PAINT MIX ATSF MINERA
jack.h...@support.com
Bill Daniels <bdan...@rtd.com>, discussing the Subject: Re: Paint Mix ATSF
Mineral Br said: "Hundreds of cars (or so it N> seemed), many of C&NW, and no
two were the same shade!"
True. SFMO painting guide points this out. But some paint manufacturers do not
manufacture traditional boxcar red and tuscan red so it is not clear how to
approximate the mineral brown.
Bill Daniels
paint called "ATSF Mineral Brown", which unfortunately varies
(drastically) from batch to batch. (This is also true for many other of
Floquil's pigments...)
--
Bill Daniels
Tucson, AZ
Fredric W. Dabney
: Bill Daniels <bdan...@rtd.com>, discussing the Subject: Re: Paint Mix ATSF
: Mineral Br said: "Hundreds of cars (or so it N> seemed), many of C&NW, and no
: two were the same shade!"
: True. SFMO painting guide points this out. But some paint manufacturers do not
: manufacture traditional boxcar red and tuscan red so it is not clear how to
: approximate the mineral brown.
True- and you just opened a whole new can of paint- or worms! Hardly any
two makers sell you the same color for any given name, although some
colors are better standardized than others and some makers are truer than
others. But "Boxcar Red" and "Tuscan Red" in the model paints have always
been sort of a vague waving of hands, mumbling and shuffling of feet while
trying to distract you with color charts with names that seem to slide off
the page as they show them to you. Let's not even consider how easily one
can match a factory painted car with a commercial paint- some can be done,
others involve Satanic Ritual at midnight at the nearest rail crossing,
sacrifice of small kits and whatnot just to get a black that is the same
in the bottle as on the car. Oh! Did I mention the effect that viewing
the model under different brands, types, ages and even voltages of lamps
will have? Ah. Perhaps I shouldn't. Also, In my case, one eye perceives
with a noticible yellow shift (about CC05Y) compared to the other, which
gets worse if I'm tired.
These are more of the reasons I don't expend a lot of effore trying to
get a "match" between a prototype and the "correct" shade on a model.
Some roads may have a very tight color control, and certainly one can
often establish the proper color as used by the builder at the plant, but
even that isn't always guaranteed.
If seven brands of paint have a "Santa Fe Mineral Red" and none of them
match, they are probably all correct at some time, some place, on some
piece of equipment in some state of weathering, aging and viewing
conditions.
I suspect the person who made the mistake of asking has by now moved on
to model ships. I won't presume to suggest that Battleship Gray never
changes but at least you know where you are with it.
Fred D.
Fredric W. Dabney
: jack.h...@support.com wrote:
: >
: >Bill Daniels <bdan...@rtd.com>, discussing the Subject: Re: Paint Mix ATSF
: >Mineral Br said: "Hundreds of cars (or so it N> seemed), many of C&NW, and no
: >two were the same shade!"
: >
: >True. SFMO painting guide points this out. But some paint manufacturers do not
: >manufacture traditional boxcar red and tuscan red so it is not clear how to
: >approximate the mineral brown.
: This is even a problem with paints such as Floquil, who actually sells a
: (drastically) from batch to batch. (This is also true for many other of
: Floquil's pigments...)
In TV broadcasting, there is an acronym "NTSC". It stands for "National
Tevevision Standards Committee" but broadcast engineers say it really
stands for "Never Twice Same Color", at least the color video signal.
I have called Floquil "NTSC paint" for years. The same bottle can change
color from job to job depending on how well you stir it before using it.
I should have added that to my previous diatribe...
Fred D.
Dave Nelson
|> Tevevision Standards Committee" but broadcast engineers say it really
|> stands for "Never Twice Same Color", at least the color video signal.
|>
|> I have called Floquil "NTSC paint" for years. The same bottle can change
|> color from job to job depending on how well you stir it before using it.
|> I should have added that to my previous diatribe...
Whatever. All things considered, you get far more choices of brown
from Floquil than any other brands - probably more than any other 2
brands combined. Whether you like it or not depends of what you value.
As for actually putting them to use, use your eyes on the color, not the
label and mix/blend/spray/overspray for unique shades. There are only
a few tips to keep in mind: nobody used Tuscan on freight cars (tho
weathering may make it look that way), it's easier to start light
and shade in dark than the other way around and ATSF Mineral Brown has
less red/red-orange in than you'd see in the "average" boxcar paint scheme.
Dave Nelson
___________________________________________________________
Hewlett Packard email: da...@corp.hp.com
ICBD fax: (415) 852-8312
1501 Page Mill Rd. phone: (415) 857-2902
Palo Alto CA. 94304
___________________________________________________________
Tim O'Connor
> The reasons I don't much like Floquil have little to do with such
> matters- it's just that I have never been comfortable with it.
I have a love-hate relationship with Floquil ... which is improving
with experience. One factor is that many articles give you mixes for
Floquil paints. Whadda ya gonna do? Over time I have learned always
to make sure the paint is thinned, has some retarder in it, and lately
I always add some Crystal Coat to help smooth the finish. I finally
learned to use a medium tip with light pressure (10-12lbs) and make
sure, above all else, that the paint goes on wet. Floquil is so fine
that you can lay down an opaque layer that is too thin. The paint in
this condition will look coarse (very flat). Putting on more paint
will usually smooth it out...
[ Sidebar: painting my own models has made me aware of how poor most
"factory" paint jobs are -- they're smooth and glossy because the
paint is so thick! Yuk. ]
For super-fine weathering, though, it's hard to beat Floquil. I have
a dozen ready made mixes of rusty, oily, grimy colors on hand, and
they're a pleasure to use.
One more thing, when I have a multicolor scheme that requires masking,
I use some other paint like Scalecoat etc. Floquil takes -FOREVER- to
dry out. :^(
Side question: Why can't Floquil sell a "ready to airbrush" paint?
Why do we all have to add stupid ingredients to get a decent mix?