Frozen swingarm axle
Mike W.
Jay was right (I have *never* wanted to write that down). I'm pulling the
XR's SA shaft since I have to send my blown rear shock in for service
anyway. The shock is off to Fact Connection but the axle is still in the
bike. I'm reluctant to strike it any harder until I hear suggestions about
methods of attack.
After removing the RHS nut, I have hit the axle rather hard with what I
believe is a 60oz hammer. No movement. I'm going to hit Sears now for a
17mm impact socket for my hand-driven impact tool to see if that provides
any additional influence on the axle's position. Probably a long shot.
What about heat? Seems like the thing I need to hear is so far inside the
bearings that I'll screw up the dust seals etc by getting to an adequate
temp level.
How hard to strike? It feels funny (bad funny) hitting the old girl like
this. I have used a 1/2" socket extender for the strikes so far as all my
drifts are so small they'll end up inside the axle and likely spread the
end open.
I'm sure Jay's reply to this will make my neighbors think I'm re-enacting
Saving Private Ryan in the garage (this is not a bad thing:)... I'm
interested in hearing how much violence I can visit on the XR and still
not destroy it, but of course, all replies are welcome. Thank you.
Mike W.
96 XR400
74 CZ250 Enduro
BRC, AMA, NETRA
Dennis Kennedy
Mike W. <mwil...@deletethstoemailme.crocker.com> wrote:
>
> Jay was right (I have *never* wanted to write that down). I'm pulling
the
> XR's SA shaft since I have to send my blown rear shock in for service
> anyway. The shock is off to Fact Connection but the axle is still in
the
> bike.
>
re-enacting
> Saving Private Ryan in the garage (this is not a bad thing:)... I'm
> interested in hearing how much violence I can visit on the XR and
still
> not destroy it, but of course, all replies are welcome. Thank you.
>
> Mike W.
> 96 XR400
> 74 CZ250 Enduro
> BRC, AMA, NETRA
>
Mike, I'm very dissapointed in you. You should have pulled this apart
when the bike was new and greased the bolt (and all bearings, since
Honda is so chincy with grease) for future dissasembly.
If the bolt is truly frozen, this may not work. I suggest that you
purchase a brass drift punch. The brass should be softer than the bolt
and, hopefully, won't scar it. Use your big hammer with this punch and
hopefully, the bolt will come out. Heat and liberal amounts of WD-40,
or something similiar, in conjunction with the punch and hammer would be
my next plan of attack. Good luck Mike. I think you'll find that side
hill trails are more fun than frozen swing arm bolts.
--
Dennis Kennedy
kennedy_dennis at hotmail dot com
kennedy at NOSPAMrogueNOSPAMwave dot com
'96 VFR750, '98 XR400, '99 CR250
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Dan Timberlake
>methods of attack.
loosen it when lots of torque can not.
For heavy duty full length corrosion an impact on a brass drift will
fail, especially against the weight of the bike won't do much.
I'd soak everything with PB Blaster. It's my favorite penetrating oil
right now. I've had pretty poor results with with WD-40, the various
Liquid Wrenches and Kroil. After soaking it 3 or 4 times a day I'd rig
up a puller that threads into the pivot. .get a high strength bolt
that engages at least 2 diameters into the pivot. nuts and washers
and spacers pull the pivot out of the frame. If it doesn;t move
you'll need some serious Oxyacetlylene heat. Propane torches won't do
it. If it s real bad a hydraulic press, and complicated fixturing
will be required, or sawing through the parts you can sacrifice works
well.
>
>After removing the RHS nut, I have hit the axle rather hard with what I
>believe is a 60oz hammer. No movement. I'm going to hit Sears now for a
>17mm impact socket for my hand-driven impact tool to see if that provides
>any additional influence on the axle's position. Probably a long shot.
>
>What about heat? Seems like the thing I need to hear is so far inside the
>bearings that I'll screw up the dust seals etc by getting to an adequate
>temp level.
>
>How hard to strike? It feels funny (bad funny) hitting the old girl like
>this. I have used a 1/2" socket extender for the strikes so far as all my
>drifts are so small they'll end up inside the axle and likely spread the
>end open.
>
Mike W.
<kennedy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Mike, I'm very dissapointed in you.
Get in line! <s>
> You should have pulled this apart
>when the bike was new and greased the bolt (and all bearings, since
>Honda is so chincy with grease) for future dissasembly.
I been feeling guilty too carrying it forward in Outlook for every
Saturday since I heard about it, I think about a year ago.
>If the bolt is truly frozen, this may not work. I suggest that you
>purchase a brass drift punch. The brass should be softer than the bolt
>and, hopefully, won't scar it. Use your big hammer with this punch and
>hopefully, the bolt will come out.
I bought a big hunk of brass (some kind of huge cotter pin) and a 12"
piece of thick zinc rod at Home Depot... Just bashed the crap out of it
for 10 min... no luck and only minor deformation of the axle end. No luck
with the hand-operated impact driver either.
> Heat and liberal amounts of WD-40,
>or something similiar, in conjunction with the punch and hammer would be
>my next plan of attack.
Can you elaborate on the heating part? How far do I take it? It's
currently got liquid wrench soaking in at all the available seams now.
What is the backup plan if all this fails? Take the frame to the
dealership maybe?
>Good luck Mike.
Thank you much Dennis!
>I think you'll find that side
>hill trails are more fun than frozen swing arm bolts.
I really don't think so... Just ask Wes or Scott:) This problem will get
fixed but my ass falling off the cliffs of Cow Mountain has more permanent
consequences... for both me and the mountain actually:)
Mike
Bob and Sandy
Why don't you try running the bike up to operating temp and then try banging
on it,This could be just enough to loosen it without any heat damage.
Bob H.
RM250
Mike W. wrote in message ...
>
>Jay was right (I have *never* wanted to write that down). I'm pulling the
>XR's SA shaft since I have to send my blown rear shock in for service
>anyway. The shock is off to Fact Connection but the axle is still in the
>bike. I'm reluctant to strike it any harder until I hear suggestions about
>methods of attack.
>
>After removing the RHS nut, I have hit the axle rather hard with what I
>believe is a 60oz hammer. No movement. I'm going to hit Sears now for a
>17mm impact socket for my hand-driven impact tool to see if that provides
>any additional influence on the axle's position. Probably a long shot.
>
>What about heat? Seems like the thing I need to hear is so far inside the
>bearings that I'll screw up the dust seals etc by getting to an adequate
>temp level.
>
>How hard to strike? It feels funny (bad funny) hitting the old girl like
>this. I have used a 1/2" socket extender for the strikes so far as all my
>drifts are so small they'll end up inside the axle and likely spread the
>end open.
>
>I'm sure Jay's reply to this will make my neighbors think I'm re-enacting
>Saving Private Ryan in the garage (this is not a bad thing:)... I'm
>interested in hearing how much violence I can visit on the XR and still
>not destroy it, but of course, all replies are welcome. Thank you.
>
Mike W.
<kennedy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Fortunately, I've never had to go farther than the drift punch method of
>removing a swingarm bolt. I think you're right, heat will melt the
>bearing seals, but they're not too expensive. I also think you're going
>to have to be careful with heat and not go too far. You're bearings are
>probably toast anyway, so I wouldn't worry about that, but I think the
>swingarm is already some kind of heat treated aluminum and you don't
>want to change those characteristics. I think I would try to get the
>engine and swingarm hot, but not hot enough to discolor anything, and go
>back at it with the punch and hammer.
I'll assume I'm at this point, though the penetrating oil may come
through... I'll keep it doused through tomorrow night and see what comes
of it. I know I don't have the time for an involved problem but I really
do want to fix this myself given my own stupidity brought me here. I am
uncomfortable with the heat approach. I know sometimes you can change the
material properties of a part without knowing it and I'm not so sure all
mechanics are on top of this either. What I am thinking of doing is
getting some small sections of steel beams and, using some chains and a
hydraulic jack, trying to do it that way. These things always take 5 times
longer than you wanted though. Maybe easiest to just pull off the forks
and stuff what's left into my trailer and take it to the dealer. I *hate*
being stupid!
Failing this, I would head to the
>dealer with my tail between my legs. They probably have a press or
>something that will get it out. Someone else mentioned a hacksaw. This
>might be ok if there is room between the swingarm and other parts to cut
>only the bolt. It's probaly worth destroying the bolt so you don't have
>to drag the bike to the dealer.
I might be able to do this too... I'll have to take a closer look when I'm
back at it tomorrow.
>One of our system administrators worked at the Honda shop for 8 years.
>I'll ask him what he suggests tomorrow. Again, good luck.
Thanks Dennis... Let me know what he says. I would guess dealers see this
once in a while. There MUST be others as dumb as I am.
Mike
Mike W.
wrote:
>> I'm reluctant to strike it any harder until I hear suggestions about
>>methods of attack.
>For a bolt or fuel fitting locked with slight corrosion an impact can
>loosen it when lots of torque can not.
>For heavy duty full length corrosion an impact on a brass drift will
>fail, especially against the weight of the bike won't do much.
Therefore, by this rule I have heavy duty full length corrosion. CRAP!!
>
>I'd soak everything with PB Blaster. It's my favorite penetrating oil
>right now. I've had pretty poor results with with WD-40, the various
>Liquid Wrenches and Kroil. After soaking it 3 or 4 times a day I'd rig
>up a puller that threads into the pivot. .get a high strength bolt
>that engages at least 2 diameters into the pivot. nuts and washers
>and spacers pull the pivot out of the frame.
Going out to the garage right now to check if the LHS has a hole in it
too. Hey... the hole is there but while I was out there, I tried turning
the bolt with my 18" breaker bar. It actually started turning. It's late
so I only felt good giving it 2 smacks with the big hammer and nothing
moved, but maybe this is progress? I'll give this puller method a shot
though on Tues!
> If it doesn;t move
>you'll need some serious Oxyacetlylene heat. Propane torches won't do
>it.
Can't do this... I actually have oxy and acet in the garage but I
inherited that from my dad 20 years ago. Haven't used it since I welded up
my sisters swing in 76 and don't have the balls to experiment with old
hoses and tanks.
>If it s real bad a hydraulic press, and complicated fixturing
>will be required, or sawing through the parts you can sacrifice works
>well.
>
I get the feeling not a lot of stuff gets in your way for too long Dan:)
Thank you for the detailed reply.
Mike W.
wrote:
>Mike,
>Why don't you try running the bike up to operating temp and then try banging
>on it,This could be just enough to loosen it without any heat damage.
>Bob H.
>RM250
>
Oh... it's an XR... starting it will be harder than doing all this other
complicated stuff:) (it's in there *really* good)
Dennis Kennedy
Mike W. <mwil...@deletethstoemailme.crocker.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Nov 2000 18:13:39 GMT, Dennis Kennedy
> <kennedy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >If the bolt is truly frozen, this may not work. I suggest that you
> >purchase a brass drift punch. The brass should be softer than the
bolt
> >and, hopefully, won't scar it. Use your big hammer with this punch
and
> >hopefully, the bolt will come out.
>
> I bought a big hunk of brass (some kind of huge cotter pin) and a 12"
> piece of thick zinc rod at Home Depot... Just bashed the crap out of
it
> for 10 min... no luck and only minor deformation of the axle end. No
luck
> with the hand-operated impact driver either.
>
> > Heat and liberal amounts of WD-40,
> >or something similiar, in conjunction with the punch and hammer would
be
> >my next plan of attack.
>
> Can you elaborate on the heating part? How far do I take it? It's
> currently got liquid wrench soaking in at all the available seams now.
>
> What is the backup plan if all this fails? Take the frame to the
> dealership maybe?
>
>
>
Fortunately, I've never had to go farther than the drift punch method of
removing a swingarm bolt. I think you're right, heat will melt the
bearing seals, but they're not too expensive. I also think you're going
to have to be careful with heat and not go too far. You're bearings are
probably toast anyway, so I wouldn't worry about that, but I think the
swingarm is already some kind of heat treated aluminum and you don't
want to change those characteristics. I think I would try to get the
engine and swingarm hot, but not hot enough to discolor anything, and go
dealer with my tail between my legs. They probably have a press or
something that will get it out. Someone else mentioned a hacksaw. This
might be ok if there is room between the swingarm and other parts to cut
only the bolt. It's probaly worth destroying the bolt so you don't have
to drag the bike to the dealer.
I'll ask him what he suggests tomorrow. Again, good luck.
--
dt...@my-deja.com
What you need to do is:
Lay the bike on its side with 2x4s or 4x4s supporting it at the frame
and swing arm so the bike doesn't rock around. Soak the bolt in a
penetrating oil for a while. Use a propane torch on the journals of the
engine and swingarm that the bolt passes thru. Try not to heat the bolt
itself. The idea is to try to conduct enough heat thru the journals into
the sleeves and bearings to promote expansion and just short of
conducting it to the bolt. This is sort of an educated guess. Keep
feeling the bolt as you heat the journals. When it starts feeling warm,
stop with the torch. As an added measure, if you want, since the bolt is
hollow, pull a piece of rag or cloth all the way thru the bolt to the
other side. You can use ice water to soak this rag to keep the bolt cool
and contracted as you heat the journals. When you think you've heated
them enough, use an air hammer with approriate drift to push the bolt
out. An air hammer is what your dealer will most likely use if you take
it in. This technique does work. Good luck if you decide to try it. Let
us know how it goes.
Derek
'00XR400
In article <dj6b0tcnpvd8v6o07...@4ax.com>,
Mike W. <mwil...@deletethstoemailme.crocker.com> wrote:
>
> Jay was right (I have *never* wanted to write that down). I'm pulling
the
> XR's SA shaft since I have to send my blown rear shock in for service
> anyway. The shock is off to Fact Connection but the axle is still in
the
> bike. I'm reluctant to strike it any harder until I hear suggestions
about
> methods of attack.
>
> Mike W.
> 96 XR400
> 74 CZ250 Enduro
> BRC, AMA, NETRA
>
Peter Patton
get the job done....even if it means using a hacksaw to trash the lesser
expensive parts. Even still, this way can be costly. Sometimes I will
just stare for a long time at the area of the bike giving me problems.
Eventually, something almost always comes to me. In your situation I
would concur with Derek. Lean your bike over to the left resting your
bars on you stand, lube it in that position (that way the lube will run
down the bolt's direction) and let it sit overnight. In the morning
apply heat/cold as Derek described. At that point I would personally use
a socket the same size as the end of the bolt (with an extention) and
give it a HARD whack with a sledge hammer (you will need another pair of
hands). Having been able to turn the bolt like you mentioned is very
encouraging. I've done this kind of thing MANY times, even with crank
removal from the case, and have had no problem with strippage or dammage
to parts. You will need to use the same technique to remove the
certainly trashed bearings. You may be able to use some fine sandpaper
and save the bolt. Me and my boy kid each other from time to time
comparing some of life's issues to that of doing a triple......you
either have to commit yourself to doing it or don't do it at all.
Anything inbetween will HURT! Get that sledge out and give it a firm
committed whack. Remember, even with loosening bolts/nuts, the best way
is the sharp/immediate removal, NOT the slow turn method. I'm so
confident in this that I'm just a hair away from offering to buy the
parts if it doesn't work :-) Personally (at least this is the way I've
done it in the past with good results), I would skip the lube/heat thing
and go right to the sledge. I can't stand waiting around :)
Let us know how it goes.
Peter
"Mike W." wrote:
>
> On Sun, 05 Nov 2000 21:35:56 GMT, dj...@ultranet.com (Dan Timberlake)
> wrote:
>
> >> I'm reluctant to strike it any harder until I hear suggestions about
> >>methods of attack.
> Mike W.
> 96 XR400
> 74 CZ250 Enduro
> BRC, AMA, NETRA
--
http://www.minnesotamotocross.com
Pe...@minnesotamotocross.com
Motocross Rules!!
Peter 3 # 524
Peter # 739
Jim Hall
> Failing this, I would head to the
>dealer with my tail between my legs. They probably have a press or
>something that will get it out. Someone else mentioned a hacksaw. This
>might be ok if there is room between the swingarm and other parts to cut
>only the bolt. It's probaly worth destroying the bolt so you don't have
>to drag the bike to the dealer.
Emory at Big Joe's had to remove a frozen swingarm bolt from an old
street Yamaha a few weeks ago. He literally had to drill it out from
both sides using progressively larger bits.
I don't know of any magic dealer tool that removes frozen swingarm
bolts.
Jim Hall
'00 520 EXC
'98 380 EXC (FOR SALE) and others
turning Money into Noise...
Thank you Big Joe's Cycle; Plateau Engineering
Hoyt McKagen
>
> On Sun, 05 Nov 2000 18:13:39 GMT, Dennis Kennedy
> dealership maybe?
Spread the frame a bit at the SA mounts and saw it at each side.
The problem is it's rusted into the inner pivot sleeves, very hard to get
it loose again. You may get luck with some penetrating oil and heating of
the ends of bolt. If you get any motion no matter how small, continue
with reversing direction and keep reversing as you go. You will almost
certainly mushromm the bolt hammering it, so be prepared for the worst.
BTW, on some of these I have been able to cut off the head and draw the
bolt using the threads.
Regards,
Hoyt McKagen
Belfab CNC - http://www.freeyellow.com/members/belfab/belfab.html
Best MC Repair - http://www.freeyellow.com/members/batwings/best.html
Camping/Caving - http://www.freeyellow.com/members/batwings/caving.html
Animals have fleas and ticks but I have minions
Mike W.
A silver lining appears... I just got permission from you to get me a new
compressor and air hammer. YEEEE HAA:) Thanks for the suggestion Derek. I
think I'm going to give this a try but minus the heat (no guts:). Looks
like I'm off to Tool Territory tonight. I haven't tried the gold again
this morning but maybe it's a little looser still...
Mike
Mike W.
Thanks Pete... I'm getting the feeling from so many specific replies that
I'm not the first guy in the history of RMD to let this happen. No matter
what, looks like I'll be buying some parts though. I'll keep you posted on
how this goes. Right now, I'm psyched because I might get a compressor/air
hammer out of all this (already have a sledge hammer) and be able to plead
genuine necessity. I'm a whore.. what can I say:) Think I'll go lay it
over and give it another squirt of loose juice.
Mike
>Let us know how it goes.
>Peter
>
>"Mike W." wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 05 Nov 2000 21:35:56 GMT, dj...@ultranet.com (Dan Timberlake)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >> I'm reluctant to strike it any harder until I hear suggestions about
>> >>methods of attack.
Brian McGarry
"Mike W." wrote:
> A silver lining appears... I just got permission from you to get me a new
> compressor and air hammer. YEEEE HAA:) Thanks for the suggestion Derek. I
> think I'm going to give this a try but minus the heat (no guts:). Looks
> like I'm off to Tool Territory tonight. I haven't tried the gold again
> this morning but maybe it's a little looser still...
>
> Mike
>
Ok Mike, I pissed off after reading this post. Save yourself some
money and garage space. Just buy me or someone else a airplane ticket,
hotel room, beer, a nice dinner and maybe a rental car for the
weekend. I'll have that bolt out in a 1/2 hour. Now where do you live???
Dennis Kennedy
Mike W. <mwil...@deletethstoemailme.crocker.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Nov 2000 00:42:59 GMT, Dennis Kennedy
> <kennedy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >One of our system administrators worked at the Honda shop for 8
years.
> >I'll ask him what he suggests tomorrow. Again, good luck.
>
this
> once in a while. There MUST be others as dumb as I am.
>
> Mike
>
He says that there's no magic bullet. Heat, penetrating oil, and a big
hammer is how they do it at the shop. Persistence and patience are
another key. He also says that you can heat the crap out of things
without hurting anything, so I say go for it. Heat could really help
loosen things up.
Mike W.
wrote:
Brian... which one of you is coming? <s>
Just kidding.. what you describe: ticket... hotel... nice dinner... rental
car sounds like my crappy job! I can actually get all that crap for free
with points & miles if you're willing to fly coach. I'll have to actually
pay for the dinner and the beer. Sounds fair. I'm in Mass... try to have
the hammering done before 830pm. There's a baby next door.
Mike
Mike W.
<kennedy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>He says that there's no magic bullet.
This gives me an idea.... <s>
>Heat, penetrating oil, and a big
>hammer is how they do it at the shop. Persistence and patience are
>another key. He also says that you can heat the crap out of things
>without hurting anything, so I say go for it. Heat could really help
>loosen things up.
The bike is listing to port now with penetrating oil seeping in
(hopefully) as we speak. I hope this works! Thanks again for the great
help Dennis.
Volker Bartheld
On Sun, 05 Nov 2000 12:43:19 -0500, Mike W.
<mwil...@deletethstoemailme.crocker.com> wrote :
>After removing the RHS nut, I have hit the axle rather hard with what I
>believe is a 60oz hammer. No movement. I'm going to hit Sears now for a
>17mm impact socket for my hand-driven impact tool to see if that provides
>any additional influence on the axle's position. Probably a long shot.
If you are stuck that far, don't care about the dust seals. They are pennies
compared to your rear axle, the bearings or the swingarm/rear hub itself.
For you, heating and cooling the stuff may safe the day. First, heat the axle
with e heat gun (feel free to select the "are you nuts?"-level for temperature
preselection) and blow _through the axle (in former days, I've had a XR and
guess it's bored hollow like my KTM's). Maybe you try to heat the hub, too, to
avoid abnormal stress. Give the axle some hard smacks with your hammer and a
matching driver. After that, spray into the axle with electronic-coolant spray
to cool it down. Some more smacks. Repeat. Maybe you can flood everything with
WD40 (or Caramba or whatever you find suitable). Repeat from step 1.
Your last resort is a puller tool. If you take into account that solution, you
almost 100%ly say goodbye to your bearings.
Let's hope for the best!
Good luck,
Vol.grease early, grease often.ker
_
Volker Bartheld < @: agentoNOSPAM@rrrDOTde >
XR600R '94: "One man, one cylinder." (sold)
CR250 '94: "Catch me - if you can... ;-)"
KTM 620 LC4 SC '98: "Agent Orange"
http://home.pages.de/~AgentO
Volker Bartheld
Bartheld) wrote :
>If you are stuck that far, don't care about the dust seals. They are pennies
>compared to your rear axle, the bearings or the swingarm/rear hub itself.
Uuups - pardon me. You were talking about the swingarm axle. Forget about my hub
blablah. Basically the same is true for your swingarm axle. I think, the
aluminum can really take some heating. At least better than barbaric impacts!
CU,
V.
IRKurt
>I'm sure Jay's reply to this will make my neighbors think I'm re-enacting
>Saving Private Ryan in the garage (this is not a bad thing:)... I'm
>interested in hearing how much violence I can visit on the XR and still
>not destroy it, but of course, all replies are welcome. Thank you.
>
>Mike W.
>96 XR400
>74 CZ250 Enduro
>BRC, AMA, NETRA
>
Oh, Mike...
Reading through, it seems you are going to capitalize on an opportunity to
acquire new tools though. That works. Make noise. If recreating Saving
Private Ryan, you must yell, just as Tom Hanks did in the movie, "Let's Rock'n
Roll..."
Good luck.
Kurt
99 KX250
MXOldtimer
ask for a min. of my time. I helped him lay a bike over (not a KTM) on some
blocks and he got a ? 3 lb hammer and started beating the hell out of the axel,
he said " once frozen you cant be nice to'em" all this time I try to be nice to
my bike and here he is beating the thing like he's driving rail road spikes.
Much later I took my bike in for repairs and that night I woke in a cold sweat
, I swore I heard my bike cry out :-(
Doug
Brian McGarry
"Mike W." wrote
> Brian... which one of you is coming? <s>
The 6' 3", 200 plus pounds, of sledge hammer swinging, one........
Put the nut on the bolt so it's flush with the tip of the bolt head. Find the
correct size drift.(socket, smaller than nut but larger than bolt) and start
beating with a 5 pound or better sledge hammer.
>
>
dirt...@my-deja.com
> How hard to strike? It feels funny (bad funny) hitting the old girl
like
> this. I have used a 1/2" socket extender for the strikes so far as
all my
> drifts are so small they'll end up inside the axle and likely spread
the
> end open.
>
enacting
> Saving Private Ryan in the garage (this is not a bad thing:)... I'm
> interested in hearing how much violence I can visit on the XR and
still
> not destroy it, but of course, all replies are welcome. Thank you.
Wow! At first I thought you were talking about your wife :( DD
Mike W.
Well... I am. What do you think I'm referring to? <s>
Mike
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
Mike W.
Mike W.
>
>Oh, Mike...
>
>Reading through, it seems you are going to capitalize on an opportunity to
>acquire new tools though. That works. Make noise. If recreating Saving
>Private Ryan, you must yell, just as Tom Hanks did in the movie, "Let's Rock'n
>Roll..."
Do I need a Jay haircut to "sell this" or can I just take my tie off?
>
>Good luck.
>
Thank you!
>Kurt
>99 KX250
Mike
Mike W.
wrote:
>
>
I took a run at this earlier (minus the big heat). The bike had been put
on it's left side earlier today and kept bathed in Liquid Wrench for the
past maybe 36 hours. I began hitting it progressively harder with the
brass drift and on the 4th or 5th hit, I think I sprained my f*%king
wrist! I SO f&%king hate being OLD!! I'd last about 1.2 sec on a rink
now... New plan to be formed when it stops hurting. Maybe I'll drag the
thing to the dealer... where did I put that chain???
Mike
Mike W.
(Volker Bartheld) wrote:
>Hi Mike!
>
>On Sun, 05 Nov 2000 12:43:19 -0500, Mike W.
><mwil...@deletethstoemailme.crocker.com> wrote :
>>After removing the RHS nut, I have hit the axle rather hard with what I
>>believe is a 60oz hammer. No movement. I'm going to hit Sears now for a
>>17mm impact socket for my hand-driven impact tool to see if that provides
>>any additional influence on the axle's position. Probably a long shot.
>
>If you are stuck that far, don't care about the dust seals. They are pennies
>compared to your rear axle, the bearings or the swingarm/rear hub itself.
Howdy Volker! I nominate you for the coolest name on the internet! I'm on
the Disabled List for the moment, but currently I'm to where I'm becoming
insensitive to cost and sensitive to time. I'm going to talk the guy next
store into working the hammer one more time as I go to nucular (I like it
better that way) levels of heat. It comes out or it doesn't. At that
point, it's the dealers. I'll just bend over and take it like a man. Of
course, when I say heat, I'm talking about the kind I can make with
propane as I am totally lacking the balls to trust my dads old hoses and
tanks in the corner (and besides, I remember his say "NEVER do such and
such or you'll die" and I don't remember what "such and such" is anymore).
Thanks for your reply!
Mike
uncool name:(
(Still better than a guy named "smiles" though:)
>
>For you, heating and cooling the stuff may safe the day. First, heat the axle
>with e heat gun (feel free to select the "are you nuts?"-level for temperature
>preselection) and blow _through the axle (in former days, I've had a XR and
>guess it's bored hollow like my KTM's). Maybe you try to heat the hub, too, to
>avoid abnormal stress. Give the axle some hard smacks with your hammer and a
>matching driver. After that, spray into the axle with electronic-coolant spray
>to cool it down. Some more smacks. Repeat. Maybe you can flood everything with
>WD40 (or Caramba or whatever you find suitable). Repeat from step 1.
>
>Your last resort is a puller tool. If you take into account that solution, you
>almost 100%ly say goodbye to your bearings.
>
>Let's hope for the best!
>
>
>Good luck,
>Vol.grease early, grease often.ker
>_
>Volker Bartheld < @: agentoNOSPAM@rrrDOTde >
>XR600R '94: "One man, one cylinder." (sold)
>CR250 '94: "Catch me - if you can... ;-)"
>KTM 620 LC4 SC '98: "Agent Orange"
>http://home.pages.de/~AgentO
Mike W.
dt...@my-deja.com
world in getting it out. If you're not comfortable with a propane torch,
use a heat gun. And don't beat on it! If you don't have an air hammer
and compressor, go to a rent-a-center and rent one for an hour or so.
Derek
In article <dj6b0tcnpvd8v6o07...@4ax.com>,
Mike W. <mwil...@deletethstoemailme.crocker.com> wrote:
>
> Jay was right (I have *never* wanted to write that down). I'm pulling
the
> XR's SA shaft since I have to send my blown rear shock in for service
> anyway. The shock is off to Fact Connection but the axle is still in
the
> bike. I'm reluctant to strike it any harder until I hear suggestions
about
> methods of attack.
>
> After removing the RHS nut, I have hit the axle rather hard with what
I
> believe is a 60oz hammer. No movement. I'm going to hit Sears now for
a
> 17mm impact socket for my hand-driven impact tool to see if that
provides
> any additional influence on the axle's position. Probably a long shot.
>
> What about heat? Seems like the thing I need to hear is so far inside
the
> bearings that I'll screw up the dust seals etc by getting to an
adequate
> temp level.
>
> How hard to strike? It feels funny (bad funny) hitting the old girl
like
> this. I have used a 1/2" socket extender for the strikes so far as all
my
> drifts are so small they'll end up inside the axle and likely spread
the
> end open.
>
> I'm sure Jay's reply to this will make my neighbors think I'm
re-enacting
> Saving Private Ryan in the garage (this is not a bad thing:)... I'm
> interested in hearing how much violence I can visit on the XR and
still
> not destroy it, but of course, all replies are welcome. Thank you.
>
> Mike W.
> 96 XR400
> 74 CZ250 Enduro
> BRC, AMA, NETRA
>
Volker Bartheld
On 06 Nov 2000 19:01:51 GMT, mxold...@aol.com (MXOldtimer) wrote :
>I was at a KTM shop wasting time & bothering them like always, when the owners
>ask for a min. of my time. I helped him lay a bike over (not a KTM) on some
>blocks and he got a ? 3 lb hammer and started beating the hell out of the axel,
>he said " once frozen you cant be nice to'em" all this time
Especially KTMs seem to have very small gaps between axle and bearing rails.
I've heard lots of people were having difficulties with removing the rear axle
or the swingarm pendant after some months.
I haven't had this prob with the rear axle but I'm really looking forward when
it comes to replacing some swingarm bearings (since me lazy bastard of course
haven't touched them for years!)... ;-((
Volker
Volker Bartheld
On Mon, 06 Nov 2000 23:38:05 -0500, Mike W.
<mwil...@deletethstoemailme.crocker.com> wrote :
>Howdy Volker! I nominate you for the coolest name on the internet!
I'm feeling very proud, right now! I suppose you're meaning the "Agent
Orange"-nickname? This name has historical reasons: When I got my yellow turd
(read "KTM") first, I didn't know much about it's ...uuum... let's say
"impressive straightforward nature". In a sharp turn, which my XR600R (RIP)
would have mastered with elegance, I blasted off into the woods. Of course
nothing happened to my Katoum thumper but there was a clear trail of
destruction. I had cut a forest aisle into the bushes! So my riding buddies keep
saying, I'm the German motorcycle pendant to the stuff used in Vietnam... ;-))
>At that point, it's the dealers. I'll just bend over and take it like a man.
If you have a dealer, you can trust in, you're a lucky guy! I remember taking
over my CR's engine to the dealer 'coz after reassembling the crankcase halfs
with the _OUTMOST_ care, new bearings, seals and all such the crank was turning
with a little "friction". This alarmed me because I hear my friends saying
"never ever hit on the crank" - I didn't, of course.
At the dealers, he gave the crankshaft some smacks (still shivering when I
remember it) with his hammer perpendicular to the bearing rails and said
"sometimes, those ladies need a little violence...". OK, the crank was turning
easily after all - but my world was shattered! ;-))
>I remember his say "NEVER do such and
>such or you'll die" and I don't remember what "such and such" is anymore).
*bg*
I keep doing "such and such" and am still there. Go ahead, wimp, and learn to be
a man. Melt your swingarm! ;-))
Volker aka "Agent Orange"
Mike W.
(Volker Bartheld) wrote:
>Hi Mike!
>
>On Mon, 06 Nov 2000 23:38:05 -0500, Mike W.
><mwil...@deletethstoemailme.crocker.com> wrote :
>>Howdy Volker! I nominate you for the coolest name on the internet!
>
>I'm feeling very proud, right now! I suppose you're meaning the "Agent
>Orange"-nickname?
Actually V, I didn't realize you had a nickennamen:)
>
>>At that point, it's the dealers. I'll just bend over and take it like a man.
>
>If you have a dealer, you can trust in, you're a lucky guy! I remember taking
>over my CR's engine to the dealer 'coz after reassembling the crankcase halfs
>with the _OUTMOST_ care, new bearings, seals and all such the crank was turning
>with a little "friction". This alarmed me because I hear my friends saying
>"never ever hit on the crank" - I didn't, of course.
>
>At the dealers, he gave the crankshaft some smacks (still shivering when I
>remember it) with his hammer perpendicular to the bearing rails and said
>"sometimes, those ladies need a little violence...". OK, the crank was turning
>easily after all - but my world was shattered! ;-))
>
This paragraph is part of a larger process that I participate in on a
daily basis... Just before I get on a plane, some education channel shows
a rerun of "Why Planes Crash". Or before I go to CA or Tokyo, I get all
the earthquake and tidal wave crap. Or... pick it. I have a perfect record
in this regard. Now what I'd like to know is who the hell notifies you
guys I'm about to do X and tells you a bunch of scary stuff about doing X
that I need to hear? *Please* tell him to stop!
>>I remember his say "NEVER do such and
>>such or you'll die" and I don't remember what "such and such" is anymore).
>
>*bg*
>
>I keep doing "such and such" and am still there. Go ahead, wimp, and learn to be
>a man. Melt your swingarm! ;-))
You may have a point... one view I could take was that he didn't do it and
he's dead. I think that might be some cross between sophistry and
anecdotal reasoning though... and at the end of the day, I'm still a
wimp:) How do they say wimp in German?
Take care,
Mike
(Biggest Wimp in All of RMD)
>
>
>
>Volker aka "Agent Orange"
>_
>Volker Bartheld < @: agentoNOSPAM@rrrDOTde >
>XR600R '94: "One man, one cylinder." (sold)
>CR250 '94: "Catch me - if you can... ;-)"
>KTM 620 LC4 SC '98: "Agent Orange"
>http://home.pages.de/~AgentO
Mike W.
Scott F
shape, so that it inserts into the end of the axle, with a shoulder that rests
on the end. That should prevent damage to the axle. It would also hold it in
place when you wail on it with the sledge. I think it is a real good idea to
lay it over and support the frame on the other side. As for heat, you could
buy a big fat soldering iron, and lay it in the axle ends. That will get
everything hot. Then you could quick cool the axle and hammer it out. A tiny
funnel would allow you to pour ice water through it. Then you should hit it
right away.
Good luck,
Scott F
Mike W.
wrote:
Great input Scott... but I have news to report.
I sprained my f*^king old man wrist yesterday banging on the axle (no
jokes please). Time for the dealer to have some of this fun. In a fit of
well-animated disgust, I pushed the trailer out of the back yard (OUCH!!!)
and hooked it up to the truck. I then dragged the no-rear-wheel (rear
shock is being unblown in NH) plutonium Honda up onto the goddam trailer..
OUCH^12. At this point, it is reasonable to say I was angry and taking
this whole thing quite personally. When it's personal, the sweet and
charming Mike that all of *you* know goes away and
Get-The-Last-Word-In-And-Then-Kill-The-Bastard Mike takes over. He is not
a nice man and I don't like it when he comes around. Bad Mike was
disgusted at this otherwise immaculately maintained over-weight whore of a
motorcycle would dare pull this crap so he went into the garage and got a
jackstand and ziptied the Big Drift to it, horizontally and then set this
next to the offending axle. He then got the big electric motor that has
been laying on the floor in the corner near the oil tank in the basement
for 30 years muttering something about being able to pay cash for a
hundred KTMs and why should the world give a small rat's ass about this
one 4000 lb paper weight that'll never have the good manners to carry it's
owner to one single trophy no matter how long he waits... (He's not a nice
man). Then he took the motor into his gloved hands... made one practice
windup and then as he directed the XR to "bite me", he SLAMMED the mother
into the drift... the jackstand and the bike with the bike and Bad Mike
left teetering on the rail of the trailer with many, many bad words
continuing to emerge. What a potty mouth.
What could be observed when all were back into stable positions and Bad
Mike finished rubbing the knee he tried to balance on the footpeg with was
that the axle was poking out of the left side of the bike, about 3/4".
This was a GOOD THING and usually Bad Mike will have nothing to do with
happy moments, but this time he stuck around and limped into the garage
and got the long skinny drift muttering more statements of the format "I
win Motherf*^ker" and "Nobody F*&ks with ME". The skinny drift got it out
the rest of the way and it was a little rusty but maybe saveable.. I'll
check again after Bad Mike leaves... He is going to drag the old girl off
the trailer and likely throw her into a heap in the corner so he can carry
the swingarm and axle off under a tree and eat them.
I'll imagine I will want to replace the dust seals.. they look a bit loose
and the bearings, which I haven't been able to get near yet. Should I go
with Honda stuff or does someone make a better product? It's about what's
best.. not $ at the moment. Where should I go if I want to be able to try
and ride this weekend?
THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO TOOK THE TIME TO HELP ME AND BAD MIKE!!
Good Mike
Wesley Grass
>
>
> I took a run at this earlier (minus the big heat). The bike had been put
> on it's left side earlier today and kept bathed in Liquid Wrench for the
> past maybe 36 hours. I began hitting it progressively harder with the
> brass drift and on the 4th or 5th hit, I think I sprained my f*%king
> wrist! I SO f&%king hate being OLD!! I'd last about 1.2 sec on a rink
> now... New plan to be formed when it stops hurting. Maybe I'll drag the
> thing to the dealer... where did I put that chain???
>
> Mike
Jeez, what a pussy! Beat the $%*^ outta that thing, and then go buy a
new
bike. You know you want that KTM ........ or was it the GasGas? Where's
that
Jim Cook guy? I was sure he'd offer up a new uncorroded bolt for you,
with
an EC300 attached to it .......... no extra charge.
Seriously though, trying to heat the cases *might* help, but trying to
cool the swingarm bolt while it's got a Mike/Dana fit in there will get
you nothing. The contact is just too ....... well .... intimate, for any
differential thermal expansion to occur.
The next step is to bore the bolt out. You'll need that lathe you've
been
talking about to make a special reamer, but since you're going to wind
up
making chips out of the head, may as well cut it off and see if the nut
will
get it started like Hoyt suggested. I like that idea. Besides, you
*need*
an excuse to buy that titanium axle, right?
Wes
smiles
news:3A08609D...@arraycomm.com...
><snip Wes's BS>
Hey dude when did you become "un-newsgroup-impared"???
s
Wesley Grass
Umm, actually, I have no idea. I've been checking every couple of weeks,
to see if it would let me post ....... no dice. Yesterday I started
playing with netscape as a newsreader, since they're retiring the last
of our SunOs servers
tomorrow, which means my beloved XRN is going away. It works. Damn, who
woulda thunk it? Pretty sure I tried this a couple of months ago, and
got error messages ........ at least, that's my story and I'm stickin'
to it.
This is almost sorta cool. I can actually delete whole blocks of text,
instead
of backspacing character by miserable character. Amazing, when did they
come up with that one?
Wes
Mike W.
wrote:
>smiles wrote:
>>
>> "Wesley Grass" <wes...@arraycomm.com> wrote in message
>> news:3A08609D...@arraycomm.com...
>> ><snip Wes's BS>
>>
>> Hey dude when did you become "un-newsgroup-impared"???
>>
>> s
>
>Umm, actually, I have no idea. I've been checking every couple of weeks,
>to see if it would let me post ....... no dice. Yesterday I started
>playing with netscape as a newsreader
>
>Wes
Get Agent Wes. I used Netscape for my first year or so in here and it
would crash my laptop almost every day at the end there. Agent has been
extremely civilized.
Mike W.
wrote:
>
>Jeez, what a pussy!
We established that on the road into Cow Mtn.
>Beat the $%*^ outta that thing, and then go buy a
>new
>bike.
By thing, you mean the axle I presume? Otherwise, you have a very bizarre
way of shopping....
>You know you want that KTM ........ or was it the GasGas? Where's
>that
>Jim Cook guy? I was sure he'd offer up a new uncorroded bolt for you,
>with
>an EC300 attached to it .......... no extra charge.
STOP TEMPTING ME!!!! I'm not made of stone, damn it!
>
>Seriously though, trying to heat the cases *might* help, but trying to
>cool the swingarm bolt while it's got a Mike/Dana fit in there will get
>you nothing.
It has exactly that Mike/Dana fit now... totally separated:(
>The next step is to bore the bolt out. You'll need that lathe you've
>been
>talking about
God, I'm glad you're back...
> special reamer,
Still talking bikes here... right?
> Besides, you
>*need*
>an excuse to buy that titanium axle, right?
Actually, the axle that came out can't weigh more than a lb already
anyway. It's light. Before I actually held one though, I'd have considered
it:)
>
>Wes
smiles
> This is almost sorta cool. I can actually delete whole blocks of text,
> instead
> of backspacing character by miserable character. Amazing, when did they
> come up with that one?
I first started being a newsgroup junkie on a VT100 ... eeek compared to now
it sucked ... you had to read each message and could not easily follow
threads ... and reply using a VI like editor ... it was tough ... one
liners and simple flames were the norm ... no posting nudes of Wes on a
GasGas with a feather boa ...
Mike W.
Assessing the carnage...
So far, things do not seem *too* bad but this is coming from the
perspective of someone who is doing this work for the first time (did I
really have to tell anyone *that*?).
The axle sure isn't bright metal anymore. The very tip of the axle which
was the recipient of the majority of the Private Ryan action is peened
over and blocks the nut from threading on. The threads seem fine. This
will be fixed with 15 sec on the grinding wheel.
The surface of the axle... well, wish I had more experience. The left and
right thirds where it touches the swingarm bearings seem fine. You can
feel a little bit of surface roughness (a very little) at the head end and
none at the thread end. However, in the center where it passes through
that hooha on the back of the motor, there is a band about 5/8" wide of
varying degrees of roughness around the bolt. At one location in this
band, this is some pitting that is quite obvious. It occupies about 1/4"
of the band's perimeter and it appears that maybe this is the material
that was broken apart when I hit it with the motor. I don't know if I
should accept this or not... or grind it out to eliminate any stress
risers. Should I bag it?
The two swing-arm bearings turn with some noticeable viscosity, but it is
smooth. I assume these will be ok. What would be the procedure on these
guys? Disassemble them? Flush them out? The dust seals, as I noted before
at all 4 points on the swingarm seem like they could be tighter to me.
Replace? I never hit them with enough heat to do any damage to em.
The biggest mystery is that big bump at the back of the motor that the
swingarm passes through. It doesn't feel like it has a bearing in it, but
the axle goes in through it ONLY with great pressing on my part. This is
the area that appeared to mate up to the axle as noted above. There is
nothing about the thing in the service manual that I can find so I'm not
sure what it does or how to take care of it. Any guidance here would be
appreciated.
In summary, my biggest concerns are the pits on the axle, the super-tight
fit of the axle into the hooha on the back of the motor, whether I should
replace the dust seals and what to do about the needle bearings in terms
of reviving them. Thanks for any help, and for all the GREAT help so far.
Mike
Mike W.
<kennedy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The two swing-arm bearings turn with some noticeable viscosity, but it
>is
>> smooth. I assume these will be ok. What would be the procedure on
>these
>> guys? Disassemble them? Flush them out?
>
>with rags. Look for rust and pitting. If any is present, you should
>replace them. These aren't cheap either. I just replace the shock
>bearing on my CR250, and the seals, bearing, and race totaled up to $40
>from Honda. There are aftermarket kits you could look into.
So no flushing or solvents... strictly rags. Right?
There is
>> nothing about the thing in the service manual that I can find so I'm
>not
>> sure what it does or how to take care of it. Any guidance here would
>be
>> appreciated.
>
>Clean up the bolt as well as you can and coat it with lots of grease.
>You might try to clean up the hole in the engine by spraying with WD-40
>then poking some rags through. I don't think the fit here is super
>critical, but you want to be able to get the bolt out next time.
It's pretty damn tight but I can't tell if that is proper or due to some
build up of corrosion. I've done the rag thing with WD 40 to clean it
out...
>
>What I would worry about here is that the bolt is so corroded that there
>will be play in the system after you get it back together. If
>everything feels tight, you did a good job.
It's not that corroded. No problems there at all. I only worry about
stress risers...cracks forming at these small pit features.
Dennis... Thank you!!! It looks like I'll be in Portland before the end of
the year. Dinner's on me!
Brian McGarry
"Mike W." wrote:
> Assessing the carnage...
>
> So far, things do not seem *too* bad but this is coming from the
> perspective of someone who is doing this work for the first time (did I
> really have to tell anyone *that*?).
How many miles, do you have on your Honda???
> The axle sure isn't bright metal anymore.
Not a problem in it self. It will never clean up like new. The cheapo plating
always pits and wears off.
> The very tip of the axle which
> was the recipient of the majority of the Private Ryan action is peened
> over and blocks the nut from threading on.
If you would of followed my advice, and beat on it, with the nut on, the
treads would still be OK.
> The threads seem fine. This
> will be fixed with 15 sec on the grinding wheel.
Good idea.
> The surface of the axle... well, wish I had more experience. The left and
> right thirds where it touches the swingarm bearings seem fine. You can
> feel a little bit of surface roughness (a very little) at the head end and
> none at the thread end.
Clean the bolt with WD40. Wipe off the WD40 and smear some grease on it
before assembly.
> However, in the center where it passes through
> that hooha on the back of the motor, there is a band about 5/8" wide of
> varying degrees of roughness around the bolt. At one location in this
> band, this is some pitting that is quite obvious. It occupies about 1/4"
> of the band's perimeter and it appears that maybe this is the material
> that was broken apart when I hit it with the motor.
You hit (it) what with the motor, You hit the motor with the hammer? Don't
understand that last sentence.
> I don't know if I
> should accept this or not... or grind it out to eliminate any stress
> risers. Should I bag it?
Are we talking about the bolt here?
> The two swing-arm bearings turn with some noticeable viscosity, but it is
> smooth. I assume these will be ok. What would be the procedure on these
> guys? Disassemble them? Flush them out?
Take a rag and clean out the old grease, assuming there is still old grease.
> The dust seals, as I noted before
> at all 4 points on the swingarm seem like they could be tighter to me.
> Replace? I never hit them with enough heat to do any damage to em.
Take them out, clean and smear grease all over them and reinstall.
>
> The biggest mystery is that big bump at the back of the motor that the
> swingarm passes through. It doesn't feel like it has a bearing in it, but
> the axle goes in through it ONLY with great pressing on my part. This is
> the area that appeared to mate up to the axle as noted above. There is
> nothing about the thing in the service manual that I can find so I'm not
> sure what it does or how to take care of it. Any guidance here would be
> appreciated.
This is just a brass(?) press in guide to hold the bolt static. The bolt
doesn't turn. This is the problem part, that held the bolt tight, resulting
in your present removal difficulties. Again, I try to smear as much grease
in there, to reduce future seizing problems. This is one of the reasons
it's recommended that all bearings should be regreased soon after purchasing
a new bike. The Japanese are stingy with grease. I, on the other hand, gob
it on everything that comes in contact with the bearings.
>
>
> In summary, my biggest concerns are the pits on the axle, the super-tight
> fit of the axle into the hooha on the back of the motor, whether I should
> replace the dust seals and what to do about the needle bearings in terms
> of reviving them. Thanks for any help, and for all the GREAT help so far.
Well, I believe I covered all these concerns, For review: Clean bolt
with WD40, wipe clean. Remove dust seals and clean. Clean bearings
with a rag. Pack bearings with new grease, working it into the rollers.
Smear grease on dust seals and reinstall.
Smear gobs of grease on bolt and and engine guides.
Match up swing arm to engine guide. Insert bolt. Wipe off the gobs of grease
that come out threaded side of bolt. Screw nut on and torque to
specifications.
Thanks for taking my mind off the TV coverage of the election.
I'll go back to bitting my nails, now. Come on Florida!!!!
dt...@my-deja.com
happens alot, as our "bad selves" surface in frustration with the whole
damn thing. No doubt, you'll increase the frequency of the bolts
maintenence from here on. If I could, I'd send you some of the 7" of
snow we got today to help cool you down.lol Good luck with rest of it.
Derek
In article <tplg0t4bfslp1pv3p...@4ax.com>,
> best.. not $ at the moment. Where should I go if I want to be able to
try
> and ride this weekend?
>
> THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO TOOK THE TIME TO HELP ME AND BAD MIKE!!
>
> Good Mike
>
> Mike W.
> 96 XR400
> 74 CZ250 Enduro
> BRC, AMA, NETRA
>
Dennis Kennedy
Mike W. <mwil...@deletethstoemailme.crocker.com> wrote:
>
> Assessing the carnage...
>
> So far, things do not seem *too* bad but this is coming from the
> perspective of someone who is doing this work for the first time (did
I
> really have to tell anyone *that*?).
>
which
> was the recipient of the majority of the Private Ryan action is peened
> will be fixed with 15 sec on the grinding wheel.
>
and
> right thirds where it touches the swingarm bearings seem fine. You can
> feel a little bit of surface roughness (a very little) at the head end
and
> that hooha on the back of the motor, there is a band about 5/8" wide
of
> varying degrees of roughness around the bolt. At one location in this
> band, this is some pitting that is quite obvious. It occupies about
1/4"
> of the band's perimeter and it appears that maybe this is the material
> should accept this or not... or grind it out to eliminate any stress
> risers. Should I bag it?
It sounds like it should be ok. Remember that the actual bearings don't
really ride on this bolt. There are races in between.
>
> The two swing-arm bearings turn with some noticeable viscosity, but it
is
> smooth. I assume these will be ok. What would be the procedure on
these
> guys? Disassemble them? Flush them out?
Yes, take the seals and races out and wipe them out as well as you can
with rags. Look for rust and pitting. If any is present, you should
replace them. These aren't cheap either. I just replace the shock
bearing on my CR250, and the seals, bearing, and race totaled up to $40
from Honda. There are aftermarket kits you could look into.
> The dust seals, as I noted before
> at all 4 points on the swingarm seem like they could be tighter to me.
> Replace? I never hit them with enough heat to do any damage to em.
Hard to say without looking at them. If they're damaged at all, you
should replace them. If your replacing the bearings anyway, replace the
seals as well.
>
> The biggest mystery is that big bump at the back of the motor that the
> swingarm passes through. It doesn't feel like it has a bearing in it,
but
> the axle goes in through it ONLY with great pressing on my part. This
is
> the area that appeared to mate up to the axle as noted above. There is
> nothing about the thing in the service manual that I can find so I'm
not
> sure what it does or how to take care of it. Any guidance here would
be
> appreciated.
Clean up the bolt as well as you can and coat it with lots of grease.
You might try to clean up the hole in the engine by spraying with WD-40
then poking some rags through. I don't think the fit here is super
critical, but you want to be able to get the bolt out next time.
>
> In summary, my biggest concerns are the pits on the axle, the
super-tight
> fit of the axle into the hooha on the back of the motor, whether I
should
> replace the dust seals and what to do about the needle bearings in
terms
> of reviving them. Thanks for any help, and for all the GREAT help so
far.
>
> Mike
>
What I would worry about here is that the bolt is so corroded that there
will be play in the system after you get it back together. If
everything feels tight, you did a good job.
--
Dennis Kennedy
kennedy_dennis at hotmail dot com
kennedy at NOSPAMrogueNOSPAMwave dot com
'96 VFR750, '98 XR400, '99 CR250
Tim H.
is loaded in shear only, and sees no cyclic loading in tension or any
significant bending loads since it is restrained by the frame rails and
apparently tightly held by the cases in the center. Clean it up the best
you can (got a wire wheel on the other end of that bench grinder?),
clean up the threads as you have mentioned, and grease it up well before
reinserting.
For the hassle you've just been through, why even think about reusing
seals? New seals and bearings are relatively cheap peace of mind.
"Mike W." wrote:
>
> Assessing the carnage...
>
> So far, things do not seem *too* bad but this is coming from the
> perspective of someone who is doing this work for the first time (did I
> really have to tell anyone *that*?).
>
> The axle sure isn't bright metal anymore. The very tip of the axle which
> was the recipient of the majority of the Private Ryan action is peened
> over and blocks the nut from threading on. The threads seem fine. This
> will be fixed with 15 sec on the grinding wheel.
>
> The surface of the axle... well, wish I had more experience. The left and
> right thirds where it touches the swingarm bearings seem fine. You can
> feel a little bit of surface roughness (a very little) at the head end and
> none at the thread end. However, in the center where it passes through
> that hooha on the back of the motor, there is a band about 5/8" wide of
> varying degrees of roughness around the bolt. At one location in this
> band, this is some pitting that is quite obvious. It occupies about 1/4"
> of the band's perimeter and it appears that maybe this is the material
> that was broken apart when I hit it with the motor. I don't know if I
> should accept this or not... or grind it out to eliminate any stress
> risers. Should I bag it?
>
> The two swing-arm bearings turn with some noticeable viscosity, but it is
> smooth. I assume these will be ok. What would be the procedure on these
> guys? Disassemble them? Flush them out? The dust seals, as I noted before
> at all 4 points on the swingarm seem like they could be tighter to me.
> Replace? I never hit them with enough heat to do any damage to em.
>
> The biggest mystery is that big bump at the back of the motor that the
> swingarm passes through. It doesn't feel like it has a bearing in it, but
> the axle goes in through it ONLY with great pressing on my part. This is
> the area that appeared to mate up to the axle as noted above. There is
> nothing about the thing in the service manual that I can find so I'm not
> sure what it does or how to take care of it. Any guidance here would be
> appreciated.
>
> In summary, my biggest concerns are the pits on the axle, the super-tight
> fit of the axle into the hooha on the back of the motor, whether I should
> replace the dust seals and what to do about the needle bearings in terms
> of reviving them. Thanks for any help, and for all the GREAT help so far.
>
> Mike
>
Dennis Kennedy
Mike W. <mwil...@deletethstoemailme.crocker.com> wrote:
>
> So no flushing or solvents... strictly rags. Right?
This point is debatable. I had a friend who is a front end mechanic and
he told me never to use solvent on bearings. The solvent will leave a
residue which will contaminate the grease. I never had any trouble
before I heard this, but, nevertheless, have followed his advice since
and have only used rags or paper towels.
I'm actually getting ready to do the linkage and swingarm on both the
XRs tonight or tomorrow. It's such a PITA, but something that has to be
done. I really wish Honda wouldn't have done away with all the zerks on
the linkage.
> Mike
>
> Mike W.
> 96 XR400
> 74 CZ250 Enduro
> BRC, AMA, NETRA
>
--
MXOldtimer
>>is
>>> smooth. I assume these will be ok. What would be the procedure on
>>these
>>> guys?
Since you have it this far you might want to replace the bearing , if you do
before going to a dealer take your bearing to a bearing dist. thats what I do,
the cost is usally half the cost of a bike shop.
>Dennis... Thank you!!! It looks like I'll be in Portland before the end of
>the year. Dinner's on me!
If you coming a the end of the year make it Jan. 1 and race the hangover
scrambles ,last year it was at Washougal not sure on this year ? The hangover
is a blast , well last year was a nightmare for me LOLOLOL
Doug
Peter Patton
salvage your bolt. Just take some fine sandpaper to it. You will need to
order the rest of the parts....whatever bearings and seals that are
damaged. I would just go with your dealer. If you want to ride by this
weekend you will have to do the overnight thing, assuming none of the
parts are on backorder. Careful in removing the swingarm and linkage
bearings. If they are rusted, they are also brittle. You definitely
DON'T want them to get trashed further INSIDE the race while removing
them. I had a linkage bolt come loose on me (discovered later of course)
and, upon removal, found the circlip and bearing were smashed together
forming one piece. That was a bear to get out!
Peter
> best.. not $ at the moment. Where should I go if I want to be able to try
> and ride this weekend?
>
> THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO TOOK THE TIME TO HELP ME AND BAD MIKE!!
>
> Good Mike
>
> Mike W.
> 96 XR400
> 74 CZ250 Enduro
> BRC, AMA, NETRA
--
http://www.minnesotamotocross.com
Pe...@minnesotamotocross.com
Motocross Rules!!
Peter 3 # 524
Peter # 739
Peter Patton
overnight and them rubbing the bad ones on sandpaper. As far as the pits
in your bolt, I wouldn't worry about them. Sanding the bolt and cleaning
up the races and needles should take care of the fit problem you are
having. Not sure if you were asking this, but not, there are no bearings
of anything else in the engine bolt hole. If it is still a too tight of
fit after cleaning and sanding the bolt and bearings, I would (probably
should do this anyway) take some WD and soak/spray that engine bolt
hole. Wouldn't even hurt to wrap some sandpaper around something of
smaller diameter that your hole and go in there and sand all the burrs
off. Lube everything up really good with wheel bearing grease and you
shouldn't have any problem getting it out again later. Nice thing about
SA bearings and seals is that, unlike forks and engine bearings and
seals, they don't need to be perfect to still work. Personally, if you
are planning to keep the bike a while, I would order ALL new parts
(including the bolt and nut). I would definitely go ahead and put it
back together and ride it while you are waiting for the parts though.
Don't forget to check you linkage bearings, seals, bolts while you have
it apart. They, in all likelihood, will need some attention too.
Peter
"Mike W." wrote:
>
> Assessing the carnage...
>
> So far, things do not seem *too* bad but this is coming from the
> perspective of someone who is doing this work for the first time (did I
> really have to tell anyone *that*?).
>
> The axle sure isn't bright metal anymore. The very tip of the axle which
> was the recipient of the majority of the Private Ryan action is peened
> over and blocks the nut from threading on. The threads seem fine. This
> will be fixed with 15 sec on the grinding wheel.
>
> The surface of the axle... well, wish I had more experience. The left and
> right thirds where it touches the swingarm bearings seem fine. You can
> feel a little bit of surface roughness (a very little) at the head end and
> none at the thread end. However, in the center where it passes through
> that hooha on the back of the motor, there is a band about 5/8" wide of
> varying degrees of roughness around the bolt. At one location in this
> band, this is some pitting that is quite obvious. It occupies about 1/4"
> of the band's perimeter and it appears that maybe this is the material
> that was broken apart when I hit it with the motor. I don't know if I
> should accept this or not... or grind it out to eliminate any stress
> risers. Should I bag it?
>
> The two swing-arm bearings turn with some noticeable viscosity, but it is
> smooth. I assume these will be ok. What would be the procedure on these
> guys? Disassemble them? Flush them out? The dust seals, as I noted before
> at all 4 points on the swingarm seem like they could be tighter to me.
> Replace? I never hit them with enough heat to do any damage to em.
>
> The biggest mystery is that big bump at the back of the motor that the
> swingarm passes through. It doesn't feel like it has a bearing in it, but
> the axle goes in through it ONLY with great pressing on my part. This is
> the area that appeared to mate up to the axle as noted above. There is
> nothing about the thing in the service manual that I can find so I'm not
> sure what it does or how to take care of it. Any guidance here would be
> appreciated.
>
> In summary, my biggest concerns are the pits on the axle, the super-tight
> fit of the axle into the hooha on the back of the motor, whether I should
> replace the dust seals and what to do about the needle bearings in terms
> of reviving them. Thanks for any help, and for all the GREAT help so far.
>
Scott F
about the Pivot Works bearing kits. It could save you time and money.
Scott F
Scott F
rusted to your axle. It would be wise to clean out the ID of these bushings.
You can use a small flapper wheel, a tiny Dremel wire wheel, or a wooden dowel
or socket with a bit a sandpaper wrapped around it.
It sounds like you should order a new axle if it's not too expensive. It will
be easy to replace later.
Scott F
Jeff Deeney
: The engine castings have steel bushing inserts in each side. They apparently
: rusted to your axle. It would be wise to clean out the ID of these bushings.
: You can use a small flapper wheel, a tiny Dremel wire wheel, or a wooden dowel
: or socket with a bit a sandpaper wrapped around it.
I coat my axles with anti-seize compound during assembly. This seems to
prevent the rust problems. I'm also told it works well to coat the base
of the valve stem on the tubes to prevent the washer rusting away.
-Jeffrey Deeney- DoD#0498 NCTR UTMA BRC COHVCO AMA
j...@fc.hp.com '99 ATK 260LQ-Stink Wheels '94 XR650L-DreamSickle
We don't stop riding because we get old, we get old because we stop riding.
roost4u
>Dennis... Thank you!!! It looks like I'll be in Portland before the end of
>the year. Dinner's on me!
>
>Mike
>
>Mike W.
>96 XR400
>74 CZ250 Enduro
>BRC, AMA, NETRA
Hey! I was there for moral support. Would that get me a beer?
Rick
Riding in the rain sucks!
93 KX250 (me)
00 KX250 (me too)
92 XR100 (wife)
Mike W.
>Since you have it this far you might want to replace the bearing , if you do
>before going to a dealer take your bearing to a bearing dist. thats what I do,
>the cost is usally half the cost of a bike shop.
Well, I've looked at the bearings and while I'm not expert, I cant find a
single feature I would identify with any sort of degradation. I dodged the
bullet this time. Still... that fricking thing inside the engine hooha
that grabs at the bolt is bugging me a bit.
>
>
>>Dennis... Thank you!!! It looks like I'll be in Portland before the end of
>>the year. Dinner's on me!
>
> If you coming a the end of the year make it Jan. 1 and race the hangover
>scrambles ,last year it was at Washougal not sure on this year ? The hangover
>is a blast , well last year was a nightmare for me LOLOLOL
Sounds like a great time but on New Years Eve, my daughter and I will be
shooting silly string at the cat, firing off cap guys, playing air hockey
and watching the Three Stooges. Can't top that:)
Mike
> Doug
Mike W.
>
>Hey! I was there for moral support. Would that get me a beer?
>
Hell yea... go to the ice box and pull a frosty one out on me:)
Mike
(thank you for the moral support!)
Mike W.
>I wouldn't worry too much about the pitting in that area. The pivot bolt
>is loaded in shear only, and sees no cyclic loading in tension or any
>significant bending loads since it is restrained by the frame rails and
>apparently tightly held by the cases in the center. Clean it up the best
>you can (got a wire wheel on the other end of that bench grinder?),
>clean up the threads as you have mentioned, and grease it up well before
>reinserting.
All that is now done and the sharp edges of the pitted area are all nice
and smooth. Still.. I'll be running a mag particle check on it. I used to
have a business that performed various non-destructive tests to aerospace
parts and I'll have this done by the guys I sold out to. It's just that I
was programmed to train inspectors to be scared shitless of that sort of
surface feature and I recall occasionally finding small surface and
subsurface cracks near those sorts of things. Just can't warm up to the
idea of that bold busting at the wrong time:)
>For the hassle you've just been through, why even think about reusing
>seals? New seals and bearings are relatively cheap peace of mind.
>
I'll probably do that over the winter now. Goal #1 now is get riding for
the weekend!
Thanks again for all your help Tim!
Mike W.
wrote:
>
>How many miles, do you have on your Honda???
>
The spreadsheet says 2200 miles BUT it doesn't include the distance
traveled falling to the side:)
>> The surface of the axle... well, wish I had more experience. The left and
>> right thirds where it touches the swingarm bearings seem fine. You can
>> feel a little bit of surface roughness (a very little) at the head end and
>> none at the thread end.
>
>Clean the bolt with WD40. Wipe off the WD40 and smear some grease on it
>before assembly.
Used the wire wheel to clean it up and it looks pretty good.
>
>> However, in the center where it passes through
>> that hooha on the back of the motor, there is a band about 5/8" wide of
>> varying degrees of roughness around the bolt. At one location in this
>> band, this is some pitting that is quite obvious. It occupies about 1/4"
>> of the band's perimeter and it appears that maybe this is the material
>> that was broken apart when I hit it with the motor.
>
>You hit (it) what with the motor, You hit the motor with the hammer? Don't
>understand that last sentence.
I escalated from hammers to using an electric motor that weighed maybe 35
lbs or so. I knocked the bike over on the first hit, and because of the
weight of the motor, went down myself on top of the bike. Ugly, but it got
the axle out!
>
>> I don't know if I
>> should accept this or not... or grind it out to eliminate any stress
>> risers. Should I bag it?
>
>Are we talking about the bolt here?
The question was should I accept the pitting or get a new bolt.. I'll make
my mind up after I run a magnetic particle test on it.
>>
>> The biggest mystery is that big bump at the back of the motor that the
>> swingarm passes through. It doesn't feel like it has a bearing in it, but
>> the axle goes in through it ONLY with great pressing on my part. This is
>> the area that appeared to mate up to the axle as noted above. There is
>> nothing about the thing in the service manual that I can find so I'm not
>> sure what it does or how to take care of it. Any guidance here would be
>> appreciated.
>
>This is just a brass(?) press in guide to hold the bolt static. The bolt
>doesn't turn. This is the problem part, that held the bolt tight, resulting
>in your present removal difficulties. Again, I try to smear as much grease
>in there, to reduce future seizing problems. This is one of the reasons
>it's recommended that all bearings should be regreased soon after purchasing
>a new bike. The Japanese are stingy with grease. I, on the other hand, gob
>it on everything that comes in contact with the bearings.
This is enlightening... I couldn't understand why it was such a tight fit
in there. Thank you!
>Thanks for taking my mind off the TV coverage of the election.
Didn't last long though... did it? <s>
>I'll go back to bitting my nails, now. Come on Florida!!!!
>
Ditto!
Mike W.
<Pe...@minnesotamotocross.com> wrote:
>Mike, I've gotten away with removing the needles and soading them in DW
>
Peter... thank you for all the good help on this! Sounds like you have had
some practice at the one:)
Mike W.
wrote:
>The engine castings have steel bushing inserts in each side. They apparently
>rusted to your axle. It would be wise to clean out the ID of these bushings.
>You can use a small flapper wheel, a tiny Dremel wire wheel, or a wooden dowel
>or socket with a bit a sandpaper wrapped around it.
I'll never get a Dremel in there with the engine still in the frame but
I'll see if there's maybe an extender to get the wheel in through the
frame. Thanks for all your assistance Scott!!
Mike W.
nos...@thank.you@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE (Jeff Deeney) wrote:
>
>I coat my axles with anti-seize compound during assembly. This seems to
>prevent the rust problems. I'm also told it works well to coat the base
>of the valve stem on the tubes to prevent the washer rusting away.
>
Isn't anti-sieze to be kept well away from bearings?
MXOldtimer
>lbs or so. I knocked the bike over on the first hit, and because of the
>weight of the motor, went down myself on top of the bike. Ugly, but it got
>the axle out!
You should have set up a Video , that would have been a great one to see
LOLOLOLOL I just keep trying to picture this in my head LOLOLOL
Doug
Mike W.
Just ride behind me... you see the same kind of stuff:) I wrote it up at:
http://x57.deja.com/threadmsg_ct.xp?AN=690915635.1&mhitnum=40&CONTEXT=973750360.1779105794
Mike
(LOL... someone riding *behind* ME... :)
>
> Doug
Brian McGarry
"Mike W." wrote:
>
> The question was should I accept the pitting or get a new bolt.. I'll make
> my mind up after I run a magnetic particle test on it.
Ok Mike come clean, do you clean your bike with a tooth brush?
I got a minds eye image of you, trying to figure where to store
your bike cleaning tooth brush, so you can easily access it during rest stops.
Hoyt McKagen
> > with Honda stuff or does someone make a better product?
See the SA and Clamps page of Best MC, URL in tagline. I make custom
bronze bushings for any bike. Installed, a set for your bike would be I
think $90. These will improve your handling in a way you've never felt
before. There are references on the site describing the typical results,
and there's a page under that giving some more info on SA bearings in
general.
Drop me a note off. NG if you're interested. Satisfaction is asssured or
100% money-back.
Regards,
Hoyt McKagen
Belfab CNC - http://www.freeyellow.com/members/belfab/belfab.html
Best MC Repair - http://www.freeyellow.com/members/batwings/best.html
Camping/Caving - http://www.freeyellow.com/members/batwings/caving.html
Animals have fleas and ticks but I have minions
David Jones
<batwin...@NOTi-plus.net> wrote:
>> > and the bearings, which I haven't been able to get near yet. Should I go
>> > with Honda stuff or does someone make a better product?
>
>See the SA and Clamps page of Best MC, URL in tagline. I make custom
>bronze bushings for any bike. Installed, a set for your bike would be I
>think $90. These will improve your handling in a way you've never felt
<snip>
Uh oh, you didn't cross post this to the whiners over on rec.moto did
you Hoyt? <G>
>Regards,
>
>Hoyt McKagen
David Y2KTM2E
Email: djo...@lsidaho.com
http://www.motosports-boise.com/rmd
"The Very Unofficial RMD Page"
Jeff Deeney
: Isn't anti-sieze to be kept well away from bearings?
I don't think I'd pack my bearings with the stuff, but I never heard of
it causing problems with bearings.
Mike W.
wrote:
>
>
>"Mike W." wrote:
>
>>
>> The question was should I accept the pitting or get a new bolt.. I'll make
>> my mind up after I run a magnetic particle test on it.
>
>Ok Mike come clean, do you clean your bike with a tooth brush?
>I got a minds eye image of you, trying to figure where to store
>your bike cleaning tooth brush, so you can easily access it during rest stops.
>
I knew I might catch some crap from certain people when I wrote that:)
However, it's a little different in my case. A *long* time ago, I used to
be around mag particle, fluorescent penetrant, roadiographical and other
types of testing every day and certified a lot of local inspectors. I have
super easy access to this stuff and it's a good reason to get a cup of
coffee with old friends... see if I can work the new mag machines... see
what I remember about setting up the test and interpreting the
indications, if there are any, and get smelling like mag juice for an
afternoon:) 90% field trip and 10% test maybe.
Now if you want overkill, you need to check out my photography life. I
took 3 old Speed Graphics and made one real nice one out of them. A
Graphic has separate front & rear shutters with lots of tiny little
springs that I'm sure I could not see now that I'm old. But when I was
done, I set up one of these $90,000 test machines that my company sells to
measure time-intervals down to a few hundred femto-seconds and using a
mag-lite and a photo-transistor, I tested all the shutter speeds for
accuracy and repeatability. From about 8 pm until about 5 am if I recall.
I included a couple of modern cameras too so I could see how good all this
fancy modern crap was. They couldn't come close to my 50 year old
Graphic.. Old stuff is the best stuff.
Anyway, since I'm more a "journey" type than a "get-there" type, some of
the overkill is just pleasant ways to spend my time.
To answer your question though, a tooth-brush with all but one cluster of
bristles removed. It lets you really focus on just the area you want to
clean. It's sort of "Still-Cleaning" with just a *tiny* bit of motion.
Mike W.
Thank you much for bringing it to my attention Hoyt. I will definitely
look into it.
Mike
On Thu, 09 Nov 2000 09:30:45 -0800, Hoyt McKagen
<batwin...@NOTi-plus.net> wrote:
>> > and the bearings, which I haven't been able to get near yet. Should I go
>> > with Honda stuff or does someone make a better product?
>
>See the SA and Clamps page of Best MC, URL in tagline. I make custom
>bronze bushings for any bike. Installed, a set for your bike would be I
>think $90. These will improve your handling in a way you've never felt
>before. There are references on the site describing the typical results,
>and there's a page under that giving some more info on SA bearings in
>general.
>
>Drop me a note off. NG if you're interested. Satisfaction is asssured or
>100% money-back.
>
>Regards,
>
>Hoyt McKagen
>
>
>Belfab CNC - http://www.freeyellow.com/members/belfab/belfab.html
>Best MC Repair - http://www.freeyellow.com/members/batwings/best.html
>Camping/Caving - http://www.freeyellow.com/members/batwings/caving.html
> Animals have fleas and ticks but I have minions
>
Mike W.
DirtCrashr
>that grabs at the bolt is bugging me a bit.
>
>
Could it be some kind of grommet thingy to keep bolt-mung out of the engine
cases?
-k '97ktm300mxc '95Cb1000
D-36, BRC, CORVA, COHVCO, HHORA, & AMA
IRKurt
Please see exhibit "A" and "B" below. They are separate posts.
Which Mike wrote exhibit "A" (engine hooha) and which (photo- transister light
sensing femto-seconds) wrote exhibit "B".
Which one obeys the restraining order and which one is currently working on
your bike?
Which one, A or B, uses the modifed toothbrush for cleaning? Which one gives
away free beer?
Which Mike responds today? :^)
Kurt -
99 KX250
Exhibit "A" Mike Says:
______________________________________________________________
Wesley Grass
Go to your local gunshop, before the recount is done in FL, and buy a
rod and brush for a 12 gauge.
Wes
Wesley Grass
>
>
> Sounds like a great time but on New Years Eve, my daughter and I will be
> shooting silly string at the cat, firing off cap guys, playing air hockey
> and watching the Three Stooges. Can't top that:)
Damn, Dana called me and asked what I was doing on the 31st, and I told
her I didn't have any plans. And now this ....... damn, damn, damn.
Wes
Wesley Grass
Hmm, funny you should mention "head", after Mike says he got the axle
out by going down on his bike. Damn, that must be one hell of a pair of
lips he's got.
Wes
Mike W.
wrote:
>Go to your local gunshop, before the recount is done in FL, and buy a
>rod and brush for a 12 gauge.
Well, if I'm going to have the brush, shouldn't I get the 12 gauge too so
I have something to use it on after the bike is together? Sometimes I
don't think you're thinking there Wes... <s>
Mike
As long as we're talking about implements of destruction, jc comes to
mind... is that asswipe still married? <s>
>
>Wes
Mike W.
wrote:
She's yours. You know... my motivation to make this sacrifice was directly
inspired by you. I figure you got us the first 246 electoral votes with
some credit left over for four years from now:)
Mike
Brian McGarry
IRKurt wrote:
> Which one, A or B, uses the modifed toothbrush for cleaning? Which one gives
> away free beer?
>
> Which Mike responds today? :^)
Interesting Kurt, If Algore wins, I plan on applying for a government research
grant,
to continue my work. Every left handed dirt biker should consider voting
democratic
in future elections, so I can continue working on your behalf. This life value
research is on the verge of a major breakthrough. Please support me, if
not for yourself, do it for the children.
Overview and current information:
Schizodirtbikephrenia is a psychosis characterized by personality and thought
disorganization, it affects 88.4654 percent of all left brain/left hand Dirt
Bikers. Schizodirtbikephrenia occupy more mental hospital beds than patients with
any
other single diagnosis erratic Dirt Biker behavior deviants.
Patients have "positive" symptoms such as hallucinations and delusions, and
"negative" symptoms such as ego inflation, excess control personas, expressionless
or lack of humor, lack of admitting faults and thinking deficits such as narrowed
totalerance to Off Topic posts. The disorder crosses lines of gender, ethnicity
and intelligence. Its causes are unknown, but the disorder has been associated
with
utero brain damage (blunt trauma with or with out snell rated helmets) and a
genetic factor conflict, with some not fully understood correlation between left
brain/left handed riders twisting right handed manual throttle controls.. The term
schizodirtbikerphrenia was coined by RMDgod, and DRN moderators when they noticed
their left brain (sinister) was crossed wired to their left (sinister) hand. The
normal Left Brain/Right Hand Dirt Bikers account for only .0087 per cent of all
diagnosed cases of shizodirtbikephrenia. The word refers to a split between the
subjective feeling, or affect, of wanting to control with the Left sinister hand
and brain the thought being experienced, by the right hand throttle.
Schizodirtbikephrenia is frequently misunderstood as "split personality" by
laymen. The split in schizodirtbikephrenia refers to the discrepancy between
thinking and feelings
resulting in sinister behavior deviants and frequent ego inflated visions of
grander.
Many advanced cases of schizodirtbikephrenia first symptoms appeared as the
uncontrollable tendencies to answer the most mundane simplistic technical dirt
bike questions repeatedly. This tendency apparently fulfills there self perceived
visions of grander. Secondary symptoms before institutionalizing in more advance
cases
results in fulfilling there life's goal and become DRN forum moderators.
>
>
Mike W.
Good Lord... you're still on the up-slope on the Algernon curve! How many
of these think pieces are you going to push out before the mouse dies?
On 09 Nov 2000 19:18:17 GMT, irk...@aol.comremove (IRKurt) wrote:
>Mike:
>
>Please see exhibit "A" and "B" below. They are separate posts.
>
>Which Mike wrote exhibit "A" (engine hooha) and which (photo- transister light
>sensing femto-seconds) wrote exhibit "B".
I left out the part that I own the patents on the time thingy... don't I
get any credit for know that the thing connected to the hooha was an
engine? It was an engine wasn't it?
>
>Which one obeys the restraining order
This is the internet Dude... we ALL obey them... really. <snick>
>and which one is currently working on
>your bike?
Good Mike is in the building... he will be working on it after the pizza
gets here for the rest of the night. Maybe Margaret will help a little....
>
>Which one, A or B, uses the modifed toothbrush for cleaning?
You left a few out... the answer is T
>Which one gives
>away free beer?
I think all of us give away free beer to get others to like us. Is it
working yet?
>
>Which Mike responds today? :^)
Sorry... got a phone call there... the mouse isn't looking too good. I'll
be back to you on the helmet thing in a few days...
Mike A,B and T.
>
>Kurt -
>99 KX250
>
>
>Exhibit "A" Mike Says:
>
>>> Still... that fricking thing inside the engine hooha
>>>that grabs at the bolt is bugging me a bit.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Could it be some kind of grommet thingy to keep bolt-mung out of the engine
>>cases?
>>
>>
>>-k '97ktm300mxc '95Cb1000
>>D-36, BRC, CORVA, COHVCO, HHORA, & AMA
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Exhibit "B" Mike Says:
>
>Now if you want overkill, you need to check out my photography life. I
>took 3 old Speed Graphics and made one real nice one out of them. A
>Graphic has separate front & rear shutters with lots of tiny little
>springs that I'm sure I could not see now that I'm old. But when I was
>done, I set up one of these $90,000 test machines that my company sells to
>measure time-intervals down to a few hundred femto-seconds and using a
>mag-lite and a photo-transistor, I tested all the shutter speeds for
>accuracy and repeatability. From about 8 pm until about 5 am if I recall.
>I included a couple of modern cameras too so I could see how good all this
>fancy modern crap was. They couldn't come close to my 50 year old
>Graphic.. Old stuff is the best stuff.
Mike W.
Mike W.
wrote:
>Hmm, funny you should mention "head", after Mike says he got the axle
>out by going down on his bike. Damn, that must be one hell of a pair of
>lips he's got.
>
>Wes
Did you ever see that Northern Exposure when they were all waiting for
"the ice to break"? Hang in there dude... you'll get your thoughts back
someday:) (Pony!! The man is *suffering*!!!!)
-jc
> Wesley Grass wrote:
> >"Mike W." wrote:
> >> Scott F wrote:
> >>
> >> >The engine castings have steel bushing inserts in each side. They
apparently
> >> >rusted to your axle. It would be wise to clean out the ID of these
bushings.
> >> >You can use a small flapper wheel, a tiny Dremel wire wheel, or a
wooden dowel
> >> >or socket with a bit a sandpaper wrapped around it.
> >>
> >> I'll never get a Dremel in there with the engine still in the frame but
> >> I'll see if there's maybe an extender to get the wheel in through the
> >> frame. Thanks for all your assistance Scott!!
> >
> >rod and brush for a 12 gauge.
>
> Well, if I'm going to have the brush, shouldn't I get the 12 gauge too so
> I have something to use it on after the bike is together? Sometimes I
> don't think you're thinking there Wes... <s>
>
> mind... is that asswipe still married? <s>
Always trying to pick a fight .... sheesh!
To answer your question(s) .... yes, I'm still married and my implement is
functioning quite nicely (not that it's any of your business). No
glucosamine here.
obmoto: you can likely get a Dremel tool in there if you buy the snake
attachment thingy. It should be small enough to get into the hole and
smooth it up if you aim it down the normal path of the axle.
Wes' suggestion of the 12 ga brush is an excellent one .... buy a swab or
two and use them to do a final clean and grease on the hoohaa.
--
- Jeff
- B.A.W. 99 KX250
.................................. then again, what do I know.
- To reply via email use: campbell at juniper dot net
Wesley Grass
>
> Mike W. <mwil...@deletethstoemailme.crocker.com> wrote
>
> > >Go to your local gunshop, before the recount is done in FL, and buy a
> > >rod and brush for a 12 gauge.
> >
> > Well, if I'm going to have the brush, shouldn't I get the 12 gauge too so
> > I have something to use it on after the bike is together? Sometimes I
> > don't think you're thinking there Wes... <s>
Huh? I just assumed you *already* had a 12 gauge (doesn't everybody?),
but then if you did you'd most likely already have a brush, and
.......... I guess you're right, I'm not thinking here, or there, or
wherever it is I'm supposed to be thinking (down there?)
> Wes' suggestion of the 12 ga brush is an excellent one .... buy a swab or
> two and use them to do a final clean and grease on the hoohaa.
Yeah, I suppose the swabs would be OK for greasing his hoohaa, but it'd
be best to keep a bronze brush out of there. Man, that's gotta hurt.
Besides, from what I hear, he's more a 410 kind of guy.
Wes
Pony
trying to get me to get you off of the hook<g>. Go see if zippie or
rmdgod will sip outta his camelback, maybe that poser guy from a couple
of weeks back will do it... yeah there is an idea... :-P)
"Mike W." wrote:
>
>
> Did you ever see that Northern Exposure when they were all waiting for
> "the ice to break"? Hang in there dude... you'll get your thoughts back
> someday:) (Pony!! The man is *suffering*!!!!)
>
> Mike
>
> Mike W.
> 96 XR400
> 74 CZ250 Enduro
> BRC, AMA, NETRA
--
Pony www.angelfire.com/mi2/ponystuff
Tiffany (Kid), Jamie (Pony), Ragdoll (Dog),
Lyric (Bird), Heero, Duo, Z. Marquis and Benjamin
(Bunnies), HRH The Lady Lash Wippletree, Mercedes
Beanz, and sometimes Amber (Cats) and Trace (Boyfriend)
Brian McGarry
"Mike W." wrote:
>
> Did you ever see that Northern Exposure when they were all waiting for
> "the ice to break"? Hang in there dude... you'll get your thoughts back
> someday:) (Pony!! The man is *suffering*!!!!)
>
> Mike
So Mike, you give up on your completely unfulfilled fantasy of
getting near Dana's squeeze box for a Bush win. Now your
smok'in your keyboard shinning for pony. What kind of sacrifice
is that? Besides everyone knows, Wes is saving himself for the
Shetland Babe.
Mike W.
>Oh, oh, H-Mike is emerging. Peanut butter's gone. I losing IQ points
>quickly... Gotta go to the lab fer more before I can pick up on the helmet
>thing... ;^)
Hurry Dude... You're turning into a Democrat!
>
>Cheers,
>Kurt
Mike W.
>Hey, I LOVED that show, and that was one of my favorite episodes. (Stop
>trying to get me to get you off of the hook<g>. Go see if zippie or
>rmdgod will sip outta his camelback, maybe that poser guy from a couple
>of weeks back will do it... yeah there is an idea... :-P)
>
Brilliant writing... I wish it was still on. As for our buddy Wes, I don't
think I'm still on the hook. My title indicated, at best, a transient
obligation... I'm not worried about getting anyone else to drink out of
his Camelbak (though I'm not riding in the summer anymore with ANYONE).
Mike
Tim H.
"Mike W." wrote:
>
> On Wed, 8 Nov 2000 01:20:58 GMT, "Tim H." <don'tmailme@work> wrote:
>
> >I wouldn't worry too much about the pitting in that area. The pivot bolt
> ><snip my previous comments>
> All that is now done and the sharp edges of the pitted area are all nice
> and smooth. Still.. I'll be running a mag particle check on it. I used to
> have a business that performed various non-destructive tests to aerospace
> parts and I'll have this done by the guys I sold out to. It's just that I
> was programmed to train inspectors to be scared shitless of that sort of
> surface feature and I recall occasionally finding small surface and
> subsurface cracks near those sorts of things. Just can't warm up to the
> idea of that bold busting at the wrong time:)
I hear you. I work in the commercial avaition field, and spend my days
designing repairs for damaged parts and assemblies. There is an
ingrained element of paranoia about using parts with known flaws that
comes with the job. On the other hand, I don't remember that last time I
pulled a swingarm pivot that didn't have pitting in the area you
describe (except for the obligatory new bike tear downs), and I haven't
broken a swingarm pivot in 30 years of bike abuse. Still, if you have
the resources to inspect it, why not?
>
> >For the hassle you've just been through, why even think about reusing
> >seals? New seals and bearings are relatively cheap peace of mind.
> >
>
> I'll probably do that over the winter now. Goal #1 now is get riding for
> the weekend!
>
> Thanks again for all your help Tim!
>
> Mike
>
You're welcome. Have a great ride!
Tim
IRKurt
<mwil...@deletethstoemailme.crocker.com> writes:
>Good Lord... you're still on the up-slope on the Algernon curve! How many
>of these think pieces are you going to push out before the mouse dies?
I got into the laced peanut butter down in the lab, my bike is stowed and I
need distraction from the morons of Florida. Enhancement has helped me to more
easily identify several distinguishable "Mike patterns."
>>Which Mike wrote exhibit "A" (engine hooha) and which (photo- transister
>light
>>sensing femto-seconds) wrote exhibit "B".
>
>I left out the part that I own the patents on the time thingy...
I would only expect that you would hold a patent to the errr... (pass the
peanut butter)... "femto timing thing."
> don't I
>get any credit for know that the thing connected to the hooha was an
>engine? It was an engine wasn't it?
I think... Laced peanut butter wearing off... you did not call it "motor,"
which was the 35lb. electrically powered thingy used as a hammer. Credit, yes.
Unless this is "H" Mike, then all you get is crap. :^)
>>Which one obeys the restraining order
>
>This is the internet Dude... we ALL obey them... really. <snick>
Aye.
>
>
>>and which one is currently working on
>>your bike?
>
>Good Mike is in the building... he will be working on it after the pizza
>gets here for the rest of the night. Maybe Margaret will help a little....
Certainly. She will keep Good Mike around to finish the job. Daughters are
good at that. (I have two of them).
>>Which one, A or B, uses the modifed toothbrush for cleaning?
>
>You left a few out... the answer is T
Good call. I oversimplified.
>>Which one gives
>>away free beer?
>
>I think all of us give away free beer to get others to like us. Is it
>working yet?
Are the mice smarter or do they just think they are? You foolin' with the
mice.
>>Which Mike responds today? :^)
>
>Sorry... got a phone call there... the mouse isn't looking too good. I'll
>be back to you on the helmet thing in a few days...
Oh, oh, H-Mike is emerging. Peanut butter's gone. I losing IQ points
quickly... Gotta go to the lab fer more before I can pick up on the helmet
thing... ;^)
Cheers,
Kurt
Mike W.
wrote:
>
>So Mike, you give up on your completely unfulfilled fantasy of
>getting near Dana's squeeze box for a Bush win.
The answer to that depends upon the result in FL... BTW, Dana doesn't
approve of such crude language. Cheesehead.
>Now your
>smok'in your keyboard shinning for pony. What kind of sacrifice
>is that?
It is sacrifice in as much as Dana would not be dislocated from her lofty
perch had I not chosen to volunteer it. And I am merely accepting
applications for Dana's replacement. I cannot let the role of Top Goddess
go unoccupied for very long.
>Besides everyone knows, Wes is saving himself for the
>Shetland Babe.
With no disrespect to anyone... I believe he could be tempted to stray:)
Mike W.
>
>Always trying to pick a fight .... sheesh!
You can't hug children with nucular arms. Blah blah blah...
>
>To answer your question(s) .... yes, I'm still married and my implement is
>functioning quite nicely (not that it's any of your business). No
>glucosamine here.
Hey! What are you trying to say here? What if Dana were to read that?
>
>obmoto: you can likely get a Dremel tool in there if you buy the snake
>attachment thingy. It should be small enough to get into the hole and
>smooth it up if you aim it down the normal path of the axle.
I was unaware they sold a flexible attachment. Everything in this house is
rigid. (So much for the glucosamine factor).
>
>Wes' suggestion of the 12 ga brush is an excellent one .... buy a swab or
>two and use them to do a final clean and grease on the hoohaa.
Sounds good... think I'll do that . Take care Asswipe.
Mike W.
wrote:
>-jc wrote:
>>
>> Mike W. <mwil...@deletethstoemailme.crocker.com> wrote
>>
>> > >Go to your local gunshop, before the recount is done in FL, and buy a
>> > >rod and brush for a 12 gauge.
>> >
>> > Well, if I'm going to have the brush, shouldn't I get the 12 gauge too so
>> > I have something to use it on after the bike is together? Sometimes I
>> > don't think you're thinking there Wes... <s>
>
>Huh? I just assumed you *already* had a 12 gauge (doesn't everybody?),
As you noted once before, I'm more a bare-hands kind of guy...
>but then if you did you'd most likely already have a brush, and
>.......... I guess you're right, I'm not thinking here, or there, or
>wherever it is I'm supposed to be thinking (down there?)
Walk it off Wes...
>
>> Wes' suggestion of the 12 ga brush is an excellent one .... buy a swab or
>> two and use them to do a final clean and grease on the hoohaa.
>
>Yeah, I suppose the swabs would be OK for greasing his hoohaa,
There is one "a" in hooha, though I think I caused some of these
misspellings.
> but it'd
>be best to keep a bronze brush out of there. Man, that's gotta hurt.
Dude!!!! Don't go around placing these kind of SICK thoughts in people's
heads. Man... I just get the cliff nightmares to stop and you invoke this
crap...
>Besides, from what I hear, he's more a 410 kind of guy.
From what you hear??? Get a life!
>
>Wes
Volker Bartheld
<mwil...@deletethstoemailme.crocker.com> wrote :
>The surface of the axle... well, wish I had more experience. The left and
>right thirds where it touches the swingarm bearings seem fine. You can
>feel a little bit of surface roughness (a very little) at the head end and
>none at the thread end. However, in the center where it passes through
>that hooha on the back of the motor, there is a band about 5/8" wide of
>varying degrees of roughness around the bolt.
That's exactly how it should look like after some time of use. Sand the
corrosion/pits away with sanding paper of varying roughness, polish with
nevr-dull if you like to and apply generous amounts of sticky, waterproof
grease.
>The two swing-arm bearings turn with some noticeable viscosity, but it is
>smooth.
Get the pins out and look at the outer and inner bearing rail. If there are
dents or pits - well - you might consider a change. Otherwise, just clean the
buddy with brake cleaner etc., re-greasy everything liberately with
molybdene-sulfid (sp?) grease and re-assemble. Make sure not to lose a pin.
>The biggest mystery is that big bump at the back of the motor that the
>swingarm passes through. It doesn't feel like it has a bearing in it, but
>the axle goes in through it ONLY with great pressing on my part. This is
>the area that appeared to mate up to the axle as noted above. There is
>nothing about the thing in the service manual that I can find so I'm not
>sure what it does or how to take care of it. Any guidance here would be
>appreciated.
The "bump" is meant to hold the axle in position. The swingarm then rotates
around the bearings. This should be perfectly normal. Once the axle is clean, it
should slip in with less effort.
>replace the dust seals
Do so if you aren't the "el-cheapo" kind of guy. They don't cost much!
>and what to do about the needle bearings in terms
>of reviving them. Thanks for any help, and for all the GREAT help so far.
Don't replace but clean and re-grease. If you bike is _not_ totally rotten, this
is the whole deal. My '94CR still has the original set of swingarm bearings
(they have suffered a little bit) - but still without freeplay. The sperical
bearing (XRs and CRs only) at the top and bottom of the rear shock is what get's
trashed with time.
Go, ride the bastard and don't waste your time with philosophies!
Good luck,
Volker
_
Volker Bartheld < @: agentoNOSPAM@rrrDOTde >
XR600R '94: "One man, one cylinder." (sold)
CR250 '94: "Catch me - if you can... ;-)"
KTM 620 LC4 SC '98: "Agent Orange"
http://home.pages.de/~AgentO
Hoyt McKagen
> Uh oh, you didn't cross post this to the whiners over on rec.moto did
> you Hoyt?
No but don't be surprised if they're out there trolling.
Jeff Deeney
: Yeah, I suppose the swabs would be OK for greasing his hoohaa, but it'd
: be best to keep a bronze brush out of there. Man, that's gotta hurt.
: Besides, from what I hear, he's more a 410 kind of guy.
Guys, take this off line. I suggest you visit
http://www.well.com/user/cynsa/newbutt.html
All of your fantasies come true :-/
A live AA shell? Slipped in the shower? Suuuuurrrrrrreeee.......
-Jeffrey Deeney- DoD#0498 NCTR UTMA BRC COHVCO AMA
j...@fc.hp.com '99 ATK 260LQ-Stink Wheels '94 XR650L-DreamSickle
We don't stop riding because we get old, we get old because we stop riding.
Brian McGarry
"Mike W." wrote:
>
> >So Mike, you give up on your completely unfulfilled fantasy of
> >getting near Dana's squeeze box for a Bush win.
>
> The answer to that depends upon the result in FL... BTW, Dana doesn't
> approve of such crude language. Cheesehead.
Dewd, at first I was insulted and appalled by this accusation. Assuming your
personal Algernon bell curve has peaked long ago. Evinced by 90 posts
concerning the removal of your swing arm bolt. I understand and take no
offense. I further suspect you are another undiagnosed left hand, left brain
Schizodirtbikephrenia case.
The fact remains, sometime words have two meaning, squeeze box, you
interpreted
with your left (sinister) disease Brain as something vulgar. I on the other
hand being
the epitome of virtue, define squeeze box as a small, hexagonal accordion
with bellows and with buttons for keys. Regarding your intended Cheesehead
dis, In Wisconsin it's a label of distinction. It represents all the virtues
we stand for.
C'onsin'nites lead the nation in not only cheese consumption, but brats and
beer also.
We're also number one in the overweight citizenry. It's heaven on earth here
during
the NFL football season. Overweight Harley Davision (Hog) riders, consuming
vast
quantities of pork sausages at all night tailgate parties waiting for our
beloved (meat) Packers to take the field. Yah, yes the good life, the gods
shined on Wisconsin.
> >Now your
> >smok'in your keyboard shinning for pony. What kind of sacrifice
> >is that?
>
> It is sacrifice in as much as Dana would not be dislocated from her lofty
> perch had I not chosen to volunteer it. And I am merely accepting
> applications for Dana's replacement. I cannot let the role of Top Goddess
> go unoccupied for very long.
Hey a lot of us, already have a Pony fixation. Guess she just has another
groupie.
> >Besides everyone knows, Wes is saving himself for the
> >Shetland Babe.
>
> With no disrespect to anyone... I believe he could be tempted to stray:)
Why, she's the perfect RMD poster babe. Pony, you need to get some
more photos on your site. How about some nice feminine attribute shots
cleaning a dirt bike. Soap, subs, and water.....I better stop.
>
>
Mike W.
wrote:
>
>
>"Mike W." wrote:
>
>>
>> >So Mike, you give up on your completely unfulfilled fantasy of
>> >getting near Dana's squeeze box for a Bush win.
>>
>> The answer to that depends upon the result in FL... BTW, Dana doesn't
>> approve of such crude language. Cheesehead.
>
>Dewd, at first I was insulted and appalled by this accusation.
Then it worked:)
>Assuming your
>personal Algernon bell curve has peaked long ago. Evinced by 90 posts
>concerning the removal of your swing arm bolt.
You mean getting it done in under 100 posts WASN'T a good thing? Some
people are never happy...
>I understand and take no
>offense.
So you flip from being insulted to taking offense and then think *I* am
RMD's Charly Gordon? I think the cheese curds and Linenkoogals are
beginning to choke off some of the blood flow to the north...
<snip amateur diagnosis... using right hand!>
>The fact remains, sometime words have two meaning, squeeze box, you
>interpreted
>with your left (sinister) disease Brain as something vulgar. I on the other
>hand being
>the epitome of virtue, define squeeze box as a small, hexagonal accordion
>with bellows and with buttons for keys.
I think you mean concertina... English or anglo? I keep thinking these
would add character to a spodefest... a hundred dirtbikers all playing
concertians and singing sea chantys in the dark.
>Regarding your intended Cheesehead
>dis, In Wisconsin it's a label of distinction. It represents all the virtues
>we stand for.
>C'onsin'nites lead the nation in not only cheese consumption, but brats and
>beer also.
>We're also number one in the overweight citizenry. It's heaven on earth here
>during
>the NFL football season. Overweight Harley Davision (Hog) riders, consuming
>vast
>quantities of pork sausages at all night tailgate parties waiting for our
>beloved (meat) Packers to take the field. Yah, yes the good life, the gods
>shined on Wisconsin.
Quick.. take some aspirin... don't question this. (Factoid: I've never
seen a football or basketball game).
>
>> >Now your
>> >smok'in your keyboard shinning for pony. What kind of sacrifice
>> >is that?
>>
>> It is sacrifice in as much as Dana would not be dislocated from her lofty
>> perch had I not chosen to volunteer it. And I am merely accepting
>> applications for Dana's replacement. I cannot let the role of Top Goddess
>> go unoccupied for very long.
>
>Hey a lot of us, already have a Pony fixation. Guess she just has another
>groupie.
But not one that needs a restraining order!
>
>> >Besides everyone knows, Wes is saving himself for the
>> >Shetland Babe.
>>
>> With no disrespect to anyone... I believe he could be tempted to stray:)
>
>Why, she's the perfect RMD poster babe. Pony, you need to get some
>more photos on your site. How about some nice feminine attribute shots
>cleaning a dirt bike. Soap, subs, and water.....I better stop.
Somebody find out where Wes works and go revive him! This irresponsible
post must have have caused his eyes to roll up into his head and go down
hard right at his computer. Damn cheeseheads!
Chad Aaland
-Chad
1990cr125
2000yz440f
1981z50