2010 SuperTrapp SE Slip-On Mufflers
c
Drinks *still* on me, my baby is still brand-spankin'-new and papa is
proud.
I drilled through the catalytic converter on my 2010 FLHRC. I have a
blog, btw, and if you can put up with lay explanations of the few
things i understand, go ahead and check it out: http://www.roadkingclassic.wordpress.com
But anyway...with the cat out, there's not much of an improvement in
sound. There's more air - i can feel it - but the quality of the
sound is unchanged. I want that juicy sound - you knwo what I'm
talking about.
I took the baffles out. They're straight shots, different from the 09
(95-09, really) versions with chambers. They're simliar to the kerker
K3, according to SuperTrapp. Straight shots. Unrestrictive. And I
don't need more noise. I need better sound. Baffles out is better
sound but too much noise.
Mikuni baffles are straight shots too, but only take up 1/2 the
muffler's space. Rather than spending $220 on the pair and digging
deeper into this hole, can I just saw the baffles to 3/4 the size?
Then work my way down? If I have to replace them anyway ....
How can I get that sound? Preferably without spending a shit ton of
cash?
What about just drilling holes in the tamper-proof welded cartridge
style baffles?
What about just smacking my head against the wall, like i've been
doing?
-c
Burdel
news:eaec121f-d08f-4c3d...@h34g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
> Hey guys,
>
> Drinks *still* on me, my baby is still brand-spankin'-new and papa is
> proud.
>
>
> How can I get that sound? Preferably without spending a shit ton of
> cash?
>
> What about just drilling holes in the tamper-proof welded cartridge
> style baffles?
>
> What about just smacking my head against the wall, like i've been
> doing?
>
> -c
The bar is down the street...this is the shit house.
For slip-ons, here is a good one ,cheep.
http://www.wildpigpipes.com/Store1.html
--
Why Drive... When You Can Ride!!!
99 FLHR Traveler
02 FXSTD Ruby
07 FLHRSE3 Ruby II
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you
know for sure that just ain't so."
http://picasaweb.google.com/rkdresser
Burdel
c
> and light the fucking thing on fire.
>
> Since you seem determined to fuck a nice bike all up, why do it a little bit at
> a time.........
>
> --
> Steve Irving BS#237 - Goat Head
i appreciate the reply, but you see if i go and do that, then
pissheads like you can't get jealous of my gorgeous bike that i was
fortunate enough to be able to afford after years and years of riding
a dog
all i asked for was advice/help changing the sound ... you care to
explain how switching, replacing, or modifying baffles is fucking up a
nice bike?
this isn't even a loud pipes thread, because it's loud enough, it just
sounds like a helicopter rather than a bike
-c
p.s. gas is expensive
c
> No...you started a thread about drilling out the catalytic converter,
> drilling/cutting the baffles.......
>
> Only a fucking moron would do THAT sort of thing......
baffles aside (that's the heart of this thread),
drilling the cat is a decision i stand behind - there's ample evidence
that the buildup of heat forward of the header is excessive
the procedure nets cooler temps for the engine and a more comfortable
right foot/ankle for the rider (unless you normally have very heavy
boots while riding)
it was also supposed to improve the sound, but i haven't found that to
be the case ... it's the same, though there is more of a breeze coming
out the backside
Steve Paul
> all i asked for was advice/help changing the sound ... you care to
> explain how switching, replacing, or modifying baffles is fucking up a
> nice bike?
You're doing shit in haste, and you don't know how it's going to work out. I
think that qualifies.
>
> this isn't even a loud pipes thread, because it's loud enough, it just
> sounds like a helicopter rather than a bike
>
Ride with other TC owners, listen to their machines, and ask them
specifically what they did to get the sound that _you_ like. In the
meantime, as you were already advised here a while ago, ride it stock until
you _know_ what you're doing.
--
Steve Paul
EKIII, BS284
'93 FXRS-C "Mule"
No salt, No plans
Bob Mann
3f43d9...@j24g2000vbl.googlegroups.com:
> the procedure nets cooler temps for the engine and a more comfortable
> right foot/ankle for the rider (unless you normally have very heavy
> boots while riding)
>
Actually, it's going to have less back pressure, run leaner and therefore
hotter for the engine.
--
Bob Mann
Cap'n, ah need moor pow'r.
Bob Mann
news:jqmdnUWXZL78cmfX...@giganews.com:
> Ride with other TC owners, listen to their machines, and ask them
> specifically what they did to get the sound that _you_ like. In the
> meantime, as you were already advised here a while ago, ride it stock
> until you _know_ what you're doing.
>
Too late for that, he already has the 103" stage 2 and apparently got the
Screaming Eagle mufflers.
He should have checked the sound of those mufflers because they are
fairly tame sounding. Not bad and I'd be relative happy with them but
tame none the less. They are also a little high pitched considering what
they look like. We stuck a pair on a floor model Ultra Limited to see
what they were like.
To c.....
Hacking up those mufflers isn't the way to go.
The catalytic converter OTOH seems okay for surgery to me but the
download isn't going to cut it any more.
This is stuff that should have been thought out more thouroughly
beforehand since it's going to take more $$$ now on top of the $$ already
spent.
My recommendation for deeper sounding mufflers that aren't (much) louder
than the SEs are either Bub7s or Kuryakyn Crushers.
For deep notes you need a round exhaust. Most are considerably louder
such as the venerable Rineharts or the Klock Werks and Vance and Hince
Starightshots.
Go to the dealer and see what they have around as far as bikes with
different mufflers. I'm sure they'd be willing to fire one up so you
could spend more money.
Now you *will* need the SE Super Tuner as well since the only thing
making the bike run with the download was the catalytic converter and the
H-D mufflers *in stock shape*.
Bob Mann
> Yo Bob......
>
> How did his "modification" effect his warranty????
>
> <snerk>
>
If it causes problems, it could be unpleasant.
TL Mitchell
> Actually, it's going to have less back pressure, run leaner and therefore
> hotter for the engine.
How much do the dealers get skooled on the Adaptive Learning features of the
'07+ ECMs?
112
c
> I personally feel that given the time/effort/funds put into engineering
> machinery, no matter if it's a Harley or whatever else......it is fucking insane
> for some dumbshit to think it's the best thing to do to start hacking the thing
> into a piece of shit without any real understanding of what he's up to.......and
> then after having done so, comes looking for advice on how to achieve his
> objective??????
>
> FAWK!!!!!!!
>
> I don't have this problem with well thought out performance mods done with at
> least a small shred of understanding of the underlying engineering......
>
i followed in the line of 09 CVO owners who did the same
you and others have called it hasty or unplanned or thoughtless, but
if anything i'm just being unoriginal
the problem is the quality of the sound, and it's not my bike until it
feels like my bike and sounding right is part of that -- i guess the
real mistake i made was coming here to ask since the only thing that's
ringing true is finding someone else who has what i want and figuring
out how to get there
i will now censor myself from asking questions where the answer is so
subjective
carry on!
c
> "Steve Paul" <smarshallp...@gmail.com> wrote innews:jqmdnUWXZL78cmfX...@giganews.com:
>
> > Ride with other TC owners, listen to their machines, and ask them
> > specifically what they did to get the sound that _you_ like. In the
> > meantime, as you were already advised here a while ago, ride it stock
> > until you _know_ what you're doing.
>
> Too late for that, he already has the 103" stage 2 and apparently got the
> Screaming Eagle mufflers.
> He should have checked the sound of those mufflers because they are
> fairly tame sounding. Not bad and I'd be relative happy with them but
> tame none the less. They are also a little high pitched considering what
> they look like. We stuck a pair on a floor model Ultra Limited to see
> what they were like.
>
the dealer said supertrapp's sounded good ... the internet said they
sounded good ... i've seen people with supertrapps and they were
good ... something about the 2010's or about these particular
supertrapp's ("SE" - a nod to when they were screamin eagle II, but
now the "SE" is "super elite" or some BS) just isn't working
i trusted the dealer (point and laugh, boys and girls!), but in my own
defense it doesn't make sense that they'd sell me a $400 set of pipes
that were shitty when there are 2 other kinds of $400 pipes that
aren't shitty ... that'd be a whole other level of ignorance/
malice ... if anything i doubt they understood the differences in 2010
slipons, and i think it's innocent
whether they'll help me out now or tell me to bend over, heh, i'm not
going to bother hoping for the former
> To c.....
>
> Hacking up those mufflers isn't the way to go.
> The catalytic converter OTOH seems okay for surgery to me but the
> download isn't going to cut it any more.
>
> This is stuff that should have been thought out more thouroughly
> beforehand since it's going to take more $$$ now on top of the $$ already
> spent.
>
i'm never going to say i knew everything, but i knew a lot and the
amount of info available 2 months ago on 2010 slip-ons was zilch ...
at best, we could make inferences from the 09 years
if the 2010's from other brands perform as poorly on other 2010 bikes,
i may provide ketchup to those gentlemen willing to eat their hats
> For deep notes you need a round exhaust. Most are considerably louder
> such as the venerable Rineharts or the Klock Werks and Vance and Hince
> Starightshots.
sounds like science ... round hole = fat sound ... thank you, i will
be sure that my final exhaust solution employs a round outlet rather
than oval or slit or whatever other shapes there are
& i still plan on picking up a SEST/PCV/mastertune, though i thank you
again for the reminder
(as a practical matter, there's no difference in the feel post-cat-
drilling, there's just a lot less heat on my right foot when i wear
sneakers or shoes riding)
-c
DaveN
>
> But then you still took a new bike into your garage at home and butchered
> it up with a hole saw and a drill........methods that I doubt have ever
> been recommended by anyone with half a brain, and Shirley ridiculed by
> most folks here........
>
> But, what the hell....it's your bike. Do what ya wish with it, but
> puhleeze refrain from coming back here at a later date whining about what
> a piece of shit Harley builds.......I've seen/heard it too often.
>
He's already blaming the dealer for selling shitty pipes. "i trusted the
dealer... waaaaah!"
He's managing to fuck up a perfectly good bike, but it's everybody else's
fault. He probably wants to get a knuck sound out of a twin cam.
DaveN
don (Calgary)
<smalltalk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>How can I get that sound? Preferably without spending a shit ton of
>cash?
>
>What about just drilling holes in the tamper-proof welded cartridge
>style baffles?
>
>What about just smacking my head against the wall, like i've been
>doing?
I'd suggest you put away the drills and saws and stick with banging
your head against a wall for a while.
You seem like a decent guy who in my opinion appears to have your
priorities a little mixed up. You're hacking and chopping at a finely
tuned machine before it is even broken in. Personally I'd be more
concerned about doing permanent damage to the engine with all the
messing around you are doing with the pipes than with achieving the
perfect sound.
Geez dude you only have 250 miles on that machine!
OK so I have never owned a brand new bike, nor have I ever broken one
in, but I think the current wisdom is to ride the damn thing, while
varying the rpms long enough and far enough to let all the moving
parts of the engine settle in. I don't think the five minute
stationary stops and starts, so you can listen to what it sounds like,
are doing anything good to that new engine. Neither would riding up to
the corner and back.
Adding to the destruction hit list changing the air flow of the
exhaust without properly adjusting the tuning. Christ knows how lean
the damn thing is running right now.
Personally I'd throw the stock pipes back on, have the bike retuned
immediately and then ride the damn thing until it is broken in and
beyond.
It's been said several times, get out and meet other HD owners and
listen to their bikes and what they have done to get that sound. As
has also been mentioned several times sound is a combination of
several engine adjustments or mods.
You know I had S&S 510's and a PCIII installed in my RK last year and
without making a change to the mufflers I had, in my opinion, a better
and deeper sounding bike. For the record it was tuned on a dyno by one
of the best tuners in my neighbourhood.
Slow down c, take a deep breath and go back to square one.
c
> If you want to change the sound of your bike, you've got to figure out which
> combination(s) of pipes, mufflers, intake systems, and EFI tuners/mods would do
> what you desire without borking up the bike's performance, voiding your
> warranty, etc..
>
i'm sure you weathered folks are much more used to this ping pong than
i am, but what i'm trying to say is i *have* tried figuring that
formula out ... i have heard the sound i want (yes, in a twin cam),
and it seemed like a very reasonable proposition that the mods i went
for would work out well
they have, they just don't sound right, though by all reason and
simple expectation, they should
let me put it another way: explain how a 103" w/ 255 cams and
chamberless, straight-baffle mufflers sounds like a toaster instead of
a motorcycle?
that's all this is - call me stupid, call me hasty, call me
uniformed ... the one i think applies is mis-prioritized, as it tends
to at least give me a little credit for 80% of my information coming
off the internet (what else would you expect? not sure why i keep with
it~)
i don't have the tuner yet, but everything else i've bought or done
was something that came much more recommended than dissuaded
i know i fit the mold of however many 'retard' types you've seen
before, but maybe it's more complicated than that
maybe not, sure, but i'm asking you to consider that
> Lots of ways to do that besides taking a hole saw and a drill to a new bike and
> cutting it to pieces without any real thought or knowledge of what you're doing,
> what the effects will be, etc.
>
> The stuff you posted on your blog about the removal of the cat reminded me of an
> abortion, right down to the use of a fucking coat hanger to scrape the remnants
> of the cat from the pipe..........
>
kind of uncertain what to say about that ... i agree with you, and in
fact i think my description of deciding that a straightened coat
hanger was the best way to get rid of the unwanted was a pretty solid
reference to an abortion, though for the life of me i can't tell you
why my mind went there
enter the shrinks, i suppose
again, all i've done is poke through the catalytic converter,
something many others have done before me and something that's not
caused any ill effects
>
>
> > i will now censor myself from asking questions where the answer is so
> > subjective
>
> Subjective????
>
my use of the word 'subjective' was in regard to an "answer" about the
question of how to get the sound i want --- unless your reply below
was meant to tell me what i think is a good sound, i will pass over it
...though not disrespectfully so, because it was a previous mention
YOU made of your expertise that caused me to listen to your advice in
other posts
> Sorry, I only spent over 30 years in the automotive industry as a tech, and then
> a manager in a fleet of over 2000 vehicles. My opinions on this sort of stuff
> grows out of a career of technical professionalism.
>
> But, what the hell....it's your bike. Do what ya wish with it, but puhleeze
> refrain from coming back here at a later date whining about what a piece of shit
> Harley builds.......I've seen/heard it too often.
would you mind explaining how drilling the cat is 'butchering' the
bike?
it's been said by yourself and others here several times, all as
garnish on "what an idiot" i am posts ... i am an idiot, so can
explain it?
by 'idiot' i mean to say i have no engineering knowledge, my service
manual is silent on the point, and i belong to a crowd of like-minded,
like-abled internet folks who cannot explain it either
c
> He's already blaming the dealer for selling shitty pipes. "i trusted the
> dealer... waaaaah!"
>
> He's managing to fuck up a perfectly good bike, but it's everybody else's
> fault. He probably wants to get a knuck sound out of a twin cam.
>
> DaveN
hi dave,
i didn't blame the dealer, i said they were most likely just ignorant
of the differences in performance between the 2010 and 2009-previous
parts
i also said lots of people across the country, including manufacturers
and indy shops and folks a lot like yourself really don't have *all*
the info such that no one was able to tell me what i would be
experiencing at this point
103" w/ SE255's and 2010 supertrapp SE's ... bike sounds like a
helicopter ... did you see that one coming?
it's not the dealer's fault, it's not the internet's fault, it's
really not anyone's fault ... there's a lot going on here and i defy
you to prove it's this one thing or that one thing
the original post is a question about what kind of fulcrum the baffles
are in the system
thanks for reading
c
> Probably wants the sound he heard on one of the bikes when he was watching "Wild
> Hogs".........
>
> --
> Steve Irving BS#237 - Goat Head
i never saw that, but if you want to throw around insults then i'll
just say an ultra is only conceivably nicer than a road king classic
if you're and old fart =P
nobody #1
Those mufflers you're using sound like shit. I had a similar set. A
decent sounding set of mufflers are the V&H Ovals and I think they sell
a front pipe set for the new bikes. The S&S SPO's sound good but are
expensive and fugly too. Someone replied suggesting Wild Pigs. They're
cheap and they sound good but are loud. There is a whole slew of other
mufflers out there but these are pretty much the one's I have experience
with.
I didn't read your blog except the part where you tell the EPA to fuck
themselves. Just so you know, that's not too smart. Sort of like
sticking your hand in an Alligator's mouth and daring it to bite you.
Afaicr it's a $10K fine for removing a converter from a car. I would
assume that stands true for a bike also. I wouldn't advertise it either
way.
The exhaust on my '09 looks just like yours and it stinks like it has
a converter in it too. It'll steam like hell on cold mornings, I'm gonna
take a look and see if it has one in that pipe like yours. I'm
definitely not going to remove it but I am curious as hell now.
I have a short video of my old bike with Wild Pigs on it if you want to
here what they sound like. I'll post it across the street.
nobody #1
kridder
> The exhaust on my '09 looks just like yours and it stinks like it has a
> converter in it too. It'll steam like hell on cold mornings, I'm gonna
> take a look and see if it has one in that pipe like yours. I'm definitely
> not going to remove it but I am curious as hell now.
>
> nobody #1
The only '09 baggers that had the cat in the headpipe collector were the
California bikes and the CVOs. The '09 49-state non-CVO bikes had no cat in
the headers. For 2010, *all* baggers have the cat in the headpipe collector
(and the 02 sensor bungs are there now, too).
If you don't want the cat, you gotta cut that collector in half to get the
guts out completely and then weld it back together. 'Course, you could
always look for a set of 49-state '09 headers or go aftermarket like V&H
Power Duals.
I'm just sayin'.
kridder
nobody #1
Oooohh I'm not removin' anything. I was thinkin' it could have a cat
because of the awful smellin' exhaust which has never smelled like
conventional exhaust. When it's super cold out it'll cloud out my front
yard with steam after it runs for a about thirty seconds. What 0-2
sensor bungs? After cat?
nobody #1
c
> c wrote:
>
> > would you mind explaining how drilling the cat is 'butchering' the
> > bike?
>
>
> The bike was engineered to flow a certain amount of air through it, with the cat
> in the system. The cat is now gone, so that flow, with it's back pressures is
> now gone.
>
i understand what you're saying, but the many 09 CVO guys agree that
the cat in the header was *not* designed for; it was thrown in to meet
EPA req's but the bike was designed w/o and it's better w/o
> You've voided the warranty on the bike. Any problems you have with the bike from
> now on that a dealer CAN blame on your hack job.....will allow them to decline
> to perform any warranty repairs at all........
>
i can appreciate this but i'd like to leave legal considerations out
of the discussion
> You've also broken Federal, and possibly state laws for tampering with an
> emissions control device. In many states you will be unable to pass safety
> and/or emissions inspections which will cause you to be unable to
> register/license the bike.
>
leaving legal issues aside, for the practical concerns -- if there is
any problem passing inspection next year, i will fork over the three
or four bills for a new header pipe and complete the SuperTrapp
system ... or i'll double it if i have no fix for my present situation
and i'll buy a whole new system (and ebay my current, untouched '10
SuperTrapp slipons)
> AND.......you've exhibited dorkapotomus behavior by taking power tools to a new
> machine and destroying a component that's an integral part of the fuel
> management system.
>
while my admittedly-spotty internet research suggests the cat isn't
crucial to the system, but is instead a parasite, i imagine if you've
seen the videos i've posted then you are being generous in fact,
calling me a dorkapotomus rather than an inept yuppie rub or whatever
you really think i am
> Would you mind explaining to me what the O2 sensor on the bike does now that the
> readings in the exhaust are WAY out of range because the cat is gone, and with
> readings out of range how does the ECM compensate the EFI????
>
why no, of course i can't ^_^
> I know the newer bikes have a closed loop system, and can compensate to some
> degree for changes in the system (much like a car), but for readings that are
> out of range????
>
not to make it worse, but wouldn't this be the #1 thing to look for in
a tuner?
in other words, which is more adaptive? PCV or SEST or TTS?
> Has the diagnostic system set a code yet, and when the check engine light comes
> on because of this (won't say it will, but it may)......what dealer do ya think
> will fix it for ya since ya took a hole saw and a clothes hanger to the
> catalytic converter???
>
no codes thrown yet, bike runs nearly identically (happily my foot is
cooler, and sadly the timbre and pitch of the engine is unchanged)
my dealer has you all beat on thinking i'm king of dunces - i don't
imagine they would check the header, and from what i've gathered since
the day i've picked up my bike i'm pretty sure they're going to lock
me out in the cold no matter what comes up =/
and don't worry, i've already promised not to "whine" here if anything
goes wrong ... in fact i don't think i'll initiate any posts for a
while, how's that?
> Jeeze, I recently saw a Road King set a trouble code when a Garmin GPS system on
> the bike crapped out........<sfsf>
>
not that i need to disclaimer my lack of expertise in THIS thread,
but .... my lack of expertise notwithstanding, how the hell could that
happen? aren't the GPS units just sitting in mounts on the bars or
whatever? was it drawing power from the battery? maybe it shorted? i
doubt any of those units are waterproof
or are you trying to tease me?
i must now close this post as the painters were in today and they put
a giant, capital "G" on the ceiling and i must investigate it
Bob Mann
news:NaudnfLwlM4lu2bX...@earthlink.com:
Maybe the techs but I've heard nothing.
It's true, I'm going by my experiences with the '09s.
I keep forgetting they changed the system.
OTOH, how much modoficationh is too much?
Seems removing the cat could be too much.
Bob Mann
> Would you mind explaining to me what the O2 sensor on the bike does
> now that the readings in the exhaust are WAY out of range because the
> cat is gone, and with readings out of range how does the ECM
> compensate the EFI????
>
Tyhe O2 sensors are in front of the cat so they may or may not be affected.
Trouble is that the only way to find out now is to dyno it.
I would have changed the entire system before butchering the cat.
Bub and Rinehart are both making 2010 systems for the tourers anhd I expect
V&H are too.
Bob Mann
000d4e...@e34g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:
> the dealer said supertrapp's sounded good ... the internet said they
> sounded good ... i've seen people with supertrapps and they were
> good ... something about the 2010's or about these particular
> supertrapp's ("SE" - a nod to when they were screamin eagle II, but
> now the "SE" is "super elite" or some BS) just isn't working
They're okay and a big omprovement on stock and previous SE pipes.
>
> i trusted the dealer (point and laugh, boys and girls!), but in my own
> defense it doesn't make sense that they'd sell me a $400 set of pipes
> that were shitty when there are 2 other kinds of $400 pipes that
> aren't shitty ... that'd be a whole other level of ignorance/
> malice ... if anything i doubt they understood the differences in 2010
> slipons, and i think it's innocent
The SE pipes are less and the other pipes are more.
We got a set of those in a tried them out.
We've done the same with many other mufflers and systems.
>
> whether they'll help me out now or tell me to bend over, heh, i'm not
> going to bother hoping for the former
>
They'll help you as long as you're spending $$$.
Bob Mann
news:AIydnaUaPOZOwmbX...@giganews.com:
>
>
> Oooohh I'm not removin' anything. I was thinkin' it could have a cat
> because of the awful smellin' exhaust which has never smelled like
> conventional exhaust. When it's super cold out it'll cloud out my
> front yard with steam after it runs for a about thirty seconds. What
> 0-2 sensor bungs? After cat?
>
>
> nobody #1
>
The new O2 sensor bungs are right in front of the combined pipe, one in
each header.
You can't retrofit a 2009 head pipe because of those bungs.
Several companies are now making pipes with dual bungs to fit 09s and 10s.
Means we get stuck with more obsolete pipes too.
nobody #1
> nobody #1 <rndd...@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:AIydnaUaPOZOwmbX...@giganews.com:
>
>>
>> Oooohh I'm not removin' anything. I was thinkin' it could have a cat
>> because of the awful smellin' exhaust which has never smelled like
>> conventional exhaust. When it's super cold out it'll cloud out my
>> front yard with steam after it runs for a about thirty seconds. What
>> 0-2 sensor bungs? After cat?
>>
>>
>> nobody #1
>>
>
> The new O2 sensor bungs are right in front of the combined pipe, one in
> each header.
thanks for the info.
> You can't retrofit a 2009 head pipe because of those bungs.
> Several companies are now making pipes with dual bungs to fit 09s and 10s.
> Means we get stuck with more obsolete pipes too.
>
Not me, I'm not doin' shit to this bike except ride it. I'm throwin'
money away on building drag/street cars and trucks. I can let them sit
and don't give a shit. I ain't fuckin' with my bike it runs fine just
like it is. STOCK!
nobody #1
Steve Paul
> the dealer said supertrapp's sounded good ... the internet said they
> sounded good ... i've seen people with supertrapps and they were
> good ... something about the 2010's or about these particular
> supertrapp's ("SE" - a nod to when they were screamin eagle II, but
> now the "SE" is "super elite" or some BS) just isn't working
When I was looking at exhaust systems for my '93 Evo FXRS (bought used) a
coupla years ago, I heard that the Super Trapps (2 into 1) were the best
performance-wise, but that they sounded "tinny". They're also expensive new,
and hard to find used in decent condition for much cheaper. And I'm all
about frugality. So they were out.
Bike came with Cycle Shack M-pipes, which are rated very good for
performance, but they were so damn loud I couldn't have a conversation next
to the bike at idle. They sounded awesome, scary, and fast at any RPM. Bike
also has a bolt-in cam (EV-27), SE ignition, and S&S Super-E Shorty. Should
be making near 65 horse. Not bad for a 80" w/bolt-ons. The FXR weighs in
around 585 lbs. Add my fat ass and the total load on the motor is about 850
lbs., or about 13 lbs/hp. Not a bad ratio for a sport cruiser/tourer.
In all honesty, I fucked around with the FXR for months and months, changing
seats, suspension heights, and handlebars to make it "look cool". Then I
eventually settled down, and put it back as close to stock as I could make
it. It's now a _much_ better bike than anything I could make out of it by
changing shit. The MoCo knew what they were doing, and didn't need me to
fuck it up. In the end, I only changed out the handle bars, dropped the
front end an inch to accomodate my inseam, added a fairing and a crashbar
with chaps. I can now ride all day without getting too worn out.
Since I was looking to quiet down my bike, not increase performance, I
eventually steered clear of all the bolt on performance exhausts, and ebay'd
a stock head-pipe w/crossover (took a couple of years for the timing and the
bid-out to work in my favor). Once I had the head-pipe, I also found a set
of NIB tapered mufflers by Khrome Werks on ebay for 75 bucks, and slipped
them on. Bike sounds fucking awesome when it fires up, has that big block
sound at 1/2 to full throttle between 1500 and 2500 RPM, but isn't
overwhelmingly loud. Above 2500 the higher frequency pulses mellow out the
system and it runs reasonably quiet. Below 2500, with only mild throttle
twist, it doesn't draw the attention of folks on the street, including cops,
even with the big throat sound.
You would probably love the way it sounds. Me? I don't give a fuck really. I
ride my bike every day to work and back (40 miles around, and it's in the
low 40's to upper 30's here most days now), and then for a few to several
hundred miles of distance whenever I can when it's above 55 degrees or so
(not much of that these days).
That's why I own it.
When you ride a lot, you realize that loud pipes suck, and the tone is
meaningless when it's lost between the ear plugs and your ear drums, inside
your helmet. A cool sounding bike is merely for the benefit of your ego, not
ride comfort, or that sense of independence and self reliance that makes
motorcycling truly enjoyable.
So, stop fucking with your exhaust and let's ride right on past the next 27
towns, and 27 bars we see, until we're so damn tired it's motel time. We can
drink from the mini-bar until we pass out from exhaustion, and then do it
all over again the following day.
I've learned that that's what this here virtual bar is all about. (And I've
only been to one IRL!!)
Shirley! A round for them's that's in agreement.
-Steve P.
(in Mass)
Greasy Rider
> How can I get that sound?
I've been hearing metric riders say almost the same thing for years.
Greasy
Bob Mann
>
> I would have ridden the bike a while, hung around with other riders,
> listened to their bikes, and then when I found something I liked I'd
> hit the guy who owned the bike up with questions about what he had and
> what he'd done.
>
> Not like most bike guys are shy about telling you about what they've
> done to their bikes.......<sfsf>
It's true. Let a guy know you like what he's done and you'll have trouble
getting away from him.
>
> Of course in my case......
>
>
> When I traded it in on my Ultra, figured I'd do the same thing,
> ride/listen, I'm still doing that after 5 years. I found that I didn't
> care that the exhaust was quiet. Loud or semi-loud pipes didn't
> increase my happy when I was riding it. Also found that I REALLY like
> listening to music and/or talk radio while I ride, seems like the
> music always seems to fit the ride......
I like that too. My pipes can be loud but I don't think they're
obnoxious.
Maybe people who ride with me might have other ideas though.
I chose mine based on the sound from a bike from several months earlier.
I had been going to use Rineharts but someone else took the last set we
had in stock so I thought about it before ordering more in and picked the
Crushers.
They have a deep rumbly sound without the hollow crackle. They are also
fairly quiet when cruising so I can hear the stereo.
>
> On the PBR Tour, seemed like every time we pulled out of a parking
> lot, or onto a highway the radio would start playing the Beatle's
> "Magical Mystery Tour", which I thought was just about right <sfsf>.
>
It's coming to take you away, take you away.
Bob Mann
> Not me, I'm not doin' shit to this bike except ride it. I'm throwin'
> money away on building drag/street cars and trucks. I can let them sit
> and don't give a shit. I ain't fuckin' with my bike it runs fine just
> like it is. STOCK!
>
That was a generic "you".
Don't blame you.
Mods are a pain in the ass most of the time.
I was just wondering how much the new system is able to adjust because
doing too much would make it EPA non-compliant.
c
> c wrote:
> > On Nov 11, 8:02 pm, Steve Irving <sd...@NOSPAMq.com> wrote:
> >> c wrote:
>
> >>> would you mind explaining how drilling the cat is 'butchering' the
> >>> bike?
> >> Well......
>
> >> The bike was engineered to flow a certain amount of air through it, with the cat
> >> in the system. The cat is now gone, so that flow, with it's back pressures is
> >> now gone.
>
> > i understand what you're saying, but the many 09 CVO guys agree that
> > the cat in the header was *not* designed for; it was thrown in to meet
> > EPA req's but the bike was designed w/o and it's better w/o
>
> your '09 CVO guy a dentist who's been riding for a year and wears creased chaps???
>
fair point: the hivemind, despite its size, might not have any
qualification to evaluate the post-cat-drilling performance
> I'd Shirley bet the cat wasn't just "thrown in" the bike at the last moment.
> Engineering and testing was done well ahead of time.
>
clearly my description was oversimplistic to the point of inaccuracy,
but,
what do you think is really going on?
you think the moco let their bikes be neutered by the EPA, or do you
think they designed around the upcoming EPA req's and made a bike that
sounds/performs like it should, regardless of the EPA req's? or do you
think it's something else?
i don't know for sure, but i DO know they want to sell you more parts,
i know they don't get it right the first time, and i know they
typically sell to older men
i imagine, as a practical matter, it's most likely they saw what the
negative effects were on adding the cat to their bikes, saw it
wouldn't hurt very much, and let it ride
that sounds much more likely than them going out of their way to
design a whole new exhaust system to handle the stresses of the
catalytic converter
i'm just saying the 2010's are most likely just 2009 systems with a
cat thrown in -- drilling it out means i have an 09-ish exhaust
system, albeit the 02 bungs are placed differently
you disagree, you believe something else ... fine
there's nothing to be done about it now, and cat or no cat has no
affect on the sound, so let's just get on with it, shall we?
all i want is to change the type of sound by altering the baffles and
adding a fuel system - not increase volume - and straight, full-length
baffles aren't doing it
do you know if chambered baffles would give a more throaty sound?
what about half-length straights? what about a different endcap (mine
have a round hole, so i'm assuming not, unless it's the diameter that
would help)?
these are the only relevant questions in this thread
c
> Tyhe O2 sensors are in front of the cat so they may or may not be affected.
> Trouble is that the only way to find out now is to dyno it.
> I would have changed the entire system before butchering the cat.
> Bub and Rinehart are both making 2010 systems for the tourers anhd I expect
> V&H are too.
>
> --
> Bob Mann
i'm going to get a dyno tune done within the next few weeks ... for
superstitious reasons, i'm waiting until i pass the 1k mark
i presume it'd be easy to find a stock 2010 header in a RKC w/ a stage
II kit w/ supertrapp slip on mufflers - he and i can compare numbers
i will gladly post back any results we find
c
> Steve Irving wrote:
>
> > It's mickey mouse shit like that that gets my Goat (pun intended),
> > uninformed, ignorance, and (power) tools........a VERY dangerous
> > combination.
>
> Only thing that could have made this better is if you'd had a few beers
> before/while doing the abortion to your new bike and either removed a fingertip,
> or drilled through the palm of your hand........
>
> --
> Steve Irving BS#237 - Goat Head
you replied to yourself to wish me ill
i pretty much want to point this out as the reason i'm out
don't worry, i won't let the door hit me on the way out
c
> c wrote:
> > the dealer said supertrapp's sounded good ... the internet said they
> > sounded good ... i've seen people with supertrapps and they were
> > good ... something about the 2010's or about these particular
> > supertrapp's ("SE" - a nod to when they were screamin eagle II, but
> > now the "SE" is "super elite" or some BS) just isn't working
>
> In all honesty, I fucked around with the FXR for months and months, changing
> seats, suspension heights, and handlebars to make it "look cool". Then I
> eventually settled down, and put it back as close to stock as I could make
> it. It's now a _much_ better bike than anything I could make out of it by
> changing shit. The MoCo knew what they were doing, and didn't need me to
> fuck it up. In the end, I only changed out the handle bars, dropped the
> front end an inch to accomodate my inseam, added a fairing and a crashbar
> with chaps. I can now ride all day without getting too worn out.
>
i'm glad you found what you were looking for ... all i've changed so
far is i added some highway pegs, i swapped the bars for heritage bars
since no major rewiring was required (and i LOVE the bars), and i did
the stage II kit @ delivery so it's rolled into the warranty -- very,
very happy i did that
and, of course, the pipes thing, but that's a work in progress~
> Since I was looking to quiet down my bike, not increase performance, I
> eventually steered clear of all the bolt on performance exhausts, and ebay'd
> a stock head-pipe w/crossover (took a couple of years for the timing and the
> bid-out to work in my favor). Once I had the head-pipe, I also found a set
> of NIB tapered mufflers by Khrome Werks on ebay for 75 bucks, and slipped
> them on. Bike sounds fucking awesome when it fires up, has that big block
> sound at 1/2 to full throttle between 1500 and 2500 RPM, but isn't
> overwhelmingly loud. Above 2500 the higher frequency pulses mellow out the
> system and it runs reasonably quiet. Below 2500, with only mild throttle
> twist, it doesn't draw the attention of folks on the street, including cops,
> even with the big throat sound.
>
appears to be a nice setup, those are the points i would like myself
> You would probably love the way it sounds. Me? I don't give a fuck really.
i wonder if that's really true...
>
> When you ride a lot, you realize that loud pipes suck, and the tone is
> meaningless when it's lost between the ear plugs and your ear drums, inside
> your helmet. A cool sounding bike is merely for the benefit of your ego, not
> ride comfort, or that sense of independence and self reliance that makes
> motorcycling truly enjoyable.
>
i disagree, and i'm not alone, but i'm not willing to further this
point of discussion ... yes LOUD pipes suck, but pipes that have a
sound (regardless of volume) that's appealing are ... well, more
appealing than pipes without --- no?
my bike sounds like a helicopter ... it makes a
whoopwhoopwhoopwhoopwhoop sound .. it became easier in this thread to
attack an exhaust modification that has no bearing on the sound
quality than to offer some explanation of the different types of
sounds and what qualities produce them
all that's come out is round-hole exhaust outlets are a property of
throaty exhaust, that SuperTrapp SE slip-ons don't sound that good,
and that louder pipes have the sound
and you say Kromewerks have a modest-volume, throaty-quality sound --
there may not be an explanation coming but i'll check those out
so thank you
> So, stop fucking with your exhaust and let's ride right on past the next 27
> towns, and 27 bars we see, until we're so damn tired it's motel time. We can
> -Steve P.
> (in Mass)
thanks again, man
c
cruel, isn't it? not even a harley can live up to Harley
Steve Paul
>
> all i want is to change the type of sound by altering the baffles and
> adding a fuel system - not increase volume - and straight, full-length
> baffles aren't doing it
>
When are you going to get it?
First off, this is a group of misfits with a strong independent streak who
like to meet up with other misfits IRL a couple of times or more a year,
while out for a 1200 to 8000 mile ride. You're free to show up, when
invited, on whatever the hell you like to ride, in whatever state of
disrepair or modification you can manage, or in a cage, or on a moped, if
you have to. Not everyone rides a Harley here, although they may wish they
did, or may have ridden one in the past.
Second, no one here (on the internet) is able, or even willing, to hold your
hand and guide you to the perfect sound solution. You want advice on hopping
up your motor, that's a little different.
Show up at an IRL someday, crack open a beer, and you'll find out to get
that sound, if you hear something you like.
Last time it needs to be said.
Have a drink on me.
--
Steve Paul
EKIII, BS284
'93 FXRS-C "Mule"
No salt, No plans
AH#104
>you replied to yourself to wish me ill
>i pretty much want to point this out as the reason i'm out
I pretty much laugh at people that need to post *why* they're leaving.
Think about it.
Why?
Just leave... (not asking *you* to leave), but why the need to
aggrandize it, or worse yet to blame someone?
Whhaaa mommy, that person was mean to me...
The_Rhetorical_ASSHOLE#104 Len.
JMark
> I pretty much laugh at people that need to post *why* they're leaving.
Same as the ploink...or was that plink...?
--
JMark
AH#104
>> leaving.
>JMark sed:
> Same as the ploink...or was that plink...?
PLONK!
Steve Paul
> On Nov 11, 10:53 pm, "Steve Paul" <smarshallp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You would probably love the way it sounds. Me? I don't give a fuck
>> really.
>
> i wonder if that's really true...
>
I don't know about the former, but the latter is absolutely true.The Khrome
Werks mufflers aren't as quiet as I wanted. I'm searching for stock FXR
mufflers off and on. Money is tight, but a clean pair in good shape would
have me parting with cash PDQ.
Not sure how they'd work out with the EV-27 and the S&S though. I still have
the original CV carb.
Berry Oakley
Damn! I love this newsgroup!
I learn a new word every now and then that I never heard of!
Aggrandize!
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/aggrandize
Kewl!
Kinda like he's advertising his aggrandiss in stupidity!
Berry Oakley
> PLONK!
I plooked my wife! :)
Moving on...
"Nigger knocking" was a term used way back when, to ring a door bell,
and then run like hell before being shot.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nigger+knocking
Same thing as the afore mentioned "Ploink, Plink, or Plonk."
Berry Oakley
Plinking is a term used for shooting cans lined up on yer fence with a
small caliber firearm.
And no, I do NOT Mean AfriCANS, MexiCANS, PuertoriCANs, or other illegal
AmeriCANS!
DaveN
> So why bother, I am (after all) just a pisshead........
>
Self awareness is a good thing Steve.
DaveN
Dean
>c wrote:
>> On Nov 11, 6:05 pm, Steve Irving <sd...@NOSPAMq.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Probably wants the sound he heard on one of the bikes when he was watching "Wild
>>> Hogs".........
>>>
>>> --
>>> Steve Irving BS#237 - Goat Head
>>
>> i never saw that, but if you want to throw around insults then i'll
>> just say an ultra is only conceivably nicer than a road king classic
>> if you're and old fart =P
>>
>
>I'm confused. I just traded an '05 Road King Classic, (95", Andrews
>cams, V&H touring oval slip-ons, etc.) for a '10 Ultra. I'm kind of
>old too. The new bike is far better than the '05 in ride, comfort,
>handling, etc.
>
>So am I an Olde Pharte, or a Fag?
Neither: You're a Lucky Fuck.
Dean
EKIII
'06FLHR
"My choices in life were either to be a piano player in a whore house or a politician. And to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference!"
- Harry Truman
Dean
I need to eat, if you ain't stopping to eat, I ain't going.
>
>I've learned that that's what this here virtual bar is all about. (And I've
>only been to one IRL!!)
>
>Shirley! A round for them's that's in agreement.
>
>-Steve P.
>(in Mass)
>
Dean
Rand McNally
> c wrote:
>> On Nov 11, 10:53 pm, "Steve Paul" <smarshallp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> You would probably love the way it sounds. Me? I don't give a fuck
>>> really.
>> i wonder if that's really true...
>>
>
> I don't know about the former, but the latter is absolutely true.The Khrome
> Werks mufflers aren't as quiet as I wanted. I'm searching for stock FXR
> mufflers off and on. Money is tight, but a clean pair in good shape would
> have me parting with cash PDQ.
>
> Not sure how they'd work out with the EV-27 and the S&S though. I still have
> the original CV carb.
>
I had an EV27 in my evo- it worked fine and sounded really cool once I partially drilled
out the baffles.
--
Rand McNally BS#263
Yer not lost if you get back before the search party finds you...
Steve Paul
> "Steve Paul" wrote:
>> So, stop fucking with your exhaust and let's ride right on past the
>> next 27 towns, and 27 bars we see, until we're so damn tired it's
>> motel time. We can drink from the mini-bar until we pass out from
>> exhaustion, and then do it all over again the following day.
>
> I need to eat, if you ain't stopping to eat, I ain't going.
Heh. While you stop for lunch, I'll be playing catch-up. I've only got a
130 mile range on a tank.
Rand McNally
> Rand McNally wrote:
>> Steve Paul wrote:
>>> c wrote:
>>>> On Nov 11, 10:53 pm, "Steve Paul" <smarshallp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You would probably love the way it sounds. Me? I don't give a fuck
>>>>> really.
>>>> i wonder if that's really true...
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know about the former, but the latter is absolutely true.The
>>> Khrome Werks mufflers aren't as quiet as I wanted. I'm searching for
>>> stock FXR mufflers off and on. Money is tight, but a clean pair in
>>> good shape would have me parting with cash PDQ.
>>>
>>> Not sure how they'd work out with the EV-27 and the S&S though. I
>>> still have the original CV carb.
>>>
>>
>> I had an EV27 in my evo- it worked fine and sounded really cool once I
>> partially drilled out the baffles.
>>
>
>
I haven't tried drilling the toaster. Sounds like a good idea though.
Arie Bresser
>
> My take is the cat takes care fo the emissions so the A/F
> ratios don't have to be ridiculously lean. YMMV.
OOPS!!
nobody #1
> "c" <smalltalk...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>> what do you think is really going on?
> you think the moco let their bikes be neutered by the EPA, or do you
> think they designed around the upcoming EPA req's and made a bike that
> sounds/performs like it should, regardless of the EPA req's?<<<
>
>>>> i don't know for sure, but i DO know they want to sell you more
>>>> parts...<<<
>
> I don't have detailed comparisons of '09 vs '10 but I'm firmly convinced the
> cat allowed 'em to do the A/F ratios the way they should be. My '10 bone
> stock with slipons performs comparably to the modded '07...... true duals,
> slipons, SE breather, ThunderMax ECM tweaked to perfection. I get what feels
> like comparable performance and throttle response, better gas mileage and
> the plugs look the way they should after 3000 miles where the plugs on the
> '07 were chalk-white after 1k and it ran hotter than hell. This bike runs
> better and cooler. My take is the cat takes care fo the emissions so the A/F
>
>
>
Too rich and converters burn up and the exhaust smells like rotten
eggs. Too lean and the converter won't hardly work at all. The o-2
sensors are there to keep the a/f ratio at a converter friendly 14.7 to
1. The computer can only correct the a/f ratio in a fairly narrow range,
do any mods that put it at near the limit of it's ability to correct the
a/f ratio and it should kick on the check engine light. That's the way
it works on cars and I can't think of any reason that the engine
controls on the new Harleys would be any different.
nobody #1
just what i know about
electronic engine control
systems but i'm on a need
to know basis, daily
nobody #1
> "c" <smalltalk...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>> what do you think is really going on?
> you think the moco let their bikes be neutered by the EPA, or do you
> think they designed around the upcoming EPA req's and made a bike that
> sounds/performs like it should, regardless of the EPA req's?<<<
>
>>>> i don't know for sure, but i DO know they want to sell you more
>>>> parts...<<<
>
> I don't have detailed comparisons of '09 vs '10 but I'm firmly convinced the
> cat allowed 'em to do the A/F ratios the way they should be. My '10 bone
> stock with slipons performs comparably to the modded '07...... true duals,
> slipons, SE breather, ThunderMax ECM tweaked to perfection. I get what feels
> like comparable performance and throttle response, better gas mileage and
> the plugs look the way they should after 3000 miles where the plugs on the
> '07 were chalk-white after 1k and it ran hotter than hell. This bike runs
> better and cooler. My take is the cat takes care fo the emissions so the A/F
> ratios don't have to be ridiculously lean. YMMV.
>
> 112
>
>
hey, how'd that compensator work out?
nobody #1
danl
Hell, I'll drill the toaster if I can get evenly toasted bread. Right
now there are hot spots.
danl
Road Glidin' Don
> c wrote:
> > How can I get that sound?
>
> I've been hearing metric riders say almost the same thing for years.
>
> Greasy
Best answer so far, Greasy!
dp
> "nobody #1" <rndd...@comcast.net> wrote
>
>> hey, how'd that compensator work out?
>
> just ride it. Daytona and back the tap::::tap::::tapping in there became
> more pronounced.
>
My Mikuni flat slide carb sounds like that. I swear I thought it was lifter
noise but I've pulled over and adjusted the pushrods nearly a dozen times and
still there's that tap tap tap... I've changed the lifters twice.
I'm still going to go for a ride some day with the air cleaner off so I can poke
my finger in my Harley's pie hole and see if I can stop that tapping noise by
pushing on the slide. I bet it goes way. Then and only then will I be able to
sleep at night.
It's not easy owning a Mikuni. We probably need a support group on the web.
dp
nobody #1
>
> just ride it. Daytona and back the tap::::tap::::tapping in there became
> more pronounced.
>
> primary tensioner springs. Figured they were making noise trying to click up
> to the next notch but weren't quite making it. Some were obsessed enough to
> yank the primary cover and push it up a notch manually... said the noise
> stopped. Good thing they got rid of that inspection port in '07, huh? That'd
> make it too easy.
>
> I went the less direct route. Dropped it in gear with the engine off, clutch
> out and rocked it back n forth straining against the drivetrain's resistance
> thinking maybe if the noise was due to the tensioner maybe I'd get lucky and
> it'd adjust up a notch. No primary noise yesterday, I'm gonna give it some
> miles before I pronounce it cured.
>
> 112
>
>
One of the first things I noticed about the new bike when it was new
was the primary chain noise. A constant whining that I only heard on my
other bikes when the dealer adjusted all of the slack out of the chain.
My primary emits a low tap when the bike is warmed up I decided to
ignore it. This bike has several sounds coming from it but it's still
significantly quieter than the '01 and '05 I had before it. Well, except
for fifth gear it's loud as hell.
So was the SE compensator a waste of time and money? I can get my
stock one to rattle pretty hard if I take off quickly, almost like I'm
lugging the engine except I'm not.
nobody #1
Invisible68
>"c" <smalltalk...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:5b0d991e-6786-4029->98e9-4d3...@p36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
>> > the dealer said supertrapp's sounded good ... the internet said they
>> > sounded good ... i've seen people with supertrapps and they were
>> > good ... something about the 2010's or about these particular
>> > supertrapp's ("SE" - a nod to when they were screamin eagle II, but
>> > now the "SE" is "super elite" or some BS) just isn't working
>>
>
>
>> changing
>> seats, suspension heights, and handlebars to make it "look cool". Then I
>> eventually settled down, and put it back as close to stock as I could
>> make
>> it. It's now a _much_ better bike than anything I could make out of it by
>> changing shit. The MoCo knew what they were doing, and didn't need me to
>> fuck it up. In the end, I only changed out the handle bars, dropped the
>> front end an inch to accomodate my inseam, added a fairing and a crashbar
>> with chaps. I can now ride all day without getting too worn out.
>>
>
>far is i added some highway pegs, i swapped the bars for heritage bars
>since no major rewiring was required (and i LOVE the bars), and i did
>the stage II kit @ delivery so it's rolled into the warranty -- very,
>very happy i did that
>
>and, of course, the pipes thing, but that's a work in progress~
>
>> Since I was looking to quiet down my bike, not increase performance, I
>> eventually steered clear of all the bolt on performance exhausts, and
>> ebay'd
>> a stock head-pipe w/crossover (took a couple of years for the timing and
>> the
>> bid-out to work in my favor). Once I had the head-pipe, I also found a
>> set
>> of NIB tapered mufflers by Khrome Werks on ebay for 75 bucks, and slipped
>> them on. Bike sounds fucking awesome when it fires up, has that big block
>> sound at 1/2 to full throttle between 1500 and 2500 RPM, but isn't
>> overwhelmingly loud. Above 2500 the higher frequency pulses mellow out
>> the
>> system and it runs reasonably quiet. Below 2500, with only mild throttle
>> twist, it doesn't draw the attention of folks on the street, including
>> cops,
>> even with the big throat sound.
>>
>
>
>> You would probably love the way it sounds. Me? I don't give a fuck
>> really.
>
>i wonder if that's really true...
>>
>> When you ride a lot, you realize that loud pipes suck, and the tone is
>> meaningless when it's lost between the ear plugs and your ear drums,
>> inside
>> your helmet. A cool sounding bike is merely for the benefit of your ego,
>> not
>> ride comfort, or that sense of independence and self reliance that makes
>> motorcycling truly enjoyable.
>>
>i disagree, and i'm not alone, but i'm not willing to further this
>point of discussion ... yes LOUD pipes suck, but pipes that have a
>sound (regardless of volume) that's appealing are ... well, more
>appealing than pipes without --- no?
>
>my bike sounds like a helicopter ... it makes a
>whoopwhoopwhoopwhoopwhoop sound .. it became easier in this thread to
>attack an exhaust modification that has no bearing on the sound
>quality than to offer some explanation of the different types of
>sounds and what qualities produce them
just remember you pipes will sound different while you are riding the bike
verus being in the park watch you ride by....
and you having a different sound that is good then your friends(if you have
any) will know to get going be cause they will hear you coming.
I had the Pythons on my bike and my buddy's could tell my bike from others
before I pulled up...
Invisible68
MrScottly#54
> TL Mitchell wrote:
> > "c" <smalltalkingchic...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> >>>> what do you think is really going on?
> > you think the moco let their bikes be neutered by the EPA, or do you
> > think they designed around the upcoming EPA req's and made a bike that
> > sounds/performs like it should, regardless of the EPA req's?<<<
>
> >>>> i don't know for sure, but i DO know they want to sell you more
> >>>> parts...<<<
>
> > I don't have detailed comparisons of '09 vs '10 but I'm firmly convinced the
> > cat allowed 'em to do the A/F ratios the way they should be. My '10 bone
> > stock with slipons performs comparably to the modded '07...... true duals,
> > slipons, SE breather, ThunderMax ECM tweaked to perfection. I get what feels
> > like comparable performance and throttle response, better gas mileage and
> > the plugs look the way they should after 3000 miles where the plugs on the
> > '07 were chalk-white after 1k and it ran hotter than hell. This bike runs
> > better and cooler. My take is the cat takes care fo the emissions so the A/F
> > ratios don't have to be ridiculously lean. YMMV.
>
> > 112
>
> Too rich and converters burn up and the exhaust smells like rotten
> it works on cars and I can't think of any reason that the engine
> controls on the new Harleys would be any different.
>
> nobody #1
>
I can....the allowable amount of unburned hydrocarbon emmissions in a
bike is different from that in a car. That being said, the threshold
for a "fault" that turns on the light is much greater. The number of
momentary faults as related to emmissions to set a code is much
greater, aka more tolerance.
As to TL's seat-of-pants comparison on running qualities, one thing
has changed on the new models....the speed of the processor and the
memory capacity in the ECM. Where the cat might allow for a slightly
richer mix, the reaction speed to mixture variances due to intake
pressure variances is much quicker, erasing previously problematic
hesitations.
Wack the throttle open and listen for the ping....it used to ping a
bunch until the knock sensors picked it up and changed the timing.
Now, it only pings once.
MrScottly#54
nobody #1
>
> the SE!
>
> 112
>
>
Maybe so but if I don't need to spend any more money then I'm not
going to.
nobody #1
nobody #1
Is it? I don't know, what's the current specs for cars and bikes? hc
co nox?
That being said, the threshold
> for a "fault" that turns on the light is much greater.
Is it, I wonder why? What's threshold? Difference?
The number of
> momentary faults as related to emmissions to set a code is much
> greater, aka more tolerance.
I do a bit of work on cars emission related systems and momentary
faults is something I've never heard of. Seen plenty of intermittent
problems but those are repairable and go away once fixed. What's this
momentary stuff?
>
> As to TL's seat-of-pants comparison on running qualities, one thing
> has changed on the new models....the speed of the processor and the
> memory capacity in the ECM. Where the cat might allow for a slightly
> richer mix, the reaction speed to mixture variances due to intake
> pressure variances is much quicker, erasing previously problematic
> hesitations.
>
> Wack the throttle open and listen for the ping....it used to ping a
> bunch until the knock sensors picked it up and changed the timing.
> Now, it only pings once.
>
>
> MrScottly#54
>
>
My '09 never pings, ever. If I whack the throttle on it, it just goes
no fooling around, pinging, hesitation, nothing.
Anyway seems like you know a lot more about this than I do so if you'd
go into some detail about it I would appreciate it. Especially the
emission spec stuff. I haven't have a genuine gas analyzer since back in
the 80's.
Dean
>Dean wrote:
>> "Steve Paul" wrote:
>>> So, stop fucking with your exhaust and let's ride right on past the
>>> next 27 towns, and 27 bars we see, until we're so damn tired it's
>>> motel time. We can drink from the mini-bar until we pass out from
>>> exhaustion, and then do it all over again the following day.
>>
>> I need to eat, if you ain't stopping to eat, I ain't going.
>
>Heh. While you stop for lunch, I'll be playing catch-up. I've only got a
>130 mile range on a tank.
I've bought a 2.5 gal plastic spare. No more finding a pump with
3/10ths of a gallon left for this kid in the desert. It ain't that
inconvenient to carry a few gallons extra to fool Mr. Murphy.
Dean
EKIII
'06FLHR
"My choices in life were either to be a piano player in a whore house or a politician. And to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference!"
- Harry Truman
MrScottly#54
>
>
> If the variance allowed by the system on a car is (for example) .5%, why would a
> motorcycle not have the same variance of .5% before is sets a code??
Same reason diesel belches smoke out the pipe....because they can.
In any manufacturing environment, tolerance = cost....this includes
emmissions output.
Don't build to a standard you don't have to. Now, if they see the
future standards tightening and they plan ahead....??
MrScottly#54
MrScottly#54
>
> I do a bit of work on cars emission related systems and momentary
> faults is something I've never heard of. Seen plenty of intermittent
> problems but those are repairable and go away once fixed. What's this
> momentary stuff?
If you get a chance, go look up the lawsuit filed against Toyota by
the Feds about 8 years ago. Here is what was happening with that...
In an OBD2 system, no matter how perfect you make it, there will be
times when, due to environmental factors, that the A/F ratio is not
perfect and thus the tailpipe emmissions are not perfect. This can be
caused by any number of things (plastic bag blows over the snorkle
tube, carbon momentarily sticking in valves, wet plug wire, etc.).
The system does not automatically set a fault if it operates out of
perameters for, let's say, a fraction of a second, then returns to
normal. The system views this as an anomoly and over-looks it. The
system will allow a certain number of these anomolies to occur in a
certain period of time. Too many too soon, it sets a "fault" code.
So, my nomenclature of calling it a "momentary fault" could confuse
and I am sorry I worded it that way. But, back to the system...
Toyota was having a problem meeting the normally accepted "anomoly"
parameters before setting a fault. By government standards, the system
is required to illuminate the Check Engine Light after the same fault
has been found in two different driving cycles, which helps to avoid
CEL illumination for random faults or abnormal conditions. The CEL is
only allowed to extinguish when the same fault has not been detected
on three successive driving cycles.
Toyota got caught reprogramming the ECM's so that they allowed a
greater number of drive cycles before the light came on. Big no-no.
As to what we have now, Harley has benefitted from Delphi technology,
especially the knock sensor technology. That is neat. But, all of it
only goes so far when you have air-cooled cylinders operating at
unstable and inconsistent temps.
Water-cooling is a commin'....
MrScottly#54
danl
wrote:
>She a redhead??????
Brunette and tasty when toasted too!
danl