Suggestions for avoiding rust on rotors ?
Ron Gibson
covered of course.
But even then whenever it rains some moisture manages to get on the
front rotor and rust starts forming almost immediately.
A common problem I'm sure and the concern is mostly cosmetic, but I
want to keep it in as good a shape as possible, of course.
I used a small amount of WD40, then cleaned it off and that did an OK
job but common sense would suggest using WD40 on a brake rotor surface
is not a good idea as a regular procedure.
Anyone got a suggestion on this one? I've never had this problem
before as up until about a year ago I always kept it in a garage in a
home but now I an apartment dweller.
BTW, I know it is common as I've seen plenty of bikes with some rust
on the rotors, particularly the cooling holes.
--
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Mark Olson
> I just got a new gixxer 600. Unfortunately I have to keep it outside,
> covered of course.
>
> But even then whenever it rains some moisture manages to get on the
> front rotor and rust starts forming almost immediately.
>
> A common problem I'm sure and the concern is mostly cosmetic, but I
> want to keep it in as good a shape as possible, of course.
>
> I used a small amount of WD40, then cleaned it off and that did an OK
> job but common sense would suggest using WD40 on a brake rotor surface
> is not a good idea as a regular procedure.
YOU THINK?
If you didn't use brake cleaner to clean off the WD-40 there's probably
still some residue there. Buy a can of brake cleaner (about $2-$3 at
Wal-Mart) and finish the job.
http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/images/product/q135084.jpg
Next, let it rust. The first time you use the brake the rust will
disappear. If there's any rust on it after riding, you're not riding
enough or you're only using the rear brake.
The Older Gentleman
> I just got a new gixxer 600. Unfortunately I have to keep it outside,
> covered of course.
>
> But even then whenever it rains some moisture manages to get on the
> front rotor and rust starts forming almost immediately.
And it'll come off as soon as you use the brakes. Live with it.
>
> A common problem I'm sure and the concern is mostly cosmetic, but I
> want to keep it in as good a shape as possible, of course.
>
> I used a small amount of WD40, then cleaned it off and that did an OK
> job but common sense would suggest using WD40 on a brake rotor surface
> is not a good idea as a regular procedure.
No shit.
>
> Anyone got a suggestion on this one? I've never had this problem
> before as up until about a year ago I always kept it in a garage in a
> home but now I an apartment dweller.
>
> BTW, I know it is common as I've seen plenty of bikes with some rust
> on the rotors, particularly the cooling holes.
Live with it.
--
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Ron Gibson
wrote:
>> I used a small amount of WD40, then cleaned it off and that did an OK
>> job but common sense would suggest using WD40 on a brake rotor surface
>> is not a good idea as a regular procedure.
>YOU THINK?
Not right away. The engineer in me required I do 8 pages of
calculations first.
IOW, of course I "think" that ;=/
>If you didn't use brake cleaner to clean off the WD-40 there's probably
>still some residue there. Buy a can of brake cleaner (about $2-$3 at
>Wal-Mart) and finish the job.
>http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/images/product/q135084.jpg
>Next, let it rust. The first time you use the brake the rust will
>disappear. If there's any rust on it after riding, you're not riding
>enough or you're only using the rear brake.
Well this developed in just 2 days of light to moderate rain and I
live in Florida where we often get rain for weeks at a time.
If left too long this will start to "pit" the rotor surface. The
cooling holes are another issue. A small straight line grinder with a
wire brush attachment should do the trick for them if they get too
ugly.
I'm surprised no one suggested using steel wool, which just occurred
to me a little while ago.
Now in industry corrosion almost always causes problems if left to
proceed unchecked. So you guys can drive around on rust buckets if you
like - Me, I'll be removing it as fast and as often as I can. In fact
just got back in from cleaning up the splatter on the lower parts of
the bike (rain droplets hit the ground hard enough to cause splashing
from ground to under the bottom of it's cover), running it enough to
remove any residual moisture possible and applying brakes slightly to
polish the rotors.
I live in an upstairs apartment that was converted from an old home so
outside is not paved and sand comes along with the water too. I have
to park it where I do and secure it with special anti-theft braided
steel cable and a lock with a octangular boron carbide hasp (1).
So the threat of theft restricts where I can park the bike. I think I
will try using some patio stones to see if that will hold down the
splash as I don't want to be fighting this all summer during the rainy
season.
PS: Regarding residue - The heat developed by applying brakes will
cook that pretty quickly into compounds that aren't a problem as long
as small amounts are used. The bigger issue is absorption and
accelerated deterioration of the brake pads.
(1) Boron carbide (chemical formula B4C) is an extremely hard ceramic
material used in tank armor, bulletproof vests, and numerous
industrial applications. With a hardness of 9.3 on the mohs scale, it
is one of the hardest materials known, behind cubic boron nitride and
diamond.
M.Badger
> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 11:13:46 -0600, Mark Olson <ols...@tiny.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>> I used a small amount of WD40, then cleaned it off and that did an OK
>>> job but common sense would suggest using WD40 on a brake rotor surface
>>> is not a good idea as a regular procedure.
>
>>YOU THINK?
>
> Not right away. The engineer in me required I do 8 pages of
> calculations first.
>
> IOW, of course I "think" that ;=/
:-)
>
>>If you didn't use brake cleaner to clean off the WD-40 there's probably
>>still some residue there. Buy a can of brake cleaner (about $2-$3 at
>>Wal-Mart) and finish the job.
>
>>http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/images/product/q135084.jpg
>
>>Next, let it rust. The first time you use the brake the rust will
>>disappear. If there's any rust on it after riding, you're not riding
>>enough or you're only using the rear brake.
>
> Well this developed in just 2 days of light to moderate rain and I
> live in Florida where we often get rain for weeks at a time.
So Florida is a warm version of Yorkshire.
>
> If left too long this will start to "pit" the rotor surface. The
> cooling holes are another issue. A small straight line grinder with a
> wire brush attachment should do the trick for them if they get too
> ugly.
Micro pitting on the rotor surface isn't actually a bad thing. Without going
in to how the brake actually works ( I'll leave that as an optional
exercise ), micro pitting increases Mu.
>
> I'm surprised no one suggested using steel wool, which just occurred
> to me a little while ago.
Stainless steel wool for preference. Personally, I'd leave well alone. Each
time you scrub the disc back to a clean surface, you are actually reducing
Mu until the rotor is recoated with the pad material. Again, look it up.
>
> Now in industry corrosion almost always causes problems if left to
> proceed unchecked. So you guys can drive around on rust buckets if you
> like - Me, I'll be removing it as fast and as often as I can. In fact
> just got back in from cleaning up the splatter on the lower parts of
> the bike (rain droplets hit the ground hard enough to cause splashing
> from ground to under the bottom of it's cover), running it enough to
> remove any residual moisture possible and applying brakes slightly to
> polish the rotors.
I don't live in Florida. I live in Yorkshire. A wet part of Yorkshire. We
don't get the humidity and heat you get, but by 'eck we get rain. If I
leave the bike uncovered, it rots less than when covered. Looks like shyte
though. I guess the air flow helps. Could be wrong and am more than willing
to be pointed in the right direction.
>
> I live in an upstairs apartment that was converted from an old home so
> outside is not paved and sand comes along with the water too. I have
> to park it where I do and secure it with special anti-theft braided
> steel cable and a lock with a octangular boron carbide hasp (1).
>
> So the threat of theft restricts where I can park the bike. I think I
> will try using some patio stones to see if that will hold down the
> splash as I don't want to be fighting this all summer during the rainy
> season.
Daft though this will sound, could you park it on some Nylon carpet?. It'll
break up the splash and hold some of the sand.
Also, Scottoil FS365, or similar, liberally applied to everywhere -except-
tyres and brakes helps keep corrosion down.
>
> PS: Regarding residue - The heat developed by applying brakes will
> cook that pretty quickly into compounds that aren't a problem as long
> as small amounts are used. The bigger issue is absorption and
> accelerated deterioration of the brake pads.
Given you can't increase clamping pressure, and given the reduction in Mu
until the contaminants are driven off, I'd go for micro pitting any day.
Once the pads have been heat cycled a few times, any contamination will be
limited to the outer edges. The operating face is not that absorbant, but
still, why risk it.
This is based on you still having the original rotors. If you have replaced
them with some whizzy aftermarket stuff, bets may well be off. Personally,
I'll never use cast iron rotors on a road bike again.
>
> (1) Boron carbide (chemical formula B4C) is an extremely hard ceramic
> material used in tank armor, bulletproof vests, and numerous
> industrial applications. With a hardness of 9.3 on the mohs scale, it
> is one of the hardest materials known, behind cubic boron nitride and
> diamond.
How well does it cope when whacked with a hammer and chisel?. Is it an outer
coating or B4C all the way?. Genuinely curious, not baiting here.
>
The Older Gentleman
> Personally, I'd leave well alone.
Listen to this man. He speaks truth.
Ron Gibson
wrote:
>> Well this developed in just 2 days of light to moderate rain and I
>> live in Florida where we often get rain for weeks at a time.
>So Florida is a warm version of Yorkshire.
Pretty much. Are you close to the ocean? I am fairly close about 10
miles. What happens is that onshore winds also carry some salt and
that can really wreak havoc with metals. Around here if you are ocean
front cars and other vehicles will almost rust away as you watch :-(
>> If left too long this will start to "pit" the rotor surface. The
>> cooling holes are another issue. A small straight line grinder with a
>> wire brush attachment should do the trick for them if they get too
>> ugly.
>Micro pitting on the rotor surface isn't actually a bad thing. Without going
>in to how the brake actually works ( I'll leave that as an optional
>exercise ), micro pitting increases Mu.
The coefficient of friction. Actually the front brake on these new
gixxers are a bear. It would lock easily with too much lever. IOW,
that's true but surveying that issue without a detailed study I'd say
the brake is more than enough as is so...
Also too much pitting and that would tend to "tear" away the pad
material somewhat, decreasing pad life. Remember brake specialists
like to turn the rotors to smooth 'em up.
>> I'm surprised no one suggested using steel wool, which just occurred
>> to me a little while ago.
>Stainless steel wool for preference. Personally, I'd leave well alone. Each
>time you scrub the disc back to a clean surface, you are actually reducing
>Mu until the rotor is recoated with the pad material. Again, look it up.
If it's a small amount of rust the effect would be too small to be
important. I keep after it and have handy stored a few feet away stuff
to keep the niggles away like tar and bug remover, some Armorall, etc.
It's a judgment decision when to hit the rust. If it's just a small
spot, that I'd just let the pads polish it up. The recent action I
took was because it surpassed the "neglect or not" threshold, my
standards of course
>I don't live in Florida. I live in Yorkshire. A wet part of Yorkshire. We
>don't get the humidity and heat you get, but by 'eck we get rain. If I
>leave the bike uncovered, it rots less than when covered. Looks like shyte
>though. I guess the air flow helps. Could be wrong and am more than willing
>to be pointed in the right direction.
>> So the threat of theft restricts where I can park the bike. I think I
>> will try using some patio stones to see if that will hold down the
>> splash as I don't want to be fighting this all summer during the rainy
>> season.
>Daft though this will sound, could you park it on some Nylon carpet?. It'll
>break up the splash and hold some of the sand.
I've might just do that. Of course I can't do anything that would
upset the landlord, albeit I'm his anchor tenant and we get along
great. I'd just pour a small slab of concrete to park it on but he
might be reluctant to let me do that because it's a bit of work to
demolish. That's why I was thinking the patio stones as they are easy
to remove.
>Also, Scottoil FS365, or similar, liberally applied to everywhere -except-
>tyres and brakes helps keep corrosion down.
I got to check that one out. Sounds like a good one to add to the
arsenal. One reason I always ask on stuff like this is in my 40 years
of riding, I've gotten some real bogus items (cleaners especially) a
few times
>Given you can't increase clamping pressure, and given the reduction in Mu
>until the contaminants are driven off, I'd go for micro pitting any day.
>Once the pads have been heat cycled a few times, any contamination will be
>limited to the outer edges. The operating face is not that absorbant, but
>still, why risk it.
I had a fork seal leak once and that really did a number of the pads
by the time I got around to fixing the seals. It got on the pads in a
different manner though trickling down the fork.
>> (1) Boron carbide (chemical formula B4C) is an extremely hard ceramic
>> material used in tank armor, bulletproof vests, and numerous
>> industrial applications. With a hardness of 9.3 on the mohs scale, it
>> is one of the hardest materials known, behind cubic boron nitride and
>> diamond.
>How well does it cope when whacked with a hammer and chisel?. Is it an outer
>coating or B4C all the way?. Genuinely curious, not baiting here.
I don't really know but it was the best padlock in the store. Remember
I mentioned the hasp has an octangular cross section - That is because
when you try bolt cutters on the lock they can't get a good grip. That
shape causes the cutters to turn on you and slip especially on a hard
substance like this.
I don't think there is any one best antitheft strategy. You sort of
have to match what measures you take to the circumstances.
But there is really no fool proof solution as any antitheft measure
within reason could be overcome. The best you can do is make it so
difficult that the thief passes you up and goes and steals the $25,000
Harley down the road that is not as secured as your machine is.
It also helps that where I am as the rear area has no way to get a
truck in (the old lift it up and toss the bike in the truck bed) and
the bike is about 100 feet from the street with neighbors close.
S'mee
Using WD40 or any other OIL on brake rotors is not just a bad idea
it's a STUPID idea....you weren't drinking were you? Seriously though,
don't worry about the rust. Just get rid of the car/truck/suv and ride
the damn bike year round and I promise you that you'll NEVER have rust
on the rotors.
But hey, what could I know having spent a couple years riding in
western washington (you know the WET side) Never got rusty brakes.
M.Badger
> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 21:04:36 +0000, "M.Badger" <bo...@invalid.org>
> wrote:
>
>>> Well this developed in just 2 days of light to moderate rain and I
>>> live in Florida where we often get rain for weeks at a time.
>
>>So Florida is a warm version of Yorkshire.
>
> Pretty much. Are you close to the ocean? I am fairly close about 10
> miles. What happens is that onshore winds also carry some salt and
> that can really wreak havoc with metals. Around here if you are ocean
> front cars and other vehicles will almost rust away as you watch :-(
Nah. Roughly in the middle of the country, but very high up. Our local
councils put tons of salt on the roads over winter. It has a similar
effect.
<snip>
>
> The coefficient of friction. Actually the front brake on these new
> gixxers are a bear. It would lock easily with too much lever. IOW,
> that's true but surveying that issue without a detailed study I'd say
> the brake is more than enough as is so...
>
> Also too much pitting and that would tend to "tear" away the pad
> material somewhat, decreasing pad life. Remember brake specialists
> like to turn the rotors to smooth 'em up.
More to restore a flat surface and remove rotor galling. A lot of the local
classic racers use cast iron discs in preference to stainless/high chrome.
Their method of 'conditioning' the disc?, yup, you guessed it, a fine
coating of surface rust. The surface sloughs off any glaze on the pad and
hastens the transfer of material to the disc. Having worked with, ridden
with and done trackdays with these folk, I bow to their knowledge and
experience.
I know what you mean about modern brakes. Bit sharp at times for me.
<snip>
>
> It's a judgment decision when to hit the rust. If it's just a small
> spot, that I'd just let the pads polish it up. The recent action I
> took was because it surpassed the "neglect or not" threshold, my
> standards of course
Hey, go with your standards. I would counsel against the use of WD-40 on
rotors though.
<snip>
>>Daft though this will sound, could you park it on some Nylon carpet?.
>>It'll break up the splash and hold some of the sand.
>
> I've might just do that. Of course I can't do anything that would
> upset the landlord, albeit I'm his anchor tenant and we get along
> great. I'd just pour a small slab of concrete to park it on but he
> might be reluctant to let me do that because it's a bit of work to
> demolish. That's why I was thinking the patio stones as they are easy
> to remove.
Would the landlord allow a gazebo?. Not a permament structure, one of the
fabric ones.
>
>>Also, Scottoil FS365, or similar, liberally applied to everywhere -except-
>>tyres and brakes helps keep corrosion down.
>
> I got to check that one out. Sounds like a good one to add to the
> arsenal.
It works.
http://www.scottoiler.com for more info.
> One reason I always ask on stuff like this is in my 40 years
> of riding, I've gotten some real bogus items (cleaners especially) a
> few times
>
Aye. There is some rubbish out there. For what little its worth, I will
personally recommend FS365. There is also ACF50. Bit more complex to apply,
more expensive, but some folk swear by it. Do -not- get that on your
rotors!
<snip>
> I had a fork seal leak once and that really did a number of the pads
> by the time I got around to fixing the seals. It got on the pads in a
> different manner though trickling down the fork.
:-) I think we've all been there.
>
Love the bit in your sig about Ubuntu. Made me chuckle.
>