Modeling a river
Brebarg
Any suggestions for modeling water? I've read the Model Railroader
article using gloss medium over a painted black surface, but it just
doesn't look that good. Also, how does one feather the shore into the
"deeper water"? Is this done while the black paint is still wet?
Thanks,
Brent Bargfrede
bre...@aol.com
Dave Landis
bre...@aol.com (Brebarg) wrote:
>Any suggestions for modeling water? I've read the Model Railroader
>article using gloss medium over a painted black surface, but it just
>doesn't look that good. Also, how does one feather the shore into the
>"deeper water"? Is this done while the black paint is still wet?
Dave Frary's book on modeling and scenery covers various "mediums"
rather well... short of getting his book (Kalmbach) I can say that I'v
eused the gloss medium successfully. I start with whatever "ground"
color I have overall and paint the stream bed...then progressivly darker
colors with green-to-black or blue to black (depending on the type
river's/streams you're modeling in your area... I have points of land
with deep undercuts and backwash areas, shallow "sandbars" on off-current
bends, etc. all an illusion created with varying shades of dark and
light...
The Gloss medium is some type of artist "varnish" and does an excellent
job! One tip...don't use it in hot, humid weather...my one area didn't
come out very nice under those conditions...same bottle came out great
with less humidity/heat in the air!
William Jackson
Brebarg (bre...@aol.com) wrote:
: Any suggestions for modeling water? I've read the Model Railroader
: article using gloss medium over a painted black surface, but it just
: doesn't look that good. Also, how does one feather the shore into the
: "deeper water"? Is this done while the black paint is still wet?
: Thanks,
:
: Brent Bargfrede
: bre...@aol.com
Here's what I did, and this is my first experience. First I formed my
river bed, and got a good water-tight form. Then I poured hydrocal, mixed
1:1 with water...very thin. Let it dry untouched for several days, and
ran a light sandpaper over it. Then I painted the riverbed, gradually
feathering the brown of the bank into the dark green of the middle of the
river. Let this dry a few days. Then I poured on a coat of EnviroTex, a
hard high gloss bar finish. Let it dry a day or two, and the results are
spectacular. Literally everyone who sees it thinks it is real water. I am
very satisfied with it.
--
==============================================================
| Bill Jackson "Attitude is everything!" |
| wjja...@ucdavis.edu |
==============================================================
bu...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
In article <4pqkd4$2...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, bre...@aol.com (Brebarg) writes:
> Any suggestions for modeling water? I've read the Model Railroader
> article using gloss medium over a painted black surface, but it just
> doesn't look that good. Also, how does one feather the shore into the
> "deeper water"? Is this done while the black paint is still wet?
If you want clear water (which is not often found around most
railroads) you need to model the bottom of the particular body of water. You
will then need to apply (depending on the depth) several layers of casting
resin. There is also a product which has been discussed on this news group
which I believe is called Instant Water. The posts mentioned some problems with
leveling--particularlly around the edges.
You will need to tint the resin, because of reflections from the sky
(blue) or a variety of man made or non-man made mater which clouds the water.
If you want to study how water looks from above, observe lakes, rivers, ponds,
etc. when you are landing on a plane. Take some photos. The clearest water I
have seen is around the Virgin Islands, and that appeared to have color from
above. Modeled clear non tinted water which I have observed on layouts doesn't
seem real, IMHO. Some clear mountain streams and lakes with light tint can be
spectacular.
I have had such good luck with the method which you discuss in brief
that I have decided to stick with it for my particular purposes. It provides
good results at reasonable cost (both time and money).
To give you an idea of how to use the technique, let me explain a
current application to my K SF & P.
1. Cut the subroadbedd to fit a 27" scratch built bridge on the mainline.
2. Cut a piece of Masonite to fit below the bridge in order to model a
midwestern river.
3. Painted the Masonite black. Used three layers of black paint. Masonite
really soaks up paint. Used flat black house paint. Could have used another
type of paint--for example flat black from spray cans.
4. Used brush strokes to simulate water topograhy.
5. Used water soluable paint (for latex) to blend in the shallow sides. Started
blending while the paint was wet. Used a color that is close to the ground
next to the river and close to the shallow water color. Used an airbrush to
blend in the sides.
6. Installed bridge abutmants and blended ground scenery down to the water in a
manner close to what was observed and wanted to model.
7. Touched up paint as needed.
8. Put on four layers of gloss medium. Tinted the first and third layer
like the overall color of the river.
9. Textured the final layer of gloss medium to represent the topograhy of a
river--current, whirl pools, waves, etc.
10. Blended in wet areas beside the water with the last coat.
In the future, another layer of gloss medium will be used to refresh
the scenery.
Many who visted my previous layout, thought that there was a real
channel below the gloss meduim. The black produces a good illusion of depth.
This approach is a good technique which works well for midwestern rivers,
creeks, and ponds, because you can not see the bottom. For clear mountain
streams and lakes, modeling the bottom and using resin might be a preferred
approach.
You can experiment with this on a piece of Masonite at very little
cost. Let us know how your project turns out. It can be fun to model water.
Jim Budde
K SF & P RR
Chris Fletcher
Not trying to be funny, but have you considered using....water?
Obviously there are many more don'ts than do's, and it won't work
for many applications, but I have seen "real" water used to great
effect on several layouts.
The main don'ts are of course: don't use it where a loco might
derail and land in it; and don't use it where it could get into
the electrics.
The trouble with a river, as opposed to a lake, is that it needs
somewhere to go from and to. You could add pumps, water wheels,
floating barges etc. I don't recommend fish, though.
Cheers
Chris Fletcher
Scotland
Boone Morrison
In article <1996Jun17.1...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>,
bu...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu wrote:
> In article <4pqkd4$2...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, bre...@aol.com (Brebarg)
writes:
> > Any suggestions for modeling water? I've read the Model Railroader
> > article using gloss medium over a painted black surface, but it just
> > doesn't look that good. Also, how does one feather the shore into the
> > "deeper water"? Is this done while the black paint is still wet?
>
> > Brent Bargfrede
>
Re modeling water: Jim Budde has beautifully explained a method which has
worked very well for me also. I have added one touch: I made up a small
batch of normal viscosity Hydrocal and dropped it carefully onto a sheet
of glass to form "water worn" stones. Each drop forms a rounded "half
stone" that can be cemented in place on your river bed, usually after the
first coat of gloss medium. I have stained the stones in a wash of
alcohol and ink. I have used the second coat of gloss to affix these
stones and it works great.
Boone Morrison
bu...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
In article <4qce0u$4c2$1...@mhadg.production.compuserve.com>, Chris Fletcher <1016...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
> Not trying to be funny, but have you considered using....water?
> Chris Fletchenever seen an indoor layout which uses real water, but I have
read about several problems which are in additon to the one Chris mentioned
I have never seen a layout which uses real water, but I have read abo
read about several problems. The first is that you must be able to seal the
about electrical shorts. The first is that you must build your lake or river
bed so that it does not leak. The second is that you can have some of the
same problems maintaing water on your layout as you do when maintaining a
swimming pool--a good bit of effort to refresh the water.
For a garden railroad, who would have anything else.
bu...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
In article <4qce0u$4c2$1...@mhadg.production.compuserve.com>, Chris Fletcher <1016...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
> Not trying to be funny, but have you considered using....water?
> Cheers
> Chris Fletchenever
I have never seen an indoor layout which uses real water, but I have
read about several problems which are in additon to the one Chris mentioned.
The first problem is that you must be able to seal the bottom or your lake or
Dan Lyke
In article <4qce0u$4c2$1...@mhadg.production.compuserve.com>,
1016...@CompuServe.COM says...
>Not trying to be funny, but have you considered using....water?
We recently had a thread on this on the N-scale mailing list. Several people
there mentioned that there have been quite a few layouts (mainly larger scales)
which have used real water successfully. Conclusions:
You're probably better off with a resin and a very thin water film over it, as
this both minimizes splashing and gives your water a more scale feel; real
water will have larger waves than are right for the scale.
From personal experience, I've built an indoor fountain and had tremendous
problems gett
ing the splashdown places work so that I didn't soak the room within 10 feet of
the fountain (and this was not a big project). Beware of big drops.
Water treatment isn't as much of an issue as you might think. You aren't
dealing with that much water to begin with, if it starts to turn bad just ditch
it and refill. Also, with my fountain at least, because I don't have the usual
outdoor exposure to all those living growing things my water tends to evaporate
long before it tries to grow anything.
Dan