Mystery 2-10-0?
Roger Keim
Thank you for informing me that the Bachman 2-10-0 is not yet
released.
Could swear I've seen a non-brass 2-10-0 listed in ads the last
2-3 years. Did any other manufacturer bring one out during that time.
Roger Keim
Marada C. Shradrakaii
>2-3 years. Did any other manufacturer bring one out during that time.
All I know is that Bowser has had a PRR I1 for *decades*. It's not brass. Was
that it?
BTW, anyone know the prototype of the Bachmann?
--
Marada Coeurfuege Shra'drakaii
"What do you mean 'I'm doing 92.39 to 1 with a 5-foot gauge' is not a valid
excuse for undersized models?"
Fritz Milhaupt
>
> > Could swear I've seen a non-brass 2-10-0 listed in ads the last
> >2-3 years. Did any other manufacturer bring one out during that time.
>
> All I know is that Bowser has had a PRR I1 for *decades*. It's not brass. Was
> that it?
>
> BTW, anyone know the prototype of the Bachmann?
It's the "Russian" Decapod, used by the Frisco, the Gainesville
Midland, the Erie, and I think the Reading and Western Maryland.
The originals were built for export to Russia right before the
Revolution in 1917. Once that happened, they were not shipped over, and
instead regauged from the Russian 5-foot gauge to North American
standard gauge and sold to railroads here.
A Frisco Russian (#1630) is preserved and has been operated at the
Illinois Railway Museum.
-fm
Perpetrator of the Haggis Decal Project, at:
http://www.rust.net/~milhaupt/haggiscar
The e-mail addresses in this message bounce to frustrate harvestbots.
See my web sites for my actual e-mail address.
trainnut
unlike the Frisco dec.
--
Model Railroading is Fun
Have Fun Today!
8>)
Jon Miller
got them from the Orient (KCM&O). There were 3 and they were scrapped '30
and '34. There is some question as to the Santa Fe even operating them.
Christian
> Could swear I've seen a non-brass 2-10-0 listed in ads the last
> 2-3 years. Did any other manufacturer bring one out during that time.
Probably Botchmann ads.
Was going to be available a year ago.
CTucker
NY
demetre_argiro
>> Could swear I've seen a non-brass 2-10-0 listed in ads the last
>>2-3 years. Did any other manufacturer bring one out during that time.
>
>All I know is that Bowser has had a PRR I1 for *decades*. It's not brass. Was
>that it?
>
>BTW, anyone know the prototype of the Bachmann?
The Bachman model is the Russian decapod, used by the Erie, the Frisco, the
Gainesville Midland, Gulf Mobile & Northern (later GM&O) the Kansas City, Mexico &
Orient (later Santa-Fe) Reading and Western Maryland. I don't know which road will be
best represented, but as a "foaming" GM&O fan and modeler I am certain to have
several, whatever their actual prototypes may be.
Fritz Milhaupt indicated that "A Frisco Russian (#1630) is preserved and has been
operated at the Illinois Railway Museum." In addition to that, all three of the
Gainesville Midland's locos have been "preserved" (that is, if "not-scrapped" can be
used to mean preserved). One is in Gainesville, another in Winder (Wine - der) and
the third in Jefferson, all in Georgia. All three cities were on-line for the GM.
Russian decapods were built for export to Czar Nicholas' Government before the
October, 1917 Revolution. The U.S. Government then decreed that the Commies could not
have them and so refused to let any of the builders ship them to Lenin's Government.
All of them were regauged from the Russian 60" gauge to North American 56½" gauge and
sold to the railroads listed above. As nearly as I can tell from reading as well as
first hand observation, the re-gauging was accomplished by re-fitting the locos with
extra-wide tyres which set the flanges back an extra 1-3/4" on each side. The Gulf,
Mobile & Ohio's engines had tyres that hung out over the edge of the rail and were
absolutely forbidden to negotiate self guarding frogs. GM&O's locos were among the
first steamers scrapped following WWII. The Gainesville Midland's trio were among the
longest lived steam locos in The United States used in regular daily service by a
common carrier.
--
Demetre [argi...@mindspring.com] Argiro
Charles F Seyferlich
The only non brass US prototype HO 2-10-0 model I can think of is the
Bowser/Penn Line PRR 2-10-0. This has been available for years.
European prototype 2-10-0's are made by Roco, Marklin etc and are widely
available. Hornby or Tri-ang made (make?) a British prototype 2-10-0.
Trix (I think) made a Quasi PRR 2-10-0 in N. Looked maybe like a K4
boiler/cab assy on a European 2-10-0 chassis.
ATAE Cain
numbered 8000-8019 and 8025-8034. I do not know when they were retired.
I also do not know if the Bachman comes anywhere close to the Southern
prototype as I have not seen it.
Allen
Marada C. Shradrakaii
>Midland, the Erie, and I think the Reading and Western Maryland.
Thanks. I thought that was likely-- it seemed as close to a 'standard' Decapod
as there was.
Would be interesting to see one with the wheels pulled 3.5 scale inches out,
and lettered in a 'might have been' manner.
Trainman
<Demetre Argiro> wrote in message
news:3b533d5c...@news.mindspring.com...
> On 16 Jul 2001 08:43:36 GMT, fould...@aol.com.terra (Marada C.
Shradrakaii) wrote:
>
> >> Could swear I've seen a non-brass 2-10-0 listed in ads the last
> >>2-3 years. Did any other manufacturer bring one out during that time.
> >
> >All I know is that Bowser has had a PRR I1 for *decades*. It's not
brass. Was
> >that it?
> >
> >BTW, anyone know the prototype of the Bachmann?
>
> The Bachman model is the Russian decapod, used by the Erie, the Frisco,
the
> Gainesville Midland, Gulf Mobile & Northern (later GM&O) the Kansas City,
Mexico &
> Orient (later Santa-Fe) Reading and Western Maryland. I don't know which
road will be
> best represented, but as a "foaming" GM&O fan and modeler I am certain to
have
> several, whatever their actual prototypes may be.
>
> Fritz Milhaupt indicated that "A Frisco Russian (#1630) is preserved and
has been
> operated at the Illinois Railway Museum." In addition to that, all three
of the
I can confirm the fact that the Frisco unit at IRM is indeed operational. I
have ridden behind it, and been in the cab with fire on the grate and boiler
pressure up.
Don
--
don.de...@prodigy.net
http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
moderator: WisMode...@yahoogroups.com
and: MRP...@yahoogroups.com
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/MRPics
Jeff Scarbrough
>>BTW, anyone know the prototype of the Bachmann?
>
>The Bachman model is the Russian decapod, used by the Erie, the Frisco, the
>Gainesville Midland, Gulf Mobile & Northern (later GM&O) the Kansas City, Mexico &
>Orient (later Santa-Fe) Reading and Western Maryland.
Seaboard also -- I think they sold some to the GM? I loaned my Prince
book to a friend...
> I don't know which road will be
>best represented, but as a "foaming" GM&O fan and modeler I am certain to have
>several, whatever their actual prototypes may be.
>
>Fritz Milhaupt indicated that "A Frisco Russian (#1630) is preserved and has been
>operated at the Illinois Railway Museum." In addition to that, all three of the
>Gainesville Midland's locos have been "preserved" (that is, if "not-scrapped" can be
>used to mean preserved). One is in Gainesville, another in Winder (Wine - der) and
>the third in Jefferson, all in Georgia. All three cities were on-line for the GM.
But not all three are Russians...actually, four (of the origianl nine:
201-209) ex-GM Decapods are extant: three in Georgia in Duluth
(#203), Winder (#208), Gainesville (#209), and , and one in NC at
Spencer lettered as SAL #544...it was GM #206
http://www.srmduluth.org/photos/203.jpg
http://www.ci.salisbury.nc.us/nctrans/544.htm
http://www.ci.salisbury.nc.us/nctrans/cars/544info.htm
I can't recall for sure, but I think the one in NC is the only Russian
of the group...
According to this guy:
http://douglasvanveelen.home.mindspring.com/gmroster.htm
201, 202, 204, 205, and 206 were Russians.
And Mr. D, upon reflection, will realise that the loco in Jefferson is
#116, a 2-8-0. But he knows that thew memory is the second thing to
go...
Jeff
Jeff "single-handed" Scarbrough Proud Charter Member
Athens, Georgia CEO and Section Gang, Piedmont and Southern Railroad
je...@negia.net http://members.home.net/p-srr/
http://serr.railfan.net http://smrf.railfan.net/SMRF
Eric
Gainesville Midland only has one Russian preserved and it is ex-SAL
#544, #206 while on the GM, at the North Carolina Transportation
Museum in Spencer NC. The other three GM decopods preserved; Winder,
Gainesville, and at the SERM in Duluth; are all Baldwins and not
Russians. The GM engine in Jefferson is a GM 2-8-0, I should know I
saw it last Saturday. Five other Russian survive and they are all
former Frisco engines. The are at St. Louis MO, Belton Mo, Union Il
(IRM), Dallas Tx., and Altus Ok. The only one operable is 1630 in
Union.
Many railroads had Russians including the following:
ACL; SAL; Frisco; Erie; Gainesville Midland; Georgia, Florida, and
Alabama; Georgia Northern; DT&I; Minneapolis, Northfield and SOuthern;
Phili and Reading; Western Maryland; Pittsburg, Shawnut, & Northern;
Eagle Pitcher Mines; MP; GM&O; Atlanta and West Point; NC&StL;
Susquehana; and the ATSF.
I have some pics of the non-Russian GM Decapods and the 2-8-0 in
Jefferson on my web site.
http://e_lauterbach.tripod.com/georgiasteam.htm
Eric
Demetre Argiro wrote in message news:<3b533d5c...@news.mindspring.com>...
RJ
>Gainesville Midland's locos have been "preserved" (that is, if "not-scrapped" can be
>used to mean preserved). One is in Gainesville, another in Winder (Wine - der) and
>the third in Jefferson, all in Georgia. All three cities were on-line for the GM.
The engine in Jefferson is not a decapod. I believe you will find the
3rd Gainesville Midland decapod at the museum in Duluth, GA...
Ron
demetre_argiro
Yes, Thank you all. I was mistaken about the consolidation at Jefferson.
Does anyone know how many-if any- of the locos were shipped before the ban was
imposed?
--
Demetre [argi...@mindspring.com] Argiro
William Pearce
In re the 'Russian' 2-10-0s, these were in two batches, for the First
World War and for the Second. Their Russian class is Cyrillic letter E,
which is Ye in Roman, so we would call them the Ye class. According to
'Russian steam Locomotives' by Fleming and Le Price, 900 were delivered to
Russia up to July 1918, 246 ended up standard gauged and sold to various
U.S. railroads, and the remainder of the original order for 1,300 were
cancelled.
In the Second World War the Soviets again needed many steam locos, so
the old First world War 2-10-0 design was resurrected and 2,120 of these
engines were delivered under Lend-Lease between 1944 and 1947, again
classified as Ye, builders Baldwin and Alco.
Regards,
Bill.
Melbourne,
Australia.
"Charles F Seyferlich" <cfs...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3B535B...@worldnet.att.net...
Phil Bostian
<Demetre Argiro> wrote in message
news:3b533d5c...@news.mindspring.com...
A little bit of additional information here. For the most part, the modern
Gainesville Midland Decapods were all hand me downs from various other
railroads. The last ones ran in 1959, when parent road Seaboard Air Line
took over and dieselized the Gainesville Midland.
There are at least four Gainesville Midland decapods still in existence.
One is in Gainesville at the old company headquarters/depot, another is at
the ex-GM station in Winder as noted above. The locomotive in Jefferson is
not a Decapod; it is a GM consolidation, there is also a GM consolidation in
Freedom Park in Charlotte, NC (this loco arrived in Charlotte at the old
Seaboard Station in 1959 under its own power). The Southeastern Railway
Museum in Duluth, GA has a GM decapod, and the NC Transportation Museum aka
Spencer Shops in Spencer, NC also has one. This particular engine had been
presented to the State of Georgia (according to Prince's book), was number
206, and was totally derelict when it arrived from the museum in Duluth, GA
(where #203 still resides) many years ago. It had practically rusted away
and stayed that way for several years. Now the museum has cosmetically
restored it and renumbered it to its original number on the Seaboard Air
Line #544 (it was previously owned by DT&I, SAL, and MD&S). It now sits in
the Southern Roundhouse at Spencer and serves to illustrate (with pictures)
how a steam locomotive operates. However, it has been pulled out on the
turntable for Rail Days for pictures.
Hope this helps.
Phil
Phil Bostian
"Jeff Scarbrough" <joe....@basement.com> wrote in message
news:3b537d3b.78882922@news...
Jeff, according to Prince, IF I read his notes correctly, only #206 now #544
at Spencer is a Russian. The other three are more modern. #203 which is at
Duluth is a former ATN locomotive, and 208 at Winder and 209 at Gainesville
are both originally SAL.
Phil
Phil Bostian
"ATAE Cain" <atae...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010716172621...@ng-fy1.aol.com...
According again to Richard Prince, GM 202 was ex-SRR 8017. These engines
were assigned to the Southern by the USRA, and I believe stayed on the
roster only a short time. They were considered too slow for the SRR and
were returned to the USRA who promptly distributed them to other railroads
who needed them.
Phil
Jeff Scarbrough
<pbos...@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> I can't recall for sure, but I think the one in NC is the only Russian
>> of the group...
>>
>> According to this guy:
>> http://douglasvanveelen.home.mindspring.com/gmroster.htm
>> 201, 202, 204, 205, and 206 were Russians.
>>
>
>Jeff, according to Prince, IF I read his notes correctly, only #206 now #544
>at Spencer is a Russian. The other three are more modern. #203 which is at
>Duluth is a former ATN locomotive, and 208 at Winder and 209 at Gainesville
>are both originally SAL.
Right you are, Phil. The numbers I gave were the Russians in the
original 9 Decapods. Of those, only #206 survives. *sigh* Better
one than none...