Thanks
Heather
Whoever it was that told you to use beadboard... don't ask them for any
more advice! They're wrong!
Yes, you can use the "dense foam", assuming that it's a pink or blue
extruded foam board. It's ideal for model railroading applications. Easy
to cut, strong, dimensionally stable. I haven't noticed any odor with a
hot wire. Use a "Shurform" scraper to shape it, and "lightweight
spackling" to make fills and smooth sharp corners. Paint with acrylic
and /or latex paints.
You don't really want to use beadboard!
The dense foam aka insulation foam is the right stuff.
Yes, it gives off fumes when cut with hot wire tools. Do this with lots
of ventilation and you probably also want to use a mask as well. It is
better (although 'messy') to just cut the foam (with a bread knife or a
small hand saw) and shape it with a Sure-Form tool (looks like a block
plane, but with a cheese grater type blade). The cutting and Sure-Form
tool method creates lots of little bits -- you'll want to fire up the
shopvac after doing this for awhile.
">
">
"> Thanks
">
"> Heather
">
">
\/
Robert Heller ||InterNet: hel...@deepsoft.com
http://www.deepsoft.com/ ||FidoNet: 1:321/153
http://www.deepsoft.com/~heller /\
You don't want polystyrene beadboard - too crumbly; look for extruded
polystyrene. The "dense foam" might be that (EPS), or it might be
polyurethane. I'm nost sure if the rigid PU would emit any worse fumes
under hot wire cutting than the EPS, but I wouldn't do that to either
without really good ventilation and a mask that;s good against organic
vapors.
http://www.favonius.com/soaring/foams/foams.htm
--
Steve
Here's another reason you DON'T want to use the white 'beadboard':
http://www.scaletree.com/foamsafety.html
"Paul - The CB&Q Guy"
Modeling 1960's In HO.
Great link there. Good to know somebody actually tested the
supposed hazards of extruded foam. Not too surprising the
bead board burned so quick - remember the Life Like foam
cooler warehouse fire?
Cutting styrene foam with a hot wire releases styrene fumes.
MSDS for styrene:
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/s6986.htm
Doesn't look too hazardous to me. The more serious effects
listed are for extreme and repeated (occupational) exposure
without proper precautions. For comparison, check the
MSDS for ethanol (grain alcohol, commonly sold in 50%
solution in clear glass bottles with Russian words on them.)
Open some windows; get fresh air if you get a headache,
avoid working in a surfboard factory when pregnant or
nursing, and don't worry too much!
Cordially yours:
Gerard P.
Let me add that you should be sure the available foam IS polystyrene
foam.
'Styrofoam', 'Certi Foam', and 'Foamula R' are some brands.
Polyurethane
foam's vapors are more harmful, and may include isocyanates, which you
can apparently become sensitized to at rather low exposure levels.
MSDS for polyurethane foam:
http://www.foamex.com/technical/MSDSFlexiblePolyurethaneFoamRevised.pdf
California state information for isocyanates (surprisingly thorough):
http://www.dhs.ca.gov/ohb/HESIS/iso.htm
Note that, unfortunately, the important part is missing, which is the
expected
AMOUNT of isocyanates in the vapors from foam-cutting...oh well.
Cordially yours:
Gerard P.
Amaco's is pink ) and is an extruded polystyrene. Pre Expanded
polystyrene is also known as beadboard because as you break it, it
breaks into foam beads that float around. The drink cups are NOT
Styrofoam, nor are the ice chests or coolers. Those are pre-expanded
polystyrene.
I*'ve seen some people say that the true styrofoam is not rigid enough
in 2" thicknesses. They might want to try Styrofoam HL-40 / HL-60 or HL
120 ( if I remember the numbers right) Normal Blue Styrofoam SM (
smooth material) or SE ( square edge ) has a nominal density wehere the
HL series are designed for insulation cold storage wearhouse floors and
are a much greater density.
Find a cold storange warehouse under construction and talk to the
contractor. They will be happy to give you a pick up load of scraps for
free. It's costs them to send it to the dump because of EPA. Buy the
foreman a case of beer and he'll send one of the guys to loas the truck
for you.
> Here's another reason you DON'T want to use the white 'beadboard':
>
> http://www.scaletree.com/foamsafety.html
I nominate that page for the Useful Content Award of the week.
What a concept: actually testing materials under actual conditions, and
posting the empirical results. And concisely and entertainingly, to boot.
--
The only reason corrupt Republicans rule the roost in Washington
is because the corrupt Democrats can't muster any viable opposition.
>Yes, it gives off fumes when cut with hot wire tools. Do this with lots
>of ventilation and you probably also want to use a mask as well. It is
>better (although 'messy') to just cut the foam (with a bread knife or a
>small hand saw) and shape it with a Sure-Form tool (looks like a block
>plane, but with a cheese grater type blade). The cutting and Sure-Form
>tool method creates lots of little bits -- you'll want to fire up the
>shopvac after doing this for awhile.
>"> Thanks
>">
>"> Heather
An electric carving knife also works real well for shaping foam
terrain. Leaves a very smooth suface and very little mess.
Ken
D> On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:03:27 +0100, Robert Heller
D> <hel...@deepsoft.com> wrote:
D>
D> >Yes, it gives off fumes when cut with hot wire tools. Do this with lots
D> >of ventilation and you probably also want to use a mask as well. It is
D> >better (although 'messy') to just cut the foam (with a bread knife or a
D> >small hand saw) and shape it with a Sure-Form tool (looks like a block
D> >plane, but with a cheese grater type blade). The cutting and Sure-Form
D> >tool method creates lots of little bits -- you'll want to fire up the
D> >shopvac after doing this for awhile.
D> >"> Thanks
D> >">
D> >"> Heather
D> An electric carving knife also works real well for shaping foam
D> terrain. Leaves a very smooth suface and very little mess.
The 'mess' comes with the Shure-Form tool, which is handy for carving
smooth, rounded contours, such as mountain sides or hills.
D>
D> Ken
D> > \/
D> >Robert Heller ||InterNet: hel...@deepsoft.com
D> >http://www.deepsoft.com/ ||FidoNet: 1:321/153
D> >http://www.deepsoft.com/~heller /\
D> >
D> >
D> >
D> >
D> >
D> >
D> >
D>
D>
> DanniFannyFan <kd1...@aol.com>,
> In a message on Sat, 21 Jan 2006 05:20:55 GMT, wrote :
>
> D> On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:03:27 +0100, Robert Heller
> D> <hel...@deepsoft.com> wrote:
> D>
> D> >Yes, it gives off fumes when cut with hot wire tools. Do this with lots
> D> >of ventilation and you probably also want to use a mask as well. It is
> D> >better (although 'messy') to just cut the foam (with a bread knife or a
> D> >small hand saw) and shape it with a Sure-Form tool (looks like a block
> D> >plane, but with a cheese grater type blade). The cutting and Sure-Form
> D> >tool method creates lots of little bits -- you'll want to fire up the
> D> >shopvac after doing this for awhile.
> D> >"> Thanks
> D> >">
> D> >"> Heather
> D> An electric carving knife also works real well for shaping foam
> D> terrain. Leaves a very smooth suface and very little mess.
>
> The 'mess' comes with the Shure-Form tool, which is handy for carving
> smooth, rounded contours, such as mountain sides or hills.
One tiny tiny nit: the tool is called a "Surform"
(http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?TYPE=CATEGORY&CATEGORY=SURFORM+TOOLS+AND+BLADES),
not a "Shure-Form" or "SureForm". For some reason, almost everyone seems
to misspell it.
Maybe people pronounce it "sure-form". I say "sir-form", because I think
the mfr based the name on SURface FORmer.
But it is a little nit. (Are there any other kind?)
> One tiny tiny nit: the tool is called a "Surform", not a "Shure-Form" or
> "SureForm". For some reason, almost everyone seems to misspell it.
Hey, it's the nucular age! Look at the folks who don't know the difference
between lose and loose!
--
Steve
Or their, there or they're. Or your and you're. Or whose and who's. Or
buy and by. Or rein and reign (and maybe even rain!)
Sheesh, I'm even seeing these kinds of fuckups in the
newspaper--regularly. Nation of idiots.
>Steve Caple spake thus:
>
>> On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 11:04:31 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>
>>> One tiny tiny nit: the tool is called a "Surform", not a
>>> "Shure-Form" or "SureForm". For some reason, almost everyone seems
>>> to misspell it.
>>
>> Hey, it's the nucular age! Look at the folks who don't know the difference
>> between lose and loose!
>
>Or their, there or they're. Or your and you're. Or whose and who's. Or
>buy and by. Or rein and reign (and maybe even rain!)
>
>Sheesh, I'm even seeing these kinds of fuckups in the
>newspaper--regularly. Nation of idiots.
Or rather instead of whether , hear or here , sell or sale. It really
earitaits me. I can take misspelling okay , kaus aoccdrnig to a
rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't
mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny
iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the
rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll
raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos
not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
Ken
> Sheesh, I'm even seeing these kinds of fuckups in the
> newspaper--regularly. Nation of idiots.
Same here. But ours goes even further. It reprints stuff when it runs
out of filler. Once even in two different sections on the same day.
And just last week they reprinted 3 letters to the editor that were
originally printed two days before.
As someone whose father once owned a small town weekly paper, and who
grew up in a town with a great newspaper (Louisville Courier-Journal),
it really pisses me off.
But I'm afraid most newspapers are dying off and being replaced by sound
bites on TV.
--
It's turtles, all the way down
Actually, the list of the 10 most often misspelled words has hardly
change in over 100 years. They're all homophones (same sound, different
spelling, as opposed to homographs, same spelling, different sounds).
Three of them are in your list. :-)
>
>Actually, the list of the 10 most often misspelled words has hardly
>change in over 100 years. They're all homophones (same sound, different
>spelling, as opposed to homographs, same spelling, different sounds).
>
>Three of them are in your list. :-)
Sure, the 10 most often may well remain the same but the frequency of
the misspelling may still be greatly increased. The frequent usage of
'apostrophy s' to make plurals seems to be relatively new.
Keith
Ah, yes, the famous "greengrocer's apostrophe"[1]. Linguistically, this
is a phenomonon known as "overcompensation", where folks who are
uncertain about where to use apostrophes just put them in everywhere
there's an "s" at the end of a word.
Simple rule here: don't use apostrophes to make plurals.
Oh, and another thing: overcapitalization. People capitalize words as if
they were writing German (where every noun is capitalized).
All this is part of what I call "AOL-speak".
[1] see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greengrocer%27s_apostrophe#Greengrocers.27_apostrophe
> Ah, yes, the famous "greengrocer's apostrophe"[1]. Linguistically, this
> is a phenomonon known as "overcompensation", where folks who are
> uncertain about where to use apostrophes just put them in everywhere
> there's an "s" at the end of a word.
Actually, it's called hypercorrection (see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercorrection). Explains a lot of other
common grammatical errors, like "I bought it for you and I".
I blame it on the spell-check mentality. Newsflash: It doesn't replace
proofreading.
And I've heard that looser-boys like lose women.
> Sure, the 10 most often may well remain the same but the frequency of
> the misspelling may still be greatly increased. The frequent usage of
> 'apostrophy s' to make plurals seems to be relatively new.
> Keith
I guess a lot of kids were absent that day in first grade.
The belief that you can teach a concept once and it will "take" with
everybody in the class is wrong. It takes repeated teaching/learning to
"fix" a concept, especially one as confused and messy as the Use Of The
Apostrophe In English.
The apostrophe is an ambiguous sign. First, it signals the omission of
one or more letters, which makes it a spelling sign. Second, it signals
case and number, but the sound of singular and plural possessives is
almost always the same, and posessives of course sound like plurals.
Third, the apostrophe is an inconsistent sign. There is no possessive
apostrophe for pronouns, which contradicts the use for nouns and names.
Finally, there is the problem of phrasal nouns (such as mother-in-law),
which more and more people are treating as compound nouns (ie as
motherinlaw). How you apprehend such nouns determines where you put the
apostrophe (and where you put the plural 's', too.)
A footnote: let's ignore tradenames and trademarks, which ignore all rules.
With such a farrago of ambguity and inconsistency, the amazing thing is
that most people do use the apostrophe correctly most of the time, and a
sizeable minority use it correctly all the time. Unfortunately, that
rarely includes sign writers and menu composers. :-)
HTH, and that's the last of the OT nit-picking in this thread, I hope. :-)
But Polish (my primary language) is no picnic either. :-)
I'm not even sure why I'm posting in such an OT thread.
Peteski
> A footnote: let's ignore tradenames and trademarks, which ignore all rules.
Or, even worse, pop and rap (collectively known as CRAP) groups that use
diacritical marks because somebody must think they look cool - e.g.
[minus the marks] Ton Loc.
--
Steve
> I'm not even sure why I'm posting in such an OT thread.
Thread Drift R Us
> Dew knot trussed yore spill chequer too fined awl thee missed aches.
You must have read that story, "Ladle Rat Rotten Hut".
>> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>
>> I blame it on the spell-check mentality. Newsflash: It doesn't
>> replace proofreading.
No, I did not write that. Attribution got screwed up somewhere up above.
Grtz Jan
Their mistakes are certainly the most obvious ones...