IOM
Henry
Isn't it time to stop ?
I don't buy the "free will" thing. There's money to be made, and
reputations to be built.
I also don't buy this "he died doing what he loved". What bullshit; he
loved his wife and children and his friends too.
Champ
<snogfest_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I was sad to see another countryman of mine die at the TT.
Ah, didn't realise you were a kiwi?
>Isn't it time to stop ?
Maybe. Do you want to stop mountaineering and other sports that have
an element of danger? People die fishing, you know.
>I don't buy the "free will" thing. There's money to be made, and
>reputations to be built.
Not really. Only the top 15 or so in the field are actually being
paid to ride in the TT, and without exception all of those guys are
road-racing specialists have chosen to be there. No one is "required"
to race the TT anymore. As for reputations, well, sure, you build a
reputation as a great TT rider, but you can chose to race short
circuits instead, if you want.
At the Manx GP, there's around 200 competitors who are almost all
entirely self-financed. And they get barely any media coverage
either.
>I also don't buy this "he died doing what he loved". What bullshit; he
>loved his wife and children and his friends too.
This ultimately comes down to one's philosophy of life. Is a life to
be spent making your own choices, and doing the things you love (in
the knowledge that these very activities could shorten one's life), or
is a life merely to be measured in years attained and grandchildren
produced?
I'm sure Paul Dobbs (who I met several times, and shared a few cups of
tea with in the paddock and at Slick's workshop) would rather be with
his wife and kids than in a hole in the ground. But, I'm not sure
that, if given the choice between never racing the TT, or doing it
with the sure knowledge that it would take him to an early grave, he
would have chosen the former.
And then there's the Mike Hailwood scenario. He raced at the top
level, for many years, on some of the most dangerous circuits in the
world. He retied, and then he was killed driving home from the chip
shop, by an errant trucker.
I raced at the Manx GP three times, and broke my legs (among assorted
other bones) racing at another roads circuit (Jurby South) two weeks
before what would have been my TT debut in 2008. So I like to think I
speak from an informed position. Riding the TT Mountain Course (as
it's formally known) is, imo, motorcycling's Everest. People will
always want to do it. Who are you to say they shouldn't.
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk
Ed Light
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Julian Bond
>This ultimately comes down to one's philosophy of life. Is a life to
>be spent making your own choices, and doing the things you love (in
>the knowledge that these very activities could shorten one's life), or
>is a life merely to be measured in years attained and grandchildren
>produced?
There's hard decisions too for the people involved in organisation. You
can tell yourself you're doing the best you can to make sure the event
is as safe as it can possibly be. But there's the nagging doubt that you
are also helping people to hurt themselves. I've known people (like my
Dad) who eventually gave up helping organise race meetings after one
inquest too many.
The one that pissed me off this year was Martin Loicht. He was only
racing in the Supersports to get the right license to be able to race in
the TT Zero electric M/C race.
--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
Everything That Can Happen, Does Happen
Henry
> On Mon, 28 Jun 2010 04:30:49 -0700 (PDT), Henry
>
> >I was sad to see another countryman of mine die at the TT.
>
> Ah, didn't realise you were a kiwi?
>
> >Isn't it time to stop ?
>
> Maybe. Do you want to stop mountaineering and other sports that have
> an element of danger? People die fishing, you know.
>
more people die playing outdoor bowls here than any other sport.
> >I don't buy the "free will" thing. There's money to be made, and
> >reputations to be built.
>
> Not really. Only the top 15 or so in the field are actually being
> paid to ride in the TT, and without exception all of those guys are
> road-racing specialists have chosen to be there. No one is "required"
> to race the TT anymore. As for reputations, well, sure, you build a
> reputation as a great TT rider, but you can chose to race short
> circuits instead, if you want.
>
> At the Manx GP, there's around 200 competitors who are almost all
> entirely self-financed. And they get barely any media coverage
> either.
>
> >I also don't buy this "he died doing what he loved". What bullshit; he
> >loved his wife and children and his friends too.
>
> This ultimately comes down to one's philosophy of life. Is a life to
> be spent making your own choices, and doing the things you love (in
> the knowledge that these very activities could shorten one's life), or
> is a life merely to be measured in years attained and grandchildren
> produced?
>
> I'm sure Paul Dobbs (who I met several times, and shared a few cups of
> tea with in the paddock and at Slick's workshop) would rather be with
> his wife and kids than in a hole in the ground. But, I'm not sure
> that, if given the choice between never racing the TT, or doing it
> with the sure knowledge that it would take him to an early grave, he
> would have chosen the former.
>
> And then there's the Mike Hailwood scenario. He raced at the top
> level, for many years, on some of the most dangerous circuits in the
> world. He retied, and then he was killed driving home from the chip
> shop, by an errant trucker.
>
I ride a bicycle in a city full of homicical maniacs. Swim in a
freezing harbour with all sort of things floating in it/on it. Keep
worrying about Jaws.
> I raced at the Manx GP three times, and broke my legs (among assorted
> other bones) racing at another roads circuit (Jurby South) two weeks
> before what would have been my TT debut in 2008. So I like to think I
> speak from an informed position. Riding the TT Mountain Course (as
> it's formally known) is, imo, motorcycling's Everest. People will
> always want to do it. Who are you to say they shouldn't.
>
It's just too dangerous. The riders stand such a high chance of death
or serious injury because of the high speeds and the nature of the
curcuit.
Why don't we allow performance enhancing drugs for athletes ? why does
the TT check the bikes and riders before races?
If there was no more carnage at the TT than any other race circuit,
then I wouldn't be so left-wing about this
Ed Light
> If there was no more carnage at the TT than any other race circuit,
> then I wouldn't be so left-wing about this
Henry
> On 6/30/2010 5:44 PM, Henry wrote:> If there was no more carnage at the TT than any other race circuit,
> > then I wouldn't be so left-wing about this
>
> Left wing is letting people do their thing - tolerance.
tap us on the shoulder and say "bad idea".
Julian Bond
>On 6/30/2010 5:44 PM, Henry wrote:
>> If there was no more carnage at the TT than any other race circuit,
>> then I wouldn't be so left-wing about this
>Left wing is letting people do their thing - tolerance.
IMHO you're both confusing Left-wing/Right-wing (Socialist/Capitalist)
with Authoritarian-Libertarian. And I really don't see how any of those
4 political corners have anything to do with whether the IOM (and all
the Irish road racing) should continue to exist.
Phew. Nearly got a bit political there, but I think I got it back on
topic.
--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
Different Is Good
Champ
<snogfest_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I don't have a problem with freedom of choice.
This is the nub of it, then. People *want* to race there.
Henry
> On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 17:44:45 -0700 (PDT), Henry
>
> >I don't have a problem with freedom of choice.
>
> This is the nub of it, then. People *want* to race there.
> --
> Champ
> neal at champ dot org dot uk
but lots of people want to smoke crack, have sex with minors, beat up
gays.
OK, I make your point. I'll give up on this one :)
I think it's like binge drinking, no easy answer.
Champ
<snogfest_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> <snogfest_hosebe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >I don't have a problem with freedom of choice.
>>
>> This is the nub of it, then. People *want* to race there.
>but lots of people want to smoke crack, have sex with minors, beat up
>gays.
I hope you don't need me to point out the obvious differences (apart,
perhaps, from smoking crack)
>OK, I make your point. I'll give up on this one :)
:-)