if a change of 10C is equal to 50F, a change
of 100C would be 500F. So the difference between freezing and
boiling would have to be 500F. I see many students do incorrect
conversions without thinking about the implications of the conversion
(like 10m = 10000km).
RBA
>> RBA wrote:
>> > wouldn't that make a 10C change equal to 50F?
>
>Dan Nitschke wrote:
>> You just figured out that 10蚓 is equal to 50蚌. That
>> isn't the same thing.
>
>RBA ("Do you want fries with that?") must have a liberal arts degree.
>
> - Flash - DoD #412
Ok, duly chastised.
As for the liberal arts degree, uh, well, I, umm... hey, look over there!
(Makes hasty exit, stage left)
Blake Mantel
Don't sweat it!
Remember some multi-million Mars mission a while ago that accidentally impacted
into the planet instead of softly landing cuz some scientist could not convert
between Metric and English measurement. Oh well it's only taxpayer money...
Though I think that we (USA et al) should throw in the towel and go completely
metric. It's stupid to have both sizes on my damn car, my bike is at least all
Metric!
Blake
1998 Tiger Metric BRG
Brian McLaughlin
> RBA wrote:
>
> > fl...@REMOVE.deathstar.org wrote:
> > >> RBA wrote:
> > >> > wouldn't that make a 10C change equal to 50F?
> > >
> > >Dan Nitschke wrote:
> > >> You just figured out that 10蚓 is equal to 50蚌. That
> > >> isn't the same thing.
> > >
> > >RBA ("Do you want fries with that?") must have a liberal arts degree.
> > > - Flash - DoD #412
> >
> > Ok, duly chastised.
> > As for the liberal arts degree, uh, well, I, umm... hey, look over there!
> > (Makes hasty exit, stage left)
>
> Don't sweat it!
>
> Remember some multi-million Mars mission a while ago that accidentally
impacted
> into the planet instead of softly landing cuz some scientist could not convert
> between Metric and English measurement. Oh well it's only taxpayer money...
ISTR the term engineer being used in reference to the screwed up conversion.