any tips for removing lower steering bearing?
Dean H
I'm guessing there's a special tool. I'm also guessing there's another
way. So far, all my ideas seem a little brutal.
TIA,
Dean
john
I have not tried a gasgas <yet>
they are pressed on right?
I used a small cut off wheel
to cut thru the outer part then
when I got down to the last bit
out came the wee tiny dremel tool
then rather than doing the blast the
stem with the Co2 & cook the bearing
trick I just to it to the shop and pressed it on
john
"Dean H" <dfh...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:a1d33152-3ac6-48e1...@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
Tiago
I did that last week, on my RM125.
I used an old sharp screwdriver, a hammer and lots of patience...
Didn't take long though.
service manual call for a special tool.
:)
good luck!
-- Tiago
Volker Bartheld
BTDT just three days ago. Yamaha YZ426F, Model 2001. Yes, it was brutal,
involved a hot air gun and a (high quality) punch together with the
inevitable BFEM. If you work the outer bearing race in a crisscross
manner, it will eventuelly work itself out. Don't hesitate to bang it
hard.
I don't think that there's a special tool that will solve the issue with
less force.
Cheers,
Volker
--
@: I N F O at B A R T H E L D dot N E T
3W: www.bartheld.net
JayC
These guys are all nuts.
It's super-easy, you just need a hydraulic press - I have a 6 ton
press that I got from Harbor Freight for ~$100 15 years ago. Set the
lower triple clamp (stem facing up) on a socket that is bigger than
the bottom of the stem. Press the stem out of the clamp and the old
bearing falls off. Press the stem back into the clamp - I use a piece
of 1" black pipe that is 8-10" or so long as a spacer. The stem drops
through the clamp into the pipe, then you press the stem in from the
bottom of the clamp - pipe supports the reinforced area on the clamp
around the stem. Flip over and place the bottom of the stem onto the
socket - but turn the socket oyer this time (closed-end up) so the
stem is supported, and press on the bearing using the same piece of
pipe to push the bearing - it goes on easy, so don't squish it.
Takes about 3 minutes to change a bearing, provided you have Black
Sabbath playing in the background. 4 minutes if you don't.
JayC
HardWorkingDog
<a1d33152-3ac6-48e1...@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
Dean H <dfh...@optonline.net> wrote:
I think Park makes a steering stem bearing tool, kind of a 3-fingered
spread punch; they're known for bicycle tools. I'm sure a screwdriver or
long standard punch would work, don't forget the heat up/cold down
tricks...
I also swore I'd get a hydraulic press the next time I had to do any
bearing work (other than wheels).
--
Charles
'99 YZ250
"It's bad luck just SEEin' a thing like that..."
Wudsracer
It should not be a large problem to get the lower bearing off.
(Volker, the outer bearing race on Dean's GG is pressed into the
steering head of the frame; separate from the bearing.)
The bearings are never all that hard to remove.
The best bearing removal tool for the job is the flat bearing
removal tool which consists of two tapered flat pieces, which pull
together behind the bearing by tightening the two bolts attaching them
to each other. (bearing splitter)
Something like this:
http://www.mechanicstoolswarehouse.com/12-Bearing-Splitter-4-58-Capacity-P26433.aspx
Here is a nice selection of bearing removal tools:
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?category=&q=bearing+splitter
A ball joint removal tool will work, if needed, as will a pair of
large flat bladed screwdrivers.
Good Wrenching to you.
Jim
http://members.cox.net/jejb3/Wudi13/wudi13.html
http://z13.invisionfree.com/WUDI/index.php?showforum=5
***********************************************************************************
Volker Bartheld
On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 11:59:16 -0600, Wudsracer wrote:
> It should not be a large problem to get the lower bearing off.
> (Volker, the outer bearing race on Dean's GG is pressed into the
> steering head of the frame; separate from the bearing.)
I know.
It was 100% the same on the Yam. Probably I didn't describe it accurately
enough, though: Outer race(s) inside steering head (modeately easy to
remove), inner/lower race plus bearing itself pressed onto the lower
triple clamp stem (quite a bitch to remove because its difficult to get a
chisel in between). The upper/inner part is - of course - loose to allow
for adjustments.
> The bearings are never all that hard to remove.
For varying levels of "hard"... ;-) OK, about an hour for the job (incl.
taking apart everything, cleaning, etc.) can't be considered hard.
> The best bearing removal tool for the job is the flat bearing
> removal tool which consists of two tapered flat pieces, which pull
> together behind the bearing by tightening the two bolts attaching them
> to each other. (bearing splitter)
> Something like this:
> http://www.mechanicstoolswarehouse.com/12-Bearing-Splitter-4-58-Capacity-P26433.aspx
Cool! I used a sharp chisel - that was, btw, what the Yamaha Shop Manual
recommended...
> Here is a nice selection of bearing removal tools:
> http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?category=&q=bearing+splitter
I used to use something like that
http://www.hoffmann-tools.com/Handwerkzeuge/88-Abzieher/Innen-Ausziehvorrichtungs-Sortiment-im-Stahlblechkasten-25C-KUKKO.html
(seven f*cking hundred fifty f*cking eight f*cking Euros!!!) but the ball
bearing puller failed miserably with my KTMs totally rotten wheel
bearings.
The BFEM (and a sh*tload of hate und curses that I poured over the damned
part incl. the bike) however saved the day. Do I need to say that KTM put
some no-name el-cheapo bearings in there? The stuff from INA works fine
since 50'000km, nothing to complain, no change in usage profile.
Oh well.
> A ball joint removal tool will work, if needed, as will a pair of
> large flat bladed screwdrivers.
Have an angle grinder ready. You will have to ... ummm ... "rework" the
blade from time to time.
Dean H
While looking at the linkage pieces, I said out loud (to an empty
room) that I was sick of beating bearings into place and wondering if
I ruined it or not. If a press is nothing like a horse, I might
deserve one. Thanks.
HF also has a cheapo spring compressor I was eyeballing. I need to
paint the rear spring. It's a labor of love, at this point. I'm
getting a little carried away.
JayC
> bearing work (other than wheels).
Do it. You'll be glad you did.
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-shop-press-33497.html
Cheap dough.
JayC
john
> Dean,
> It should not be a large problem to get the lower bearing off.
> (Volker, the outer bearing race on Dean's GG is pressed into the
> steering head of the frame; separate from the bearing.)
> The bearings are never all that hard to remove.
>
> The best bearing removal tool for the job is the flat bearing
> removal tool which consists of two tapered flat pieces, which pull
> together behind the bearing by tightening the two bolts attaching them
> to each other. (bearing splitter)
> Something like this:
> http://www.mechanicstoolswarehouse.com/12-Bearing-Splitter-4-58-Capacity-P26433.aspx
cool tool i have one similair that i
made out of two hunks of stainless
to lift pots off my potters wheel
http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to-lift-clay-piece-off-wheel-and-dry-pot-241889/
no that's not me but he used a similair
lift tool to lift the pot
john
wudi 13, dude, has it really been that long?
bajacornman
> on the Yamaha I cut them off,
> I have not tried a gasgas <yet>
> they are pressed on right?
> I used a small cut off wheel
> to cut thru the outer part then
> when I got down to the last bit
> out came the wee tiny dremel tool
> then rather than doing the blast the
> stem with the Co2 & cook the bearing
> trick I just to it to the shop and pressed it on
>
> news:a1d33152-3ac6-48e1...@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Removing the lower bearing from the steering stem seems problematic.
> > I'm guessing there's a special tool. I'm also guessing there's another
> > way. So far, all my ideas seem a little brutal.
>
> > TIA,
> > Dean
I've done similar, but I use an angle grinder to remove the pressed on
race. I don't cut into it at 90 degrees, but rather grind it away
slowly. When it gets really thin, it will turn very blue and the heat
will cause it to swell and crack keeping you from getting into the
post with the grinder. That was before I had a welder. Now I would
probably just a bead around the race and remove it while hot.
HellSickle
Good advice on removing from the steering stem. I use a diamond
cutting wheel on the dremel to cut most the way thru, then whack with
a chisel or screwdriver.
> It was 100% the same on the Yam. Probably I didn't describe it accurately
> enough, though: Outer race(s) inside steering head (modeately easy to
> remove), inner/lower race plus bearing itself pressed onto the lower
> triple clamp stem (quite a bitch to remove because its difficult to get a
> chisel in between). The upper/inner part is - of course - loose to allow
> for adjustments.
In their infinite foresight, Kawasaki set up the lower race in the KLR
steering head so that there is no lip showing on the race to punch
against. Driven to desparation, I used a technique that I had heard
about, but never used. Get out the electric welder & run a bead of
weld around the surface of the race. The cooling molten metal induces
a compressive strain, causing the bearing the shrink and fall out.
Works like a charm. Be extremely careful that your bead doesn't hit
too high or too low, welding the race in place.
-Jeff-
JayC
> steering head so that there is no lip showing on the race to punch
> against. Driven to desparation, I used a technique that I had heard
> about, but never used. Get out the electric welder & run a bead of
> weld around the surface of the race. The cooling molten metal induces
> a compressive strain, causing the bearing the shrink and fall out.
> Works like a charm. Be extremely careful that your bead doesn't hit
> too high or too low, welding the race in place.
I've never been able to get a steering head race out using a punch. I
did use the weld technique on my GasGas and it worked like a charm.
Heck of a lot easier then getting the new one back in, I'll tell you
that.
JayC
Volker Bartheld
> Good advice on removing from the steering stem. I use a diamond
> cutting wheel on the dremel to cut most the way thru, then whack with
> a chisel or screwdriver.
Yeah. So we did with the bearing on the steering stem. If you are careful,
you don't even nick the stem itself. As soon as the inner bearing race is
cut deep enough, you can jam the chisel in there an pop it open. If you
use the chisel a little sideways, the race will also rotate a bit and that
normally breaks it loose.
Don't throw away the upper bearing though. You can prep it with the exact
same Dremel/diamond wheel to separate the outer and the inner race from
the little bearing rollers. Cut both races open all the way, leaving about
a 1mm slit. You can use this as a buffer to punch in the new bearings
without damaging them.
>> It was 100% the same on the Yam. Probably I didn't describe it accurately
>> enough, though: Outer race(s) inside steering head (modeately easy to
>> remove), inner/lower race plus bearing itself pressed onto the lower
>> triple clamp stem (quite a bitch to remove because its difficult to get a
>> chisel in between). The upper/inner part is - of course - loose to allow
>> for adjustments.
> In their infinite foresight, Kawasaki set up the lower race in the KLR
> steering head so that there is no lip showing on the race to punch
> against.
How nice! The lip on the Yam's steering head was about 1mm - at most. So
you really needed a sharp, hard and stable punch. Same issue with the
chisel. I thought about grinding some kind of "maintenance opening" in
there but decided against weakening the part. You never know what happens
and definitely don't want to see the steering head break off the rest of
the frame (as I was told happens with quite a number of KTM 250 and 450
SX/EXC)! Eeeek.
> Driven to desparation, I used a technique that I had heard
> about, but never used. Get out the electric welder & run a bead of
> weld around the surface of the race. The cooling molten metal induces
> a compressive strain, causing the bearing the shrink and fall out.
> Works like a charm. Be extremely careful that your bead doesn't hit
> too high or too low, welding the race in place.
EXCELLENT!
Though I probably don't deserve a horse, I probably deserve a TIG-welder at
some time. It's quite expensive with all the stuff in its environment, but
it's fun and very useful. In your situation, you probably wouldn't even
need an electrode. Just ignite an arch at - say - *AREYOUNUTS* amps and
there you are...
Talking about "are you nuts"... This reminds me of the piston job which is
still on the todo list. It has been a long time since I pulled the head of
a 4-stroke. Wish me luck that I don't ruin anything.
HardWorkingDog
Volker Bartheld <dr_ve...@freenet.de> wrote:
> > In their infinite foresight, Kawasaki set up the lower race in the KLR
> > steering head so that there is no lip showing on the race to punch
> > against.
>
> How nice! The lip on the Yam's steering head was about 1mm - at most. So
> you really needed a sharp, hard and stable punch. Same issue with the
> chisel. I thought about grinding some kind of "maintenance opening" in
> there but decided against weakening the part. You never know what happens
> and definitely don't want to see the steering head break off the rest of
> the frame (as I was told happens with quite a number of KTM 250 and 450
> SX/EXC)! Eeeek.
This is what I was referring to earlier (though I realize now youse
guys were talking about the stem bearing, not the race).
http://www.parktool.com/product/head-cup-remover-oversized
--
Charles
'99 YZ250
I_am_Tosk
har...@mush.man says...
Wow, that's a pretty neat idea. I bet my bud could whip one up at his
shop in a few minutes.. I am gonna' ask him about it. If I am seeing
this correctly it should be pretty straight forward. Can you folks think
of anything I may not know (sometimes you just don't know, what you
don't know) or any particular considerations I should note?
Volker Bartheld
>> http://www.parktool.com/product/head-cup-remover-oversized
On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 13:09:37 -0500, I_am_Tosk wrote:
> Wow, that's a pretty neat idea. I bet my bud could whip one up at his
> shop in a few minutes.. I am gonna' ask him about it. If I am seeing
> this correctly it should be pretty straight forward. Can you folks think
> of anything I may not know (sometimes you just don't know, what you
> don't know) or any particular considerations I should note?
Depending on your frame material (CroMo-Steel vs. Aluminum), the outer
steering bearing could be pressed in there pretty firmly. If I understand
it correctly, the Head Cup Remover from Parktool is meant to be used with
MTBs (and other bicycles) and they seem to have much smaller bearings (with
less outer surface and therefore less force to remove them from the frame).
So it might - depending on the rigidity of the tool - happen that the claws
eventually get rounded off. And then you might have one hell of a time to
rework them with an angle grinder, dremel or whatever.
I tried something like this
http://www.kukko.com/index.cfm/DE/products/20/192/kukko_21_innenauszieher_baureihe_21
with the wheel bearings of my KTM - and failed. Probably this one
http://www.kukko.com/index.cfm/DE/products/20/524/kukko_21_innenauszieher_baureihe_21
would have worked better, but it's only design for rather large IDs. I
finally ended up with the old BFEM method...
Good luck!
Volker
P.S.: For remounting inner races, access to some liquid nitrogen is
extremely helpful. -196°C/77K *really* makes a difference.
Wudsracer
key stock.
I insert it in one side and catch one of the corners on the inner race
of the other side wheel bearing. Then hit my end with the ball peen
hammer.
The key stock is hard as hell, and the corner stays sharp to catch the
inner race.
It's a lot like the bfem method, except with direction.
Jim
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 13:09:14 +0100, Volker Bartheld wrote:
>Hi!
XR650L_Dave
> For wheel bearing removal, I favor an 18" long section of 1/2" square
> key stock.
> I insert it in one side and catch one of the corners on the inner race
> of the other side wheel bearing. Then hit my end with the ball peen
> hammer.
> The key stock is hard as hell, and the corner stays sharp to catch the
> inner race.
>
> It's a lot like the bfem method, except with direction.
>
> Jim
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 13:09:14 +0100, Volker Bartheld wrote:
> >Hi!
>
> >I tried something like this
>
>
> >with the wheel bearings of my KTM - and failed. Probably this one
>
>
> >would have worked better, but it's only design for rather large IDs. I
> >finally ended up with the old BFEM method...
>
> >Good luck!
>
> >Volker
>
> >P.S.: For remounting inner races, access to some liquid nitrogen is
> >extremely helpful. -196 C/77K *really* makes a difference.
Emphasis on the sharpness of the corner- I have a nice long punch,
just did my rear wheelbearings, used the belt sander to get rid of the
tiniest break in the corner (chamfer) on the edge of the punch, made
all the difference.
Dave
Dean H
"These guys are all nuts.
It's super-easy, you just need a hydraulic press - I have a 6 ton
press that I got from Harbor Freight for ~$100 15 years ago."
the HWD wrote:
> > I also swore I'd get a hydraulic press the next time I had to do any
> > bearing work (other than wheels).
>
And Jay gave the link:
> Do it. You'll be glad you did.
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-shop-press-33497.html
>
> Cheap dough.
>
> JayC
Of course, with space and funds both tight here, I ordered the 6 ton
model thinking that had worked for JayC...
Uh, but he got his 15 years ago, so my bad for not checking the
working distance.
The 6 ton model will not accept the height of the steering stem.
My Sunday morning joy just came crashing down. I was so excited.
Also, the air compressor I ordered is a friggin' toy. I won't even
plug it in. The directions say I should give it four minutes to come
up to pressure with its whopping 3 gallon tank. GMAFB.
I guess I'll be taking a road trip to one of the retail stores.
It's not like you can reuse that Chinese packing material that passes
for a box.
Maybe this belongs in BRP's mail order helmet thread.
On the other hand, my new Athena piston is quite lovely.
oops, wrong thread there too.
I'm going back to bed.
-d
bajacornman
I've got a small air compressor. It's pretty useful for most stuff,
but not up to serious impact wrenching and certainly not sand
blasting. Works fine for about everything else though and is very
portable. I paid about $125 for it at least 15 years ago. It's spend
endless hours running a couple nail guns. Doubles nicely as an air
tank. :)
Dean H
OK, well...
couldn't return the 6 ton model because the mail order unit is
different than the retail store version. They did give me a favorable
return on the compressor, so I got a medium sized old-school (requires
oil) compressor for a Chinese price. And I picked up the 12 ton unit.
It reeks of the much admired Chinese quality. I guess they don't use
jigs when they weld up things over there. Out of square much?
I hope there's not lead in the paint. I was going to let small
children chew on it.
I might dispose of the 6 ton in some other way than shipping it back
to CA.
fridiculous.
I had a little PorterCable oilless "pancake" unit that worked well,
but it was loud as hell and failed a little early. I ordered rebuild
parts, but they came in wrong. And at that point I became part of our
disposable society.
Rather than get philosophical, I'm going to just make more coffee.
HardWorkingDog
<eda1d96b-b871-457a...@i39g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
Dean H <dfh...@optonline.net> wrote:
> I hope there's not lead in the paint.
There's probably worse stuff in there, oh, say radioactive waste,
dioxin, chinese toothpaste, what have you.
I read some of the harbor freight reviews...classic. One review said it
was a good unit, as long as one was willing to strip off all the paint,
grind out all the welds and re-do them competently. Or something like
that.
Just finished my first cup. Time for another.
JayC
> model thinking that had worked for JayC...
> Uh, but he got his 15 years ago, so my bad for not checking the
> working distance.
> The 6 ton model will not accept the height of the steering stem.
> My Sunday morning joy just came crashing down. I was so excited.
Hmm. Didn't ask. Still, I surely must've mentioned that I welded on
frame rail extensions some years ago, making the press into a floor-
standing model. This also increased the working distance to about 2'
or so. I did that specifically for pressing steering stems, BTW.
JayC
dsc-ky
> Hmm. Didn't ask. Still, I surely must've mentioned that I welded on
> frame rail extensions some years ago, making the press into a floor-
> standing model. This also increased the working distance to about 2'
> or so. I did that specifically for pressing steering stems, BTW.
>
> JayC
Now that's funny... :)
Dean H
wicked funny.
Volker Bartheld
> On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 05:36:01 -0800 (PST), Dean H wrote:
>> Removing the lower bearing from the steering stem seems problematic.
>> I'm guessing there's a special tool. I'm also guessing there's another
>> way. So far, all my ideas seem a little brutal.
On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 16:39:54 +0100, Volker Bartheld wrote:
> BTDT just three days ago. Yamaha YZ426F, Model 2001. Yes, it was brutal,
> involved a hot air gun and a (high quality) punch together with the
> inevitable BFEM. If you work the outer bearing race in a crisscross
> manner, it will eventuelly work itself out. Don't hesitate to bang it
> hard.
I have a little update regarding "getting banged hard", brutality and the
limits of the BFEM-approach:
Yesterday, the steering stem bearing kit from "All Balls" arrived. Heck, it
already was delivered a week ago, but the hen, who accepted it because
riding buddy Lutz was still at work when the postman rang, decided to go
on an extended carnival holiday somewhere out of this world. So the
delivery was safe and sane next door and no chance to get it (apart from
using the BFEM or worse on her appartment's door).
OK then, yesterday was the day.
The plan was all set and clear, the steering stem went into the fridge (-15
frickin °C) and the inner bearing race with its rollers went onto the
hotplate. The first lesson we learned was, that the lowerd rubber-metal
sealing gizmo (some kind of a poor man's oil seal) just didn't want to
stay put under the bearing. The lip that was meant to go around the inner
race's collar was just too tight. Well, there's always another option and
this time the option was superglue.
So we had about 150°C temperature difference between the surfaces, we had
the old inner race with a slot cut into it and a liberal assortment of
BFEMs of all types and sizes, together with about 100 punches and chisels,
a hardwood panel and a length of tube that quit nicely fit the steering
stem.
We were really confident. This only could be a quickie and the result could
only be success. We were miserably wrong.
So the sizzling hot inner race was dropped onto the sub zero steering stem
and stopped about an inch _before_ its normal position. Heck, no problem
(at least that was what we thought) - just give it a few whacks with the
hammer - pardon - BFEM and use the old race as a buffer. We didn't give it
a few punches, we gave it a million. The race indeed moved, but it moved
about 1/10th of an inch every time we started a new approach.
Soon, we had to remove the old race because it jammed onto the stem and
sure enough, I streaked the threads of the stem with the BFEM a few times.
No biggie, but the space technology aluminum part sure wasn't new anymore
afterwards.
After about 1/2 hour of punching and cursing (I put on the big gloves for
apparent reasons meanwhile), the temperature difference advantage was long
gone and the bearing decided not to move anymore, no matter what we did.
And the sound changed from a quite dull *whack* to a very bright *ding*.
Unfortunately, *ding* didn't mean "success", it meant "Congratulations, you
can now consider yourself officially fucked", because there was still a
gap about 2 millimeters (~1/20in) wide between where the bearing decided
to stop and where it should be. The rubber seal was still loose, of
course.
In my whole life, I never witnessed such a close fit.
This was developing into an absolute nightmare, terror, sheer apocalypse -
our nemesis. And for sure, we made friends with even more neighbours
(especially those living - or, better: trying to sleep below Lutz's
appartment or above his garage) who first enjoyed the delights of a cheap
angle grinder being used in the middle of the night, then an even cheaper
air compressor inflating its tank and - last not least - someone trying to
forge a bearing race onto a steering stem whith 5kgs worth of BFEM.
At least the punch was holding up this time (which wasn't the case when we
removed the bearing from the frame) so there was no need to reactivate the
dremel (or worse).
I don't know if a 5 ton hydraulic press would have saved the day (ISF2010
participants know, that I'm far from being a skinny towel and people say
that desparateness frees even more force) - but this was it, yesterday.
Thank god for Averna, for internet-order pizza delivery service (don't try
to go out for a late-night dinner on pan-cake day and hope for at least a
pan-cake after 11pm if you're living in Milbertshofen - a district of
Munich), thank god for Schneider Weisse TAP7, thank god for Kalterer See
Vernatsch (a red wine from the Trentino-Alto Adige/Südtirol/Italy region),
thank god that I have a month-ticket for the Munich suburban services (my
Audi recently crapped out with a defective ABS sensor and a possibly
leaking oilsump or, nicer, gearbox oil seal) and thank you Lord for the
fact that a new bearing kit just costs about 40 Euro.
Of course - at 2AM the last bus was long gone, so I opted for a little
3-mile nightwalk in fresh air.
If I can trust in some kind of balance between luck and misfortune (similar
to the physical law about conservation of energy and linear momentum),
someone nearby must have won the lottery today. I gonna kill that bugger
and take all his money. That'll teach him.
So, moral is: Time to call a few friends with even bigger BFEMs, hotter
hotplates and probably 10-ton hydraulic presses that are _not_ made in
China but from genuine, trustworthy teutonic steel.
Guys, please keep your fingers crossed that it'll be an easier job to punch
in the outer races because my mental sanity is definitely at risk here.
Cheers,
Volker,
Carnival-averse
HardWorkingDog
Volker Bartheld <dr_ve...@freenet.de> wrote:
> I don't know if a 5 ton hydraulic press would have saved the day (ISF2010
> participants know, that I'm far from being a skinny towel and people say
> that desparateness frees even more force) - but this was it, yesterday.
gulp. I'm starting to panic just from reading this!
Good lucken...
JayC
> and stopped about an inch _before_ its normal position. Heck, no problem
> (at least that was what we thought) - just give it a few whacks with the
> hammer - pardon - BFEM and use the old race as a buffer. We didn't give it
> a few punches, we gave it a million. The race indeed moved, but it moved
> about 1/10th of an inch every time we started a new approach.
I have never-ever seen the heat/freeze method work. Never.
> I don't know if a 5 ton hydraulic press would have saved the day (ISF2010
> participants know, that I'm far from being a skinny towel and people say
> that desparateness frees even more force) - but this was it, yesterday.
If you ever pop a steering stem and change a lower bearing using a
press (even a cheepo chinese 5-ton) and see how simple and effortless
it is, you are going to kill yourself for even THINKING of trying it w/
o one.
> Guys, please keep your fingers crossed that it'll be an easier job to punch
> in the outer races because my mental sanity is definitely at risk here.
Hope you have a welder to get the old one out, and gawd help you
putting the new one back in - I don't think there is an elegant way to
do that part...or you might want to just get a new bike :).
JayC
XR650L_Dave
I bought a 20T press to do the wheelbearings on my subaru- that
probably guarantees I'll never have to replace steering head bearings.
Dave
Dean H
> I bought a 20T press to do the wheelbearings on my subaru- that
> probably guarantees I'll never have to replace steering head bearings.
The really sick part is that my steering head bearings aren't that
bad. But they are far from perfect. And with the bike in such
nakedness, it seems foolhardy to install ten year old wear items just
because they have a season or two left in them. The might-as-wells
really add up when you go bare frame.
The press will be nice for doing the linkage. That can get a little
sketchy with the Bambam method.
My living room is currently bare frame too. I finally ripped out the
ceiling so I can enjoy the skylight I installed back durring the
roofing escapade. Demo, framing, and insulation is done. Now I'm
scratching my head while bringing the wires up to code. Added some
recessed lights and a place for a fan. Found a live box sealed behind
the coconut fiber wallboard) - that's a no-no. Maybe add a switch for
the kitchen light which currently (no pun intended) has a pull chain.
I guess I'll be sheetrocking the whole room. Only 20 sheets... ugh.
The might-as-wells really add up when you go bare frame.
XR650L_Dave
I've done that on the upstairs (floor, walls, ceiling, attic floor
joists) of an oak frame balloon-framed farmhouse with loose-fill
insulation and plaster walls... messy.
Dave
dsc-ky
> thank god that I have a month-ticket for the Munich suburban services (my
> Audi recently crapped out with a defective ABS sensor and a possibly
> leaking oilsump or, nicer, gearbox oil seal) and thank you Lord for the
> fact that a new bearing kit just costs about 40 Euro.
>
> Of course - at 2AM the last bus was long gone, so I opted for a little
> 3-mile nightwalk in fresh air.
>
> If I can trust in some kind of balance between luck and misfortune (similar
> to the physical law about conservation of energy and linear momentum),
> someone nearby must have won the lottery today. I gonna kill that bugger
> and take all his money. That'll teach him.
>
> So, moral is: Time to call a few friends with even bigger BFEMs, hotter
> hotplates and probably 10-ton hydraulic presses that are _not_ made in
> China but from genuine, trustworthy teutonic steel.
>
> Guys, please keep your fingers crossed that it'll be an easier job to punch
> in the outer races because my mental sanity is definitely at risk here.
>
> Cheers,
> Volker,
> Carnival-averse
>
> --
> @: I N F O at B A R T H E L D dot N E T
> 3W:www.bartheld.net
Put it back together with the gap, adjust bearings for that. Ride into
a brick wall to seat the bearing, re-adjust... done... simple as
that. :)
JayC
> a brick wall to seat the bearing, re-adjust... done... simple as
> that. :)
Reverend.
JayC
Volker Bartheld
> The press will be nice for doing the linkage. That can get a little
> sketchy with the Bambam method.
The 1994 CR250R's linkage I did decades ago was quite easy to do with the
hot-air-gun-and-BFEM method.
Probably with nowadays' alloys and close fits, this might be an insane
project to even think about, I dunno.
> My living room is currently bare frame too. I finally ripped out the
> ceiling so I can enjoy the skylight I installed back durring the
> roofing escapade.
Nice! Are you prepared for another horror-story?
I brought my Audi (I call it "Olympic Nightmare" for apparent reasons) to
the dealer today, because it was leaking oil like a sieve. On my way, the
clutch started to slip and strange noises emerged from the gearbox. As it
turned out, the pride of German craftsmanship had literally imploded (a
"common problem" as the mechanic put it) and spilled oil all over the
clutch plate.
A whooping 3500$ to repair. Heck, the car already has 100'000mls on the
ODO, no wonder why it breaks down...
Cheers,
Volker
Volker Bartheld
>> I don't know if a 5 ton hydraulic press would have saved the day (ISF2010
>> participants know, that I'm far from being a skinny towel and people say
>> that desparateness frees even more force) - but this was it, yesterday.
> If you ever pop a steering stem and change a lower bearing using a
> press (even a cheepo chinese 5-ton) and see how simple and effortless
> it is, you are going to kill yourself for even THINKING of trying it w/
> o one.
Just for the sake of completeness - this is what Lutz (my riding buddy)
mailed after using the monumental hydraulic press that - as the BMW
suspension guy confessed - "Never ever let him down":
'...
Das ganze aufgebaut... und tja dann gibt es eigentlich wenig zu sagen ...
Tisch verfahren (elektrisch ssssssst!) und dann mit der Fusspumpe
(ähnlich wie beim Wagenheber) ein bisserl Druck aufgebaut. Eigentlich
knarrte es bei der ersten Betätigung des Pedals. Klang ebenfalls wie
beim Auto aufbocken. Noch zwei mal gepumpt und das Lager hatte seinen
Endanschlag erreicht. Mein Blick aufs Manometer bemerkte 40Bar im System
... bei 500Bar war ein roter Strich.
Wahnsinn. Das ganze war vollkommen langweilig und belanglos. Ich weiß
nicht, was wir da gemacht haben, aber es erschien mir wie aus einer
anderen Welt. Alter, der Ami hatte recht: Einmal hydraulisch ein Lager
einpresst und alles andere kommt Dir aberwitzig vor. Aber sowas von. Das
gibt es gar nicht.
...'
Long translation short: He used 40 Bar/725 PSI (red marker being at 500
Bar), it made a jarring sound and the bearing was set. Totally boring and
effortless. The US guy recommending a press was so absolutely right and
everything else is outright insane. Unbelievable.
Oh well. Probably I don't deserve a hydraulic press.
>> Guys, please keep your fingers crossed that it'll be an easier job to punch
>> in the outer races because my mental sanity is definitely at risk here.
> Hope you have a welder to get the old one out, and gawd help you
> putting the new one back in - I don't think there is an elegant way to
> do that part...or you might want to just get a new bike :).
We're thinking about a bigass threaded rod and two even more bigass nuts
with two of the bigassest washers (or metal slabs) we can find and a big
fucking box wrench (BFBW) instead of the inevitable electrical motor.
There might be another embarassing story coming up next. Stay tuned!
Cheers,
Volker
john
been known to improvise when the
situation merits out of the box thinking....
once while fixing stuff overseas I
jacked up a truck stacked some
wood & metal in place then let it down
on things I needed to press into place
a hydraulic press is really nothing more
than a floor jack in a different frame
john
alleskaputt
"Volker Bartheld" <dr_ve...@freenet.de> wrote in message
news:ybyazu6e...@news.bartheld.net...
I_am_Tosk
knot@diss-.add says...
That's how we got the shaft out of my 125 the other day. The guy helping
me brought half the case outside, used the lift to lift the camper and
stuck a 2x4 in and let it back down until the crank shaft was loose...:)
JayC
> been known to improvise when the
> situation merits out of the box thinking....
> once while fixing stuff overseas I
> jacked up a truck stacked some
> wood & metal in place then let it down
> on things I needed to press into place
> a hydraulic press is really nothing more
> than a floor jack in a different frame
You're a smart fucker, you know that?
So, there there you go Dean - Jack up that POS plow truck of yours and
drop it on your steering stem. The GasGas won't mind - they're used
to force...
JayC
Volker Bartheld
On Thu, 10 Mar 2011 19:33:11 +0100, Volker Bartheld wrote:
> [Installing steering head outer bearing races]
> We're thinking about a bigass threaded rod and two even more bigass nuts
> with two of the bigassest washers (or metal slabs) we can find and a big
> fucking box wrench (BFBW) instead of the inevitable electrical motor.
>
> There might be another embarassing story coming up next. Stay tuned!
Sorry to disappoint you - nothing embarassing here to tell. Threaded rod
and BFBW worked 100% as expected. A few slabs with the little hammer here
and there and the bearing was all set and fine. Works (=rotates) like a
charm.
OK, there was a little issue with tightening the big stem counternut to an
insane 140Nm (dunno about the non-metric specs here) when the bike wanted
to jump off its stand. But I caught it and cushioned it with my body
before it hit the ground.
Fork job is done, too - so there's just new piston rings, checking valve
clearances and stuffing the exhaust on the list - besides the inevitable
oil- and airfilter change.
After that big of an overhaul, the Yammie should be better than new...
Cheers!
Volker Bartheld
On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 00:26:29 +0100, Volker Bartheld wrote:
> Fork job is done, too - so there's just new piston rings, checking valve
> clearances and stuffing the exhaust on the list - besides the inevitable
> oil- and airfilter change.
A little update here:
Yesterday's piston inspection drill worked like a charm (besides Lutz who
wanted to mount *two* cylinder foot gaskets and me finding out about it in
the very last second before "point of no return"), revealed five valves,
one piston and one cylinder in mint condition. Almost no sign of wear.
That's great news, indeed. It seems, this bike is close to be
indestructible.
Since Yamaha was so nice to put two complete ring sets (plus necessary
gaskets) into their "kit-bag" at that time (those were the days - my Zook
has *zero*, *nada*, *niente*, *garnix* replacement parts in its bag), we
have one more shot for free - in another decade or so...
So just 1-2 shims to replace (valve freeplay a little on the loose side),
new coolant, exhaust stuffing and renewing the VB-mod in the Keihin carb
(slide nylon rollers eating away the carb body) before we can go to Italy
and have some MX fun. Whee!
> After that big of an overhaul, the Yammie should be better than new...
Getting better by the minute... OK, there's still the RMZ oil change, KTM
waiting for its carb to be cleaned and Anja's new WR250X should get bark
busters, axle crash pads and engine/frame glideplate on the todo list, but
that's peanuts anyhow.
Cheers,
Volker
P.S.: Gasket remover works great on oil-/coal-deposits!
Volker Bartheld
>> Fork job is done, too - so there's just new piston rings, checking valve
>> clearances and stuffing the exhaust on the list - besides the
>> inevitable oil- and airfilter change.
> A little update here: Yesterday's piston inspection drill worked like a
> charm (besides Lutz who wanted to mount *two* cylinder foot gaskets and
> me finding out about it in the very last second before "point of no
> return"), revealed five valves, one piston and one cylinder in mint
> condition. Almost no sign of wear. That's great news, indeed. It seems,
> this bike is close to be indestructible.
A little update to the little update: The blue thumper raised its voice
again yesterday night. To the very pleasure of Lutz's neighbours, of
course. Why "yesterday night" (since the job should have been finished
much earlier)?
We had to drop in a new valve shim first (175 instead of 170) and had a few
iterations with putting in the two camshafts without getting a nervous
breakdown and having a correct timing after all. It turned out that you
need to push onto the cam chain tensioner from the hole where the
automatic gizmo should have been to align all the punchmarks. If the chain
is slack (as needed to install the camshafts), the markings are a little
off.
But finally that was done, too, and we marveled at the rise in compression
that the new rings produced.
Next step was renewing the infamous "VB-mod" to the carb (you probably know
about the common Keihin FCR MX prob where the nylon rollers of the slide
eat away the paths that are milled in the rather soft carb body material
which can result in the slide valve breaking and eventually ruining the
engine). I had added L-shaped stainless steel "sheet metal" (in fact, the
thickness is 0.1mm, 1/250") profiles (short side about 5mm, long side
about 18mm, length about 48mm) but the steel developed fatigue cracks over
time, exactly where the nylon rollers had eaten away the carb body.
So our decision was to replace stainless steel by brass which supposedly
will adjust better to the new shape. The cutting/bending process worked
like a charm (thanks to the benefits of a marble window sill) and the
profiles slid in perfectly.
Then we reinstalled the carb, and, while we were at it, welded one of the
plastic tubes that had cracked off where the gas bowden wire adaptor went
into the throttle grip tube with the hot air gun, mounted the tank (which
was welded earlier because of a crack) and pushed the bike outside.
Shortly after opening the petcock, the carb flooded, spitting gas on the
pavement. *bummer*
As it turned out, there was am O-ring (kind of, it rather had a rectangular
profile) inside the brass thingie where the float needle moved up and down
- and this O-ring was shot. As a result, the needle cut off the hole as it
should, but gas managed to flow by the valve altogether. And the needle
had some very tiny but nevertheless weird burrs where it contacts the
outer part.
Well, with the help of a little f*cking electrical motor, we replaced the
O-ring and dremeled the slide needle, polished everything with a buffer and
polishing compound. Shiny as a bacon rind.
Being tired of all the hanky-panky with TPC, overflow/vent tubes intake
system and airbox, I insisted to test the carb *outside* the bike which
succeeded. OK, in went the carb, bloody went my fingers and out went the
bike.
Started 4th kick, spitting a few sparks out of its exhaust - but that
should be pretty normal, considering the amount of oil we poured onto the
piston and rings. Engine cleared up pretty well and from what we could see,
everything was tight and in order. The yammie seems to have gained a few
horses, too - probably we deserve that kind of horse.
Next (and final) is the RMZ450 oil change and new exhaust packing for the
yam.
Enjoy your sunday!
Volker
I_am_Tosk
says...
Good to read that stuff. Glad you are having fun with it.. Jessi took
the RMZ out into the yard yesterday and just blew away the boys next
door with the Honda 150. They were riding up and down the street but she
doesn't do that kind of riding so there was no race;)