R1 vs Carrera4:
Rayvan
Dean
Rayvan wrote:
> Car nut friend sent me this...
>
> www.dumpalink.com/media/1132741608/Yamaha_R1_Vs._Porsche_Carrera
>
"Motorbicycle". I love that!
It would be interesting to see that with the latest liter bikes wearing
race rubber. There might be just enough to eke out the win.
Cars have one huge advantage as far as I'm concerned: the consequences
of a crash are so much lower that it is far easier to drive right at
the edge. So for an average driver vs. an average rider, I think the
car would win every time.
lub...@hotmail.com
I haven't seen the video yet (except for the very beginning), but the
host of that show, Jeremy Clarkson, hates motorcycles with a passion
and is apparently an asshole to boot. So if the Porsche ends up beating
the bike in that video I'd look at how fairly the test was conducted.
Depending how a car vs. bike race is set up, either could win. With
lots of tight, slow corners and chicanes and short straights a bike
would have an advantage. Fast corners and very long straights would
favor a car. But even then you'd need a car about 10 times as expensive
as the bike...
-Gniewko
Michael Sierchio
> I haven't seen the video yet (except for the very beginning), but the
> host of that show, Jeremy Clarkson, hates motorcycles with a passion
> and is apparently an asshole to boot. So if the Porsche ends up beating
> the bike in that video I'd look at how fairly the test was conducted.
>
> Depending how a car vs. bike race is set up, either could win. With
> lots of tight, slow corners and chicanes and short straights a bike
> would have an advantage. Fast corners and very long straights would
> favor a car. But even then you'd need a car about 10 times as expensive
> as the bike...
Never mind that a car is a pig on the track when compared with
a bike -- passing a car with a bike is a bit dicier, esp. with
all that power sliding going on. I wouldn't be on the track
at the same time as a car, personally. But let's see what kind
of lap times we can turn...
--
"Well," Brahma said, "even after ten thousand explanations, a fool is no
wiser, but an intelligent man requires only two thousand five hundred."
- The Mahabharata
Don't send me email replies -- this is a honeypot address for unsolicited
commercial email.
Vito
> Car nut friend sent me this...
>
> www.dumpalink.com/media/1132741608/Yamaha_R1_Vs._Porsche_Carrera
>
> http://www.dumpalink.com/media/1132741608/Yamaha_R1_Vs._Porsche_Carrera
>
Porsche still carries more speed in any corner than modern sport bike.
Shows what crap they really are.
lub...@hotmail.com
Since when is a Carrera4 a poor... Oh I see. Never mind. Troll on.
Cars have the advantage of aerodynamics - air dams and wings generate
downforce and push the car down, which increases the grip available to
tires. For some cars that effect is big enough that they could
theoretically drive on the ceiling (above a certain speed, of course).
That's why F1 cars can corner and brake at about 4G.
Bikes don't have air dams and wings, so they can't corner quite as
hard. But in very slow corners - where speeds are too low for cars to
generate much downforce - shorter wheelbase and lower width gives bikes
an advantage.
Again, in a car vs. bike race you can make either the car or the bike
win, depending on how you set up the contest. Supermoto against F1
racecar on a go-cart track, anyone?
-Gniewko
Greek Shipping Magnets
wrote:
>Car nut friend sent me this...
>
>www.dumpalink.com/media/1132741608/Yamaha_R1_Vs._Porsche_Carrera
LOL. Why do they always include the mullet guitar solo at the
beginning of all those car shows anyways?
I still say the bike would'a been the winner with Rossi on board!
Greek Shipping Magnets
>Interesting that even a relatively poor handling car like a rear-engined
>Porsche still carries more speed in any corner than modern sport bike.
>Shows what crap they really are.
You're smoking crystal if you think a Carerra 4 is "poor handling". I
used to have a GF with one (daddy!) and that baby could cook. The
"bite you in the ass if you aren't careful" aspect of the rear engine
layout was seriously minimized by the front wheels pulling you around.
Way more corner speed with far less skill than any RWD getup. Just
don't piss your pants and let off the throttle cause then it's bye-bye
Carerra style!
That bunk about "4 wheel drive making it slower on a dry track" is
pure BS. AWD is excluded in many race classes simply because it is an
unfair advantage. Got the same impression when I drove the WRX. "Speed
for Dummies".
Just don't let off that throttle! Cause you're carrying more corner
speed than 2WD can handle.
Rayvan
I'm still trying to figure out how the guy did a RWD doughnut in a 4WD
car! ???
Can you switch it off?
Cam Penner
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, rvann...@cachevision.com
says...
Well he initiated it with a careful run off onto the grass
to get the back end going. Dunno enough about the Porsche
AWD setup to figure out how he KEPT it going.
--
Cam
'89 RZ 350 - Sold
'00 Sprint RS
Albert Nurick
> Greek Shipping Magnets wrote:
> > You're smoking crystal if you think a Carerra 4 is "poor handling".
> > I used to have a GF with one (daddy!) and that baby could cook. The
> > "bite you in the ass if you aren't careful" aspect of the rear
> > engine layout was seriously minimized by the front wheels pulling
> > you around. Way more corner speed with far less skill than any RWD
> > getup. Just don't piss your pants and let off the throttle cause
> > then it's bye-bye Carerra style!
> >
> > That bunk about "4 wheel drive making it slower on a dry track" is
> > pure BS. AWD is excluded in many race classes simply because it is
> > an unfair advantage. Got the same impression when I drove the WRX.
> > "Speed for Dummies".
>
> I'm still trying to figure out how the guy did a RWD doughnut in a 4WD
> car! ???
There's also the question of WHY you'd do this on a television program;
this speaks to the sophistication of the writers.
--
Albert Nurick | "Everyone is entitled to his own
alb...@nurick.com | opinion, but not his own facts."
www.nurick.com |
04 FJR1300A / RCOS #7 | - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Tim Kreitz
> That bunk about "4 wheel drive making it slower on a dry track" is
> pure BS. AWD is excluded in many race classes simply because it is an
> unfair advantage. Got the same impression when I drove the WRX. "Speed
> for Dummies".
Damn straight. Not to mention the fact that these types of contests are
all a question of venue, anyway. Pit the two vehicles against each
other on a dragstip and the R1 destroys the Porsche. By the same token,
this race would've been downright humiliating for the car had it been
held at a circuit such as Mugello or Suzuka.
I'm sounding a little salty right now, but that video is the visual
equivalent of a statistical debate. Given the right parameters and
algorithms, virtually any result can be produced.
Cheers,
Tim Kreitz
2003 ZX7R
2000 ZX6R
DoD #2184
http://www.timkreitz.com
Tim Kreitz
> That bunk about "4 wheel drive making it slower on a dry track" is
> pure BS. AWD is excluded in many race classes simply because it is an
> unfair advantage. Got the same impression when I drove the WRX. "Speed
> for Dummies".
Damn straight. Not to mention the fact that these types of contests are
P.Roehling
"Tim Kreitz" <timk...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> I'm sounding a little salty right now, but that video is the visual
> equivalent of a statistical debate. Given the right parameters and
> algorithms, virtually any result can be produced.
And apparently that includes doubled posts!
Pete
Hank
> Car nut friend sent me this...
> www.dumpalink.com/media/1132741608/Yamaha_R1_Vs._Porsche_Carrera
Quite entertaining. The R1 killing the Porsche on
accel didn't suprise me, but the Porsche out cornering
the R1 so easily did.
-
Here's what happens to steel framed buildings exposed
to raging infernos for hours on end.
http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr69c.html
On 9-11-01, WTC7, a 47 story steel framed building, which
had only small, random fires, dropped in perfect symmetry
at near free fall speed as in a perfectly executed controlled
demolition.
http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/videos.html
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
http://wtc7.net/articles/FEMA/WTC_ch5.htm
Ever wonder who benefits from the 150 MILLION
U.S. taxpayer dollars spent each DAY in Iraq?
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0223-08.htm
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=21
"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm
Rayvan
Albert Nurick wrote:
> Rayvan wrote:
>
> > Greek Shipping Magnets wrote:
> > > You're smoking crystal if you think a Carerra 4 is "poor handling".
> > > I used to have a GF with one (daddy!) and that baby could cook. The
> > > "bite you in the ass if you aren't careful" aspect of the rear
> > > engine layout was seriously minimized by the front wheels pulling
> > > you around. Way more corner speed with far less skill than any RWD
> > > getup. Just don't piss your pants and let off the throttle cause
> > > then it's bye-bye Carerra style!
> > >
> > > That bunk about "4 wheel drive making it slower on a dry track" is
> > > pure BS. AWD is excluded in many race classes simply because it is
> > > an unfair advantage. Got the same impression when I drove the WRX.
> > > "Speed for Dummies".
> >
> > I'm still trying to figure out how the guy did a RWD doughnut in a 4WD
> > car! ???
>
> There's also the question of WHY you'd do this on a television program;
> this speaks to the sophistication of the writers.
No kidding!
The dickhead says (I'm paraphrasing) "I don't ride motorcycles, because
I am a heterosexual and I don't like wearing rubber pants" or somesuch.
Makes me wish the rider of the R1 would have run his ass over!
Hank
>>www.dumpalink.com/media/1132741608/Yamaha_R1_Vs._Porsche_Carrera
>>http://www.dumpalink.com/media/1132741608/Yamaha_R1_Vs._Porsche_Carrera
You know even less about cars than you do the world
around you.
-
Here's what happens to steel framed buildings exposed
to raging infernos for hours on end.
http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr69c.html
On 9-11-01, WTC7, a 47 story steel framed building, which
had only small, random fires, dropped in perfect symmetry
at near free fall speed as in a perfectly executed controlled
demolition.
http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/videos.html
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
http://wtc7.net/articles/FEMA/WTC_ch5.htm
"You're doin' a heckuva job, Brownie!" - bu$h, a few days
before his FEMA chief, Micheal Brown was forced to resign
because of his gross incompetence.
"The tools that enable Cuba to save lives and preserve
human dignity during hurricanes are socialist values
and organization." - Dr. W.T. Whitney Jr
Hank
> I'm still trying to figure out how the guy did a RWD doughnut
> in a 4WD car! ???
The torque isn't split evenly between front and
rear. It varies between 5% to 40% going to the
front. I did notice that he got it started in
the grass...
-
Here's what happens to steel framed buildings exposed
to raging infernos for hours on end.
http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr69c.html
On 9-11-01, WTC7, a 47 story steel framed building, which
had only small, random fires, dropped in perfect symmetry
at near free fall speed as in a perfectly executed controlled
demolition.
http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/videos.html
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
http://wtc7.net/articles/FEMA/WTC_ch5.htm
entropy_magnet
There was a video a while back with a R1 vs a 911 GTS (III I think, tho it
might have been a II) at the Nurbergring. Basically, the R1 couldn't keep
up all the time due to traction limitations. Maybe on a warmer day with
track tires . . .
It was fun to watch them pass panel vans, etc tho.
Greek Shipping Magnets
wrote:
>I'm sounding a little salty right now, but that video is the visual
>equivalent of a statistical debate. Given the right parameters and
>algorithms, virtually any result can be produced.
Perhaps Hansteen is also a TV producer in England?
Greek Shipping Magnets
wrote:
>I'm still trying to figure out how the guy did a RWD doughnut in a 4WD
>car! ???
>
>Can you switch it off?
Not to my knowledge. It's full time viscous coupling.
Prolly just used the brakes and cooked the rears (discs AND tires that
is). All that engine juice has to be transferred someplace and the
rear is the main driver while the fronts are the main discs. Easily
holding back the front wheels and the puny differential while the rear
lights up.
Ahhhh... the pleasures of a borrowed car...
Greek Shipping Magnets
>I did notice that he got it started in
>the grass...
I noticed you got started in the grass too. Maybe it's time for rehab?
It's a gateway drug you know...
Tim Kreitz
LOL!!!!
sqidbait
> Rayvan wrote:
> > I'm still trying to figure out how the guy did a RWD doughnut in a 4WD
> > car! ???
>
> There's also the question of WHY you'd do this on a television program;
> this speaks to the sophistication of the writers.
They do it because it's fun.
In another episode they rigged up a C4 Corvette so that it could
be driven remotely, took it out to the desert, and drove it around
while shooting at it with a minigun from a helicopter!
-- Michael
Rayvan
Makes sense.
>
> Ahhhh... the pleasures of a borrowed car...
LOL! Never purchase a former rental car.
I also noticed that there were some previous marks where the driver got
to "rehearse" a few times... :-)
Lucky bastage!
Rayvan
Hank wrote:
> Rayvan wrote:
>
> > I'm still trying to figure out how the guy did a RWD doughnut
> > in a 4WD car! ???
>
> The torque isn't split evenly between front and
> rear. It varies between 5% to 40% going to the
> front. I did notice that he got it started in
> the grass...
True! That probably helped get the momentum going quite a bit!
David Steuber
> The dickhead says (I'm paraphrasing) "I don't ride motorcycles, because
> I am a heterosexual and I don't like wearing rubber pants" or somesuch.
>
> Makes me wish the rider of the R1 would have run his ass over!
Well, the guy was heterosexual.
--
http://www.david-steuber.com/
The UnBlog: An island of conformity in a sea of quirks.
http://www.david-steuber.com/snippets/Boycott_Sony/
David Steuber
Get an Impreza in a field full of snow and then you will know what a
gateway drug really is.
You will also wonder what you did to the car before you realize you
packed the wheels with ice.
Albert Nurick
So it's basically "Jackass" with an automotive bent and a foppish host.
Now that's entertainment. LOL.
Albert Nurick
What is the maximum steady-state cornering a modern sportbike can do on
street tires? I know that some exotic cars are around 1.0G, and even
some fairly humble sporting cages can get to 0.9G.
sqidbait
> sqidbait wrote:
>
> > Albert Nurick wrote:
> > > Rayvan wrote:
> > [snip]
> > > > I'm still trying to figure out how the guy did a RWD doughnut in
> > > > a 4WD car! ???
> > >
> > > There's also the question of WHY you'd do this on a television
> > > program; this speaks to the sophistication of the writers.
> >
> > They do it because it's fun.
> >
> > In another episode they rigged up a C4 Corvette so that it could
> > be driven remotely, took it out to the desert, and drove it around
> > while shooting at it with a minigun from a helicopter!
>
> So it's basically "Jackass" with an automotive bent and a foppish host.
> Now that's entertainment. LOL.
Nah. Most of the reviews are serious, but every now and again
they like to do something different. Like the time they tried to
drive a diesel Audi (MB?) across the UK and see just how much
range they could get out of a tank of gas...
-- Michael
PS: Yes, I thought "Jackass:The Movie" rocked. :-)
Vito
> Depending how a car vs. bike race is set up, either could win. With
> lots of tight, slow corners and chicanes and short straights a bike
> would have an advantage. Fast corners and very long straights would
> favor a car.
Actually, just the opposite is true, as the video shows. Car and bike have
about equal top speeds. The bike has it all over the car in acceleration
but the car can carry alot more speed through the corners.
Vito
> Since when is a Carrera4 a poor... Oh I see. Never mind. Troll on.
Compared to Porsche's (and other) mid-engined cars the Carrara handles
poorly.
Vito
> You're smoking crystal if you think a Carerra 4 is "poor handling".
No, but I did drive Formula Jr cars back in the 60's and that's even better.
The rear engined Porsches are RELATIVELY (as I said) poor handlers compared
to Porsche's own (and other) mid-engined machines.
Ever seen a 2000 pound gull-wing Stingray?
Vito
> this race would've been downright humiliating for the car had it been
> held at a circuit such as Mugello or Suzuka.
>
IIRC cars are faster than bikes at our local track (Summit Point) but go
carts held the track record.
Vito
> You know even less about cars than you do the world
> around you.
>
Vito
> Quite entertaining. The R1 killing the Porsche on
> accel didn't suprise me, but the Porsche out cornering
> the R1 so easily did.
>
around you"
lub...@hotmail.com
> entropy_magnet wrote:
>
> > On 8 Dec 2005 00:12:36 -0800, Rayvan wrote:
> >
> > > Car nut friend sent me this...
> > >
> > > www.dumpalink.com/media/1132741608/Yamaha_R1_Vs._Porsche_Carrera
> > >
> > > http://www.dumpalink.com/media/1132741608/Yamaha_R1_Vs._Porsche_Carr
> > > era
> >
> > There was a video a while back with a R1 vs a 911 GTS (III I think,
> > tho it might have been a II) at the Nurbergring. Basically, the R1
> > couldn't keep up all the time due to traction limitations. Maybe on
> > a warmer day with track tires . . .
> >
> > It was fun to watch them pass panel vans, etc tho.
>
> What is the maximum steady-state cornering a modern sportbike can do on
> street tires? I know that some exotic cars are around 1.0G, and even
> some fairly humble sporting cages can get to 0.9G.
When the center of gravity of bike+rider is leaned over at 45 degrees,
the bike is cornering at 1.0G. If you look at pictures from your
average track day, you'll see the fast group riders leaning over more
than 45 degrees (away from vertical). So my educated guess is that
sportbikes will corner at a bit more than 1.0G, even on street-legal
tires. GP racers (especially the smaller classes) lean over to rather
insane angles, so they corner even harder.
How hard sport cars can corner depends on how fast they're going, since
the faster they go, the more downforce they can generate (assuming they
have the requisite wings and air dams). I'm not sure how they measure
maximum cornering Gs for cars, so I don't know if the numbers quoted in
car mags are with or without the benefit of downforce. IIRC, F1 racers
corner at somewhere around 4G through the fast turns.
-Gniewko
Greek Shipping Magnets
>No, but I did drive Formula Jr cars back in the 60's and that's even better.
>The rear engined Porsches are RELATIVELY (as I said) poor handlers compared
>to Porsche's own (and other) mid-engined machines.
Ummm... no they're not. Cause AWD is a significant advatange even for
a temperamental handler like the Carrera. Unless you have wings and
shit I'm not putting money on a roadgoing 2WD outhandling the AWD
assuming equivalent performance specs.
Losing traction? Just roll on more throttle! Can't do that when you've
drifted the 2WD past "oopsie".
Albert Nurick
> Albert Nurick wrote:
> > What is the maximum steady-state cornering a modern sportbike can
> > do on street tires? I know that some exotic cars are around 1.0G,
> > and even some fairly humble sporting cages can get to 0.9G.
>
> When the center of gravity of bike+rider is leaned over at 45 degrees,
> the bike is cornering at 1.0G.
That was my assumption; grazie for the confirmation.
> If you look at pictures from your
> average track day, you'll see the fast group riders leaning over more
> than 45 degrees (away from vertical). So my educated guess is that
> sportbikes will corner at a bit more than 1.0G, even on street-legal
> tires. GP racers (especially the smaller classes) lean over to rather
> insane angles, so they corner even harder.
Makes me wonder how the Porsche could get around the track faster if an
R1 can pull over 1.0Gs.
> How hard sport cars can corner depends on how fast they're going,
> since the faster they go, the more downforce they can generate
> (assuming they have the requisite wings and air dams). I'm not sure
> how they measure maximum cornering Gs for cars, so I don't know if
> the numbers quoted in car mags are with or without the benefit of
> downforce. IIRC, F1 racers corner at somewhere around 4G through the
> fast turns.
Interesting stuff. I guess the comparison should be chalked up to a
TeeVee show with an agenda.
marika
lub...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> When the center of gravity of bike+rider is leaned over at 45 degrees,
> the bike is cornering at 1.0G.
No I can only guess its because you nver got hijacked off to Va
Beach/Hampton Roads
for whatever reason. It seems like more to me on there.
http://www.cbbt.com/history.html -- 40 years old and no major failures
. . . everything
should be built so well.
>If you look at pictures from your
> average track day, you'll see the fast group riders leaning over more
> than 45 degrees (away from vertical).
I have been IN LUV with the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel ever since I
was little,
especially since my parents would never go on it. I LOVE bridges.
would this be a part of your concious history/memories? Sadly, my
biggest
impression of Virginia growing up in LI was hearing about the James
River and oh,
i canNOT remember the name of that stuff that brought the James its ill
fame back
then. And for some odd reason, I used to think Atlantic-Richfield fuel
was based
in Richmond.
>So my educated guess is that
> sportbikes will corner at a bit more than 1.0G, even on street-legal
> tires.
how about under water?
how much more attractive that this bridge thing goes under the water.
In my ignorant,
but hopeful youth, I'd always imagined the tunnel part might be somehow
transparent,
and you could see fish and stuff as you drove along.
(unrelated humorous link I encountered while picture hunting:
http://www.pcpros.net/~oleson/VA.html
>GP racers (especially the smaller classes) lean over to rather
> insane angles, so they corner even harder.
that's what I think too.
mk5000
"But red sullen faces sneer and snarl
>From doors of mudcracked houses
If there were water
And no rock "--ts eliot, the wasteland
Gary R.
Albert Nurick wrote:
> lub...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > Albert Nurick wrote:
> > > What is the maximum steady-state cornering a modern sportbike can
> > > do on street tires? I know that some exotic cars are around 1.0G,
> > > and even some fairly humble sporting cages can get to 0.9G.
> >
> > When the center of gravity of bike+rider is leaned over at 45 degrees,
> > the bike is cornering at 1.0G.
>
> That was my assumption; grazie for the confirmation.
>
> > If you look at pictures from your
> > average track day, you'll see the fast group riders leaning over more
> > than 45 degrees (away from vertical). So my educated guess is that
> > sportbikes will corner at a bit more than 1.0G, even on street-legal
> > tires. GP racers (especially the smaller classes) lean over to rather
> > insane angles, so they corner even harder.
>
> Makes me wonder how the Porsche could get around the track faster if an
> R1 can pull over 1.0Gs.
Because a racecar pulls a lot more than 1.0Gs in the corners. SCCA
Spec Miatas pull 1.2 to 1.3 Gs in corners, up to 1.5 Gs braking, and
formula cars routinely pull more than 2.0 Gs. Because a racecar puts a
lot more tire patch on the pavement than a sportbike or racebike.
Anyone who has raced both knows that, in general, cars go around
corners much faster than bikes. Fast sport cars go around most
racetracks faster than most fast sportbikes. Fast racecars go around
most tracks much faster than fast racebikes. And GP cars go around
racetracks much faster than GP bikes.
A track can be designed such that a bike usually beats a car - the 1/4
mile dragstrip is one such example. A track that rewards extreme power
to weight ratios and doesn't reward top speed is another such track.
> > How hard sport cars can corner depends on how fast they're going,
> > since the faster they go, the more downforce they can generate
> > (assuming they have the requisite wings and air dams). I'm not sure
> > how they measure maximum cornering Gs for cars, so I don't know if
> > the numbers quoted in car mags are with or without the benefit of
> > downforce. IIRC, F1 racers corner at somewhere around 4G through the
> > fast turns.
>
> Interesting stuff. I guess the comparison should be chalked up to a
> TeeVee show with an agenda.
It might be. However, the general premise is true. Except in rare
instances, cars hold road course style racetrack records, not bikes.
Hank
> Get an Impreza in a field full of snow and then you will
> know what a gateway drug really is.
Hell, I had a blast just plowing snow and doing four
wheel power drifts with my Ford Ranger this morning.
Hank
> On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 18:26:26 -0500, Hank <"impeach"@bu$h.gov> wrote:
>>I did notice that he got it started in the grass...
> I noticed you got started in the grass too. Maybe it's
> time for rehab? It's a gateway drug you know...
You mean smoking pot could cause someone to use
a harder, more dangerous and addictive drug like
nicotine? Damn, that =is= scary!
-
Here's what happens to steel framed buildings exposed
to raging infernos for hours on end.
http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr69c.html
On 9-11-01, WTC7, a 47 story steel framed building, which
had only small, random fires, dropped in perfect symmetry
at near free fall speed as in a perfectly executed controlled
demolition.
http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/videos.html
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
http://wtc7.net/articles/FEMA/WTC_ch5.htm
Ever wonder who benefits from the 150 MILLION
U.S. taxpayer dollars spent each DAY in Iraq?
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0223-08.htm
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=21
"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.
Albert Nurick
> Albert Nurick wrote:
> > Makes me wonder how the Porsche could get around the track faster
> > if an R1 can pull over 1.0Gs.
>
> Because a racecar pulls a lot more than 1.0Gs in the corners.
The Porsche in the show wasn't a race car, it was a Carerra 4,
presumably on street tires.
Greek Shipping Magnets
wrote:
>The Porsche in the show wasn't a race car, it was a Carerra 4,
>presumably on street tires.
Oh malarkey. With the smack the host was talking they prolly put the
911 on the finest shaved piste meats they could get their hands on.
And the R1 was running bias ply cruiser tires. 120 rear!
Gary R.
Bald, and inflated to 60 psi. That's the only way some dumb car could
ever beat a neato motorcycle on a racetrack. Anyone with a half a
brain knows that.
Vito
And watch the front end plow out .....