Good Estes Nozzle Clay News
Fred Shecter
with strange and wonderful new clay. it looks like the concrete terrazzo
used for the floors of the main MIT buildings. ZERO erosion during firing.
One seriously experienced flyer said the D12 actually sounded and performed
like a D12 used to (unlike some recent years where the nozzle erodes during
flight reducing and/or vectoring thrust). I watched the D12 flight and it
was straighter and higher than the same model on a "normal/recent" D12.
Two B6-4 motors from a starter set were also flown with the new clay. Post
flight inspection looked perfect.
BRAVO!
Two people took photos. One was digital and he may e-mail it to me Monday so
I can post it on the YahooGroup ABMR. The other was an expert photographer
with a BIG lens and he took a macro shot of a new nozzle before firing. It's
normal film, so we have to wait until later in the week until he gets the
picture CD back for posting.
Of course, you can all go run out to your local stores and start looking for
the new clay....
This is good news for the models that need all of the thrust that the motors
were designed to produce (like the Maxi V-2) and for all models since
vectored thrust was not good at all.
Now to start burning up several hundred of the old motors.....
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
OkieDokie
"Fred Shecter" wrote ...
> Yippee. Two different people attended today's launch with new Estes
motors
> with strange and wonderful new clay. it looks like the concrete terrazzo
> used for the floors of the main MIT buildings. ZERO erosion during
firing.
How does one distinguish the old nozzles from the new?
Fred Shecter
I'll try to describe:
Old good nozzles were granular gray concrete looking. Newer poopy-clay
nozzles were VERY white and powdery. Not-so-poopy-clay followed and reduced
the erosion. It was not-so-white, but not quite like the "good-old-clay.
The new stuff has multi-colored bits of differing shades of gray. I have a
used B6-4 and I may crush it with pliers to compare to a used poopy-clay
nozzle. I ASSume that it will be more crush resistant.
Gotta go for the night...
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
"OkieDokie" <Rocket1...@hiwaay.net> wrote in message
news:CkRZ7.144492$lV4.24...@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
Jim Z in VT
> I may crush it with pliers........
"Don't crush that dwarf, hand ME the pliers"
(Firesign Theater, circa 1970?)
Jim
Eric Benner
like then compare that to your motor nozzles. How hard could it be?
--
Eric Benner TRA 8975
"OkieDokie" <Rocket1...@hiwaay.net> wrote in message
news:CkRZ7.144492$lV4.24...@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
>
buf...@thisaddress.com
invented here" Estes management is about Centuri technology. They've
been phasing it in for 25 years as if no one would notice. Give me
Pass Port Staging!!!!
Paul
Bob Kaplow
> Sounds like the old Centuri Enerjet BP nozzle, It's amazing how "not
> invented here" Estes management is about Centuri technology. They've
> been phasing it in for 25 years as if no one would notice. Give me
> Pass Port Staging!!!!
There's no body left in Penrose that remembers what centuri had back before
Centuri was assimilated by Estes. In spite of the fact that they all now
work for "Centuri Corporation".
:-(
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Ctrl-Alt-Del"
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://www.pleimling.org/le/MayJun00.pdf
NIRA: http://www.nira.chicago.il.us NAR: http://www.nar.org
We must have faith in our democratic system and our Constitution,
and in our ability to protect at the same time both the freedom and
the security of all Americans.
26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy
Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/
Mario Perdue
>Give me Pass Port Staging!!!!
How is that different from the Estes 'Pop-n-Go' staging implemented a
bit earlier?
Mario Perdue
NAR #22012 Sr. L2
http://www.indyrockets.org
"X-ray-Delta-One, this is Mission Control, two-one-five-six, transmission concluded."
Sams Family
> >Give me Pass Port Staging!!!!
Mario Perdue wrote:
> How is that different from the Estes 'Pop-n-Go' staging implemented a
> bit earlier?
>
There's a Centuri tech report (TIR-123) on Passport here:
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~buzznau/centuri.html
It appears to be a cross between flush taping the motors and gap staging. The
motors are butted against one another sans tape. A special oversize coupler tube
sits around the joint between the motor tubes. (This tube is similar to the
Totally Tubular "plus" series - eg, T-5+, T20+.) It has vent holes in it (ala
gap staging) just below the upper stage motor's aft end. When the pressure
builds up between the motors, the aft section begins to slide aft whereupon the
vent holes are uncovered to relieve the pressure.
FWIW: The report is poorly written, and the drawings are not entirely correct.
The vent/coupler is depicted as being attached to the upper stage with the holes
aft of the upper motor in one drawing, but the other drawings indicate the
vent/coupler is affixed to the forward end of the booster with the holes just
ahead of the booster motor's forward end.
(I assume flush taping is the same as Pop-n-go, BICBW. If not, someone please
describe it.)
Doug
--
samily at flash dot net
Sams Family
buf...@thisaddress.com wrote:
>
> Sounds like the old Centuri Enerjet BP nozzle, It's amazing how "not
> invented here" Estes management is about Centuri technology. They've
> been phasing it in for 25 years as if no one would notice.
Well, I do wish they'd re-invent the 1/100 scale Saturn 1B :)
While I can see your point to some extent, bear in mind that Estes was amking
Centuri's 18mm motors all along, and some of their 13mm motors, too. That
expertise was Estes' all along.
I have wondered whether Estes ever tried to utilize any of the expertise Centuri
had with their bigger motors.
Mario Perdue
wrote:
>(I assume flush taping is the same as Pop-n-go, BICBW. If not, someone please
>describe it.)
Pop-n-Go was Estes' method of doing basically the same thing;
eliminate taping the motors together. It first appeared around '69 or
'70 with the Shrike and the Omega.
Mario Perdue
wrote:
>Well, I do wish they'd re-invent the 1/100 scale Saturn 1B :)
Yeah, me too. I've got the plastic parts and most of the wraps (the
paper ones from the original Saturn V) so I guess I'll just have to
roll my own.
Brett Buck
wrote on 1/6/02 4:39 PM:
>
> While I can see your point to some extent, bear in mind that Estes was amking
> Centuri's 18mm motors all along, and some of their 13mm motors, too. That
> expertise was Estes' all along.
I would mildly debate that point. I remember (dimly) that the Centuri
18mm engines were distinctly different from Estes motors in the mid-late
60's. Sometime in the late 60's, Estes started making them all.
The first run of Centuri 13mm engines were much more like AVI motors
(2.25", funny colors, green and/or blue, don't ask me, I'm allegedly
color-blind) than Estes. These were discontinued about when AVI imploded,
and miraculously, the new ones were the little stubby Estes motors, and the
Centuri B motors had been discontinued (since you couldn't get enough BP in
the 1.75" case to make a decent B). I'm sure Mr. Kaplow could take a night
off from his ACLU meetings to compare AVI and Centuri "first run" motors for
comparison ;-).
Brett
Sams Family
I wrote:
> > While I can see your point to some extent, bear in mind that Estes was making
> > Centuri's 18mm motors all along, and some of their 13mm motors, too. That
> > expertise was Estes' all along.
>
> I would mildly debate that point. I remember (dimly) that the Centuri
> 18mm engines were distinctly different from Estes motors in the mid-late
> 60's. Sometime in the late 60's, Estes started making them all.
>
A few months ago, I compiled a list of all the motors listed in the catalogs at
ninfinger, and, IIRC - my list is nowhere handy - the Centuri 18mm motors
matched the Estes character for character in the 60's. The exceptions were that
Centuri would not always carry all delay variants of a given type. Also, ISTR
that there was a B14-3 that only Centuri carried. Centuri's offering would
usually lag about 1 year behind Estes, so comparing the catalogs circa 1969 -
when the metric designations came in - would show markedly different motor
offerings. That could explain what you saw.
Other exceptions involved the C5. Centuri had it first, and also had a booster
(C5-0) version. I suspect Centuri drove Estes to make these motors, and then
Estes opted to offer the C5-3 later.
> The first run of Centuri 13mm engines were much more like AVI motors
> (2.25", funny colors, green and/or blue, don't ask me, I'm allegedly
> color-blind) than Estes. These were discontinued about when AVI imploded,
> and miraculously, the new ones were the little stubby Estes motors, and the
> Centuri B motors had been discontinued (since you couldn't get enough BP in
> the 1.75" case to make a decent B).
Yes, this agrees completely with what I've gathered. Not sure if the early
Centuri 13mm motors were made by AVI, or if it was just a coincidence that
Centuri migrated to Estes for these about the same time as AVI went OOB.
> I'm sure Mr. Kaplow could take a night
> off from his ACLU meetings to compare AVI and Centuri "first run" motors for
> comparison ;-).
LOL. I don't always agree with Bob, but he makes me think, and I like that.
Christopher Deem
--
Christopher Brian Deem NAR 12308 TRA 2256 Level II
"Jim Z in VT" <jimz...@adelphia.NoThanks.net> wrote in message
news:VzYZ7.2804$gO5.1...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
Fred Shecter
length. Only the AVI motors were made by AVI. The Centuri motor lengths
became 1.75" and the B went away when motor production moved to Penrose.
Bob, correct me if I'm wrong.
And the new nozzle clay DOES NOT look like the graphite/clay mix that
Centuri used when they had lots of scrap graphite dust from composite
Enerjet motor production (machined nozzles and delay housings).
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
"Sams Family" <sam...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:3C3921C9...@flash.net...
buf...@thisaddress.com
stage had to be designed longer than the D12-0, so they just extended
the tube and coupled it. Only Pass Port staging problem I've had is
from the later Estes Engines. If you remember, the original reason
for Upper Stage Engines, was not so much delay (that was important!),
but the Nozzles were made different to allow a slight advantage in the
"hot particles" in reaching the BP. Checking my later motors, I don't
find any difference in diameter or form. I would agree Estes was
building them but to Centuri specs, which was different. I have an
A4-4M, Lot No 286 X11 73, it has a distinct carbon looking nozzle, all
of my Estes engines from that period, all the way up, are just white
clay.
Oh Well, the good old days.
Paul
Doug Sams
>
<snip>
> Also, ISTR that there was a B14-3 that only Centuri carried.
I was able to look it up today.
'Twasn't a B14-3. It was a B8-3. Centuri offered it only in 1981. Estes never
offered it at all.
Doug
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Doug Sams
> The Centuri and AVI motors had a slightly different diameter and a different
> length. Only the AVI motors were made by AVI. The Centuri motor lengths
> became 1.75" and the B went away when motor production moved to Penrose.
>
FWIW,
To supplement what Fred gave us, here's what I put together from ninginger:
CMR/MPC Minijets: 57x13mm (2.25"x0.5")
AVI Minijets: 57x13mm (2.25"x0.5") (These appear to be the same exact
motors as above.)
Centuri Mini-Motors: 63x13mm (2.5"x0.5")
Estes T motors: 45x13mm (1.75"x0.5")
The Centuri length was calculated using the photo at:
http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/nostalgia/73cen00c.html
Question: Were the AVI motors the same motors as MPC's, or did they just use
the same exact designations?
Doug
I saw a whole box of B3 motors the other day. One of these days, I'll get the
owner inebriated and see if he'll sell them :)
Hilty Information Systems
<doug_m...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Fred Shecter wrote:
>
>> The Centuri and AVI motors had a slightly different diameter and a different
>> length. Only the AVI motors were made by AVI. The Centuri motor lengths
>> became 1.75" and the B went away when motor production moved to Penrose.
>>
>
>FWIW,
>
>To supplement what Fred gave us, here's what I put together from ninginger:
LOL.. ninginger? As in "ninginger Rogers"?
BWAHAHAHA...
Oh, sorry..
<g>
tah
Tod A. Hilty NAR #72099
Hilty Information Systems
- replace ihrUnterhose with adelphia for reply
--
Member MTMA, NAR Section #606
Mantua Township Missile Agency
http://web.raex.com/~markndeb/rockets/mtma/
"I'm going to put the wheels of the bus back on... just in case"
- BlankReg, Max Headroom: 20 Minutes Into the Future
"I speak for myself _and_ my corporation! Deal with it!"
- blankreg
Stefan E. Jones
> Question: Were the AVI motors the same motors as MPC's, or did they just use
> the same exact designations?
They were almost certainly the same motors. AVI inherited MPC's stock
and equipment. They continued making motors until, um, 1978 or so, I'd
guess.
> >
> Fred Shecter wrote:
>
> > The Centuri and AVI motors had a slightly different diameter and a different
> > length. Only the AVI motors were made by AVI. The Centuri motor lengths
> > became 1.75" and the B went away when motor production moved to Penrose.
> >
>
> FWIW,
>
> To supplement what Fred gave us, here's what I put together from ninginger:
>
> CMR/MPC Minijets: 57x13mm (2.25"x0.5")
> AVI Minijets: 57x13mm (2.25"x0.5") (These appear to be the same exact
> motors as above.)
> Centuri Mini-Motors: 63x13mm (2.5"x0.5")
> Estes T motors: 45x13mm (1.75"x0.5")
>
> The Centuri length was calculated using the photo at:
> http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/nostalgia/73cen00c.html
>
> Doug
Doug Sams
> > ninginger:
>
> LOL.. ninginger? As in "ninginger Rogers"?
>
> BWAHAHAHA...
Yes, and Freded Astaire.
You'd think I was typing with nine fingers...in reality, it's ten thumbs. My
piano teacher recognized this early on. I never learned to play worth a crap,
but she'd send me home with mounds of music theory homework. I can transpose
anything now.
FWIW, even though I know we live - here and now - in the good ol' days, threads
like this leave me longing for all the rocketry I missed out on pre-BAR.
Doug
Fred Shecter
German Quest motors are was thin and the USA Quest motors were way fat. (Not
Wo Fat....)
Centuri mini-motors fit in the BT-5. MPC/AVI minis were fat and if bulging
badly could tear the tube open.
MPC and AVI were the same motors.
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
Doug Sams <doug_m...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40069d019ced9b3eba0...@mygate.mailgate.org...
Hilty Information Systems
<doug_m...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Tod razzed me thusly:
>
>> > ninginger:
>>
>> LOL.. ninginger? As in "ninginger Rogers"?
>>
>> BWAHAHAHA...
>
>Yes, and Freded Astaire.
>
>You'd think I was typing with nine fingers...in reality, it's ten thumbs.
hehe... just figger'd I'd yank your chain a little... My spelling is
usually pretty decent but, if you really want to nail me, my grammar
is my "soft underbelly". Sometimes I re-read what I've posted (after
hitting send, of course), and laugh my butt off at my atrocious use of
the language in written form..
<bg>
>My
>piano teacher recognized this early on. I never learned to play worth a crap,
>but she'd send me home with mounds of music theory homework. I can transpose
>anything now.
I can play low brass, and have been playing guitar since I was 11.
Piano, for some unknown reason, never clicked with me. My 9yo son has
been taking lessons now for three years, and the kid is downright
scary. He'll just sit right down at a keyboard, and rip off a ragtime
tune he's been playing like it was nothing. So far, the rest of the
Hilty spawn (with the exception of the pseudo-trombone playing 11yo)
is essentially musically illiterate..
<g>
>FWIW, even though I know we live - here and now - in the good ol' days, threads
>like this leave me longing for all the rocketry I missed out on pre-BAR.
Oh yeah!
Tod "Can't wait to try a C11 in my Burnt Brick II!" Hilty
Christopher Deem
can work out a deal.
--
Christopher Brian Deem NAR 12308 TRA 2256 Level II
"Doug Sams" <doug_m...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40069d019ced9b3eba0...@mygate.mailgate.org...
Sams Family
Christopher Deem wrote:
>
> Hey Doug, I've got a bunch of AVI mini-jets, including B3s. <vbg> Maybe we
> can work out a deal.
Yeah? Well, I got a bottle of Maker's Mark. How 'bout we sip a little bourbon
and fire up a couple of stogies to discuss 'em? <bseg>
Bob Kaplow
> Fred Shecter wrote:
>
>> The Centuri and AVI motors had a slightly different diameter and a different
>> length. Only the AVI motors were made by AVI. The Centuri motor lengths
>> became 1.75" and the B went away when motor production moved to Penrose.
>>
>
> FWIW,
>
> To supplement what Fred gave us, here's what I put together from ninginger:
>
> CMR/MPC Minijets: 57x13mm (2.25"x0.5")
> AVI Minijets: 57x13mm (2.25"x0.5") (These appear to be the same exact
> motors as above.)
> Centuri Mini-Motors: 63x13mm (2.5"x0.5")
I thought the Centuri minis were longer thanthe MPC, but hadn't had the
chance to check my collection.
> Estes T motors: 45x13mm (1.75"x0.5")
>
> The Centuri length was calculated using the photo at:
> http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/nostalgia/73cen00c.html
>
> Question: Were the AVI motors the same motors as MPC's, or did they just use
> the same exact designations?
Yup. The company originally started out as MRI, run by Myron (Myke)
Bergenski (sp?). He had a deal with MPC, the model company, back when they
owned Lionel etc, and were in turn owned by General Mills. That put the MPC
name on the product and got it out inthe hobby store before Estes. The Mini
motors came out shortly after the standard stuff hit the stores, along with
half a dozen kits designed by G Harry himself. Eventually MPC backed out,
leaving Myke with warehouses full of goods and no money. He sold it off for
years under the AVI name before vanishing with money that people paid for
stuff they never got.
Bob Kaplow
> Doug Sams wrote:
>> Question: Were the AVI motors the same motors as MPC's, or did they just use
>> the same exact designations?
>
> They were almost certainly the same motors. AVI inherited MPC's stock
> and equipment. They continued making motors until, um, 1978 or so, I'd
> guess.
Somewhere along the line, I took a trip up to Mineral Point WI, and got a
full tour of AVI, including idle motor machines, a DG Nova computer to run
them, and warehouse after warehouse of MPC leftovers.
Tim
Who made/makes the MRC motors. A few years ago they had two versions,
one in a three pack, the other in a two pack.
I had a few three pack motors. They had a dark grey nozzle and yellow
smoke. I have no idea what the two pack version was like.
Tim
Quilly Mammoth
<3C3A5A0C...@bellsouth.net>, Tim spake thusly:
That's it! Many moons ago there was a thread about coloured smoke. I _knew_
there was one that was _not_ grey or black.
Now, was there one that had red?
Quilly Mammoth
Christopher Deem
--
Christopher Brian Deem NAR 12308 TRA 2256 Level II
"Sams Family" <sam...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:3C3A67E5...@flash.net...
Katsuhiko Seki
notice anything out of the ordinary... they are probably the same
sachsen motors that quest uses.
i've gone and yanked out some of my centuri b4-m's and found them to be
13x64mm, and the different delays came in a different colored motor
casing.
the mpc and avi b3-m's were identical, cept the ink used on the
printing... the mpc's used red and blue ink, while avi used only black
ink.
actually, estes did have a b8 motor... it was released back in the late
60's early 70's, as i've got one pack in them old blue rolled craft tube
that estes used to pack their motors in. oddly, it was made similar to
that of the "s" series motors, in that the motor was a 13mm motor glued
inside of a 18mm outer casing... this might of originally been a failed
attempt by estes to put out a 13x70 mini-b motor, or might of been an
earlier motor making method using a 13mm motor making machine... don't
know.
k.seki
nar 28614
Sams Family
Katsuhiko Seki wrote:
>
> i've gone and yanked out some of my centuri b4-m's and found them to be
> 13x64mm, and the different delays came in a different colored motor
> casing.
Good info. Thx.
> the mpc and avi b3-m's were identical, cept the ink used on the
> printing... the mpc's used red and blue ink, while avi used only black
> ink.
> actually, estes did have a b8 motor... it was released back in the late
> 60's early 70's, as i've got one pack in them old blue rolled craft tube
> that estes used to pack their motors in.
Agreed. Estes had B8's, but only Centuri had the B8-3. Production dates I saw
were toward late 70's/early eighties.
> oddly, it was made similar to
> that of the "s" series motors, in that the motor was a 13mm motor glued
> inside of a 18mm outer casing... this might of originally been a failed
> attempt by estes to put out a 13x70 mini-b motor, or might of been an
> earlier motor making method using a 13mm motor making machine... don't
> know.
Can you post some pics? I'd really like to see this.
> k.seki
> nar 28614
Fred Shecter
orange/white smoke that is WAY dense. Still not much help if you have white
clouds, but amazing if you have blue skies.
Estes seems to have increased their smoke this year as well. Try a few dozen
E9 motors and tell us what you think.
;-)
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
Tim <tb...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3C3A5A0C...@bellsouth.net...
Fred Shecter
glued inside another. Rather, the casing itself was insanely thick and
therefore the largest motor was a B since the inside diameter was so small
you could not get a C worth of propellant inside.
Also that 8 was an english unit motor. I think it was a ".8" as in "8 tenths
of a pound of average thrust".
Those thick casings were the A5 and B4 (similar to the english unit B.8)
They later came up with a thinner and stronger casing (more glue/tighter
wrap) which allowed for a larger inside diameter and then we got the A8, B6
and C6 motors. The older casings were so heavy that they offered the 1/4A,
1/2A and A in a "shorty" version which had 1 inch cut off.
The B8 that everyone else has been talking about is the C5 motor with only
half the propellant. It was produced by Centuri and Estes in various delays.
Centuri had a -3 and a -5 but Estes only sold the -5. I'm too lazy to look
up the exact years and if a booster existed. I could always go to Earles and
see what they're still selling... ;-)
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
Katsuhiko Seki <ks...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:18902-3C3...@storefull-176.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Doug Sams
> Those Estes B8 motors are the old original motor casings that were not one
> glued inside another. Rather, the casing itself was insanely thick and
> therefore the largest motor was a B since the inside diameter was so small
> you could not get a C worth of propellant inside.
>
> Also that 8 was an english unit motor. I think it was a ".8" as in "8 tenths
> of a pound of average thrust".
I wondered if maybe Katsuhiko was thinking B.8 .
<snip>
> The B8 that everyone else has been talking about is the C5 motor with only
> half the propellant. It was produced by Centuri and Estes in various delays.
> Centuri had a -3 and a -5 but Estes only sold the -5. I'm too lazy to look
> up the exact years and if a booster existed. I could always go to Earles and
> see what they're still selling... ;-)
>
Here's what I have:
B8-0 E:80-81 C:81
B8-3 C:81
B8-5 E:80-96 C:81-83
B8-7 E:80-81 C:81
(No Estes data for 97-98. No Centuri data for 84.)
Doug
The Rocket Scientist
Put down that pickle!
Bob Kaplow
> Yup. The company originally started out as MRI, run by Myron (Myke)
> Bergenski (sp?). He had a deal with MPC, the model company, back when they
> owned Lionel etc, and were in turn owned by General Mills. That put the MPC
> name on the product and got it out inthe hobby store before Estes. The Mini
> motors came out shortly after the standard stuff hit the stores, along with
> half a dozen kits designed by G Harry himself. Eventually MPC backed out,
> leaving Myke with warehouses full of goods and no money. He sold it off for
> years under the AVI name before vanishing with money that people paid for
> stuff they never got.
In reviewing this post, I realized that I've been to the house of at least 4
model rocket manufacturers; at least two of which have been to my house as
well: Vern, Myke, Gary, and Doug. I can't recall if Doug dropped by Chez
Kaplow after NARAM-33.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Ctrl-Alt-Del"
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://www.pleimling.org/le/MayJun00.pdf
NIRA: http://www.nira.chicago.il.us NAR: http://www.nar.org
Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one
who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it
but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are
inevitably ruined. -- Patrick Henry, speech of June 5 1788
Bob Kaplow
They were made by the same German factory that now makes the Quest motors.
Katsuhiko Seki
motors... how they printed the info on the motors were a bit goofy back
then, as it was printed as B:8:0... my A.5-4S was even goofier, as it
was printed as A.54=S... oh well...
k.seki
nar 28614
Doug Sams
> [Myke] sold [the MPC inventory] off for years under the AVI name
Not sure if this can be readily answered, but...once Myke disappeared, how did
the motor machines get from AVI to FSI?
Doug
Stefan E. Jones
>
> Bob Kaplow wrote:
> > [Myke] sold [the MPC inventory] off for years under the AVI name
> > before vanishing with money that people paid for stuff they never got.
>
> Not sure if this can be readily answered, but...once Myke disappeared, how did
> the motor machines get from AVI to FSI?
Hey, maybe Bergenski, all ill-shaven and spooky-looking, showed up at
FSI's Mule's Canker* Nike site one rainy night and offered to sell the
Reeses the MPC motor machine, which he had strapped to the top of his
AMC Gremlin.
"And, and, yeah, I got fifty cubic yards of shock cord mounts, yeah,
urrr-AHHH-Ha-hah f'NOING!, sell 'em to you cheap, huh?"
Stefan
* Raytown MO was FSI's mailing address. The actual plant was miles and
miles south, way in the boonies. I visited the place in '90, on the way
back from LDRS.
Jerry Irvine
<ste...@NOSPAMio.com> wrote:
> AMC Gremlin.
At least two other rocketb geeks had Gremlins including the late Mike Smalley.
Jerry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01ro...@gte.net>
Bring common sense back to rocketry administration.
Fred Shecter
Where's Bob Sanford.....
-Fred "over to you Bob Kaplow" Shecter NAR 20117
Doug Sams <doug_m...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:78128cd5d92d3ac4be4...@mygate.mailgate.org...
> Bob Kaplow wrote:
> > [Myke] sold [the MPC inventory] off for years under the AVI name
> > before vanishing with money that people paid for stuff they never got.
>
> Not sure if this can be readily answered, but...once Myke disappeared, how
did
> the motor machines get from AVI to FSI?
>
> Doug
Fred Shecter
rocket fame) from NY to MO/KS.
It was like "Vacation"
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
Jerry Irvine <01ro...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:01rocket-080...@1cust31.tnt1.rancho-cucamonga.ca.da.uu.net...
Tim
Fred Shecter wrote:
> Estes seems to have increased their smoke this year as well. Try a few dozen
> E9 motors and tell us what you think.
>
> ;-)
I plan to. I haven't been active in model rocketry or HPR in the last
three or four years, except once each spring when I do a show for the
local elementry school. The introduction of the E9's have got me
dreaming up ideas for E powered rockets, and pulling out several unbuilt
kits to start (or finish in some cases).
It's funny that I've flown 12ft. rockets with M's, yet it takes modrocs
to get me interested again.
Tim
Tim
Bob Kaplow wrote:
>
> In article <3C3A5A0C...@bellsouth.net>, Tim <tb...@bellsouth.net> writes:
> > Who made/makes the MRC motors. A few years ago they had two versions,
> > one in a three pack, the other in a two pack.
> >
> > I had a few three pack motors. They had a dark grey nozzle and yellow
> > smoke. I have no idea what the two pack version was like.
>
> They were made by the same German factory that now makes the Quest motors.
That would explain the slick dark grey nozzles. The motors I bought were
B6-4's I believe. Like Fred mentioned, the smoke was very thick. The
casing had a visably smaller diameter from the end of the propellant and
ejection material to the upper end. It reminded me of shrinkwrap over
wire. <g> I never saw an Estes motor that had that.
IIRC, the two pack MRC motors were called "Tracker II". Were they also
German?
Tim
Tim
> The B8 that everyone else has been talking about is the C5 motor with only
> half the propellant. It was produced by Centuri and Estes in various delays.
> Centuri had a -3 and a -5 but Estes only sold the -5. I'm too lazy to look
> up the exact years and if a booster existed. I could always go to Earles and
> see what they're still selling... ;-)
Didn't Estes market the latter B8-x motors as a replacment to the B14
that had been discontinued a few years before?
Tim
Sams Family
Tim wrote:
> Didn't Estes market the latter B8-x motors as a replacment to
> the B14 that had been discontinued a few years before?
That's my take. The high-thrust, fast burn B-motor (ie, Type II) lineage appears
to be as follows:
B16 -> B3 -> B14 -> B8
The B16 and B3 were English units while the B14 and B8 are metric.
According the catalogs at ninFinger, the B14's last year was 1979. The B8 came
on in 1980.
ISTR that Bob Kaplow mentioned that the B16 was only called that because they
couldn't get an accurate reading on the test stand. The 1962 catalog
substantiates that; it lists the avg thrust as approximate.
Bob Kaplow
> Bob Kaplow wrote:
>> In article <3C3A5A0C...@bellsouth.net>, Tim <tb...@bellsouth.net> writes:
>
> That would explain the slick dark grey nozzles. The motors I bought were
> B6-4's I believe. Like Fred mentioned, the smoke was very thick. The
> casing had a visably smaller diameter from the end of the propellant and
> ejection material to the upper end. It reminded me of shrinkwrap over
> wire. <g> I never saw an Estes motor that had that.
>
> IIRC, the two pack MRC motors were called "Tracker II". Were they also
> German?
The two-packs were exactly the same motors, with an extra glossy paper wrap,
funky nozzle plug, and novel "two for the price of three" packaging.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Ctrl-Alt-Del"
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://www.pleimling.org/le/MayJun00.pdf
NIRA: http://www.nira.chicago.il.us NAR: http://www.nar.org
We must have faith in our democratic system and our Constitution,
and in our ability to protect at the same time both the freedom and
the security of all Americans.
26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy
Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/
Tom Ha
Rabbit!
Tom Ha