Future Floor Wax and painting woes
foo
I thought a coat of Future would protect my undercoat from
getting eaten up by my wash... what am I doing wrong?
1) I painted my model (testors - model masters). Let it dry a few days.
Looks great
2) I brush on some future floor wax and let it dry a few days.
- It looks odd now. Shinier but also oddly grainy.
3) I mix up some thinner and black paint for a wash (testors
model master). Brush it on. Nice lines but too dark
so I give it a light wipe with a paper towel..
The wipe with the paper towel trashes the undercoat. It
seems the wash dissolved the future and got to the base coat.
I thought that maybe I didn't put on enough future, so I tried to
apply another coat in a different area. The second coat just beads up
and seems to roll away and dissapear.
What is going on??
Neil
Jeff Barringer
a water based paint. I use tempera paints because they are cheap,
available sometimes even at grocery stores, and work well. Other people
here use acrylics with a few drops of dish soap and make what is called
a "SLUDGE" wash. I used to use this but found that the soap sometimes
reacted poorly with the final top coat, causing that beading your
talking about.
They key is to use something that doesn't react with the future.
foo
implies that future (being acrylic) wouldn't react with the solvents
for oil paints.
Neil
Dave Calhoun
Future. Maybe the undercoat enamel was not completely dry when you applied
the Future. Well, you may have to try again, experiment on an old kit until
you find what works best for you.
Dave
"foo" <f...@bar.net> wrote in message news:44A063BA...@bar.net...
Stephen Tontoni
Jeff Barringer <je...@pethobbyist.com> wrote:
> The thinner is reacting with the future. Try using a wash made with
> a water based paint. I use tempera paints because they are cheap,
> available sometimes even at grocery stores, and work well. Other people
> here use acrylics with a few drops of dish soap and make what is called
> a "SLUDGE" wash. I used to use this but found that the soap sometimes
> reacted poorly with the final top coat, causing that beading your
> talking about.
>
> They key is to use something that doesn't react with the future.
>
-snippage--
I kinda disagree here. (and yeah there are those who get good results
with Future)
I believe the key is to not use future for a barrier coat, or for any
gloss coat at all. If you're using enamels for paint, try using a clear
acrylic coat to use a barrier coat before applying a wash outside that.
I use duracryl which is kinda acrylic-like, but has a VERY hot thinner.
You can use Novus or Blue Magic to polish it if you like, and light
enamel washes don't attack it. (in my experience anyhow)
Future, in my book, is for dipping canopies, gluing instrument
photo-etch instrument panels together with, and so forth. I learned from
the great one, Ted Holowchuk, not to use Future for gloss coats. (well,
he kinda balled me out for messing the finish on a good model)
It does work on floors though!!
--- Stephen
The Model Hobbit
it on straight without thinning.
Don't use Model Master thinner, try Turpenoid instead. Less aggressive and
flows better
"foo" <f...@bar.net> wrote in message news:e7piho$49j$1...@reader2.panix.com...
The Model Hobbit
"Stephen Tontoni" <ton...@comcast.net> wrote
> I believe the key is to not use future for a barrier coat, or for any
> gloss coat at all. If you're using enamels for paint, try using a clear
> acrylic coat to use a barrier coat before applying a wash outside that.
?????
Future is a clear acrylic gloss coat so what are you trying to say??
Curt
> That's pretty much what I thought, but everything I read on the net
> implies that future (being acrylic) wouldn't react with the solvents
> for oil paints.
Up to a point, that's true. But if you use a lot of thinner, or scrub the
surface with a brush or towel, the solvent will attack and eat through the
Future, attacking the paint underneath. It's still better than washing bare
paint or paint with an oil-based clear coat. You can also use a water-based
wash as others have described.
Curt
foo
and tried that. Much better and obviously no damage
to the undercoat.
Now my dilema is what to seal it with. It's really
starting to look nice and I'd hate to trash it by
spraying it with something that will cause the wash
to run.
Neil
foo
that as well on the underside of the other tail wing and got
equally lousy results.
I gave up on the oil wash and used a water based instead. No problems
now, but I'm not sure what to use to seal in the wash.
Neil
Stephen Tontoni
Future is acrylic and it's usually clear, but the best way to get a
gloss from it is by dipping, not by airbrushing. Like he said, his
finish was supposed to be gloss, but was pebbly with the Future. You
can't rub out Future and it's designed to be fragile so that you can
remove it just by wiping another coat of it on your floors.
I'm just saying one will get more consistent results with a better
product.
Some people have great results with Future, but I feel that there's a
good deal of luck involved, and I've been bit too many times trying to
use Future as a gloss coat.
--- Stephen
Wayne C. Morris
> That's pretty much what I thought, but everything I read on the net
> implies that future (being acrylic) wouldn't react with the solvents
> for oil paints.
That's what folk say, though I haven't tried it myself.
But you used Testors Model Master for the wash. That's a solvent-based,
not an oil-based paint. "Oil paints" are the oil paints sold in small
tubes for artists, not the bottled enamel paints sold in model shops. And
they should be thinned with an appropriate thinner, such as a turpenoid.
You might also have applied both the Future and the wash too soon. I'd
wait a week before applying the Future, and another week before applying an
oil wash over the Future, so that the enamel paint and the Future have time
to cure completely.
If the wash was too dark, you probably didn't thin it enough. If done
properly, you shouldn't need to wipe any off. It takes practice to get it
right, so it's a good idea to practice on a cheap model that you don't care
about, or on the back side of a model part.
I've seen graininess in Future when it's airbrushed at the wrong air
pressure and/or distance, but never when it's brushed by hand. Did you try
to thin it? Future doesn't need thinning. Are you sure the painted
surface was completely smooth? Future is so much glossier than paint that
it will reveal how irregular the paint really was. It's usually a good
idea to wet-sand the surface lightly before each coat, with 1000 grit or
better. (Look for it in shops that sell automotive painting supplies.) Is
it possible that you just had a lot of dust in the air, or used a very
dusty brush, and the dust stuck to the Future?
Serge D. Grun
ton...@comcast.net says...
> Future is acrylic and it's usually clear, but the best way to get a
> gloss from it is by dipping, not by airbrushing. Like he said, his
> finish was supposed to be gloss, but was pebbly with the Future.
That's a problem with his airbrushing technique, not with Future.
--
-sdg
"Un gromono, mon royaume pour un gromono!"
Shakespeare - Richard III
jhbright
"Serge D. Grun" <sdg@gr***pf.org> wrote in message
news:MPG.1f0c456f9...@news.free.fr...
> In article <tontoni-191440...@comcast.dca.giganews.com>,
> ton...@comcast.net says...
>> Future is acrylic and it's usually clear, but the best way to get a
>> gloss from it is by dipping, not by airbrushing. Like he said, his
>> finish was supposed to be gloss, but was pebbly with the Future.
>
> That's a problem with his airbrushing technique, not with Future.
>
> --
> -sdg
There are a number of factors, that can be considered part of airbrushing
technique, that can contribute to the bad result that was obtained. As was
mentioned before, if the surface under the Future isn't smooth that
roughness will be accentuated by the gloss finish. Also, the properties of
Future itself, especially as it thickens a bit with age. In order to get a
smooth gloss coat with any paint it has to completely level itself when
applied and to get this you have to apply a "wet" coat. My own experience
with Future is even a wet coat wouldn't level well -- at least until too
much was applied and the result was a mess. Through some experimenting I
found that thinning with 91% isopropyl improved things in a big way. It took
less material to get a wet coat and it leveled very nicely. How much to
thin? Depends on the condition of the Future. Mine is several years old and
has probably thickened some even though it appeared to have the same
consistency as always. I thinned mine about 50-50. In fact in one instance
of a rough surface I sprayed straight alcohol -- the Future evidently went
back into solution, leveled and then cured smooth. I always keep sheets of
styrene handy and do test shots before I paint anything. A mix and a setting
that gave me good results at a previous time may not under different
temperature and humidity conditions. If I can't get a good test shot I quit
for the day rather than botch up a model.
Jim Bright