Fancy sidecar
Dean Hoffman
Ten years in the making.
The Older Gentleman
> http://tinyurl.com/yjrvtbk
>
> Ten years in the making.
Shame he used a shonky old Laverda engine ;-)
--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F Triumph Street Triple
Suzuki TS250ER GN250 Damn, back to six bikes!
Try Googling before asking a damn silly question.
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
S'mee
> http://tinyurl.com/yjrvtbk
>
> Ten years in the making.
Oh FFS not that piece of SHITE again it's shite art and that's without
a doubt the grossest example of Laverda/motorcycle abuse I've seen.
The Older Gentleman
J. Clarke
> S'mee <steven...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Dec 30, 8:42 pm, Dean Hoffman <dean.hoff...@ymail.com> wrote:
>>> http://tinyurl.com/yjrvtbk
>>>
>>> Ten years in the making.
>>
>> Oh FFS not that piece of SHITE again it's shite art and that's
>> without a doubt the grossest example of Laverda/motorcycle abuse
>> I've seen.
>
> Don't hold back, mate: tell him what you really feel :-))
It gives me a weird idea--an asymmetric three wheeler with the operator (I
don't want go get into the semantics of rider vs driver) on the side
opposite the one front wheel. I wonder to what extent that might address
the stability issues inherent in three-wheelers.
The Older Gentleman
<Boggle>
Ever ridden a sidecar outfit? Strange, but huge, huge fun. Until you
crash. And everyone does.
J. Clarke
> J. Clarke <jclarke...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> The Older Gentleman wrote:
>>> S'mee <steven...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Dec 30, 8:42 pm, Dean Hoffman <dean.hoff...@ymail.com> wrote:
>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/yjrvtbk
>>>>>
>>>>> Ten years in the making.
>>>>
>>>> Oh FFS not that piece of SHITE again it's shite art and that's
>>>> without a doubt the grossest example of Laverda/motorcycle abuse
>>>> I've seen.
>>>
>>> Don't hold back, mate: tell him what you really feel :-))
>>
>> It gives me a weird idea--an asymmetric three wheeler with the
>> operator (I don't want go get into the semantics of rider vs driver)
>> on the side opposite the one front wheel. I wonder to what extent
>> that might address the stability issues inherent in three-wheelers.
>
> <Boggle>
>
> Ever ridden a sidecar outfit? Strange, but huge, huge fun. Until you
> crash. And everyone does.
Can't say I have. I wasn't thinking so much in terms of motorcycles though
as in a variation on something like a Bond 875.
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> Ever ridden a sidecar outfit? Strange, but huge, huge fun. Until you
> crash. And everyone does.
Not everyone. [1] :-)
And since I sold the last one a couple years ago, I guess my, um, record
will remain intact. <beams>
But yes, huge fun is absolutely true. If my wife hadn't lost interest in
the open road (not the sidecar), and we hadn't moved to a house with a
much smaller garage, I'd still have it.
1. I will freely admit there were a few close calls.
--
-bts
-Four wheels carry the body; two wheels move the soul
Sean_Q_
> Ever ridden a sidecar outfit? Strange, but huge, huge fun. Until you
> crash. And everyone does.
Now waita bloomin' minute there, TOGster, don't just drop
a conversational bomb like that and then casually stroll on your
merry way out the door without another word... I wanna hear more
about how I'm likely to crash and what can I do to avoid it.
SQ
'06 Zuk S40 / '85 Dnepr MT-11 / various faded glories
Dean Hoffman
I'll probably stumble across it again sometime and repost it.
You don't happen to know where I left my computer?
S'mee
Gentleman) wrote:
> S'mee <stevenkei...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Dec 30, 8:42 pm, Dean Hoffman <dean.hoff...@ymail.com> wrote:
> > >http://tinyurl.com/yjrvtbk
>
> > > Ten years in the making.
>
> > Oh FFS not that piece of SHITE again it's shite art and that's without
> > a doubt the grossest example of Laverda/motorcycle abuse I've seen.
>
> Don't hold back, mate: tell him what you really feel :-))
I DID! Some agency that doesn't exist with employees that don't exist
that watches all the net traffic edited it...
S'mee
What's a computer? I post using rotary phone and decode messages by
listening to the audio output of the message on the wire.
The Older Gentleman
> The Older Gentleman wrote:
>
> > Ever ridden a sidecar outfit? Strange, but huge, huge fun. Until you
> > crash. And everyone does.
>
> Now waita bloomin' minute there,
<Raps on monitor>
Dick Van Dyke Is that you?
>TOGster, don't just drop
> a conversational bomb like that and then casually stroll on your
> merry way out the door without another word... I wanna hear more
> about how I'm likely to crash and what can I do to avoid it.
>
The danger comes when you attempt a fast left-hander - well,
right-hander for you lot, as your chairs are fixed to the right-hand
side of the bike.
And you start to panic, and the siscar wheel lifts and the bars snap
straight and... well, then everything depends on road furniture and
run-off space.
When I bought my outfit there was a flywheel from (I was told) an old
Sunbeam car as ballast in the chair. I threw it out, and then discovered
why it was there.
sleazy
Gentleman) said:
> Sean_Q_ <no....@no.spam> wrote:
>
>> The Older Gentleman wrote:
>>
>>> Ever ridden a sidecar outfit? Strange, but huge, huge fun. Until you
>>> crash. And everyone does.
>>
>> Now waita bloomin' minute there,
>
> <Raps on monitor>
>
> Dick Van Dyke Is that you?
>
>> TOGster, don't just drop
>> a conversational bomb like that and then casually stroll on your
>> merry way out the door without another word... I wanna hear more
>> about how I'm likely to crash and what can I do to avoid it.
>>
>
> The danger comes when you attempt a fast left-hander - well,
> right-hander for you lot, as your chairs are fixed to the right-hand
> side of the bike.
>
> And you start to panic, and the siscar wheel lifts and the bars snap
> straight and... well, then everything depends on road furniture and
> run-off space.
Ooooh, entertainment factor high, especially with a monkey in the box.
>
> When I bought my outfit there was a flywheel from (I was told) an old
> Sunbeam car as ballast in the chair. I threw it out, and then discovered
> why it was there.
I ran an 80 pound sand bag in mine. Thought about tossing a second in
for the really twisty stuff.
My one year experiment in hacking -
http://sleazyrider.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/1984-GL1200-Hack-Rig/dscf0001/417679830_BvxEP-M.jpg
I put 5500 miles on it, mostly commuting, but it did make a trip to
upstate NY and the Adirondack Mountains. That was fun.
--
sleazy
2001 BMW R1150GS
1988 Honda XR600R
1996 Triumph Daytona 1200
The Older Gentleman
> My one year experiment in hacking -
>
http://sleazyrider.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/1984-GL1200-Hack-Rig/dscf0001
/417679830_BvxEP-M.jpg
You call that a hack rig?
It's brilliant. You're too modest.
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> Sean_Q_ <no....@no.spam> wrote:
>> The Older Gentleman wrote:
>>> Ever ridden a sidecar outfit? Strange, but huge, huge fun. Until you
>>> crash. And everyone does.
>>
>> Now waita bloomin' minute there,
>
>> TOGster, don't just drop a conversational bomb like that and then
>> casually stroll on your merry way out the door without another
>> word... I wanna hear more about how I'm likely to crash and what can
>> I do to avoid it.
>
> The danger comes when you attempt a fast left-hander - well,
> right-hander for you lot, as your chairs are fixed to the right-hand
> side of the bike.
>
> And you start to panic, and the siscar wheel lifts and the bars snap
> straight and... well, then everything depends on road furniture and
> run-off space.
There are two ways to get the sidecar back onto the ground when you find
yourself going too fast into a [left][right](toward sidecar) turn. The
chair will lift off the ground, right?
1. Turn bars and go straight, directly into oncoming traffic.
2. Grab throttle, and *increase* greatly, and quickly.
Number 2 is the correct answer of course, though most beginners will
never do it... hence, they crash. :-)
> When I bought my outfit there was a flywheel from (I was told) an old
> Sunbeam car as ballast in the chair. I threw it out, and then
> discovered why it was there.
I had two ~50 pound bags of gravel... for when the missus wasn't along.
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> My one year experiment in hacking -
> http://sleazyrider.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/1984-GL1200-Hack-Rig/dscf0001/417679830_BvxEP-M.jpg
> I put 5500 miles on it, mostly commuting, but it did make a trip to
> upstate NY and the Adirondack Mountains. That was fun.
A California Friendship II. 'Zactly what I had (my last one).
The Older Gentleman
> There are two ways to get the sidecar back onto the ground when you find
> yourself going too fast into a [left][right](toward sidecar) turn. The
> chair will lift off the ground, right?
>
> 1. Turn bars and go straight, directly into oncoming traffic.
> 2. Grab throttle, and *increase* greatly, and quickly.
>
> Number 2 is the correct answer of course, though most beginners will
> never do it... hence, they crash. :-)
Give the man a coconut.
It takes amazing willpower to get on the power when every nerve ending
is shrieking: "BRAKE! BRAKE NOW OR YOU'RE GOING TO DIE!"
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> Beauregard T. Shagnasty <a.non...@example.invalid> wrote:
>> There are two ways to get the sidecar back onto the ground when you
>> find yourself going too fast into a [left][right](toward sidecar)
>> turn. The chair will lift off the ground, right?
>>
>> 1. Turn bars and go straight, directly into oncoming traffic.
>> 2. Grab throttle, and *increase* greatly, and quickly.
>>
>> Number 2 is the correct answer of course, though most beginners will
>> never do it... hence, they crash. :-)
>
> Give the man a coconut.
>
> It takes amazing willpower to get on the power when every nerve
> ending is shrieking: "BRAKE! BRAKE NOW OR YOU'RE GOING TO DIE!"
Ah yes. Maybe that occurs because there is no real training offered - at
least on this side of the pond.
One of those close calls I alluded to, was exactly this "BRAKE!"
reaction. 'Twas during the first week with the first chair, and
fortunately no oncoming traffic. Never did *that* again...
sleazy
Older Gentleman) wrote:
>sleazy <no...@nil.net> wrote:
>
>> My one year experiment in hacking -
>>
>http://sleazyrider.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/1984-GL1200-Hack-Rig/dscf0001
>/417679830_BvxEP-M.jpg
>
>You call that a hack rig?
>
>It's brilliant. You're too modest.
Well, I didn't build it, but it sure was fun in the mountains. :p I
tried to lean into turns on the rig for a couple months, then overcame
the tendency. It sucked jumping between two and three wheels however.
The Older Gentleman
> > It takes amazing willpower to get on the power when every nerve
> > ending is shrieking: "BRAKE! BRAKE NOW OR YOU'RE GOING TO DIE!"
>
> Ah yes. Maybe that occurs because there is no real training offered - at
> least on this side of the pond.
There isn't here, either. At least, not for outfits. You're on your own,
and the learning curve is steep :-)
And I think there are very few experienced outfit pilots who'd want to
go in the chair and talk the newbie through the Black Art. I wouldn't,
anyway.
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> Beauregard T. Shagnasty <a.non...@example.invalid> wrote:
>> [TOG wrote:]
>>> It takes amazing willpower to get on the power when every nerve
>>> ending is shrieking: "BRAKE! BRAKE NOW OR YOU'RE GOING TO DIE!"
>>
>> Ah yes. Maybe that occurs because there is no real training offered
>> - at least on this side of the pond.
>
> There isn't here, either. At least, not for outfits. You're on your
> own, and the learning curve is steep :-)
My mentor had a test for anyone interested in outfits. He had a 300 foot
driveway, slightly uphill, and would let his buddies attempt riding his
Guzzi with chair from house to street. Everyone went into the weeds,
except me after paying very close attention to what the rest were doing.
They all - as soon as it started to drag to the side - started
counter-steering. Weeds it was.
> And I think there are very few experienced outfit pilots who'd want
> to go in the chair and talk the newbie through the Black Art. I
> wouldn't, anyway.
Me neither. I did try to teach my wife (licensed, R65 rider) many years
ago .. big empty parking lot .. she almost ran me and the hack into a
light pole at the end of the lot!
Robert Bolton
<a.non...@example.invalid> wrote:
Man, I had no idea. The wife's been talking about sidecars for a
couple years now. When the time comes that she's too old to hang on
back there I'll be sure to get some lessons before I get one of those
and kill us both.
Robert
The Older Gentleman
> Man, I had no idea. The wife's been talking about sidecars for a
> couple years now.
<Rubs hands in anticipation>
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> Man, I had no idea. The wife's been talking about sidecars for a
> couple years now. When the time comes that she's too old to hang on
> back there I'll be sure to get some lessons before I get one of those
> and kill us both.
It would be a good idea to find someone with a sidecar rig and beg a
test-drive before you decide to buy. Test in a large empty parking lot.
Driving a rig efficiently boils down to one thing. You have to mentally
adapt to *steer* and not *counter-steer.*
don (Calgary)
Hey, you could practice with one of these:
http://www.impaktbicycles.com/
I suppose there will come a day when I will not be able to hold the
bike up without the assistance of a third wheel, either a trike or a
side hack. If or when that day comes I would be inclined to go for one
of these (Can-Am Spyder):
http://spyder.brp.com/en-CA/See/Can-Am/Showroom/Showroom-RT.htm
Last month one of our local dealers held a customer appreciation
night. I went for the food and the beer, but one of these rigs caught
my eye. I got to chatting with a guy who owned the smaller version.
While it still does not handle like a two wheeler, he spoke positively
about it being a fun and responsive machine.
Not that your wife would feel any more secure on that than your
Harley, but if I ever need the third wheel I would consider a Spyder..
The Older Gentleman
> It would be a good idea to find someone with a sidecar rig and beg a
> test-drive before you decide to buy. Test in a large empty parking lot.
This is good advice.
My wife tried to master my combo in a large empty car park, and gavce up
in the end, saying it was horrible. Oh well.
Robert Bolton
wrote:
Hey, that would be pretty good for groceries. While most winter
bicyclists around here just use studded tires, I've noticed a few this
winter using what appears to be a bolt-on third wheel outrigger, but
it didn't appear to have a platform.
Take a look at this. I think it's a Cushman scooter with a cargo rig.
http://cruiseblue.com/toybox/oldphotos/index_Page326.htm
>I suppose there will come a day when I will not be able to hold the
>bike up without the assistance of a third wheel, either a trike or a
>side hack. If or when that day comes I would be inclined to go for one
>of these (Can-Am Spyder):
>http://spyder.brp.com/en-CA/See/Can-Am/Showroom/Showroom-RT.htm
>
>Last month one of our local dealers held a customer appreciation
>night. I went for the food and the beer, but one of these rigs caught
>my eye. I got to chatting with a guy who owned the smaller version.
>While it still does not handle like a two wheeler, he spoke positively
>about it being a fun and responsive machine.
>
>Not that your wife would feel any more secure on that than your
>Harley, but if I ever need the third wheel I would consider a Spyder..
I've thought about those too. A sidecar has a retro look that appeals
to me, but it sounds like an elderly rider with diminished faculties
might have to (or at least should) ride much more conservatively with
a sidecar than on a Spyder. I wonder too though about just how
comfortable a sidecar is on rough pavement. You might need one with
Caddy suspension to keep from rattling the passenger to pieces.
The wife's problems are two fold. One is climbing on (short legs),
with number two being she falls asleep often. The sleeping part is
the main reason I switched from Concours to Electra Glide and got an
intercom. I make small talk with her, and have pulled over for a
break once or twice when she needed too much prodding to talk back.
I'm going to have to make a serious decision about this in a few more
years as she's starting to show her age. She's always been more
energetic than the average person, but she's been slowing down the
last couple of years. If she's going to ride with me 5 years from
now, I'll probably need to have two bikes, one a two wheeler for me
and one fitted with a sidecar where she'll have maximum security. My
old 1340 would struggle with a sidecar.
In the interest of Fancy Sidecars, here are a few -
http://www.pashnit.com/bikes/sidecar.htm
I'm still attracted to the Ural's style, with the spoked spare tire
sitting on the back.
Robert
Robert Bolton
<a.non...@example.invalid> wrote:
>Robert Bolton wrote:
>
>> Man, I had no idea. The wife's been talking about sidecars for a
>> couple years now. When the time comes that she's too old to hang on
>> back there I'll be sure to get some lessons before I get one of those
>> and kill us both.
>
>It would be a good idea to find someone with a sidecar rig and beg a
>test-drive before you decide to buy. Test in a large empty parking lot.
>
Several years ago now, The Ural rep attending our annual bike show
invited me to test ride one of the Ural setups. I didn't bother to
take him up on it as I wasn't seriously considering one (max speed 60
mph)
>Driving a rig efficiently boils down to one thing. You have to mentally
>adapt to *steer* and not *counter-steer.*
Steering under normal conditions seems simple enough simple. It's
when the rig leaves the ground I'd worry about self destructing.
A lot of people hurt themselves over the smallest detail. The news
recently aired an audio of a poor fellow calling 911 to report his
throttle being stuck to the floor of his cage. He'd burned up the
brakes trying to stop, and was at the time headed for an intersection.
You'd think all he needed to do upon finding the throttle stuck would
be to slip the tranny into neutral, but I guess he hadn't though of
that.
Robert
Robert Bolton
Older Gentleman) wrote:
>Beauregard T. Shagnasty <a.non...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>> It would be a good idea to find someone with a sidecar rig and beg a
>> test-drive before you decide to buy. Test in a large empty parking lot.
>
>This is good advice.
>
I agree.
>My wife tried to master my combo in a large empty car park, and gavce up
>in the end, saying it was horrible. Oh well.
My wife tells me she could handle riding a sidecar rig, a trike, and
even the Spyder types whenever she sees them on the road. Her balance
isn't good enough for two wheels (it's hardly good enough for her to
stand still). No way will I ever allow her to try it even in a
parking lot. She's too brain damaged from being hit by a cage to risk
such a thing. She drives her auto competently, owns the safest one
available (good size, ABS, air bags all around), and her meds keep her
epilepsy at bay. That's it for her.
Not to mention my life span would be shortened from worry.
No, no, no
Robert
don (Calgary)
<robertbo...@gci.net> wrote:
I can ride my bicycle through our snow and ice, but it is a struggle.
Too much of a struggle to bother with.
>
>Take a look at this. I think it's a Cushman scooter with a cargo rig.
>http://cruiseblue.com/toybox/oldphotos/index_Page326.htm
I almost missed the scooter. But was that rider wearing a helmet? ;-)
>
>>I suppose there will come a day when I will not be able to hold the
>>bike up without the assistance of a third wheel, either a trike or a
>>side hack. If or when that day comes I would be inclined to go for one
>>of these (Can-Am Spyder):
>>http://spyder.brp.com/en-CA/See/Can-Am/Showroom/Showroom-RT.htm
>>
>>Last month one of our local dealers held a customer appreciation
>>night. I went for the food and the beer, but one of these rigs caught
>>my eye. I got to chatting with a guy who owned the smaller version.
>>While it still does not handle like a two wheeler, he spoke positively
>>about it being a fun and responsive machine.
>>
>>Not that your wife would feel any more secure on that than your
>>Harley, but if I ever need the third wheel I would consider a Spyder..
>
>I've thought about those too. A sidecar has a retro look that appeals
>to me, but it sounds like an elderly rider with diminished faculties
>might have to (or at least should) ride much more conservatively with
>a sidecar than on a Spyder. I wonder too though about just how
>comfortable a sidecar is on rough pavement. You might need one with
>Caddy suspension to keep from rattling the passenger to pieces.
Here is one man's solution to being able to ride even with his
handicap.
http://www.actualriders.ca/jack.htm
This, being a custom rig, it was kept off the road for almost a year
before it would pass the required inspections.
The owner's name is Jack and he did all of the work in his own shop.
It ain't pretty but he is riding. I admire his perseverance.
>The wife's problems are two fold. One is climbing on (short legs),
>with number two being she falls asleep often. The sleeping part is
>the main reason I switched from Concours to Electra Glide and got an
>intercom. I make small talk with her, and have pulled over for a
>break once or twice when she needed too much prodding to talk back.
>I'm going to have to make a serious decision about this in a few more
>years as she's starting to show her age. She's always been more
>energetic than the average person, but she's been slowing down the
>last couple of years. If she's going to ride with me 5 years from
>now, I'll probably need to have two bikes, one a two wheeler for me
>and one fitted with a sidecar where she'll have maximum security. My
>old 1340 would struggle with a sidecar.
>
>In the interest of Fancy Sidecars, here are a few -
>
>http://www.pashnit.com/bikes/sidecar.htm
They look pretty cool.
>
>I'm still attracted to the Ural's style, with the spoked spare tire
>sitting on the back.
We have a Ural dealer in Airdrie, just north of Calgary. They brought
one of their Ural rigs to one of our local bike nights. I took it for
a spin around the parking lot. While it was a very different ride than
a motorcycle, I didn't find it scary to drive. I didn't try to counter
steer it, wheely it or fly the hack, but as with a two wheel bike,
looking where you want to go, seemed to work for me. I don't think it
would take long to learn how to ride one.
http://www.destinationcycles.com/Ural-bikes-for-sale-sidecar.htm
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" wrote:
>> Driving a rig efficiently boils down to one thing. You have to
>> mentally adapt to *steer* and not *counter-steer.*
>
> Steering under normal conditions seems simple enough simple. It's
> when the rig leaves the ground I'd worry about self destructing.
Do you mean the chair coming up in an inside turn? Naturally, you want
to pay attention to the road, and slow down before sharp turns. <g>
> A lot of people hurt themselves over the smallest detail. The news
> recently aired an audio of a poor fellow calling 911 to report his
> throttle being stuck to the floor of his cage. He'd burned up the
> brakes trying to stop, and was at the time headed for an
> intersection. You'd think all he needed to do upon finding the
> throttle stuck would be to slip the tranny into neutral, but I guess
> he hadn't though of that.
I saw that video. Sheesh, the guy had a good half-minute to shift into
neutral and turn off the KEY! The video cut off as he entered an
intersection. I sure hope his stupidity didn't kill any innocents.
If my throttle was stuck WFO, the last thing I'd be doing is reaching
for a cell phone.
The Older Gentleman
In the UK , epilepsy = no licence. At all.
>
> Not to mention my life span would be shortened from worry.
>
Understandable.
S'mee
<a.nony.m...@example.invalid> wrote:
> Robert Bolton wrote:
> > "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" wrote:
> >> Driving a rig efficiently boils down to one thing. You have to
> >> mentally adapt to *steer* and not *counter-steer.*
>
> > Steering under normal conditions seems simple enough simple. It's
> > when the rig leaves the ground I'd worry about self destructing.
>
> Do you mean the chair coming up in an inside turn? Naturally, you want
> to pay attention to the road, and slow down before sharp turns. <g>
>
Unless your idea of a sharp turn isn't a hairpin turn. Hairpins ARE
sharp turns...the rest are just variations of moderate or gentle. ;^)
S'mee
<a.nony.m...@example.invalid> wrote:
> I saw that video. Sheesh, the guy had a good half-minute to shift into
> neutral and turn off the KEY! The video cut off as he entered an
> intersection. I sure hope his stupidity didn't kill any innocents.
You have that backwards...motor off then neutral and yes virginia you
can turn off a cage without locking the steering wheel.
> If my throttle was stuck WFO, the last thing I'd be doing is reaching
> for a cell phone.
Why? Just reach in the window of a cage as you pass it...the hard part
would be dialing whilst keeping the motorcycle on the road and THEN
trying to talk on the phone with your helmet on.
Robert Bolton
Older Gentleman) wrote:
>Robert Bolton <robertbo...@gci.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 17:06:08 +0000, totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk (The
>> Older Gentleman) wrote:
>>
>> >Beauregard T. Shagnasty <a.non...@example.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> >> It would be a good idea to find someone with a sidecar rig and beg a
>> >> test-drive before you decide to buy. Test in a large empty parking lot.
>> >
>> >This is good advice.
>> >
>> I agree.
>>
>> >My wife tried to master my combo in a large empty car park, and gavce up
>> >in the end, saying it was horrible. Oh well.
>>
>> My wife tells me she could handle riding a sidecar rig, a trike, and
>> even the Spyder types whenever she sees them on the road. Her balance
>> isn't good enough for two wheels (it's hardly good enough for her to
>> stand still). No way will I ever allow her to try it even in a
>> parking lot. She's too brain damaged from being hit by a cage to risk
>> such a thing. She drives her auto competently, owns the safest one
>> available (good size, ABS, air bags all around), and her meds keep her
>> epilepsy at bay. That's it for her.
>
>In the UK , epilepsy = no licence. At all.
Interesting. In Alaska you must be episode free for 12 months. I
don't know how successful meds are on average, but my wife is episode
free with hers.
Robert
Robert Bolton
<steven...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Jan 2, 3:17�pm, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
><a.nony.m...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I saw that video. Sheesh, the guy had a good half-minute to shift into
>> neutral and turn off the KEY! �The video cut off as he entered an
>> intersection. I sure hope his stupidity didn't kill any innocents.
>
>You have that backwards...motor off then neutral and yes virginia you
>can turn off a cage without locking the steering wheel.
>
I don't know about modern cars, but shutting the engine down on old
cars meant losing the vacuum assist on power brakes. You could still
stop but you had to press a lot harder on the brakes. Either way
would have worked.
It may be the guy had never played around with the transmission and
just didn't know neutral was the place to be.
Robert
Robert Bolton
wrote:
>On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:54:40 -0900, Robert Bolton
><robertbo...@gci.net> wrote:
>
....
>>Hey, that would be pretty good for groceries. While most winter
>>bicyclists around here just use studded tires, I've noticed a few this
>>winter using what appears to be a bolt-on third wheel outrigger, but
>>it didn't appear to have a platform.
>
>I can ride my bicycle through our snow and ice, but it is a struggle.
>Too much of a struggle to bother with.
I'm guessing it's the youngsters who do that stuff.
>>
>>Take a look at this. I think it's a Cushman scooter with a cargo rig.
>>http://cruiseblue.com/toybox/oldphotos/index_Page326.htm
>
>I almost missed the scooter. But was that rider wearing a helmet? ;-)
Page 327 has a blurry close up. It looks like a dark hat with a short
brim.
.....
>
>Here is one man's solution to being able to ride even with his
>handicap.
>http://www.actualriders.ca/jack.htm
>
>This, being a custom rig, it was kept off the road for almost a year
>before it would pass the required inspections.
>
>The owner's name is Jack and he did all of the work in his own shop.
>It ain't pretty but he is riding. I admire his perseverance.
>
Me too. It's good to see he's not sitting at home disintegrating.
....
>
>We have a Ural dealer in Airdrie, just north of Calgary. They brought
>one of their Ural rigs to one of our local bike nights. I took it for
>a spin around the parking lot. While it was a very different ride than
>a motorcycle, I didn't find it scary to drive. I didn't try to counter
>steer it, wheely it or fly the hack, but as with a two wheel bike,
>looking where you want to go, seemed to work for me. I don't think it
>would take long to learn how to ride one.
>http://www.destinationcycles.com/Ural-bikes-for-sale-sidecar.htm
I'd seriously consider one if they could get it to run steady (meaning
long term without affecting engine life) at 70 mph/140 kph.
Robert
S'mee
> On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 16:10:31 -0800 (PST), "S'mee"
>
Such an optomist...occam's razor says he paniced and never even
thought of putting it in neutral or turning off the key.
S'mee
Gentleman) wrote:
> Robert Bolton <robertboltond...@gci.net> wrote:
> > On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 17:06:08 +0000, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The
> > Older Gentleman) wrote:
>
> > >Beauregard T. Shagnasty <a.nony.m...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
> > >> It would be a good idea to find someone with a sidecar rig and beg a
> > >> test-drive before you decide to buy. Test in a large empty parking lot.
>
> > >This is good advice.
>
> > I agree.
>
> > >My wife tried to master my combo in a large empty car park, and gavce up
> > >in the end, saying it was horrible. Oh well.
>
> > My wife tells me she could handle riding a sidecar rig, a trike, and
> > even the Spyder types whenever she sees them on the road. Her balance
> > isn't good enough for two wheels (it's hardly good enough for her to
> > stand still). No way will I ever allow her to try it even in a
> > parking lot. She's too brain damaged from being hit by a cage to risk
> > such a thing. She drives her auto competently, owns the safest one
> > available (good size, ABS, air bags all around), and her meds keep her
> > epilepsy at bay. That's it for her.
>
> In the UK , epilepsy = no licence. At all.
damn what a nany state you live in...what good is life without the
risk of losing it suddenly?
Robert Bolton
<a.non...@example.invalid> wrote:
>Robert Bolton wrote:
>
>> "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" wrote:
>>> Driving a rig efficiently boils down to one thing. You have to
>>> mentally adapt to *steer* and not *counter-steer.*
>>
>> Steering under normal conditions seems simple enough simple. It's
>> when the rig leaves the ground I'd worry about self destructing.
>
>Do you mean the chair coming up in an inside turn? Naturally, you want
>to pay attention to the road, and slow down before sharp turns. <g>
>
I can imagine intentionally being on the edge of airborne, but yes I'd
hate to find I've got lift off because I entered a corner way too hot.
Here are a few questions for you. A) Is it possible for the bike to
fall forward (bikes rear wheel lifts) toward the front of the chair,
either by braking hard or taking a hard corner on an outside turn? B)
How nasty might it be if the outboard wheel catches a good sized
pothole? Id like to think I could miss them under normal
circumstances, but I imagine there could be times when just there's no
avoiding it.
>> A lot of people hurt themselves over the smallest detail. The news
>> recently aired an audio of a poor fellow calling 911 to report his
>> throttle being stuck to the floor of his cage. He'd burned up the
>> brakes trying to stop, and was at the time headed for an
>> intersection. You'd think all he needed to do upon finding the
>> throttle stuck would be to slip the tranny into neutral, but I guess
>> he hadn't though of that.
>
>I saw that video. Sheesh, the guy had a good half-minute to shift into
>neutral and turn off the KEY! The video cut off as he entered an
>intersection. I sure hope his stupidity didn't kill any innocents.
>
He had passengers as I recall, with no survivors.
>If my throttle was stuck WFO, the last thing I'd be doing is reaching
>for a cell phone.
You'd think that being a guy he would have enough life experience to
know what to do. You step on the gas, you let up and find it's still
accelerating, you say, "What the hell?" and, hit the brakes, hit
neutral when you find braking isn't enough, and think of the key as
you're reaching for neutral. Alternatively, the engine reminds you to
use the key immediately after you find neutral.
The thing about the key though is you lose both power steering and
power brakes. Most people can get buy without them, but weaker people
might have trouble with that.
Robert
don (Calgary)
<robertbo...@gci.net> wrote:
>
>The thing about the key though is you lose both power steering and
>power brakes. Most people can get buy without them, but weaker people
>might have trouble with that.
I am not sure about power steering but I am pretty sure you get a pump
or two out of the brakes before the power goes away. Once you shut the
motor down, hit the brakes and stay on them until you stop.
The Older Gentleman
> Such an optomist...occam's razor says he paniced and never even
> thought of putting it in neutral or turning off the key.
Or he just wanted to be on the TV news.
The Older Gentleman
> I am not sure about power steering but I am pretty sure you get a pump
> or two out of the brakes before the power goes away.
You do on any car I've driven. Plus a short amount of steering
assistance.
The Older Gentleman
Ah, I may be wrong, actually. I was thinking truck licence, which I've
got.
Let's check for car licences.
<fx: Googles>
You can have a licence if you have been free from seizures completely
for one year, or you have experienced sleep seizures only, for a period
of at least three years; and (this is the kicker) the driving agency is
satisfied that as a driver you are not likely to be a source of danger
to the public.
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" wrote:
>>Robert Bolton wrote:
>>> "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" wrote:
>>>> Driving a rig efficiently boils down to one thing. You have to
>>>> mentally adapt to *steer* and not *counter-steer.*
>>>
>>> Steering under normal conditions seems simple enough simple. It's
>>> when the rig leaves the ground I'd worry about self destructing.
>>
>> Do you mean the chair coming up in an inside turn? Naturally, you
>> want to pay attention to the road, and slow down before sharp turns.
>> <g>
>>
> I can imagine intentionally being on the edge of airborne, but yes I'd
> hate to find I've got lift off because I entered a corner way too
> hot.
Define "way too hot." <g> There are limits to everything, same as a
solo motorcycle for example. I have witnessed two-wheeled riders "going
straight" when the riders found themselves too fast for their own skills
in a tight curve. It's .. well .. it's a crapshoot!
> Here are a few questions for you. A) Is it possible for the bike to
> fall forward (bikes rear wheel lifts) toward the front of the chair,
> either by braking hard or taking a hard corner on an outside turn? B)
> How nasty might it be if the outboard wheel catches a good sized
> pothole? Id like to think I could miss them under normal
> circumstances, but I imagine there could be times when just there's
> no avoiding it.
A) Yes, it is possible, but highly unlikely. In fact, it can be fun to
take 90� left-hand turns by using only the bike's front brake and
sliding the rig around the turn. As your skills improve... (Assumes U.S.
mounting of chair on right.)
B) I've hit my share of potholes over the years and never experienced
any loss of control because of it. I did once pop about ten spokes on
the rear wheel of the old R90/6 when I ran into a rather large one. And
no unusual problems if the sidecar wheel hits one, either.
>>> ..poor fellow calling 911 to report his throttle being stuck
>>
>> I saw that video. Sheesh, the guy had a good half-minute to shift
>> into neutral and turn off the KEY! The video cut off as he entered
>> an intersection. I sure hope his stupidity didn't kill any
>> innocents.
>
> He had passengers as I recall, with no survivors.
Oh, that's a shame. That said, he should win a Darwin award.
>> If my throttle was stuck WFO, the last thing I'd be doing is reaching
>> for a cell phone.
>
> You'd think that being a guy he would have enough life experience to
> know what to do. You step on the gas, you let up and find it's still
> accelerating, you say, "What the hell?" and, hit the brakes, hit
> neutral when you find braking isn't enough, and think of the key as
> you're reaching for neutral. Alternatively, the engine reminds you
> to use the key immediately after you find neutral.
Exactly so.
Drifting a bit further off-topic, it reminds me of the stories about the
Audis with "all of a sudden my car lept across the street. I couldn't
stop it!" Remember, Road&Track magazine did tests, and found that
nearly everyone panicked and mashed further on the gas pedal.
> The thing about the key though is you lose both power steering and
> power brakes. Most people can get buy without them, but weaker
> people might have trouble with that.
In the case of the video 9-1-1 guy, losing power steering would have
been the least of his worries. He should have stopped a quarter-mile
from the intersection. Then called a tow service.
S'mee
Gentleman) wrote:
> S'mee <stevenkei...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Such an optomist...occam's razor says he paniced and never even
> > thought of putting it in neutral or turning off the key.
>
> Or he just wanted to be on the TV news.
too complicated...thus a fail.
The Older Gentleman
Beav
"The Older Gentleman" <totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1jblqie.wuaqh3cp5eumN%totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk...>> > S'mee <steven...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Dec 30, 8:42 pm, Dean Hoffman <dean.hoff...@ymail.com> wrote:
>> >>> http://tinyurl.com/yjrvtbk
>> >>>
>> >>> Ten years in the making.
>> >>
>> >> Oh FFS not that piece of SHITE again it's shite art and that's
>> >> without a doubt the grossest example of Laverda/motorcycle abuse
>> >> I've seen.
>> >
>> > Don't hold back, mate: tell him what you really feel :-))
>>
>> It gives me a weird idea--an asymmetric three wheeler with the operator
>> (I
>> don't want go get into the semantics of rider vs driver) on the side
>> opposite the one front wheel. I wonder to what extent that might address
>> the stability issues inherent in three-wheelers.
>
> <Boggle>
>
> Ever ridden a sidecar outfit? Strange, but huge, huge fun. Until you
> crash. And everyone does.
The first time I rode an outfit (Sunbeam 500 S7) I got it on its side with
the "chair" pointing skywards. Ripped off the brake lever, fucked up the
throtle tube and took both pegs off on one side. Oh, and bent the handlebars
too.
Fucking glad it wasn't mine.
--
Beav
VN 750
Zed 1000
OMF# 19
Beav
"J. Clarke" <jclarke...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:hhj2n...@news6.newsguy.com...
> The Older Gentleman wrote:
>> J. Clarke <jclarke...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> The Older Gentleman wrote:
>>>> S'mee <steven...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 30, 8:42 pm, Dean Hoffman <dean.hoff...@ymail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/yjrvtbk
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ten years in the making.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh FFS not that piece of SHITE again it's shite art and that's
>>>>> without a doubt the grossest example of Laverda/motorcycle abuse
>>>>> I've seen.
>>>>
>>>> Don't hold back, mate: tell him what you really feel :-))
>>>
>>> It gives me a weird idea--an asymmetric three wheeler with the
>>> operator (I don't want go get into the semantics of rider vs driver)
>>> on the side opposite the one front wheel. I wonder to what extent
>>> that might address the stability issues inherent in three-wheelers.
>>
>> <Boggle>
>>
>> Ever ridden a sidecar outfit? Strange, but huge, huge fun. Until you
>> crash. And everyone does.
>
> though
> as in a variation on something like a Bond 875.
There weren't any stabiliy problems with the "Orange Shitebox" Bond Bug. The
Reliant on the other hand....
Beav
> Sean_Q_ <no....@no.spam> wrote:
>
>> The Older Gentleman wrote:
>>
>> > Ever ridden a sidecar outfit? Strange, but huge, huge fun. Until you
>> > crash. And everyone does.
>>
>
> <Raps on monitor>
>
> Dick Van Dyke Is that you?
>
>>TOGster, don't just drop
>> a conversational bomb like that and then casually stroll on your
>> merry way out the door without another word... I wanna hear more
>> about how I'm likely to crash and what can I do to avoid it.
>>
>
> The danger comes when you attempt a fast left-hander - well,
> right-hander for you lot, as your chairs are fixed to the right-hand
> side of the bike.
>
> And you start to panic, and the siscar wheel lifts and the bars snap
> straight and... well, then everything depends on road furniture and
> run-off space.
>
> When I bought my outfit there was a flywheel from (I was told) an old
> Sunbeam car as ballast in the chair. I threw it out, and then discovered
> why it was there.
Oddly enough, it was removing the ballast from my pals Sunbeam outfit that
caused the problem I had, but the ballast wasn't inanimate, it was another
pal called Kenny, who bailed out coz he KNEW what was about to happen and
prefered to watch from the sidelines.
Beav
> Beauregard T. Shagnasty <a.non...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>> > ending is shrieking: "BRAKE! BRAKE NOW OR YOU'RE GOING TO DIE!"
>>
>> Ah yes. Maybe that occurs because there is no real training offered - at
>> least on this side of the pond.
>
> and the learning curve is steep :-)
I don't know if things have changed, but when I was a yoof, you could ride
any capacity bike with "L" plates and no instructor/licensed passenger as
long as it had a chair attached. No training available and it probably
wouldn't have been taken advantage of it had there been.
>
> And I think there are very few experienced outfit pilots who'd want to
> go in the chair and talk the newbie through the Black Art. I wouldn't,
> anyway.
Nor me. Well not unless I weighed 400 lbs.
Beav
> Robert Bolton <robertbo...@gci.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 17:06:08 +0000, totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk (The
>> Older Gentleman) wrote:
>>
>> >Beauregard T. Shagnasty <a.non...@example.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> >> It would be a good idea to find someone with a sidecar rig and beg a
>> >> test-drive before you decide to buy. Test in a large empty parking
>> >> lot.
>> >
>> >This is good advice.
>> >
>> I agree.
>>
>> >My wife tried to master my combo in a large empty car park, and gavce up
>> >in the end, saying it was horrible. Oh well.
>>
>> My wife tells me she could handle riding a sidecar rig, a trike, and
>> even the Spyder types whenever she sees them on the road. Her balance
>> isn't good enough for two wheels (it's hardly good enough for her to
>> stand still). No way will I ever allow her to try it even in a
>> parking lot. She's too brain damaged from being hit by a cage to risk
>> such a thing. She drives her auto competently, owns the safest one
>> available (good size, ABS, air bags all around), and her meds keep her
>> epilepsy at bay. That's it for her.
>
> In the UK , epilepsy = no licence. At all.
Best not tell Jack then TOG
Beav
And yet... Jack :-)
Beav
"S'mee" <steven...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a3b345c5-87da-48dd...@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Well you're perfectly correct on the nanny state thing, but TOG was just a
bit out on this one. Epileptics can have a license, they just have to have
their condition well controlled.
Beav
"Robert Bolton" <robertbo...@gci.net> wrote in message
news:cmcvj593357i9jvtc...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 08:04:43 -0500, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
> <a.non...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Robert Bolton wrote:
>>
>>> Man, I had no idea. The wife's been talking about sidecars for a
>>> couple years now. When the time comes that she's too old to hang on
>>> back there I'll be sure to get some lessons before I get one of those
>>> and kill us both.
>>
>>test-drive before you decide to buy. Test in a large empty parking lot.
>>
> invited me to test ride one of the Ural setups. I didn't bother to
> take him up on it as I wasn't seriously considering one (max speed 60
> mph)
>
>>Driving a rig efficiently boils down to one thing. You have to mentally
>>adapt to *steer* and not *counter-steer.*
>
> Steering under normal conditions seems simple enough simple. It's
> when the rig leaves the ground I'd worry about self destructing.
>
> recently aired an audio of a poor fellow calling 911 to report his
> throttle being stuck to the floor of his cage. He'd burned up the
> brakes trying to stop, and was at the time headed for an intersection.
> You'd think all he needed to do upon finding the throttle stuck would
> be to slip the tranny into neutral, but I guess he hadn't though of
> that.
Don't they have ignition keys on these cars? As it happens, I never believe
this "My throttle's stuck and I can't stop" bullshit.
If they've got time and the "foresight" to ring 911, they've got time to
think about ways to stop and the simple way is to switch the fucking engine
off.
Beav
"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.non...@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:hhogma$7md$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Ding-fucking-dong.
Beav
> On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 16:10:31 -0800 (PST), "S'mee"
> <steven...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Jan 2, 3:17 pm, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
>><a.nony.m...@example.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> I saw that video. Sheesh, the guy had a good half-minute to shift into
>>> neutral and turn off the KEY! The video cut off as he entered an
>>> intersection. I sure hope his stupidity didn't kill any innocents.
>>
>>You have that backwards...motor off then neutral and yes virginia you
>>can turn off a cage without locking the steering wheel.
>>
> I don't know about modern cars, but shutting the engine down on old
> cars meant losing the vacuum assist on power brakes. You could still
> stop but you had to press a lot harder on the brakes. Either way
> would have worked.
Even with servo assisted/vacuum assisted brakes, the brakes work well unless
you pump the shit out of them. One application and keep your foot ON the
brakes and the unpowered car will stop as quickly as it would if the motor
was still running.
>
> It may be the guy had never played around with the transmission and
> just didn't know neutral was the place to be.
Or he was being a cunt and bullshitting the world. Seems like he managed it
too.
Beav
> S'mee <steven...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Such an optomist...occam's razor says he paniced and never even
>> thought of putting it in neutral or turning off the key.
>
> Or he just wanted to be on the TV news.
My thoughts exactly TOG.
Beav
> don (Calgary) <hd....@telus.net> wrote:
>
>> I am not sure about power steering but I am pretty sure you get a pump
>> or two out of the brakes before the power goes away.
>
> You do on any car I've driven. Plus a short amount of steering
> assistance.
Certainly if you simply switch the ignition off but leave it in gear, you
have ALL the assistance still available. Steering and brakes.
Vito
| >
| >> > It takes amazing willpower to get on the power when every nerve
| >> > ending is shrieking: "BRAKE! BRAKE NOW OR YOU'RE GOING TO DIE!"
| >>
| >> Ah yes. Maybe that occurs because there is no real training offered -
at
| >> least on this side of the pond.
| >
| > There isn't here, either. At least, not for outfits. You're on your own,
| > and the learning curve is steep :-)
|
Sidecars take very little training if one has common sense. My training
comprised less than ten minutes and about three corners. Taught me all I
needed to know - to wit: never drive one again! :-)
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> Sidecars take very little training if one has common sense. My
> training comprised less than ten minutes and about three corners.
> Taught me all I needed to know - to wit: never drive one again! :-)
<lol!>
Wimp!
--
-bts
-Four wheels carry the body; three wheels move the soul
Vito
|
| > Sidecars take very little training if one has common sense. My
| > training comprised less than ten minutes and about three corners.
| > Taught me all I needed to know - to wit: never drive one again! :-)
|
| <lol!>
|
| Wimp!
|
bike but they never offered to let a kid like me drive one. Beyond that I
figure that if I need more than 2 wheels I may as well pick a cage buy ymmv.
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" wrote
Ah, the Flexis... what fun! I was lucky enough to drive Pop Dreyer's
flexible rig around the rally grounds at a Lake Shakamak BMW rally in
Indiana, back in the late 70s.
http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/halloffame/hofbiopage.asp?id=63
There have been a few other attempts at flexible rigs, but none became
really popular.
--
-bts
Vito
| flexible rig around the rally grounds at a Lake Shakamak BMW rally in
| Indiana, back in the late 70s.
|
| http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/halloffame/hofbiopage.asp?id=63
|
| There have been a few other attempts at flexible rigs, but none became
| really popular.
|
will be so remembered 50 years from now. It was a great generation.
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" wrote
>| Ah, the Flexis... what fun! I was lucky enough to drive Pop
>| Dreyer's flexible rig around the rally grounds at a Lake Shakamak
>| BMW rally in Indiana, back in the late 70s.
>|
>| http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/halloffame/hofbiopage.asp?id=63
>|
>| There have been a few other attempts at flexible rigs, but none
>| became really popular.
>
> Lucky You! (sincerly). Reading the link on "Pop" I wondered if any
> of us will be so remembered 50 years from now.
I know a couple folks who might, because of accumulating motormiles well
in excess of a million. But not many others.
> It was a great generation.
Yes it was, and I miss it. :-)
Fraser Johnston
"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.non...@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:hhng9b$b7l$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Robert Bolton wrote:
>
>> Man, I had no idea. The wife's been talking about sidecars for a
>> couple years now. When the time comes that she's too old to hang on
>> back there I'll be sure to get some lessons before I get one of those
>> and kill us both.
>
> It would be a good idea to find someone with a sidecar rig and beg a
> test-drive before you decide to buy. Test in a large empty parking lot.
>
> adapt to *steer* and not *counter-steer.*
Sounds like a Can-Am Spider. Just strange to ride.
Fraser
Fraser Johnston
> Robert Bolton <robertbo...@gci.net> wrote:
>
>> >
>> >> It would be a good idea to find someone with a sidecar rig and beg a
>> >> test-drive before you decide to buy. Test in a large empty parking lot.
>> >
>> >
>> I agree.
>>
>> >My wife tried to master my combo in a large empty car park, and gavce up
>> >in the end, saying it was horrible. Oh well.
>>
>> My wife tells me she could handle riding a sidecar rig, a trike, and
>> even the Spyder types whenever she sees them on the road. Her balance
>> isn't good enough for two wheels (it's hardly good enough for her to
>> stand still). No way will I ever allow her to try it even in a
>> parking lot. She's too brain damaged from being hit by a cage to risk
>> such a thing. She drives her auto competently, owns the safest one
>> available (good size, ABS, air bags all around), and her meds keep her
>> epilepsy at bay. That's it for her.
>
> In the UK , epilepsy = no licence. At all.
And here. I pulled a guy out of his car and stopped him from choking to death
on his tounge a few months back. He had an epileptic fit and went straight
through a neighbours limestone wall. If he went left instead of right he would
of collected me an our 3 boys playing in the front yard. The cops who took my
statement said he would never drive again. I felt pretty sorry for him. He
was only about 21.
Fraser