OT: Status of the D-Day Museum in New Orleans ?
cr...@earthlink.net
was the museum?
Craig
WmB
<cr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1125428953.9...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Looks like they could use a few 1000 Higgins boats now. How hard hit
> was the museum?
>
> Craig
>
I thought I saw an LCM in some of the footage from yesterday - grey with a
white wheelhouse astern - beached, ramp down, but otherwise appeared to be
Katrina proof.
WmB
Les Pickstock
> news:1125428953.9...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> Looks like they could use a few 1000 Higgins boats now. How hard hit
>> was the museum?
From what I remember the ground floor of the museum was nearly all given
over to hardware, most of which was designed to go into water. Documents
and fragile stuff was on the upper floors, possibly good forward planning on
someones part. The building itself stuck me as pretty substantial.
From the reports we're getting the French Quarter and the Garden District
suffered relatively minor flooding although it may not be over yet. The
Museum as I recall was approximatly half way between the two.
Bill Woodier
will likely be stolen in short order from the way it looks on the news down
there.
--
Cheers: Bill Woodier
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready
in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
My Home Page: http://www.bill-woodier.com/home.htm
--
<cr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1125428953.9...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Bill Woodier
won't be able to withstand the thieves.
--
Cheers: Bill Woodier
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready
in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
My Home Page: http://www.bill-woodier.com/home.htm
--
" Les Pickstock" <john.pi...@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:2S6Re.1834$k4....@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
Gray Ghost
news:CksRe.10889$um2.3874@trnddc03:
> Whatever of value (or even perceived value) that wasn't
washed or blown
> away will likely be stolen in short order from the way it
looks on the
> news down there.
It's vile ain't it. This is a part of humanity that is
revolting.
WmB
news:Xns96C3E493C4E45We...@216.196.97.136...
I didn't have a problem with the folks going after food, clothes and some
stuff like lights and batteries - but big screen TVs - in a city that is not
likely to see juice inside of 2-3 months. Insane. I'm trying to think
better of my fellow man but two thoughts keep running thru my mind with some
of the footage from N'Oleans - and God forgive me for it:
1) Darwin's law - the smart ones got out of town. Biloxi I think it was,
had a large loss of life at an oceanfront apartment complex. I'm thinking
ocean front means money, which means if you can afford to live there you
have means to leave town. Riding out a CAT5 hurricane in an ocean front
apartment is asking to die and if you're that reckless with your life,
well...
2) Stragglers ignoring the evacuation notice - many reasons why people who
choose to stay behind, do so. Most of the reasons are pretty dodgy at best -
I keep wondering how many stay behind in anticipation of cleaning out homes
and businesses while the city is abandoned, and how many in turn stay behind
to guard their property.
Like I said, I'm not all that proud that these things have kicked around in
my noggin of late, especially when it really doesn't matter - saving lives
is the real issue today. It just seems like a no brainer that when a CAT 5
storm lines you up in its crosshairs, any time before it makes landfall is a
good time to drive inland. I don't care what time of day or night it is. You
wouldn't have to go too far either - anyone that took refuge in the
Superdome survived Katrina as best I can tell.
I survived one hurricane - some scary shit. I don't care to see another
one. Take them seriously if you ever find yourself in one's path. Nothing
gets me cussing like the footage of the morons taking a dip in the surf as a
storm approaches. Before Katrina struck, I saw footage of a family of morons
(inc. young children) at the gulf getting their jollies off as they were
soaked by 20 foot rooster tails of sea water crashing violently into a low
rising wall they were standing behind.
Some kind of gene pool there.
WmB
Kaliste Saloom
HELLi...@earthlink.net says...
> Some kind of gene pool there.
>
>
Hurricanes are one of Nature's most destructive forces. Anyone who's
ridden out one, even a small one, comes to appreciate its power and
fury. Trust me, the higher order of that gene pool (90+%) left New
Orleans and the Mississippi Gulf Coast before the storm hit.
Unfortunately some didn't leave out of foolishness, but many couldn't
leave because of other legitimate circumstances. For instance,
critically ill patients in hospitals couldn't be readily moved. It is
estimated that the entire city could effectively be evacuated in 72
hours, however, the City really didn't have that much time. Some who
wanted to leave simply didn't make it out. Remember, the city survived
the hurricane. The subsequent breach of the levee structure surrounding
the city and protecting it from the flood waters of Lake Pothering is
what is wreaking havoc on the city now.
At the risk of sounding melodramatic, I'm afraid the collapse of New
Orleans' levee system will surpass the death and destruction of the
horrible events of 9/11. New York City experienced the sudden and
violent death of over 3,000 in the cowardly destruction of the twin
towers and adjacent buildings, but I fear the death toll in New Orleans
will unfortunately surpass this mark. Unlike New Orleans though, NYC had
its basic resources and infrastructure intact and was for the most part
able to return to some semblance of functional normalcy in a few days if
not weeks following the terrorist attacks. For the most part, 9/11's
survivors - even those having lost loved ones - could return to home and
eventually even work. The rest of the city was at worst temporarily
displaced or merely inconvenienced. Not to diminish the tragic loss of
lives and property, but NYC lost 3,000 people out of 8,000,000 and three
buildings (albeit large ones) out of thousands. Wall Street was back up
and running in a day or two and the city's economy recovered in a few
weeks. The nation's economy barely hiccupped. However, like Hiroshima
and Nagasaki, the ENTIRE city of New Orleans (and the Mississippi Gulf
Coast) has been totally devastated - possibly beyond repair. There is no
more New Orleans as we knew it. And the magnitude of its loss on the US
economy will be profound given the significance of New Orleans on the
nation's energy and shipping industries - not a disruption of money but
material and fuel.
One and a half million New Orleanians are now homeless and unemployed.
They will not be able to return even to view the devastation for weeks
to come and the city itself will not even be habitable for months, much
less return to normalcy. The region's entire economy is virtually
destroyed and will take years, if not generations, to recover. The same
can be said of the Mississippi Gulf Coast equally devastated.
Let's put this in perspective. The New Orleans MSA which on Friday had
over 1.5 million souls, today - only five days later - has a population
of less than 30,000 people - none with permanent dwellings to call home.
The situation will not change for months and possibly years to come.
Please pray for the dead and the survivors.
--
Kaliste Saloom
IPMS #30703
Acadiana Plastic Modelers
Lafayette, Louisiana USA
Kaliste Saloom
kal...@aol.com says...
>
> Lake Pothering
Lake Pontchatrain . . . damn spell checker.
Mad-Modeller
I thought perhaps it was a local colloquialism.
How were things in Lafayette?
Bill Banaszak, MFE
Kurt Laughlin
"Kaliste Saloom" <kal...@aol.com> wrote
> Please pray for the dead and the survivors.
The dead don't need them and the survivors can't eat, drink, wear, live
under, or shit into them. In other words, if you are telling people outside
the area to pray, you might as well be telling those people to do nothing.
You might also want to look back at the Gulf Coast newspapers from last
weekend. Seems everybody was praying that the storm would miss them. The
storm veered away from New Orleans and hit Gulfport. I guess voodoo spells
are more powerful than Southern Baptist prayers. . .
KL
Kurt Laughlin
" WmB" <HELLi...@earthlink.net> wrote
> Nothing gets me cussing like the footage of the morons taking a dip in the
> surf as a storm approaches. Before Katrina struck, I saw footage of a
> family of morons (inc. young children) at the gulf getting their jollies
> off as they were soaked by 20 foot rooster tails of sea water crashing
> violently into a low rising wall they were standing behind.
1. Cussing at whom? For what purpose?
2. Sounds like a wholesome family outing. Maybe they were tourists and left
30 minutes later. It's not like a Tsunami - everybody knew when and where
the storm was so it would not be hard to determine how much time you had
left.
KL
frank
frank
behind because they DID leave for Hurricane Ivan & others & they were
nothing, so they wasted all that time & money, so there was no reason
to leave for Katrina. Additionally, when everyone went to bed Sat.
night, she was a Cat. 3, yet Sun. morning, she was a fast moving Cat. 5
& still building, & headed for N.O. A lot of folks just didn't see a
need leave & then didn't have time.
Kaliste Saloom
> [Prayers] The dead don't need them and the survivors can't eat, drink, wear, live
> the area to pray, you might as well be telling those people to do nothing.
>
Kurt,
Well then, its obvious your superior worldly self knows better - so show
it. Instead of cursing the dark, why don't you turn on a light? I
suggest instead of doing "nothing" send money to the charities actually
helping out: U. S. Red Cross, Catholic Charities, Salvation Army to
name only a few. . . . But for the faithful, keep up the prayers, too.
> You might also want to look back at the Gulf Coast newspapers from last
> weekend. Seems everybody was praying that the storm would miss them. The
> storm veered away from New Orleans and hit Gulfport. I guess voodoo spells
> are more powerful than Southern Baptist prayers. . .
>
>
Damned straight we were praying that the storm wouldn't hit us - not for
it to hit someone else. No soldier in a fox hole was happy his buddy
got it instead of him, only that he's still alive. With that said,
nobody "won" the battle of prayers. Even the most righteous and
innocent must drink from the cup... Such is life.
Arcusinoz
probably a bit to do with global warming ?
Kaliste Saloom
says...
> Kaliste Saloom wrote:
> >
> > In article <MPG.1d803f145...@news.cox-internet.com>,
> > kal...@aol.com says...
> > >
> > > Lake Pothering
> >
> > Lake Pontchatrain . . . damn spell checker.
> > --
> > Kaliste Saloom
Bill,
Thanks for asking. Unlike hurricanes Andrew and Lily which hit us
pretty hard, we faired pretty well with Katrina. Very little damage,
having only gusty tropical storm-like winds and some rain. The amazing
thing is we were about 150 miles west of Katrina's eye (on the weakest
side of the storm) and we still felt some of its effects. It was a
devastatingly massive storm. Our city is now a major refuge for the
survivors. We are expecting to house maybe tens of thousands of New
Orleanians for the next several months. Our city's population of about
125,000 may grow by 25-50% for some time. Children are being re-
enrolled in our schools, all available temporary and permanent housing
is being utilized to capacity. There are reports of people purchasing
homes here because of the expected delay in returning home.
Once the largest MSA in the state and in the top 25 in the nation, New
Orleans' permanent civilian population will hover around zero for the
next few weeks or months.
New Orleans is - was - a grand city. Full of history, culture and
wonderfully diverse and resilient people. Most I've spoken to will
return and rebuild. I look forward to its full recovery.
On a modeller's note, New Orleans had a large model club (IPMS Flying
Tigers) membership of which I have several friends and many
acquaintances. I do not yet know the status of my buddies - but I
believe all are well as most left before the storm hit. I did hear from
the proprietor of the city's largest and oldest hobby store - Hub Hobby.
The store survived the storm but was demolished in the following flood.
Kaliste
WmB
> they just don't really know fer shure yet.
Yep - despite the best efforts of many to pretend that they do. One of the
washed up Kennedys who wasn't able to pimp the family name beyond a stint in
Congress actually pinned Katrina on Bush. I think he was the Kennedy last
seen bouncing up and down on his kids' babysitter.
WmB
rwsm...@rcn.com
> Bigger and uglier hurricanes ........will happen again .....its
> probably a bit to do with global warming ?
There was a general lull in the number and ferocity of hurricanes from
about 1940 to 1990, we're seeing a return to "normal" storms. What we
didn't have before the lull was such massive infrastructure to destroy
in hurricane alley.
rwsm...@rcn.com
> In article <1125579562.2...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, "Arcusinoz" <boo...@smartchat.net.au> wrote:
>
>
>>Bigger and uglier hurricanes ........will happen again .....its
>>probably a bit to do with global warming ?
>>
>
> according to the science channel, more to do with cycles.
> even the warmong may be cyclic. precursor to an ice age.
> they just don't really know fer shure yet.
Google "the little climactic optimum" sometime.
rwsm...@rcn.com
Robert Jr.
William H. Shuey
Local TV station just announced that "Fats" Domino is among the
missing. Too Bad! He probably could have afforded to leave, but leaving
"home" is sometimes just too painful.
A Professor of mine some years ago pointed to New Orleans as a disaster
waiting to happen. He was referring to the city being basically below
water level, with that unpronounceable lake to the North and a couple of
canals and the river and the ocean, it was just a matter of time till
this happened.
It's like here in Baltimore, the "Jewel of the Chesapeake". The weather
experts say that if a Hurricane comes straight up the Chesapeake we are
gonna look like N.O. That one a year ago passed inland but close enough
to scare the bejesus out of yours truly and it was losing power by the
time it dropped trees on my street.
It mike make sense to write N.O. off instead of re-building it. It will
probably cost as much to rebuild as to re-locate the people and give
industries and businesses a tax break to help with re-locating expenses.
If we rebuild it, the location is still it's weakness and sooner or
later there will be another Katrina.
Bill Shuey
Kurt Laughlin
"William H. Shuey" <whs...@starpower.net> wrote
> It might make sense to write N.O. off instead of re-building it. It will
> probably cost as much to rebuild as to re-locate the people and give
> industries and businesses a tax break to help with re-locating expenses.
> If we rebuild it, the location is still it's weakness and sooner or
> later there will be another Katrina.
It won't be a decision based on logic.
KL
Andyr...@aol.com
walking around the Inner Harbor when a squall blew in, coinciding with
high tide.
Practically all of the wharves and piers were water-covered - just from
a squall. I can only imagine what would happen if, as you point out, a
hurricane of any intensity were to come up the Chesapeake.
Andy
Mad-Modeller
I can think of a few exceptions. New England got pummeled quite hard in
'55 IIRC. I remember weathering Hazel when a kid and we all remember
Agnes here in the Northeast.
Bill Banaszak, MFE
Mad-Modeller
I was just looking at an old map of Louisiana tonight and located
Lafayette so I know where you are now. We were on the east side when
Katrina passed by. No major damage but there are quite a few tree limbs
strewn about the neighbourhood. The severest weather was in Adams and
Cumberland counties where tornadoes touched down. A few barns passed
into history.
Those who know Adams County can rest assured that all this was east of
Gettysburg.
Bill Banaszak, MFE
whose daughter is a New Orleans fan and was a visitor a couple of years
back...
Mad-Modeller
We'd be shitting bricks up here above the head of the bay.
Bill Banaszak, MFE
Kaliste Saloom
says...
> mike make sense to write N.O. off instead of re-building it. It will
> probably cost as much to rebuild as to re-locate the people and give
> industries and businesses a tax break to help with re-locating expenses.
> If we rebuild it, the location is still it's weakness and sooner or
> later there will be another Katrina.
>
>
Wow, now I see the light - thanks! While we are at it lets do some
advanced preparation. Of course the 1/3 of the nation's population
within 20 miles of a coast line should be immediately moved to avoid
hurricanes and tsunamis. All coastal cities evacuated, abandoned and
demolished: NYC, Boston, Washington DC, Baltimore (your hometown),
Jacksonville, Miami, the Keys, Tampa, Mobile, Lafayette (my hometown),
Houston, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle, Nome. Oh and
let's not forget the entire state of Hawaii, to name just a few. What
about the earthquake, mud slide and avalanche prone areas? The tornado
alleys of the central US? The cities in the flood planes of the major
rivers of the US? The ice storm prone Northern states. Let's see, to
avoid these pesky and expensive rebuilding efforts of these selfish
peoples who dare live in risky environments, we move the entire
population of the US to Arizona, New Mexico and Utah. Yeah, that should
do it. Is there a repellant spray for scorpions and rattle snakes?
rwsm...@rcn.com
> A Professor of mine some years ago pointed to New Orleans as a disaster
> waiting to happen.
It was pointed out around 1993 when levees upstream broke, it was
pointed out again in 2001 in a Corps of Engineers report.....
> It's like here in Baltimore, the "Jewel of the Chesapeake". The weather
> experts say that if a Hurricane comes straight up the Chesapeake we are
> gonna look like N.O. That one a year ago passed inland but close enough
> to scare the bejesus out of yours truly and it was losing power by the
> time it dropped trees on my street.
That's what happens when you live on the water, it can rise up and bite
you in the ass. Same thing goes for living in tornado alley, the wind
gets all pissy and trashes mobile homes. California you have an area
known for earthquakes, mudsildes and wildfires....I geuss the planet
doesn't like granola either....;)
> It mike make sense to write N.O. off instead of re-building it. It will
> probably cost as much to rebuild as to re-locate the people and give
> industries and businesses a tax break to help with re-locating expenses.
> If we rebuild it, the location is still it's weakness and sooner or
> later there will be another Katrina.
Unfortunately you overlook the fact that is THE major port for the US
heartland. The Mississippi River system pretty much dictates a port
there for economic reasons. The best bet would be to blast the delta and
Lake Ponchartrain into a huge harbor, rebuild the port and refinery
facilities on at least slightly higher ground with Dutch ctyle seawalls
and not rebuild the residential areas in such a stupid place.
rwsm...@rcn.com
I did NOT say there were no bad hurricanes, simply that they were less
in number and ferocity in general. You forgot Cecille and David (rapidly
followed by Fred).
Gray Ghost
p...@rcn.net:
Nor the media mircroscope to see the anguish in every victim's eye. People
so stupidly believe that their time on earth is so unique, when in fact in
is no more or less than a moment in a varied cycle.
Frank
William H. Shuey
Let's not forget Andrew (91') Got my first field trip out of the agency
in that clean up. People were a mess but the alligators, snakes and
mosquitos survived just fine!
Bill Shuey
William H. Shuey
>
> William H. Shuey wrote:
>
> > A Professor of mine some years ago pointed to New Orleans
> >as a disaster waiting to happen.
> The best bet would be to blast the delta and
> Lake Ponchartrain into a huge harbor, rebuild the port and refinery
> facilities on at least slightly higher ground with Dutch ctyle seawalls
> and not rebuild the residential areas in such a stupid place.
Unfortunately, there is this animal called a developer and he has a
tendency to build where ever he can buy the land and then sell to some
one who wouldn't know sea level from his knothole. They will probably
make a big emotional appeal to "rebuild the birth place of jazz" or some
such and common sense will never even enter the argument.
Bill Shuey
Doug Wagner
"Kaliste Saloom" <kal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d81a08ca...@news.cox-internet.com...
I think the problem is not the proximity to water, rather it lies in being
below sea level.
Doug Wagner
Bill Woodier
--
Cheers: Bill Woodier
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready
in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
My Home Page: http://www.bill-woodier.com/home.htm
--
"Gray Ghost" <grey_ghost47...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96C3E493C4E45We...@216.196.97.136...
> "Bill Woodier" <bill-w...@verizon.net> wrote in
> news:CksRe.10889$um2.3874@trnddc03:
>
>> Whatever of value (or even perceived value) that wasn't
> washed or blown
>> away will likely be stolen in short order from the way it
> looks on the
>> news down there.
>
> It's vile ain't it. This is a part of humanity that is
> revolting.
Bill Woodier
about Biloxi is that many of them had been through another deadly Cat 5
hurricane before. I spent over four years in Biloxi in the early 1980s
(before all the casino boats). There were still old foundations along Hwy
90 from where Camille took down most of the beachfront buildings then. One
of the nurses that works for my wife has family down there. She spoke with
her brother on the phone before the stork hit and begged him to leave but he
said he and his wife and kids were going to ride it out. When she asked
what his plan was for flooding and a storm surge, he told her he was going
to drag his peerogue up and tie it to the house. If the water got too high,
they'd get in the boat and be safe. As of today, no one has heard from any
of them. A line from Forrest Gump comes to mind...."I'm not a smart
man....."
I can understand a small percentage (a very small percentage) of New
Orleanians who physically couldn't evacuate but I don't think that 10,000
people fell into that category. Of course, I suspect that some of them knew
that if they left, they wouldn't be able to get back in to loot and steal.
I remember all the announcements prior to the hurricane coming ashore that
warned people to evacuate. They also warned that, if the people of NO
didn't evacuate before the storm hits, they will be without power for an
extended period of time. will be without food and water and emergency
services personnel would not be able to reach them for an extended period of
time. Sooooo, why did 10,000 people not heed the warnings and evacuate?
Beats me? Why are they surprised that it's taking a while to get emergency
services to these people? Beats me?
--
Cheers: Bill Woodier
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready
in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
My Home Page: http://www.bill-woodier.com/home.htm
--
" WmB" <HELLi...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:RduRe.4845$_84....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> "Gray Ghost" <grey_ghost47...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns96C3E493C4E45We...@216.196.97.136...
>> "Bill Woodier" <bill-w...@verizon.net> wrote in
>> news:CksRe.10889$um2.3874@trnddc03:
>>
>>> Whatever of value (or even perceived value) that wasn't
>> washed or blown
>>> away will likely be stolen in short order from the way it
>> looks on the
>>> news down there.
>>
>> It's vile ain't it. This is a part of humanity that is
>> revolting.
>
> I didn't have a problem with the folks going after food, clothes and some
> stuff like lights and batteries - but big screen TVs - in a city that is
> not likely to see juice inside of 2-3 months. Insane. I'm trying to
> think better of my fellow man but two thoughts keep running thru my mind
> with some of the footage from N'Oleans - and God forgive me for it:
>
> 1) Darwin's law - the smart ones got out of town. Biloxi I think it was,
> had a large loss of life at an oceanfront apartment complex. I'm thinking
> ocean front means money, which means if you can afford to live there you
> have means to leave town. Riding out a CAT5 hurricane in an ocean front
> apartment is asking to die and if you're that reckless with your life,
> well...
>
> 2) Stragglers ignoring the evacuation notice - many reasons why people who
> choose to stay behind, do so. Most of the reasons are pretty dodgy at
> best - I keep wondering how many stay behind in anticipation of cleaning
> out homes and businesses while the city is abandoned, and how many in turn
> stay behind to guard their property.
> Like I said, I'm not all that proud that these things have kicked around
> in my noggin of late, especially when it really doesn't matter - saving
> lives is the real issue today. It just seems like a no brainer that when a
> CAT 5 storm lines you up in its crosshairs, any time before it makes
> landfall is a good time to drive inland. I don't care what time of day or
> night it is. You wouldn't have to go too far either - anyone that took
> refuge in the Superdome survived Katrina as best I can tell.
>
> I survived one hurricane - some scary shit. I don't care to see another
> one. Take them seriously if you ever find yourself in one's path. Nothing
> gets me cussing like the footage of the morons taking a dip in the surf as
> a storm approaches. Before Katrina struck, I saw footage of a family of
> morons (inc. young children) at the gulf getting their jollies off as they
> were soaked by 20 foot rooster tails of sea water crashing violently into
> a low rising wall they were standing behind.
>
> Some kind of gene pool there.
>
> WmB
>
Mad-Modeller
>
> Let's not forget Andrew (91') Got my first field trip out of the agency
> in that clean up. People were a mess but the alligators, snakes and
> mosquitos survived just fine!
>
> Bill Shuey
Why not? Their ancestors lived there before the coming of the
erect-walking apes.
On the news tonight I heard the Guard talking about the various
poisonous snakes in the area that workers are going to have to deal
with. "You too can be on Wild Kingdom!"
Oooo, I hate snakes!
Bill Banaszak, MFE
Mad-Modeller
we? I know, the Netherlands doesn't get many Category 5 hurricanes but
there are still ways to improve the situation down there. It will
require a large effort but now would be a good time to start.
Bill Banaszak, MFE
Dave Williams
"Mad-Modeller" <checkr...@nextline.com> wrote in message
news:4319193F...@nextline.com...
I think it's safe to say the Dutch don't get any Cat 5 hurricanes, or
anything even remotely similar.
Dave
Al Superczynski
<dwil...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>I think it's safe to say the Dutch don't get any Cat 5 hurricanes, or
>anything even remotely similar.
I don't think they're surrounded by water on all sides either.
--
Al Superczynski, MFE, IPMS/USA #3795, continuous since 1968
My "From" address is munged - click "Reply To" to respond via email.
Check out my want lists and eBay listings at "Al's Place":
http://www.network54.com/realm/modeleral/
"Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to,
and the critics will flame you every time."
Kaliste Saloom
says...
> I can understand a small percentage (a very small percentage) of New
> Orleanians who physically couldn't evacuate but I don't think that 10,000
> people fell into that category.
>
The New Orleans MSA is 1.5MM. So...
10,000/1,500,000=0.00667 I'd say that's a very small percentage. But
Thank God, you're not in charge. What a callous attitude. If that is
the nature of your character Bill, go back to building models, the rest
of the country will help (re)build the city. New Orleans will rebuild
and return. It's the American (and New Orleanian) way.
Like a wise man once said,
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even
though checkered by failure than to take rank with those poor spirits
who neither enjoy much nor suffer much because they live in the gray
twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
rwsm...@rcn.com
>>>>There was a general lull in the number and ferocity of hurricanes from
>>>>about 1940 to 1990,
> Let's not forget Andrew (91') Got my first field trip out of the agency
> in that clean up. People were a mess but the alligators, snakes and
> mosquitos survived just fine!
I left out all post 1990 hurricanes.....
rwsm...@rcn.com
>>The best bet would be to blast the delta and
>>Lake Ponchartrain into a huge harbor, rebuild the port and refinery
>>facilities on at least slightly higher ground with Dutch ctyle seawalls
>>and not rebuild the residential areas in such a stupid place.
> Unfortunately, there is this animal called a developer and he has a
> tendency to build where ever he can buy the land and then sell to some
> one who wouldn't know sea level from his knothole. They will probably
> make a big emotional appeal to "rebuild the birth place of jazz" or some
> such and common sense will never even enter the argument.
If they want to be that damned stupid, let them. Darwinism will raise
its head again.
Dan drumm
it worked for San Francisco in 1903
Dan drumm
William H. Shuey
Right! But the taxpayers, not Darwin, get stuck with the bill.
Bill Shuey
William H. Shuey
>
> Thank God, you're not in charge. What a callous attitude. If that is
> the nature of your character Bill, go back to building models, the rest
> of the country will help (re)build the city. New Orleans will rebuild
> and return. It's the American (and New Orleanian) way.
This guy is a flaming idiot!
Bill Shuey
Kaliste Saloom
says...
Bill,
Like looters, there are some people in this world that are insensitive
to the plight and hope of others. The only suffering or dream they heed
or value is their own.
Thanks.
Kaliste
Bill Woodier
rebuilt and taxpayers everywhere will pay a large chunk of the freight.
Perhaps we should have some say in how it's rebuilt. Hopefully it will be a
better city that the cesspool it was before. When it is rebuilt, perhaps
they'll be smart enough to put it on land that's above the waterline this
time.
From what I've seen on the almost continuous media coverage, most of those
looters and others running around seemed healthy enough to have evacuated if
they wanted to. Hell, if it was me and a Cat-5 storm was coming, If I was
able-bodied enough to carry a television on my back, I'd find a way to get
out of the path of the storm some way. If I had no car I'd take a bus or a
train, or even walk out if there (but then, my parents raised me to be
fairly self-reliant).
As far as helping out, as one of a small minority of people with experience
in researching and identifying war casualties, I'm on standby to go down
there. By the way, how come you're sitting at your computer typing out RMS
posts. Shouldn't you be out there helping people?
--
Cheers: Bill Woodier
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready
in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
My Home Page: http://www.bill-woodier.com/home.htm
--
"Kaliste Saloom" <kal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d82fe35b...@news.cox-internet.com...
rwsm...@rcn.com
I'm sure as hell not willing to bet rebuilding New Orleans is a worthy
investment and I sure as hell don't want to pay for it.
William H. Shuey
>
> In article <4319E6E3...@starpower.net>, whs...@starpower.net
> says...
> > Kaliste Saloom wrote:
> > >
> >
> > > Thank God, you're not in charge. What a callous attitude. If that is
> > > the nature of your character Bill, go back to building models, the rest
> > > of the country will help (re)build the city. New Orleans will rebuild
> > > and return. It's the American (and New Orleanian) way.
> >
> >
> > This guy is a flaming idiot!
>
> Bill,
>
> Like looters, there are some people in this world that are insensitive
> to the plight and hope of others. The only suffering or dream they heed
> or value is their own.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Kaliste
K:
I'm not insensitive to the plight of the people, just to the idea of
repeating the mistake that got them in the plight they are in which is
building a city essentially below sea level in Hurricane alley. It
probably will cost just as much to re-build NO as it will to help people
re-locate. But, re locating to higher ground will at least prevent a
repeat of this mess. They have known for years that NO was a disaster
waiting to happen but nothing was done, not by the state or Louisiana
and not by the Federal Government. The Corps of Engineers have gone to
Congress several times for $$ to shore up those sea walls and dikes and
Congress always said no! This is both Republican and Democratic
controlled Congress.
And the State of Louisiana hasn't been willing to spend the $$ either.
They are all pointing at President Bush but there is blame enough to go
around for all in this matter.
Bill Shuey
-ex-
> K:
>
> I'm not insensitive to the plight of the people, just to the idea of
> repeating the mistake that got them in the plight they are in which is
> building a city essentially below sea level in Hurricane alley. It
> probably will cost just as much to re-build NO as it will to help people
> re-locate. But, re locating to higher ground will at least prevent a
> repeat of this mess. They have known for years that NO was a disaster
> waiting to happen but nothing was done, not by the state or Louisiana
> and not by the Federal Government. The Corps of Engineers have gone to
> Congress several times for $$ to shore up those sea walls and dikes and
> Congress always said no! This is both Republican and Democratic
> controlled Congress.
> And the State of Louisiana hasn't been willing to spend the $$ either.
> They are all pointing at President Bush but there is blame enough to go
> around for all in this matter.
>
> Bill Shuey
I have a sneaky suspicion that NOLA will have rebuilt itself before all
the "good ideas" have been aired. One of the realities is that the
currently flooded area is only about 1/3 of the metropolitan area. As
of Monday, residents of Jefferson Parish may return home, albeit with a
ton of avisos. For those who aren't familiar with the area, Jeff Parish
and Metairie are on the other side of the westernmost canal that was
breeched on its eastern bank. Could have easily been vice-versa...but
it wasn't in this case.
The West Bank of the river remained unflooded for the most part as well.
Thats not meant to minimize the proportions of the disaster. The city's
core and the home of half-million residents are in shambles. Many of
these neighborhoods will simply have to be bulldozed away and many folks
won't have a neighbourhood to return to even if they choose to do so.
What to do with these areas? Ask someone with a crystal ball. Raising
their elevation by filling them in isn't logical because they would
simply be isolated islands in the lower state geography next time a cat
5 hits. Leave 'em empty? Make a big fuggin park? I don't know.
I suspect that the city will be put back basically like it was with more
attention (money) paid to the levee system. To abandon the flooded city
centre would be more of a tragedy to the surrounding area than what the
storm caused.
The same WILL happen again...just as sure as California earthquakes and
wildfires and mudslides. No one can ever totally prepared for this
magnitude but hopefully next time the authorities will have their act in
better order.
Sri for ranting OT,
Bill
Greg Heilers
[[[ Most of the posting truncated, out of concern for mankind. ]]]
> Let's see, to
> avoid these pesky and expensive rebuilding efforts of these selfish
> peoples who dare live in risky environments, we move the entire
> population of the US to Arizona, New Mexico and Utah. Yeah, that should
> do it. Is there a repellant spray for scorpions and rattle snakes?
>
Judging by the content of your postings, you *do* seem like the type
who would blame the Federal Government for not doing enough to prevent
*you* from being stung by a scorpion.
And yes...there *was* a fairly effective "scorpion repellant" in common
use...but the Liberals had it "outlawed". Rattlesnakes, on the other hand,
you do *not* want to kill. In this part of the country, they are harvested
for eatin' purposes. YUMMY!!!
--
Greg Heilers
Registered Linux user #328317 - SlackWare 10.1 (2.6.10)
.....
Bart: Dad, you killed the Zombie Flanders!
Homer: He was a zombie?
Treehouse of Horror III
William H. Shuey
>
> The same WILL happen again...just as sure as California earthquakes and
> wildfires and mudslides. No one can ever totally prepared for this
> magnitude but hopefully next time the authorities will have their act in
> better order.
I wouldn't bet on that last thought, being somewhat familiar with
Louisiana Politics.
Bill Shuey
Kaliste Saloom
says...
> I'm on standby to go down
> there. By the way, how come you're sitting at your computer typing out RMS
> posts. Shouldn't you be out there helping people?
>
>
Well aside from giving financial aid, helping house refugees and find
their children space in local schools, donating legal assistance,
donating space to allow others to conduct some personal business and
communicate with others, oh yeah and taking care of my own family and
business, I guess I don't have much else to do.
Oh, yeah, I also am a participating member of a group who are setting up
free computer access in our city's refugee centers so that storm
refugees can check their email and who knows perhaps post on RMS too...
If they do, I know they'd be ashamed for and angered at the callousness
of some people on this board regarding their plight.
maie...@netscape.com
Where did you work during Andrew?
I was the shelter manager at Robert E. Lee Junior High School in Miami.
Started with 500+, about 100 when I left. FEMA offices used part of the
old school to find housing for people whose homes were just plain gone.
My one day off was spent at Kermit Weeks' museum, or rather what was
left of it. The damage was extensive, but (except for the buildings)
most were eventually restored to display condition.
What really got to me was driving from Miami to Homestead and seeing
nothing but devastation. Trailer parks and homes can understand, but
seeing big apartment buildings and shopping centers just demolished
was a shock.
Tom
Bill Woodier
I was deployed to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait with Lt Gen Mike Nelson
establishing Operation SOUTHERN WATCH and initiating the Southern No-fly
zone.
--
Cheers: Bill Woodier
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready
in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
My Home Page: http://www.bill-woodier.com/home.htm
--
<maie...@netscape.com> wrote in message
news:1125952324.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
William H. Shuey
Tom:
I was at Homestead. We had a site there, after the storm we had a 40' X
60' concrete slab, swept clean! I called my boss to report and he asked
where was the equipment? I said somewhere back in the swamps. He said I
should go look for it. I said the snakes and gators had survived just
fine and if he thought any of the equipment was still usable he could go
look for it himself.
Dedication can be carried too far!
Bill Shuey
Nick Pedley
<cr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1125428953.9...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Looks like they could use a few 1000 Higgins boats now. How hard hit
> was the museum?
>
> Craig
>
http://www.aam-us.org/aamlatest/news/HurricaneFirstReports.cfm
The D-Day museum is apparently intact with no damage or looting (as reported
elsewhere). It sounds like they did better than many other places in the
disaster area.
The USS Alabama in Mobile has a slight tilt and the neightbouring air museum
is a mess with many aircraft needing major repairs. The staff took shelter
in the battleship which (unsurprisingly!) weathered the storm rather well.
Nick
John Mianowski
<nichola...@npedley.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>The USS Alabama in Mobile has a slight tilt and the neightbouring air museum
>is a mess with many aircraft needing major repairs. The staff took shelter
>in the battleship which (unsurprisingly!) weathered the storm rather well.
>
>Nick
>
What I read about USS Alabama was that it got that same tilt from
other hurricanes - it's no big deal & they know how to fix it when the
time comes. Apparently, it buttons up pretty well.
JM
Nick Pedley
"John Mianowski" <spam...@skytex.net> wrote in message
news:d6t1i19jh4qgti8t6...@4ax.com...
compartments down below? Bit of pumping out and cleaning up.
Nick
John Mianowski
<nichola...@npedley.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>"John Mianowski" <spam...@skytex.net> wrote in message
>news:d6t1i19jh4qgti8t6...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 01:14:17 +0100, "Nick Pedley"
>> <nichola...@npedley.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >The USS Alabama in Mobile has a slight tilt and the neightbouring air
>museum
>> >is a mess with many aircraft needing major repairs. The staff took
>shelter
>> >in the battleship which (unsurprisingly!) weathered the storm rather
>well.
>> >
>> >Nick
>> >
>>
>> What I read about USS Alabama was that it got that same tilt from
>> other hurricanes - it's no big deal & they know how to fix it when the
>> time comes. Apparently, it buttons up pretty well.
>>
>Would I be right in guessing it's just a small leak in some sealed
>compartments down below? Bit of pumping out and cleaning up.
>
>Nick
>
My guess is that it was picked up by the storm surge & settled back
into mud that had partially filled the depression where it normally
sits. Maybe a couple of weeks suction dredging to level it out again?
A small leak would be an ongoing issue, not just suddenly appear when
the storm hit (not that there might not be plenty of those as well).
JM
Bruce Burden
:
: A small leak would be an ongoing issue, not just suddenly appear when
: the storm hit (not that there might not be plenty of those as well).
If the site is without power, then the bilge pumps are
not running, and that would account for a slight list.
Normally, the bilge pumps will deal with the seepage.
Bruce
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I like bad!" Bruce Burden Austin, TX.
- Thuganlitha
The Power and the Prophet
Robert Don Hughes
Bill Woodier
seems looters broke in there while the caretaker was inside. According to
the caretaker, the looters ransacked the office spaces and took computers
and some other office-type stuff but didn't bother with the historical
items.
--
Cheers: Bill Woodier
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready
in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
My Home Page: http://www.bill-woodier.com/home.htm
--
"Bruce Burden" <bru...@realtime.net> wrote in message
news:dftlj...@enews2.newsguy.com...
John Mianowski
wrote:
>John Mianowski <spam...@skytex.net> wrote:
>:
>: A small leak would be an ongoing issue, not just suddenly appear when
>: the storm hit (not that there might not be plenty of those as well).
>:
> If the site is without power, then the bilge pumps are
> not running, and that would account for a slight list.
>
> Normally, the bilge pumps will deal with the seepage.
>
> Bruce
Sure, but it's not going to show up noticeably, instantly, unless it's
a very unstable ship to begin with.
JM