Newbie needs advice on painting plastic structures
Glen Oberhauser
I'm working on my first model railroad and things are going great. I'm fully
aware that the first layout is a practice layout. Thus, I'm trying to do a
bit of everything. I've used flextrack. I have nice mountains made of molded
plaster over styrofoam. I have water, and so on.
I have a few plastic kits that I've been putting off assembling because
painting has me worried. I haven't painted a model kit since I was about
fourteen and I doubt those came out very well. I want things to look nice,
but again this is my first layout.
Here's the gist...
Can you get a good result using brushes on plastic? I've never airbrushed. I
can probably budget the $250 or so to get the brush and compressor, but
should I? I suppose I really need to spend more than that on things like
safety equipment.
I'd really like to hear opinions of people that can remember being a
beginning modeler. Did you start with brushes? Do you wish you had gone
right to the airbrush?
Thanks,
Glen
Fred Block
> Can you get a good result using brushes on plastic? I've never airbrushed.
I
> can probably budget the $250 or so to get the brush and compressor, but
> should I? I suppose I really need to spend more than that on things like
> safety equipment.
I too can budget for an airbrush/compressor combo - but - if this is
recommended to Glen...please elaborate on the difference (ups and downs) of
the different types of airbrushes please. There's double-action, internal
and external mix, etc.
Thanks - Fred
Bill
Can you get a good result using brushes on plastic?
Yes. Use good brushes and acrylic paints (PollyS, Modelflex, etc.). If
you use solvent paints (Testor's Model Master, Floquil, etc.), the
plastic will craze or melt unless you brush or spray a barrier first.
You might consider using spray paint in cans (Testor's Model Master,
Floquil, etc.).
Also, look into Delta Ceramcoat (an acrylic paint) at the craft store or
craft dept. It's inexpensive and there's a wide range of colors, but you
might want to thin this before painting the structures...it might hide
the details if it's applied too thick.
You could try the inside walls for practice first. You'll want to paint
the inside walls anyway so that when you put lighting in the structures,
the light won't show through the wall.
Bill
Bill's Railroad Empire
N Scale Model Railroad:
http://www.billsrailroad.net
Brief History of N Scale:
http://www.billsrailroad.net/history/n-scale
Resources: Links to over 250 helpful sites:
http://www.billsrailroad.net/bills-favorite-links
Bookstore: http://www.billsrailroad.net/bookstore.html
Carolyn Marenger
plastic for my layout structures is awesome. She's repainted all the
pieces in the models, giving them more realistic base colours. She has
also weathered them. For the detail work, she used micro-brushes picked up
at a locel hobby shop. For the rest she used her regular paint brushes.
Good painting can be done by brush. I have no idea how easy or hard it
would be to do the same via airbrushing.
Hope that helps, Carolyn
On Tuesday 13 August 2002 02:57 pm, Glen Oberhauser scribed the following
message:
--
Carolyn Marenger, Co-Director
Society for the Betterment of the Marenger Family
Linux Registered User #276640
R. or I. Piscione
can of grey primer from Canadian Tire for an industrial building and it
looks great. For another, I wanted it to look weathered so I brush painted,
using a fairly old, rough brush. For yet another, I stippled thick flat
latex ceiling paint on to the walls and then used a thin wash of something
dirty looking, and rubbed some of the dirty stuff off. It ended up looking
like an old, paster building, which was what I had hoped for.
My philosophy is that these are buildings, they're supposed to be out in the
wind and the rain and the sun and (at least up here in Canada) the snow and
salt and such. They may start off nicely painted, but they don't stay that
way for long.
Randy
"Glen Oberhauser" <gl...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:qEc69.12683$Zl2.2528@sccrnsc02...
Trainman
For structures I still use a brush, just like I did 45 years ago.
The difference is the paint. The nicest structure paint I've found is
"Ceramcoat" acrylics from any craft store, home improvement center, and most
Wal-Mart stores.
Don
--
don.de...@prodigy.net
http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
moderator: WisMode...@yahoogroups.com
moderator: MRP...@yahoogroups.com
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/MRPics
Fred Dabney
For a beginner, an external mix, single action is the most
forgiving. Several makers all make them and alone such
brushes can run from less than ten US dollars at Harbor
Freight (not very good but can be used later for things
like Dullcote, etc) to about seventy bucks for a Paasche
in a kit with a few accessories. Model "H" as I recall.
Badger has a similar model and it runs about the
same price.
Compressors can be fairly inexpensive but I suggest
getting a real shop model with a tank and a regulator.
When not splattering paint all over the wall, it can be
used for inflating love dolls and other normal house
hold chores.
Seriously, a "real" compressor is very good for inflating
tires, and I'd have to go out and buy a new one if my
present model quit.
Mine is a Sears, oil-less and direct drive. It's noisy
so if that is a consideration, a diaphragm model
is much quieter but they cost a lot more for the
same function and can't generate the pressure,
don't do well filling things like tires, etc.
Fred D.
Roger T & Heather B.
--
"R. or I. Piscione" <
> My philosophy is that these are buildings, they're supposed to be out in
the
> wind and the rain and the sun and (at least up here in Canada) the snow
and
> salt and such.
Is that really true? Does it really snow in the rest of Canada? Living
here in Victoria, we've heard rumours to that effect. :-)
Cheers
Roger T.
http://www.islandnet.com/~rogertra/
Paul Tackowiak
The next question is 'what scale?'
If it's an undecorated engine or piece of rolling stock then it's unlikely that
you will get a nice finish without an airbrush or can(s) of spray paint. If it's
a structure, you may be able to paint it with just brushes.
The basic point is that to get a thin, even coat of paint you need to spray the
paint on. This is very important if you plan on applying decals.
The scale is important because the best way to preserve the surface detail is to
paint with an airbrush. The smaller the detail, the more citical this is. If you
are working in G scale you could probably use a brush for a great many things.
If you're not sure about buying an airbrush just yet try either cans of spray
paint or even the relatively cheap Testors can of propellant kit. The main thing
is for you to get used to the process of planning and masking the model. Once
you get used to the process you can look into purchasing an airbrush.
On the whole, however, if you're working in HO, you're likely to encounter a
dozen jobs for an airbrush - everything from painting track to weathering
rolling stock to painting backdrops.
Paul T.
Kent Ashton
<roge...@islandnet.com> shared this with the world:
Oh sure.
It snows almost as much here as it rains there.
(constantly from October to May.) ;-)
Kent
--
Kent Ashton | http://members.shaw.ca/kjashton -personal
kjas...@shaw.ca
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada | http://members.shaw.ca/TheRenegades -model rail
Kent Ashton
shared this with the world:
>Howdy,
>
>Can you get a good result using brushes on plastic?
Sure. If you use a brush of above average quality. (no 10 for a buck
brushes)
> I've never airbrushed. I
>can probably budget the $250 or so to get the brush and compressor, but
>should I?
You can spend less to start. Single action, external mix airbrushes
can be fairly inexpensive.
Some guys use a portable air tank to airbrush, if they don't do a lot
of painting. Figure 30-50$ plus free air refills at the gas station.
Also, if budget is a problem, I've seen shop compressors and air
brushes at pawn shops.
>I suppose I really need to spend more than that on things like
>safety equipment.
>
Ventilation is important for many things, airbrushing being one of
them.
>I'd really like to hear opinions of people that can remember being a
>beginning modeler. Did you start with brushes?
I still use brushes for some things. They work pretty well on plastic
clapboard walls, for instance.
My first air brush was a cheap external mix, single action from an
auto parts surplus store ($10, I think). I still use an old diaphram
compressor that I got from an old house painter who was retiring.
My main airbrush now is a Badger Anthem (155) that I picked up at
Micheals (with a 40% off coupon from their flyer), but I still use the
old one for weathering, and often use paint brushes.
Hmm. lots of opinions, but no firm answer to your question. Oh well, I
tried.
Fred Dabney
> Hmm. lots of opinions, but no firm answer to your question. Oh
well, I
> tried.
Life is like that.
I have my preferences which aren't the same as other people's.
I'm left handed which dictates many of my actions, but others
are based on psychological quirks as much as anything.
I enjoy wiring, I enjoy building, I enjoy many if not most of
the things that go with being a model railroader of my
generation. I enjoy buying tools too, as well as using
them.
Yes, I remember what it was like to be a beginner,
to look at the work of my betters and wondering if
I'd ever get that good.
In fact I have, many times over but to be honest that's
because the present standards are so much higher
now than they were in the early fifties. Stuff out of a box
far surpasses most of what was once regarded as
"museum quality" craftsmanship.
And I really don't want to return to painting models
with a "Flit Gun" as I used to do...
Fred D.
Mark Mathu
> I'd really like to hear opinions of people that can remember being a
> beginning modeler. Did you start with brushes? Do you wish you had gone
> right to the airbrush?
As a teenager, I only had brushes and Testors spray cans. I wished i had an
airbrush, but it was way out of the budget.
I got back in the hobby in my middle age, and like you, budgeting the money (I
think I spent around $250) for an airbrush setup was not a big issue, so I got
a single-action Testors Aztek A320 brush kit and a Badger 180-1 diaphragm
compressor.
My understanding is that the single action brush is easier to learn to
control, though not as versatile as a dual-action brush. The Aztek was nice
because it is easy to clean -- but each brand has its own features. (Thanks,
Mike Sosalla & the folks at Dreamers Hobbies (r.i.p.) for all your advice when
I was making the decision). I can always upgrade to a dual-action when I feel
limited by my brush, although I haven't had the urge yet.
I used cans of compressed air for about six months until I got a bit of a feel
for the airbrush before I started shopping for a compressor. I liked the
diaphragm compressor because it is quiet -- I do most of my modeling wok at
night when the family has gone to bed and noise was a big issue. Some people
like the big compressors from Sears -- one nice thing about a dedicated hobby
compressor is that I can carry it to the layout our outside in one hand!
As far as safety, I've been sticking to acrylic paints as opposed to lacquer
paints. Things will only go more that way in the future. My hobby shop
recommended that, as long as I was developing my technique from scratch, it
would be best to learn how to use acrylics from the start. I'm sure a paint
booth will be a purchase some time in the future (to keep the paint dust out
of the back room in the basement) but so far I've been working without one
just fine. It's not like I'm running a heavy-duty painting factory down
there.
I've had no regerets about the purchase. Sure, the brushes still see their
share of use -- on details and some weathering techniques -- but when a paint
job is more suitable for an airbrush it's nice to have one around.
--
Mark
The Green Bay Route: http://www.greenbayroute.com/
"I started out with nothing and I still have most of it."
Kennedy
Ha! Another opportunity to extoll the virtues of the "black prime
drybrush" method of painting structures!
The idea behind this is that you don't necessarily get those
pristine-looking buildings that you almost never find out there in real
life. Plus, being sloppy doesn't hurt you, in fact, the sloppier the
better, as many buildings next to railroad tracks are dirty anyway.
Especially if you're modelling the steam era.
Anyway, this technique is totally brush-on. Start by spraying the building
pieces (or the entire basic structure) with black auto primer. Then, slop
on white paint in big, irregular blotches. Doesn't have to cover
everything. Then, drybrush on the basic color; say brick for brick, or
some shade of light gray for weathered wood. The idea here is that the
white will make the base color lighter, while the black will be of a darker
shade. You can then drybrush on a different shade for variety. For brick,
you can pick out individual bricks here and there to represent those that
have been discolored.
At this point, the black primer will mainly be in the grooves, where dirt
naturally gathers. Finish the model per personal preference (detail doors
and window frames; I do doors the same way as the rest of the building,
unless I want a newer looking door).
You can do a building in about 2-3hrs. And, if it looks too sloppy, you
can either repaint it, or just touch up various areas to tone down the
"sloppiness".
When I was painting 15mm castings for wargaming, I can do 5-6 buildings all
at once, since drybrushing will dry faster, and by the time you get through
the other 5 buildings, the first building will be dry.
:D
Kennedy
--
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
Usenet Newsgroup Service
Kennedy
> On Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:57:26 GMT, "Glen Oberhauser" <gl...@attbi.com>
> shared this with the world:
>
> >Howdy,
> >
>
> >Can you get a good result using brushes on plastic?
>
> Sure. If you use a brush of above average quality. (no 10 for a buck
> brushes)
I spent $2.95 for a big brush used to slop on the white blotches when doing
my "black prime drybrush" technique. For the other steps, I use a $6
Windsor Newton red sable brush. Been using that brush for about 7-8 years.
> I still use brushes for some things. They work pretty well on plastic
> clapboard walls, for instance.
>
> My first air brush was a cheap external mix, single action from an
> auto parts surplus store ($10, I think). I still use an old diaphram
> compressor that I got from an old house painter who was retiring.
>
> My main airbrush now is a Badger Anthem (155) that I picked up at
> Micheals (with a 40% off coupon from their flyer), but I still use the
> old one for weathering, and often use paint brushes.
I still have my Badger 350 and an oilless piston compressor I got 15 years
ago when I was painting micro armor. It's good for spraying base coats on
stuff, but detail work needed a 10/0 brush. A buddy has a Badger 100 or
150, and he can paint camo patterns on 1/285 scale tanks with it.
Mark Z.
> can probably budget the $250 or so to get the brush and compressor, but
> should I? I suppose I really need to spend more than that on things like
> safety equipment.
>
> I'd really like to hear opinions of people that can remember being a
> beginning modeler. Did you start with brushes? Do you wish you had gone
> right to the airbrush?
>
> Thanks,
> Glen
Hi Glen,
Brush painting with QUALITY brushes will work fine on structures. You
might want ˝" and ź" wide "FLATS" for broad surfaces and a
couple/few detail "ROUNDS." Flow the paint on, smooth it out, don't
over brush or brush too hard. Lay all parts flat after painting so
the paint settles into a smooth finish. You might want to thin the
paint a wee bit if it seems too thick.
As a hint, once your model is completely assembled and painted, you
can tone it down and make it more realistic looking by applying a WASH
of India Ink and Isopropyl alcohol. One teaspoon to one pint of 70%
alcohol is a good mix and one recommended by Dave Frary and George
Sellios, both well-known modelers (George actually uses 1 TABLEspoon
of India Ink in a pint of alcohol). You can also use 3-4 drops of
black shoe dye in an ounce of alcohol or a wash of your black modeling
paint in its own thinner - ratio of approx. 6 parts thinner to 1 part
paint.
I don't know any modelers who brush paint diesel shells but I am sure
there are some. The irregular surfaces on diesel shells don't lend
themselves well to brush painting. Paint applied with a brush will
tend to pool in the recesses and obscure detail. However, I know
there are airplane modelers who brush paint their models. But
airplanes being airplanes and having to be aerodynamic, most of the
surfaces are smooth or near smooth and brush painting a smooth surface
is not a problem, it's the nooks and crannies that present problems
for brush painting.
In any case, if you are looking to purchase artist brushes or
eventually an airbrush, the best prices I have found are at Dixie Art
Supplies in New Orleans, LA as I have noted here before:
And if your order amounts to $45 or more, shipping is free. If and
when you get around to purchasing an airbrush, I recommend the Badger
200 single action, internal mix as an excellent "starter" airbrush.
It is easy to use, easy to clean and reliable. The Badger 200 Deluxe
Set is currently priced at $45 from Dixie:
http://www.dixieart.com/BadgCraft.html
Keep your brushes clean!
Mark
JCunington
>the inside walls anyway so that when you put lighting in the structures,
>the light won't show through the wall.
I've always painted the inside flat black first, then the final color. I've had
light leak through a color-only paint job.
Also, if you want a cheap diaphragm compressor, check American Science &
Surplus in Milwaukee. They had (may have) models that externally are identical
to stuff I've seen advertised at up to $200. I paid $39.50 for mine. Works
great.
Jay
Trainman
JCunington <jcuni...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020815012009...@mb-fg.aol.com...
They have stores in other cities too.
I got mine from the same store, a "Thomas Vacuum Pump" which is identical to
one sold some years ago under the Badger name (their 1/12hp one), without
the guard over the fan.
I don't think I even paid that much, as I recall, mine was under 20 bucks
(but it was also about 15 years ago).
René
I only partly agree starting with a simple, single action airbrush. All my
friends who started using an airbrush, mastered it pretty quick. So, I think
it's wise to buy a good airbrush from the start if you plan using it for a
long time. An airbrush is also very usefull for weathering techniques on
your roling stock but also on scenery.
I've used many different airbrushes but one of my favorite is still Paashe's
VL double action airbrush. It looks a bit clumsy but it works very nice and
the spare parts are cheap. It can be used for larger areas but also for very
fine detailing work.
Succes,
René.
http://www.geocities.com/vietnammodeling
ROBNATGEO
Hi. I'm Bob from Milwaukee.
I buy DPM model buildings and brush paint them with Polly Scale water based
paints. For larger areas I use a brush between 1/4 and 3/8" wide.Make sure that
you wash all of the pieces in a mild detergent and scrub gentley using a soft
brush(I use a soft toothbrush) before you paint. This removes the mold
release. Be careful around any window or door openings so that you don't get
paint on those details. I use two light coats on the brick buildings. after
the paint is almost totally dry, I take the same paint brush, after it's
cleaned, and dip it into warm water and then lightly go over the paint again.
this blends the paint. I use Pactra Dover Pure Red Sable number 5/0 or 10/0 to
paint the fine details like the window sills, sashes, and mullins. Make sure
that you thin the paint a little with distilled water.
As far as air brushes are concerned, I have two; A badger 200 internal mix
single action, and a Bager Anthem internal mix dual action. I'm going to sell
the Anthem because I don't use it much. I'm not a graphic artist so i dont
need the dual action to paint RR cars. The 200 is great. You just turn a
little knob to adjust the amount of paint. It's a lot simpler to clean also.
For an air supply, I have an older 10# CO2 tank with a dual regulator. You
might try going to a Beer or Soft drink distributor to see if they have an
older one that they could sell to you. Badger makes an adapter that allow you
to connect their brushes. I use the heaver braided airhose that Badger makes.
I use Badger ModelFlex paints, and to get a good finish you have to shoot the
paint at around 30-32 PSI. A thinner plastic hose won't hold the pressure as
well. Solvent paints are shot at about 15-17 PSI. I use the ModelFlex Paints
because they're non toxic and I dont have the money to buy a spray booth and
ventelation system. They also clean up really well with cool water and soap, or
the MadelFlex cleaner that Badger makes. I've had really good luck with these
paints for my air brushing. I've never tried the ModelFlex for brush
painting, but I imagine that they would work well.
If I can be of any further help, please e-mail me at
Robn...@aol.com
Bob Freer
Mark Mathu
> Hi. I'm Bob from Milwaukee.
Hi Bob, I'm Mark from Milwaukee.
> I use Badger ModelFlex paints, and to get a good finish you have to
> shoot the paint at around 30-32 PSI. A thinner plastic hose won't hold
> the pressure as well. Solvent paints are shot at about 15-17 PSI. I
> use the ModelFlex Paints because they're non toxic and I dont have the
> money to buy a spray booth and ventelation system. They also clean up
> really well with cool water and soap, or the MadelFlex cleaner that
> Badger makes. I've had really good luck with these paints for my air
> brushing.
I primarily use Badger ModelFlex paints too, for many of the same
reasons. I typically spray at 22-25 psi. [It's interesting to note
that when Model Railroader magazine reviewed Modelflex paint in the
June 1996 issue they used a Badger 200 brush at 15 psi pressure, half
of the pressure you are using.]
I've found that Windex window cleaner is a good cleaning agent for my
Aztek A320 airbrush - I fill a paint cup with Windex and run it
through the brush, starting and stopping the brush a few times to keep
the parts moving. Then I disassemble the needle and scrub it with an
old toothbrush dipped in Windex.
Trainman
While I usually only spray solvent based paint, (I brush Ceramcoat acrylic
on everything!) I have been told that acrylics will work better at the
higher pressure, as much as 30 PSI. You also need to thin it properly,
there's special "airbrush medium" for acrylics that works better than water.
Also, a good cleaning agent is isopropal alcohol. A pint of 91% from
Walgreens is not all that more expensive than windex, and it's a lot more
concentrated. (I suspect that there's alcohol IN windex that does some of
the cleaning)
Don
--
don.de...@prodigy.net
http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
moderator: WisMode...@yahoogroups.com
moderator: MRP...@yahoogroups.com
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/MRPics
Mark Mathu <ma...@mathu.com> wrote in message
news:73ea38cd.02081...@posting.google.com...
Fred Block
> As far as air brushes are concerned, I have two; A badger 200 internal mix
> single action, and a Bager Anthem internal mix dual action. I'm going to
sell
> the Anthem because I don't use it much. I'm not a graphic artist so i
dont
> need the dual action to paint RR cars. The 200 is great. You just turn a
> little knob to adjust the amount of paint. It's a lot simpler to clean
also.
So is there a real "need" for a double-action airbrush for MRR's? I can only
imagine that for blending areas (like an area that will be modeled as water)
that one would benefit with a double-action. But - how about weathering?
There was an article recently in MRR mag. A steam loco. was weathered and I
don't remember which airbruch/type was used. The model I remember looked
awesome after the painting was done.
So if it comes down to a single action, the next question is internal mix or
external. Are there any pros/cons to either?
Thanks for any input (anyone). I just want to make an informed purchase.
-- Fred