97 FXDS Clutch adjustment

[danin...@gmail.com]

Shirley, a round for the house please.

Got the carb back on. Seems to be fine.

The clutch had been dragging and it was getting hard to shift into
neutral so prior to the carb rebuild I had adjusted it just like the
manual said. Still dragged, started getting hard to down shift at
all. Stopped by Kickstart and got it adjusted again. Still dragged,
still hard to downshift, just about impossible to get into neutral
unless I shifted it while slow rolling to a stop. Adjusted it myself
again per the manual...Several times, no improvement. Did the carb
and this morning tried the adjustment again...3 times. Just about
kills the engine when in gear and stopped!
Shirley, another for the thirsty patrons of this here establishment!

My only thought is a stretched out clutch cable??? Only reason I
think it might be stretched is it shouldn't be worn out with only
34,000 and if it was worn it would be slippin not grabbin!!!!!!
Any ideas out here?

danl the clutchless Slug #280

[Jinks]

If your cable is stretched you wouldn't have any adjustment
left in the cable adjuster. Is that the case?
As for "per the manual", take that with a little salt.....
The manual usually says to turn the adjuster till you feel it seat,
then back off 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn. Sometimes I find that too much.
All you need is enough to allow the clutch to seat without putting
wear on the push rod or bearing. I usually back off less than a 1/2
turn, lock down the lock nut, & adjust leverage with the cable
adjuster.
If that doesn't do it you might want to pull the clutch plates
& inspect them & the bolts holdin' 'em in. Not a difficult job, & you
don't need to pull the clutch basket.

Jinks ('86 FXRS, '07 FLTR)
#64
Remember, "No good deed goes unpunished"

[Rand McNally]

My only experience is on my own bikes but two thoughts occur- If the cable is adjusted
correctly (~1/16" to 1/8" free play at lever iirc) the fact that it stretched some from
new wouldn't matter, that's what the cable adjuster on the left front downtube is for. I
expect too much freeplay there might do it. I think you have the slippin/grabbin thing
bass ackwards, a too-loose cable won't slip at all.

Second, the manual sez that too much fluid in the primary can make finding neutral difficult.

Thanks for the frosty beverage. Good hunting!

--
Rand McNally BS#263
Off the wall, out the door, down the road. Finally!

[danin...@gmail.com]

On Mon, 07 May 2012 14:21:20 -0400, Jinks <Ji...@thecomputer.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 07 May 2012 13:51:53 -0400, danin...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>Shirley, a round for the house please.
>>
>>Got the carb back on. Seems to be fine.
>>
>>The clutch had been dragging and it was getting hard to shift into
>>neutral so prior to the carb rebuild I had adjusted it just like the
>>manual said. Still dragged, started getting hard to down shift at
>>all. Stopped by Kickstart and got it adjusted again. Still dragged,
>>still hard to downshift, just about impossible to get into neutral
>>unless I shifted it while slow rolling to a stop. Adjusted it myself
>>again per the manual...Several times, no improvement. Did the carb
>>and this morning tried the adjustment again...3 times. Just about
>>kills the engine when in gear and stopped!
>>Shirley, another for the thirsty patrons of this here establishment!
>>
>>My only thought is a stretched out clutch cable??? Only reason I
>>think it might be stretched is it shouldn't be worn out with only
>>34,000 and if it was worn it would be slippin not grabbin!!!!!!
>>Any ideas out here?
>>
>>danl the clutchless Slug #280
>
> If your cable is stretched you wouldn't have any adjustment
>left in the cable adjuster. Is that the case?

Hi Jinks, no I have adjustment left in the cable. That's what is
throwing me. In the past I adjusted the cable once and no big deal,
it worked fine.

> As for "per the manual", take that with a little salt.....
>The manual usually says to turn the adjuster till you feel it seat,
>then back off 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn. Sometimes I find that too much.
>All you need is enough to allow the clutch to seat without putting
>wear on the push rod or bearing. I usually back off less than a 1/2
>turn, lock down the lock nut, & adjust leverage with the cable
>adjuster.

As per the manual was my starting point and from gently seating the
center bolt by hand with allen on a socket extension without the
wrench. I have done a back off of 1/8 turn, 1/4 turn, 1/2 turn, 3/4
turn, 1 turn and no turn with nothing more than more grabbing to less,
but still grabbing enough to drop rpm's by several hundred. I have
also tried cranking the bolt tight and then backing off to start the
procedure over again.

> If that doesn't do it you might want to pull the clutch plates
>& inspect them & the bolts holdin' 'em in. Not a difficult job, & you
>don't need to pull the clutch basket.

I'm hoping to avoid that, but may be forced to see what is going on.
My next step is changing the lubricant although it is not time yet.
Trying to remember if I used a synth or not.

Thanks

danl

[danin...@gmail.com]

I do a lot of things bass akward, just ask my woman! That is what I
can't figure.

>
>Second, the manual sez that too much fluid in the primary can make finding neutral difficult.

Fluid level is right at the anointed level!!

>
>Thanks for the frosty beverage. Good hunting!

Yer welcome and thanks for the input!

danl

[DM]

On 5/7/2012 2:36 PM, danin...@gmail.com wrote:
> My next step is changing the lubricant although it is not time yet.
> Trying to remember if I used a synth or not.

What's it taste like? Shouldn't be as acrid as DOT 4 brake fluid.

Fins
the "gotta contribute something to the conversation" Asshole

[Jinks]

On Mon, 07 May 2012 17:36:44 -0400, danin...@gmail.com wrote:

<snip>

>> If your cable is stretched you wouldn't have any adjustment
>>left in the cable adjuster. Is that the case?
>
>Hi Jinks, no I have adjustment left in the cable. That's what is
>throwing me. In the past I adjusted the cable once and no big deal,
>it worked fine.

<more snip>

>> If that doesn't do it you might want to pull the clutch plates
>>& inspect them & the bolts holdin' 'em in. Not a difficult job, & you
>>don't need to pull the clutch basket.
>
>I'm hoping to avoid that, but may be forced to see what is going on.
>My next step is changing the lubricant although it is not time yet.
>Trying to remember if I used a synth or not.

The oil shouldn't make a difference. Do you have a dial
indicator? If you do, take all the tension out of the cable, adjust
the clutch, tighten the cable to your normal lever position, & measure
the deflection at the clutch when you pull the lever. You need at
least .065 in. of movement. If you're not gettin' that you'll have to
look for where it's lost. If you are gettin' that or more you
probably have clutch pack problems.
Another spot to look for loss of deflection is in the ball &
ramp under the transmission end cover.

[danin...@gmail.com]

On Mon, 07 May 2012 13:51:53 -0400, danin...@gmail.com wrote:

I went out and did the procedure again. Loosened the cable, backed
off the locking nut on the clutch allen head bolt, backed the bolt out
till it was loose. Then I turned the center bolt in till it softly
touched the contact surface. I then turned it in another 1 1/2 turn
to make solid contact. I then backed it out a little less than 1/2
turn! Squeezed off 3 times on the clutch handle. Then I adjusted the
cable until there was just a little 1/8"slack at the handle. Started
it up and it still grabbed. Adjusted the 1/8th out of the cable and a
little more. It didn't pull as much, but still pulled! It's like my
mind can't wrap itself around what is going on, like I have a block!!!
NO, not a blockhead, a mind block!!! There cannot be a setting where
the cable has no end play in it, that would mean the plates are not
being allowed to close completely. Or am I all wrong on that???

HELP!!

danl

[danin...@gmail.com]

Got a sweet fried chicken taste. Not KFC or Churches. More like
honey based glaze...MMMmmmnnn good!!!

Thanks DM, I needed that!

[danin...@gmail.com]

On Mon, 07 May 2012 18:26:17 -0400, Jinks <Ji...@thecomputer.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 07 May 2012 17:36:44 -0400, danin...@gmail.com wrote:
>
><snip>
>>> If your cable is stretched you wouldn't have any adjustment
>>>left in the cable adjuster. Is that the case?
>>
>>Hi Jinks, no I have adjustment left in the cable. That's what is
>>throwing me. In the past I adjusted the cable once and no big deal,
>>it worked fine.
><more snip>
>>> If that doesn't do it you might want to pull the clutch plates
>>>& inspect them & the bolts holdin' 'em in. Not a difficult job, & you
>>>don't need to pull the clutch basket.
>>
>>I'm hoping to avoid that, but may be forced to see what is going on.
>>My next step is changing the lubricant although it is not time yet.
>>Trying to remember if I used a synth or not.
>
> The oil shouldn't make a difference. Do you have a dial
>indicator? If you do, take all the tension out of the cable, adjust
>the clutch, tighten the cable to your normal lever position, & measure
>the deflection at the clutch when you pull the lever. You need at
>least .065 in. of movement. If you're not gettin' that you'll have to
>look for where it's lost. If you are gettin' that or more you
>probably have clutch pack problems.

No dial indicator, but I have a depth ruler with, I think, 84ths
markings on it I used when I was a machinist. I'll have to look for a
small metal straight edge to hold it on. I know it isn't much, but
I'll have to measure it. Always was gonna pick up a gauge, darn!

> Another spot to look for loss of deflection is in the ball &
>ramp under the transmission end cover.

I thought the ball might not be seating properly as there was no
evidence that the clutch is slipping, but what do I know!!

That's for tomorrow as I have no light system set up on the carport
that's good for working. Need to pick up a few florescent lights to
hang out there.

Thanks Jinks

[Snag]

Danl - shorten the cable adjust all the way , then adjust the screw in the
center of the clutch until it's just tight , back it out about a quarter
turn . Then and only then adjust the cable until the lever has about an
eighth of play .
Not sure just how you've been doing it and haven't seen anybody else
suggest this method . This is how I've always done mine , and if the
ball-n-ramp is giving you enough movement and the throwout bearing is not
trashed this should work out .
UNLESS you have a device to lighten the clutch pull in there ... then it
gets very finicky to get full release without slippage . As Jinks said , you
should have about a sixteenth inch of travel from engaged to released . If
you have that much travel and it ain't releasing there's a very good chance
you've got a warped steel in the pack . That can be checked with a piece of
glass and some feeler gauges . Also check the spring plate , they can cause
problems too .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

[danin...@gmail.com]

On Mon, 7 May 2012 20:40:58 -0500, "Snag" <snag...@comcast.net>
wrote:

Thanks Snag, I'll try that method too!!

danl

[ASSHOLE#104 Len]

DanL sed:

>I do a lot of things bass akward, just ask my woman!

Roll her over...

ASSHOLE#104 Len

[Jinks]

On Mon, 07 May 2012 19:07:50 -0400, danin...@gmail.com wrote:


>I went out and did the procedure again. Loosened the cable, backed
>off the locking nut on the clutch allen head bolt, backed the bolt out
>till it was loose. Then I turned the center bolt in till it softly
>touched the contact surface. I then turned it in another 1 1/2 turn
>to make solid contact. I then backed it out a little less than 1/2
>turn! Squeezed off 3 times on the clutch handle. Then I adjusted the
>cable until there was just a little 1/8"slack at the handle. Started
>it up and it still grabbed. Adjusted the 1/8th out of the cable and a
>little more. It didn't pull as much, but still pulled! It's like my
>mind can't wrap itself around what is going on, like I have a block!!!
>NO, not a blockhead, a mind block!!! There cannot be a setting where
>the cable has no end play in it, that would mean the plates are not
>being allowed to close completely. Or am I all wrong on that???
>
>HELP!!
>
>danl

Not tryin' to be critical, but you may have made a mistake.
Look at your shop manual. "Clutch adjustment" is actually two
adjustments, clutch & clutch cable. The cable must be completely
loose when you adjust the clutch.
When you adjust the clutch you should only tighten till you
feel the adjuster & push rod seat lightly. That extra 1 1/2 turn may
have damaged the throw out bearing or ball & ramp. It's a solid rod
between adjuster, bearing, & ball & ramp. I can't picture where you
got a turn & a half of movement.
When you back the adjuster off all you are doing is allowing
enough slack in the clutch to keep the adjuster from spinning the rod
& bearing while you're riding.
After you get the clutch adjusted you adjust the cable to set
the lever throw. You only need enough slack in it to be sure the ball
& ramp aren't partially operated. Any more than that just makes the
lever pull, & engagement, start closer to the grip.
If it's been draggin' much Snag may be right & you could have
a warped steel.

[danin...@gmail.com]

On Tue, 08 May 2012 08:01:30 -0400, Jinks <Ji...@thecomputer.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 07 May 2012 19:07:50 -0400, danin...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>>I went out and did the procedure again. Loosened the cable, backed
>>off the locking nut on the clutch allen head bolt, backed the bolt out
>>till it was loose. Then I turned the center bolt in till it softly
>>touched the contact surface. I then turned it in another 1 1/2 turn
>>to make solid contact. I then backed it out a little less than 1/2
>>turn! Squeezed off 3 times on the clutch handle. Then I adjusted the
>>cable until there was just a little 1/8"slack at the handle. Started
>>it up and it still grabbed. Adjusted the 1/8th out of the cable and a
>>little more. It didn't pull as much, but still pulled! It's like my
>>mind can't wrap itself around what is going on, like I have a block!!!
>>NO, not a blockhead, a mind block!!! There cannot be a setting where
>>the cable has no end play in it, that would mean the plates are not
>>being allowed to close completely. Or am I all wrong on that???
>>
>>HELP!!
>>
>>danl
>
> Not tryin' to be critical, but you may have made a mistake.
>Look at your shop manual. "Clutch adjustment" is actually two
>adjustments, clutch & clutch cable. The cable must be completely
>loose when you adjust the clutch.

Critical no, informative yes! Yup, it was completely loose.

> When you adjust the clutch you should only tighten till you
>feel the adjuster & push rod seat lightly. That extra 1 1/2 turn may
>have damaged the throw out bearing or ball & ramp. It's a solid rod
>between adjuster, bearing, & ball & ramp. I can't picture where you
>got a turn & a half of movement.

If it was dragging when I started it was something else.

> When you back the adjuster off all you are doing is allowing
>enough slack in the clutch to keep the adjuster from spinning the rod
>& bearing while you're riding.
> After you get the clutch adjusted you adjust the cable to set
>the lever throw. You only need enough slack in it to be sure the ball
>& ramp aren't partially operated. Any more than that just makes the
>lever pull, & engagement, start closer to the grip.

Yup, I know that part and that is how I adjusted the cable and the
clutch that way.

> If it's been draggin' much Snag may be right & you could have
>a warped steel.

That's what I am thinkin. I have a Dr app this morning and will do it
again and then pull the clutch if it does not cure it!

[danin...@gmail.com]

On Tue, 08 May 2012 06:23:18 -0400, ASSHOLE#104 Len <AH...@att.net>
wrote:

>DanL sed:
>>I do a lot of things bass akward, just ask my woman!
>
>Roll her over...

In the clover, roll her over and do it again!

danl the WD40 optional Slug #280

[Rand McNally]

On 5/8/2012 8:31 AM, danin...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I went out and did the procedure again.

<nips>

Pause, reflect, and have another round, if you think that will help.

Just a thought- Be sure that when you tighten the locknut you aren't unadjusting the
adjuster. I customized (bent) a closed end wrench for the locknut so I can hold the
adjuster in place with an allen wrench when securing the locknut.

--
Rand McNally BS#263
Approaching the "get a bigger hammer" phase...

[danin...@gmail.com]

On Tue, 08 May 2012 09:31:35 -0400, Rand McNally
<lostan...@munged.org> wrote:

>On 5/8/2012 8:31 AM, danin...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> I went out and did the procedure again.
>
><nips>
>
>Pause, reflect, and have another round, if you think that will help.
>
>Just a thought- Be sure that when you tighten the locknut you aren't unadjusting the
>adjuster. I customized (bent) a closed end wrench for the locknut so I can hold the
>adjuster in place with an allen wrench when securing the locknut.

Thanks, I'm using a wrench to keep that from happening.

[Invisible68]

<danin...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:582gq7hcla6sjt9q8...@4ax.com...

things I would check.... you loosed the clutch cable... make sure when you
go to tighten them that both ends are seated right at the transmission cover
and at the clutch handle... with the cable completely loose it might have
come unseated. If that is correct. I would pull the cover off the other
side of the transmission (clutch release cover) and check to see if the ball
and ramp mechinism is working. put pressure (with hand) on the outer ramp
and squeese the clutch lever( or move the cable to rotate the inner ramp)
and the as the inner ramp rotates (the one with the cable attached to it),
the out ramp should move out. If it does not, one of more of the balls got
out of position. Take the retaining ring off and seat the 3 balls correctly
and put back together and verify the ramp pushes out when you move the ramp.

Invisible68

[DM]

On 5/7/2012 4:12 PM, danin...@gmail.com wrote:
>> What's it taste like? Shouldn't be as acrid as DOT 4 brake fluid.
>> >
>> >Fins
>> >the "gotta contribute something to the conversation" Asshole
> Got a sweet fried chicken taste. Not KFC or Churches. More like
> honey based glaze...MMMmmmnnn good!!!
>
> Thanks DM, I needed that!

After all this, I figured out I'm addicted to brake fluid.

It's ok though, I can stop any time.

Fins