Norfolk Southern Observation
David Ryujiro Olsen
On 2 Mar 1998, Jcpross wrote:
> I keep hearing that Norfolk Southern is considered one of the five "big boys"
> in railroad systems. If that is true, why does Atlas & Kato seem to ignore
> them so often when producing new models?
John,
So far a lot of the models Atlas and Kato have been doing are
earlier diesels, as you mentioned, but they did do a few NS prototypes.
Atlas put out the C30-7, which is a very nice model, in my opinion - I
have one in NS paint. Looks great. Kato did the GP35 you were looking
for in another post, and recently the Dash-9, which is also very nice, if
you can still find one for a reasonable price. It has some detail
difference from the real NS units, but you might not be too concerned
about that. It runs beautifully. I think Athearn is planning to paint
their version of a later production Dash 9-44CW for NS (they did their
earlier production model in NS, before they released their BNSF model,
which has the newer radiator grill arrangement). This is a closer match
for the unit NS ordered. I'll let Andy Harman cover the specifics if you
need more info.
> This trend of theirs seems to also include production of modern locomotives
> that all of the big five seem to own such as the GP50, GP60, SD60, SD70 etc.
> and also the basic switchers such as the SW1500.
I'm not quite sure what you mean here, but Kato has only offered the
GP50 in N scale, and neither Kato or Atlas have done any of the others in
HO or N. Athearn is probably the best source of modern diesels like
these in HO. They offer the GP50, GP60, and SW1500, and are planning to
do the SD60 and SD70 in their premium Genesis line, which should be as
nice as Kato (fingers crossed). They have the GP60 in NS and NS Operation
Lifesaver, and the SW1500 in NS. They have already announced the NS SD70
as part of their first run of Genesis SD70/75 models. You might want to
reserve on at your dealer's. It should be a great model.
> I look at the type of engines being made and it seems to me that they all seem
> to be 50's/60's vintage equipment. Am I the only one that feels this way?
> Mabe I have missed something by living in a rather small town in Tennessee
> where hobby shops are almost non existant.
I think this is the trend of manufacturers trying to catch up with
the production of the real thing. Most model railroaders are part of that
older age bracket (no offense guys), and they often prefer models of the
locos they grew up with. The greater demand for 50's/60's equipment
pushes some companies towards these models. But some manufacturers seem
to specialize in certain eras - they carve a nitch for themselves and
stick with it. Athearn has been producing modern models recently. Atlas
seems to stick to General Electric diesels and ALCos. Kato is kind of all
over the place - they fill in some gaps. Stewart is famous for doing a
model of nearly every F-unit ever made. But more modern equipment is
showing up every day, if you can hang on.
Dave Olsen
Jcpross
I keep hearing that Norfolk Southern is considered one of the five "big boys"
in railroad systems. If that is true, why does Atlas & Kato seem to ignore
them so often when producing new models?
This trend of theirs seems to also include production of modern locomotives
that all of the big five seem to own such as the GP50, GP60, SD60, SD70 etc.
and also the basic switchers such as the SW1500.
I look at the type of engines being made and it seems to me that they all seem
to be 50's/60's vintage equipment. Am I the only one that feels this way?
Mabe I have missed something by living in a rather small town in Tennessee
where hobby shops are almost non existant.
Well, here is my two cents worth for the week. I look forward to seeing what
others think about what I have said.
Happy Rails,
John
jcp...@aol.com
(HO) NS: Green Valley Division
David Outen
[message edited]
Jcpross <jcp...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19980302035...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
> I keep hearing that Norfolk Southern is considered one of the five "big
boys"
> in railroad systems. If that is true, why does Atlas & Kato seem to
ignore
> them so often when producing new models?
I'm confident that impulse buying represents a decent chunk of the mode
railroading market. The white on black NS scheme is just not something
that jumps out and says buy me. The warbonnet and armour yellow schemes
on the other hand tend to catch the eye. That's my theory and I sticking
to it unless somebody finds fault with it :-)
Dave
john a dalton
"David Outen" <Zdou...@ibm.net> wrote:
>I'm confident that impulse buying represents a decent chunk of the mode
>railroading market. The white on black NS scheme is just not something
>that jumps out and says buy me. The warbonnet and armour yellow schemes
>on the other hand tend to catch the eye. That's my theory and I sticking
>to it unless somebody finds fault with it :-)
> Dave
...Dave...darned good point...that's something nobody's brought up on
here that i can remember...i tend to buy those items that catch my
eye...the new Atlas GP7 in Central of Georgia colors is one...
...i think maybe the maker is hoping we'll turn a blind eye to the
prototypical accuracy and buy on colors instead...that's ok, although
there's a lot of modelers here on the newsgroup that disagree with the
maker's motives...for them it's a business...
...Proto 2000 seems to be coming real close to the bullseye,
though...i noticed in their latest ad in MR that they place a
tremedous importance on feedback form the average modeler...they even
mention it 3 times in the same ad...
...i like "shell oil yellow" tank cars, too... :))
...big john...
Jcpross
In article <34fa36ad...@news.mindspring.com>, jape...@mindspring.com
(john a dalton) writes:
>>I'm confident that impulse buying represents a decent chunk of the
>mode
>railroading market. The white on black NS scheme is just not
>something
>that jumps out and says buy me. The warbonnet and armour yellow
>schemes
>on the other hand tend to catch the eye. That's my theory and I
>sticking
>to it unless somebody finds fault with it :-)
Actually, I never gave it much thought but what you say makes since. I just
find it frustrating that one of the big five is somewhat ignored when it comes
time to produce another model. Black and White might not be eye-catching but
it is a scheme that is represented by numerous locos throughout the US.
Regards,
John
Phillip L. Bostian
john a dalton wrote:
> "David Outen" <Zdou...@ibm.net> wrote:
>
> >I'm confident that impulse buying represents a decent chunk of the mode
> >railroading market. The white on black NS scheme is just not something
> >that jumps out and says buy me. The warbonnet and armour yellow schemes
> >on the other hand tend to catch the eye. That's my theory and I sticking
> >to it unless somebody finds fault with it :-)
> > Dave
>
> ...Dave...darned good point...that's something nobody's brought up on
> here that i can remember...i tend to buy those items that catch my
> eye...the new Atlas GP7 in Central of Georgia colors is one...
You guys are right on this one. It is interesting to note that when CSX was
formed, they reached back into their predecessors' corporate history and came
up with the blue, gray, (and now) yellow scheme reminiscent of the B&O with the
C&O yellow. NS reached back and pulled out N&W black (and only black). Notice
how their locomotives are decorated in a carbon copy manner with the last
scheme of the N&W? The only difference is the name itself and the "speed"
lettering. The tuxedo is gone as well as Southern green and N&W blue and
tuscan.
The C of G scheme represents a time when railroads had some pride. Woefully,
that is gone now.
Phil
David Ryujiro Olsen
On 2 Mar 1998, Jcpross wrote:
> (john a dalton) writes:
>
> > I'm confident that impulse buying represents a decent chunk of the
> >mode railroading market. The white on black NS scheme is just not
> >something that jumps out and says buy me. The warbonnet and armour
> >yellow schemes on the other hand tend to catch the eye. That's my
> >theory and I sticking to it unless somebody finds fault with it :-)
>
> Actually, I never gave it much thought but what you say makes since. I just
> find it frustrating that one of the big five is somewhat ignored when it comes
> time to produce another model. Black and White might not be eye-catching but
> it is a scheme that is represented by numerous locos throughout the US.
I might be wierd and in the minority, but I actually find the simple
black and white scheme pretty appealing. I think it looks powerful and
kind of clean and straightforward. I had to get one of the Atlas NS
C30-7s as soon as I saw it. I model CSX, and plan to have a fair number
of NS units to use on run-through trains.
Dave Olsen
Andy Harman
On 2 Mar 1998 03:52:58 GMT, jcp...@aol.com (Jcpross) wrote:
>I keep hearing that Norfolk Southern is considered one of the five "big boys"
>in railroad systems. If that is true, why does Atlas & Kato seem to ignore
>them so often when producing new models?
Kato has done NS lettering on every model it would be appropriate for,
although they waited till the second run on the Dash 9's to get around
to it. These include the low-nose GP35's which were in service on the
NS until the mid-1980's, and the GP35's, Dash 9's, and C30-7's in N
scale. The other Kato locos operated by NS, such as SD40's and
SD45's, were not owned in low nose except a single SD45 which Kato
chose not to offer (1728) but they did have one custom painted on
their display in Madison.
>I look at the type of engines being made and it seems to me that they all seem
>to be 50's/60's vintage equipment. Am I the only one that feels this way?
>Mabe I have missed something by living in a rather small town in Tennessee
>where hobby shops are almost non existant.
Different manufacturers have adopted certain niches over time, and
many have switched roles. Atlas' new offerings for instance have
leaned toward 2nd generation GE; Athearn toward 90's GE and EMD,
Stewart to classic F-units but branching out into Alcos and Baldwins
now, and Proto 2000 to classic 1st and early 2nd generation stuff.
Kato has been all over the place, and has just jumped back about 40
years from the Dash 9 (90's) to the SD45 (60's) to the late 40's
(RS2). There is more 90's equipment available now, in the late 90's,
than there was in equivalent decade stuff in the 1988, 1978, etc... so
manufacturers are slowly catching up. The Dash 9 and AC4400's from
Athearn are some of the few plastic models ever to be introduced while
the prototype was still in production!
The demand for diesels seems to cross all kinds of lines. I'm of the
opinion of Ed Ryan, who once said, "I never met a diesel I didn't
like".
Andy
Visit the Prototype Modelers Group Web Page at http://w3.one.net/~aharman/index.html
Sorry I must resort to anti-spam practice, reply to aharman at one (spelled out) dot net
stev knowles
In article <34fb0498....@news.one.net>, aha...@one.nowayjose.net says...
>Kato has done NS lettering on every model it would be appropriate for,
>although they waited till the second run on the Dash 9's to get around
>to it. These include the low-nose GP35's which were in service on the
lest we forget, the wide nose dash-9's had not been ordered (or was it
delivered?) to NS before either Athearn or Kato published their lists. Athearn
added the NS one later, as did kato.
>NS until the mid-1980's, and the GP35's, Dash 9's, and C30-7's in N
>scale. The other Kato locos operated by NS, such as SD40's and
>SD45's, were not owned in low nose except a single SD45 which Kato
>chose not to offer (1728) but they did have one custom painted on
>their display in Madison.
since kato seems to be interested in offering more than one number, it makes
sense that they didnt include it.
>manufacturers are slowly catching up. The Dash 9 and AC4400's from
>Athearn are some of the few plastic models ever to be introduced while
>the prototype was still in production!
dont forget the P40 and P42's, they are really well done, possibly better than
the AC4400's . . . .
--
stev knowles
st...@Precision.Guesswork.Com
http://www.guesswork.com
Precision Guesswork, Inc.
Ken MacIntosh
Well David, if you are in the market for a circus wagon, then the NS white
on black color scheme won't do, I'm sure. But if you want a locomotive that
looks like a locomotive, then NS can't be beat. The outline and color of the
NS scheme exudes power; those babies are made for hauling coal and they look
it! Ken MacIntosh, Seattle.
Nathan Alan Beauheim
Matthew J. Frahm wrote:
>
> stev knowles <st...@precision.guesswork.com> wrote:
<snip>
> > delivered?) to NS before either Athearn or Kato published their lists. Athearn
> > added the NS one later, as did kato.
>
> error. And the Kato is even less accurate, as far as phase goes.
Of course, the difference (not to beat a dead horse) between someone
like Kato or Athearn and someone like E&C Shops, is that both the Kato
and Athearn models are correct for their respective prototypes. (Kato's
is a CNW through and through even down to the lack of the AC, while
Athearn's is SP) If E&C or Walthers made a C44-9W, it wouldn't be
correct for anyone.
<snip>
> I must agree. The detail on the P40 is great!
Now if I could just get some decent Superliner's to go behind it, I'd
buy a couple. I know I'm asking too much and that I'm a rivet counting
protonazi, but I've never seen a bowed prototype Superliner, and I don't
want my models to be bowed.
>
> --
> Matthew J. Frahm____________________________mailto:mfrahm(at)visi.com
> Stillwater, Minnesota / Winona, Minnesota http://www.visi.com/~mfrahm/
> Dakota, Minnesota & Eastern Railroad editor, CTC Board Magazine
> MP 0.0, DM&E's Waseca Subdivision MP 308.6, CP's River Subdivision
--
Nathan Beauheim
ASM Troop 140
Middleton WI
beauheim@cae!@#$%^&*.wisc.edu (remove the !@#$%^&*)
Remember: A Scout is Hungry.
Nathan Beauheim
beauheim@cae!@#$%^&*.wisc.edu (remove the !@#$%^&*)
Jeremy & Soni Helms
NS is a big boy but it is different enough to make the units so different
from what is offered. Take for instance the C40-9W. It's closest match in
the model world is the Athearn BNSF style one. You would have to take this
one and purchase a none gullwing cab AND install a headlight above the
windshield which is a tough add on. The other reason they are sort of
ignored would be the high short hoods on their units. If you model NS in
HO your closest friend in the hobby would have to be Cannon & Company to
give the units any realism. I do like NS myself but do a lot of kitbashing
to get the units just so.
Jeremy
Jcpross <jcp...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19980302035...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
> I keep hearing that Norfolk Southern is considered one of the five "big
boys"
> in railroad systems. If that is true, why does Atlas & Kato seem to
ignore
> them so often when producing new models?
>
> This trend of theirs seems to also include production of modern
locomotives
> that all of the big five seem to own such as the GP50, GP60, SD60, SD70
etc.
> and also the basic switchers such as the SW1500.
>
> I look at the type of engines being made and it seems to me that they all
seem
> to be 50's/60's vintage equipment. Am I the only one that feels this
way?
> Mabe I have missed something by living in a rather small town in
Tennessee
> where hobby shops are almost non existant.
>
KB2BDB
jcp...@aol.com (Jcpross) writes:
> Black and White might not be eye-catching but
>it is a scheme that is represented by numerous locos throughout the US.
>
>
Great observation! When's the last time you saw anyone come out with a Penn
Central engine? Vital to me, since my free-lanced pike interchanges with the
PC.
Scott Marriam
John Sheridan
Matthew J. Frahm wrote:
>
>
> If only brass Superliners were cheap...
>
A friend of mine just recieved 2 of the new Overland Viewliners.
Suffice to say...........they were stunning.
--
John Sheridan @ Microscale Decals
http://www.microscale.com
Please remove *NOSPAM when replying by E-Mail
Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! http://www.cauce.org
John Sheridan
KB2BDB wrote:
>
> jcp...@aol.com (Jcpross) writes:
> >
> Great observation! When's the last time you saw anyone come out with a Penn
> Central engine? Vital to me, since my free-lanced pike interchanges with the
> PC.
Atlas U-33C was done in Penn Central.
They even did a Guilford U-36C!!!
stev knowles
In article <SP5L.127$U75.3...@ptah.visi.com>, mfr...@tiny.DeleteThis.net
says...
>If only brass Superliners were cheap...
a guy in the HUB division module group has a brass superliner train. those
things *squeal* as they go down the straight track. i would imainge you might
be able to fix it, but it might be easier to replace the trucks with
trainstation products ones. but for the cost, you woudl expect them to run
better, huh?
Dale Burns
In the area where I live and grew up, Norfolk Southern has a very rich
history. What started as the Central of Georgia, then change to Southern,
is now Norfolk Southern's main line from Columbus, GA to Birmingham, AL.
The black and white is paint scheme is absolutly great. We also have a CSX
main line close by but for me the NS scheme is ultimate.
David Ryujiro Olsen <dr...@acpub.duke.edu> wrote in article
<Pine.SOL.3.91.98030...@godzilla5.acpub.duke.edu>...
> On 2 Mar 1998, Jcpross wrote:
>
> > (john a dalton) writes:
> >
> > > I'm confident that impulse buying represents a decent chunk of the
> > >mode railroading market. The white on black NS scheme is just not
> > >something that jumps out and says buy me. The warbonnet and armour
> > >yellow schemes on the other hand tend to catch the eye. That's my
> > >theory and I sticking to it unless somebody finds fault with it :-)
> >
> > Actually, I never gave it much thought but what you say makes since. I
just
> > find it frustrating that one of the big five is somewhat ignored when
it comes
> > time to produce another model. Black and White might not be
eye-catching but
> > it is a scheme that is represented by numerous locos throughout the US.
>
Kevin L. Wagner
> > > >The white on black NS scheme is just not
> > > >something that jumps out and says buy me.
I wouldn't say that NS's paint scheme isn't appealing. I love the look of
the big black locomotives heading up a long string of freight cars. It
gives them a mightier appearance.
Kevin
john a dalton
...that's why i like my Atlas U36C in Clinchfield black...hooked to
120 loaded black quad hoppers...now THAT'S a mighty nice sight !!!...
...i'm getting me one of those 4-8-8-4 Rivarossi's in Clinchfield
black next month...one of the new, improved ones that Andy Harman
talked about...get a string of 34-footers behind that and hot dog !!!
...they pulled mixed loads, too, so we could have each hopper a
different road...and TWO cabooses !!...both red...cabooses should
always be red, like firetrucks...
...big john... :))
...ps...in las vegas, the fire trucks are yellow...old boy from
mississippi was out there and got stopped for not obeying the fire
engine...he told the judge, "i hain't stopping for no yaller far
truck"...true story... :))
stev knowles
In article <VDrL.197$Fp5.6...@ptah.visi.com>, mfr...@tiny.DeleteThis.net
says...
>Yup. I bet they look pretty darn good, though.
at first glance they look awesome, you are correct, as they go by, though, the
crystal clear "glass" allows you to see that there are no interiors. the ConCor
cars, for all their problems, dont have this as being as noticeable.
for what brass passenger cars cost, i think that they shoudl come with some
kind of interiors . ..
Phillip L. Bostian
Dale Burns wrote:
> In the area where I live and grew up, Norfolk Southern has a very rich
> history. What started as the Central of Georgia, then change to Southern,
> is now Norfolk Southern's main line from Columbus, GA to Birmingham, AL.
> The black and white is paint scheme is absolutly great. We also have a CSX
> main line close by but for me the NS scheme is ultimate.
>
This is such an interesting comment I just had to reply.
Here in NC, I live very near the Washington, DC Atlanta mainline of the old
Southern Railway. I miss the Green, White, and Gold Diesels of my youth and the
Black, White, and Gold Diesels of my young adulthood. I detest the NS speed
lettering since it is nothing more than a stylized version of the last NW
scheme. In fact, many of the diesels of the former NW lasted longer in the NW
paint scheme than their cousins on the Southern since this paint scheme would
"blend in" with the NS scheme. My fellow railfans and I feel that the NW now
runs the NS and this is why you have such a paint scheme and some of the
operating procedures used such as using former road power for switching the
yards. The N&W used older articulated power, the NS uses SD40-2s and GP50s.
For the life of me, I cannot understand how painting a locomotive totally black
and slapping on some white lettering can be the ultimate, not when you can have
the blue, gray and yellow of the CSX borrowed from the B&O and C&O. It sounds
to me like this was the easiest and cheapest thing to do. NS could have drawn
on the black/white/gold or green/white/gold of the Southern or the tuscan or
Wabash blue of the N&W. Instead they chose black. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Phil Bostian
john a dalton
"Phillip L. Bostian" <pbo...@ibm.net> wrote:
>This is such an interesting comment I just had to reply.
>
>Here in NC, I live very near the Washington, DC Atlanta mainline of the old
>Southern Railway. I miss the Green, White, and Gold Diesels of my youth and the
>Black, White, and Gold Diesels of my young adulthood.
>Phil Bostian
...Phil...i'm with you here on this observation...the wonderment and
excitement that i had as a child seeing the beautiful Southern green
and cream and gold come gliding in to the station at Bristol was just
about the ultimate for a 10-yr old...and those shiny new cars with
people going places...they looked so happy..."where they all goin',
pop ?", i asked my grandad (43 yrs on the Southern)..."it's war
business, son"...and it remained "war business" as far as he was
concerned, up to his final days...and that huge N&W tuscan and black
streamlined affair with all the older coaches with names to
remember...oh the fun we had just WATCHING !!!...
...the memories are fading...big john... :))
Dave Bott
> Dale Burns wrote:
>
> > In the area where I live and grew up, Norfolk Southern has a very rich
> > history. What started as the Central of Georgia, then change to Southern,
> > is now Norfolk Southern's main line from Columbus, GA to Birmingham, AL.
> > The black and white is paint scheme is absolutly great. We also have a CSX
> > main line close by but for me the NS scheme is ultimate.
> >
>
> This is such an interesting comment I just had to reply.
>
> Here in NC, I live very near the Washington, DC Atlanta mainline of the old
> Southern Railway. I miss the Green, White, and Gold Diesels of my youth
and the
> Black, White, and Gold Diesels of my young adulthood. I detest the NS speed
> lettering since it is nothing more than a stylized version of the last NW
> scheme. In fact, many of the diesels of the former NW lasted longer in the NW
> paint scheme than their cousins on the Southern since this paint scheme would
> "blend in" with the NS scheme. My fellow railfans and I feel that the NW now
> runs the NS and this is why you have such a paint scheme and some of the
> operating procedures used such as using former road power for switching the
> yards. The N&W used older articulated power, the NS uses SD40-2s and GP50s.
In Yanosey's Tidewater Triangle Book, he shows that the N&W also used old
road diesels to drill the coal storage yards at Norfolk. They combined
all the old Baldwin (or was it FM?) power from their own lines and the
short lines they acquired to work them to death in one place.
> For the life of me, I cannot understand how painting a locomotive
totally black
> and slapping on some white lettering can be the ultimate, not when you
can have
> the blue, gray and yellow of the CSX borrowed from the B&O and C&O. It sounds
> to me like this was the easiest and cheapest thing to do. NS could have drawn
> on the black/white/gold or green/white/gold of the Southern or the tuscan or
> Wabash blue of the N&W. Instead they chose black. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
>
> Phil Bostian
I would like to see a white stripe at least (gold optional) on the black.
You have to admit that black is a good financial move. They don't have to
impress passengers any more with looks anymore, and I'm sure most freight
customers are more impressed with shipping times and service than with
colorful locomotives. They have a different constituency today.
What I really want is for NS to have passenger service again. Then you'd
see the colors too...and you'd get to see them up close more easily and
often!
Oh well. At least you still live in former SR country. I hope to get
back some day.
DAve
--
Dave Bott
President and majority stockholder,
Virginia Blue Ridge & Southern Railway
(a 1/87 scale enterprise)
also, Empire Deluxe PBEM Keeper of the List
Fan of the Baltimore Orioles and the Virginia Tech Hokies
Clarence Bell
>
>> For the life of me, I cannot understand how painting a locomotive
>totally black
>> and slapping on some white lettering can be the ultimate, not when you
>can have
>> the blue, gray and yellow of the CSX borrowed from the B&O and C&O. It
sounds
>> to me like this was the easiest and cheapest thing to do. NS could have
drawn
>> on the black/white/gold or green/white/gold of the Southern or the tuscan
or
>> Wabash blue of the N&W. Instead they chose black. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
>>
>> Phil Bostian
>
Considering I model both CSX and NS, I'd just like to plug this in. Your
basic Tuxedo is black and white. True it's not that stylish (but many
designers try), but it certainly displays a certain amount of "class". I
often thought NS paint scheme was drab, drab, drab, but lately, I've begun
to look at the scheme as "your basic tux". IMHO
Standing by for flames - " class " in a newsgroup? =:-O
Reonartt
this is a rally great string and there are a couple things i wanna say in
response, and i'm not going to fool with the cutting and pasting mess and
instead dive in.
first- as a fan of the N&W i really enjoy the black locos. After all, steam
was, for the most part, black. i figure this was for maintenance reasons. but
as with the cab in front or back dilema the N&W had, i suppose they stuck it
out with the tried and true.. and just kept on keepin' on with those vast vats
of black paint they without a doubt had. and as mentioned before, BLACK locos
look more powerful than these flower-child ones with these colors dripping off.
there must be some rule that if you paint your loco black you get and extra
hundred or so horse power. In fact i childishly resent Santa Fe and their
warbonnet scheme-- if anything it's very vain and just begs people to look. it
reminds me of those old movies with the hero, all dirty and not too well
dressed, sees a cutsie guy with extravagant threads getting in his place on the
dance floor...and of course, the hero smashes his face in...
second- do railroads (like Santa Fe) say, "gee, if we paint ourselves up like
this, alot of those model railraoder guys model us over the plainer
companies??"
if they do they're pretty successful.
willi
when i see colorfully painted trains, they seem to giggle, black ones roar.
Clarence Bell
I do agree with the earlier post which implied the most important asthetic
quality of locomotives was their reliability to the company's customers. I
do believe pride must be nurtured in employees of the railroad. Too often
companies forget about the human side of ______________ business (fill in
the blank with any company) and focuses on the bottom line. They forget
people are the intangible element holding the bottom line. With all that
said, Paint schemes are probably very important for marketing and morale.
Don't forget the huge amount of money NS must have paid for the television
ads "The Thoroughbred". NS probably could have aquired few new locomotives
for the price they paid for the ad campaign. Again employee morale and
customer confidence rolled into one advertisment.
On the CSX paint scheme issue, If you take the above into account, you can
see the impact on customers and employees. Merge the colors = merging the
railroads. If I remember correctly C&O aquired B&O but didn't change paint
because of concern of customer loyalty.
If it was only a bottom line issue, how much money could be saved and
reinvested if railroads stopped painting the "F"s to indicate the front of
desiels. Think customers care which way the locomotives are oriented.
Hummm. FWIW.
Reonartt wrote in message <19980306231...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
James D Thompson
Dave Bott wrote:
> In Yanosey's Tidewater Triangle Book, he shows that the N&W also used
> old road diesels to drill the coal storage yards at Norfolk. They
> combined all the old Baldwin (or was it FM?) power from their own
> lines and the short lines they acquired to work them to death in one
> place.
It was FM. All secondhand, by the way. After the FMs were gone, N&W
did the same thing with Alco power until it wore out. Now it's the
EMD's turn, but they're actually holding up.
David Thompson
Clarence Bell
Jcpross wrote in message <19980307034...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
>In article <6dpqce$j...@examiner.concentric.net>, "Clarence Bell"
><cbe...@concentric.net> writes:
>
>>Considering I model both CSX and NS, I'd just like to plug this in. Your
>>basic Tuxedo is black and white. True it's not that stylish (but many
>>designers try), but it certainly displays a certain amount of "class". I
>>often thought NS paint scheme was drab, drab, drab, but lately, I've begun
>>to look at the scheme as "your basic tux". IMHO
>
>I never thought of that...I like it. NS should add a bow-tie to the nose
of te
>engines. LOL
>
>John
>jcp...@aol.com
>(HO) Norfolk Southern: Green Valley Division
Offered the previous on a Friday night:
Yup, they could add the bow-tie, but I'd like to see an engine in a fresh
coat of paint! ouch, that hurt really bad.
Jcpross
TJ
Let us not forget the yellow accents on the front/rear grab rails and
step faces; looks like a bow-tie to me.
TJ on the FEC
john a dalton
jcp...@aol.com (Jcpross) wrote:
>In article <6dpqce$j...@examiner.concentric.net>, "Clarence Bell"
><cbe...@concentric.net> writes:
>
>>Considering I model both CSX and NS, I'd just like to plug this in. Your
>>basic Tuxedo is black and white. True it's not that stylish (but many
>>designers try), but it certainly displays a certain amount of "class". I
>>often thought NS paint scheme was drab, drab, drab, but lately, I've begun
>>to look at the scheme as "your basic tux". IMHO
>
>I never thought of that...I like it. NS should add a bow-tie to the nose of te
>engines. LOL
>
>John
>jcp...@aol.com
...the way to do this is to get the wife of the president of the
railroad involved in it...remember Lady Bird Johnson and her campaign
to beautify America ?...never underestimate the power of a woman to
get something redecorated right...a few suggestions here and
there...point out the "classic good looks and up-to-date styling
features of the competition"...perhaps an email write-in campaign...an
appeal to vanity...
...big john... :))
Kevin L. Wagner
> For the life of me, I cannot understand how painting a locomotive
totally black
> and slapping on some white lettering can be the ultimate, not when you
can have
> the blue, gray and yellow of the CSX borrowed from the B&O and C&O. It sounds
> to me like this was the easiest and cheapest thing to do. NS could have drawn
> on the black/white/gold or green/white/gold of the Southern or the tuscan or
> Wabash blue of the N&W. Instead they chose black. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
>
Just thought of a possibility. Maybe they chose all black so that the
paint wouldn't show the dirt/exhaust stains/etc. as much? Also, the N&W
had all black engines, too.
johnsatki
Kevin L. Wagner wrote:
> Just thought of a possibility. Maybe they chose all black so that the
> paint wouldn't show the dirt/exhaust stains/etc. as much? Also, the N&W
> had all black engines, too.
Except that NS habitually keep their equipment in good condition
[certainly cosmetically] .
FlynYankee
><BR>
>...the way to do this is to get the wife of the president of the<BR>
>railroad involved in it...remember Lady Bird Johnson and her campaign<BR>
OH NO!!!!!!!
That's been done!!! The Black/white/orange New Haven scheme and the B&M
"Bluebird" scheme both were "suggested" by the infamous Patrick B. McGuiness's
wife. And we all know what happened to those two roads:))
David
Dan Peluso
Eastern railroading, in general, just seems more straightforward and
railroad-like. You can look to the original B&O, NYC, Penn, C&O even Penn
Central and Conrail. Where Chessie fits into that theory, I don't know.
Also, sometimes just plain initials can be exciting. BLE, P&LE for example.
How many of us find it hard to explain to others (who are not into railroads
and think they look like just a bunch of letters), how interesting these
cars are. Nothing against Western railroads is meant by any of this.
Dan Peluso
CraigMN2
Western Railroads are quickly being gobble up until we are at the
state of Having Two Major Railroads UP BNSF (Green and Orange late of the
Great Northern , Now thats interesting) a Hand full of Regional lines and a
smattering of Shortlines.
Of course railroading is just so much BIGGER than those lacy ribbons of steel
that decorate the east.
;o)
Craig Nolan
President
Sierra Valley RR
(HO Scale)