Overland quality control
R. or I. Piscione
I'd like to start by saying that I am not bashing Overland, at least not
outright. I would like to ask everyone who owns some Overland locomotives
to give me an opinion as to the quality of the units. The three that I own
have some serious shortcomings (considering the cost) in the quality. The
paint on my SD70 and SD90 units is quite sloppy in places, the actual
assembly is also sloppy (various grilles and things mis-aligned) and these
two units will not run together because of differences in the motor speeds.
They're also brand new.
The third unit is a three-part turbine, which ran extremely poorly when I
first obtained it. It also needed repairs. I'm willing to let some of this
go because I was not the original owner on this one.
The Overland stuff seems to sell quite well but given the bashing that
Athearn has received recently on the quality of the SD70/75, I'm surprised
that nobody has given equal bashing to Overland. The paint quality on my
Athearn SD70s is better than that of the Overland SD70.
So you could say, why do I buy this stuff. Unfortunately, if I want an
SD90, already built (for example), I can either buy the Overland or hire
someone to build up an RPP setup. I'm not much of a painter or detailer so
I'm considering the latter because I may actually end up with a better
quality unit. Let's leave the "it's an investment" argument out of this for
now because it's difficult to prove.
My advice to the other manufacturers out there, for what it's worth, is to
watch the sales of the Overland units. Whatever sells well (SD90s for
example) could be an indication of a need for a plastic model.
Randy
Bob Boudreau
to kitbash an HO scale CP Rail SD40-2F, and had friend borrow an
Overland brass model of this diesel for me to photograph as a
reference. The actual kitbash was done following friend Patrick
Lawson's article on making one in RMC.
In photographing the factory-painted Overland model I was amazed at the
poor paint job on this expensive model. There was black overspray on
several locations over the CP Action Red. The walkways were not
painted back as per the prototype, the grab irons and some of the
handrails were not correctly painted. I should mention I had quite a
few color and black and white enlargements of the prototype on which to
base my comments. I was making the model for CP, who wanted it for a
presentation. I also had a CP painting diagram.
So I wasn't overly impressed with Overland's painting on this model. I
know it would not have scored very high in a NMRA-type judged model
contest due to the sloppy paint job. I'm just glad I didn't shell out
a whole lot of cash to buy it.
Bob Boudreau
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Curt Mc
are each individually built and painted and the pre-1995 "CUSTOM PAINTED
OMI" units (as denoted by the red stickers on the ends of the box) were
often done by different custom painters. I have two OMI UP SD90MACs - a
factory painted #8000 and a factory custom painted "-H" version #8500
and both have no apparent paint flaws. But I have seen some units from
the same run that my #8000 was from that did have overspray and striping
problems. I also have both BN and CSX SD70MACs (from the first runs of
each) that are excellent, but noted poorer quality paint jobs on the
later runs of the BN SD70MACs.
By the way, OMI has never done factory painted CP SD40-2Fs, but they did
do a few "CUSTOM PAINTED OMI" ones in 1989 and 1991 - and all of those
that I have seen DID have the black walkways. If the unit you saw did
not have the red sticker on the end of the box, then that paint job was
not done by an OMI painter. OMI still does some "Custom Painted OMI"
units today (such as my UP #8500) but they are now noted by the term
"Custom Painted" (instead of "Factory Painted") directly below the model
type on the end of box label.
On the OMI custom painted units, OMI has always been at the mercy of
their contract painters some of which have been known to rush jobs, use
wrong colors, or wrong decals. OMI does have some great custom painters
though - including the guy who does the majority of the UP (name
unknown), "JN" who does the majority of the NS jobs, and also "GB". By
the way, have you got a price quote from a professional painter for
doing a brass loco recently? The best ones are currently two to four
times the <$100 that OMI typically adds (to dealer cost) for their
custom paint jobs. And back in the late 1980s and early 1990s when OMI
was doing the "CUSTOM PAINTED OMI" units (with the red stickers) the
dealer cost for the custom painted ones was only about $60 more than the
unpainted. If OMI was charging that, then what were the custom painters
getting on a per unit cost for their work?
For the factory painted items, OMI is somewhat at the mercy of Ajin who
builds AND PAINTS the units. OMI tries to inspect a majority of the
items but some lesser quality ones get by them. On some occasions OMI
has sent back entire production runs to Ajin for repainting. OMI has
also had problems with Ajin on lettering, colors, and printing. In the
past 4 years I have returned at least 10 new OMI units due to Ajin
factory paint defects - they included an ATSF SD75M, an ATSF GP60M, 2
BNSF H1 C44-9Ws, 2 BNSF H2 SD70MACs, 2 C&NW AC4400s, a Conrail SD80MAC,
and a CSX C60AC. But many never notice the problems! When OMI did their
first run of BNSF SD70MACs in the Heritage 2 scheme (#9838 series) they
did 114 units in the production run. When I received mine I immediately
sent it back due to (1) incorrectly spaced stripes, (2) wrong colored
numbers - green instead of correct black, and (3) wrong colored nose top
(black instead of correct green). According to OMI, I was the ONLY
person to notice it...
OMI does make many excellent models, but, as with all manufacturers,
some "bad apples" are out there... The key is in examining the unit.
If you like it, buy it. If it has a problem, leave it for somebody with
lower standards...
- Curt Mc
PS. Most of the bashing on the Athearn SD70s has been due to assembly
problems (especially the %^@#! ditch lights) - not the paint and
lettering jobs... that's Kato's problem ;^)
PS #2 - Kato is doing SD90MACs in HO and N next year...
R. or I. Piscione
assumed that the cost of the unit was a reflection on the quality, which is
not correct. What I will do from now on is a thorough inspection, as you
recommended.
Randy
p.s. When I spoke to Kato a few months ago, they had no intention of doing
an HO version of the SD90. They did admit to doing an N version.
"Curt Mc" <bcmc...@erolsNOSPAMM.com> wrote in message
news:39C2BDEA...@erolsNOSPAMM.com...
Curt Mc
The Kato SD80/90MAC in both N and HO is now on the Kato web page at:
http://www.katousa.com/html/poster1.htm
They announced it at the NMRA convention in August.
- Curt Mc
Curt Mc
> Curt, you are correct. My problem is buying without knowing any better. I
> assumed that the cost of the unit was a reflection on the quality, which is
> not correct.
Actually with brass the cost is more a reflection of how few were
made...
Buy an Athearn and you get 1 of 5,000 made...
Buy an Atlas or P2K and you get 1 of 2,000-3,000 made...
Buy a Kato and you get one of 1,000-1,500 made
Buy an Overland and you get 1 of the very few made (usually <200. Most
recent OMI production runs have been <100 with many being <40 and some
as few as 15...)
- Curt Mc
C.L.Zeni
Ba dump bump!
> PS #2 - Kato is doing SD90MACs in HO and N next year...
I view this with a mix of anticipation and dread...
--
Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com
http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html
http://www.trainweb.org/zeniphotos/zenihome.html
I hear Ginko Biloba's good for memory, but
I can't remember to take the pills.
Sean S.
>> first run of BNSF SD70MACs in the Heritage 2 scheme (#9838 series) they
>> did 114 units in the production run. When I received mine I immediately
>> sent it back due to (1) incorrectly spaced stripes, (2) wrong colored
>> numbers - green instead of correct black, and (3) wrong colored nose top
>> (black instead of correct green). According to OMI, I was the ONLY
>> person to notice it...
Curt,
Are you sure about the color of the numbers? In any of the pictures of
SD70MAC's in H2 that I can find, the numbers appear to be the same green color
as the body and handrails...
Goldwasser
some point or sooner! I have been collecting "O" brass since 1986 and half
of what I purchased had parts that needed to be resoldered even before
painting. So much so I had to buy a Hotip soldering unit to make the
repairs. I don't want to discourage anyone from buying brass ($$$) but
expect problems and plan accordingly.
Dennis
Goldw...@MSN.COM
Curt Mc
Check out the photo of BNSF H2 SD70MAC #8888 on the BNSF Photo Archive
at:
HTTP://ARCHIVE.TRAINPIX.COM/BNSF/EMDORIG/SD70MAC/8888.HTM
In the photo (a great roster shot) it is quite evident to me that:
1) the nose top is green (sandcoat paint)
2) the borders of the yellow stripes and yellow letters are black (note
color difference between top stripe border line and green colored top)
3) the front "BNSF" is black (matches stripes border), and
4) the numbers are black (way darker than the green)
I also have confirmation from a BNSF engineer that the numbers are in
black on the H2 painted units and have inspected BNSF H2 C44-9W numbers
myself at a distance of about 2 inches (cleaned them off and found them
to be black decals)...
- Curt Mc
PS. The greenish tones of Fuji film could affect black in photos. With
all the orange and yellow in the BNSF H2 scheme, Kodachrome would be
best...
Curt Mc
>
> Sean,
>
> Check out the photo of BNSF H2 SD70MAC #8888 on the BNSF Photo Archive
> at:
> HTTP://ARCHIVE.TRAINPIX.COM/BNSF/EMDORIG/SD70MAC/8888.HTM
and also see:
HTTP://ARCHIVE.TRAINPIX.COM/BNSF/EMDORIG/SD70MAC/9839.HTM
which was from the first H2 SD70MACs delivered
Sean S.
>1) the nose top is green (sandcoat paint)
>2) the borders of the yellow stripes and yellow letters are black (note
>color difference between top stripe border line and green colored top)
>3) the front "BNSF" is black (matches stripes border), and
>4) the numbers are black (w
Curt, thanks for the pics, they do show the color variations much clearer than
the other photos I found online...
Fred Dabney
not
> outright. I would like to ask everyone who owns some Overland
locomotives
> to give me an opinion as to the quality of the units. The three that
I own
> have some serious shortcomings (considering the cost) in the quality.
The
> paint on my SD70 and SD90 units is quite sloppy in places, the actual
> assembly is also sloppy (various grilles and things mis-aligned) and
these
> two units will not run together because of differences in the motor
speeds.
> They're also brand new.
Your observations are very close to mine, but keep in mind that
the intended customer is not the same as one who will put the
money and effort into fixing up an Athearn or other plastic
model.
I don't really claim to know what the current market is now,
but there was a time when a brass cow flop was considered far
more valuable than a really first rate, accurate and good running
plastic model- "plastic" itself was a pejorative term even before
you considered the actual model.
Kato, Stewart, Atlas, P2k and recent Athearn has altered a lot
of the old perceptions I grew up with, of course. But I don't
know how good a predictor of market success an Overland model
would be for a plastic kit for the same product.
To some extent, brass collectors have changed as well. Years
ago a few importers had brass engines with chemically blackened
frames and other running gear parts so the buyer wouldn't have
to take the whole chassis apart to paint them. But there were
tales of furious customers who'd take them apart to sandblast
the blackening off- they wanted BRASS, damnit! And I can well
remember the horrified looks on visitors to our club layout when
the discovered half my engines were brass, painted, detailed
and weathered. "You actually /PAINT/ your brass? Won't that
ruin the resale value?" When I'd tell them I bought my models
for me, and I bought them to run, and if they weren't right I
tried to fix them so they were I got responses as if I'd told
them I had some loathsome disease. I got the same response
when they'd see my built, painted, weathered and modified
Ambroid "1 in 5000" kits.
Now it's hard to find unpainted brass. A pity since I can
almost always do a better paint job, at least if I want to
take the time, do the research and locate decent decals.
Fred D.
Fred Dabney
> >> first run of BNSF SD70MACs in the Heritage 2 scheme (#9838 series)
they
> >> did 114 units in the production run. When I received mine I
immediately
> >> sent it back due to (1) incorrectly spaced stripes, (2) wrong
colored
> >> numbers - green instead of correct black, and (3) wrong colored
nose top
> >> (black instead of correct green). According to OMI, I was the ONLY
> >> person to notice it...
>
>
> Are you sure about the color of the numbers? In any of the pictures
of
> SD70MAC's in H2 that I can find, the numbers appear to be the same
green color
> as the body and handrails...
Awhile back, OMI did one of the big GE units in ATSF red/silver.
It had EMD lettering, and it was the rear cover, full color ad
in at least one of the major mags.
Mr Marsh, I understand was not pleased when he was advised of
this...
Fred D.