Marty Moates
sturd
First 'merican to win a USGP. He has run a fewAHRMA races
recently.
Godspeed Marty
Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.
FiftyPlus
sometimes life ain't all its cracked up to be.
oldfart
it. OF
oldfart
it. OF
Wellen - '02 200exc & '04 MTD 38
I keep encountering "heroes" that take their own life.
Red Mike Edson, who won the Medal of Honor on "Bloody Ridge" or
"Edson's Ridge" (Guadalcanal), killed himself too, years after the war.
(big sigh)
-JD
Joseph Rooney
"Wellen - '02 200exc & '04 MTD 38" <yo...@sisna.com> wrote in message
news:1165696263.0...@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
I walked that ridge in 1992 with surviving Marine Raiders, Navy and Army
folks. Somewhere on video tape I have a wind rustled narrative from one of
the Marines about how they made nighttime forays off the ridge to the Lunga
River for water. There were visible remains of foxholes built beneath the
crest of the ridge.
At the time, the Japanese kept attacking the middle and thinnest part of the
ridge in the mddle and on the side where the Marines couldn't have
interlocking fire.
You could drive it with a motorcycle, but an ATV would have fallen off in
the middle. Vandegrif had his headquarters buried under a Banyan tree on
the end nearest Henderson Field.
It was the trip of a lifetime, Got Marines?
Joe
XL600R
Wellen - '02 200exc & '04 MTD 38
> > "Edson's Ridge" (Guadalcanal), killed himself too, years after the war.
>
> folks.
Hallowed ground, indeed.
> Somewhere on video tape I have a wind rustled narrative from one of
> the Marines about how they made nighttime forays off the ridge to the Lunga
> River for water.
Few remember how the 1st Marine Division suffered on the 'canal. Many
had malaria for decades afterward, till they too finally died.
> There were visible remains of foxholes built beneath the
> crest of the ridge.
Vandergrif agreed to transfer the raiders & parachutists there as a
"rest area." It's amazing they carved what they did out of solid coral
in one day.
> At the time, the Japanese kept attacking the middle and thinnest part of the
> ridge in the mddle and on the side where the Marines couldn't have
> interlocking fire.
There were two reasons for Edson pulling back his lines for the second
night. One was better fields of fire. The other was they couldn't
retake the ground.
> You could drive it with a motorcycle, but an ATV would have fallen off in
> the middle. Vandegrif had his headquarters buried under a Banyan tree on
> the end nearest Henderson Field.
He moved his HQ back to the airfield after the battle. After, too,
some of the Japanese reaches his HQ & beyond.
> It was the trip of a lifetime, Got Marines?
Isn't there a quote from Reagan, something like, "some people wonder if
their lives have made a difference; the Marines don't have that
problem."
-JD
Joseph Rooney
Joe,
We will probably drive off some of the rmd community because you and myself
share an interest in Guadalcanal. I went to jokingly see if there were any
swarthy natives with the Rooney nose in high places. I also went to see if
any of the veterans knew my Dad as he died in 1979. One 90 year old Col
Cole of the Cactus Airforce MAG something or another, thought he remembered
my Dad. The flight surgeon that was pal'ing around with Col Cole said the
Marines were losing a pound a day and at some point, he sent them off island
to recover they were so weak.
Tassaforonga and Mantanikau, Red Beach, Iron Bottom Sound, I got some of the
stories, wished I could have gotten more. I didn't make it to the Gifu, but
we did travel up the coast where the last of the Japanese left.
There is an outside museum where they have all the aircraft, artillery and
materiel used in the battles. All the planes were found in the jungle,
chopped up and reassembled in the military park.
Remind me, if we have the first annual unauthorized, under the radar
Spodefest, I'll bring my Guadalcanal stuff.
Were you in the USMC?
Joe
oldfart
I have nothing but respect for our Marines. My first dirt biking
buddies was a Marine in 'Nam and another did two+ tours in Iraq. All I
can say is that I'm glad they are our side. I don't know what they made
of but they are boyond brave. Being that I was enthusiastic about
anything avaition as a kid I read lots of stories about Marine avaitors
and their exploits during WW2. Joe Foss was one of my favorite
charactors. Like I said, I am glad they are on our side. OF
Wellen - '02 200exc & '04 MTD 38
> the middle.
When you say "the middle," do you mean the saddle between Hill 123 &
Hill 80, Hill 80 being the hill defended the first night (also known as
"Hill #1"), Hill 123 being the hill they defended the second night
(also known as "Hill #2")?
The Japanese somehow man-handled an artillery piece into that saddle on
the 2nd night, the firing pin of which was too short to ignite the
shells' primers. The marines found a pile of unfired shells the next
morning, each of which had a very small dent in its primer. If those
were canister rounds and the firing pin had worked...
> I went to jokingly see if there were any
> swarthy natives with the Rooney nose in high places. I also went to see if
> any of the veterans knew my Dad as he died in 1979. One 90 year old Col
> Cole of the Cactus Airforce MAG something or another, thought he remembered
> my Dad.
Your dad was there?
> The flight surgeon that was pal'ing around with Col Cole said the
> Marines were losing a pound a day and at some point, he sent them off island
> to recover they were so weak.
Of the 20,000 or so men who originally landed with the 1st & 5th Marine
Regiments, the 1st Raider Battalion plus the 1st Parachute Battalion
(as best I can put together):
650 KIA & are buried on the 'canal
31 are still MIA
1,278 were wounded (earned Purple Heart medals)
8,580 had tropical diseases so bad they were admitted to the hospital
(primarily malaria, but also included dengue fever, & various types of
gastroenteritis)
Even the above numbers understate the effect of disease on the marines.
Per Pharmacist's Mate First Class Louis Ortega, "When you got malaria,
you might have it five times. Everybody was getting it over and over
again. I had it five times--twice on the island and three times in
Australia. Those were reoccurance attacks. If they evacuated people who
had it five times there would have been no one left in the field."
None of the above tries to quantify the suffering from lack of food.
Recall the Navy sailed off without unloading most of the Marines' food.
The Marines survived on captured Japanese rations. Ortega's words
give us a glimpse of what the survivors were like when they left
Guadalcanal:
"Anyway, we were sent to the beach by Lunga Point and were there 7 days
when we got the word that the Army was coming in and we were to be
relieved. We were all exhausted. We had no clothes. All I had was my
shoes, no socks, no underclothes. All I had was a pair of torn
dungarees and a khaki shirt. They came ashore with Higgins boats
[wooden 36-foot infantry landing craft]. We climbed over the sides into
the boats. When we got to the ship we couldn't make it. We started up
the cargo net and fell back into the boats. Sailors were tying ropes
around us and pulling us up. I had gone to Guadalcanal weighing about
150; I left weighing about 110."
> Tassaforonga and Mantanikau, Red Beach, Iron Bottom Sound,
The Goettge Massacre, Jacob Vouza, attack of the Ichiki Butai, Edson's
Ridge, Bloody Ridge (Chesty Puller).
> I got some of the
> stories, wished I could have gotten more.
Was Vouza still alive when you were there?
> I didn't make it to the Gifu,
Is there anything to look at there?
> but
> we did travel up the coast where the last of the Japanese left.
>
> There is an outside museum where they have all the aircraft, artillery and
> materiel used in the battles. All the planes were found in the jungle,
> chopped up and reassembled in the military park.
I didn't know there was anything left there to look at. I did a quick
search and found Leonard Skinner's description of the museum:
http://www.peak.org/~skinncr/oneman/chapter4.html
He mentions something I forgot to - how Guadalcanal's climate affected
sores:
"no one escaped tropical ulcers. Ankles were especially susceptible to
scratches from thorns in the jungle, and these would often fester and
turn into ulcers. We still had no medical supplies to use on something
this insignificant, so we just suffered. I had several ulcers, some of
which created such large holes in my leg that I could actually see the
white bone at the bottom. Flies found this fresh food very attractive
and they would bite into the exposed raw flesh in a manner that was
quite painful."
> Remind me, if we have the first annual unauthorized, under the radar
> Spodefest, I'll bring my Guadalcanal stuff.
You betcha!
One of my wife's students - her father works at the Custer Battlefield
- we're hoping to arrange a trip there & get a personal tour - I'll let
you know when we set that up for in case you'd be interested.
> Were you in the USMC?
No, I never served in the armed services. I'm a parasite.
I sure do admire the Marines though. "Spartans of the 20th Century"
-JD
Wellen - '02 200exc & '04 MTD 38
> Of the 20,000 or so men who originally landed with the 1st & 5th Marine
> Regiments, the 1st Raider Battalion plus the 1st Parachute Battalion
Sorry, sorry - I forgot the 2nd Marine Regiment and the 11th Marine
Artillery Regiment.
That's what I get for trusting my failing memory.
I wonder how bad it'll be when I'm as old as Scrape...
Oh well, it won't matter as I won't remember being able to, well,
remember.
Ahhh, the bliss of dementia.
-JD
Joseph Rooney
I read somewhere that Chesty was upset that the 2dMarDiv missing the initial
Guadalcanal landing. My Dad had contracted malaria before he got to
Guadalcanal. He got it in Nicaragua or Haiti. He also spent several months
in a French hospital with the flu around 1918. He also talked about New
Guinea, watching earthquakes in New Zealand and spending a brief period in
Australia.
I think highly of you "Wellen" not for the degrees or your constant lifelong
pixxing contests with Tim H., but that you know so much more about
Guadalcanal than myself. I think that elevates you from the parasite
category to a cut above.
More later,
Joe
XL600R
scrape
<yo...@sisna.com> wrote:
>Wellen - '02 200exc & '04 MTD 38 wrote:
>> Of the 20,000 or so men who originally landed with the 1st & 5th Marine
>> Regiments, the 1st Raider Battalion plus the 1st Parachute Battalion
>
>Sorry, sorry - I forgot the 2nd Marine Regiment and the 11th Marine
>Artillery Regiment.
>
>That's what I get for trusting my failing memory.
>
>I wonder how bad it'll be when I'm as old as Scrape...
Where the Hell am I now!?!?
>
>Oh well, it won't matter as I won't remember being able to, well,
>remember.
>
>Ahhh, the bliss of dementia.
>
>-JD
----
Bikes from Europe and Japan
Assorted numbers of strokes
Various causes and agendas
It's all about the wood.
----
Keith Schiffner
"Wellen - '02 200exc & '04 MTD 38"
news:1165696263.0...@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
Ira Hayes...suicide by alcohol.
Jim Douglas
there and wanting to be as fast as him, till I wrecked all the time....
Brian McG
> Joe,
> We will probably drive off some of the rmd community because you and
myself
> share an interest in Guadalcanal.
For me this is the best thread on RMD, keep posting this WWII
stuff.....Thanks for the Leonard Skinner link.
Wellen - '02 200exc & '04 MTD 38
> myself
> > share an interest in Guadalcanal.
>
> For me this is the best thread on RMD, keep posting this WWII
> stuff.....Thanks for the Leonard Skinner link.
I just got a copy of "Bloody Tarawa" by Eric Hammel:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0760324026/002-6947310-3973666
I've read a few books on Tarawa including "Utmost Savagery" by
Alexander which, before I ready Hammel's book, I thought was the best
on Tarawa:
For squad, platoon & company-level detail, Hammel's book is incredible.
I was initially disappointed by the lead-in to the landing, e.g., not
discussing the LVT-related issues, but once the book's into the actual
landing it comes as close to tracking the combat on an individual
combatant-basis as is possible.
-JD