Painting Revisited Again...
Freesoft
I know it's been beat to death but I'm looking for sights which
explain the painting process. My daughter attacked a Texas tree with
our S-10 Blazer, the tree won. We've finished the body work and I
received a DeVILBISS external mix sprayer for Christmas. The local
paint shop has the thinners and paint for about $85 (one fender and
hood). I'm also picking up a strainer and consistancy cup (I have no
idea if that's the correct term or not).
The paint shop said that since it's new metal, it shouldn't
require much prep. They did say to remove the black primer since they
are aftermarket fenders. The OEM fenders have good primer,
aftermarket doesn't. We are also picking up the paper and masking
tape this weekend to protect the undamaged areas from overspray.
Additionally, we are picking up a regulator and filter along with a
whip hose for the gun. The paint supplier recommended using a wet
sander with very fine grit and a cool stream of steady water to remove
the old primer. Then dry and wipe the surface down with a tack cloth.
I supposed to have the primer and paint premixed in clean
containers ready to spray after the tack cloth wipe down. Spray the
primer directly at the surface starting with the edge of the hood
furthest away from me. The gun is held at 8-12 inches from the
surface and kept perpendiculat at all times. I'm supposed to finish a
stoke by easing up on the trigger just enough to stop fluid flow and
then resqueeze and have the fluid flowing before reaching the area to
paint. Each pass should provide 50% overlap with the previous pass.
After the primer has finished, I'm supposed to wait a 30 minute
flash period (variable depending upon temperature and drying additives
added to the paint). Then hit it with two coats of the final color
with appropriate flash times between coats.
Since this vehicle does not have a clear coat on it, I'm supposed to
be ready to compound the rest of the car one week later to help match
the colors.
I'll be practicing on a Camaro which is sitting in the driveway
before hitting the S-10.
AM I MISSING ANYTHING HERE OR AM I ABOUT TO MAKE SOME GROSS ERROR
BASED ON WHAT I'VE SAID? Please tell me now.
The motorcycle relation.
If this works, I'll start byrepainting a helmet to match my tanks
and them move onto other parts such as pushrod tubes.
Thanks in advance.
MArk
Panhead
Freesoft wrote:
>
> This question is kinda on subject as you'll see at the end...
>
> I know it's been beat to death but I'm looking for sights which
> explain the painting process. My daughter attacked a Texas tree with
> our S-10 Blazer, the tree won. We've finished the body work and I
> received a DeVILBISS external mix sprayer for Christmas.
And don't forget a GREAT respirator and fans to exhaust the
fumes and spray!
> The paint shop said that since it's new metal, it shouldn't
> require much prep. They did say to remove the black primer since they
> are aftermarket fenders.
I would tend to agree. Some of those "primers" that they use are
pretty crappy.
The insides of the hood and fender should be ok tho, if you just
scuff them up good with a red scotch-brite pad™. (Uh, you _are_
going to cut in these parts, right?... hopefully before you
install the tin? I would.
Also, I don't know what brand or type of paints you plan on
using or, what type of primer or primer surfacer you are going to
be using, or even the color. Is it solid or a metallic?
The OEM fenders have good primer,
> aftermarket doesn't. We are also picking up the paper and masking
> tape this weekend to protect the undamaged areas from overspray.
> Additionally, we are picking up a regulator and filter along with a
> whip hose for the gun. The paint supplier recommended using a wet
> sander with very fine grit and a cool stream of steady water to remove
> the old primer. Then dry and wipe the surface down with a tack cloth.
To remove the aftermarket primer I wouldn't use wet or by hand.
That takes for ever and makes a mess. Bare metal and water don't
like each other. I've always used 80 to 180 grit with a DA to
quickly remove that cheesy black stuff (220 just to sand (not
remove) on genuine OEM parts) and then WAX-n-Grease remover and
prime with something like DP-40, wait 30 minutes, paint.
To sand/scuff adjacent panels for blending, maybe. Otherwise,
compounding the adjacent areas and the use of an adhesion
promoter works very well.
When I was in Nevada, they had this stuff called "TING" that
worked absolutely great.
It's kinda like a paste/soap/degreaser that when used with water
and a FINE (and I do mean F-I-N-E!) scotch-brite™ ,worked bitchen
for cleaning and getting the adjacent, painted panels ready to
blend into... even on non clearcoated metalics.
Also, the spraying technique you mentioned sounded kinda
strange. I would get the edges first (Wheel openings, leading and
trailing edges of the hood) first. Then work across the hood and
down the side.
> Since this vehicle does not have a clear coat on it, I'm supposed to
> be ready to compound the rest of the car one week later to help match
> the colors.
Ahem. Compound the car NOW, before you start any painting. That
way you have a "new" or "opened" coat of paint that will be
better to see if the paint you have is going to match. Use a fine
polish..._then_ prep the areas that you will blend onto if you
are needing to. And you will need to compound first if you are
planning to do any blending. So, get it over with now.
(No clear on it, eh? Must be an older S-10 or solid color?)
Anyway, polish it out now.
Then later, if it needs it to get rid of bugs and cracker
crumbs.
> AM I MISSING ANYTHING HERE OR AM I ABOUT TO MAKE SOME GROSS ERROR
> BASED ON WHAT I'VE SAID? Please tell me now.
Have fun and, practice the techniques on the neighbors car! heh
heh
Check out this silly little page and, see if it helps.
http://www.monmouth.com/~panhead/pan10.html
Have fun.Good luck.
Panhead AH™#49 HSB®1219 KoB/CoT®235# O•14--EKIII Paints with me--
--remove my brain to reply--
Painter John
I can't and much to Pan's post but to go back down to the jobber (paint
supplier) and ask for a tech book by the particular paint manufacturer
of your choice. Many of these books are supplied for free or there may
be a small charge. These books will give you step by step on how to use
their system and in what order... like having a shop manual for you
Harley..
A word of advice... Most people you encounter at the jobbers haven't a
clue about how to use the products they sell.... They're selling these
products... not using them. The exception being the sales reps that go
out to the body shops. These people have been trained by the particular
manufacturors on how to use and sell their products.
--
Ride Free,
Painter John
Remove ‘ainter’from my e-mail address to reply
web site <"http://users.leading.net/~painterj">
Panhead
>
> Panhead wrote:
> > Freesoft wrote:
(snip)
> > Have fun and, practice the techniques on the neighbors car! heh
> > heh
> >
> > Check out this silly little page and, see if it helps.
> > http://www.monmouth.com/~panhead/pan10.html
> >
> > Have fun.Good luck.
> I can't and much to Pan's post but to go back down to the jobber (paint
> supplier) and ask for a tech book by the particular paint manufacturer
> of your choice.
DANGIT! I knew I thought of that but, simply forgot to put it
into text!
Painter J is right. The "tech" manuals are free and so readily
available (or should be) at the paint jobber that supplies the
paint to those that either walk in or, to the body shops that
they supply to.
Every "jobber" in my area has free "booklets/flyer type
thingies" that give all the information regarding the brand ,type
and the application principles of the coating you are about to
apply.
Read them!
> A word of advice... Most people you encounter at the jobbers haven't a
> clue about how to use the products they sell.... They're selling these
> products... not using them.
This is true, unfortunately. Beware the "salesman."
(I misunderstood the post...thinking the poster meant he was
getting the products from a SHOP...not a jobber! (silly me)
The exception being the sales reps that go
> out to the body shops. These people have been trained by the particular
> manufacturors on how to use and sell their products.
That is true, basically. Most of the REPS have at least some sort
of hands on experience.
(I used to love the "shows" and, several of the shops I worked
at used to host them.)
( I have such a cool(and hilarious) story about one REP that came
to a shop I worked at.
Remind me to tell you all about it...later!)
I would get chummy with a local body shop personnel that has a
decent reputation and unscrew his mind.
By the by, PainterJohn? have you ever heard of, used, or have
access to that "Ting" stuff?
I still have a 90% full container of it, being as I don't do
cars anymore.
I had to have it UPS'd out from Nevada, from my old
supplier/jobber, just because nobody on the right coast ever
heard of it.
Works great..."less filling!"
Painter John
I could be the one that made the wrong assumption!.. Regardless, he
should be dealing with a jobber..
>
> The exception being the sales reps that go
> > out to the body shops. These people have been trained by the particular
> > manufacturors on how to use and sell their products.
>
> That is true, basically. Most of the REPS have at least some sort
> of hands on experience.
> (I used to love the "shows" and, several of the shops I worked
> at used to host them.)
Jon Kosmoski of House of Kolors has been traveling around the country
and parts of the world hosting seminars... well worth a listen if he
comes to your area.. check with the local jobbers or call HOK for info..
>
> ( I have such a cool(and hilarious) story about one REP that came
> to a shop I worked at.
> Remind me to tell you all about it...later!)
E-mail me... They're good for a chuckle..
>
> I would get chummy with a local body shop personnel that has a
> decent reputation and unscrew his mind.
Good advice.. I was thinking to throw that in but then I thought, if ya
talk to the wrong guy (or girl) you could get someone elses bad habits
thrown at ya.. Ask around and find out who's who out in the field..
>
> By the by, PainterJohn? have you ever heard of, used, or have
> access to that "Ting" stuff?
> I still have a 90% full container of it, being as I don't do
> cars anymore.
> I had to have it UPS'd out from Nevada, from my old
> supplier/jobber, just because nobody on the right coast ever
> heard of it.
> Works great..."less filling!"
Never heard of it but I see painters at the shops I visit (I pinstripe
on the side) use stuff that works like you described... I still use the
old fashioned methods... but I'm not painting cars anymore either...
Just MOTORCYCLES ... (just kept this post kinda sorta on topic.. <g>)
Panhead
>
> Panhead wrote:
> > ( I have such a cool(and hilarious) story about one REP that came
> > to a shop I worked at.
> > Remind me to tell you all about it...later!)
>
> E-mail me... They're good for a chuckle..
nah, I got to tell it here. All must hear this.
I swear it's true and, it is NOT meant to be racist by any
means!
I would have been about 17-18, 1977 or so at the time, and 1 of
2 painters there.
Ok, so one day I'm working at this shop in Carson City, Nevada
(Warren Coach Werks) where we were using and mixing R-M products.
We had an R-M (Rinson, rancid/ Mason? whatever) lacquer and a
"SuperMax" machine.
We had to order those materials and toners from Reno but, we got
the other body shop materials from a local body shop jobber that
supplied our shop and others in our area with things like Lead,
Bondo, sand papers, etc.. That same local jobber was also a
DuPont seller!
So one day, the "Jobber" says to us they say; "Hey! We're gonna
send over a rep from DuPont, so as to explain and talk about our
new product lines and, would you mind giving him he time of day?"
Of course I said; "Sure! Send 'em over!" (I answered the phone)
(After all, R-M kinda sucked in my opinion at the time.)
So here comes this well dressed guy and he was HUGE! He had to
duck coming into the 7 foot door!
But, his manners and personality was ...well, you just had to
like the guy, ya know?
He was very charming and, very intelligent.
So anyway, we're all talking and chit chatting about the
pros-n-cons of this and that and, it came to a part of the
discussion of the thinners and temp of the applications of "his"
said paints and why the color differences would and could be so
different if such and such a procedure or reducer weren't used
properly .
(at this time, I must mention that the Rep was an African
American and, I don't want to start a "racist thingy" as it
certainly isn't!)
This guy was very dark skinned but, his palms
were....considerably lighter! Keep this in mind!
So as he's re-teaching us and describing the application
procedures of his product to us and why the proper thinners and
etc. are needed to get the desired color match, he says... in
TOTAL dead pan; "....Because if you don't..(He then holds up his
hands... fingernail side (Dark) facing us)..the difference is
night and day!"
then he twists his wrists to show his "rather lighter palms!"
And he sat there "twisting" his wrists back and forth for about 4
seconds or so!
Now, he KNEW what he was doing! And, I never busted a gut so
hard in all my life, except for one other time!*
To me? That was funnier then shit!
That sales pitch alone would have made me convert!
I guess you had to have been there!
*So anyway, the other time was when I was at the same shop (go
figure) and I was helping the main Metal man on the frame
machine, getting a car set up and chained, when this Drop dead
gorgeous blond, with huge mammalian protuberances and legs that
were barley covered and went from the ground , all the way up to
heaven, pulled up in a '67 Corvette and slinked her way into the
shop and asked; " I need an estimate!"
The shop went SILENT! Even the air compressor stopped and gave a
"click" and it's last "Hissssss!"
Planes turned off the engines in the air!
This particular female was DEADLY beautiful!
She was the epitome of "all that" and more.
She was simply to much!
I envied the man that could take out her garbage!
Dean ,(the guy I was helping on the frame machine and, from
Alabama I must add! ) broke the silence and said:(as only one
from Alabama could) "Damn! I'd eat the corn outa her shit!"
Problem was, he didn't try to keep that verbal thought of his a
silent secret! It echoed thru-out the shop!
Two seconds later, this perfection of the female form went from
a beautiful creamy white skin to BRILLIANT crimson!...got back
into her 1967 tripower and left rubber tire marks that I am still
sure are there to this day!
Dean? He just stood there going, "What, what?" while the rest of
us are rolling on the floor!
Again, I guess you had to be there.
Motley
Panhead wrote in message <369A78E1...@monmouth.com>...
>Painter John wrote:
>>
>> Panhead wrote:
>
snip the first story, which was good, but...
Thanks, Panhead. I just spewed beer all over my cat. Now she's gonna be
drunk, doing that self cleaning they do...
LMAO...
motley
Panhead
>
> Panhead wrote:
> > Again, I guess you had to be there.
>
> Thanks, Panhead. I just spewed beer all over my cat. Now she's gonna be
> drunk, doing that self cleaning they do...
Sorry about the beer.
Lemma buy ya anudder one!
As far as the puddy tat, get the video camera cranked up!
Freesoft
>> > explain the painting process. My daughter attacked a Texas tree with
>> > our S-10 Blazer, the tree won. We've finished the body work and I
>> > received a DeVILBISS external mix sprayer for Christmas.
>> And don't forget a GREAT respirator and fans to exhaust the
>> fumes and spray!
GOOD CALL, I had forgotten about those... Thanks
>> > The paint shop said that since it's new metal, it shouldn't
>> > require much prep. They did say to remove the black primer since they
>> > are aftermarket fenders.
<snip>
>> Also, I don't know what brand or type of paints you plan on
>> using or, what type of primer or primer surfacer you are going to
>> be using, or even the color. Is it solid or a metallic?
Solid, 1992, maroon, no clear coat
>> Also, the spraying technique you mentioned sounded kinda
>> strange. I would get the edges first (Wheel openings, leading and
>> trailing edges of the hood) first. Then work across the hood and
>> down the side.
Uh, I meant to say that, edges first...
<snip>
>I can't and much to Pan's post but to go back down to the jobber (paint
>supplier) and ask for a tech book by the particular paint manufacturer
>of your choice. Many of these books are supplied for free or there may
>be a small charge. These books will give you step by step on how to use
>their system and in what order... like having a shop manual for you
>Harley..
I NEVER thought of that, thank you and I will ask.
>A word of advice... Most people you encounter at the jobbers haven't a
>clue about how to use the products they sell.... They're selling these
>products... not using them. The exception being the sales reps that go
>out to the body shops. These people have been trained by the particular
>manufacturors on how to use and sell their products.
Local shops won't tell you a thing if they think you stand a chance of
doing it. If they think you're going to blow it and come to them to
clean up your mess, they'll talk half the day, sell you the paint,
etc... Sounds like basic capitalism to me ;-)
Thanks to both
MArk